Pat and Frankie, Hello again. Your surveyor seems like he might know his stuff which I am happy to see. It's great that he found the dry glass in the keel pocket area since you certainly want to fix that. Maybe as a part of getting to know your boat and to better understand the project you should get in there with your own hammer and tap and mark any questionable areas? As you have likely already figured out, good glass will have a sharp "ring" and delaminated or dry glass will create a dull sound when you tap it so there isn't much magic to the process. Production boats will always have some defects in the layup. There unfortunately seems to be a lot more dry glass issues with the resin infusion type methods than with the old tried and true hand lay ups. Your repair work will likely be mostly hand laid so there will be the opportunity to get a good look at the layup. Freshly ground surfaces are essential for a good bond between the new and the old. Also where the original shell is damaged, your new material needs to be "scarfed" into the original material. This is also pretty simple. Scarfing is simply grinding the original glass back to a taper which greatly increases the bonding area. I like when possible to go 10:1 in structural areas, (you will likely be told that a more shallow angle is ok. If you have any concerns layup some samples of old and new glass and break them to see how the joint between the new and the old glass is holding and then decide on the scarf angle that you want) if your original shell is being cut completely through and is 1/2" thick, the scarf would be 5" long. What you said about it being possible to repair this boat so that she is stronger than new is certainly possible and given your sailing plans, why not make this the primary objective? To build back stronger you will need to add weight but this is going down deep in the hull so at least is not raising the CG but it will raise your confidence in the boat if done right. Wishing you both the best. J&J
Hi Jim, Thank you very much for your comments and advice, which we are happy to take on board. This will certainly help us to better understand and monitor the further process. Nice to have you with us. Best Pat & Frankie
The boat should go on a ship, and straight back to the manufacturer for complete rebuild. This story is quickly going far, and wide, and if this manufacturer doesn’t make it right, suspicious future customers will choose another brand. This is the kind of story that puts a builder out of business if they don’t step up. Take the insurance settlement, and go boat shopping. If you keep this boat, every creak and groan mid ocean will stress you out. Sorry to see this happen. This is an invaluable lesson for future boat buyers. Thank you for sharing your story.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Exactly, it would definitely be nice to get support from the manufacturer. In the next video, we will briefly show you what our experience was like.
@@patandfrankie i would def contact the mfg. and discuss their help in what is clearly their contribution to the problem. ins companys stance on their willingness to insure in present state would be added leverage.
Perhaps the correct questions to the insurance company is 'When the fixes are done, will you put in writing that you will continue to insure the boat?", and 'how will the fixes affect the title?". Now to any future, potential buyers, "how would finding out that these fixes were done affect your offer, would you walk away, lower offer, raise offer? "
We have already asked the insurance company this question and received a positive response. We will probably only be able to clarify all other questions in the future.
@@patandfrankieIt's not difficult to effect a repair that is substantially better than new. In part that is a reflection of the poor quality of the original build, with most production boats opting for low cost solutions that are in my view and that of many others, not fit for purpose. Some do it properly: take a look at X-yachts keel attachment. This is why fin keel & spade rudder boats have a bad name: there is nothing inherently wrong with fin keels and spade rudders, but so often they are very badly engineered and constructed.
@@robertpendzick9250 The boat will be surveyed and will be 10x stronger than a new one ,nothing to hide or depreciate ,actually most likely worth more and safer
@@Mechone11 sorry but you're only correct if the surveyer is checking if the repairs have been done to the required standards of an engineer or naval. Surveys are not qualified to design such critical repairs unless they are qualified in marine structural engineering as well.
Guys, don‘t do it. Take insurance money and run. Gregor is fantastic and found also all damages on my cat. But instead 4 month we ended up in 11 month repair. I had huge luck with the fiberglass specialist that fixed my cat but that another big concern the repair is done right. Double the time for the repair as you will find more. That’s a monohull and the market is full of monohulls.
Good thing you got to find this out now. Take the money and run! No matter how much the surveyors reasure you, you will never have the same trust and doubt can be a killer of joy and fun. Your strength and tenacity are an inspiration to us all. At age 74, I am converting a 16-ft sailing catamaran to take a tent&bimini with two small outboard motors for cruising, camping and fishing around our amazing harbour and coastline. When things are not going well, all I have to do is think of you amazing people. Cheers and love from Auckland New Zealand.
The best part of this channel is the relationship between the two of you. Lots of love and mutual respect. As for the boat, I am with the others who don’t think this is the right boat for you and that you should cut your losses and get a sturdier boat. However if you decide to do the repair, first watch the entire series of the “Sailing Evans”repair. It’s very hard and dirty work. I especially worry about the dust inhalation even with the best safety equipment. You only have one set of lung. Is spending months doing that something you want to do? Either way, good luck and look forward to seeing what you decide to do.
Good that the surveyor is thorough and is getting the whole story on what needs to be fixed. Hope the insurance company will step up and settle things so you can move forward. Cheers!
after years of cruising, im still amazed that people will buy an exotic design with deep fin keels and minimally supported rudders. this boat hasnt seen any real service and is already in poor shape. it is hard to cruise the world of shallow inlets and barrier atolls with a deep fin keel and not expect occasional groundings. the leverage on the keel is enormous and your tradeoff of speed for long term integrity is a dubious one at best. repairs in the remote corners of the world will be of low quality and eventually this story will repeat itself with possibly a sadder ending. pl consider the long term ramifications of your present day decisions. apologies for being a negative messenger. all the best in the years to come. fair winds, k
You’re doing an amazing job keeping your spirits up, at least for the camera! You seem like a beautiful couple. Indeed there was a manufacturing issue. Not enough resin in the layup possibly the root cause of all these problems. Not a good look for Grand Soleil. Doing ultrasound testing makes sense.
Should look at what the Evan’s whent through - huge amount of work & effort, you have to ask yourselves are you ready for this. Great result in the end.
I just wanted to say that your both are great and I can't imagine the stress you are going through, but maybe it helps to know that there are people like myself that send you all the best wishes for the future and your boat. Keep your chin's up and stay strong together.
Great video, respectfully suggesting you only repair using epoxy resin, having grounded our boat is North Sumatra, epoxy resin repairs made our boat stronger for the rest of our circumnavigation. We also sanded the hull and painted it with two coats of epoxy resin, protecting the hull in any future groundings. You can make her stronger than before.
Sure, it will be repaired to be stronger than it was before it went into the yard, but that was clearly a defective boat. HERE IS THE TRUTH: IT WILL NOT BE STRONGER!!!! than the design. If the boat was built properly to the design, any repair would be weaker. Fact is, a repair, even with epoxy, is just a mechanical bond. The original was a chemical bond. When laying fiberglass, the whole thing becomes one bond. When you repair, you just have a surface mechanical bond. You can grid off the old glass and add more layers than before, but all that new glass is still just connected to the old glass with a surface level mechanical bond, which is a lot weaker. Don't take my word for it. Look it up. Do your own research. It's your life.
@@dodystiller3718 Prove it. I get my information directly from fiberglass repair shops. One thing you have to remember when getting information from inspectors or repair shops or insurance companies is they tend to have a biased due to business reasons. My source had no reason to be biased as they didn't have time to do my repair anyway.
Disappointing to see that the lamination had dry spots but good to hear that the surveyors had confidence in repairs. It's quite a roller coaster you've been riding on. 🐬👍
My long keeled boat 50 years of age, hull 2-3 cm thick. 4 stringers on each side laminated to the hull. Will survive all moden boats , built like a tank. I yad a modern boat 35 feet ones, never ever again. Interior was starting to move in big storms in the med !
I'm feeling for you. In a past life I did a lot of offshore sailboat racing in what was then called ULDBs. In rough seas, going up wind, the pounding is relentless. My gut feel is that your boat can be repaired and made stronger than it was supposed to be.
I would say the choice is not between fin keel and full-length keel or integral keel. You need to look at the length of the root of the keel vs it's death and imagine the forces at play. You WILL run aground if you plan to have the yacht for a long time and go along distance and also you may well hit a whale log or sunfish or something else. The root of the keel is far too short and the aspect ratio too high for the structure to survive long-term with these sorts of events which inevitably will happen. The keel root is also on an extremely large flat portion of the hull which is also not good. If it were me I would not think that this type of boat is safe for circumnavigation. Actually it is also not very well suited to some beautiful areas of the world which are quite shallow. Especially those with coral reefs. There are also many many areas which are not properly chartered and amazingly some of these areas have very well travelled such as the barrier reef in Australia and certainly French Polynesia. I would be getting a different boat with a considerably larger ratio of the root of the keel to it's depth and also one which is not as flat on the bottom because flat surfaces are weak and flex much more than something with a little bit of wine glass shape. Yes this type of boat may not have quite as much room inside and will be a little slower and may not point quite as well but it will keep you safe. There are a whole spectrum of designs between very old style full-length keels (which is an extreme I am not suggesting) and the extreme type of shape which you now have. I believe you can do a much better trade-off between speed and safety which would keep you happy. In the long-term and not cause you excessive stress when there was bad weather or after you inevitably run a ground however softly. Good luck! PS I would also not be risking lung cancer doing an enormous amount of fibreglass work as even the best protective gear lets some dust past particularly where the mask meets your face .@@energiegeek5465
Been following you guys for awhile I know it's hard but stay with it you got this its just a learning curve that all sailors have to deal with much love form our family to yours
W0W! I don't know how you two do it!? Just reading all the varying options in this comment section is enough too stress me out! Ha! You guys are such a great support team for one another!! I am following along & routing for you the whole way. ;)
Have you both watched "Expedition Evans"? They bought a damaged boat where the inner frame had separated from the hull. they had to remove the keel as well. Took some time, but they have since travelled the Caribbean and sailed the Atlantic and are now in the Med
Exact same issue with Evans... poor manufacturing leaving it vulnerable to easy damage through grounding or poor yard work. A lot of work... one difference with Evans is that they saved the money because they knew what they were getting into. Between your insurance and the yards insurance, let them have it and buy something you can sail... unless you want to do the work. I am also going to unsubscribe if videos keep being 2 parts click-bait, 3 parts emotion and only 1 part actual story content. Compare to Uma... they are almost all story content, even if it is a side-quest hike or a truck project... it is all content and when there is something emotional, they do it with intellectual honesty, not hamming it up for the camera.
@@bryanbuss1045 Thank you for your opinion as well as your assessment. Regarding our videos, we really appreciate your feedback and of course we try to improve. The emotional side is part of our videos because it is a part of us and our journey and we don't just want to convey pure facts.
It’s a shame these famous brands have consistently started taking short cuts and sacrificing quality and dependability for looks. Gluing the keel grid for example with “bonder” versus fiberglass lamination is a consistently shared themes in sailing channels. Hope you get the support from the insurance and manufacturer. VG !
@@patandfrankie Keep sharing the emotional side; we do the same on @travelsketch because the human impact is a hugely important part of understanding the fallout of issues like this. People can not be expected to be robots when sharing something that has such a huge impact on all aspects of your life.
I can tell you mine was repaired 8 years ago glassed in now instead of glued and is rock solid not a noise or creak down below .Like I said before to get the matrix back to the hull the boat must be hung to close up those cracks . The master yatch builder who repaired mine said it was 10x stronger then factory he also found glue that never touched during manufacturing .He would personally sail it across any ocean
Sounds great and we are happy for you! This feeling is exactly what you want to have after such a repair. It's so sad to hear about the fact that you also found poorly built areas.
Most repair work on these mass production boats ends in a far more stronger boat than when it left the factory !!!... They say everything happens for a reason, better now than later...🤔 Set a goal and aim for it, and it will be so !!!.. Good luck, I will be watching in anticipation of the launch. ❤👍⛵
@@patandfrankiewhich is a sad indictment of production boat build quality standards of which you guys are just starting to become aware. It's worse than you can imagine. All production boats with few exceptions have terrible build "shortcuts". Even boats such as Oysters have some build quality issues, though not the keel attachment.
Wow, what a stressful time! You’ll need to be absolutely certain that everything can indeed be fixed, everything. Can you truly be assured of that? I wouldn’t consider sailing around the world without 100% confidence. You won’t have peace of mind otherwise. You both seem to be handling this incredibly stressful period so well. Please take care of each other, we’re thinking of you both and sending our very best wishes for a speedy and successful outcome. Thank you for keeping us updated. ❤ from NZ
Thank you so much for your advice and kind words! We will take the best possible care and make sure that we make Hi stronger than before. We would be delighted if you would continue to stay with us! Thank you for that!
Me alegro mucho por vosotros pues creo que ha llegado el momento en el que pueden ver con claridad hacia el futuro. El análisis de los especialistas es por lo visto muy preciso y esto hace posible que luego de los arreglos tengáis un velero mejor aún que uno nuevo. Sigo manteniendo los dedos cruzados para que todo salga bien. Mis felicitaciones por vuestra actitud siempre tan positiva! 🤞🙂
Gracias por tu comentario y tus deseos. También nos entusiasmó mucho el trabajo de los expertos, que pusieron mucho empeño en ello. Ahora trabajaremos para hacerlo aún mejor que antes. ⛵🙂
I have just worked out where you are. We spent 6 weeks in that Marina before we started our ARC crossing. We now regularly holiday in San Andrés. Super people there and Spain’s best beech. 😀
Unsaturated fibers found around the hull of the keel area seems like the critical manufacturing defect. If that is so, the manufacturer, Grand Soleil should take care of the repair cost??? Lack of saturated resin in such area is a critical defect, I think.
I agree if there's evidence, which there is, that there is defects from manufacturering, they should warranty it. Of course, it depends on the age, and the insurance company should go after it to make it right
I agree. Keel boats show the boat was grounded. This will be the manufacturers defense. Some dreamer will buy the boat from the insurance company. Let him repair it. Go with the money find a proper sailboat for this expedition. It will be smaller and older but better built. I just went from a 1974 Hinckley 49 to a 1982 Hinckley 42. Both are still in nearly like w condition there are many quality builders in Europe or the USA
Ultra sound testing when the gel is still on can test for any other voids in the rest of the hull, cost £2-300. We did this on a 49 footer, found 20+ areas with delimitation, discounted the purchase price, had the gel striped, voids cut out, filled and faired then a full extra layer added of 400g bisexual glass, she is better than new, and for resale is proven to be sound. Took 8 weeks and £20k, but well worth it.
This is only the second posting of yours that I've come across.. Very interesting.. You don't mention the builder, it looks a bit like a Grand Soleil but I'm not 100% sure.. whoever built the boat, based on the surveyors comments, needs to be fully involved in the repair.. Also, the safety of many other owners is questionable, it's not doing anybody any favours by not making it clear the boat type and model. At least it would force the company to offer funding for a specialized survey inspection to other owners.
You need make sure that the insurers surveyor confirms that after repairs that the boat is as least as good as new. So you do not risk any higher premiums or discussions if something new appears. Insuring yachts is already expensive as it is. I wish you all the best and good luck. I am sure you come out of this stronger and with a stronger boat. I have seen worse boats.
not unheard of , when you heard the loud snap I knew what it was , I am so sorry to hear it , the other responses echo my thoughts , how will this damage affect the price , maybe wood is the best building material . chin up this is just a bump in the road
It's one thing to have a keel touch and to cause a few issues. I think every surveyor will agree that the keel touch did not cause all of the damage and the failure to bond in multiple areas is a failure by the manufacturer. They should be involved at some point. And if they say it's wear and tear or it's age then they're basically saying that their boats have a "use by date". Best of luck in all this.
Thanks for your evaluation. Unfortunately, you see this issue with almost all products these days, that some of them are no longer built the way they were a few years ago.. Thank you for your wishes!
@@patandfrankieIsn’t that the point here? You’re wanting to sail this boat across oceans and to really remote places. You’re going to do more than “keel touch” - you’re going to keel slam some time or other, it’s just what happens, so you need a boat that will stand up to that. I have to say I would be taking the money and running. The original build quality of this surely says this boat, even repaired is not up to what you want to do with it. The strongest part of the boat needs to be where the keel attaches and if they haven’t even got that right, what else is wrong with it? This is a coastal cruiser at best. I would be looking for a 20 or 30 year old boat, from back when they were built strong, and spending a year sailing her along coasts to find out what works and what she needs and then spend some money upgrading her. You will probably get such a boat for €50,000 - €80,000 and maybe spend another €30,000 - €50,000 on her. For €130,000, you’ve then got a really strong boat that neither the weather nor you can break that will take you anywhere you want to go.
Pat and Frankie love the channel…I’ve looked at a number of used boats over the years and have read numerous books regarding sailing and boat design…if you could get a reasonable check from the insurance company I would consider the possibility of purchasing an older used boat, perhaps not as “modern”, that could be more reliable and provide a better design for Blue Water, and avoid the hassle and stress of a rebuild project…Obviously I don’t know your financial or debt obligations regarding your boat. Only based on what I’ve read I would not consider many boats with a long, narrow keel.
Thank you for the feedback and your support! Since it is not a total loss, there is no such possibility. Thanks for sharing your experiences though. We will now put our energy into repairing Hi and look forward to getting her back in the water!
I really do feel for you both, you are both strong and I sincerely hope that the end result of this will be positive for you. Having said that, I am sure it's not just me who is really enjoying your content. Good luck both in whatever comes next.
Firstly, you are to be congratulated for your sheer guts and determination. Secondly, this is no joke and your actions may have saved lives in the future. The professional surveyors examination is revealing. The boat is badly built to the extent that the builders, in some countries, would be criminally liable. In my opinion, this is a good design and if built properly would really suit your purpose. The repairs will be done professionally and then the boat will better than new. And, as the surveyors have confirmed, safe enough to sail all around the world. Finally, the surveyors' report and the name of the boat builder should be made public for the safety of sailors. Lives are at risk! In closing you have done us all a great service with your tenacity. Your channel should be shared and promoted until you get at least a million subscribers. Good luck for your on going adventure
Hulls are made in a female mould. After gelcoat is sprayed on, the first layer of glassfibres is also sprayed on before mats of glassfibre is put in. This first layer of sprayed glass is too dry. Usually not as bad as this, though
First of all I wish you all the best and I feel sorry for you. What I do not understand is the fact that you seem to accept the poor built quality ! The fact that there are dry cloths in one of the most structutaly important parts of the boat ( keel area), should make you wonder about the rest of the hull/ deck. If they ( Grand Soleil) paid so little attention to the one of the most important parts of the boat ( quality control) , how much attention do you think they gave the rest of the boat? Maybe you should have asked the surveyor how to repair dry cloth throughout the hull, without knowing where the dry cloth is ( except the little part they found during the survey).
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. This has been on our minds as well. Having spoken to several knowledgeable people as well as the surveyors, unfortunately it seems to be a common theme now. The positive thing is that the boat will most likely be much more stable after the repair than before.
The accident may have been a blessing in disguise, as it revealed the defects that otherwise would have gone unnoticed. It's unsettling to consider the potential consequences if the hull had given way at sea. Once repaired, your vessel will be improved and more secure.
Sorry to tell: Around all stringers that have to be repaired you have to remove everything - hoses, cables and other installations. So if there is some more waiting time - there are jobs to fill in.
If it was delaminated under the keel, how can you be certain there are not other weak and poorly manufactured areas which have not been tested? The lack of quality control is very concerning.
Ultra sound testing when the gel is still on can test for any other voids in the rest of the hull, cost £200-300. We did this on a 49 footer, found 20+ areas with delimitation, discounted the purchase price, had the gel striped, voids cut out, filled and faired then a full extra layer added of 400g biaxial glass, she is better than new, and for resale is proven to be sound. Took 8 weeks and £20k, but well worth it.
Lack of resin is not to make it light it's a faulty lay up and was not wet out properly. It could also be the manufacturer trying to control resin amounts too closely for profit reasons. Whatever the reason it is unacceptable and obviously poor workmanship.
@@patandfrankie I am not sure what happened to my post explaining why it will not be stronger. I came back to explain it in more understanding terms but it's gone. Think of this repair as gluing together 2 pieces of wood. What would be stronger? A 2 inch thick board or two 1 inch boards glued together? When you build a boat, the final result, due to Chemical bonds, is 1 solid piece. When you repair a boat, the final result is 2 pieces (new glass is 1 piece and the old glass is the other piece) glued together with a mechanical bond. It doesn't matter how thick the new glass is, it's still just glued to the old glass. So which do you think is really stronger? This sounds to me like the insurance company is going to be putting somebody's life in danger, whether it is yours or the person you sell the boat too.
Happy and sad for you at the same time. I smiled and shed a tear or two. Lifelong sailor here that has limited experience with fiberglass work. It is tedious, it is uncomfortable, but it is doable by even a novice, as long as you have an instructor. Find out who the best fiberglass worker on the site is and hire him/her as a mentor. I started watching just before the two episodes that you took down. I've watched your progression. You've got this, it can be done. Your boat isn't the only one manufactured with the defects you've found and yet there aren't boats just spontaneously slinking. Once you complete the repairs your boat will be strongest Grand Soleil 46 on the water. I look forward to seeing more.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and thank you for your compassion too. 🙂 We will have the work carried out by a specialist company in coordination with our experts. We also hope that after the repair she will be better than before! We are happy that you are here! ⛵️
Bien, ya se van quemando etapas, aún falta acabar el trabajo tedioso de desmontar el interior, pero una vez hecho podréis comenzar la reparación, y entonces empezará otra etapa que aunque dura será mucho más gratificante y esperanzadora. Por descontado, una vez reparado será mucho más resistente y seguro para navegar en cualquier circunstancia. Venga! ánimos y no hagáis caso a comentarios pesimistas. Pero si total es un pedazo de fibra de vídrio, nada más fácil de reparar.
I think you have to put a value on your time/work. The rhetorical question is "do I want to be a boat builder/general contractor or a sailor". If you really really want to sail than maybe the economic (repairs cost + value of your time/work) calculation changes in favor of finding a new boat. Personally I really like restoration type of videos too 😊
Team work makes the dream work kids! What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger the lesson you will learn not only structurally, but probably more importantly physically knowing and learning will last forever and make you more wise. Appreciate the big and small lessons this opportunity allowed you to learn. It will be worth it when you’re sailing again soon with your own blood,sweat,and tears poured into it. Stay positive and thankful for the struggle. God is good! Blessings
So sorry this has happened but in a way it may be a blessing in disguise because it’s exposed manufacturing defects weaknesses in the hull, so the two issues are the damage done by the movers and the weakness from the manufacturing defects and how insurance or manufacture will pay up, however fiberglass can be repaired and one e done correctly this boat will be better stronger
Your young strong positive minds will get you thru this mess. Before you know you are watching the sunrise over the ocean again. Thanks for sharing & best wishes.
Worrying to see here the old claims that deep blade keels and no-skeg rudders on shallow hulls are not for crossing oceans. 100s of these types of boat do it every year; try looking at the ARC entries, or similar. Even Clipper Around the World boat hulls are flat and twin blade rudder. True the ride may not be as smooth as a long deep keel on a narrow hull. But it’s just not true to say current design production boats are not suited to ocean crossing. P&F, if you want some reference material supporting my view, let me know.
Thank you for your opinion on this topic! We also think that it is possible with a wide variety of boats and they all have their advantages/disadvantages and everyone has to choose what suits them best. Nevertheless, this process teaches us a lot and that is the positive thing about it!
Phew, if the strongest part of the boat was a poor layup what are the odds that this problem will be manifest in the rest of the build. This is a time bomb. Remember Cheki Rafiki. Their keel fell off and people died. I think the insurance company should write the boat off and pay you out in full. Then if the insurance company allows you to buy the boat back for pennies on the dollar you can rebuild it and you can take the risk as it will uninsurable.
Hi Pat, Frankie What a nerf breaking story! But look forward! [ ] Your learn very much even by dismanteling your boat. [ ] I follow the Parlay Survival UA-cam channel as well. This is something you must see. This boat became much, much stronger after own repairs. [ ] It looks like the repairs ended in two parts: the damage repairs covered under insurance and the bad structure layers under the keel. [ ] I really hope that also this repairs will be covered by the insurance or the company who made this error. [ ] Maybe you both can be of any assistance to lower the costs of repair. [ ] But the really good point is, not only the boat, but also you both, will come out stronger after repairs. You even know your boat better! [ ] Stay positive, save, and look forward what next year brings. Best regards Dirk
Take it up with the manufacturer. Lessons are, avoid deep fin keels with matrix support. Avoid spade rudders. Avoid sail drives. Buy a quality secondhand boat not a new showroom item. Will be better than new once properly fixed
After all of this I would have some serious questions to ask the manufacturer of your boat! If the boat can't be hauled and rested on its keel, there is some serious Mistakes made in the deisgn and engineering of a that as a cruising sailboat
Lagoon , Leopard , Bavaria , HH cats , Now Benetua . Its happening to all these boat builders , Cutting costs , Bad designs , Poor build quality specially in the glass lay ups . Iv had over 30 yachts , Delivered scores & am finding any built after 2010 /15 to be cheaper in quality some down right dangerous . Fin keels , Spade rudders , Saildrives all very nice & easy to fit BUT dont make for a world cruiser ? Good luck on your quest ( Had she hit the bottom at some stage 'hard') still doesn't excuse the bad sump Glass layup from the manufacturer .
The right way to view it is that you are converting a production boat into a seaworthy vessel. The poor production quality is common. The damage is common. The repair should not be seen as a repair, but as an upgrade, except you previously did not know to need that. Any other boat of that class may look the same.
That is exactly what we have learned during this time. You speak from our souls and we assume that this repair will make the boat better than ever before. 🙂
NO I think, you will not bring her back to her shape - after a good repair it will be much sturdier. What I saw with Aurora showed a repair far beyond good. For me Aurora is now much better that it ever was.
Do not walk away from this boat. RUN AWAY!. Poor build quality will not be limited to the keel grid. Cheap building is chap building across the building process. Even if you rebuild it better you still have an unsuitable design for blue water sailing. In some jurisdiction the law provides that if the damage is 50% or more of the insured value then at the owner's option they can recover the full amount of the policy. Find a lawyer who knows maritime insurance law and find out what your options are.
This is the best advice I have seen. I have worked for 4 different style boat builders (Wood, hand lay up, resin infusion and chop gun) and there is no way I would cross oceans in a boat with that type of damage repaired.
Most of the time when my boat is out I’ve after watching this video and the hell you have lived through. I will video record absolutely every single time. My boat is lifted. I hope the LEGAL process legitimate
I have been following your adventures for a short time now and I thank you for it. A question: where do these serious problems with the hull come from? What accident? Courage to you both!
Thanks for your message and for following us. As mentioned in the video, it's probably a combination of things. However, as we are still in the middle of the overall process, we can't say anything about this at the moment. Thank you for your understanding!
You want me to tell you; after that, I'm not ready to buy a Grand Soleil! Might as well take an old Jeanneau, Dufour or Beneteau or even Amel from before 1998 or after 2002! From what I was told, this period corresponds to the time when French manufacturers tried to increase their margins by reducing the proportions of resin before adding some after 2002! Maybe for Grand Soleil, the Italian manufacturer, this corresponds to another era
i hope Grand Soleil (french name for italien boat!!!?) will contact you to sort out the issue...it is likely that their customers with their boat on the market will lose money if the search engine is bringing your video for a search on grand soleil...internet is useful for that!
If people do their research, they'll find plenty of red flags about these issues with GS. Which doesn't have to be a problem, depending on how you want to use the boat and what your other priorities are.
Follow the advice of the professionals you hired, Pat and Frankie. There is a lot of extreme, reactionary advice in the comments here. It sounds like you’re not done investigating just yet. Stay the course and remain diligent. I look forward to seeing your progress!
Hey guys, sorry to hear about your boat. Fixing it might be a good thing as modern boats are NOT being built as strong as years ago due to the constant pressure on saving on build costs. It would help if you looked at the following channel, as they had a comparable issue and had to get their boat fixed. He documented it and is also available to reach out for advice and help. www.youtube.com/@SailingAurora. Good luck, and keep us posted!!
I am really sad to see the state of your yacht. With the bad fibreglass around the keel (a vital part of the boat), that is serious. I for one would not take her to sea ever again. To be sure that the rest of the underwater area is secure, you need to demand that they strip the Gelcoat from the whole wet area at the bottom of the hull. If they did it wrong, either temperature wise or material wise, around the keel, there has been terrible and unnatural stress on the whole area. Not only that, the gelcoat alone might be the only thing holding in together. Hammering the hull is not conclusive, you need an electronic density tester of some sort. So, if you consider repairing it, you should remember that you will not be able to sell it, when you are finished with it, assuming that the repair is successful, which I consider unlikely. SO WHAT SHOULD YOU DO? If you repair it, the only way to sail to America is to go with ANOTHER yacht....Search for somebody who would be willing to sail within 1/2 Nm with you. A lot of people do this for crossing the Atlantic. DO NOT DO IT SOLO....There is nobody out in the ocean to rescue you if you do. Take all the precautions and a big inflatable in any case and plenty of outboard fuel, for holding the dinghy head to wind etc. You will need satellite phone and short wave radio. The repair project is in MY opinion crazy....I would sell off the mast, engine, electronics and anything else if the insurer/maker fails to pay out. Cut your losses and run with your lives!!!! You are safer on the land.
Dry spots in the glass.. delaminations in the bonding and build .... Who knows what happened to that Hull ( Burnt out workers? Rushed build? Shelf life of materials expired? Who knows? ..... .
Seems like a combo of things. But a hard grounding I would say is how this all came to show up. I agree fix it your grid will be stronger then when built.
I agree with some of the other posts, the manufacturer needs to step up here and make sure that what they haven't done properly is repaired correctly regardless of the warranty period - but I can't understand why you keep saying that everything "you" have to do now, you shouldn't be responsible for the repair, the boat should probably be taken to a shipyard and repaired by professionals or? And remember, it's "only" a dead thing, you're both healthy and you haven't gotten hurt.
Thank you for sharing your opinion with us. Well, it is our boat/home and we have to coordinate the process, but we will certainly put the work in expert hands in consultation with everyone involved (insurance, etc.). That's true, we are also very happy and grateful that nothing worse happened.
We’ll you be able to re insure the boat I wonder?….have you got a commitment from the insurance that they will insure the boat to the original value once it’s repaired if you go down that route?
I do sympathise with the comment from Rwj378. He also mentioned sth about what I mentioned in an earlier comment. That, however, is for you two to decide. I think it is very respectful that the name of the builder is not mentioned in the last couple of videos. But, it is mentioned in earlier videos. For the viewers who are looking for a yacht to buy, it might be an good idea to check that and do not buy a boat manufactured by the ones that made a complete f*ck of this one. Excuse my Italian. It was clear that the keelplate was not fully saturated with resin. The keel hangs from it and the mast is stepped on it. Same for the stringers. This boat could have killed the two of you. I rest my case. I hope this ordeal will be over soon and that you will be able shortly to enjoy Hi again.
We absolutely understand what you mean. In fact, we have often asked ourselves this question and sometimes the question comes up again. However, we are now pleased that we can make her better than before with the repair and probably better than she ever was. ⛵️😊
Because the surveyor found dry laminate in the hull keel pocket then I would advise you guys to pull the rudder while the boat is out of the water and go through the rudder & steering system very thoroughly. In particular I would check the rudder blade for water ingress and the integrity of the stock. Many of the produvtion boats I deliver have steering issues. Most of the production boats with stainless stocks have rudders full of water. Many of the FRP stocks have problems too with overtorqued clamps or dry laminate. On almost half of the Beneteaus I have delivered there have been steering system failures.
I agree - but I have another concern: Many of the production boats have relative weak construction around the rudder shaft. So my advice, ask the surveyor what can / should be done there. I heard about many boats (some even lost) because of hard impact on the rudder - then crashing the shaft basis. So if the glass is all around perhaps doing some enforcement.
@@patandfrankie yes I know it's a GS - we have discussed this before, but it's really worth checking while you have free access to the rudder. Most production boats are "value engineered" to put it charitably around the rudder stock and I have experienced many failures even with quite expensive boats. It's worth checking very thoroughly. A well built boat does not have dry laminate around the keel box.
@@patandfrankie Most of the GS rudder stocks are stainless steel, though some are carbon or FRP. With a stainless stock it's impossible to keep the seal between the stock and the FRP rudder watertight as they expand and contract very differently. Most stainless rudder stocks leak into the rudder. Stainless is not good underwater when deprived of oxygen, especially with water temperatures over 30⁰C and it can corrode as fast as unprotected mild steel. I would drill a hole in the blade to see if water drains out. It's a ten minute job to drill and a ten minute job to fill the hole with epoxy filler. If there is water in there then you have a problem
Did Grand Soleil (CANTIERE del Pardo) had any contact with you about the issue? Because they know this problem because it happened before to other yacht.
Do you have any more information about this happening before? It might be very interesting for Pat and Frankie (and for those of us here of course) and might help them to get the manufacturer involved.
@patandfrankie If absolutely all repairs and improvements are documented with video (UA-cam) and signed off of with a licensed and respected surveyor then I would agree.
Well, this was eye opening, having a week spot on the keel foundation is unacceptable. However, I believe this can be restored even stronger than the original build, but at what cost and how much time. I am very impressed with how you two are handling this. At least you will know every aspect of your boat literally inside and out.
So if I understand correctly, your boat was poorly built by Grand Soleil and that's why everything cracked when they made the keel touch? Did you contact Grand Soleil?
The result of the survey showed us that there are some parts of the boat that were poorly built. We learned that this is sadly not unusual with the so called "production boats" and it astonished us. As mentioned in the video it was probably a combination of different factors that led to this damage and not only the building quality. Please understand that is not possible to point out one particular reason and we do not want to blame somebody at this point. We try to get in contact with them.
@@patandfrankieI would be looking very carefully at the surveyor you employed when buying the boat. I have seen so many instances of this damage from undeclared grounding. I have seen one tragedy where a boat lost its keel and the previous owner was sued - unsuccessfully- for manslaughter for not declaring a grounding when selling the boat.
@@deerfootnz Thanks for the tip. If we ever sell our Hi, we will definitely be open about the repaired damage. For us, the repair is more of a strength than a weakness.
@@patandfrankie When I sold the Hanse 430e I declared the main bulkhead repair and supplied full documentation including Loyd's surveyor supervision and final report and many photographs. It was no impediment to sale.
Many interesting comments. Those that suggest taking an insurance payout are in my opinion the only sensible ones. The boat was obviously poorly manufactured in the first place and you may have only discovered the tip of the iceberg. Even if repaired there will be that niggling worry in your minds that problems still exist. Whilst cruising in distant parts of the world you need to have complete faith in your boat. Remember also that quality repairs are not necessarily available in many locations. Insurance companies are less likely to cover a vessel that has undergone major repairs like this and the value of the boat will be seriously compromised when you come to sell, unfortunately exacerbated by the negative information aired on your vlog. Take the insurance money and buy a solid smaller boat better suited for a couple. This will also reduce your overall cruising costs. As a general rule of thumb fibreglass boats built by the well known manufacturers (Beneteau, Janneau, Bavaria etc) were constructed and fitted out to a higher standard pre 2005. In short, cut your losses and start again. Good luck!
I feel so bad for you. You'e not the first with a boat that was improperly manufactured. I'm too old to buy or sail a boat, but if I were in that position. I would research the heck out of these maufacturers and combine that with all of the knowledge I've found by watching channels like yours before I would consider a purchase. Good luck to you, and please don't let this destroy your relationship. Your bond is a lot stronger than some stupid boat.
If you can secure a good settlement from the insurance company, then consider this a valuable experience in truly understanding the toughness and seaworthiness of your boat. I’ve sailed all my life and currently keep my boat in the Algarve in Portugal. From experience , when you’re out in bad weather, there is no better reassurance than knowing you’re aboard a strong, ship type vessel. That’s exactly what you’ll have once the work is complete. Have faith in your boat and the journey ahead. Wishing you the best of luck. Safe Sailing !
good news ? maybe ..would i trust the boat with my life ? not so sure .....has this type of damage been repaird before ?.and is the repaired vessel still sailing ?.....i would need a gurrantee of some kind for the repair for years to come ...good luck guys x
Thank you for your message and your wishes. We have of course asked ourselves these questions too and we have now heard from some sailors and specialists that they have had very good experiences with this kind of repair. The boats are mostly all stronger and better than before.
Boats with this problem are repaired all the time & if repaired well they are stronger than when new! If the repair is documented and inspected it will get insurance.
Pat and Frankie, Hello again. Your surveyor seems like he might know his stuff which I am happy to see. It's great that he found the dry glass in the keel pocket area since you certainly want to fix that. Maybe as a part of getting to know your boat and to better understand the project you should get in there with your own hammer and tap and mark any questionable areas? As you have likely already figured out, good glass will have a sharp "ring" and delaminated or dry glass will create a dull sound when you tap it so there isn't much magic to the process. Production boats will always have some defects in the layup. There unfortunately seems to be a lot more dry glass issues with the resin infusion type methods than with the old tried and true hand lay ups. Your repair work will likely be mostly hand laid so there will be the opportunity to get a good look at the layup. Freshly ground surfaces are essential for a good bond between the new and the old. Also where the original shell is damaged, your new material needs to be "scarfed" into the original material. This is also pretty simple. Scarfing is simply grinding the original glass back to a taper which greatly increases the bonding area. I like when possible to go 10:1 in structural areas, (you will likely be told that a more shallow angle is ok. If you have any concerns layup some samples of old and new glass and break them to see how the joint between the new and the old glass is holding and then decide on the scarf angle that you want) if your original shell is being cut completely through and is 1/2" thick, the scarf would be 5" long. What you said about it being possible to repair this boat so that she is stronger than new is certainly possible and given your sailing plans, why not make this the primary objective? To build back stronger you will need to add weight but this is going down deep in the hull so at least is not raising the CG but it will raise your confidence in the boat if done right. Wishing you both the best. J&J
Hi Jim,
Thank you very much for your comments and advice, which we are happy to take on board. This will certainly help us to better understand and monitor the further process.
Nice to have you with us.
Best
Pat & Frankie
The boat should go on a ship, and straight back to the manufacturer for complete rebuild. This story is quickly going far, and wide, and if this manufacturer doesn’t make it right, suspicious future customers will choose another brand. This is the kind of story that puts a builder out of business if they don’t step up. Take the insurance settlement, and go boat shopping. If you keep this boat, every creak and groan mid ocean will stress you out. Sorry to see this happen. This is an invaluable lesson for future boat buyers. Thank you for sharing your story.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Exactly, it would definitely be nice to get support from the manufacturer. In the next video, we will briefly show you what our experience was like.
New boats seem to be junk not made to last .
@@patandfrankie i would def contact the mfg. and discuss their help in what is clearly their contribution to the problem. ins companys stance on their willingness to insure in present state would be added leverage.
Perhaps the correct questions to the insurance company is 'When the fixes are done, will you put in writing that you will continue to insure the boat?", and 'how will the fixes affect the title?".
Now to any future, potential buyers, "how would finding out that these fixes were done affect your offer, would you walk away, lower offer, raise offer? "
We have already asked the insurance company this question and received a positive response. We will probably only be able to clarify all other questions in the future.
@@patandfrankieIt's not difficult to effect a repair that is substantially better than new. In part that is a reflection of the poor quality of the original build, with most production boats opting for low cost solutions that are in my view and that of many others, not fit for purpose. Some do it properly: take a look at X-yachts keel attachment. This is why fin keel & spade rudder boats have a bad name: there is nothing inherently wrong with fin keels and spade rudders, but so often they are very badly engineered and constructed.
@@robertpendzick9250 The boat will be surveyed and will be 10x stronger than a new one ,nothing to hide or depreciate ,actually most likely worth more and safer
@@Mechone11 sorry but you're only correct if the surveyer is checking if the repairs have been done to the required standards of an engineer or naval. Surveys are not qualified to design such critical repairs unless they are qualified in marine structural engineering as well.
Guys, don‘t do it. Take insurance money and run. Gregor is fantastic and found also all damages on my cat. But instead 4 month we ended up in 11 month repair. I had huge luck with the fiberglass specialist that fixed my cat but that another big concern the repair is done right. Double the time for the repair as you will find more. That’s a monohull and the market is full of monohulls.
Good thing you got to find this out now. Take the money and run! No matter how much the surveyors reasure you, you will never have the same trust and doubt can be a killer of joy and fun.
Your strength and tenacity are an inspiration to us all.
At age 74, I am converting a 16-ft sailing catamaran to take a tent&bimini with two small outboard motors for cruising, camping and fishing around our amazing harbour and coastline. When things are not going well, all I have to do is think of you amazing people.
Cheers and love from Auckland New Zealand.
Thank you for your kind words. Since it is not a write-off, this option will not be available.
We send you our best wishes to Auckland!
The best part of this channel is the relationship between the two of you. Lots of love and mutual respect. As for the boat, I am with the others who don’t think this is the right boat for you and that you should cut your losses and get a sturdier boat. However if you decide to do the repair, first watch the entire series of the “Sailing Evans”repair. It’s very hard and dirty work. I especially worry about the dust inhalation even with the best safety equipment. You only have one set of lung.
Is spending months doing that something you want to do?
Either way, good luck and look forward to seeing what you decide to do.
Thank you very much for your feedback and your assessment. We know the episodes of EE! 🙂
Good that the surveyor is thorough and is getting the whole story on what needs to be fixed. Hope the insurance company will step up and settle things so you can move forward. Cheers!
Thank you 🙏🏼 We hope so too, but there is no final result yet.
#1 you both are safe and secure and in no danger !
THATS A GREAT STARTING POINT !
That's right, that is absolutely the most important thing!
Thank you for this video. I sympathise with you. Enormously. This reinforces my resolution never to own a boat built with a structural liner.
Thanks for feeling with us! Wishing you best of luck with whatever boat it is 😉
after years of cruising, im still amazed that people will buy an exotic design with deep fin keels and minimally supported rudders. this boat hasnt seen any real service and is already in poor shape. it is hard to cruise the world of shallow inlets and barrier atolls with a deep fin keel and not expect occasional groundings. the leverage on the keel is enormous and your tradeoff of speed for long term integrity is a dubious one at best. repairs in the remote corners of the world will be of low quality and eventually this story will repeat itself with possibly a sadder ending. pl consider the long term ramifications of your present day decisions. apologies for being a negative messenger. all the best in the years to come. fair winds, k
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! 💭
You’re doing an amazing job keeping your spirits up, at least for the camera! You seem like a beautiful couple.
Indeed there was a manufacturing issue. Not enough resin in the layup possibly the root cause of all these problems. Not a good look for Grand Soleil. Doing ultrasound testing makes sense.
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and your feedback! 😊
Go for it I think the boat will be even stronger x😊
Thx! 🙂
Should look at what the Evan’s whent through - huge amount of work & effort, you have to ask yourselves are you ready for this. Great result in the end.
I just wanted to say that your both are great and I can't imagine the stress you are going through, but maybe it helps to know that there are people like myself that send you all the best wishes for the future and your boat. Keep your chin's up and stay strong together.
Thanks a lot for your kind words-it does help to know that you (& others) are thinking about us and cheering us on! 🙂All the best to you too!
Great video, respectfully suggesting you only repair using epoxy resin, having grounded our boat is North Sumatra, epoxy resin repairs made our boat stronger for the rest of our circumnavigation. We also sanded the hull and painted it with two coats of epoxy resin, protecting the hull in any future groundings. You can make her stronger than before.
Thanks! We are pretty sure that she will be stronger after the repair 🙂 We'll make sure to use epoxy!
Sure, it will be repaired to be stronger than it was before it went into the yard, but that was clearly a defective boat.
HERE IS THE TRUTH: IT WILL NOT BE STRONGER!!!! than the design. If the boat was built properly to the design, any repair would be weaker.
Fact is, a repair, even with epoxy, is just a mechanical bond. The original was a chemical bond. When laying fiberglass, the whole thing becomes one bond. When you repair, you just have a surface mechanical bond. You can grid off the old glass and add more layers than before, but all that new glass is still just connected to the old glass with a surface level mechanical bond, which is a lot weaker.
Don't take my word for it. Look it up. Do your own research. It's your life.
@@FranklinGraythe mechanical bond using Epoxy is as strong if not even stronger than the original polyester.
@@dodystiller3718 Prove it. I get my information directly from fiberglass repair shops.
One thing you have to remember when getting information from inspectors or repair shops or insurance companies is they tend to have a biased due to business reasons. My source had no reason to be biased as they didn't have time to do my repair anyway.
@FranklinGray the manufacturer, West System.
Disappointing to see that the lamination had dry spots but good to hear that the surveyors had confidence in repairs. It's quite a roller coaster you've been riding on. 🐬👍
It is definitely disappointing..
Thanks for being here with us 🙂
Check the rudder as well. Looking at the keel dry glass, the rudder will likely be same. Wobbly or worn bearings as well.
Ok thanks!
You guys are so strong!!
🙏
My long keeled boat 50 years of age, hull 2-3 cm thick. 4 stringers on each side laminated to the hull. Will survive all moden boats , built like a tank. I yad a modern boat 35 feet ones, never ever again. Interior was starting to move in big storms in the med !
😦
I'm feeling for you. In a past life I did a lot of offshore sailboat racing in what was then called ULDBs. In rough seas, going up wind, the pounding is relentless. My gut feel is that your boat can be repaired and made stronger than it was supposed to be.
We are pleased to hear that you share this opinion.
@@patandfrankie FWIW - An easy to read article regarding some pros and cons of a fin keel - author Herb Benavent 2016.
@@patandfrankie Personally, I have no doubts about that either!
I would say the choice is not between fin keel and full-length keel or integral keel.
You need to look at the length of the root of the keel vs it's death and imagine the forces at play. You WILL run aground if you plan to have the yacht for a long time and go along distance and also you may well hit a whale log or sunfish or something else. The root of the keel is far too short and the aspect ratio too high for the structure to survive long-term with these sorts of events which inevitably will happen. The keel root is also on an extremely large flat portion of the hull which is also not good.
If it were me I would not think that this type of boat is safe for circumnavigation. Actually it is also not very well suited to some beautiful areas of the world which are quite shallow. Especially those with coral reefs. There are also many many areas which are not properly chartered and amazingly some of these areas have very well travelled such as the barrier reef in Australia and certainly French Polynesia.
I would be getting a different boat with a considerably larger ratio of the root of the keel to it's depth and also one which is not as flat on the bottom because flat surfaces are weak and flex much more than something with a little bit of wine glass shape. Yes this type of boat may not have quite as much room inside and will be a little slower and may not point quite as well but it will keep you safe. There are a whole spectrum of designs between very old style full-length keels (which is an extreme I am not suggesting) and the extreme type of shape which you now have. I believe you can do a much better trade-off between speed and safety which would keep you happy. In the long-term and not cause you excessive stress when there was bad weather or after you inevitably run a ground however softly.
Good luck!
PS I would also not be risking lung cancer doing an enormous amount of fibreglass work as even the best protective gear lets some dust past particularly where the mask meets your face .@@energiegeek5465
Been following you guys for awhile I know it's hard but stay with it you got this its just a learning curve that all sailors have to deal with much love form our family to yours
Thank you for following and the positive words!
W0W! I don't know how you two do it!? Just reading all the varying options in this comment section is enough too stress me out! Ha!
You guys are such a great support team for one another!! I am following along & routing for you the whole way. ;)
Thanks for following and the kind words! 🙂
Have you both watched "Expedition Evans"? They bought a damaged boat where the inner frame had separated from the hull. they had to remove the keel as well. Took some time, but they have since travelled the Caribbean and sailed the Atlantic and are now in the Med
Thanks! Yes, we watched them! 😉
Exact same issue with Evans... poor manufacturing leaving it vulnerable to easy damage through grounding or poor yard work.
A lot of work... one difference with Evans is that they saved the money because they knew what they were getting into.
Between your insurance and the yards insurance, let them have it and buy something you can sail... unless you want to do the work.
I am also going to unsubscribe if videos keep being 2 parts click-bait, 3 parts emotion and only 1 part actual story content.
Compare to Uma... they are almost all story content, even if it is a side-quest hike or a truck project... it is all content and when there is something emotional, they do it with intellectual honesty, not hamming it up for the camera.
@@bryanbuss1045 Thank you for your opinion as well as your assessment.
Regarding our videos, we really appreciate your feedback and of course we try to improve. The emotional side is part of our videos because it is a part of us and our journey and we don't just want to convey pure facts.
It’s a shame these famous brands have consistently started taking short cuts and sacrificing quality and dependability for looks. Gluing the keel grid for example with “bonder” versus fiberglass lamination is a consistently shared themes in sailing channels. Hope you get the support from the insurance and manufacturer. VG !
@@patandfrankie Keep sharing the emotional side; we do the same on @travelsketch because the human impact is a hugely important part of understanding the fallout of issues like this. People can not be expected to be robots when sharing something that has such a huge impact on all aspects of your life.
I can tell you mine was repaired 8 years ago glassed in now instead of glued and is rock solid not a noise or creak down below .Like I said before to get the matrix back to the hull the boat must be hung to close up those cracks . The master yatch builder who repaired mine said it was 10x stronger then factory he also found glue that never touched during manufacturing .He would personally sail it across any ocean
Sounds great and we are happy for you! This feeling is exactly what you want to have after such a repair. It's so sad to hear about the fact that you also found poorly built areas.
Most repair work on these mass production boats ends in a far more stronger boat than when it left the factory !!!... They say everything happens for a reason, better now than later...🤔 Set a goal and aim for it, and it will be so !!!.. Good luck, I will be watching in anticipation of the launch. ❤👍⛵
Thanks for your kind words! We also believe she will be stronger than before. We are looking ahead and thanks for your support! 🫶🏼
@@patandfrankiewhich is a sad indictment of production boat build quality standards of which you guys are just starting to become aware. It's worse than you can imagine. All production boats with few exceptions have terrible build "shortcuts". Even boats such as Oysters have some build quality issues, though not the keel attachment.
Wow, what a stressful time! You’ll need to be absolutely certain that everything can indeed be fixed, everything. Can you truly be assured of that? I wouldn’t consider sailing around the world without 100% confidence. You won’t have peace of mind otherwise.
You both seem to be handling this incredibly stressful period so well. Please take care of each other, we’re thinking of you both and sending our very best wishes for a speedy and successful outcome. Thank you for keeping us updated. ❤ from NZ
Thank you so much for your advice and kind words! We will take the best possible care and make sure that we make Hi stronger than before. We would be delighted if you would continue to stay with us! Thank you for that!
@@patandfrankie sure will, looking forward to your future adventures. Stay safe❤️
@@markdixon215 Thanks for your support! 🫶
@ ❤️
Me alegro mucho por vosotros pues creo que ha llegado el momento en el que pueden ver con claridad hacia el futuro. El análisis de los especialistas es por lo visto muy preciso y esto hace posible que luego de los arreglos tengáis un velero mejor aún que uno nuevo. Sigo manteniendo los dedos cruzados para que todo salga bien. Mis felicitaciones por vuestra actitud siempre tan positiva! 🤞🙂
Gracias por tu comentario y tus deseos. También nos entusiasmó mucho el trabajo de los expertos, que pusieron mucho empeño en ello. Ahora trabajaremos para hacerlo aún mejor que antes. ⛵🙂
I have just worked out where you are. We spent 6 weeks in that Marina before we started our ARC crossing. We now regularly holiday in San Andrés. Super people there and Spain’s best beech. 😀
Unsaturated fibers found around the hull of the keel area seems like the critical manufacturing defect. If that is so, the manufacturer, Grand Soleil should take care of the repair cost??? Lack of saturated resin in such area is a critical defect, I think.
I agree if there's evidence, which there is, that there is defects from manufacturering, they should warranty it. Of course, it depends on the age, and the insurance company should go after it to make it right
Grp looks dry of resin when you tear it. Common mistake by inexperienced people.
@au1639 As they are not the original owners they have no legal relationship with GS and have no hope of any sort of claim against GS.
Get a better boat
The boat was manufactured in 2010 ... 14 years ago. I doubt you can claim any warranty repair after so much use
I'm very amazed by your spirit through all this, Bless you both.👍🏻🙏🏻
Thanks 😊
I agree. Keel boats show the boat was grounded. This will be the manufacturers defense. Some dreamer will buy the boat from the insurance company. Let him repair it. Go with the money find a proper sailboat for this expedition. It will be smaller and older but better built.
I just went from a 1974 Hinckley 49 to a 1982 Hinckley 42. Both are still in nearly like w condition there are many quality builders in Europe or the USA
Ultra sound testing when the gel is still on can test for any other voids in the rest of the hull, cost £2-300. We did this on a 49 footer, found 20+ areas with delimitation, discounted the purchase price, had the gel striped, voids cut out, filled and faired then a full extra layer added of 400g bisexual glass, she is better than new, and for resale is proven to be sound. Took 8 weeks and £20k, but well worth it.
bisexual glass! you're a beautiful one!
@ haha. sb biaxial, but too funny to edit out. Tx.
@@antonysmyth2464 🤣
@@antonysmyth2464Its bisexual glass for ever more in my mind...
This is only the second posting of yours that I've come across.. Very interesting.. You don't mention the builder, it looks a bit like a Grand Soleil but I'm not 100% sure.. whoever built the boat, based on the surveyors comments, needs to be fully involved in the repair.. Also, the safety of many other owners is questionable, it's not doing anybody any favours by not making it clear the boat type and model. At least it would force the company to offer funding for a specialized survey inspection to other owners.
Thank you for your feedback. Regarding the boat, she is a Grand Soleil 46.
You need make sure that the insurers surveyor confirms that after repairs that the boat is as least as good as new. So you do not risk any higher premiums or discussions if something new appears. Insuring yachts is already expensive as it is. I wish you all the best and good luck. I am sure you come out of this stronger and with a stronger boat. I have seen worse boats.
We will try to get confirmation of this. Thank you for the words of encouragement!
Tell the insurance company to read the comments…. And listen to the wisdom of the crowd…
Next weeks is optimism…. But months of work makes it possible!!! Good luck and we will follow ❤ stay optimistic and push through 🎉
Thank you! 🫶🏼
not unheard of , when you heard the loud snap I knew what it was , I am so sorry to hear it , the other responses echo my thoughts , how will this damage affect the price , maybe wood is the best building material . chin up this is just a bump in the road
Thank you! In any case, we are looking positively to the future!
It's one thing to have a keel touch and to cause a few issues. I think every surveyor will agree that the keel touch did not cause all of the damage and the failure to bond in multiple areas is a failure by the manufacturer. They should be involved at some point. And if they say it's wear and tear or it's age then they're basically saying that their boats have a "use by date".
Best of luck in all this.
Thanks for your evaluation. Unfortunately, you see this issue with almost all products these days, that some of them are no longer built the way they were a few years ago..
Thank you for your wishes!
@@patandfrankieIsn’t that the point here? You’re wanting to sail this boat across oceans and to really remote places. You’re going to do more than “keel touch” - you’re going to keel slam some time or other, it’s just what happens, so you need a boat that will stand up to that. I have to say I would be taking the money and running. The original build quality of this surely says this boat, even repaired is not up to what you want to do with it. The strongest part of the boat needs to be where the keel attaches and if they haven’t even got that right, what else is wrong with it? This is a coastal cruiser at best.
I would be looking for a 20 or 30 year old boat, from back when they were built strong, and spending a year sailing her along coasts to find out what works and what she needs and then spend some money upgrading her. You will probably get such a boat for €50,000 - €80,000 and maybe spend another €30,000 - €50,000 on her. For €130,000, you’ve then got a really strong boat that neither the weather nor you can break that will take you anywhere you want to go.
Totaly agree
Pat and Frankie love the channel…I’ve looked at a number of used boats over the years and have read numerous books regarding sailing and boat design…if you could get a reasonable check from the insurance company I would consider the possibility of purchasing an older used boat, perhaps not as “modern”, that could be more reliable and provide a better design for Blue Water, and avoid the hassle and stress of a rebuild project…Obviously I don’t know your financial or debt obligations regarding your boat. Only based on what I’ve read I would not consider many boats with a long, narrow keel.
Thank you for the feedback and your support! Since it is not a total loss, there is no such possibility. Thanks for sharing your experiences though. We will now put our energy into repairing Hi and look forward to getting her back in the water!
WOW, you guys have such an amazing attitude through this whole experience.
Thanks 😊
Hi to Hi
das sied ja fast wie in einem OP Saal aus. Wünsche euch viel Kraft für die Zeit bis ihr wieder auf dem Wasser seid.🥰
Ja, so kommen wir ins auch manchmal vor. Dankeschön ❤️
I really do feel for you both, you are both strong and I sincerely hope that the end result of this will be positive for you. Having said that, I am sure it's not just me who is really enjoying your content. Good luck both in whatever comes next.
Thanks for your positiv feedback and your kind words. 🙏🏼
Firstly, you are to be congratulated for your sheer guts and determination. Secondly, this is no joke and your actions may have saved lives in the future. The professional surveyors examination is revealing. The boat is badly built to the extent that the builders, in some countries, would be criminally liable. In my opinion, this is a good design and if built properly would really suit your purpose. The repairs will be done professionally and then the boat will better than new. And, as the surveyors have confirmed, safe enough to sail all around the world. Finally, the surveyors' report and the name of the boat builder should be made public for the safety of sailors. Lives are at risk! In closing you have done us all a great service with your tenacity. Your channel should be shared and promoted until you get at least a million subscribers. Good luck for your on going adventure
Thank you!
You just have to think: it's better to discover the damage on dry land than halfway across the ocean. Good luck with the further steps.
So true - we are absolutely happy about this fact. 👍🏼Thanks!
Hulls are made in a female mould. After gelcoat is sprayed on, the first layer of glassfibres is also sprayed on before mats of glassfibre is put in. This first layer of sprayed glass is too dry. Usually not as bad as this, though
First of all I wish you all the best and I feel sorry for you. What I do not understand is the fact that you seem to accept the poor built quality ! The fact that there are dry cloths in one of the most structutaly important parts of the boat ( keel area), should make you wonder about the rest of the hull/ deck. If they ( Grand Soleil) paid so little attention to the one of the most important parts of the boat ( quality control) , how much attention do you think they gave the rest of the boat?
Maybe you should have asked the surveyor how to repair dry cloth throughout the hull, without knowing where the dry cloth is ( except the little part they found during the survey).
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. This has been on our minds as well. Having spoken to several knowledgeable people as well as the surveyors, unfortunately it seems to be a common theme now. The positive thing is that the boat will most likely be much more stable after the repair than before.
The accident may have been a blessing in disguise, as it revealed the defects that otherwise would have gone unnoticed. It's unsettling to consider the potential consequences if the hull had given way at sea. Once repaired, your vessel will be improved and more secure.
Sorry to tell: Around all stringers that have to be repaired you have to remove everything - hoses, cables and other installations. So if there is some more waiting time - there are jobs to fill in.
If it was delaminated under the keel, how can you be certain there are not other weak and poorly manufactured areas which have not been tested? The lack of quality control is very concerning.
Our experts have worked very thoroughly and we will try to check and optimize as much as possible in this process.
What is just as concerning is the lack of resin. These production boat companies go so far to make them light that it makes them unsafe.
Ultra sound testing when the gel is still on can test for any other voids in the rest of the hull, cost £200-300. We did this on a 49 footer, found 20+ areas with delimitation, discounted the purchase price, had the gel striped, voids cut out, filled and faired then a full extra layer added of 400g biaxial glass, she is better than new, and for resale is proven to be sound. Took 8 weeks and £20k, but well worth it.
Lack of resin is not to make it light it's a faulty lay up and was not wet out properly. It could also be the manufacturer trying to control resin amounts too closely for profit reasons. Whatever the reason it is unacceptable and obviously poor workmanship.
@@patandfrankie I am not sure what happened to my post explaining why it will not be stronger. I came back to explain it in more understanding terms but it's gone.
Think of this repair as gluing together 2 pieces of wood. What would be stronger? A 2 inch thick board or two 1 inch boards glued together?
When you build a boat, the final result, due to Chemical bonds, is 1 solid piece.
When you repair a boat, the final result is 2 pieces (new glass is 1 piece and the old glass is the other piece) glued together with a mechanical bond. It doesn't matter how thick the new glass is, it's still just glued to the old glass.
So which do you think is really stronger?
This sounds to me like the insurance company is going to be putting somebody's life in danger, whether it is yours or the person you sell the boat too.
Happy and sad for you at the same time. I smiled and shed a tear or two. Lifelong sailor here that has limited experience with fiberglass work. It is tedious, it is uncomfortable, but it is doable by even a novice, as long as you have an instructor. Find out who the best fiberglass worker on the site is and hire him/her as a mentor. I started watching just before the two episodes that you took down. I've watched your progression. You've got this, it can be done. Your boat isn't the only one manufactured with the defects you've found and yet there aren't boats just spontaneously slinking. Once you complete the repairs your boat will be strongest Grand Soleil 46 on the water. I look forward to seeing more.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and thank you for your compassion too. 🙂 We will have the work carried out by a specialist company in coordination with our experts. We also hope that after the repair she will be better than before! We are happy that you are here! ⛵️
@@patandfrankie If possible spend time watching and helping, you will learn so much. Love your spirit!
Thank you 🙂
Bien, ya se van quemando etapas, aún falta acabar el trabajo tedioso de desmontar el interior, pero una vez hecho podréis comenzar la reparación, y entonces empezará otra etapa que aunque dura será mucho más gratificante y esperanzadora. Por descontado, una vez reparado será mucho más resistente y seguro para navegar en cualquier circunstancia. Venga! ánimos y no hagáis caso a comentarios pesimistas. Pero si total es un pedazo de fibra de vídrio, nada más fácil de reparar.
¡Gracias por las amables palabras! ¡Ya estamos deseando dar el siguiente paso!
Best you guys come and sail to New Zealand, We have great boatbuilders here, I'm one 😄 NZ will give you a great lifestyle.
That's one of our goals 😉
I think you have to put a value on your time/work. The rhetorical question is "do I want to be a boat builder/general contractor or a sailor". If you really really want to sail than maybe the economic (repairs cost + value of your time/work) calculation changes in favor of finding a new boat.
Personally I really like restoration type of videos too 😊
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Team work makes the dream work kids! What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger the lesson you will learn not only structurally, but probably more importantly physically knowing and learning will last forever and make you more wise. Appreciate the big and small lessons this opportunity allowed you to learn. It will be worth it when you’re sailing again soon with your own blood,sweat,and tears poured into it. Stay positive and thankful for the struggle. God is good! Blessings
Thank you - there are definitely many positive aspects that we can take from this. We are learning a lot - both technically and mentally.
Positivity killed hundreds at sea over the years. Prepare for the worst then pray for the best!!!
The boat manufacturer must participate in this and take responsibility.
If the repair means to get a new hull then it’s fine. If not I would never trust this boat anymore. Safety first!
At least now you know and can work out a path forward. The glass is definitely half full and you'll end up with a much stronger boat.
That's true!
So sorry this has happened but in a way it may be a blessing in disguise because it’s exposed manufacturing defects weaknesses in the hull, so the two issues are the damage done by the movers and the weakness from the manufacturing defects and how insurance or manufacture will pay up, however fiberglass can be repaired and one e done correctly this boat will be better stronger
Thank you - we also assume that she will be stronger than before!
Your young strong positive minds will get you thru this mess. Before you know you are watching the sunrise over the ocean again. Thanks for sharing & best wishes.
Thank you for this uplifting words! 😀
Worrying to see here the old claims that deep blade keels and no-skeg rudders on shallow hulls are not for crossing oceans. 100s of these types of boat do it every year; try looking at the ARC entries, or similar. Even Clipper Around the World boat hulls are flat and twin blade rudder. True the ride may not be as smooth as a long deep keel on a narrow hull. But it’s just not true to say current design production boats are not suited to ocean crossing. P&F, if you want some reference material supporting my view, let me know.
Thank you for your opinion on this topic! We also think that it is possible with a wide variety of boats and they all have their advantages/disadvantages and everyone has to choose what suits them best.
Nevertheless, this process teaches us a lot and that is the positive thing about it!
Phew, if the strongest part of the boat was a poor layup what are the odds that this problem will be manifest in the rest of the build. This is a time bomb. Remember Cheki Rafiki.
Their keel fell off and people died.
I think the insurance company should write the boat off and pay you out in full.
Then if the insurance company allows you to buy the boat back for pennies on the dollar you can rebuild it and you can take the risk as it will uninsurable.
I would not use this boat to commit suicide in, it is too dangerous!!!
Hi Pat, Frankie
What a nerf breaking story!
But look forward!
[ ] Your learn very much even by dismanteling your boat.
[ ] I follow the Parlay Survival UA-cam channel as well. This is something you must see. This boat became much, much stronger after own repairs.
[ ] It looks like the repairs ended in two parts: the damage repairs covered under insurance and the bad structure layers under the keel.
[ ] I really hope that also this repairs will be covered by the insurance or the company who made this error.
[ ] Maybe you both can be of any assistance to lower the costs of repair.
[ ] But the really good point is, not only the boat, but also you both, will come out stronger after repairs. You even know your boat better!
[ ] Stay positive, save, and look forward what next year brings.
Best regards Dirk
Hi Dirk! Thank you for your positiv and uplifting words! We are learning a lot on the way.
Best from us!
🙂
Hoping you get a big win from this downfall🙏
Thank you, we also hope it's for the good.
Take it up with the manufacturer. Lessons are, avoid deep fin keels with matrix support. Avoid spade rudders. Avoid sail drives. Buy a quality secondhand boat not a new showroom item. Will be better than new once properly fixed
They didn't buy her new ...
After all of this I would have some serious questions to ask the manufacturer of your boat! If the boat can't be hauled and rested on its keel, there is some serious Mistakes made in the deisgn and engineering of a that as a cruising sailboat
Lagoon , Leopard , Bavaria , HH cats , Now Benetua . Its happening to all these boat builders , Cutting costs , Bad designs , Poor build quality specially in the glass lay ups . Iv had over 30 yachts , Delivered scores & am finding any built after 2010 /15 to be cheaper in quality some down right dangerous . Fin keels , Spade rudders , Saildrives all very nice & easy to fit BUT dont make for a world cruiser ? Good luck on your quest ( Had she hit the bottom at some stage 'hard') still doesn't excuse the bad sump Glass layup from the manufacturer .
Thank you for your wishes. No, we didn't have any grounding.
I would think if keel bolts are bent then loads were put on the keel greater than the design strength even if the glass was below spec.
The right way to view it is that you are converting a production boat into a seaworthy vessel. The poor production quality is common. The damage is common. The repair should not be seen as a repair, but as an upgrade, except you previously did not know to need that. Any other boat of that class may look the same.
That is exactly what we have learned during this time. You speak from our souls and we assume that this repair will make the boat better than ever before. 🙂
NO I think, you will not bring her back to her shape - after a good repair it will be much sturdier.
What I saw with Aurora showed a repair far beyond good. For me Aurora is now much better that it ever was.
Do not walk away from this boat. RUN AWAY!. Poor build quality will not be limited to the keel grid. Cheap building is chap building across the building process. Even if you rebuild it better you still have an unsuitable design for blue water sailing. In some jurisdiction the law provides that if the damage is 50% or more of the insured value then at the owner's option they can recover the full amount of the policy. Find a lawyer who knows maritime insurance law and find out what your options are.
This is the best advice I have seen. I have worked for 4 different style boat builders (Wood, hand lay up, resin infusion and chop gun) and there is no way I would cross oceans in a boat with that type of damage repaired.
Most of the time when my boat is out I’ve after watching this video and the hell you have lived through. I will video record absolutely every single time. My boat is lifted.
I hope the LEGAL process legitimate
I have been following your adventures for a short time now and I thank you for it.
A question: where do these serious problems with the hull come from? What accident?
Courage to you both!
Thanks for your message and for following us.
As mentioned in the video, it's probably a combination of things. However, as we are still in the middle of the overall process, we can't say anything about this at the moment. Thank you for your understanding!
You must make a repare plan agreed with all parties involved, manufacture, repaireshop, designer and insurance.
Thank you. This will be the next step and we hope that we can create a common understanding.
@ also to get a commitment!
You want me to tell you; after that, I'm not ready to buy a Grand Soleil!
Might as well take an old Jeanneau, Dufour or Beneteau or even Amel from before 1998 or after 2002!
From what I was told, this period corresponds to the time when French manufacturers tried to increase their margins by reducing the proportions of resin before adding some after 2002!
Maybe for Grand Soleil, the Italian manufacturer, this corresponds to another era
i hope Grand Soleil (french name for italien boat!!!?) will contact you to sort out the issue...it is likely that their customers with their boat on the market will lose money if the search engine is bringing your video for a search on grand soleil...internet is useful for that!
If people do their research, they'll find plenty of red flags about these issues with GS. Which doesn't have to be a problem, depending on how you want to use the boat and what your other priorities are.
Follow the advice of the professionals you hired, Pat and Frankie. There is a lot of extreme, reactionary advice in the comments here. It sounds like you’re not done investigating just yet. Stay the course and remain diligent. I look forward to seeing your progress!
Thank you for the positive words and for following us.
It would be good to mount load cell sensors on those pesky stringers to monitor any future movement.
Oh wow, we haven't heard of that. Thanks for the idea!
Hey guys, sorry to hear about your boat. Fixing it might be a good thing as modern boats are NOT being built as strong as years ago due to the constant pressure on saving on build costs. It would help if you looked at the following channel, as they had a comparable issue and had to get their boat fixed. He documented it and is also available to reach out for advice and help. www.youtube.com/@SailingAurora. Good luck, and keep us posted!!
Thanks for your comment and following our journey!
We watched the channel 😊
I am really sad to see the state of your yacht. With the bad fibreglass around the keel (a vital part of the boat), that is serious. I for one would not take her to sea ever again. To be sure that the rest of the underwater area is secure, you need to demand that they strip the Gelcoat from the whole wet area at the bottom of the hull. If they did it wrong, either temperature wise or material wise, around the keel, there has been terrible and unnatural stress on the whole area. Not only that, the gelcoat alone might be the only thing holding in together. Hammering the hull is not conclusive, you need an electronic density tester of some sort. So, if you consider repairing it, you should remember that you will not be able to sell it, when you are finished with it, assuming that the repair is successful, which I consider unlikely. SO WHAT SHOULD YOU DO? If you repair it, the only way to sail to America is to go with ANOTHER yacht....Search for somebody who would be willing to sail within 1/2 Nm with you. A lot of people do this for crossing the Atlantic. DO NOT DO IT SOLO....There is nobody out in the ocean to rescue you if you do. Take all the precautions and a big inflatable in any case and plenty of outboard fuel, for holding the dinghy head to wind etc. You will need satellite phone and short wave radio. The repair project is in MY opinion crazy....I would sell off the mast, engine, electronics and anything else if the insurer/maker fails to pay out. Cut your losses and run with your lives!!!! You are safer on the land.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Dry spots in the glass.. delaminations in the bonding and build .... Who knows what happened to that Hull ( Burnt out workers? Rushed build? Shelf life of materials expired? Who knows? ..... .
I guess you never know. We see it as positive, because now we can strengthen and optimize everything.
Seems like a combo of things. But a hard grounding I would say is how this all came to show up. I agree fix it your grid will be stronger then when built.
We are not assuming grounding, as all previous owners deny it and there are also several expert opinions.
@ not many experienced boaters can say that truthfully also.
@@c.a.mcneil7599 That's true - of course we can only rely on the experts, people's honesty and our own assessment.
I agree with some of the other posts, the manufacturer needs to step up here and make sure that what they haven't done properly is repaired correctly regardless of the warranty period - but I can't understand why you keep saying that everything "you" have to do now, you shouldn't be responsible for the repair, the boat should probably be taken to a shipyard and repaired by professionals or? And remember, it's "only" a dead thing, you're both healthy and you haven't gotten hurt.
Thank you for sharing your opinion with us. Well, it is our boat/home and we have to coordinate the process, but we will certainly put the work in expert hands in consultation with everyone involved (insurance, etc.).
That's true, we are also very happy and grateful that nothing worse happened.
We’ll you be able to re insure the boat I wonder?….have you got a commitment from the insurance that they will insure the boat to the original value once it’s repaired if you go down that route?
Yes, the insurance company has confirmed that the insurance can be continued.
I do sympathise with the comment from Rwj378. He also mentioned sth about what I mentioned in an earlier comment. That, however, is for you two to decide. I think it is very respectful that the name of the builder is not mentioned in the last couple of videos. But, it is mentioned in earlier videos. For the viewers who are looking for a yacht to buy, it might be an good idea to check that and do not buy a boat manufactured by the ones that made a complete f*ck of this one. Excuse my Italian. It was clear that the keelplate was not fully saturated with resin. The keel hangs from it and the mast is stepped on it. Same for the stringers. This boat could have killed the two of you. I rest my case. I hope this ordeal will be over soon and that you will be able shortly to enjoy Hi again.
Thank you - we are also looking forward to Hi being back in the water.
Keep going forward.
I am so sorry for you that this is not a write-off, as silly as it sounds.
We absolutely understand what you mean. In fact, we have often asked ourselves this question and sometimes the question comes up again. However, we are now pleased that we can make her better than before with the repair and probably better than she ever was. ⛵️😊
You guys should get in touch with expedition Evans. These guys had same issues and fixed it them selves on you tube
Thanks! We are in touch and we know the videos 🙂
Great vid
Thx!
Have your boat ultasounded to determine if any other areas of delaminations ord lack of fussion in the fiberglass.
Thanks for the advice!
Because the surveyor found dry laminate in the hull keel pocket then I would advise you guys to pull the rudder while the boat is out of the water and go through the rudder & steering system very thoroughly. In particular I would check the rudder blade for water ingress and the integrity of the stock. Many of the produvtion boats I deliver have steering issues. Most of the production boats with stainless stocks have rudders full of water. Many of the FRP stocks have problems too with overtorqued clamps or dry laminate. On almost half of the Beneteaus I have delivered there have been steering system failures.
Thank you for your advice.
p.s. This is not a Beneteau.
I agree - but I have another concern: Many of the production boats have relative weak construction around the rudder shaft. So my advice, ask the surveyor what can / should be done there. I heard about many boats (some even lost) because of hard impact on the rudder - then crashing the shaft basis. So if the glass is all around perhaps doing some enforcement.
@@patandfrankie yes I know it's a GS - we have discussed this before, but it's really worth checking while you have free access to the rudder. Most production boats are "value engineered" to put it charitably around the rudder stock and I have experienced many failures even with quite expensive boats. It's worth checking very thoroughly. A well built boat does not have dry laminate around the keel box.
@@patandfrankie Most of the GS rudder stocks are stainless steel, though some are carbon or FRP. With a stainless stock it's impossible to keep the seal between the stock and the FRP rudder watertight as they expand and contract very differently. Most stainless rudder stocks leak into the rudder. Stainless is not good underwater when deprived of oxygen, especially with water temperatures over 30⁰C and it can corrode as fast as unprotected mild steel. I would drill a hole in the blade to see if water drains out. It's a ten minute job to drill and a ten minute job to fill the hole with epoxy filler. If there is water in there then you have a problem
Did Grand Soleil (CANTIERE del Pardo) had any contact with you about the issue? Because they know this problem because it happened before to other yacht.
We tried to and the result we'll show you in the next episode.
@@patandfrankiethat will be very interesting, good!
Do you have any more information about this happening before? It might be very interesting for Pat and Frankie (and for those of us here of course) and might help them to get the manufacturer involved.
Even if ' fixed' it will be harder to sell THIS boat in the future.
We do not necessarily agree here. As it will be better after the professional repair than before.
@patandfrankie If absolutely all repairs and improvements are documented with video (UA-cam) and signed off of with a licensed and respected surveyor then I would agree.
@@ryanh4889 That's our goal to do it as best as possible.
Well, this was eye opening, having a week spot on the keel foundation is unacceptable. However, I believe this can be restored even stronger than the original build, but at what cost and how much time. I am very impressed with how you two are handling this. At least you will know every aspect of your boat literally inside and out.
Thank you! 🙂 Yes, it has definitely given us more clarity and we also believe that we can make them much stronger than before.
So if I understand correctly, your boat was poorly built by Grand Soleil and that's why everything cracked when they made the keel touch?
Did you contact Grand Soleil?
The result of the survey showed us that there are some parts of the boat that were poorly built. We learned that this is sadly not unusual with the so called "production boats" and it astonished us.
As mentioned in the video it was probably a combination of different factors that led to this damage and not only the building quality. Please understand that is not possible to point out one particular reason and we do not want to blame somebody at this point.
We try to get in contact with them.
@@patandfrankieI would be looking very carefully at the surveyor you employed when buying the boat. I have seen so many instances of this damage from undeclared grounding. I have seen one tragedy where a boat lost its keel and the previous owner was sued - unsuccessfully- for manslaughter for not declaring a grounding when selling the boat.
@@deerfootnz Thanks for the tip. If we ever sell our Hi, we will definitely be open about the repaired damage. For us, the repair is more of a strength than a weakness.
@@patandfrankie When I sold the Hanse 430e I declared the main bulkhead repair and supplied full documentation including Loyd's surveyor supervision and final report and many photographs. It was no impediment to sale.
Many interesting comments. Those that suggest taking an insurance payout are in my opinion the only sensible ones. The boat was obviously poorly manufactured in the first place and you may have only discovered the tip of the iceberg. Even if repaired there will be that niggling worry in your minds that problems still exist. Whilst cruising in distant parts of the world you need to have complete faith in your boat. Remember also that quality repairs are not necessarily available in many locations.
Insurance companies are less likely to cover a vessel that has undergone major repairs like this and the value of the boat will be seriously compromised when you come to sell, unfortunately exacerbated by the negative information aired on your vlog.
Take the insurance money and buy a solid smaller boat better suited for a couple. This will also reduce your overall cruising costs.
As a general rule of thumb fibreglass boats built by the well known manufacturers (Beneteau, Janneau, Bavaria etc) were constructed and fitted out to a higher standard pre 2005.
In short, cut your losses and start again. Good luck!
Now you can take a somewhat deep breath. Sailing Uma is doing an entire refit of their boat. Keep smiling you two!
Thank you! We do 🙂
Hope you guys get sorted soon and get back on the water! Interesting accent Frankie, is that a bit of South African I'm hearing? Zum Wohl!
Thanks for your wishes! We are working on it! 😉
Yes, Frankie lived in South Africa for a few years.
Best 🙂
@patandfrankie cool. Best of luck getting the boat back on the water 💪
@@torstenhein2979 Thank you! 🙂
Anything can be fix, if you have an infinite amount of money (see Notre-Dame Cathedral). But the insurance company doesn’t want pay.
I feel so bad for you. You'e not the first with a boat that was improperly manufactured. I'm too old to buy or sail a boat, but if I were in that position. I would research the heck out of these maufacturers and combine that with all of the knowledge I've found by watching channels like yours before I would consider a purchase. Good luck to you, and please don't let this destroy your relationship. Your bond is a lot stronger than some stupid boat.
Thank you for the encouraging words!
If you can secure a good settlement from the insurance company, then consider this a valuable experience in truly understanding the toughness and seaworthiness of your boat. I’ve sailed all my life and currently keep my boat in the Algarve in Portugal. From experience , when you’re out in bad weather, there is no better reassurance than knowing you’re aboard a strong, ship type vessel. That’s exactly what you’ll have once the work is complete. Have faith in your boat and the journey ahead. Wishing you the best of luck. Safe Sailing !
Thank you for your words!
good news ? maybe ..would i trust the boat with my life ? not so sure .....has this type of damage been repaird before ?.and is the repaired vessel still sailing ?.....i would need a gurrantee of some kind for the repair for years to come ...good luck guys x
Thank you for your message and your wishes. We have of course asked ourselves these questions too and we have now heard from some sailors and specialists that they have had very good experiences with this kind of repair. The boats are mostly all stronger and better than before.
Boats with this problem are repaired all the time & if repaired well they are stronger than when new! If the repair is documented and inspected it will get insurance.