Hooked VS Hookless Rims
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- I’m asked a lot of questions about hooked and hookless rims. We use both types depending on what the rim is designed for to maximize their pros and cons and a video seemed like a great way of explaining the differences between the two rim types.
So which is the best? Well....both....
If you are riding road, just don't use hookless and you are good to go :)
Spot on... stay hooked for high pressure rims until hookless technology/standards are better developed.
Fun thing is that the rims used to be hookless until like 30 years ago, when they developed they hooked-rims. So we are back to where we were for a long time ago now,.
Actually, Hookless rims are WAY older than hooked rims. Hookless rims was called "straight side rims" from the 40's to 70's when they invented the hooked rims to make you able to use high preassure in the tires!. So we are going back to 40's tech and paying for it :D
Good point Andrew! Hookless beads are a lot easier to make which is why early rims were like this. I've been hearing a lot of horror stories about hookless recently (not on our rims!) so I think it's time to bring this topic up again. -Tristan
hookless is tech for tech sake. there are no real user gains, however the gains come from the manufacturer. There is still no industry standard, Giant have only recommended a handful of tyres to use on their wheels.
Typing this in 2021 I totally agree with you! I think we'll see safe, reliable, standardized hookless at some point in the future but I can't see it being for years and years as it relies on *every* tyre manufacturer agreeing on some key elements. We'll obviously keep a close eye on the tech but I'm not holding my breath, and I think that a hooked rim is the safest, most practical option for road and gravel bikes. -Tristan
The other issue is regarding heavier riders who require higher pressures on road wheels. Not all cyclists are skinny as a rail and weigh 130 lbs, For us bigger riders, hookless just doesn't work.
Excellent video, thank you very much. Very very hard to find this quality of content anywhere else.
Glad you enjoyed it thanks! Stay safe over there -Tristan
Hi Tristan. Thanks for the summary. I'm interested to know where you see the the tipping point between what you define as low and high pressure?
Great question Michael but it's not easy to define and really depends on the tyre quality and it's size. For the 650b OG wheelset where we use a hookless bead we have a range of max tyre pressures depending on tyre size and these are on the safer / lower pressure end of the spectrum for obvious reasons. Some tyres will have no problem with higher pressures - For example we've found Maxxis gravel tyres to have really good quality beads and be super consistent (probably a byproduct of their excellent mountain bike tyres) so these tyre tend to blow off at a higher pressure than others. But it depends.
These pressures are listed on the product page for the OG: www.wheelworks.co.nz/og-carbon/
The appealing thing about having an approved tyre list is that you can simply say "tyre A at the rim's max pressure will be fine" and not have to be as vague as I've just been in answering :-D -Tristan
I say if its not broken, don't fix it. I like gatorskins at 90psi. I don't think I can ride that on hookless.
We had hookless tires before someone invented hooked tires, just cause they wanted to be able to use higher psi in the tires.
Has anyone found statistically which brands of tires cause problems?
the rims can be measured to the nearest cent when they come out of the mold and there is a precise common standard to be respected.
for tyres, on the contrary, there is no standard yet, the hookless coupling tolerance is the most important aspect to avoid these dangers ( second one 80s vintage pressures at 8 atm)
a well-known Italian cotton rubber declared hl compatible goes on a rim with just one hand, it will clearly come off with the same ease or worse after use, same for some continental years 2020-21 now modified and within very tight, suitable tolerances.
circumferences of tyre rings were measured with differences of up to 1.5 cm in total! how can we talk about a system that should be abandoned without a coupling rule?
as long as tire manufacturers have differences beyond the conceivable, system safety will not be proposed.
15 years ago the same MTB route, now standardized although without the push of common rules.
don't forget that rims will shrink in circumference slightly when the tyres are inflated, but as you say no where near as much as the tyres variability -TT
I wouldn't say I'm unlucky because I can't use tubes with hookless rims. I will be unlucky when that day comes I can't get hooked rims and tubes. That's the day I will quit riding bikes.
For our rims that day is still a while away! Tristan
I have to disagree that clincher tires are made from "lighter and more supple" materials, than tubulars. Tubular tires are almost always lighter than clinchers, and more supple, if built with cotton casings. The rims are always lighter because they do not have the "ears" formed on them, to "grab" the bead of the clincher tire.
I can see hookless rims on bikes that use 30mm tires. Hookless rims with 25mm tires seem rather silly.
This is true now with modern high-end tubulars, however when clinchers were invented there were plenty of really thick, heavy, crappy tubular tyres. -Tristan
I think the issue with road tubeless is as you said, tires and rims are not manufactured to tolerances that are exact enough. Thus loose fitting tires blowing off rims. I’ve been using tubeless on mountainbikes for over 20 years and still some tire and rim combinations aren’t ideal. I used road UST when it first came. I liked it when I was on Dura ace tubeless wheels with the Hutchinson UST certified tires. They were excellent. That first UST designation required that tires could be mounted by hand and pumped up with floor pump. Those tires also had carbon fibre beads so as not to stretch and potentially blow off. I think if a tire on a hookless rim fit tightly enough, that would solve the issues people have. Let’s not forget that regular clinchers with tubes can blow off hooked rims too. We use to see that once or twice a month in explosive fashion in the shops I worked at in the 80s.
I can see wheel and tire engineers discovered new legal marijuana. Unfortunately no one told them how powerful it is. I can see it already; ZIIPPPpp Zippp Zi Zi ZIiiiipp, hey dude, hey it's your turn, take a dragg dude... !!!... HEY ...!!! I got it! let's get rid of that ugly hook bead no one can see or knows about!!! Dude, dude, Duuuuuude, that's Awesome... Koool, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... .. .. . .
I'm a wheel tire specialist and that has to be the dumbest idea ever to go down a freaking Rabit Hole... " DON'T DO IT"! It's bad enough some popular brand tubeless tires already blow off hooked rims, but this takes stupid to a whole new level. It's sheer suicide.
We couldn't agree more! Hookless is well tested and proven on low-pressure mountain bike wheels but road and gravel NEED hooked beads. This will change at *some* point in the future but we're years away from it. -Tristan
Please stay hooked. Most of the people don’t understand and will not pay attention to very specific instructions and majority of riders with little experience will put more than 72-75 psi and that’s when accident will happen.
We'll be moving to hookless *one day* when tyres are consistent... but from what I can tell that's still years and years away. Hooked is safest for road and gravel with the only downside being they cost us a little more to product ~Tristan
Giant slr1 with cadex race tyres user here. Honestly couldn’t be happier!
Riding bikes since many years back. At first I was reluctant about this change but after tried I wouldn’t go back.
What tires and what pressure do you put in ?
Same here, I put as recommended by Giant, at 78kg body weight I'm using 79psi
I run them at 90psi. Update after 9 months... still super happy :)
hookless rims were used on bikes long before 2000s . have a look at the majority of steel rims pre 1980 they are hookless ,
Ironically this is because it was easier / cheaper to manufacture them hookless...just like now with carbon -Tristan
You could approve certain tyres and rims !? it's a lot of work, and you'd have to offer a limited choice.
You *could* but why? Why not just make a rim which works with *all* tyres? -Tristan
Does not explain hook vs hookless
My tire says installed only on hooked rims. How do I know if my rim is hooked or hookless?
Check out the diagram at 36 seconds
ua-cam.com/video/QpEEUHEWijk/v-deo.html
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Thanks
Proper order keep it hooked up
I use Cadex 65 with Cadex Aero tires & Zipp 404 Firecrest with Continental 5000 AS tr tires. I'll take hookless over hooked any day. The Mavic Comete Pro SL's that I use to use,were hell to work with.
Hold on ! I am NOT a ‘fan’ of tubes. I use tubes because I don’t want that garbage milk stuff in my wheels. Ever !
Here is my prediction: NOBODY wants to fiddle with sticky milk so hookless is dead.
I'll take that bet :-) Have you watched our video on modern tubeless setups? -Tristan
ua-cam.com/video/-WzoI9kgLO0/v-deo.html
Most mountain bikers are running tubeless setups with sticky milk in their wheels. That said, still a huge range of mountain bike rims that are hooked.
I’ve been running tubeless in my gravel bike since 2017. Love it
Completely agree. New tire technology, especially new GP5000’s combined with TPU tubes, eliminates the need to mess around with all the Phaff associated with tubeless in most instances.