One thing I love about your approach is that you don’t just state this or that. There is always a very reasonable argument to your perspective. I may not always agree but it’s easy to understand your perspective. Cheers!
All Richemont brands are overpriced. Lange, VC, and JLC were all fairly priced like 4 years ago but when the secondary market exploded in late 2020-2021 Richemont jacked up the prices for all these brands thinking the market will continue to rise. Now that things have come back to earth, they all are now overpriced
That’s fair but so is Rolex. Which is the most overrated brand in the world. That brand is also coming down to earth. Like $15k for a submariner in the open market on average is crazy. People will lose their stuff in the long run thinking Rolex is “investment” lol 😂
That's always a danger when you have merges. It's anti-consumer because they are not really competing against each other anymore, its more co-optive strategy. The same is true with the Swatch group, their prices are less keen across the board. Epson is also the same, it owns quite a few watch brands.
I paid £4,423 for my Reverso classic small seconds in July 2020, that currently go for £9650. Would I pay the current price, absolutely not, but was happy what I initially paid for the watch back in 2020. I had mine engraved with my initials on the case back to make it more interesting.
Omega were the perfect watches in the 4-5k range. Now an aqua terra costs 7600 euros for no damn reason. That was enough to push me to get grand seikos.
Good Grand Seiko watches cost similar or more. Basic 3 hand manual wind grand Seiko in leather straps cost 5k euros. A nice grand Seiko with the updated movement costs 10k euros
Most people would like to see the day when Omega can out sell Rolex. How can they do that without raising prices? Also, any watch brand that has improved the quality of their brand across the board should raise the prices according to the market. Some people approach Omega like this: "they make a great product and if they price it at a deal I (might) buy one". Folks want the brand to bribe them into buying one instead of just saying there's a ton of quality and iconic status of some of the designs so it's still a fair deal.
@@hammalamiri12 Depends on the model obviously, but cheaper Spring Drive models (5-6k Euro) offer more value for money than say a Seamaster or Aqua Terra. The updated movements aren't more accurate, they are just smaller/thinner. The value proposition of GS watches beyond 8k Euro is somewhat questionable. You don't really get that much more for your money than with cheaper models, with few exceptions.
Around 2020 or so I went looking to buy a JLC Reverso Quartz watch, on my relatively modest Canadian public servant's salary. I believe there was an option for $5700.00 CAD and a slightly larger version for around 6K CAD. I thought those would be excellent choices, and a reasonable price for what I was looking at. COVID happened and I had to take a step back from going off on vacation to check out the watch, and I lost sight of that particular goal. I went back a few years later to finally get that watch of my dreams and found it was now $9600.00 CAD. I've never considered JLC a serious watch company since, no matter how beloved they are, or how great their watches can be. That's a simply absurd pricing model.
Yea, in the same boat. Their pricing recently since COVID has not reflected the impression we used to have about them. It feels like they are trying to go upmarket or something.
Ooh I do like the Autavia but you are right. Its not worth it new. Second hand though... 😁 I have a friend who has a rule... When buying watches anything in plastic you buy new and anything in steel you buy secondhand. Let another man take the hit. Hope you have a fantastic weekend Mike!
Casio MR-G, which are starting to approach $10k for exotic titanium and mythical finishing with proper metal enclosures - still though, having resin shock absorbers inside, digital LCD displays and ICs from a mass production electronics company. Casio, like other watch companies, are also looking for their whales.
Some of those higher level G-Shocks are damn impressive though in hand. I bought an GMWB5000D-1 last night on sale, and I thought I paid too much for a Casio, and that's entry level premium square 🤣 Having said that, pricey G-Shocks at least get us thinking about what a luxury watch actually is.
I love Casio but I never understood those. Even with the materials and finishing, they’re way too overpriced. A Citizen Forza uses titanium but they’re priced way below 1k
Of course something has changed. Inflation. Nothing cost today what it cost 20(!) years ago. A honda civic new in 2005 started at $13,260USD, A 2025 Civic new starts at $24,250.
Nor, has that much changed in cars. However the average price of a car in the United States is now $47,000. Yes, obviously you can get cars much cheaper than that, however that does not change the average price. I am sure many will say the technology has changed etc has changed blah blah blah. Ultimately not aligned with the increase of the price of an average car now.
All new entrants into the world of watches should be made to watch your uploads Mike, prior to making their first purchase. The watch market needs someone that can be trusted to offer an unbiased, sensible opinion that takes the emotion out of the purchase making decision. You're the man for that. Points off this week for not using the term "strap monster". 😛
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Indeed. Where your opinion carries more weight than others, is that you’re not selling anything other than that. I do hope you resist the temptation for mugs, tee shirts & hats in the links below!
Lol. 😂I garuantee I won't ever take money or watches from a brand. Coffee mugs are also out of the question since I don't drink coffee. But a line of generic nato straps with my logo on them? hmmm 😂
I sold my speedy last year, it no longer sparked joy and was due a service. I looked into servicing before selling. Omega wanted £500 and to keep the watch for 6 months. When I said that this seemed a bit excessive, the boutique rep suggested I buy another Omega to wear in the interim (with a straight face, she wasn't joking). I sold it for a grand more than I paid, which is mental. Omega apparently have moved into the aspirational segment, completely detached from reality. Won't be buying another.
Hi all Thanks so much for the support and for enjoying the video. Two points of note: 1. For the reverso I used video for the monoface tribute while referencing also the price for the monoface classic. That could be a little confusing. Apologies. 2. JLC prices vary wildly from country to country and it’s not just down to exchange rates. In the euro zone alone the monoface tribute has close to 800 usd spread. So depending on where you live in the world you could be paying anything between 8.400 usd to 10.900 usd for the new tribute. (I did add a note about this in the video) Although the new tribute released recently is a better proposition than some of the previous models, it’s still on the high side in my opinion. I would guess that this was “as low” as JLC felt they could go. Even at close to 9.000 in the US market I still think it’s too much (despite hand bevelled movement components - which like I said in the video are hidden behind a steel case back). Cheers
JLC just introduced a smaller (more close to the original) sized Reverso, which you can consider the new entry model, below 10k.. your point still valid, though
Yeah - The new model seem to be an attempt to at least get to a better value offering. I have to give them that. It's still expensive but a step in the right direction 😃
Waiting on my 1st Cartier(a Francaise) and looking forward to it! But Mike, you are very spot on about the high cost of luxury watch brands raising prices because they can.....makes no sense! FWIW,you're still the best when it comes to explaining the business end of luxury watches!
One thing that annoys me about Oris is that they're seemingly using their new clasps with on-the-fly micro-adjustments to upsell you to their expensive in-house movement models, as if their Sellita-based models weren't already expensive enough to accommodate that feature. Then you have the Pro Pilot X. An interesting design for sure, but €4300 for a watch with a very plain dial with printed indices and clasp with no micro-adjusts whatsoever? That quite steep, especially since most people probably aren't willing to pay Tudor money for an Oris.
When I started to obses about watches the oris kermit was launched, at a blind guess I deemed it to be expensive but adviable to buy, then I saw the price and laugh for the absurdity.
I would argue that Lange is actually exceptionally good value if you are looking for that type of watch. Just buy them on the secondary market and there you go, a world class complicated watch for half, or even a third of the cost of a similar Patek.
To which I'd add, there is not much difference in appearance, especially to a non-watch nerd - which most people are - between a high-end, very expensive G, and a "normal" one..
I was offered a discount on an Omega Worldtimer at AD, then another one on the phone after I left. Says it all and actually the experience tilted me away from a tight decision. The price collapse on the secondary market is also very illuminating.
The NTTD is worth 7.2K USD with bracelet and full kit, as new. One of the best watches I own. The weight and case height makes it wear very different from a standard Seamaster 300. It could easily be my only watch.
There are a few people, not that many, but apparently enough, who enjoy paying full price for a watch at a boutique, at an AD. I personally would love to swan into a store and pay full price for an expensive watch, for the sake of developing a memory of extravagance, as silly as that sounds. "So I said to Hemingway, I said, Ernie, I don't have to outrun the bulls at Pamplona, I just have to outrun you, you son of a gun." That's what a lot of watch collectors like to think when they get a watch, that it's the first step in some scheme or adventure. And nowhere in that fantasy is there a fluorescent light lit basement filled with folding tables that are covered with watches in ZipLoc bags. But I do agree with you that some of these watches aren't worth the extra squeeze. But maybe, a few are? I'll let you know after my safari.
Believe it or not there are some watches that are cheaper at the AD point of sale than the "basement" scenario. I bought an Omega Ed White, admittedly after a year's wait, and just before a dramatic price rise, for far less than the grey market prices. Plus you get the "memory of extravagence" hero status in the boutique. Nice turn of phrase there btw.
I got my Divers 65 few months before the worldwide lockdown. It costed just slightly more than a thousand dollars. Right now, I go to any retailer and the display prices are more than double of it. Yes, all Oris products are overpriced for a brand known to be 'affordable luxury'
Since we're talking about exceeding 5k as a price point. I have been looking at the Rolex explorer 36mm, would you consider this a reasonably priced watch at almost 7 thousand US? Or is there a much better alternative (I know omega aqua terra is around the same price).
Like you, I love the Seamaster 300 NTTD and would love one however, £9.5k retail is beyond insanity. Nudging us in the direction of the secondary market is certainly sound advice. Just a matter of finding a good one from a trusted source - that’s the challenge. Love your reviews.
Fair priced watches: Mido, Certina, Hamilton, Rado, Longines, some Omega, CW, Tissot, Baume et Mercier, Tudor, most Nomos, Stowa, and a lot of other brands from Germany.
Can agree on all. I'll add my 2 cents. Bell & Ross i actually really like, but, would make this list too. Panerai. I really like the white dial Submersible in 42mm. Had a look at one to judge if it'll work on my 7" wrist and check the quality. Overall, felt good and nice UNTIL I got to the bezel. I've read online how it is "disappointing". I checked the white dial and another black to make sure it wasn't just the one example I had. Yeah, it's a loose and cheap feeling bezel action. Totally not worth near a $10k price, and I Panerai's are at least $3-4k overpriced, already. And, Panerai is known for dive watches, too. And to see a critical dive component which will easily be interacted with be so bad is a real shame. Note, the 44mm version feels a lot better in the bezel. And, it's not that much more $$ to the 42mm. But, still not close to being near $10k retail.
Bell & Ross are essentially fashion watches. Even the CEO pretty much admits that. They have some interesting designs though, no doubt, but their prices have gone through the roof lately, and they are basically like cheap Hublots in 2024.
My "won the lottery" grail watch is Bovet Virtuoso III. Never gonna happen but I did buy a 1947 Bovet Landeron 51 that was recently serviced. I visited the Omega boutique in LA and the sales guy did the hard sale with 0% financing and I was actually tempted but am saving up for a trip to Paris to buy a Cuervo Y Sobrinos Chrono. The Omega guy actually knew the brand and had visited the original boutique in Havana. Great video!
Again your detailed insights, spot on critics and all in that brutal honesty, straight in the face, it’s such a pleasure watching your videos and taking it all in. 😊 Now about the Blancpain Swatch, I have the perfect storm version, black with a black Artem sailcloth strap. It’s magical, it really is. Like what you explained in another video about the balance and how a strap or bracelet subtracts or adds, exactly that is how the Artem strap adds to the Blancpain Swatch. But…. With a 140$ Artem strap on the 360$ plastic watch, it is indeed WAY overpriced. 😊
Yet, another superior video. I love the honesty and clarity along with reasoning. I took your advice from previous videos and again you mentioned it in this video as well, to try some models from 2ndary market. I just had my Santos Blue dial (almost new) for almost 25% less. and boy I love it... it wears well and pleasing to look at. Keep up the good work. happy to watch you videos.
An arbitrary rule I used to have was that a well-made steel tool watch from an Omega-tier brand should cost 1 or 2 months' salary for an average office worker in a developed country, and a gold time-only dress watch from a brand like JLC, 3 months' salary. Alas, those days are LONG behind us.
Omega has lost their frigging minds with the prices. I guess Omega is paying through the nose for that awful marketing and brand ambassadors that don't give 2 shits about the brand. So they're gonna milk the customer for every cent possible. It won't be long before the Speedmaster is 10k or more
Speedmaster is cheaper than an elpimero or navitimer……and only a few hundred £££ more expensive than a TAG Monaco. id say its competatively priced in comparison.
@@mohnnadmercedes8246yes, buyt youve had 8 years of inflation which cumulatively is over 24%, a new movement and model launched since then with a far better bracelet too.
Great call on the Swatch 50 Fathoms. I waited for ages for the black one to come into stock, finally got my hands on one, it felt cheap and the 12 o'clock marker was on the piss. Politely handed it back and walked out the store. I also feel Panerai is at the root of Richemont's price hikes across all the brands. When they saw how much people would pay for that level of movement and finishing, then threw in a B&M "in-house" movement and saw it sell for a jacked up price, by comparison JLC, IWC, even Lange were underpriced in their eyes.
Different subject - would you do a review of Ressence? The Type 8 intrigues me. I know that Sinn made an oil filled diver - just curious about your thoughts.
There's a lot of thought and analysis in your videos, which are appreciated and a big reason I enjoy your channel. It seems like you're trying to pick up the pace a bit in this particular video, quicker speech and quicker cuts. I know that works for some channels and some content, but I don't think it's the best match for your thoughtful style and content. I prefer the previous pacing. Regardless, keep up the great work!
Thanks for watching. I try to balance the pacing - These list videos do tend to fly a bit faster as there is less to "digest", but my general intent is not to speed things up. Cheers 😃
Great video, as ever. Can’t argue with most of this and it boils down to - when in doubt, buy a Longines! I have a 38mm blue teak dial Aqua Terra and a 39.5mm blue dial Planet Ocean. I love them both but it is a bit crazy that both increased by £1,000 in 12 months after I bought them. JLC have lost their minds. I like Cartier but would only ever buy a quartz version which I think are good value whereas the automatic versions are not. I think the Speedmaster Pro sapphire is now overpriced - it shouldn’t cost £1K more than the hesalite version which, after all, is the real icon.
And THIS is why we live in a very good world of microbrands and smaller production companies. Blindfolded, you wouldnt be able to tell the difference. Eyes wide open, they are way more interesting to look at for a feaction of the price.
Agree! Just received my Direnzo Eclipse in white dial and I can’t believe the quality for under 1k. A hand written thank you from the designer who is obviously passionate about his product makes it that much better for me.
I agree completely. There are a lot of great watches at attractive prices which do not reflect huge marketing budgets and just paying a lot more for the name.
Lange is nice but overpriced for what they intrinsically are - its seems driven by labour costs for "double assembly". Any suggestions of alternatives to the ALS Datograph?
Glashutte Original Pano. ALS and Glashutte Original workers probably go to the safe cafes for lunch as they are right next door to each other. IMO Glashutte is almost as well made and finished as ALS for a fraction of the cost and because they are under appreciated they can be very good value in the used market.
Great review Mike. I'd be interested in seeing a review of the Bremont Broadsword. A lot of people compare it to Hamilton field watches but I tried one on at the AD and it was definitely in a different league than Hamilton.
Yep prices are insane. I understand luxury goods are suppose to be expansive, but these brands went a tad over. Especially the same watch can be had on the used for way less. Putting a halt on my collection. Have more than I could wear.
Pretty spot on however I’d challenge two of these. For sure the Oris pro pilot. A titanium watch with an in-house 5 day power reserve 10 yr warranty movement is absolutely unheard of at any price point. And $3-4k is super fair value. 2nd if the conversation is about value for the money and not value retention then Lange dials, cases and movements for the price are at least fair. Put a 1815 next to the new steel AP code for 30k and it’s a joke, the AP is just sad by comparison.
Love the video and I must agree, lot of watches are way overpriced. That is why, I go for the older models from IWC, like the pilot’s IW387802 bought for € 5000 with including a 2024 full service from IWC including new strap ( bought at Zeitauktion in Germany)Also did this with JLC, Panerai and Roger Dubois. There are some great deal out there, with great movement, because lately the Richmond group is using a lot of the same movement in IWC, Cartier, Panerai( the caliber P900🤪), with is also available in a Baume & Mercier that cost € 3000. In the other brands is cost more then twice that or even more.
I, as very often, totally agree with you. But guess what: I recently bought a Hublot CF Chrono instead of a Rolex Ex I. And I own the SMP300 007 NTTD titanium! I must be crazy, but I like both watches very much. But to be fair, I bought both CPO for prices far below the list prices. 😉
Generally I don't think those brands overprice nearly as much as the more established brands. Their margins are slimmer, their costs are likely higher (because they don't control production and don't have the volumes). AnOrdain as an example are not unfairly priced. They hand enamel dials, which is a ridiculously finnicky process that is slow and prone to error. The number of dials they make per day per employee can probably be counted on two hands. The cost of making that is super high. Whether it's a sustainable business model is another question... 😃
Like you have said in a previous video there is a lot going on in the sub £2k ($2.5k) bracket… and some really nice stuff at under $700 from micro brands. The higher up the tree you climb the more things seem to cost. I like this though it gives me something to work towards and aspire to… although I also know some watch brands are just beyond me ever being to own despite their beauty. As cost increases and a watch becomes (to most people) an almost unobtainable dream does value for money become less relevant? Another great video Mike, a very insightful and interesting analysis. I think both my watches so far are great value for money… the IWC Pilot XX and my Miyota 9075 driven Traska Venturer… for one of the former I could have had 8 of the other… but I love them both and that gives them their value… to me 😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I have watched quite I few and I know you like them. Thanks for the videos Mike it is refreshing to see videos with an honest and balanced view. You always qualify your opinions clearly and remind people to have their own… haters going to hate I suppose… thanks again for the great videos.
I must be a special kind of crazy but i do care if my movements are finished well even when it's in a closed caseback. I like to paint miniatures and I'll paint sections that I know will be closed off and will never see the light of day again. I just enjoy knowing that everything is "complete"
To each their own. I would never buy a watch without a display case back at almost any price point. I dont use watches as tools, so being able to see what I paid for is of utmost importance to me. 30k for a Rolex and you cant even see the movement that cost more than my car? No thanx.
Fair perspective. For me it's kind of redundant but on the other hand, opening something up and seeing a bog standard machine blasted movement would be a disappointment 😃
Yup. More expensive than a gold / tt Daytona depending on the model.... If they have a dream of getting the steel models to Rolex levels my head will explode. 😃
Almost all brands are going crazy with the retail pricing. It’s less about volume and more about pushing product to a shrinking core audience. The issue is that I think a lot of these pricing models came out of the inflated hype era and there are going to be serious issues for many brands.
The properties are different and Rolex say they use it because it polishes better and has more of a white gold look to it. IT's probably true, but I just can't tell and I've seen other brands 904L that in no way blew me away. So I don't dispute the fact of what is materially different about it or the implications of what it allows a watchmaker to do, but on a day to day I really can't tell and then I question if it's worth the premium. 😀😀
I always look forward to your take on watches. Value is important to the process of buying a watch, but sometimes we pay up if that's the only option to scratch the itch. My next watch purchase will be in February when I will be in Tokyo. It's my first time there, but I hear they have a robust watch market. I will look at a number of watches that interest me, but bringing home a Japanese brand watch would make me happy. I already have a GS, but I am attracted to the Kurono Tokyo Grand Akane. Love their dials.
I'm happy with my Omega SM 300 M Pro (current Model since 2018) I got my for a bit over 4 k and the only thing that disappointed my was the clasp which was replaces twice (by the dealer on guarantee).
Would love to know your opinion on smaller more start up type watch companies like the gower watch company. I will be purchasing their new smaller dial broughton when its released early next year!
I thought this was going to be one of those fake videos where the answer ends up being “any watch you don’t love is overpriced” etc etc. Great to see a non-clickbait video
Dare I say G-Shock MRG-B5000 titanium square at $3500 yet I still want one. Not sure I could ever actually pull the trigger though since I already have the ~$450 steel version.
The new monoface tribute (blue or white dials) they just launched my goodness they are gorgeous. My heart wants to pull the trigger but my mind reminds me that they are way overpriced: time only, steel case, steel polished indices (not even white gold!), and the cal.822 which has been around for what 3 decades? Power reserve is also under 2 days. What a pity , in Italy it’s priced at almost 9k eur. I guess I have to wait 3 years and hopefully find one more in line with what I’d be willing to pay. For now I will enjoy my TT1932 which feels a it long on my 7in flat wrist but do I really want to sell the TT1931 in steel for this?
I’ve just bought a new Oris Divers 65 with the 400-2 caliber, on bracelet: perfect(ly boring) for me! I paid a very reasonable €2250 ($2450) for it at an AD in the Netherlands instead of the listed €3600 ($3950): I feel lucky now!
re: pricing and sizes. Some brands don't charge less for smaller sizes such as Omega. For the Aqua Terra, the larger size even has a better movement, yet the 38mm with the 8800 caliber is the exact same price. Is there any justification for this other than 'just because'?
On Panerai you mentioned how the small upgrades cost a lot when you move up from the base models. Are you aware of the "downgrades" recent base models have had? Snap on caseback reducing WR to 100m, ordinary spring bars instead of the nice screwed ones, there may be more too.
I am. Also how they downgraded the movements - Removing hacking seconds, reducing finishing so finishing is limited to visible areas of the movement. It's been a race to the bottom to save money 😃
Hi Mike: very good analysis as always 👍. That's why I mainly collect watches between 1300$ and 3500$ and have set a limit of max. 4000$. There is one exception, the GO PanomaticLunar. I might have paid the list price for it. Fortunately, I was able to get it well under list at an AD. Okay, it was still over my limit, so I had to give up two or three watches on my list. But the GO was worth it to me ❤.
I like my swatch fifty fathoms so much I bought a second one I never wear my moonswatches-they feel too cheap-and I have the steel speedmaster. The swatch collab straps are what are real crap. I put them all on rubber.
I'm weird but I love my Blancpain x Swatch... Bright yellow with black Nato/yellow stripe. Keeps time well. More ppl comment on it than with my more sedate and probably better watches. But in general, the "better options" in this video are way out of my price point and interest. The only one of these I own is the CW titanium. It's My favorite of my 55+ watch collection. But, like many say, "but what YOU like". Mike, I love almost all your commentaries and rarely miss one of them"😊
@@Feldos52I totally agree with the sentiment of buying what you like. The Blancpain x Swatch isn’t my cup of tea aesthetically speaking, so for me it’s a very simple decision - I won’t be buying one. If I did like the watch, there’s still one sticking point for me, and that is the fact that the movement can’t be serviced and they wear out after a few years of use. If you’re wearing it occasionally, it could last a long time, but if you wear it daily then you’ll be lucky to get 5 years out of it, after which it’s dead. The idea of a disposable mechanical watch doesn’t appeal to me. I tend to grow more attached over time to the watches I like and wear, so the idea of it wearing out would really bother me. I appreciate that putting a more traditionally built, serviceable watch movement like an ETA or Sellita would push up the price significantly, though.
@@mercuriall2810 I don't disagree with anything you said. For me, I rotate between about 35-40 of my watches and there are only a few that get worn more than once a month. I think I've got "a touch" of ADHD. Also, I'm 72 years old so I'm more concerned about my longevity than that of the watch. It will be more likely become an estate sale item than it will get passed down to one of my kids. Just as aside, I'm a very OCD surgeon. None of the watches I have purchased new have a scratch on them...seriously. I know it will happen some day...lol. Anyway, nice chatting with you.
I fell for the Panerai and Hublot hype over 10 years ago....Used to have 5 different pams and 2 Hublots (Ice Bang and Big Bang) although most of them looks pretty much the same... finally got rid of them since their prices didnt retain much value.
This remembers me the legend of Robin Hood and Prince John. These are undoubtedly John Lackland's watches. As you previously said JLC has raised the price of their watches just BECAUSE. Generally they didn't do any special upgrades to justify their current price points. As what concerns Panerai they should be very careful. They call in-house movements to things we know that they aren't. They lost hit so they should be more humble. The all story built about their heritage is mostly a story and not History. I own a Panerai Luminor for more than ten years. I like it, but I don't rush for it so often. The movement inside is a common 7750. I have other watches with this movement and better finished, one of them is a Hanhart Pioneer II, a much lovelier watch. Absolutely on spot. Thanks. Cheers Mike.
Great video. I was wondering if a Speedmaster new old stock with a Valjoux movement is worth 3300 bucks ... We can get it at the grey market. I think the more I see videos, the more I can recognize the magic of a Speedmaster whatever the topic is.
I always loved the Bremont H1 Fury in blue but £5995 is/was a joke & I'd never pay that for a Bremont however in this year's Jan sales there were some brilliant deals on new watches. One such deal was 45% off retail for the aforementioned piece & then with a subscription-based 48hr promotion of another 10% off the sale price. Voila - a new Fury for under £3k was mine....now that's a bit more like it! I also bought the steel/gold bracelet SMP 300 with black dial in a similar deal £11600 at the time (now £11,900) was way too much imho - 20% off list followed by another 20% off the sale price. New two-tone Omega for £7400...not bad!
Maybe I'm a noob, but Grand Seiko's pricing their high-beat in the same category as a Spring drive always seems like a huge error. If I can go for a spring drive with an interesting dial, the high-beat simply cannot compare (unless servicing is the main concern, which could be slightly cheaper with a high beat).
Can you elaborate on disregarding 904L stainless steel? I don't know much about it but assumed it's something great I'm missing out on Also you WAY elaborated on my earlier question about Oris haha thank you very much
Its lower in carbon and other impurities. Used industrially where corrosion is a factor such as continuous submersion in salt waters. Benefits for watch users is no need to rinse off your watch with freshwater.
904L is "rolex steel" because they're almost the only ones that use it. It's a slightly different alloy. Mainly it should corrode less and polish better. Real world benefits are minimal to none 😃
The problem with your review of the big pilot 43 is that it has a quick exchange system that includes one of the best bracelets in the business. So, the big pilot on strap has way more potential features than you mentioned, even if you have to pay more for them.
Seeing the Japanese Mechs (Gundams?) I thoguht of a question fitting the theme of overpriced things. Do you think Warhammer 40k models are overpriced? And also, what do you think of the Tau with the Japanese like Mechs like the fighting armor of Commander Farsight?
I offer the TAG Heuer Monaco Special edition with a Calibre 11, £8150 for a SW300 with module on top! Perhaps around £4.5K for a SW300 in grade 2 Titanium hit the spot?
1:00 50 hours ain’t bad.. there’s Patek’s and AP’s that come with less for much more money. Technically all luxury watches are incredibly overpriced considering a Casio can do the job better for $30.
The MR-G is far rarer and much more expensive to manufacture than a Submariner. The G-Shock multi-motor units are, by far, the most complex watch movements ever manufactured.
Totally agree re the Oris. I can't imagine who is paying those prices for the in-house movement. I purchased a box and papers 43mm Aquis date on Ebay for $750 and love it!
That entry level Hublot Classic fusion is actually really well-made. The case finishing is good, and the dial is too. I can find grey models under $6,000. I can see buying that over many other brands. I do not care about the movement. No, I wish Hublot offered that watch in Quartz for $5,000. I would buy it immediately. I love Quartz. I hate in house movements.
I love watches, but I don't like throwing my money down the drain. Especially not when companies speculate on the stupidity of their buyers. This year I bought 2 watches from Longines. The watches here are still really well priced. The quality matches the price perfectly. greeds BM
JLC is well-priced in the secondary market, especially the Reversos, which actually appreciate after the first resale. Steel, not gold. Unfortunately their best designs in recent years (Grand Date, Grand Taille) are also out of production.
In a watch world of fawning videos and over-generous reviews this is a bit of a gem. Straight talking and all the better for it.
I try at least. Don't always get things right, but I have a perspective 😃
One thing I love about your approach is that you don’t just state this or that. There is always a very reasonable argument to your perspective. I may not always agree but it’s easy to understand your perspective.
Cheers!
I try to be reasonable at least 😂
Great video. JLC stands out as having really gone overboard here. I'm a big fan of the Master Control line, but at retail, today, absolutely no way.
You are the reason why I started watching watch UA-cam once again. You are the most objective , no nonsense , factual watch UA-camr
Kind words. I'll try not to disappoint 😃
All Richemont brands are overpriced. Lange, VC, and JLC were all fairly priced like 4 years ago but when the secondary market exploded in late 2020-2021 Richemont jacked up the prices for all these brands thinking the market will continue to rise. Now that things have come back to earth, they all are now overpriced
That’s fair but so is Rolex. Which is the most overrated brand in the world. That brand is also coming down to earth. Like $15k for a submariner in the open market on average is crazy. People will lose their stuff in the long run thinking Rolex is “investment” lol 😂
Same with LVMH brands Tag or Zenith have reached omega and Rolex prices
Other than thr monaco, which Tag is priced equal to and omega for the same features?
Chrono from the Carrera and autavia lines for instance
That's always a danger when you have merges. It's anti-consumer because they are not really competing against each other anymore, its more co-optive strategy. The same is true with the Swatch group, their prices are less keen across the board. Epson is also the same, it owns quite a few watch brands.
I paid £4,423 for my Reverso classic small seconds in July 2020, that currently go for £9650. Would I pay the current price, absolutely not, but was happy what I initially paid for the watch back in 2020. I had mine engraved with my initials on the case back to make it more interesting.
what are you waiting for, put it for sale before the price drops down
Who would buy it with his initials engraved and more importantly do you think he would have engraved it if he was going to sell it?
@@AndrasMenyoExactly this, hence why it’s a keeper.
I paid $179,000 for my house back in 1979. It's now worth 6.5 million.
@@steelsteez6118Must be nice to be hardworking. I can’t afford a house because I’m a lazy millennial, allegedly
Omega were the perfect watches in the 4-5k range. Now an aqua terra costs 7600 euros for no damn reason. That was enough to push me to get grand seikos.
Good Grand Seiko watches cost similar or more. Basic 3 hand manual wind grand Seiko in leather straps cost 5k euros. A nice grand Seiko with the updated movement costs 10k euros
Most people would like to see the day when Omega can out sell Rolex. How can they do that without raising prices? Also, any watch brand that has improved the quality of their brand across the board should raise the prices according to the market. Some people approach Omega like this: "they make a great product and if they price it at a deal I (might) buy one". Folks want the brand to bribe them into buying one instead of just saying there's a ton of quality and iconic status of some of the designs so it's still a fair deal.
@@hammalamiri12 Depends on the model obviously, but cheaper Spring Drive models (5-6k Euro) offer more value for money than say a Seamaster or Aqua Terra. The updated movements aren't more accurate, they are just smaller/thinner.
The value proposition of GS watches beyond 8k Euro is somewhat questionable. You don't really get that much more for your money than with cheaper models, with few exceptions.
@@miabeatz80Many would like to see the day when Omega out sells Rolex? You have a better chance of Hell freezing over
@@miabeatz80Most people want to see the day when Omega out sells Rolex? You have a better chance of hell freezing over
Around 2020 or so I went looking to buy a JLC Reverso Quartz watch, on my relatively modest Canadian public servant's salary. I believe there was an option for $5700.00 CAD and a slightly larger version for around 6K CAD. I thought those would be excellent choices, and a reasonable price for what I was looking at. COVID happened and I had to take a step back from going off on vacation to check out the watch, and I lost sight of that particular goal. I went back a few years later to finally get that watch of my dreams and found it was now $9600.00 CAD. I've never considered JLC a serious watch company since, no matter how beloved they are, or how great their watches can be. That's a simply absurd pricing model.
Yea, in the same boat. Their pricing recently since COVID has not reflected the impression we used to have about them. It feels like they are trying to go upmarket or something.
@shortBP520 I think that's it. They want to compete at a level which the consumer isn't going to see them at. I can't imagine it's working.
@@MisterKnightly I LOVE jlc but I’m waiting for them to realize that their new strategy isn’t working well and calm down on raising their prices haha
@shortBP520 I really hope they do. I'd love a simple, quartz reverso. But not for 9500.00 CAD
Ooh I do like the Autavia but you are right. Its not worth it new. Second hand though... 😁 I have a friend who has a rule... When buying watches anything in plastic you buy new and anything in steel you buy secondhand. Let another man take the hit. Hope you have a fantastic weekend Mike!
Casio MR-G, which are starting to approach $10k for exotic titanium and mythical finishing with proper metal enclosures - still though, having resin shock absorbers inside, digital LCD displays and ICs from a mass production electronics company. Casio, like other watch companies, are also looking for their whales.
Some of those higher level G-Shocks are damn impressive though in hand. I bought an GMWB5000D-1 last night on sale, and I thought I paid too much for a Casio, and that's entry level premium square 🤣
Having said that, pricey G-Shocks at least get us thinking about what a luxury watch actually is.
I love Casio but I never understood those. Even with the materials and finishing, they’re way too overpriced. A Citizen Forza uses titanium but they’re priced way below 1k
@@itsmike3393 That Citizen doesn't compare. Not even close. Those Casios are definitely overpriced though.
When I graduated high school in the mid 2000’s, a speedmaster pro was around $3000-4000. It’s essentially doubled and nothing much has changed
Of course something has changed. Inflation. Nothing cost today what it cost 20(!) years ago. A honda civic new in 2005 started at $13,260USD, A 2025 Civic new starts at $24,250.
The movement was updated in 2021 and the bracelet got a better clasp.... That's it
Money "costs" less 🙂 Remember the time, just believe me...
Nor, has that much changed in cars. However the average price of a car in the United States is now $47,000. Yes, obviously you can get cars much cheaper than that, however that does not change the average price. I am sure many will say the technology has changed etc has changed blah blah blah. Ultimately not aligned with the increase of the price of an average car now.
@@pb12echoExplain inflation
All new entrants into the world of watches should be made to watch your uploads Mike, prior to making their first purchase. The watch market needs someone that can be trusted to offer an unbiased, sensible opinion that takes the emotion out of the purchase making decision. You're the man for that. Points off this week for not using the term "strap monster". 😛
Kind of you. Just sharing a perspective to add to the conversation 😃
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Indeed. Where your opinion carries more weight than others, is that you’re not selling anything other than that.
I do hope you resist the temptation for mugs, tee shirts & hats in the links below!
Lol. 😂I garuantee I won't ever take money or watches from a brand.
Coffee mugs are also out of the question since I don't drink coffee.
But a line of generic nato straps with my logo on them? hmmm 😂
I'm here for that😊
I sold my speedy last year, it no longer sparked joy and was due a service. I looked into servicing before selling. Omega wanted £500 and to keep the watch for 6 months. When I said that this seemed a bit excessive, the boutique rep suggested I buy another Omega to wear in the interim (with a straight face, she wasn't joking). I sold it for a grand more than I paid, which is mental. Omega apparently have moved into the aspirational segment, completely detached from reality. Won't be buying another.
@@MrShoryuken1 wow, the market is out of control
This is crazy!
Hi all
Thanks so much for the support and for enjoying the video.
Two points of note:
1. For the reverso I used video for the monoface tribute while referencing also the price for the monoface classic. That could be a little confusing. Apologies.
2. JLC prices vary wildly from country to country and it’s not just down to exchange rates. In the euro zone alone the monoface tribute has close to 800 usd spread. So depending on where you live in the world you could be paying anything between 8.400 usd to 10.900 usd for the new tribute. (I did add a note about this in the video)
Although the new tribute released recently is a better proposition than some of the previous models, it’s still on the high side in my opinion. I would guess that this was “as low” as JLC felt they could go. Even at close to 9.000 in the US market I still think it’s too much (despite hand bevelled movement components - which like I said in the video are hidden behind a steel case back).
Cheers
JLC just introduced a smaller (more close to the original) sized Reverso, which you can consider the new entry model, below 10k.. your point still valid, though
Still too high for my taste!
Yeah - The new model seem to be an attempt to at least get to a better value offering. I have to give them that. It's still expensive but a step in the right direction 😃
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch But how big or small a step? How much room between the thumb and forefinger?
Waiting on my 1st Cartier(a Francaise) and looking forward to it! But Mike, you are very spot on about the high cost of luxury watch brands raising prices because they can.....makes no sense! FWIW,you're still the best when it comes to explaining the business end of luxury watches!
One thing that annoys me about Oris is that they're seemingly using their new clasps with on-the-fly micro-adjustments to upsell you to their expensive in-house movement models, as if their Sellita-based models weren't already expensive enough to accommodate that feature. Then you have the Pro Pilot X. An interesting design for sure, but €4300 for a watch with a very plain dial with printed indices and clasp with no micro-adjusts whatsoever? That quite steep, especially since most people probably aren't willing to pay Tudor money for an Oris.
When I started to obses about watches the oris kermit was launched, at a blind guess I deemed it to be expensive but adviable to buy, then I saw the price and laugh for the absurdity.
@@ThatGuyUpThere They tank used, so you can get them with quite the discount barely used. Used price? Worth it but not MSRP.
You're by far my fav 'watch related' channel on youtube, appreciate all the videos
Thanks for watching 😃
I would argue that Lange is actually exceptionally good value if you are looking for that type of watch. Just buy them on the secondary market and there you go, a world class complicated watch for half, or even a third of the cost of a similar Patek.
The G-Shock Paradox: Some of the best watch value at $100, then head-scratchingly expensive for the premium end pieces.
They are best appreciated as pop art pieces or 'experiments' that force us to question what luxury watches actually are!😁
@@lamentate07 i like that
To which I'd add, there is not much difference in appearance, especially to a non-watch nerd - which most people are - between a high-end, very expensive G, and a "normal" one..
I was offered a discount on an Omega Worldtimer at AD, then another one on the phone after I left. Says it all and actually the experience tilted me away from a tight decision. The price collapse on the secondary market is also very illuminating.
AD's need to get rid of stock that's not moving. Lot's of watches look great but they gather dust, so a discount is a good way to motivate a buyer 😃
The NTTD is worth 7.2K USD with bracelet and full kit, as new. One of the best watches I own. The weight and case height makes it wear very different from a standard Seamaster 300. It could easily be my only watch.
The best watch channel on YT - thanks Mike for all your efforts.
The more I watch these vids, the more I like my Traska, Unimatic, Baltic and Formex watches. And my €3400 GMT SBGN003 Grand Seiko.
Based on the Oris promo video, I’m concerned that the parts in their in-house movements are a touch oversized.
😂😂😂
There are a few people, not that many, but apparently enough, who enjoy paying full price for a watch at a boutique, at an AD. I personally would love to swan into a store and pay full price for an expensive watch, for the sake of developing a memory of extravagance, as silly as that sounds.
"So I said to Hemingway, I said, Ernie, I don't have to outrun the bulls at Pamplona, I just have to outrun you, you son of a gun."
That's what a lot of watch collectors like to think when they get a watch, that it's the first step in some scheme or adventure. And nowhere in that fantasy is there a fluorescent light lit basement filled with folding tables that are covered with watches in ZipLoc bags.
But I do agree with you that some of these watches aren't worth the extra squeeze. But maybe, a few are? I'll let you know after my safari.
“And nowhere in that fantasy is there a fluorescent lit basement filled with folding tables that are covered with watches in ZipLoc bags.” 😂
Believe it or not there are some watches that are cheaper at the AD point of sale than the "basement" scenario. I bought an Omega Ed White, admittedly after a year's wait, and just before a dramatic price rise, for far less than the grey market prices. Plus you get the "memory of extravagence" hero status in the boutique. Nice turn of phrase there btw.
I got my Divers 65 few months before the worldwide lockdown. It costed just slightly more than a thousand dollars. Right now, I go to any retailer and the display prices are more than double of it. Yes, all Oris products are overpriced for a brand known to be 'affordable luxury'
Cracking good video mate. I'm on the fence between a 36mm oyster perpetual and an orient bino. 🤷
Thanks for watching and for the kind words 😃😃
Since we're talking about exceeding 5k as a price point. I have been looking at the Rolex explorer 36mm, would you consider this a reasonably priced watch at almost 7 thousand US? Or is there a much better alternative (I know omega aqua terra is around the same price).
I own the Seamaster NTTD and absolutely love it, but I bought it new at €7500 and not the €11.100 retail.
Like you, I love the Seamaster 300 NTTD and would love one however, £9.5k retail is beyond insanity. Nudging us in the direction of the secondary market is certainly sound advice. Just a matter of finding a good one from a trusted source - that’s the challenge. Love your reviews.
Fair priced watches: Mido, Certina, Hamilton, Rado, Longines, some Omega, CW, Tissot, Baume et Mercier, Tudor, most Nomos, Stowa, and a lot of other brands from Germany.
Can agree on all. I'll add my 2 cents.
Bell & Ross i actually really like, but, would make this list too.
Panerai. I really like the white dial Submersible in 42mm. Had a look at one to judge if it'll work on my 7" wrist and check the quality. Overall, felt good and nice UNTIL I got to the bezel. I've read online how it is "disappointing". I checked the white dial and another black to make sure it wasn't just the one example I had. Yeah, it's a loose and cheap feeling bezel action. Totally not worth near a $10k price, and I Panerai's are at least $3-4k overpriced, already. And, Panerai is known for dive watches, too. And to see a critical dive component which will easily be interacted with be so bad is a real shame.
Note, the 44mm version feels a lot better in the bezel. And, it's not that much more $$ to the 42mm. But, still not close to being near $10k retail.
Bell & Ross are essentially fashion watches. Even the CEO pretty much admits that. They have some interesting designs though, no doubt, but their prices have gone through the roof lately, and they are basically like cheap Hublots in 2024.
My "won the lottery" grail watch is Bovet Virtuoso III. Never gonna happen but I did buy a 1947 Bovet Landeron 51 that was recently serviced. I visited the Omega boutique in LA and the sales guy did the hard sale with 0% financing and I was actually tempted but am saving up for a trip to Paris to buy a Cuervo Y Sobrinos Chrono. The Omega guy actually knew the brand and had visited the original boutique in Havana. Great video!
Not often a Bovet lover comes by. good choice 😀
Again your detailed insights, spot on critics and all in that brutal honesty, straight in the face, it’s such a pleasure watching your videos and taking it all in. 😊 Now about the Blancpain Swatch, I have the perfect storm version, black with a black Artem sailcloth strap. It’s magical, it really is. Like what you explained in another video about the balance and how a strap or bracelet subtracts or adds, exactly that is how the Artem strap adds to the Blancpain Swatch. But…. With a 140$ Artem strap on the 360$ plastic watch, it is indeed WAY overpriced. 😊
Yet, another superior video. I love the honesty and clarity along with reasoning. I took your advice from previous videos and again you mentioned it in this video as well, to try some models from 2ndary market. I just had my Santos Blue dial (almost new) for almost 25% less. and boy I love it... it wears well and pleasing to look at. Keep up the good work. happy to watch you videos.
I appreciate that, thanks 😃
An arbitrary rule I used to have was that a well-made steel tool watch from an Omega-tier brand should cost 1 or 2 months' salary for an average office worker in a developed country, and a gold time-only dress watch from a brand like JLC, 3 months' salary. Alas, those days are LONG behind us.
Good job. I actually loved the look of the Lange and Sohn you showed in this video, but that price is over the top.
Omega has lost their frigging minds with the prices. I guess Omega is paying through the nose for that awful marketing and brand ambassadors that don't give 2 shits about the brand. So they're gonna milk the customer for every cent possible. It won't be long before the Speedmaster is 10k or more
I remember in 2017 the salesman begging me to buy moonwatch at steep discount around 4800$
Now the watch is 8000$ with 0 discount 🤣
@@mohnnadmercedes8246begging? Ok
@@mohnnadmercedes8246 don't know where you live, but speedmasters are 20% off in the USA, easy to find
Speedmaster is cheaper than an elpimero or navitimer……and only a few hundred £££ more expensive than a TAG Monaco. id say its competatively priced in comparison.
@@mohnnadmercedes8246yes, buyt youve had 8 years of inflation which cumulatively is over 24%, a new movement and model launched since then with a far better bracelet too.
Great call on the Swatch 50 Fathoms. I waited for ages for the black one to come into stock, finally got my hands on one, it felt cheap and the 12 o'clock marker was on the piss. Politely handed it back and walked out the store.
I also feel Panerai is at the root of Richemont's price hikes across all the brands. When they saw how much people would pay for that level of movement and finishing, then threw in a B&M "in-house" movement and saw it sell for a jacked up price, by comparison JLC, IWC, even Lange were underpriced in their eyes.
Hi Mike,
If you don't mind can you share how much discount you got on the omega seamaster 300M no time to die??
You can get them full set in great condition for at $6500 or less with the bracelet second hand, at about $6000 without the bracelet.
Don't remember exactly but I think I got it about 30% off through a grey dealer 😃
The value of luxury goods has very little to do with its components or capabilities and everything to do with perceived demand.
not incorrect
Stick w/ steel,precious metals & baggets are the rippoff
Different subject - would you do a review of Ressence? The Type 8 intrigues me. I know that Sinn made an oil filled diver - just curious about your thoughts.
Bit of a fan of ressence, but I lean more to trilobe who do a very similar thing 😃
There's a lot of thought and analysis in your videos, which are appreciated and a big reason I enjoy your channel. It seems like you're trying to pick up the pace a bit in this particular video, quicker speech and quicker cuts. I know that works for some channels and some content, but I don't think it's the best match for your thoughtful style and content. I prefer the previous pacing. Regardless, keep up the great work!
Thanks for watching. I try to balance the pacing - These list videos do tend to fly a bit faster as there is less to "digest", but my general intent is not to speed things up. Cheers 😃
totally agree on the Hublot classic fusion. Lolz wonder what is the actually margin they have when charging that much for a SW-300 movement?
It's one of the highest is my guess 😀😀
Great video, as ever. Can’t argue with most of this and it boils down to - when in doubt, buy a Longines! I have a 38mm blue teak dial Aqua Terra and a 39.5mm blue dial Planet Ocean. I love them both but it is a bit crazy that both increased by £1,000 in 12 months after I bought them. JLC have lost their minds. I like Cartier but would only ever buy a quartz version which I think are good value whereas the automatic versions are not. I think the Speedmaster Pro sapphire is now overpriced - it shouldn’t cost £1K more than the hesalite version which, after all, is the real icon.
And THIS is why we live in a very good world of microbrands and smaller production companies. Blindfolded, you wouldnt be able to tell the difference. Eyes wide open, they are way more interesting to look at for a feaction of the price.
Agree! Just received my Direnzo Eclipse in white dial and I can’t believe the quality for under 1k. A hand written thank you from the designer who is obviously passionate about his product makes it that much better for me.
@@gavinj01just checked them out. On the wishlist it goes lol
I agree completely. There are a lot of great watches at attractive prices which do not reflect huge marketing budgets and just paying a lot more for the name.
So I really want a Panerai as my father is from Florence - which would you suggest (looking at new and hoping to buy in Florence too).
They're nice watches. Don't get me wrong. They're just really pricey considering how much they try to optimise on specs and details 😃
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Well crap.
Didn't answer your question. Sorry - PAM1314 is a nice one. The 42mm submersible is also a personal favorite of mine.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Thanks Mike. I was actually already looking at that one too as well as the 1404.
What was the name of the Lange alternative? I'm old and my hearing is starting to go south.
Thanks for another great video @Mike.thiswatchthatwatch .What are your thoughts on the new Moser retrograde pioneer and pricing , cheers
Lange is nice but overpriced for what they intrinsically are - its seems driven by labour costs for "double assembly". Any suggestions of alternatives to the ALS Datograph?
Glashutte Original Pano. ALS and Glashutte Original workers probably go to the safe cafes for lunch as they are right next door to each other. IMO Glashutte is almost as well made and finished as ALS for a fraction of the cost and because they are under appreciated they can be very good value in the used market.
Mike, Superb presentation as always. Thank you for your well researched videos.
Very welcome 😃
Great review Mike. I'd be interested in seeing a review of the Bremont Broadsword. A lot of people compare it to Hamilton field watches but I tried one on at the AD and it was definitely in a different league than Hamilton.
Yep prices are insane. I understand luxury goods are suppose to be expansive, but these brands went a tad over. Especially the same watch can be had on the used for way less.
Putting a halt on my collection. Have more than I could wear.
Pretty spot on however I’d challenge two of these.
For sure the Oris pro pilot. A titanium watch with an in-house 5 day power reserve 10 yr warranty movement is absolutely unheard of at any price point. And $3-4k is super fair value.
2nd if the conversation is about value for the money and not value retention then Lange dials, cases and movements for the price are at least fair. Put a 1815 next to the new steel AP code for 30k and it’s a joke, the AP is just sad by comparison.
Love the video and I must agree, lot of watches are way overpriced. That is why, I go for the older models from IWC, like the pilot’s IW387802 bought for € 5000 with including a 2024 full service from IWC including new strap ( bought at Zeitauktion in Germany)Also did this with JLC, Panerai and Roger Dubois. There are some great deal out there, with great movement, because lately the Richmond group is using a lot of the same movement in IWC, Cartier, Panerai( the caliber P900🤪), with is also available in a Baume & Mercier that cost € 3000. In the other brands is cost more then twice that or even more.
Another solid video. Some of the only ones I watch without skimming. I particularly like the Backstreet Boy clip. It had me singing instantly.
You caught the backstreet boys? Then you were clearly paying attention 😃
I, as very often, totally agree with you. But guess what: I recently bought a Hublot CF Chrono instead of a Rolex Ex I. And I own the SMP300 007 NTTD titanium! I must be crazy, but I like both watches very much. But to be fair, I bought both CPO for prices far below the list prices. 😉
Cheers! How about Micro overpricing (or not) episode? Ming at 9k, Formex at 4, Anordaine etc
Generally I don't think those brands overprice nearly as much as the more established brands. Their margins are slimmer, their costs are likely higher (because they don't control production and don't have the volumes).
AnOrdain as an example are not unfairly priced. They hand enamel dials, which is a ridiculously finnicky process that is slow and prone to error. The number of dials they make per day per employee can probably be counted on two hands. The cost of making that is super high. Whether it's a sustainable business model is another question... 😃
Like you have said in a previous video there is a lot going on in the sub £2k ($2.5k) bracket… and some really nice stuff at under $700 from micro brands. The higher up the tree you climb the more things seem to cost. I like this though it gives me something to work towards and aspire to… although I also know some watch brands are just beyond me ever being to own despite their beauty. As cost increases and a watch becomes (to most people) an almost unobtainable dream does value for money become less relevant? Another great video Mike, a very insightful and interesting analysis. I think both my watches so far are great value for money… the IWC Pilot XX and my Miyota 9075 driven Traska Venturer… for one of the former I could have had 8 of the other… but I love them both and that gives them their value… to me 😊
IWC and Traska? Good choices. IF you watch enough of my vids you'll know the Mark XX is a personal favorite 😃
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I have watched quite I few and I know you like them. Thanks for the videos Mike it is refreshing to see videos with an honest and balanced view. You always qualify your opinions clearly and remind people to have their own… haters going to hate I suppose… thanks again for the great videos.
I must be a special kind of crazy but i do care if my movements are finished well even when it's in a closed caseback.
I like to paint miniatures and I'll paint sections that I know will be closed off and will never see the light of day again. I just enjoy knowing that everything is "complete"
To each their own. I would never buy a watch without a display case back at almost any price point. I dont use watches as tools, so being able to see what I paid for is of utmost importance to me. 30k for a Rolex and you cant even see the movement that cost more than my car? No thanx.
Fair perspective. For me it's kind of redundant but on the other hand, opening something up and seeing a bog standard machine blasted movement would be a disappointment 😃
What are your thoughts on the Breitling Navitimer 41mm?
Like it. Especially the light blue dial 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I own the sunburst green dial 41mm
The Omega Gold / TT pricing was probably the biggest eyebrow raise.
Yup. More expensive than a gold / tt Daytona depending on the model.... If they have a dream of getting the steel models to Rolex levels my head will explode. 😃
Almost all brands are going crazy with the retail pricing. It’s less about volume and more about pushing product to a shrinking core audience. The issue is that I think a lot of these pricing models came out of the inflated hype era and there are going to be serious issues for many brands.
Volume is gone. It's price premiums all the way unfortunately 😀
Great video, thank you. Can I ask 904L, why do you find no value in this?
I really enjoy your videos.
Cheers
The properties are different and Rolex say they use it because it polishes better and has more of a white gold look to it. IT's probably true, but I just can't tell and I've seen other brands 904L that in no way blew me away. So I don't dispute the fact of what is materially different about it or the implications of what it allows a watchmaker to do, but on a day to day I really can't tell and then I question if it's worth the premium. 😀😀
I always look forward to your take on watches. Value is important to the process of buying a watch, but sometimes we pay up if that's the only option to scratch the itch. My next watch purchase will be in February when I will be in Tokyo. It's my first time there, but I hear they have a robust watch market. I will look at a number of watches that interest me, but bringing home a Japanese brand watch would make me happy. I already have a GS, but I am attracted to the Kurono Tokyo Grand Akane. Love their dials.
I'm happy with my Omega SM 300 M Pro (current Model since 2018)
I got my for a bit over 4 k and the only thing that disappointed my was the clasp which was replaces twice (by the dealer on guarantee).
Would love to know your opinion on smaller more start up type watch companies like the gower watch company. I will be purchasing their new smaller dial broughton when its released early next year!
I thought this was going to be one of those fake videos where the answer ends up being “any watch you don’t love is overpriced” etc etc. Great to see a non-clickbait video
Happy to hear it - I do go for eye catching thumbnails but I prioritise that they actually match the contents of the video 😃
Dare I say G-Shock MRG-B5000 titanium square at $3500 yet I still want one. Not sure I could ever actually pull the trigger though since I already have the ~$450 steel version.
The new monoface tribute (blue or white dials) they just launched my goodness they are gorgeous. My heart wants to pull the trigger but my mind reminds me that they are way overpriced: time only, steel case, steel polished indices (not even white gold!), and the cal.822 which has been around for what 3 decades? Power reserve is also under 2 days. What a pity , in Italy it’s priced at almost 9k eur. I guess I have to wait 3 years and hopefully find one more in line with what I’d be willing to pay. For now I will enjoy my TT1932 which feels a it long on my 7in flat wrist but do I really want to sell the TT1931 in steel for this?
I’ve just bought a new Oris Divers 65 with the 400-2 caliber, on bracelet: perfect(ly boring) for me! I paid a very reasonable €2250 ($2450) for it at an AD in the Netherlands instead of the listed €3600 ($3950): I feel lucky now!
re: pricing and sizes. Some brands don't charge less for smaller sizes such as Omega. For the Aqua Terra, the larger size even has a better movement, yet the 38mm with the 8800 caliber is the exact same price. Is there any justification for this other than 'just because'?
Omega has wierd pricing. It's like they don't look at what one thing is selling for when they launch a new model
hi
im a hobby wach bilder.(i ordre my parts online and put them together)
whats your thoughts on home make watches?
On Panerai you mentioned how the small upgrades cost a lot when you move up from the base models.
Are you aware of the "downgrades" recent base models have had?
Snap on caseback reducing WR to 100m, ordinary spring bars instead of the nice screwed ones, there may be more too.
I am. Also how they downgraded the movements - Removing hacking seconds, reducing finishing so finishing is limited to visible areas of the movement. It's been a race to the bottom to save money 😃
Hi Mike: very good analysis as always 👍. That's why I mainly collect watches between 1300$ and 3500$ and have set a limit of max. 4000$. There is one exception, the GO PanomaticLunar. I might have paid the list price for it. Fortunately, I was able to get it well under list at an AD. Okay, it was still over my limit, so I had to give up two or three watches on my list. But the GO was worth it to me ❤.
Sometimes I like to imagine how many high fives and a promotion the guy/gal received for bringing “bio-ceramic” to the board meeting 😂
I like my swatch fifty fathoms so much I bought a second one
I never wear my moonswatches-they feel too cheap-and I have the steel speedmaster.
The swatch collab straps are what are real crap. I put them all on rubber.
I'm weird but I love my Blancpain x Swatch... Bright yellow with black Nato/yellow stripe. Keeps time well. More ppl comment on it than with my more sedate and probably better watches. But in general, the "better options" in this video are way out of my price point and interest. The only one of these I own is the CW titanium. It's My favorite of my 55+ watch collection. But, like many say, "but what YOU like". Mike, I love almost all your commentaries and rarely miss one of them"😊
😂😂😂😂😂
@@Feldos52I totally agree with the sentiment of buying what you like.
The Blancpain x Swatch isn’t my cup of tea aesthetically speaking, so for me it’s a very simple decision - I won’t be buying one.
If I did like the watch, there’s still one sticking point for me, and that is the fact that the movement can’t be serviced and they wear out after a few years of use.
If you’re wearing it occasionally, it could last a long time, but if you wear it daily then you’ll be lucky to get 5 years out of it, after which it’s dead.
The idea of a disposable mechanical watch doesn’t appeal to me. I tend to grow more attached over time to the watches I like and wear, so the idea of it wearing out would really bother me.
I appreciate that putting a more traditionally built, serviceable watch movement like an ETA or Sellita would push up the price significantly, though.
@@mercuriall2810 I don't disagree with anything you said. For me, I rotate between about 35-40 of my watches and there are only a few that get worn more than once a month. I think I've got "a touch" of ADHD. Also, I'm 72 years old so I'm more concerned about my longevity than that of the watch. It will be more likely become an estate sale item than it will get passed down to one of my kids. Just as aside, I'm a very OCD surgeon. None of the watches I have purchased new have a scratch on them...seriously. I know it will happen some day...lol. Anyway, nice chatting with you.
How about Chopard, is it overpriced also or it is worth the value
I fell for the Panerai and Hublot hype over 10 years ago....Used to have 5 different pams and 2 Hublots (Ice Bang and Big Bang) although most of them looks pretty much the same... finally got rid of them since their prices didnt retain much value.
This remembers me the legend of Robin Hood and Prince John.
These are undoubtedly John Lackland's watches.
As you previously said JLC has raised the price of their watches just BECAUSE. Generally they didn't do any special upgrades to justify their current price points.
As what concerns Panerai they should be very careful. They call in-house movements to things we know that they aren't.
They lost hit so they should be more humble.
The all story built about their heritage is mostly a story and not History.
I own a Panerai Luminor for more than ten years. I like it, but I don't rush for it so often. The movement inside is a common 7750. I have other watches with this movement and better finished, one of them is a Hanhart Pioneer II, a much lovelier watch.
Absolutely on spot. Thanks.
Cheers Mike.
Great video. I was wondering if a Speedmaster new old stock with a Valjoux movement is worth 3300 bucks ... We can get it at the grey market. I think the more I see videos, the more I can recognize the magic of a Speedmaster whatever the topic is.
I always loved the Bremont H1 Fury in blue but £5995 is/was a joke & I'd never pay that for a Bremont however in this year's Jan sales there were some brilliant deals on new watches. One such deal was 45% off retail for the aforementioned piece & then with a subscription-based 48hr promotion of another 10% off the sale price. Voila - a new Fury for under £3k was mine....now that's a bit more like it!
I also bought the steel/gold bracelet SMP 300 with black dial in a similar deal £11600 at the time (now £11,900) was way too much imho - 20% off list followed by another 20% off the sale price. New two-tone Omega for £7400...not bad!
Maybe I'm a noob, but Grand Seiko's pricing their high-beat in the same category as a Spring drive always seems like a huge error. If I can go for a spring drive with an interesting dial, the high-beat simply cannot compare (unless servicing is the main concern, which could be slightly cheaper with a high beat).
You can't service a Spring Drive. They replace the movement.
Can you elaborate on disregarding 904L stainless steel? I don't know much about it but assumed it's something great I'm missing out on
Also you WAY elaborated on my earlier question about Oris haha thank you very much
It's just marketing BS. 904L is a cheap industrial grade stainless steel. The only advantage is that it polishes better than 316.
Its lower in carbon and other impurities. Used industrially where corrosion is a factor such as continuous submersion in salt waters. Benefits for watch users is no need to rinse off your watch with freshwater.
@@CTizer hahaha I guess that comes in handy for anyone who regularly sails on their watch
904L is "rolex steel" because they're almost the only ones that use it. It's a slightly different alloy. Mainly it should corrode less and polish better. Real world benefits are minimal to none 😃
I’d love to see your take on the best values in the secondary market.
The problem with your review of the big pilot 43 is that it has a quick exchange system that includes one of the best bracelets in the business. So, the big pilot on strap has way more potential features than you mentioned, even if you have to pay more for them.
Yup - It's a bracelet from a company called brogioli. Same people that make the bracelet for the Lange Odysseus (and same quick adjust mechanism) 😉
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Yes, it's very good. IWC was smart to partner with them.
Seeing the Japanese Mechs (Gundams?) I thoguht of a question fitting the theme of overpriced things. Do you think Warhammer 40k models are overpriced? And also, what do you think of the Tau with the Japanese like Mechs like the fighting armor of Commander Farsight?
Lol. Warhammer pricing is not my forté. Gundam only (and the occasional collectors edition Transformers) 😃
10:55 I would really like a video about what watches tank the most in price in the secondary market though. Would be really interesting
I offer the TAG Heuer Monaco Special edition with a Calibre 11, £8150 for a SW300 with module on top! Perhaps around £4.5K for a SW300 in grade 2 Titanium hit the spot?
I’m subscribed, I think your content and discussion points are brilliant!
Thanks and welcome aboard. Appreciated the support 😀😀
Thanking for the feedback on watch prices. I would put my watch buying budget at $2500 or less currently.
1:00 50 hours ain’t bad.. there’s Patek’s and AP’s that come with less for much more money. Technically all luxury watches are incredibly overpriced considering a Casio can do the job better for $30.
G-Shock's MR-G line. At the moment it starts at £2500 on their website, the most expensive is £5700. For a G-Shock. 🤯
The MR-G is far rarer and much more expensive to manufacture than a Submariner. The G-Shock multi-motor units are, by far, the most complex watch movements ever manufactured.
Totally agree re the Oris. I can't imagine who is paying those prices for the in-house movement. I purchased a box and papers 43mm Aquis date on Ebay for $750 and love it!
That entry level Hublot Classic fusion is actually really well-made. The case finishing is good, and the dial is too. I can find grey models under $6,000. I can see buying that over many other brands. I do not care about the movement.
No, I wish Hublot offered that watch in Quartz for $5,000. I would buy it immediately. I love Quartz. I hate in house movements.
What currency are you referring to?
Thanks!
Thank you so very much. That's really appreciated ❤️❤️❤️
I love watches, but I don't like throwing my money down the drain. Especially not when companies speculate on the stupidity of their buyers. This year I bought 2 watches from Longines. The watches here are still really well priced. The quality matches the price perfectly.
greeds BM
Excellent video, Mike. Was expecting the Blancpain FF on the list, maybe came as close 11th.
The list is longer than ten.... 😂
JLC is well-priced in the secondary market, especially the Reversos, which actually appreciate after the first resale. Steel, not gold. Unfortunately their best designs in recent years (Grand Date, Grand Taille) are also out of production.