When the boat was lifted to remove the keel and with the matrix already broken away from the hull in the area of the keel, the load would have been taken by the matrix in areas that were still attached as the unattached hull area flexed by bearing the weight of the keel. The cracking that you were hearing was most likely from those areas of the matrix that were previously still bonded to the hull. Based on my past experience, your damaged area has now become larger. This may be a good thing since those new areas were likely bonded similarly to those areas initially broken. In other words, not bonded properly. IF (and it's a big IF) the boat gets fixed, I'd also say that the matrix would need to be completely removed by breaking it out in pieces and a new matrix grid supplied from the manufacturer would be bonded in. All in all, I would start to plan for a very, very long repair time. Assuming repairable, I'd be inclined to spend extensive time costal sailing to stress the repair to ensure that it was solidly done. For me, that precludes any Atlantic crossing for this boat until proven that the repairs are as good as or better than new. On another note, I'd highly recommend to not continue to be emotionally attached to this boat. It is just a boat and can be replaced. Becoming emotionally attached may cloud and influence your decision making. Best of luck to you both.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thought so extensively! We are investigating any further damage and share your option that the boat needs to be test sailed for some time! Thanks for your wishes!
@michaellahrkamp9755 I'm curious as to why you recommend breaking up the grid? Have you seen this commonly done? In situations where the bond is compromised, the grid can be investigated in-place for delamination inside the existing floors and stringers. After problem areas are identified, those areas can receive extra remediation. The remainder of the grid can be rebonded to the hull with new fiberglass and epoxy. Breaking up the existing grid seems like overkill.
Thanks guys - it's very nice to hear this from you! So many have been pointing out your videos and the great job you did. And of course we watched them and it helped us a lot to understand this topic a bit more! 😊
Good to see that the team works hand in glove...it's difficult not to lose hope in this energy draining time...but it is great how you stick together and comfort each other😊
These modern boats with a short, deep keel that is attached to the hull with bolts on a narrow surface, have caused serious problems for many boats - up to and including the complete loss of the keel on the high seas! In addition, this boat also has a keel bomb that protrudes forward beyond the keel, where all sorts of things can get caught and stuck.... I wouldn't go on a long ocean voyage with it!
I am so sorry to see you guys like this . I’m pretty sure once it’s been grounded back and re-fibreglass and not glued the boat will be stronger than ever would’ve been from knew. Yes it’s going to take time and effort and money but you’re gonna have a better boat at the end. Sending my best wishes
you both need hugs!! so very sorry this has happened ! It is a helpless feeling. soon you will have answeres and can start healing both the boat and yourselves.
The main problem here is design of this boat kill should be mounted direct to the hull , should be mounted to the stump onf the hull ,like Catalina and other brands making , only Benetau and others chip brands making this mistake , this is large boat and allways will be damger to sail this boat , if you hit something under water boat will sunk in few minutes, walk away from this boat all together, get insurance money and never look back
Don't be depressed, you are learning something new everyday and you are on the hard standing learning it. It is a challenge with a potential good ending, you will have a better boat that has been surveyed not once but three times by two independant surveyors. Smile 🙂
Thanks for being here with us and your uplifting words 😌 sometimes it helps hearing that from somebody else .. we are very lucky and happy that our insurance has been supportive and for the expertise of the surveyors. We’ll definitely learn even more..
It is tough to watch this; I can only imagine how much tougher it is for you two to actually live it... I hope it all works out and you can resume your travels.
Congratulations on the progress. One of the first things I was told when I started sailing is that the worst enemy of a sailor is a schedule. And it is so true. You have to be ready to adapt to changing conditions and plans come and go. Look at the positive side. After all this ordeal is over, you will have a stronger boat, and you will have learnt a lot about your boat and repair processes. You and your boat will be stronger. Crossing the Atlantic is only ONE of many possible things you can do. So once your boat is repaired, you can revisit the options. And... there's always next year!
Thank you for your comment and the encouraging words. We absolutely agree with you - but it's not always easy for us during the process. We have and will continue to learn so much and that is also worth so much. And we're slowly getting to the point where we're looking forward to afterwards and seeing how we can continue in the best possible way. Luckily, the crossing is not running away from us. 🙂
Hi guys, there is no need to go with the ARC. Avoid to be be disappointed on this. We didn´t do it when we made our first Atlantic crossing, and today we don´t do it again. Take all the time the repairs will need. And then go on step by step. You never now, sometimes a huge problem finally ends up in a surprising result you never did expect. Martin and Anke crossing fingers
Hi Anke and Martin, Thank you very much for your comment! In the meantime, the disappointment has settled somewhat and we are looking more positively to the future. We also hope that in the end it will turn out to have had a positive purpose. Did it mean that you are currently on your way across the Atlantic? If so, we wish you a safe crossing and fair winds! Best, Pat & Frankie
Crossing the Atlantic is our idea, but unluckily we are stuck in Garachico a one hour busride from your place. Engine problems. 😂 You can ask your surveyour R. H. He knows about.
Good luck! It looks as though you are in the hands of professionals who know what they are doing and you'll be able to have an effective repair and a stronger boat.
Sorry for what you guys are going through. We recently completed a two year rebuild on our boat and it was tough on us to stop cruising for that long. We are now out sailing again and are starting to enjoy some of the benefits of our efforts. Life is much happier now! Try your best to make the correct decision for yourselves on whether rebuilding this boat is the best path for you. One of the most important parts of answering that question is whether this is the boat that fits your needs the best once the work is completed since no amount of work will change the basic design of the boat. If you decide to proceed then be prepared for a lot of work and the process taking longer than expected. You will learn a lot about more about the structure of your boat than most sailors. If the work is done correctly your boat can be far stronger than she was when new. Don't be afraid to add some significant weight to the hull as you rebuild this highly stressed part on your boat. You never want to be looking at a job like this ever again and the confidence that your boat is safe is very important as well! When dealing with adhesives including caulkings, most will soften with the application of heat. A paint stripper gun can be useful, just be careful not to overheat gelcoated surfaces or the gelcoat will be damaged. We send our best to you. J&J
Hi you two! We are so happy for you that you are enjoying the time on the water again! I could really visualise it, how it must look & feel after that amount of time spend on repairs or making the boat better 🙂 Thanks for your words, we have much time for thinking and try to see the positive and also reconsider what fits us and what feels good. As for now we are going with the process.. 😉 All the best to you too!
Hi guys. You are doing an amazing job of staying positive. The keel came off better than I expected. Now it's up to the surveyors! Has the builder gave you any support or direction of any kind? Another positive is you are having decent weather for getting things ready. Don't let the few negative comments get you down as most are supporting you and your decisions. I'm eager to hear when it's done how the insurance and builder treated you through this process. All the best.
Hi, first of all THANKS for your kind words! It’s really heartwarming reading something like this! Sadly the builder hasn’t been of any help, we contacted them by phone and email but there was no support. A bit disappointing as we’ve heard other yards are cooperative. We’ll keep you updated how everything is going. So far the insurance has been easy and quick to communicate and help 😉 All the best to you too!
Believe it or not this type of damage is not uncommon with this hull/frame design. Bennetau doesn’t adhere the inner framework by tabbing the core into the hull, but by gluing it in. This will cause it to separate from the hull by an impact on the keel. Just like you guys experienced, and just like the Evans’ boat experienced. The Evans (Expedition Evans on UA-cam) did the exact same thing you are doing, they had the same issues removing the keel and delaminating the hull right underneath, and they ground down the frame and hull and made a strong mechanical bond by glassing the frame to the hull as it should have been done at the factory. Check them out, you will see that all is not lost, and your beautiful HI will sail again with some hard work and determination.
Thank you very much for your comment. We absolutely agree with you - that was one of the biggest learnings so far. Now that the damage analysis has been mostly completed, we will also try to make the Hi even stronger than before. We are just waiting for the final statement of the expert opinion.
@@chrisgardner6677 I have not worked on one of these yet, but I have seen a few get their keels removed and the ones with this design seem to all have a ton of Sika or other adhesive between the keel skeg and hull. I don’t think Beneteau expects this to ever be removed once it is assembled. The repair isn’t hard, just awkward and uncomfortable to do.
@@cascadesouthernmodeltrains7547 Thank You for the quick reply. When I bought my boat 3 years ago the keel had been re-bedded. I dive it monthly and it seems ok. Luckily I am just sailing around Waikiki and its a small boat so I am not sailing long passages like Pat & Frankie are but I want to sell the boat someday and dont want to give new owners any headaches. Mahalo again for your response and wishing Pat & Frankie the best from Hawaii...
Keep up your spirit guys....i love to watch a sail boat build from scratch.... example like salt n tar...sailing yaba....and a few more still building their boat.....💚 from 🇲🇾
As I look at this problem and I have commented before I am stumped as to how to attach the keel to the existing structure. My guess is that you will take out the keep and then cut the hull maybe as much as 6 inches and then start massive buildup of glass and epoxy for strength. Then a new stainless shoe for the keep boats then reattach the keel. That Stainless shoe will need to extend further than the original as you will just have the same problem again... May want to consider shorting the keel and then add the weight as a bulb to the bottom of the keel.. but i would ask a marine architect if you have not already done.. would recommend this.
Thanks for thinking about this and sharing your idea. Once the surveyors have inspected everything we are very curious how the plan for the repair looks like.
hi pat and frankie have you watched the rebuilding of the keel area on a 49ft.beneteau. the youtube is expedition evans. the two of them rebuilt the keel area together. thought it may be interesting to you both. keep your chins up. you can do it!!!!!!
You are describing the disassembly and the unknown extent of the problem. Once the extent of the damage is known the repair plan can be developed and thereafter it will turn positive as they repair the damage. It is just a phase to be tolerated for now. It will get better.
Thank you for your words - that's what we think too. Every day we can look more positively into the future and your support helps us to do so! Thank you!
High-aspect keels are murder on the hull joint. Is there a full length SS flat plate inside that runs under the keel nuts? That would sandwich the hull and help distribute the load, but I'm afraid the main issue seems to be the keel support design is just not made for slamming around offshore.
Life can suck..however..you have a great mustache and you do have a " better half" .lol. So,things aren't so bad and it will all work out. I'm watching because you guys are a compelling couple. Looking forward to the next episode!
Hola! La próxima semana será sin duda la que defina los pasos a seguir. Mantengo los dedos cruzados para que los dos especialistas lleguen a un mismo resultado y que sea muy positivo para vosotros. Mucha suerte!!!🤞🙂
I hope the survey will give you what you need to refocus. Drop the old goals behind you and look forward to your new project. New goals and new milestones to celebrate! Being 70 years old I know it is hard but I think you can do it.
I am crossing my finger, arms, legs, and eyes that everything will be as good or even better after what I am calling your "refit". Frankie, 🖐*high five*. Pat, 👊*fist bump*. 😄
Guys, you really should replace these keel-bolts now that they are out, even if they should all be straight. It's something that needs doing on a fin-keeler after some years anyway and if you do it now it's done and you can rest easy. Even better: if the professionals are doing it you won't end up with leaky keelbolts. And please, don't make such a drama out of it. What happened, happened. Many of us have had really frustrating situations with our boats, me included. Being sad only makes you feel more miserable and doesn't help to get the job done. Look forward, focus on what is being done and how. It's a great opportunity to learn heaps about boat work for your future as liveaboards, something that will always come in handy! Get your heads up and give it a go! You'll be feeling much much better! Hugs xxx 😻😘
Thank you for your advice, which we are happy to take. We are also happy to try and take the second advice - there are just a lot of issues here that make it sometime more difficult for us. But we are getting better and better at looking positively to the future and an advice like this also helps us! Thank you very much!
@@patandfrankie look, when something goes wrong on a boat it's always a lot of issues, and the most heartbreaking part of them is, that you have to rip it all apart. I remember very well the moment I had to rip my whole saloon area out. It was beautifully done but badly damaged by ingress of water and it couldn't be salvaged. A friend came to give me a hand. First I was shellshocked when he started attacking it with a crowbar, hammer saw and whatnot to get the job over and done with as fast as possible. Then I grabbed the tools and started doing exactly the same thing. We had it all out and down on the concrete in 2.5 days. The guy from the port came with his truck, I chucked all the garbage on top, then I started crying my heart out. Although it was only 2 pm I went to the harbor cafe to have a beer. For reasons unknown to me all my mates came back early from fishing "gosh, Dody, what happened to you?" We spent hours together with some more beer. They managed to calm me down, meanwhile I was a bit tipsy. I had an early night and was back up to keep going the next morning because I had to, to get going with the next job: removing my tanks, cables, pumps etc. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pull through. Compared to many others you've got a huge advantage: your insurance company is paying specialists to do the job for you, you don't even have to get your hands in! I know quite some sailors who came to grief on remote islands far away from any possible help and of course without insurance. The ones I know managed to get their boats patched up and afloat with their own hands and the materials they had on board and they all pulled themselves through it as hard as it was. Try to remember this the moment you suddenly start to feel sad again. Being a liveaboard does mean that there are times when you've got to be strong. Compared to many others you are very privileged at the moment. Hugs xxx 😻😘
Hi guys. It was hard to take the keel off my Moody too with lots of frightening sounds 😢 but it all worked out fine as I am sure yours will too. Btw the Atlantic isn’t going anywhere so you can cross it anytime once your boat is all fixed. Hang in there 👍
Hi! Very glad to hear you had no big troubles, it is a scary job to do/have done! Thanks for lifting us up .. that’s a good thing - we‘ll still get the chance to do it some time 😉 Is that something you are also planning to do/have done?
@ it’s on my bucket list. I’ve been preparing my boat for 5 years now and I’m nearly there. Just need to install the solar arch this winter and fix my water maker then I’m all set. That’s if nothing else breaks in the meantime. 🤞🤔🤣
Think of the positives - now that the keel is off the boat can sit in a cradle much lower to the ground. Accessing her will be so much easier - no more climbing a huge ladder, more like walking hilly terrain than climbing the north face of the Eiger!! The surveyors reports will tell all - keeping everything crossed for you guys, good luck!
Hello? So sorry for you guys.... Great plans and then all this happens. Maybe, while you have some time on your hands, you could maybe make an episode on how you came to choose this particular boat, the size, the equipment you chose: a tech video where you could give us wanabe sailors across a great ocean some insights on your decision process.. Thanks in advance and take care
Hi, thank you so much for your comment and this idea. We’re happy to take your suggestion into consideration and will see how we can do it. We think it is maybe when we live on the boat again. In the meantime, we have a few videos that might answer at least some of your questions. For example this one: ua-cam.com/video/hskhkNKfBRY/v-deo.html
It is always tough for any sailor to get their head around significant damage to their vessel and home, then the process of disassembly can be sickening and repair endless. Focus on the opportunity this provides... strengthening the keel subframe and attachment to the hull, check all aspects of your spade rudder, review or remove and refit the holes and shaft bearings. With the mast down, check all the fittings as it's the best time to replace worn components. With a thorough check you'll be good to go knowing you have a reliable yacht to cross the Atlantic, whenever time allows and you will understand more about your yacht and how to maintain it.
All the work is going as I expected.The boat yard seem to be doing the job correctly. Its amazing how strong the Sika Flex is, holding the keel with no bolts . This is normal. You should have tried to find a ride on another boat for the ARC. You would have gained some experience about what to expect when you do it with HI.Also the time away from the boat could help lower your stress levels. For the type of damage the boat suffered it all seems to be going normal. All the best from Norway.
Is it not maybe possible to join another boat for the arc crossing, just to give you the experience and break away, fly back afterwards with renewed strength to tackle the many jobs ahead. Then you’d be even more prepared for next year - big hugs 🤗
Thank you for your comment. Yes, in principle it would be possible or even with friends who have sailed now. We have also thought about it several times. However, we want to be close by during this very complex repair process so that we can react. We want to achieve the best possible result and have therefore decided not to be absent for a month.
Greta and Vagabond were going East ,much different. I feel so bad for you guys,a terrible thing to happen. Don’t worry about the ARC, too many boats in one place at one time. I have done two crossings and wouldn’t dream of going in the ARC. Chins up and good luck.
Thank you for your comment and the encouraging words. We will also see whether we will try the ARC again or whether we will sail alone. But first we have to repair Hi and then see how it feels for us.
Probablemente en estos momentos esteis pasando los momentos más difíciles del proceso de reparación pues todo son preparativos necesários sin que aún no se vean progresos pero son momentos que hay que pasar necesariamente para poder acceder a las reparaciones activas. Hay que armarse de paciencia, todo llega. Muchos ánimos! He continuado viendo el vídeo y me ha parecido que os estaba invadiendo el pesimismo...para nada!! barcos en muchisimo peor estado que el vuestro se reparan y navegan por todos los océanos. Pero si es de fibra de vídrio!!
Tiene toda la razón, el proceso lleva su tiempo y es un «juego de espera». A veces nos desanima un poco, pero intentamos hacer algo con el tiempo y preferimos ser optimistas al final, que perder la esperanza. Parece que se puede reparar, así que aguantamos. 😉
You may not make this years ARC however either on this repaired and improved yacht, or a replacement one, you can still do another ARC... And next year, you will be far more experienced... Kindness to you both...
We agree with you. It was just sometimes hard for us to get there to think like that. That is definitely one of the best things about the fact that we are now gaining experience in every respect. Thank you! 😊
Hoping for the best for you guys. That being said, I hope the insurance company totals it and you get to buy a new boat. That keel design has issues and if it ever fails while you are at sea it's a complete and total disaster. There are fundamentally better designs out there. Go find one.
Things always look bad when you are taking them apart. It will be much better when they start putting them back together. Your flanged keel attachment is a better design than on the Beneteau I took around the world. It is more like the modern race boats.
We are touched that we were able to take you along! Sharing this journey in an honest way is very important to us.. 🙂 We will make new plans, and who knows, maybe it’s a possibility to do it differently than originally planed. Have you sailed that passage to Brazil?
@patandfrankie Yes we spent last year in Brazil, sailing from Mindelo Cabo Verde to Salvador. In Salvador stay at the marina by the fort. It is not expensive. Then you can sail to Curacao for hurricane season.
@@rainfinger Thanks for the advice! Sounds like a great experience and we hope you had a great time! We will consider it when the repairs to Hi are completed.
When craning out for routine inspection the whole weight of the boat was allowed to rest on the front point of the keel and loud cracking was heard from the timbers and fibreglass of the keel matrix under the cabin floor. Understanding of an armchair enthusiast.
Thank you for your honest comment. We accept your opinion, but we don't make any extra drama, it's important for us to show how it really feels for us and what phases we go through - technically and emotionally.
Now you making progress, it’s very common that the Sika bonds to the hull and removing keel creates lots of delam, just rebuild. Can’t say I like that recessed keel flange, it adds to the problem. You also need to get some of that electrical equipment out of the bilge in case of some bilge water, just raise all electrical about 300mm. Since you have to redo floor, get rid of all the wood that the floorboard sit on, raise grid and stringers to allow for floor boards to all come out with only screws. Just have a look at modern boats in the yard, that system is ridiculous. You could have a much stronger grid with closer support of the keel. There are keel bolts that are not direct on a stringer, that’s not good and worth attending to.
There is no need to go with the ARC, sailors have crossed the Atlantic for over 100 years without. What's more: the ARC is leaving the Canary Islands very early in the season at a time when the risk of hurricanes is not over yet and the trade winds are still pretty fragile. It's only for the convenience of the crews that they choose this early time, so (nearly) everyone can have his Xmas in the Caribbean. Still, right now is not the proper time to make any plans. First the boat needs to be fixed! Xxx 😻😘
In any case, we didn't touch the ground. We can't say any more about this yet, as an expert opinion is still being prepared and we don't want to make any assumptions.
Is there Keel Maker where you Two live? Any thoughts adding Weight to the Ballast so you Can shorten your long Keel? Good luck on the Repair. Try Hybrid Fiber instead of Fiberglass. Hybrid fiber is a lot Stronger
Take a definitive decision not to cross the Atlantic this year and wait for next year. That way your stress level will go down and you will see the future more positively. Good luck, Richard
Now is the time for you both to be as very patient and very calm as possible. Meditation recommended. Deal only in facts and reality. Look only to a safe and robust outcome. You could do with some experienced independent advice following the delivery of the surveyors reports (try reaching out to the Evans's - they have been there and done it. As I recall they made a really good and extra strong initial repair, but even-so they had to undertake a 2nd delam repair later.) If the boats is repairable, endeavour to get the maker to provide a recommended repair procedure, even if it is not underwritten. What is clear now, is that any repair is not going to be quick. The repair has to ensure that the boat is left appreciably and inherently stronger than before the accident. A lift-out and hull support procedure should be sought from the builder, a must have. The decision regarding the Atlantic crossing was inevitable I'm afraid and you did right to make it. Other YT channels that will be of help - The Duracell project, Sailing Uma, and Sailing NV (particular the recent episodes regarding lift-out). I naturally hope for the best outcome - never lose sight of reality. Any repair should consider the introduction of carbon fibre elements to the bonding process to provide an intrinsically stronger structure.
Just wondering, is the boat still in production? Can they replace the keel with a shoal keel? I am glad to hear you're having two surveys done. Of course that could really be confusing if you get two different answers. Best of luck!!
Thanks for sharing your idea. Our model is from 2010, so there probably have been some adaptations. Sadly the werft hasn’t been very helpful in this process.. The two surveyors will be sparing partner and will discuss together what the problem is and how it can be done in the best way. 😉
A heat box should have been built around the keel with insulation ,then a couple of heat guns shooting heat into it with 2 inkbird thermostats set at 180 degrees left for a day would have relealsed the keel ,done by many yards that know what they are doing
This is not yet clear at the moment, but we hope that we will find a good solution. In any case, our insurance will cover the costs of preparing the survey next week.
Not sure if you’ve seen any of expedition evens UA-cam channel. They bought a boat with a blown grid they documented what all they did to refit their boat. Best of luck to you guys. Sometimes the biggest upsets in life make for a good story to tell later. I know that doesn’t help at all right now. I don’t know if there is anything that anyone could say to make it better other than , “we’ll pay for it.” Weather that’s the insurance or the boat yard.
@@epheljr1 Thank you for your words and your wishes! Yes, we know the videos and are in contact with them. Thanks for the tip. We think so too, it may have been for a reason and so we are optimistic about the future.
Hey guys, I'm really sad for all your trouble, but try taking it as a blessing, that it happened now and not in the middle of the Atlantic. The repair you are about to do is really common here in Sweden where I live due to a lot of sailboats and very rocky and hard navigated sea. I can also see that your boat have lived in Sweden before you got it. My boat was repaired last winter and it was worse than yours. It was a Maxi 38+ that split the liner after a hard grounding and it was repaired exactly like the boat in the link below, at the same place. Even the keel was bent lengtwise in the foot that bolts to the boat.😬 Just know that if you repair correctly you will have a much better boat that will hold up much better in both weather and ,god forbid, you find a rock. take care and feel free to message me if you have any questions. Link to Sailing Aurora, great explanation of their repair! ua-cam.com/play/PL-zpPPUr__MIc_fWi3nMpmPYhjbGmme4Q.html&si=C8eiwhMAkwPQep-l
Hi, thanks for your message! We have heard like you say that in the Nordics it is not so uncommon & we have watched the Sailing Aurora videos on the 2 day this happened 😄 Thanks! All the best to you in Sweden!
Keep your spirits up. The keel damage is just the worst of luck, and it might even be a problem in the original build. After fixing it, the boat will be better than new. I hope that you get the repair going as fast as possible. To make it faster, you can make new floor boards using the old ones as templates. All good to you.
Thank you for your kind words! That can definitely be possible - we will find it out with the survey. That was also our idea to use the floor boards as a template - otherwise it will be a tough one. Thanks 😉
Unfortunately, this notion is naive and does not correspond to reality. Such damage can never be repaired safely. I have too much personal experience for that.
@thomasescape3002 I sail in the Baltic, and I have many friends who have had similar damage from hitting rocks. You can absolutely fix it. 2 seasons a go my friends hanse 40 was fixed and no issues after the repair. Many manufacturers use clues to attach the grid when you repair it. Laminating over you will end up with a stronger boat. One friend even drove a bavaria 35 match to the rocks 6,5 knots, and it came just fine after fixing it. It is a big job but the cost is small compared to the value of the boat.
@@thomasescape3002 That is simply not true. Fibreglass is one of the most easily repaired mediums out there that yachts are made of and can be safely repaired with experienced crews. Fibreglass yachts are rebuilt worldwide. This is an opportunity to turn this vessel into a stronger cruising yacht by rebuilding the keel subframe and improving its bonding to the hull. Destroying the interior is always a tough thing to do and to watch the disassembly, but access to do full inspection and appropriate repairs is essential to make lasting repairs.
It would be so great if you could somehow get Brett and Jade from Expedition Evans to consult with you on this. They had a very similar situation and repaired all the damage. Even if you aren't going to do the work, I am betting they may have advice that could save you a lot of trial and error. Hang in there!
To reinforce the bottoms properly and re-glue the counter-mould, the hull would have to be placed in shapers. Not just placed on four points. If I were you, I'd forget about this wreck and all the worries that go with it, take the insurance money and buy a real travel boat, smaller, seaworthier and stronger.
I would try to avoid getting depressed. All it will come to is decision making. And if there are any doubts, go find another vessel, hard as it may be. That's it. Rather than taking the risk for something you did not cause, I would begin, looking for another vessels, there are plenty out there. I would avoid buying one with a similar keel construction.
I liked Michael's comment below as I agree with him. Apart from one thing. He would ask the manufacturer to supply a new matrix or keel grid. I think the boat was not built bullit proof, so the boat would still be vulnerable. A reinforced grid could to do the trick. However, your plan is to cross oceans with her. I could give you my opinion but will the two of you feel safe mid ocean in 30+ knots? On the other hand, you feel sad about missing the ARC. As far as I know that takes you to St Lucia. The Caribic. Now a very personal note. I hate it. It is loud, crowded, and completely taken over by tourism and criminal minds. Been there, done it, but never again. But OK, if you insist on going there, you have my blessings. Looking forward to the views of the two independent surveyors. Keep it up guys!
Hi and thanks for sharing your thoughts we us! Sadly all the effort we put into contacting the ship werft was unsuccessful. Quite disappointed as we’ve heard of other manufacturers that really helped their (ex-)customers out with technical information, etc. I think many people share your opinion about the Caribbean. We believer there will probably nice places and others that are not so nice and then we’d move onwards. 😉 All the best to you!
OK, the ARC this year is nonsense - your decision was according. BUT - what's about next year? You are young. Pat - about the mast: Try to figure out how old the shrouds are. I heard that some insurances request it not to be older than xx years. Perhaps a good time to thing about new ones. As EVA (Evans) and Aurora - your boat will be much sturdier than before. Try to find some physical reference point inside the boat. For me it's hard to imagine the dimensions on that repair. You want to add several layers of glass on the structure. On one hand you have to sand much down - perhaps you may gain some space for the new glass if your (white) bottom may be thinner in the future. Since the yard glued so much of that bottom - perhaps glass the new one in. A very weak point: would have been much worse if something like that happened under way. Perhaps better there on ground.
Thats true! 🙂 Thanks for your advice with the shrouds and the other advice - the shrouds are only 3 years old. But we'll use the time now to check everything again!
Being a large sail boat owner for many years, I cannot understand why someone would throw there money in to such a flimsy structure on such a major component of a keel, that is simply bolted on to such a large structure as the hull ! The massive forces of sailing cause the keel to have massive strain on the mounting points with such a flimsy structural internal mounts. This is clearly not a blue water sailing yacht being a flimsy keel mount with a heavy wieght bulb on the bottem, crazy. Sell it and by a proper blue water long keel stem to stern yacht. These thin bulb keels should be outlawed, as the only people that benafit is the manufacturer's profits, such a poor design!
I truly feel sorry having been in a similar situation but much less a few decades ago. But if it's an insurance job, why are you both undertaking such heartbreaking preparation work yourselves. Surely you are better to leave it in the hands of the insurer now and let the professionals get on with their work although I'm surprised your boat hasn't been declared a total right off. But all best wishes and hope the repairs go well.
We hope you have come through this well. Many thanks for the advice. It was important for us to be there, especially at the beginning, and to learn something new. When it comes to the repairs, we will definitely have to stay in the background so as not to disturb the work. At the moment it looks like she won't be a total loss, but we won't be able to say for sure until the survey has been completed.
you may have already said ,but why is the insurance company not paying out and why are you doing the work not a boat yard. did the lift out boat yard not take responsibility for the damage. hope you can sort this work out.
We don't yet know what the result will be. The expert opinion will follow next week and then we may be able to say what will happen. However, if it is not a total loss, the insurance company will not pay out. And most of the work is carried out by professional companies and we only provide support if we can or accompany it in part.
No, we think that these experiences and events are (unfortunately) part of this life. At least that's what we've learned over the last few months. There are many ups and downs and both are part of it.
@@patandfrankie I was watching a video of Sailing Zingaro and he said in his experience there were only two types of sailors in this world who have not run aground, the ones who have never left port and the others liars, but the bad news is even the most experienced have done it more than twice .
@@patandfrankie I forgot to say the video i saw was called MAYDAY!! BOAT AGROUND!! - What To Do When Grouned & How To Kedge Off. He show you KEDGING it may come in useful for the future?✌❤🙏
A ver, no os preocupéis tanto, el barco claro que tiene solución y lo van a reparar, yo soy de aquí de Tenerife y veo muchos barcos que vienen al cruce del atlántico, y muchos traen los barcos que dan pena; sobre el seguro de que se haga cargo de los costes lo dudo mucho, el barco creo que se compró en Portugal, aquí en España te puedo asegurar que los seguros de aquí no te lo pagan (aquí un seguro de un barco cuesta 350 euros al año), aquí según la ley si la avería es antes de los 6 meses lo tendría que pagar el que os lo vendió. Mucha suerte.
Muchas gracias por su comentario y sus deseos. Si lo hemos entendido bien, esto es muy complicado. Tenemos curiosidad por ver qué nos depara el futuro y esperamos encontrar una buena solución.
I get that’s it’s an ongoing investigation. Based on what I’ve seen in your videos, it still seems like the yard was completely at fault. If you were in the USA, I would have recommended contacting an attorney and having the yard not only cover the cost of all the damages, but the cost of putting y’all in decent housing while the repairs took place. I believe had this happened to any other boat owner that isn’t as hands on or technical, they would be in a most worst situation. See if Better Help can sponsor your videos. Couldn’t think of a better one given your situation.
Thank you for your comment. We can't and don't want to blame anyone and nothing has been proven yet. We also ask for your understanding that we do not wish to make any assumptions. We hope to be able to say more after the expert opinion. That's probably true about better help - perhaps we should try to win them over, as the concept is really good :)
Oh wow, horrible to hear .. we thought they were know for better quality but hearing this together with what we are experiencing makes it a bit questionable for us. (Of course other boats habe these issues too)
I had a new one. Also some problems. But not with keel. But my friend which had same yacht (46bc) had same keel problem with a grounding. Not a huge impact grounding, it was on sand. But same problem as you have. The problem was the connection between hull and half carbon frame. It’s glued but it should be glued and laminated. So they broke out all stuf like your yacht and repaired it by laminating it carefully. After the yacht was better and safer then before.
My problems were also about the glue. But only with the chainplates of the rigging and the backstay .. they came loose from the hull. the glue was not strong enough. it was solved by the yard by re-gluing it all and then laminating it.
the plus side to this is you have the opportunity to make the boat stronger than it was originally and that should give you peace of mind , I lived for 36 years on my boat and I regret going to land living , enjoy this part because you will look back on this struggle with fond memories
When the boat was lifted to remove the keel and with the matrix already broken away from the hull in the area of the keel, the load would have been taken by the matrix in areas that were still attached as the unattached hull area flexed by bearing the weight of the keel. The cracking that you were hearing was most likely from those areas of the matrix that were previously still bonded to the hull. Based on my past experience, your damaged area has now become larger. This may be a good thing since those new areas were likely bonded similarly to those areas initially broken. In other words, not bonded properly. IF (and it's a big IF) the boat gets fixed, I'd also say that the matrix would need to be completely removed by breaking it out in pieces and a new matrix grid supplied from the manufacturer would be bonded in. All in all, I would start to plan for a very, very long repair time.
Assuming repairable, I'd be inclined to spend extensive time costal sailing to stress the repair to ensure that it was solidly done. For me, that precludes any Atlantic crossing for this boat until proven that the repairs are as good as or better than new.
On another note, I'd highly recommend to not continue to be emotionally attached to this boat. It is just a boat and can be replaced. Becoming emotionally attached may cloud and influence your decision making. Best of luck to you both.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thought so extensively! We are investigating any further damage and share your option that the boat needs to be test sailed for some time! Thanks for your wishes!
This is a well considered reply.
@michaellahrkamp9755 I'm curious as to why you recommend breaking up the grid? Have you seen this commonly done?
In situations where the bond is compromised, the grid can be investigated in-place for delamination inside the existing floors and stringers. After problem areas are identified, those areas can receive extra remediation. The remainder of the grid can be rebonded to the hull with new fiberglass and epoxy. Breaking up the existing grid seems like overkill.
Could you even get a replacement keel grid into the boat without taking the deck off?
Ziemlich gute Zusammenfassung !!! Das Boot ist hinüber… Der Rumpf ist massiv instabil und eine Reparatur lohnt sich einfach nicht !
Ouch guys. We're rooting for you! But now you have the opportunity to build it stronger than it ever was! It's just fiberglass 😊
Thanks guys - it's very nice to hear this from you! So many have been pointing out your videos and the great job you did. And of course we watched them and it helped us a lot to understand this topic a bit more! 😊
Good to see that the team works hand in glove...it's difficult not to lose hope in this energy draining time...but it is great how you stick together and comfort each other😊
Thank you very much! 😊 It makes us definitely stronger and brings us even closer together.
These modern boats with a short, deep keel that is attached to the hull with bolts on a narrow surface, have caused serious problems for many boats - up to and including the complete loss of the keel on the high seas! In addition, this boat also has a keel bomb that protrudes forward beyond the keel, where all sorts of things can get caught and stuck....
I wouldn't go on a long ocean voyage with it!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I am so sorry to see you guys like this . I’m pretty sure once it’s been grounded back and re-fibreglass and not glued the boat will be stronger than ever would’ve been from knew. Yes it’s going to take time and effort and money but you’re gonna have a better boat at the end. Sending my best wishes
We think so, too! Thank you very much!
you both need hugs!! so very sorry this has happened ! It is a helpless feeling. soon you will have answeres and can start healing both the boat and yourselves.
Thank you so much! We are already starting with this 🤗
Thanks for keeping up the work during this challenging time. I enjoy following the process anf wish you all the best! Whatever happens
Thanks you very much! We are happy to have you here with us 🫶
The main problem here is design of this boat kill should be mounted direct to the hull , should be mounted to the stump onf the hull ,like Catalina and other brands making , only Benetau and others chip brands making this mistake , this is large boat and allways will be damger to sail this boat , if you hit something under water boat will sunk in few minutes, walk away from this boat all together, get insurance money and never look back
Also Hanse, Bavaria have these same constructions, never buy a yacht build after 2000.
Keep your spirit positive
You re on the right way
And in the end you will know the boat in and out
Thank you 😊
Don't be depressed, you are learning something new everyday and you are on the hard standing learning it. It is a challenge with a potential good ending, you will have a better boat that has been surveyed not once but three times by two independant surveyors. Smile 🙂
Thanks for being here with us and your uplifting words 😌 sometimes it helps hearing that from somebody else .. we are very lucky and happy that our insurance has been supportive and for the expertise of the surveyors. We’ll definitely learn even more..
It is tough to watch this; I can only imagine how much tougher it is for you two to actually live it... I hope it all works out and you can resume your travels.
Thank you very much for your sympathy and wishes!
Congratulations on the progress.
One of the first things I was told when I started sailing is that the worst enemy of a sailor is a schedule. And it is so true. You have to be ready to adapt to changing conditions and plans come and go. Look at the positive side. After all this ordeal is over, you will have a stronger boat, and you will have learnt a lot about your boat and repair processes. You and your boat will be stronger. Crossing the Atlantic is only ONE of many possible things you can do. So once your boat is repaired, you can revisit the options. And... there's always next year!
Thank you for your comment and the encouraging words. We absolutely agree with you - but it's not always easy for us during the process. We have and will continue to learn so much and that is also worth so much. And we're slowly getting to the point where we're looking forward to afterwards and seeing how we can continue in the best possible way. Luckily, the crossing is not running away from us. 🙂
Hi guys,
there is no need to go with the ARC. Avoid to be be disappointed on this. We didn´t do it when we made our first Atlantic crossing, and today we don´t do it again. Take all the time the repairs will need. And then go on step by step. You never now, sometimes a huge problem finally ends up in a surprising result you never did expect.
Martin and Anke crossing fingers
Hi Anke and Martin,
Thank you very much for your comment! In the meantime, the disappointment has settled somewhat and we are looking more positively to the future. We also hope that in the end it will turn out to have had a positive purpose.
Did it mean that you are currently on your way across the Atlantic? If so, we wish you a safe crossing and fair winds!
Best, Pat & Frankie
Crossing the Atlantic is our idea, but unluckily we are stuck in Garachico a one hour busride from your place. Engine problems. 😂 You can ask your surveyour R. H. He knows about.
@MartinBirkhoff Oh no 😟 We come you can fix it soon! We cross our fingers for you 🤞🏼
Personally with this amount of damage, I would walk away, let the insurance take it and buy a new boat.
Good luck! It looks as though you are in the hands of professionals who know what they are doing and you'll be able to have an effective repair and a stronger boat.
Thank you! We also think that Hi will be better after this than before.
Big milestone to get the keel off, but it was obviously very stressful for you. Best wishes for a good outcome from the examinations / survey. Cheers!
Thanks for your wishes and feeling with us! 😊 We‘ll let you know next week how the inspection went. Cheers & all the best to you too!
Sorry for what you guys are going through. We recently completed a two year rebuild on our boat and it was tough on us to stop cruising for that long. We are now out sailing again and are starting to enjoy some of the benefits of our efforts. Life is much happier now! Try your best to make the correct decision for yourselves on whether rebuilding this boat is the best path for you. One of the most important parts of answering that question is whether this is the boat that fits your needs the best once the work is completed since no amount of work will change the basic design of the boat. If you decide to proceed then be prepared for a lot of work and the process taking longer than expected. You will learn a lot about more about the structure of your boat than most sailors. If the work is done correctly your boat can be far stronger than she was when new. Don't be afraid to add some significant weight to the hull as you rebuild this highly stressed part on your boat. You never want to be looking at a job like this ever again and the confidence that your boat is safe is very important as well! When dealing with adhesives including caulkings, most will soften with the application of heat. A paint stripper gun can be useful, just be careful not to overheat gelcoated surfaces or the gelcoat will be damaged. We send our best to you. J&J
Hi you two! We are so happy for you that you are enjoying the time on the water again! I could really visualise it, how it must look & feel after that amount of time spend on repairs or making the boat better 🙂 Thanks for your words, we have much time for thinking and try to see the positive and also reconsider what fits us and what feels good. As for now we are going with the process.. 😉 All the best to you too!
You've already made some huge steps forward hope survey works out well with information you need
Thanks! We hope so too 🤞🏼
Good luck guys! Be strong and have faith
Thanks!
Hi guys. You are doing an amazing job of staying positive. The keel came off better than I expected. Now it's up to the surveyors! Has the builder gave you any support or direction of any kind? Another positive is you are having decent weather for getting things ready. Don't let the few negative comments get you down as most are supporting you and your decisions. I'm eager to hear when it's done how the insurance and builder treated you through this process. All the best.
Hi, first of all THANKS for your kind words! It’s really heartwarming reading something like this! Sadly the builder hasn’t been of any help, we contacted them by phone and email but there was no support. A bit disappointing as we’ve heard other yards are cooperative. We’ll keep you updated how everything is going. So far the insurance has been easy and quick to communicate and help 😉 All the best to you too!
The builder? A French builder??? dream on.
All I heard about support from the big French firms was terrible.
It’s an Italian builder - Grand Soleil
@@patandfrankie Then perhaps all mass producers?
We would say it’s a production boat.
Many thanks for a most interesting review….Best success for you two.
Thanks, we are glad you enjoyed watching. It means a lot to us to have you here! 🙂 All the best to you too!
Believe it or not this type of damage is not uncommon with this hull/frame design. Bennetau doesn’t adhere the inner framework by tabbing the core into the hull, but by gluing it in. This will cause it to separate from the hull by an impact on the keel. Just like you guys experienced, and just like the Evans’ boat experienced. The Evans (Expedition Evans on UA-cam) did the exact same thing you are doing, they had the same issues removing the keel and delaminating the hull right underneath, and they ground down the frame and hull and made a strong mechanical bond by glassing the frame to the hull as it should have been done at the factory. Check them out, you will see that all is not lost, and your beautiful HI will sail again with some hard work and determination.
Thank you very much for your comment. We absolutely agree with you - that was one of the biggest learnings so far. Now that the damage analysis has been mostly completed, we will also try to make the Hi even stronger than before. We are just waiting for the final statement of the expert opinion.
I'm presuming you are prepared for the boat to "written off" by the insurance company?
Aloha, I have an 1987 Beneteau First 235. Do you know if my keel is bedded different than new Beneteau's? Mahalo from Hawaii.
@@chrisgardner6677 I have not worked on one of these yet, but I have seen a few get their keels removed and the ones with this design seem to all have a ton of Sika or other adhesive between the keel skeg and hull. I don’t think Beneteau expects this to ever be removed once it is assembled.
The repair isn’t hard, just awkward and uncomfortable to do.
@@cascadesouthernmodeltrains7547 Thank You for the quick reply. When I bought my boat 3 years ago the keel had been re-bedded. I dive it monthly and it seems ok. Luckily I am just sailing around Waikiki and its a small boat so I am not sailing long passages like Pat & Frankie are but I want to sell the boat someday and dont want to give new owners any headaches. Mahalo again for your response and wishing Pat & Frankie the best from Hawaii...
Best wishes to you both as you go through this heart rending process.
Thanks for your kind words!
Think how well you will sleep, under way crossing, knowing how well put back together you boat is.
Very positive experience.
Thanks for those uplifting words 😊
I feel for you guys. Keep your heads up high!
Thank you!
Keep up your spirit guys....i love to watch a sail boat build from scratch.... example like salt n tar...sailing yaba....and a few more still building their boat.....💚 from 🇲🇾
Thanks! 😊
Hang in there guys, you’ll get some answers soon, i hope! Thinking of you and wishing you all the best. 🤗
Thank you for the encouraging words and your support! 😊
Hang in there. Thank you for sharing your experience with us. Hope to see you out on the water.
Thank you for your comment and for following our journey.
As I look at this problem and I have commented before I am stumped as to how to attach the keel to the existing structure. My guess is that you will take out the keep and then cut the hull maybe as much as 6 inches and then start massive buildup of glass and epoxy for strength. Then a new stainless shoe for the keep boats then reattach the keel. That Stainless shoe will need to extend further than the original as you will just have the same problem again... May want to consider shorting the keel and then add the weight as a bulb to the bottom of the keel.. but i would ask a marine architect if you have not already done.. would recommend this.
Thanks for thinking about this and sharing your idea. Once the surveyors have inspected everything we are very curious how the plan for the repair looks like.
So sorry for your hassle..Wishing you the best from Hawaii..
Thanks - all the best to Hawaii 🏄♂️
Hope the rapairs go smoothly and quickly 👍🏻🙏🏻
Thank you! 🙂
hi pat and frankie
have you watched the rebuilding of the keel area on a 49ft.beneteau.
the youtube is expedition evans. the two of them rebuilt the keel area together.
thought it may be interesting to you both. keep your chins up. you can do it!!!!!!
Thank you very much for your wishes! We know the episodes of EE 😊
You are describing the disassembly and the unknown extent of the problem. Once the extent of the damage is known the repair plan can be developed and thereafter it will turn positive as they repair the damage. It is just a phase to be tolerated for now. It will get better.
Thank you for your words - that's what we think too. Every day we can look more positively into the future and your support helps us to do so! Thank you!
High-aspect keels are murder on the hull joint. Is there a full length SS flat plate inside that runs under the keel nuts? That would sandwich the hull and help distribute the load, but I'm afraid the main issue seems to be the keel support design is just not made for slamming around offshore.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! There is a stainless steel construction that supports the keel area.
Lay the bolts on a flat surface with the head off the edge and roll it slowly and watch the head it'll wiggle and the shaft at a wiggle if it's bent
Thank you - we will do that and I think we will exchange them proactively.
Life can suck..however..you have a great mustache and you do have a " better half" .lol. So,things aren't so bad and it will all work out. I'm watching because you guys are a compelling couple. Looking forward to the next episode!
Haha thanks for your uplifting words 😄 nice to have you on board!
Hey, all the best for the survey.
Thanks!
Hola! La próxima semana será sin duda la que defina los pasos a seguir.
Mantengo los dedos cruzados para que los dos especialistas lleguen a un mismo resultado y que sea muy positivo para vosotros.
Mucha suerte!!!🤞🙂
Muchas gracias!! 🥰
My heart goes out to you two…fingers are crossed❤🎈⛵⛵
Thanks!! That’s really kind 🫶
I hope the survey will give you what you need to refocus. Drop the old goals behind you and look forward to your new project. New goals and new milestones to celebrate! Being 70 years old I know it is hard but I think you can do it.
Thank you! Absolutely - It took a while but we are getting there thinking like that!
I am crossing my finger, arms, legs, and eyes that everything will be as good or even better after what I am calling your "refit". Frankie, 🖐*high five*. Pat, 👊*fist bump*. 😄
Thanks soo much! We love your positive energy!! 😄All the best to you too!
Guys, you really should replace these keel-bolts now that they are out, even if they should all be straight. It's something that needs doing on a fin-keeler after some years anyway and if you do it now it's done and you can rest easy. Even better: if the professionals are doing it you won't end up with leaky keelbolts.
And please, don't make such a drama out of it. What happened, happened. Many of us have had really frustrating situations with our boats, me included. Being sad only makes you feel more miserable and doesn't help to get the job done. Look forward, focus on what is being done and how. It's a great opportunity to learn heaps about boat work for your future as liveaboards, something that will always come in handy!
Get your heads up and give it a go! You'll be feeling much much better!
Hugs xxx 😻😘
Thank you for your advice, which we are happy to take.
We are also happy to try and take the second advice - there are just a lot of issues here that make it sometime more difficult for us. But we are getting better and better at looking positively to the future and an advice like this also helps us!
Thank you very much!
@@patandfrankie look, when something goes wrong on a boat it's always a lot of issues, and the most heartbreaking part of them is, that you have to rip it all apart.
I remember very well the moment I had to rip my whole saloon area out. It was beautifully done but badly damaged by ingress of water and it couldn't be salvaged. A friend came to give me a hand. First I was shellshocked when he started attacking it with a crowbar, hammer saw and whatnot to get the job over and done with as fast as possible. Then I grabbed the tools and started doing exactly the same thing. We had it all out and down on the concrete in 2.5 days. The guy from the port came with his truck, I chucked all the garbage on top, then I started crying my heart out. Although it was only 2 pm I went to the harbor cafe to have a beer. For reasons unknown to me all my mates came back early from fishing "gosh, Dody, what happened to you?" We spent hours together with some more beer. They managed to calm me down, meanwhile I was a bit tipsy. I had an early night and was back up to keep going the next morning because I had to, to get going with the next job: removing my tanks, cables, pumps etc. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pull through.
Compared to many others you've got a huge advantage: your insurance company is paying specialists to do the job for you, you don't even have to get your hands in!
I know quite some sailors who came to grief on remote islands far away from any possible help and of course without insurance. The ones I know managed to get their boats patched up and afloat with their own hands and the materials they had on board and they all pulled themselves through it as hard as it was.
Try to remember this the moment you suddenly start to feel sad again. Being a liveaboard does mean that there are times when you've got to be strong. Compared to many others you are very privileged at the moment.
Hugs xxx 😻😘
@@dodystiller3718 Thanks for telling your story and your honest words! You are right 😊
Hi guys. It was hard to take the keel off my Moody too with lots of frightening sounds 😢 but it all worked out fine as I am sure yours will too. Btw the Atlantic isn’t going anywhere so you can cross it anytime once your boat is all fixed. Hang in there 👍
Hi! Very glad to hear you had no big troubles, it is a scary job to do/have done!
Thanks for lifting us up .. that’s a good thing - we‘ll still get the chance to do it some time 😉
Is that something you are also planning to do/have done?
@ it’s on my bucket list. I’ve been preparing my boat for 5 years now and I’m nearly there. Just need to install the solar arch this winter and fix my water maker then I’m all set. That’s if nothing else breaks in the meantime. 🤞🤔🤣
@@MikeBell-p7y Sounds great - we wish you all the best for this process!
Hi to Hi
Hopefully the repairs will start soon and the boat will be back in the water soon and ready to sail. Keep your fingers crossed for you.
Thank you very much! In the next video we have more answers after the survey and can make a bigger step ahead!
Never give up. Life throws lefts from time to time, but believe me, it gets better.
Thanks for your uplifting words! This is what we need to hear from time to time.. 🙂
When ya think that your life is a bit crappy, there is some one that is having a worse day, we love ya, hang in there, I will also.
You are absolutely right! Thanks for being here with us!
Think of the positives - now that the keel is off the boat can sit in a cradle much lower to the ground. Accessing her will be so much easier - no more climbing a huge ladder, more like walking hilly terrain than climbing the north face of the Eiger!!
The surveyors reports will tell all - keeping everything crossed for you guys, good luck!
Thanks - we’ll keep you updated! 🤞🏼
Hello? So sorry for you guys.... Great plans and then all this happens. Maybe, while you have some time on your hands, you could maybe make an episode on how you came to choose this particular boat, the size, the equipment you chose: a tech video where you could give us wanabe sailors across a great ocean some insights on your decision process.. Thanks in advance and take care
Hi, thank you so much for your comment and this idea. We’re happy to take your suggestion into consideration and will see how we can do it. We think it is maybe when we live on the boat again. In the meantime, we have a few videos that might answer at least some of your questions. For example this one: ua-cam.com/video/hskhkNKfBRY/v-deo.html
It is always tough for any sailor to get their head around significant damage to their vessel and home, then the process of disassembly can be sickening and repair endless. Focus on the opportunity this provides... strengthening the keel subframe and attachment to the hull, check all aspects of your spade rudder, review or remove and refit the holes and shaft bearings. With the mast down, check all the fittings as it's the best time to replace worn components. With a thorough check you'll be good to go knowing you have a reliable yacht to cross the Atlantic, whenever time allows and you will understand more about your yacht and how to maintain it.
holes="through holes" 😯
You are right, it’s definitely also a chance!!
All the work is going as I expected.The boat yard seem to be doing the job correctly. Its amazing how strong the Sika Flex is, holding the keel with no bolts . This is normal. You should have tried to find a ride on another boat for the ARC. You would have gained some experience about what to expect when you do it with HI.Also the time away from the boat could help lower your stress levels. For the type of damage the boat suffered it all seems to be going normal. All the best from Norway.
Hi, well nice to hear this doesn’t surprise you in a negative way 😉 We were also amazed by the gluing affect!! All the best to you back to Norway!
Is it not maybe possible to join another boat for the arc crossing, just to give you the experience and break away, fly back afterwards with renewed strength to tackle the many jobs ahead. Then you’d be even more prepared for next year - big hugs 🤗
Thank you for your comment. Yes, in principle it would be possible or even with friends who have sailed now. We have also thought about it several times. However, we want to be close by during this very complex repair process so that we can react. We want to achieve the best possible result and have therefore decided not to be absent for a month.
Greta and Vagabond were going East ,much different. I feel so bad for you guys,a terrible thing to happen. Don’t worry about the ARC, too many boats in one place at one time. I have done two crossings and wouldn’t dream of going in the ARC. Chins up and good luck.
Thank you for your comment and the encouraging words. We will also see whether we will try the ARC again or whether we will sail alone. But first we have to repair Hi and then see how it feels for us.
Best of luck with the survey.
Thank you 🙏
Probablemente en estos momentos esteis pasando los momentos más difíciles del proceso de reparación pues todo son preparativos necesários sin que aún no se vean progresos pero son momentos que hay que pasar necesariamente para poder acceder a las reparaciones activas. Hay que armarse de paciencia, todo llega. Muchos ánimos!
He continuado viendo el vídeo y me ha parecido que os estaba invadiendo el pesimismo...para nada!! barcos en muchisimo peor estado que el vuestro se reparan y navegan por todos los océanos. Pero si es de fibra de vídrio!!
Tiene toda la razón, el proceso lleva su tiempo y es un «juego de espera». A veces nos desanima un poco, pero intentamos hacer algo con el tiempo y preferimos ser optimistas al final, que perder la esperanza. Parece que se puede reparar, así que aguantamos. 😉
You may not make this years ARC however either on this repaired and improved yacht, or a replacement one, you can still do another ARC... And next year, you will be far more experienced... Kindness to you both...
We agree with you. It was just sometimes hard for us to get there to think like that.
That is definitely one of the best things about the fact that we are now gaining experience in every respect. Thank you! 😊
Hoping for the best for you guys. That being said, I hope the insurance company totals it and you get to buy a new boat. That keel design has issues and if it ever fails while you are at sea it's a complete and total disaster. There are fundamentally better designs out there. Go find one.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts .. and your wishes 🙏
Love to both of you from Sweden 🇸🇪!
Thank you very much! Best wishes to Sweden! 🤗
Things always look bad when you are taking them apart. It will be much better when they start putting them back together. Your flanged keel attachment is a better design than on the Beneteau I took around the world. It is more like the modern race boats.
We are looking forward to the day when everything will be put back together. 😉
Brutally honest video! Plan for the ARC 2025 or miss the ARC and sail to Brazil from Cabo Verde.
We are touched that we were able to take you along! Sharing this journey in an honest way is very important to us.. 🙂 We will make new plans, and who knows, maybe it’s a possibility to do it differently than originally planed. Have you sailed that passage to Brazil?
@patandfrankie Yes we spent last year in Brazil, sailing from Mindelo Cabo Verde to Salvador. In Salvador stay at the marina by the fort. It is not expensive. Then you can sail to Curacao for hurricane season.
@@rainfinger Thanks for the advice! Sounds like a great experience and we hope you had a great time! We will consider it when the repairs to Hi are completed.
What happened to the boat? How did it come to be so damaged.
When craning out for routine inspection the whole weight of the boat was allowed to rest on the front point of the keel and loud cracking was heard from the timbers and fibreglass of the keel matrix under the cabin floor. Understanding of an armchair enthusiast.
Good luck and keep your chin up as we say here in New Zealand.
Thanks 🥰
Less drama please , keep the video focused on the damage and repair 👍
Thank you for your honest comment. We accept your opinion, but we don't make any extra drama, it's important for us to show how it really feels for us and what phases we go through - technically and emotionally.
Now you making progress, it’s very common that the Sika bonds to the hull and removing keel creates lots of delam, just rebuild. Can’t say I like that recessed keel flange, it adds to the problem. You also need to get some of that electrical equipment out of the bilge in case of some bilge water, just raise all electrical about 300mm. Since you have to redo floor, get rid of all the wood that the floorboard sit on, raise grid and stringers to allow for floor boards to all come out with only screws. Just have a look at modern boats in the yard, that system is ridiculous. You could have a much stronger grid with closer support of the keel. There are keel bolts that are not direct on a stringer, that’s not good and worth attending to.
Thanks for your interesting input!!
@ I can’t recall seeing a sail boat with keel bolts that do not penetrate a stringer for support.
@@larrymeyer2917 In our case, they pass through a steel structure that lies above the stringers.
I hope you both find New Zealand would be a great place to live. Simply because it is.
Sometimes things get bad before they get better.
We would love to sail to New Zealand some time or get the chance the experience it in another way 😊
Pat sounds just like Werner Herzog!!! "The Birds Don't Sing, They Screech in Pain"
😂
@@patandfrankie I did mean that as a compliment :) Great voice! Thank you for sharing your experience and I wish you both the best!
@@drcornelius8275 thanks! Frankie had a good laugh but also said is voice is quite relaxing 😉
Don't give up!
We won’t 🫶 thanks!
You are young and positive, there will be other ARCs
Thats true 😄👍
There is no need to go with the ARC, sailors have crossed the Atlantic for over 100 years without. What's more: the ARC is leaving the Canary Islands very early in the season at a time when the risk of hurricanes is not over yet and the trade winds are still pretty fragile.
It's only for the convenience of the crews that they choose this early time, so (nearly) everyone can have his Xmas in the Caribbean.
Still, right now is not the proper time to make any plans. First the boat needs to be fixed!
Xxx 😻😘
@@dodystiller3718 That's right - thank you very much! One step at a time.
Sorry to ask but was this keel damaged from running aground or a manufacturing issue?
In any case, we didn't touch the ground. We can't say any more about this yet, as an expert opinion is still being prepared and we don't want to make any assumptions.
I’m late coming to your videos. That boat was inferior to start and should be totaled. Was there an insurance survey done? What was the result?
Hi! Good to have you here! We will be able to share survey results this upcoming weekend.
I would not want to sail that boat any more after what had happened...
The keel structure is the boat's main strength !
We are already curious to see how we will feel about it.
Is there Keel Maker where you Two live? Any thoughts adding Weight to the Ballast so you Can shorten your long Keel? Good luck on the Repair. Try Hybrid Fiber instead of Fiberglass. Hybrid fiber is a lot Stronger
Thanks for your advice. So we live on the boat - this is our home. At the moment we are moving from apartment to friends back to apartments.
Take a definitive decision not to cross the Atlantic this year and wait for next year. That way your stress level will go down and you will see the future more positively. Good luck, Richard
Many thanks for your advice!
I wish you both the best of luck…
Thank you very much! We appreciate it 🙏
Now is the time for you both to be as very patient and very calm as possible. Meditation recommended. Deal only in facts and reality. Look only to a safe and robust outcome. You could do with some experienced independent advice following the delivery of the surveyors reports (try reaching out to the Evans's - they have been there and done it. As I recall they made a really good and extra strong initial repair, but even-so they had to undertake a 2nd delam repair later.) If the boats is repairable, endeavour to get the maker to provide a recommended repair procedure, even if it is not underwritten. What is clear now, is that any repair is not going to be quick. The repair has to ensure that the boat is left appreciably and inherently stronger than before the accident. A lift-out and hull support procedure should be sought from the builder, a must have. The decision regarding the Atlantic crossing was inevitable I'm afraid and you did right to make it. Other YT channels that will be of help - The Duracell project, Sailing Uma, and Sailing NV (particular the recent episodes regarding lift-out). I naturally hope for the best outcome - never lose sight of reality. Any repair should consider the introduction of carbon fibre elements to the bonding process to provide an intrinsically stronger structure.
Thank you very much for your advice and words of encouragement.
Just wondering, is the boat still in production? Can they replace the keel with a shoal keel? I am glad to hear you're having two surveys done. Of course that could really be confusing if you get two different answers. Best of luck!!
Thanks for sharing your idea. Our model is from 2010, so there probably have been some adaptations. Sadly the werft hasn’t been very helpful in this process.. The two surveyors will be sparing partner and will discuss together what the problem is and how it can be done in the best way. 😉
You should get in contact with Sailing Evan they had the same damage and fixed it themselves
We’ve watched some of their videos and enjoyed what we learned from that!! 👍🏼
Good luck
Thanks 😊
A heat box should have been built around the keel with insulation ,then a couple of heat guns shooting heat into it with 2 inkbird thermostats set at 180 degrees left for a day would have relealsed the keel ,done by many yards that know what they are doing
Interesting!
You may have answered this in an other video, but who is eating the cost of this refit? The boat yard or the insurance, or is it you guys?
This is not yet clear at the moment, but we hope that we will find a good solution. In any case, our insurance will cover the costs of preparing the survey next week.
Not sure if you’ve seen any of expedition evens UA-cam channel. They bought a boat with a blown grid they documented what all they did to refit their boat. Best of luck to you guys. Sometimes the biggest upsets in life make for a good story to tell later. I know that doesn’t help at all right now. I don’t know if there is anything that anyone could say to make it better other than , “we’ll pay for it.” Weather that’s the insurance or the boat yard.
@@epheljr1 Thank you for your words and your wishes! Yes, we know the videos and are in contact with them. Thanks for the tip.
We think so too, it may have been for a reason and so we are optimistic about the future.
Hey guys, I'm really sad for all your trouble, but try taking it as a blessing, that it happened now and not in the middle of the Atlantic. The repair you are about to do is really common here in Sweden where I live due to a lot of sailboats and very rocky and hard navigated sea. I can also see that your boat have lived in Sweden before you got it. My boat was repaired last winter and it was worse than yours. It was a Maxi 38+ that split the liner after a hard grounding and it was repaired exactly like the boat in the link below, at the same place. Even the keel was bent lengtwise in the foot that bolts to the boat.😬 Just know that if you repair correctly you will have a much better boat that will hold up much better in both weather and ,god forbid, you find a rock. take care and feel free to message me if you have any questions.
Link to Sailing Aurora, great explanation of their repair!
ua-cam.com/play/PL-zpPPUr__MIc_fWi3nMpmPYhjbGmme4Q.html&si=C8eiwhMAkwPQep-l
Hi, thanks for your message! We have heard like you say that in the Nordics it is not so uncommon & we have watched the Sailing Aurora videos on the 2 day this happened 😄 Thanks! All the best to you in Sweden!
Keep your spirits up. The keel damage is just the worst of luck, and it might even be a problem in the original build. After fixing it, the boat will be better than new. I hope that you get the repair going as fast as possible. To make it faster, you can make new floor boards using the old ones as templates.
All good to you.
Thank you for your kind words! That can definitely be possible - we will find it out with the survey.
That was also our idea to use the floor boards as a template - otherwise it will be a tough one. Thanks 😉
Unfortunately, this notion is naive and does not correspond to reality. Such damage can never be repaired safely. I have too much personal experience for that.
@thomasescape3002 I sail in the Baltic, and I have many friends who have had similar damage from hitting rocks. You can absolutely fix it. 2 seasons a go my friends hanse 40 was fixed and no issues after the repair. Many manufacturers use clues to attach the grid when you repair it. Laminating over you will end up with a stronger boat. One friend even drove a bavaria 35 match to the rocks 6,5 knots, and it came just fine after fixing it. It is a big job but the cost is small compared to the value of the boat.
@@thomasescape3002 That is simply not true. Fibreglass is one of the most easily repaired mediums out there that yachts are made of and can be safely repaired with experienced crews. Fibreglass yachts are rebuilt worldwide. This is an opportunity to turn this vessel into a stronger cruising yacht by rebuilding the keel subframe and improving its bonding to the hull. Destroying the interior is always a tough thing to do and to watch the disassembly, but access to do full inspection and appropriate repairs is essential to make lasting repairs.
@antc5010 Tour opinion, but noth évidence based, sorry
It would be so great if you could somehow get Brett and Jade from Expedition Evans to consult with you on this. They had a very similar situation and repaired all the damage. Even if you aren't going to do the work, I am betting they may have advice that could save you a lot of trial and error. Hang in there!
Thank you very much! We have seen their videos and that has definitely helped us already.
Sailing Aurora is another channel that had a keel grid repair following a grounding of their Hanse 388 that may be worth watching.
@@antc5010Thanks!
To reinforce the bottoms properly and re-glue the counter-mould, the hull would have to be placed in shapers. Not just placed on four points.
If I were you, I'd forget about this wreck and all the worries that go with it, take the insurance money and buy a real travel boat, smaller, seaworthier and stronger.
Thanks for your opinion. But it doesn’t seem that she is a total loss.
I would try to avoid getting depressed. All it will come to is decision making. And if there are any doubts, go find another vessel, hard as it may be. That's it. Rather than taking the risk for something you did not cause, I would begin, looking for another vessels, there are plenty out there. I would avoid buying one with a similar keel construction.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts 💭 we are working on our mindset and some days are really good & some are harder 😉
I liked Michael's comment below as I agree with him. Apart from one thing. He would ask the manufacturer to supply a new matrix or keel grid. I think the boat was not built bullit proof, so the boat would still be vulnerable. A reinforced grid could to do the trick. However, your plan is to cross oceans with her. I could give you my opinion but will the two of you feel safe mid ocean in 30+ knots?
On the other hand, you feel sad about missing the ARC. As far as I know that takes you to St Lucia. The Caribic. Now a very personal note. I hate it. It is loud, crowded, and completely taken over by tourism and criminal minds. Been there, done it, but never again. But OK, if you insist on going there, you have my blessings.
Looking forward to the views of the two independent surveyors. Keep it up guys!
Hi and thanks for sharing your thoughts we us! Sadly all the effort we put into contacting the ship werft was unsuccessful. Quite disappointed as we’ve heard of other manufacturers that really helped their (ex-)customers out with technical information, etc.
I think many people share your opinion about the Caribbean. We believer there will probably nice places and others that are not so nice and then we’d move onwards. 😉 All the best to you!
❤ trust and it will happen!
Thank you ❤️
OK, the ARC this year is nonsense - your decision was according. BUT - what's about next year? You are young.
Pat - about the mast: Try to figure out how old the shrouds are. I heard that some insurances request it not to be older than xx years. Perhaps a good time to thing about new ones.
As EVA (Evans) and Aurora - your boat will be much sturdier than before.
Try to find some physical reference point inside the boat. For me it's hard to imagine the dimensions on that repair. You want to add several layers of glass on the structure. On one hand you have to sand much down - perhaps you may gain some space for the new glass if your (white) bottom may be thinner in the future. Since the yard glued so much of that bottom - perhaps glass the new one in.
A very weak point: would have been much worse if something like that happened under way. Perhaps better there on ground.
Thats true! 🙂
Thanks for your advice with the shrouds and the other advice - the shrouds are only 3 years old. But we'll use the time now to check everything again!
Being a large sail boat owner for many years, I cannot understand why someone would throw there money in to such a flimsy structure on such a major component of a keel, that is simply bolted on to such a large structure as the hull ! The massive forces of sailing cause the keel to have massive strain on the mounting points with such a flimsy structural internal mounts.
This is clearly not a blue water sailing yacht being a flimsy keel mount with a heavy wieght bulb on the bottem, crazy. Sell it and by a proper blue water long keel stem to stern yacht. These thin bulb keels should be outlawed, as the only people that benafit is the manufacturer's profits, such a poor design!
thanks for sharing your thoughts on that..
I truly feel sorry having been in a similar situation but much less a few decades ago. But if it's an insurance job, why are you both undertaking such heartbreaking preparation work yourselves. Surely you are better to leave it in the hands of the insurer now and let the professionals get on with their work although I'm surprised your boat hasn't been declared a total right off. But all best wishes and hope the repairs go well.
We hope you have come through this well.
Many thanks for the advice. It was important for us to be there, especially at the beginning, and to learn something new. When it comes to the repairs, we will definitely have to stay in the background so as not to disturb the work.
At the moment it looks like she won't be a total loss, but we won't be able to say for sure until the survey has been completed.
Fingers crossed you're boat will make it@@patandfrankie
@@cullypettigrewthanks!
Boats just aren't built the way they used to be. (Analytics comment). Pulling for you, hope you get back in the water soon.
We can agree, it’s something we habe learned in this process..
Thanks! 🙏
you may have already said ,but why is the insurance company not paying out and why are you doing the work not a boat yard.
did the lift out boat yard not take responsibility for the damage.
hope you can sort this work out.
We don't yet know what the result will be. The expert opinion will follow next week and then we may be able to say what will happen. However, if it is not a total loss, the insurance company will not pay out. And most of the work is carried out by professional companies and we only provide support if we can or accompany it in part.
I agree contact Beneteau, and asses the damage with them
Thanks for your suggestion but it’s not a Beneteau 😉 We have tried contacting our manufacturer but were sadly unlucky.
It might be a good thing to get away from the boat. Let the insurance assess it. Then leave any repairs to a professional company only.
Thank you for your advice. We will certainly do this as soon as the work starts.
There are many videos with people suffering yacht damage or they have ended up on reefs, rocks, or beached?
Thats true - We now think that this is probably part of it.
@@patandfrankie So you are saying, you could be the be the course of these ship wrecks?
No, we think that these experiences and events are (unfortunately) part of this life. At least that's what we've learned over the last few months. There are many ups and downs and both are part of it.
@@patandfrankie I was watching a video of Sailing Zingaro and he said in his experience there were only two types of sailors in this world who have not run aground, the ones who have never left port and the others liars, but the bad news is even the most experienced have done it more than twice .
@@patandfrankie I forgot to say the video i saw was called MAYDAY!! BOAT AGROUND!! - What To Do When Grouned & How To Kedge Off. He show you KEDGING it may come in useful for the future?✌❤🙏
A ver, no os preocupéis tanto, el barco claro que tiene solución y lo van a reparar, yo soy de aquí de Tenerife y veo muchos barcos que vienen al cruce del atlántico, y muchos traen los barcos que dan pena; sobre el seguro de que se haga cargo de los costes lo dudo mucho, el barco creo que se compró en Portugal, aquí en España te puedo asegurar que los seguros de aquí no te lo pagan (aquí un seguro de un barco cuesta 350 euros al año), aquí según la ley si la avería es antes de los 6 meses lo tendría que pagar el que os lo vendió. Mucha suerte.
Muchas gracias por su comentario y sus deseos. Si lo hemos entendido bien, esto es muy complicado. Tenemos curiosidad por ver qué nos depara el futuro y esperamos encontrar una buena solución.
At all other sailing channels on yt beginning with "we have to tell you something" two options appeared: They quit sailing or the girl was pregnant...
hahaha
I get that’s it’s an ongoing investigation. Based on what I’ve seen in your videos, it still seems like the yard was completely at fault. If you were in the USA, I would have recommended contacting an attorney and having the yard not only cover the cost of all the damages, but the cost of putting y’all in decent housing while the repairs took place. I believe had this happened to any other boat owner that isn’t as hands on or technical, they would be in a most worst situation. See if Better Help can sponsor your videos. Couldn’t think of a better one given your situation.
Thank you for your comment. We can't and don't want to blame anyone and nothing has been proven yet. We also ask for your understanding that we do not wish to make any assumptions. We hope to be able to say more after the expert opinion.
That's probably true about better help - perhaps we should try to win them over, as the concept is really good :)
I know 2 Grand Soleil yachts with structure problems and one with the same keel problem.
Oh wow, horrible to hear .. we thought they were know for better quality but hearing this together with what we are experiencing makes it a bit questionable for us. (Of course other boats habe these issues too)
Is this a GS 46? B&C design? I had one
@andreveen5656 yes it is.
I had a new one. Also some problems. But not with keel. But my friend which had same yacht (46bc) had same keel problem with a grounding. Not a huge impact grounding, it was on sand. But same problem as you have. The problem was the connection between hull and half carbon frame. It’s glued but it should be glued and laminated. So they broke out all stuf like your yacht and repaired it by laminating it carefully. After the yacht was better and safer then before.
My problems were also about the glue. But only with the chainplates of the rigging and the backstay .. they came loose from the hull. the glue was not strong enough. it was solved by the yard by re-gluing it all and then laminating it.
I thank God this didn't happen while you were at sea. May God bless you as you move forward in the name of Jesus Christ Amen❤
Thanks for your wishes! We are also very happy that it happened on the dry
Good luck.
Thank you!
the plus side to this is you have the opportunity to make the boat stronger than it was originally and that should give you peace of mind , I lived for 36 years on my boat and I regret going to land living , enjoy this part because you will look back on this struggle with fond memories
Absolutely - we always try to remind ourselves of that. Thanks for your kind words!
Wow, that sounds very exciting and we hope you enjoyed it.