I find this channel of utmost importance for five reasons : - First, it is completely independent and unbiased. - It reviews particular watches and general particularities of the watches and the brands that many of us don't know of. - It provides useful technicalities to amateur enthusiasts like me without presumptuous views, which is appropriate to most of the viewers which aren't watchmakers. - It gives very realistic views of the Market and its evolution with very frequent upgrades. - Last but not least all of this info is wrapped with excellent sense of humor, rationality and leaving space for the watchers to jump into their own conclusions. Congratulations Mike for this breath of fresh air you give us in a hobby full of certainties in which regards to the claims of many of your counterparts. Cheers
Having lived in Japan, I understand how significant Grand Seiko is. It is a true reflection of Japanese culture and understated elegamce. I adore their watches.
I have a Rolex submariner (no date) and I just can’t stop staring at the dial. The simplicity mesmerizes me. I don’t care what anyone thinks about it, I just absolutely love having it on my wrist, even at home alone.
Just my personal opinion, but I think the Speedmaster's history with space exploration and NASA is richer than the history of diving, racing, and (debatable) Mt. Everest climbing history of Rolex.
There is No climbing history with Rolex, the watches both climbers were wearing were Smiths, a Rolex may have been taken by some of the team, but it was never an official thing Rolex even admitted lying about it and apologised at the time, Rolex have tried to attach themselves to any significant event, as they are a marketing company who make watches not the other way around
I am a dial lover, and to me the dial is what draws you into the watch like an attractive woman across the room. From this perspective I absolutely love my Grand Seiko Shunbun/Spring Equinox model with its cherry blossom dial. On the surface, if you have not seen the handiwork that goes into each Grand Seiko watch and its dials, then you cannot begin to appreciate the artisanship that goes into each Grand Seiko. The good news is that Hodinkee recently toured the Grand Seiko factory and wrote an in-depth article with many pictures that will amaze you. You may then ask yourself how does GS put this much handiwork into each model and not charge Patek Philippe prices? Each brand makes about 50-60,000 watches per year.
For me, that Speedmaster just looks awesome and because I am a track coach, I love the whole old school analog aspect of timing things (things that don’t require pinpoint accuracy).
Concur with all, yet I think you were a smidge too tough on Grand Seiko. On styling, bracelets, etc., I agree, but on value for money I think they excel. If you like the styling, I just don’t see anything Swiss that comes close for the price. Just my $.02. Nice video on a useful question.
Yes I agree. The analogy about Grand Seiko being similar to classical music or opera is off as well. Those would be Patek or Vacheron Constantin. Grand Seiko is more like aficionados of Prog.
I sold my Submariner and got a SeaQ and an Omega Seamaster 300 Trilogy 60th anniversary for the money and the two bring me way more joy. Good vid, Mike.
SeaQ. Sorry, but I am drooling. My Vostok Komradiirski is ready to be replaced with something complimentary to my Tag Carrera 16. I'm considering: Muhle Blackmotion Muhle Seebattalion Doxa Zodiac Sinn U1, U2, GX Mido Rado Omega Argh! In the category of diver, there is so much to chose from!
I saw the first ten seconds: felt the fire and got myself popcorn to enjoy this. Banger choice of topic and video Mike. Loved the audacity and the respectful restraint. Need a part two 💯🥳
I love my 'unfinished' watch collection, as it gives me so many options. But it's quite basic really... - Grand Seiko Snowflake Spring Drive - Grand Seiko Tentagraph 5Hz Chronograph - Omega Speedmaster Moonphase - Omega Seamaster 300 Chronograph - Rolex GMT Master 2 "Rootbeer" - Rolex Submariner "No Date" - Cartier Santos ADLC - Cartier Santos Tank Large - Casio G-Shock MRG-B5000B "1983 Retro Square" - Casio G-Shock MRG-B2000B - A.Lange & Söhne 1815 Up/Down Rose Gold
Yeah, i don't get why is he repeatedly referenced in this channel. He's loud and impulsive, just the opposite of this channel. Maybe that's exactly why.
Very interesting video. I recently bought a Seiko presage GMT used for 1/2 retail price. Comparing it other watches around the £5-600. You can see a difference in quality of finishing. What it has made me realise is my taste in watches has changed. About half of my collection I'm happy to sell. The PRX isn't one of them. I think it's well finished wears really well due to a thin case and the automatic movement keeps very good time. There aren't many watches in my collection that can easily be dressed up with a suit or down to smart casual wear. I don't think it's over-rated, just over-exposed.
Great video and I learned a lot! What was missing for me was the Zenith El Primero! For full disclosure, Yes I own one! Maybe another video on more iconic watches and movements.
Love your videos Mike. I think the Grand Seiko Spring Drive is amazing technology and that to me makes it very desirable. I'm to the point in my watch collecting that I'm looking for something different. That's also why I like the Rado ceramic. It's different. Just my humble opinion.
@@TheLute70 GS spring drive and Rado ceramic are two of my life goals, I wonder why I don't hear more about Rado. They're probably the two biggest advancements in watches right now
@@speedracer2please Rado are big in Asia and the Middle East. They have a unique design language, but the movements are off the shelf, which doesn't appeal to watch nerds.
Great video as always Mike - excellent comment re £4,000 and diminishing returns - I know all about personal wealth but I think an interesting and wide collection is between £500 - £7,000 for most bang for your buck and choice. I do include the secondhand market in this to get hands on Glashutte etc
@@Javic167 JLC and Omega make some of the coolest old gold dress watches I've ever seen.... the kind that look like a gold bracelet with a watch built in.... theres several on ebay and chrono 24... usually around $4-8k
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch as long as your only watch isn't a Rolex, I'd be fine if the Reverso was your only watch or even just rented for the video. lol The content is what matters and you do the best watch content in therms of insights and market analyses in the watch game.
You hit the nail on the head with the Sub. I was hands on with one today at my AD.... it sorely misses the 'wow' factor one would hope to get seeing it in person. What did stop me in my tracks? The white gold yacht master!!! You're a legend.
Your rare woman here….. Love the video. Great information. So I will continue saving for my white speedy pro…. To scratch the itch I just buy the occasional strap. Just got back from the Toronto Timepiece Show and only bought a $35 digital watch. But got to try lots!! Almost bought a Laco for an excellent price but didn’t because the 39mm had an 18mm lug space. So put it down. If it’s not exactly what I want I don’t buy it and get another strap for the ones I have. Maybe a Stowa later. What do I think is over hyped! Cartier - scratch magnets with unimpressive, lazy dials, boring movements for a lot of money. The only one I like, the Roadmaster, they discontinued. Thanks for a great video again.
13:50 "You're just paying more for a small improvement in accuracy, and if you rotate watches it's basically going to make no difference." Proper practical real-life collecting tips are rarely heard anymore.
To me the only watches you talked about that are overrated are the Nautilus (boring and insanely expensive with no justification), the Tudor Black Bay 41 (as boring as a third coat of paint and massively unsubtle) and the IWC Pilot (far too expensive for its simplistic design). I do marginally prefer the Aquanaut to the Nautilus, but still ... meh. TOO MUCH MONEY. Personally I always thought the Submariner was kinda blah until I tried one on. Now I own one. The Sub has to be the most perfect watch in terms of design, subtlety and dimensions (not to mention the astounding Rolex oyster bracelet). I put it on and it feels like it melts into my wrist. Plus it absolutely shimmers in the light, and mine is a 1996 model. I think if anything it is an underrated masterpiece. The classic 42mm Speedmaster is beautiful to me, except when I put it on my wrist. Then it looks and feels "wrong". I can't explain why I have this reaction to it, but I have yet to find a 42mm Speedy model that feels right on me. Tag Heuer watches are a little too expensive, though somewhat underrated in general. For me the real problem with Tag is finding a model that meets all my requirements among the BILLIONS of different styles and models they carry. But if you're persistent you will find one eventually. And it will make you happy. Except for the inexplicably terrible bracelets, Grand Seikos are astounding watches. I've got my three GS watches on leather straps, and they all look stunning. LOVE Grand Seiko ... especially the Spring Drive models with the power reserve on the dial. I don't know why, but that looks magical to me. The PRX is awesome for the price. It's hard to find anything comparable and with Tissot's history at a similar price level. Likewise, the Khaki Field Mechanical is a beautiful, astounding watch for the price. Just like the Tissot, you'll be hard pressed to find a similar field watch at the price with Hamilton's history and reputation. Anything made by JLC is, to me, faultless. The Reverso, the Master Control, the Polaris and the Ultra-thin models are almost too perfect for words. Don't get me wrong, they are expensive, but what you get is the horological equivalent of a perfect 5-course Italian meal or a German automobile. Workmanship, design, style and refinement. Amazing!
I can explain by Grand Seiko has those bad bracelets. I guess that contrary to ALL of the Swiss, they refuse to buy them in China, who are the real silent masters of that.
Your rare woman here….. Love the video. Great information. So I will continue saving for my white speedy pro…. To scratch the itch h I just buy the occasional strap. Just got back from the Toronto Timepiece Show and only bought a $35 digital watch. But got to try lots!! Almost bought a Laco for an excellent price but didn’t because the 39mm had an 18mm lug space. So put it down. If it’s not exactly what I want I don’t buy it and get another strap for the ones I have. Maybe a Stowa later. What do I think is over hyped! Cartier - scratch magnets with unimpressive dials, movements for a lot of money. The only one I like, the Roadmaster, they discontinued. Thanks for a great video again.
I really like where Tag Heuer is going with their new watches. More COSC certified or in-house movements, higher finishing. They know what direction they have to take.
Even their entry level Carrera's are very well finished. I have a Date 36mm, and I've received more compliments on it than any of my more expensive watches.
Interesting as always. But how could you not mention the most interesting Grand Seiko--the quartz version accurate to 10 seconds a year and surpassed generally I think only by the Citizen (5 seconds per year) or the special edition Citizen (1 second per year!). I have enjoyed so many of your reviews but personally I wish the manufacturers would produce *more* quartz watches. The bands, cases, dials, metals etc. you discuss in such detail could all house the always more accurate quartz movement which runs without winding and is easier and cheaper to replace if necessary. Personally I can see no advantage to the inferior time keeping of manual movements, although for watches such as the moon watch who would not want to preserve the winding and the history and maybe a few of the watches with chimes etc. would drain the battery too much to be useful. And shock! digital quartz combine so many of the features watch aficionados swoon over, chronographs, dual time zones (multiple for the digital), moon phases, tide ranges, multiple lap times that can be recalled, alarms any one feature of which is usually all that a mechanical watch can produce and the cheap digitals often have100M or 300M water resistance. So there :-). Any of the beauty features so swooned over with mechanical watches could house a far more accurate and useful quartz movements and none of them can touch the pragmatic features of a digital :-). I do you enjoy your presentations and analysis as things of beauty in their own right and will certainly look forward to your future thoughts and presentations but my one Rolex (GMT II) from the 1990's will probably be all that I ever buy or be tempted to buy in the mechanical world. Quartz starting with the original Seiko was truly an amazing revolution in time keeping, arguably equal to that of Harrison. Ironically the fact that it can be made cheaply now is apparently its main downfall :-).
I stumbled in this rabbit hole literally today. I have two watches, both gifted to me on special occasions, and I never really gave them that much though... until now. It's a really fascinating theme. Thank you for sharing the knowledge.
I used to think that the Tudor 79220R Heritage Black Bay was overrated. Now it’s the only luxury watch I want. These objects remain largely the same; how we see them is what differs over time.
My first Rolex was the Explorer - the basic one. And I love it for having no complications, and surprising people that it is a Rolex. Omega - for me, Planet Ocean, specifically, my 15 year old Planet Ocean. Speedmaster comments are spot on. Hamilton (Hammy!) - I only have one Hamilton, an Open Heart, but I just love the brand. But agree on Khaki Field, they all look alike to me, and going Sinn or something like that just adds some conversation to the watch. IWC - I have an Ingeneuer - I love it, no one has any idea what it is as a brand. And that makes me happy compared to the Pilot. PRX - when it first came out, loved it! Now, it is an overproduced Swatch - just go buy a Swatch. Citizen - this is a brand I'm watching right now - I have 3 Tsuyosa's, just a charming watch that simply wows and is insane for the price point. Grand Seiko - thank you... this one keeps me constantly on the fence. Every time I think about buying a Grand Seiko, I wind up going to my personal favorite (Omega). I still want a Grand Seiko... and yet, I don't. Your perspectives are always great to experience, and appreciated.
This channel continues to be my favorite one regarding watch information. It has helped me to be a better connoisseur. As an added bonus, Mike sprinkles notes and undertones of jocularity.
Mike, Thank you for this episode this keeps me open on what is out there and finding my 'own' style. Seems like everyone is wearing Rolex and OMEGA Speed and Sea masters. Oversaturated you think? Thank you for saying "you don't need to flash it" This one is Pure Knowledge and Lifelong experience on your Behalf. Furthermore, when you said " A Watch may have been around for a long time... but it's not beautiful." That' sir is so true. Man that hit home. This totally helps me in finding that "Heritage Brand if you may.. and still look great to me and maybe to my peers." Again, like the past episodes your Lifelong Knowledge and Experience truly shines in your channel. Unlike these other kids with expensive taste.. who pretty much is just Regurgitating what they Googled to shed light into what they're showing off their in their channel. I was planning on getting an IWC (08:38) Mark XIII or Mark XX as a first watch. Thank you so much for shedding light on the IWC (10:30) brand and other options with Tradition that is more credible in comparison to that IWC. Laco and Stowa do have some great looking timepieces and with reasonable prices!! Thank you Mike. Pure Wisdom.
Zaratsu is great for about a day or two and then it just looks like regular polishing. Or you have to carry around a microfibre cloth to get it all clean and shiny for another few hours lol
I find Nico entertaining, but his dislike of Grand Seiko has always been baffling to me. I'm a newer enthusiast compared to many, but the Spring Drive appears to me to be the most significant innovation in the industry in recent history (at least on the movement side) and that alone earns Grand Seiko its hype. I completely appreciate your assessment of the limited appeal of the company's restrained, utilitarian aesthetic, however. It does help explain the disconnect for many people. Fantastic video as always!
Hi Mike, Great video! IMHO and based on my experience with both brands, I think JLC is a bit overrated, especially at the entry-level, while Grand Seiko isn’t. I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but my experience with JLC just wasn’t great. The case and dial finishing was nice but definitely less “refined” than on my Grand Seiko. And when I say less refined I don’t just mean different :)
I would buy the Tag. I love the dial, color options, the octagon, the price. But I can't get over the cyclops date. Never on my many scuba dives have I wondered what date it was
Thought provoking and enjoyable, thank you. I've just bought a Casio Oceanus and the case finishing is better than my 90s Datejust, the dial and hands look superb and the (radio/bluetooth connected) quartz movement is always spot on, it is making me reconsider everything I bevieved about watches.
Another great one Mike, with interesting food for thoughts. I wish we were friend, neighbors or colleagues to have someone smart to talk about watches with. Keep it up, I am a big fan!
Mike, thank you for moving beyond clickbait and hot takes to fair discussions. There are rich rewards on your channel for listening with attention span.
I appreciate your modesty Mike but to the contrary, your opinion is worth more than most people on UA-cam. That's why we watch and appreciate your videos. Keep them coming.
Hi Mike, I especially loved your insightful comments regarding METAS. The movement is the same as it was before the certification program began, and if you rotate your watches the improvement in accuracy becomes a moot point. So simple, but no one else says these things. Brilliant!
Great content as always! Speaking of IWC movements, I read somewhere that we can’t really classify movements like mark xx as in-house since these are all manufactured by valfleurier. There is an article on this showing how similar the baumatic, one panerai and IWC movement in mark xx/ingenieur really are. Feels like Richement basically slap a different brand on it with small changes and sell it as in-house
In house movements are just a marketing scam. The Swiss industry traditionally relied on specialists like ETA, JLC, Zenith and Lemania to make movements because they were better and cheaper than anything manufactured in house. 'Rolex' in house movements have *always* been designed and manufactured by Aegler. [This company was eventually sold to Rolex in 2005.]
@@mrbrisvegas2 I agree. It justifies charging higher prices. Just look at Oris, BM and other brands in that segment charging premium way over their usual price range as soon as they put something in-house inside. Btw, when did in-house watch movements become a big deal and who started it? My guess would be rolex or omega since they both invest heavily in marketing
Fair points about "in house". My own way of thinking about it is more to the question of "how much control does the manfucturer have over the movement design and construction?" A Sellita is off the shelf. Sellita has a couple of different grades and you pick the one that suits your cost points. But once you get to Swatch or Kennisi or Richemonts watch manufacturer, they have more leeway to demand customisations, adjustments, etc. They can work closer on doing movements that conform more to their own needs. It doesn't mean that they always do that. Sometimes it is just a stock movement but that added influence and control can lead to better movements in terms of both specs and finishing 🙂
Both videos I've watched from you off my recommended list have been no bullshit, and straight to the point. Super refreshing. You earned a sub, keep it up. Edit: Also, I think video time tags would be good for a video this long, to sorta break down some of your opinions and organize them a bit better. Cheers!
I bought and wear a sub because I think it’s basically a perfect sports watch. It’s not the most interesting watch I’ve ever had, but it is one I find myself wearing the most. I’ve also never fell in love with the reverso, especially as a monoface, but I really like the master ultra thin moonphase.
At last, a respected voice making the point that "balancing a watch face onto a surface which is inherently round is hard". Maybe it's my newness to watches that means I've not heard others say this before. But this is exactly why I have always personally felt that most Cartiers are extremely poorly designed. Roman numerals are far too "blocky", but also due to their differing lengths they leave some parts of the dial overly busy, whilst leaving others full of gaps, in an unsymmetrical way. Cram all of that into a rectangular shape and it's just a total mess. Each to their own, but I've never understood how people can think the Tank or the Santos etc elegant or well designed. Funnily enough, the one Cartier reference on which I think the roman numerals work as a spectacular piece of design is the Crash - precisely because the imbalance is the whole point of that design.
Great video. Enjoyed your opinions. All Rolex's with a cyclops are overrate for me but only because they never line up with how I look at a watch. I also find many of the Datejust and Daydate dials difficult to read so as a brand, they are overrated. I can appreciate what they are and their position in the industry but that are not for me.
Another fantastic piece of content. 👏 Watches are an opportunity to convey individuality. I actually care less about what someone is wearing and am more interested in why. Some people gravitate toward form over function, some the engineering sophistication, others it’s finishing, or a story about brand or model. I totally agree that at certain price points it makes sense to start paying attention to some or all of those things more based on what is available to own. More often than not though, I like to hear more about why people made a certain choice so that I can compare it to my own criteria for how I decide to make a purchase. Ultimately people like what they like. Underrated or overrated - it’s all pretty subjective.
I just bought my 4th diver and 2nd GO watch, the SeaQ 39.5 with the non applied indices. It goes with my 14060M, SD4K and BP FF. It just has so much charm and character and not too pricey. Can’t wait to take it to Hawaii soon.
I cannot afford the VAST majority of the watches that you speak about, but somehow, you have still garnered an out-sized impact on my opinions on watches.
I admit that having the Reverso on the image made me click, but I ended up stayed for the content. You have a new subscriber. I personally chose the monoface, but that’s because it can be engraved with something special. P.S. I like the Gunpla in the background. 👍
5:48 I do agree with your opinion although the watches mentioned are substantially more expensive in my opinion, going from 700 to roughly 1000 is an extra Seiko 5 sports
Yet another very interesting and useful video😀. On the point of Metas though, if you are totally OCD about the EXACT time then IMHO it helps. I have a couple of quartz watches ( a Casio and a Citizen) and love their accuracy! I also have 2 Omega Metas watches (Aqua Terra and 3861 Speed master "moon watch". The Speedmaster in particular only gains about 1s per day. I have a COSC Christopher Ward which is good to +3s per day so I am a happy camper. I know not everyone is as OCD as me but hey ho! Gonna cost me a mint in servicing in the future!!
Another good original review.....maybe this is not the best follow up question but when you have a chance, what about Paul Picot? I'm not sure what to think about their price/quality ratio. Merci!
With the bracelet my TAG HEUER CARRERA with the 39 mm , blue dial with the date at the 06:00. The “Glass Box” is at about $7K. I have never seen a watch like this and have been quite fair in my assessment of TAG in general over many years……they were horrible, grotesque jokes. And now it is my favorite chrono. Go figure. It is a “tool watch” and as an old pilot I get them. But with Rhodium covered hands & markers and a beautiful sunburst dial…..it is truly a gorgeous watch. That was what got me and a 39mm diameter sealed the deal. Bought my 1st Heuer in 1969 so……I would totally agree that it is slightly over priced except…..I do not think the movement is a lesser movement than the IWC for example. Even if it was a marginally better movement (lateral clutch, integrated column wheel, 33 jewels , in house is the TAG motor) I don’t think it’s $4K or $5K better. I totally dig your vids Mike. Your channel is growing exponentially and that is really understandable. Thanks for another fine vid.
The whole industry is based on 80-100Y old artifacts - spitfire theme, divers = 98% of people don't know anything about it and don't practice it, flight to the moon or 007, Genta with a integrated bracelet, military field etc. Intended to go for a speedmaster than discovered its not atomatic one, rather 100Y technology?! Are there really no designers these days who can offer a new perspective? Waiting for a really new flash 🙏
Because decades ago we used to dare, all we do from a fresh perspective is seating in front of the desk.... :/ That's why we dream of those adventures.
Great video. I have to say, I tried on the Glashutte Original in a mall in Dubai and I was so disappointed in it. It felt so cheap compared to the Submariner! The bezel action is awful and gritty, even my Seiko Turtle feels better. The bracelet was terrible, WAY too thick with no taper and the clasp was poor. It just made it feel like a cheap watch. Obviously the dial and look is subjective but to me it looks super ugly. I'll admit the movement has epic specs and looks great through the open caseback, but when I wound it, it felt hard and gritty, not smooth like most higher end luxury watches. There's no way I'd pick it over a Submariner.
I agree with the "diminishing return" aspect of watches above, say, $5000 price point. But... Beyond that level... That's precisely when brands have enough $$ to do lots of commercials and afford to have their logos everywhere (in malls... on bill boards... retail store fronts... online ads)... Buyers get bombarded by those brands and think they just have to pay the price. Under $1000, buyers have to make a conscious effort of going to cheaper stores, find out the differences, familiarize with the logos, etc.
You can wear a moon watch and fly completly under the radar. Its comfortable on the new bracelet, and looks smart with a shirt. This is my watch to wear when in head office. My daily beater is a Rolex sub, again it flys under the radar by and large, but has a robustness about it. Great with jeans and a Tshirt. I like simple legible dials.
Well, you immediately mentioned two of the 4 watches that are in my small collection (Hamilton Khaki and the Moonwatch). I guess I gravitate towards the popular watches, as my third and fourth watches are a blue Tudor BB58 and a solar g shock square.
Excellent take on these watches. I was always a big fan of JLC. I have a Reverso and a moon phase calendar but I find their price increases to be unrealistic.
Thanks Mike! For me the IWC Flieger are clearly overrated. But even more so the Breitling Navitimer. Nobody uses its function. And just for the record: I love my tribute monoface cuz as a Reverso it's got to be super slim.
@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch You have become one of the most straightforward, polite, entertaining and knowledgeable watch youtubers on the planet in a short time. Your words are carefully chosen so as to not ruffle anyone's feathers even when your ideas and opinions might have otherwise. Communication is key, and you are a master. Thanks for what you do!
Nice job - love the fact that you share your opinion and share WHY - that is the difference. between your commentary and most of the others on UA-cam. Thank you!
I absolutely love Glashutte Original. The SeaQ Panorama Date is my dream watch. Stunning quality and finishing. I had the opportunity to take a look at one in a Vienna Glashutte shop. Big big love.
My personal opinion is that I think most watches are over rated. I love the content of the channel. I enjoy the quality and analysis. I follow many channels about specific interest that u personally have no interest in. I guess it’s the generalist in me that wants to know more. And what is a better way to learn than from those who are very deep into a specific subject. I can see the craftsmanship and appreciate the beauty. But cannot justify buying a watch. I have my phone. Before that I had a casio in the 90s. But I must say, if all the watches I’ve seen over many videos I still think there’s something special about Patek. I can really see why some are very in love with that brand. Cannot put my finger on exactly what, but even for a person like me that isn’t into watches there’s something about their stuff that speaks to me.
Tissot PRX is still a great watch, especially if you get the quartz version on sale for less than 300. CW, Certina and other double the price watches are in a different budget category. I do appreciate Certina making a quartz, that can be a good value if the bracelet is the same build quality as the automatics.
I love the tag heuer aquaracer in blue and blue strap looks amazing; with the Longines hydroconquest they are my fav divers for that kind of budget hopefully ill get them both someday if i have enough money
3:22 "The Rolex Explorer 2 has personality simply because it's the less picked choice" - for better or worse, this reasoning governs not only watches but a vast majority of consumer goods in general. Something reaching a certain level of popularity in the mainstream means other options appear more interesting simply due to being comparatively niche. On topic, I think this maybe relates a bit to the PRX discussed later. I've found while watch spotting outside, it's so common as to have become a bit bland.
(3:51) "The Moon Watch and Grandpa" story made me laugh. I salute you Sir. Imagine every Speedy owner hearing that. Oh I would get a kick out the reactions. Especially, the kids whose only knowledge is probably Googling and Tom Hank's Apollo 13 . ( More than likely..)
Or it could be a Gen X'er like me who was unimpressed by anything NASA because I saw the original Star Wars on release date and found real space exploration boring in comparison to the film.
Great insights, as always, thanks for the video. For me, the Casio FW91 fits right into this category. Giving in nostalgia over a disposable plastic watch just because it’s under 20€ is the exact opposite of what watch collecting represents to me. No UA-camr is going to change my mind on that
I think it's worth mentioning the horological innovation in Grand Seiko too. I kind of agree with you that zaratzu polishing is overrated, but no-one talks about the dual impulse escapement in the 9SA5. Like Omega's coaxial, a totally different (and probably superior) take on the fundamental design of a mechanical movement. There's the Spring Drive too of course (although personally as a mechanical purist I'm not a fan, but that's just me).
GS watches are hit and miss, but when they get it right, they hit the ball right out the park. However, aside from branding and bracelets, I believe the main issues are as follows: 1)The watches look similar. Most of them have a clean 'business' type look with similar case sizes/styles, so you really have to get up close to notice a difference. There are no perpetual calendars or moonphases, and the few chronos they make have serious design problems and don't look nearly as attractive as other brands that specialise in them in that price range. e.g. Omega, Zenith etc. 2)No definitive models/designs. Connected to point 1. Yes the flake dials are nice and so is the Shunbun, but they don't have genuine flagship models that are strong enough in terms of design to entice people to the brand. This is the reason that GS and their fans focus on the technical merits of the watch (e.g. Spring Drive, Zaratsu, etc). It's because there is no 'gestalt' (mentioned above) to their design language, which means their watches are easier to appreciate under magnification than at the usual distance they tend to be viewed. 3)Pricing. GS are moving upmarket quickly, but the value proposition after 7 or 7.5k is unclear. Up until this price point, and especially below, you are getting a lot of watch for your money. After that, the watches have practically identical looking hands, indices, case finishing etc, so what exactly are you paying for? All 3 points are related in whole or part to the product differentiation problem that currently plagues them.
Grand Seiko’s Zaratsu polishing is indeed overrated when it comes to the case, but the polishing on the indices is unrivalled. It truly ‘dances in the light’ without being gaudy. Not to mention that sweep on the spring drive 😊
I didn't know their original movements were as good as Metas-certified ones and genuinely thought they invested in their movements and released it through Metas-approved ones.
The MT5602-U in the new black bay is the exact same as the one in the previous black bays. The way you tell the difference is only in the naming convention. The old ones are called MT5602 (No "U". Which refers to the magnetism piece). Nothing is changed in the movement. That means - Same architecture. - Same materials. - Same specs. - Same shock absorption - Same antimagnetism - Same power reserve The key difference for METAS is fundamentally two things. 1. The movement is tested in the case vs as the movement in isolation (It might be tested more than once - can't be bothered to double check) 2. The accuracy tolerances are more strict. Basically as Tudor get better at mass producing their movements, they'll have increasing confidence that their movements will pass the METAS tests and as they do they'll roll out metas to more and more models. Basically it's a function of "practice makes perfect".
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch A great explanation, really helpful. Myth busting movement marketing might be a good title for a video... not sure what the content would be though. I find it all a bit daunting... I just decide if I like the watch or not... that seems to be the core of your advice and I agree with it... it's a good philosophy.
I don't own a Grand Seiko but I would some day like to acquire a Spring Drive. Your commentary focused on the ascetics of the Grand Seiko but its quality of finishing and design is only one aspect of it's attraction. The unique engineering of it's design and movement is also a major element in it's appeal and thus should have been considered in your evaluation. The Spring Drive is only available from Seiko and there is nothing from Switzerland to match it.
That's one of the main reasons I bought my Skyflake 3 days ago. I like the idea of owning a watch with a unique proprietary movement that is unlike anything else on the market. GS watches are just _different_.
I am happy that the PRX got more competition in this price segment, as it results in more choice. But double the price is (like the CW 12) is a different price region, and getting more for paying double is something I would expect.
There is still no competition for prx. The citizen is too cheap looking because the bracelet should be the main premium part and it cant compete with prx. the Venezianico Arsenale 40 will be the same pricepoint and looks more premium to me, but Tissot needs competition from the big players Seiko, Casio. Or even Rolex. If Rolex would sell an affordable OysterQuartz for 3-4k Tissot would be in the shadow, just because watch youtubers would hype it like they did with prx.
@@NCSheriff7 even with a Rolex for 3-4K, it would be no competition for Tissot PRX. The price difference is too big. But this is rather theoretical, because Rolex current strategy is not to become more affordable.
@@neodym5809The Powermatic 80 movement is crap and it's riddled with parts from China. That's right the lame Swatch group has been outsourcing from China for years. Even Omega use some parts made in China unlike Rolex that's 100p Swiss and that's why Rolex is one of the best
With all the watch channels out there pretending to give honest and unbiased reviews, this chanel continues to be the perfect antidote. Thank you.
This is the only watch channel I find myself always responding to video comments with "agreed!" 😉
This is the only watch channel I find myself always responding to video comments with "agreed!" 😉
Agree.This Channel feels very original for me. Not trying to sell watch. But just given a point of view from a watch experts.
@@ChrisJones-hs6nj he retired chiss ward. He jumped on that band wagon
Don't forget McMahon, his psychology to watches is well needed in the community.
I find this channel of utmost importance for five reasons :
- First, it is completely independent and unbiased.
- It reviews particular watches and general particularities of the watches and the brands that many of us don't know of.
- It provides useful technicalities to amateur enthusiasts like me without presumptuous views, which is appropriate to most of the viewers which aren't watchmakers.
- It gives very realistic views of the Market and its evolution with very frequent upgrades.
- Last but not least all of this info is wrapped with excellent sense of humor, rationality and leaving space for the watchers to jump into their own conclusions.
Congratulations Mike for this breath of fresh air you give us in a hobby full of certainties in which regards to the claims of many of your counterparts.
Cheers
Just trying to share my perspective. I don't expect people to agree - just to feel that I was worth listening to 😀
Definitely worth listenening to 🎉🎉🎉
Having lived in Japan, I understand how significant Grand Seiko is. It is a true reflection of Japanese culture and understated elegamce. I adore their watches.
As one should 😊
Yes. Recommendations for celeb endorsements is a pleb way of thinking. GS is in its own lane.
Yes I own 2 an snbg003 GMT and Elegance Automatic 38mm with cream enamel dial , love them both .
Yes, they really are magnificent in their own way. Without being loud.
GS🔥
I have a Rolex submariner (no date) and I just can’t stop staring at the dial. The simplicity mesmerizes me. I don’t care what anyone thinks about it, I just absolutely love having it on my wrist, even at home alone.
I'm on the waiting list for a no date sub and I can't wait. It's got nothing to do with being pretentious. I just like the watch. Buy what you love.
I have the same feeling with my Explorer
I agree with you and disagree with Mike's view on the Sub. I also think that IWC is more over rated than GS, definitely overpriced.
@@mikesawtell9184 I never could love IWC. I do love GS, but I couldn't wear such a scratch magnet.
Just my personal opinion, but I think the Speedmaster's history with space exploration and NASA is richer than the history of diving, racing, and (debatable) Mt. Everest climbing history of Rolex.
Is there any debating the Everest story? I thought it was thoroughly disproven. I love the Explorer, but marketing gonna market.
There is No climbing history with Rolex, the watches both climbers were wearing were Smiths, a Rolex may have been taken by some of the team, but it was never an official thing
Rolex even admitted lying about it and apologised at the time, Rolex have tried to attach themselves to any significant event, as they are a marketing company who make watches not the other way around
Moon landing was fake
its funny cuz edmond hillary wore a smiths watch to the top of mount everest not the rolex
Astronauts…to the moon Nya Nya Nya 🤣
My wife uses reverse mono back kind of like a mirror to put lipstick on lol. It has its use!
She's pretty cool.
JLC are pretty dumb not to market that.
Thats cool!!
@@barryliu1890 that's kinda sexy, ngl
@@shuycgcan fight cartier for the most poupular ladies watch
I am a dial lover, and to me the dial is what draws you into the watch like an attractive woman across the room. From this perspective I absolutely love my Grand Seiko Shunbun/Spring Equinox model with its cherry blossom dial. On the surface, if you have not seen the handiwork that goes into each Grand Seiko watch and its dials, then you cannot begin to appreciate the artisanship that goes into each Grand Seiko. The good news is that Hodinkee recently toured the Grand Seiko factory and wrote an in-depth article with many pictures that will amaze you. You may then ask yourself how does GS put this much handiwork into each model and not charge Patek Philippe prices? Each brand makes about 50-60,000 watches per year.
For me, that Speedmaster just looks awesome and because I am a track coach, I love the whole old school analog aspect of timing things (things that don’t require pinpoint accuracy).
Concur with all, yet I think you were a smidge too tough on Grand Seiko. On styling, bracelets, etc., I agree, but on value for money I think they excel. If you like the styling, I just don’t see anything Swiss that comes close for the price. Just my $.02. Nice video on a useful question.
Yes I agree. The analogy about Grand Seiko being similar to classical music or opera is off as well. Those would be Patek or Vacheron Constantin. Grand Seiko is more like aficionados of Prog.
@@Chiller11 No way. Patek or VC would be rap music. A flashy fad that came from nowhere and will go nowhere
Rap music has topped the charts for over 30 years! I think it’s past the “fad” phase. Now even country music is using rap!
Great. Now I have to rewrite my ENTIRE letter to Santa. ALL OF IT.
LOL. Me too.
🤣
I sold my Submariner and got a SeaQ and an Omega Seamaster 300 Trilogy 60th anniversary for the money and the two bring me way more joy. Good vid, Mike.
Very very good decision! Seaq is very underrated I think
Thank you. I got it with a 30% discount brand-new, which was a great benefit.
SeaQ. Sorry, but I am drooling. My Vostok Komradiirski is ready to be replaced with something complimentary to my Tag Carrera 16. I'm considering:
Muhle Blackmotion
Muhle Seebattalion
Doxa
Zodiac
Sinn U1, U2, GX
Mido
Rado
Omega
Argh! In the category of diver, there is so much to chose from!
I saw the first ten seconds: felt the fire and got myself popcorn to enjoy this. Banger choice of topic and video Mike. Loved the audacity and the respectful restraint. Need a part two 💯🥳
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed the vid 😊
20:47 The "days since last purchase" counter hahah
I love my 'unfinished' watch collection, as it gives me so many options. But it's quite basic really...
- Grand Seiko Snowflake Spring Drive
- Grand Seiko Tentagraph 5Hz Chronograph
- Omega Speedmaster Moonphase
- Omega Seamaster 300 Chronograph
- Rolex GMT Master 2 "Rootbeer"
- Rolex Submariner "No Date"
- Cartier Santos ADLC
- Cartier Santos Tank Large
- Casio G-Shock MRG-B5000B "1983 Retro Square"
- Casio G-Shock MRG-B2000B
- A.Lange & Söhne 1815 Up/Down Rose Gold
Who gives a damn about Nico's opinion???
Personally I can't stand him.
I can't stand him either
Yeah, i don't get why is he repeatedly referenced in this channel. He's loud and impulsive, just the opposite of this channel. Maybe that's exactly why.
Hahahaha
Quite. He has always struck me as a brash, vulgar, ill-informed, clog-wearer.
Very interesting video. I recently bought a Seiko presage GMT used for 1/2 retail price. Comparing it other watches around the £5-600. You can see a difference in quality of finishing. What it has made me realise is my taste in watches has changed. About half of my collection I'm happy to sell. The PRX isn't one of them.
I think it's well finished wears really well due to a thin case and the automatic movement keeps very good time. There aren't many watches in my collection that can easily be dressed up with a suit or down to smart casual wear. I don't think it's over-rated, just over-exposed.
Great video and I learned a lot! What was missing for me was the Zenith El Primero! For full disclosure, Yes I own one! Maybe another video on more iconic watches and movements.
Love your videos Mike. I think the Grand Seiko Spring Drive is amazing technology and that to me makes it very desirable. I'm to the point in my watch collecting that I'm looking for something different. That's also why I like the Rado ceramic. It's different. Just my humble opinion.
@@TheLute70 GS spring drive and Rado ceramic are two of my life goals, I wonder why I don't hear more about Rado. They're probably the two biggest advancements in watches right now
@@speedracer2please Rado are big in Asia and the Middle East. They have a unique design language, but the movements are off the shelf, which doesn't appeal to watch nerds.
Great video as always Mike - excellent comment re £4,000 and diminishing returns - I know all about personal wealth but I think an interesting and wide collection is between £500 - £7,000 for most bang for your buck and choice. I do include the secondhand market in this to get hands on Glashutte etc
Butterfly poop! That has to be the greatest explanation I have ever heard.
Lol. Thanks 😂
Puting JLC in the video to show your Reverso was a nice move. Didn't see that coming.
Vladimir
SMOOOOOVE!
@@Javic167 JLC and Omega make some of the coolest old gold dress watches I've ever seen.... the kind that look like a gold bracelet with a watch built in.... theres several on ebay and chrono 24... usually around $4-8k
It was for the people that write in the comments "Do you have even have a watch bro?" 😂
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch as long as your only watch isn't a Rolex, I'd be fine if the Reverso was your only watch or even just rented for the video. lol
The content is what matters and you do the best watch content in therms of insights and market analyses in the watch game.
You hit the nail on the head with the Sub. I was hands on with one today at my AD.... it sorely misses the 'wow' factor one would hope to get seeing it in person.
What did stop me in my tracks? The white gold yacht master!!! You're a legend.
Spot on regarding the Reverso. I bought the small seconds monoface on the secondary and saved a bunch, which made the purchase more palatable.
Great video. Bad example comparing opera to rap. But lots of other good points nonetheless.
Your rare woman here….. Love the video. Great information. So I will continue saving for my white speedy pro…. To scratch the itch I just buy the occasional strap. Just got back from the Toronto Timepiece Show and only bought a $35 digital watch. But got to try lots!! Almost bought a Laco for an excellent price but didn’t because the 39mm had an 18mm lug space. So put it down. If it’s not exactly what I want I don’t buy it and get another strap for the ones I have. Maybe a Stowa later. What do I think is over hyped! Cartier - scratch magnets with unimpressive, lazy dials, boring movements for a lot of money. The only one I like, the Roadmaster, they discontinued.
Thanks for a great video again.
13:50 "You're just paying more for a small improvement in accuracy, and if you rotate watches it's basically going to make no difference." Proper practical real-life collecting tips are rarely heard anymore.
To me the only watches you talked about that are overrated are the Nautilus (boring and insanely expensive with no justification), the Tudor Black Bay 41 (as boring as a third coat of paint and massively unsubtle) and the IWC Pilot (far too expensive for its simplistic design). I do marginally prefer the Aquanaut to the Nautilus, but still ... meh. TOO MUCH MONEY.
Personally I always thought the Submariner was kinda blah until I tried one on. Now I own one. The Sub has to be the most perfect watch in terms of design, subtlety and dimensions (not to mention the astounding Rolex oyster bracelet). I put it on and it feels like it melts into my wrist. Plus it absolutely shimmers in the light, and mine is a 1996 model. I think if anything it is an underrated masterpiece.
The classic 42mm Speedmaster is beautiful to me, except when I put it on my wrist. Then it looks and feels "wrong". I can't explain why I have this reaction to it, but I have yet to find a 42mm Speedy model that feels right on me.
Tag Heuer watches are a little too expensive, though somewhat underrated in general. For me the real problem with Tag is finding a model that meets all my requirements among the BILLIONS of different styles and models they carry. But if you're persistent you will find one eventually. And it will make you happy.
Except for the inexplicably terrible bracelets, Grand Seikos are astounding watches. I've got my three GS watches on leather straps, and they all look stunning. LOVE Grand Seiko ... especially the Spring Drive models with the power reserve on the dial. I don't know why, but that looks magical to me.
The PRX is awesome for the price. It's hard to find anything comparable and with Tissot's history at a similar price level. Likewise, the Khaki Field Mechanical is a beautiful, astounding watch for the price. Just like the Tissot, you'll be hard pressed to find a similar field watch at the price with Hamilton's history and reputation.
Anything made by JLC is, to me, faultless. The Reverso, the Master Control, the Polaris and the Ultra-thin models are almost too perfect for words. Don't get me wrong, they are expensive, but what you get is the horological equivalent of a perfect 5-course Italian meal or a German automobile. Workmanship, design, style and refinement. Amazing!
I can explain by Grand Seiko has those bad bracelets. I guess that contrary to ALL of the Swiss, they refuse to buy them in China, who are the real silent masters of that.
Your rare woman here….. Love the video. Great information. So I will continue saving for my white speedy pro…. To scratch the itch h I just buy the occasional strap. Just got back from the Toronto Timepiece Show and only bought a $35 digital watch. But got to try lots!! Almost bought a Laco for an excellent price but didn’t because the 39mm had an 18mm lug space. So put it down. If it’s not exactly what I want I don’t buy it and get another strap for the ones I have. Maybe a Stowa later. What do I think is over hyped! Cartier - scratch magnets with unimpressive dials, movements for a lot of money. The only one I like, the Roadmaster, they discontinued.
Thanks for a great video again.
Great video as always. Glad to see the Tag Heuer get some love. I feel like they’re back on the right path.
They are, at least I think so 😊
I really like where Tag Heuer is going with their new watches. More COSC certified or in-house movements, higher finishing. They know what direction they have to take.
Even their entry level Carrera's are very well finished. I have a Date 36mm, and I've received more compliments on it than any of my more expensive watches.
They're on a positive trajectory 😀
Interesting as always. But how could you not mention the most interesting Grand Seiko--the quartz version accurate to 10 seconds a year and surpassed generally I think only by the Citizen (5 seconds per year) or the special edition Citizen (1 second per year!). I have enjoyed so many of your reviews but personally I wish the manufacturers would produce *more* quartz watches. The bands, cases, dials, metals etc. you discuss in such detail could all house the always more accurate quartz movement which runs without winding and is easier and cheaper to replace if necessary. Personally I can see no advantage to the inferior time keeping of manual movements, although for watches such as the moon watch who would not want to preserve the winding and the history and maybe a few of the watches with chimes etc. would drain the battery too much to be useful. And shock! digital quartz combine so many of the features watch aficionados swoon over, chronographs, dual time zones (multiple for the digital), moon phases, tide ranges, multiple lap times that can be recalled, alarms any one feature of which is usually all that a mechanical watch can produce and the cheap digitals often have100M or 300M water resistance. So there :-). Any of the beauty features so swooned over with mechanical watches could house a far more accurate and useful quartz movements and none of them can touch the pragmatic features of a digital :-). I do you enjoy your presentations and analysis as things of beauty in their own right and will certainly look forward to your future thoughts and presentations but my one Rolex (GMT II) from the 1990's will probably be all that I ever buy or be tempted to buy in the mechanical world. Quartz starting with the original Seiko was truly an amazing revolution in time keeping, arguably equal to that of Harrison. Ironically the fact that it can be made cheaply now is apparently its main downfall :-).
I stumbled in this rabbit hole literally today. I have two watches, both gifted to me on special occasions, and I never really gave them that much though... until now. It's a really fascinating theme. Thank you for sharing the knowledge.
I used to think that the Tudor 79220R Heritage Black Bay was overrated. Now it’s the only luxury watch I want. These objects remain largely the same; how we see them is what differs over time.
I have the 79220N. I’ve had it for about 10 years and I still love it for its simplicity
My first Rolex was the Explorer - the basic one. And I love it for having no complications, and surprising people that it is a Rolex.
Omega - for me, Planet Ocean, specifically, my 15 year old Planet Ocean. Speedmaster comments are spot on.
Hamilton (Hammy!) - I only have one Hamilton, an Open Heart, but I just love the brand. But agree on Khaki Field, they all look alike to me, and going Sinn or something like that just adds some conversation to the watch.
IWC - I have an Ingeneuer - I love it, no one has any idea what it is as a brand. And that makes me happy compared to the Pilot.
PRX - when it first came out, loved it! Now, it is an overproduced Swatch - just go buy a Swatch.
Citizen - this is a brand I'm watching right now - I have 3 Tsuyosa's, just a charming watch that simply wows and is insane for the price point.
Grand Seiko - thank you... this one keeps me constantly on the fence. Every time I think about buying a Grand Seiko, I wind up going to my personal favorite (Omega). I still want a Grand Seiko... and yet, I don't.
Your perspectives are always great to experience, and appreciated.
This channel continues to be my favorite one regarding watch information. It has helped me to be a better connoisseur. As an added bonus, Mike sprinkles notes and undertones of jocularity.
Thanks for the praise. Appreciated. And thanks for watching too
Accidentally a nice overview of iconic watches. I was working on a poster for Speedmaster and might do one for IWC Schaffhausen.
Mike, Thank you for this episode this keeps me open on what is out there and finding my 'own' style. Seems like everyone is wearing Rolex and OMEGA Speed and Sea masters. Oversaturated you think? Thank you for saying "you don't need to flash it" This one is Pure Knowledge and Lifelong experience on your Behalf. Furthermore, when you said " A Watch may have been around for a long time... but it's not beautiful." That' sir is so true. Man that hit home. This totally helps me in finding that "Heritage Brand if you may.. and still look great to me and maybe to my peers." Again, like the past episodes your Lifelong Knowledge and Experience truly shines in your channel. Unlike these other kids with expensive taste.. who pretty much is just Regurgitating what they Googled to shed light into what they're showing off their in their channel. I was planning on getting an IWC (08:38) Mark XIII or Mark XX as a first watch. Thank you so much for shedding light on the IWC (10:30) brand and other options with Tradition that is more credible in comparison to that IWC. Laco and Stowa do have some great looking timepieces and with reasonable prices!! Thank you Mike. Pure Wisdom.
Zaratsu is great for about a day or two and then it just looks like regular polishing. Or you have to carry around a microfibre cloth to get it all clean and shiny for another few hours lol
I find Nico entertaining, but his dislike of Grand Seiko has always been baffling to me. I'm a newer enthusiast compared to many, but the Spring Drive appears to me to be the most significant innovation in the industry in recent history (at least on the movement side) and that alone earns Grand Seiko its hype. I completely appreciate your assessment of the limited appeal of the company's restrained, utilitarian aesthetic, however. It does help explain the disconnect for many people. Fantastic video as always!
Hi Mike,
Great video! IMHO and based on my experience with both brands, I think JLC is a bit overrated, especially at the entry-level, while Grand Seiko isn’t. I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but my experience with JLC just wasn’t great. The case and dial finishing was nice but definitely less “refined” than on my Grand Seiko. And when I say less refined I don’t just mean different :)
I would buy the Tag. I love the dial, color options, the octagon, the price. But I can't get over the cyclops date. Never on my many scuba dives have I wondered what date it was
Thought provoking and enjoyable, thank you. I've just bought a Casio Oceanus and the case finishing is better than my 90s Datejust, the dial and hands look superb and the (radio/bluetooth connected) quartz movement is always spot on, it is making me reconsider everything I bevieved about watches.
Another great one Mike, with interesting food for thoughts. I wish we were friend, neighbors or colleagues to have someone smart to talk about watches with. Keep it up, I am a big fan!
Thanks for watching 😊
Mike, thank you for moving beyond clickbait and hot takes to fair discussions. There are rich rewards on your channel for listening with attention span.
I appreciate your modesty Mike but to the contrary, your opinion is worth more than most people on UA-cam. That's why we watch and appreciate your videos. Keep them coming.
I'll try my best 😀😀
Hi Mike, I especially loved your insightful comments regarding METAS. The movement is the same as it was before the certification program began, and if you rotate your watches the improvement in accuracy becomes a moot point. So simple, but no one else says these things. Brilliant!
Great content as always!
Speaking of IWC movements, I read somewhere that we can’t really classify movements like mark xx as in-house since these are all manufactured by valfleurier. There is an article on this showing how similar the baumatic, one panerai and IWC movement in mark xx/ingenieur really are. Feels like Richement basically slap a different brand on it with small changes and sell it as in-house
In house movements are just a marketing scam. The Swiss industry traditionally relied on specialists like ETA, JLC, Zenith and Lemania to make movements because they were better and cheaper than anything manufactured in house. 'Rolex' in house movements have *always* been designed and manufactured by Aegler. [This company was eventually sold to Rolex in 2005.]
@@mrbrisvegas2 I agree. It justifies charging higher prices. Just look at Oris, BM and other brands in that segment charging premium way over their usual price range as soon as they put something in-house inside.
Btw, when did in-house watch movements become a big deal and who started it? My guess would be rolex or omega since they both invest heavily in marketing
Fair points about "in house". My own way of thinking about it is more to the question of "how much control does the manfucturer have over the movement design and construction?"
A Sellita is off the shelf. Sellita has a couple of different grades and you pick the one that suits your cost points.
But once you get to Swatch or Kennisi or Richemonts watch manufacturer, they have more leeway to demand customisations, adjustments, etc. They can work closer on doing movements that conform more to their own needs. It doesn't mean that they always do that. Sometimes it is just a stock movement but that added influence and control can lead to better movements in terms of both specs and finishing 🙂
You're a watch therapist. Unconditional positive watch regard. Watching your videos feels cathartic.
Therapist? Overpriced and doesn't really help? -😂😂😂
Both videos I've watched from you off my recommended list have been no bullshit, and straight to the point. Super refreshing. You earned a sub, keep it up.
Edit: Also, I think video time tags would be good for a video this long, to sorta break down some of your opinions and organize them a bit better. Cheers!
Thanks for watching 😊 I try to be reasonably objective and direct at least 😊😊
I bought and wear a sub because I think it’s basically a perfect sports watch. It’s not the most interesting watch I’ve ever had, but it is one I find myself wearing the most. I’ve also never fell in love with the reverso, especially as a monoface, but I really like the master ultra thin moonphase.
At last, a respected voice making the point that "balancing a watch face onto a surface which is inherently round is hard". Maybe it's my newness to watches that means I've not heard others say this before. But this is exactly why I have always personally felt that most Cartiers are extremely poorly designed. Roman numerals are far too "blocky", but also due to their differing lengths they leave some parts of the dial overly busy, whilst leaving others full of gaps, in an unsymmetrical way. Cram all of that into a rectangular shape and it's just a total mess. Each to their own, but I've never understood how people can think the Tank or the Santos etc elegant or well designed. Funnily enough, the one Cartier reference on which I think the roman numerals work as a spectacular piece of design is the Crash - precisely because the imbalance is the whole point of that design.
Great video as always, have you seen the "Henry Archer" line up? I'm not the biggest micro brand enthusiast but I do fancy them. Cheers!
Great video. Enjoyed your opinions. All Rolex's with a cyclops are overrate for me but only because they never line up with how I look at a watch. I also find many of the Datejust and Daydate dials difficult to read so as a brand, they are overrated. I can appreciate what they are and their position in the industry but that are not for me.
Another fantastic piece of content. 👏
Watches are an opportunity to convey individuality. I actually care less about what someone is wearing and am more interested in why. Some people gravitate toward form over function, some the engineering sophistication, others it’s finishing, or a story about brand or model. I totally agree that at certain price points it makes sense to start paying attention to some or all of those things more based on what is available to own. More often than not though, I like to hear more about why people made a certain choice so that I can compare it to my own criteria for how I decide to make a purchase. Ultimately people like what they like. Underrated or overrated - it’s all pretty subjective.
Could not agree more with your first point. I once bought an Explorer because I really like the dial and in spite of the fact that it was a Rolex!
I just bought my 4th diver and 2nd GO watch, the SeaQ 39.5 with the non applied indices. It goes with my 14060M, SD4K and BP FF. It just has so much charm and character and not too pricey. Can’t wait to take it to Hawaii soon.
I cannot afford the VAST majority of the watches that you speak about, but somehow, you have still garnered an out-sized impact on my opinions on watches.
I can't afford all of them either if that's any consolation. Thanks for watching 😊
I admit that having the Reverso on the image made me click, but I ended up stayed for the content. You have a new subscriber. I personally chose the monoface, but that’s because it can be engraved with something special.
P.S. I like the Gunpla in the background. 👍
Welcome aboard. Happy I didn't dissapoint 😊
5:48 I do agree with your opinion although the watches mentioned are substantially more expensive in my opinion, going from 700 to roughly 1000 is an extra Seiko 5 sports
Yet another very interesting and useful video😀. On the point of Metas though, if you are totally OCD about the EXACT time then IMHO it helps. I have a couple of quartz watches ( a Casio and a Citizen) and love their accuracy! I also have 2 Omega Metas watches (Aqua Terra and 3861 Speed master "moon watch". The Speedmaster in particular only gains about 1s per day. I have a COSC Christopher Ward which is good to +3s per day so I am a happy camper. I know not everyone is as OCD as me but hey ho! Gonna cost me a mint in servicing in the future!!
Yeah.... I'm not a big details guy so those extra seconds per day are not useful to me, but for others of course... 😊😊
Quality wise which do you think is better the Tissot or Citizen quartz?
I honestly can't wrap my head around why are royal oak and nautilus (or generally most of GG designs) so popular.
Me either. Maybe because those watches are expensive - a sort of an unobtanium so to speak.
Because there are a TON of people with more money than taste and style. Money can't buy either. But they can buy ROs and Nautili.
and I though it was just me.
A fad
I think the same for nearly all Genta designs apart from the UG Polerouter
Your videos are amazingly good! Great thought processes, smart, poignant and well articulated! The UA-cam ‘GOAT’!!!!
Very very kind of you. I am just a nerd with too much time on his hands though 😀
Another good original review.....maybe this is not the best follow up question but when you have a chance, what about Paul Picot? I'm not sure what to think about their price/quality ratio. Merci!
With the bracelet my TAG HEUER CARRERA with the 39 mm , blue dial with the date at the 06:00. The “Glass Box” is at about $7K. I have never seen a watch like this and have been quite fair in my assessment of TAG in general over many years……they were horrible, grotesque jokes. And now it is my favorite chrono. Go figure. It is a “tool watch” and as an old pilot I get them. But with Rhodium covered hands & markers and a beautiful sunburst dial…..it is truly a gorgeous watch. That was what got me and a 39mm diameter sealed the deal. Bought my 1st Heuer in 1969 so……I would totally agree that it is slightly over priced except…..I do not think the movement is a lesser movement than the IWC for example. Even if it was a marginally better movement (lateral clutch, integrated column wheel, 33 jewels , in house is the TAG motor) I don’t think it’s $4K or $5K better. I totally dig your vids Mike. Your channel is growing exponentially and that is really understandable. Thanks for another fine vid.
Excellent video as always Mike! 👏🏼
The whole industry is based on 80-100Y old artifacts - spitfire theme, divers = 98% of people don't know anything about it and don't practice it, flight to the moon or 007, Genta with a integrated bracelet, military field etc. Intended to go for a speedmaster than discovered its not atomatic one, rather 100Y technology?! Are there really no designers these days who can offer a new perspective? Waiting for a really new flash 🙏
Johnathan Ive has done something.
Because decades ago we used to dare, all we do from a fresh perspective is seating in front of the desk.... :/
That's why we dream of those adventures.
Have you seen the Apple Watch? LOL.
@@jefe.amo32 It sells more than the entire Swiss watch industry combined.
Great video. I have to say, I tried on the Glashutte Original in a mall in Dubai and I was so disappointed in it. It felt so cheap compared to the Submariner! The bezel action is awful and gritty, even my Seiko Turtle feels better. The bracelet was terrible, WAY too thick with no taper and the clasp was poor. It just made it feel like a cheap watch. Obviously the dial and look is subjective but to me it looks super ugly.
I'll admit the movement has epic specs and looks great through the open caseback, but when I wound it, it felt hard and gritty, not smooth like most higher end luxury watches.
There's no way I'd pick it over a Submariner.
Fair enough - We all like what we like 😀
Perhaps you saw a dud, but GO are superior to Rolex overall.
I agree with the "diminishing return" aspect of watches above, say, $5000 price point. But... Beyond that level... That's precisely when brands have enough $$ to do lots of commercials and afford to have their logos everywhere (in malls... on bill boards... retail store fronts... online ads)... Buyers get bombarded by those brands and think they just have to pay the price. Under $1000, buyers have to make a conscious effort of going to cheaper stores, find out the differences, familiarize with the logos, etc.
You can wear a moon watch and fly completly under the radar. Its comfortable on the new bracelet, and looks smart with a shirt. This is my watch to wear when in head office. My daily beater is a Rolex sub, again it flys under the radar by and large, but has a robustness about it. Great with jeans and a Tshirt. I like simple legible dials.
Il really love your videos thank you I can imagine the time and work it takes to put all this information together and make it clear for us
Thanks for that - I try to put effort in at least 😀
I'm mesmerised by the smoothness of GS Spring drive. In every watch I look at I long for this. One day . . . .
Appreciate the objectivity re. the new TH Aquaracer 👍
I like it at least 😊
Well, you immediately mentioned two of the 4 watches that are in my small collection (Hamilton Khaki and the Moonwatch). I guess I gravitate towards the popular watches, as my third and fourth watches are a blue Tudor BB58 and a solar g shock square.
Cracking video. Most iconic watch for me is the speedmaster. Such a sexy case and great history. Think they nailed it with the new FOIS
The new FOIS is class 😊
Excellent take on these watches. I was always a big fan of JLC. I have a Reverso and a moon phase calendar but I find their price increases to be unrealistic.
Well said
Thanks Mike! For me the IWC Flieger are clearly overrated. But even more so the Breitling Navitimer. Nobody uses its function. And just for the record: I love my tribute monoface cuz as a Reverso it's got to be super slim.
Thanks!
Very very kind of you - Thank you so much for the support 😀😀
@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch You have become one of the most straightforward, polite, entertaining and knowledgeable watch youtubers on the planet in a short time. Your words are carefully chosen so as to not ruffle anyone's feathers even when your ideas and opinions might have otherwise.
Communication is key, and you are a master. Thanks for what you do!
Nice job - love the fact that you share your opinion and share WHY - that is the difference. between your commentary and most of the others on UA-cam. Thank you!
As long as we remember that it is just an opinion. A perspective to be shared and challenged 😊
Great video! Would love to hear your thoughts on Rado watches
I absolutely love Glashutte Original. The SeaQ Panorama Date is my dream watch. Stunning quality and finishing. I had the opportunity to take a look at one in a Vienna Glashutte shop. Big big love.
My personal opinion is that I think most watches are over rated. I love the content of the channel. I enjoy the quality and analysis. I follow many channels about specific interest that u personally have no interest in. I guess it’s the generalist in me that wants to know more. And what is a better way to learn than from those who are very deep into a specific subject.
I can see the craftsmanship and appreciate the beauty. But cannot justify buying a watch. I have my phone. Before that I had a casio in the 90s.
But I must say, if all the watches I’ve seen over many videos I still think there’s something special about Patek. I can really see why some are very in love with that brand. Cannot put my finger on exactly what, but even for a person like me that isn’t into watches there’s something about their stuff that speaks to me.
Tissot PRX is still a great watch, especially if you get the quartz version on sale for less than 300. CW, Certina and other double the price watches are in a different budget category. I do appreciate Certina making a quartz, that can be a good value if the bracelet is the same build quality as the automatics.
Loving your channel these days. Well articulated opinions!
I appreciate that 😀
I love the tag heuer aquaracer in blue and blue strap looks amazing; with the Longines hydroconquest they are my fav divers for that kind of budget hopefully ill get them both someday if i have enough money
Any thoughts on white gold blue bezel Submariner? Kinda a unique take on the submariner with a bit more flair.
3:22 "The Rolex Explorer 2 has personality simply because it's the less picked choice" - for better or worse, this reasoning governs not only watches but a vast majority of consumer goods in general. Something reaching a certain level of popularity in the mainstream means other options appear more interesting simply due to being comparatively niche. On topic, I think this maybe relates a bit to the PRX discussed later. I've found while watch spotting outside, it's so common as to have become a bit bland.
(3:51) "The Moon Watch and Grandpa" story made me laugh. I salute you Sir. Imagine every Speedy owner hearing that. Oh I would get a kick out the reactions. Especially, the kids whose only knowledge is probably Googling and Tom Hank's Apollo 13 . ( More than likely..)
Or it could be a Gen X'er like me who was unimpressed by anything NASA because I saw the original Star Wars on release date and found real space exploration boring in comparison to the film.
I'm a NASA brat and Apollo 15 was the first launch I saw, the Bulova means more to me than a Speedy.
Another interesting perspective! Thanks for your interesting insights and giving us a different way of looking at these timepieces!
5:22 _"MoonSwatch"_ lol.
Swatch Group: all according to plan...
Haha. Glad someone else caught that. I came in to make the same comment. Sad that this legend is now linked to a swatch.
Yeah just like that the Speedmaster became a punchline
your content is always one of my weekly yt highlights of the week
Yay ❤️
Great insights, as always, thanks for the video. For me, the Casio FW91 fits right into this category. Giving in nostalgia over a disposable plastic watch just because it’s under 20€ is the exact opposite of what watch collecting represents to me. No UA-camr is going to change my mind on that
Good call 😊
I think it's worth mentioning the horological innovation in Grand Seiko too. I kind of agree with you that zaratzu polishing is overrated, but no-one talks about the dual impulse escapement in the 9SA5. Like Omega's coaxial, a totally different (and probably superior) take on the fundamental design of a mechanical movement. There's the Spring Drive too of course (although personally as a mechanical purist I'm not a fan, but that's just me).
Fair point
GS watches are hit and miss, but when they get it right, they hit the ball right out the park. However, aside from branding and bracelets, I believe the main issues are as follows:
1)The watches look similar. Most of them have a clean 'business' type look with similar case sizes/styles, so you really have to get up close to notice a difference. There are no perpetual calendars or moonphases, and the few chronos they make have serious design problems and don't look nearly as attractive as other brands that specialise in them in that price range. e.g. Omega, Zenith etc.
2)No definitive models/designs. Connected to point 1. Yes the flake dials are nice and so is the Shunbun, but they don't have genuine flagship models that are strong enough in terms of design to entice people to the brand. This is the reason that GS and their fans focus on the technical merits of the watch (e.g. Spring Drive, Zaratsu, etc). It's because there is no 'gestalt' (mentioned above) to their design language, which means their watches are easier to appreciate under magnification than at the usual distance they tend to be viewed.
3)Pricing. GS are moving upmarket quickly, but the value proposition after 7 or 7.5k is unclear. Up until this price point, and especially below, you are getting a lot of watch for your money. After that, the watches have practically identical looking hands, indices, case finishing etc, so what exactly are you paying for?
All 3 points are related in whole or part to the product differentiation problem that currently plagues them.
I’ve had a Blackbay 41 for 8 years. It’s the least expensive watch in my collection, but it’s the one I wear the most. Simple, legible, versatile!😊
Grand Seiko’s Zaratsu polishing is indeed overrated when it comes to the case, but the polishing on the indices is unrivalled. It truly ‘dances in the light’ without being gaudy. Not to mention that sweep on the spring drive 😊
You need a part 2 to rate all the icons... and a part 3 and 4 and 5...
On a more serious note, I'm curious what you think of the Monaco.
Monaco? Too big. Get's a lot of historical love, but unwearable for many people 😊
I didn't know their original movements were as good as Metas-certified ones and genuinely thought they invested in their movements and released it through Metas-approved ones.
The MT5602-U in the new black bay is the exact same as the one in the previous black bays. The way you tell the difference is only in the naming convention. The old ones are called MT5602 (No "U". Which refers to the magnetism piece).
Nothing is changed in the movement.
That means
- Same architecture.
- Same materials.
- Same specs.
- Same shock absorption
- Same antimagnetism
- Same power reserve
The key difference for METAS is fundamentally two things.
1. The movement is tested in the case vs as the movement in isolation (It might be tested more than once - can't be bothered to double check)
2. The accuracy tolerances are more strict.
Basically as Tudor get better at mass producing their movements, they'll have increasing confidence that their movements will pass the METAS tests and as they do they'll roll out metas to more and more models. Basically it's a function of "practice makes perfect".
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch A great explanation, really helpful. Myth busting movement marketing might be a good title for a video... not sure what the content would be though. I find it all a bit daunting... I just decide if I like the watch or not... that seems to be the core of your advice and I agree with it... it's a good philosophy.
I don't own a Grand Seiko but I would some day like to acquire a Spring Drive. Your commentary focused on the ascetics of the Grand Seiko but its quality of finishing and design is only one aspect of it's attraction. The unique engineering of it's design and movement is also a major element in it's appeal and thus should have been considered in your evaluation. The Spring Drive is only available from Seiko and there is nothing from Switzerland to match it.
That's one of the main reasons I bought my Skyflake 3 days ago. I like the idea of owning a watch with a unique proprietary movement that is unlike anything else on the market. GS watches are just _different_.
I am happy that the PRX got more competition in this price segment, as it results in more choice. But double the price is (like the CW 12) is a different price region, and getting more for paying double is something I would expect.
There is still no competition for prx. The citizen is too cheap looking because the bracelet should be the main premium part and it cant compete with prx. the Venezianico Arsenale 40 will be the same pricepoint and looks more premium to me, but Tissot needs competition from the big players Seiko, Casio. Or even Rolex. If Rolex would sell an affordable OysterQuartz for 3-4k Tissot would be in the shadow, just because watch youtubers would hype it like they did with prx.
@@NCSheriff7 even with a Rolex for 3-4K, it would be no competition for Tissot PRX. The price difference is too big. But this is rather theoretical, because Rolex current strategy is not to become more affordable.
@@neodym5809The Powermatic 80 movement is crap and it's riddled with parts from China. That's right the lame Swatch group has been outsourcing from China for years. Even Omega use some parts made in China unlike Rolex that's 100p Swiss and that's why Rolex is one of the best
The Powermatic 80 movement is crap and it's riddled with parts from China. The Swatch group has been outsourcing from China for years