Thank you to this channel. As someone who is a layman philosopher, but also a huge lover and nerd of it, this channel is a godsend. So many niche videos Idk where to start really! Lol Appreciate y'all
I guess one could say that the virtue of being careful about which words to use can lack dignity and fawn. As a Catholic I agree with David, virtue at all costs is a problem.
Interesting how Nietzche, at least, in this aphorism, prioritizes Homeric dignity, aka honor, over virtue (platonic: wisdom, justice, fortitude, temperance and/or christian: faith, hope, chastity). Also, doesn't this aphorism suggest something like Plato's virtue of temperance? Is it possible to escape the play of platonic virtues? Grr, that Plato guy really got me wondering.
While I don’t disagree with the discussion, I think there are other aspects of this aphorism that can be drawn out. If one considers the nature of being human as lacking either inherent goodness or evil, what is the response when confronted by some entity or being, that is inherently good, or virtuous? This can lead to a discussion on the nature of experience and knowledge in a fallen world, and whether experience enables virtue to be acquired. My sense is that it is these aspects of this aphorism that interested Nietzsche more than a show of excess humility, for example.
This discussion made me think of the film "Wicked Little Letters." I saw it a couple of months ago and the dialogue kept bringing me back to specific scenes from this recent 2023 movie. I don't want to ruin the movie but I'd recommend seeing the trailer or film.
The problem/feature of aphorisms is that it's more about interpretation than about an actual statement. They may be useful for someone to signal, while demonstrating their virtues, interpreting aphorisms creatively (what David did), but his suggestion to 'read more Nietzsche' may reveal his true covert intention towards his viewers 👻 We all know what reading too much Nietzsche may lead to ... 🙋👽 Do you think many professional philosophers tend to grow boastful?
Virtue is one of Nietzsche's favorite topics, he is a virtue ethicist. See the recent Cambridge Element Nietsche on Virtue by Mark Alfano. He re-evaulates virtue, of course.
You should do one on Aphorism 19 from Minima Moralia, "Do not knock." On the technification of everyday objects and life. It's the classic Adorno segment where he calls car doors fascist.
Would Christians even disagree with this aphorism? David (the king not the host) said “and I will become even more undignified than this” when people got mad he was fawning too much over the arc of the covenant. When I was growing up that was the basis of a song they had us sing in Sunday school
@4:29 Not to veer off-topic, but what's wrong with using the term "boot-licker"...? It definitely does the job at conjuring up a visceral image for a type of activity which deserves contempt.
The end put me in mind of what Kant had to say about truth-telling, which seems less Aristotelian and one of his more controversial passages, I guess. He seems to have been a real stickler.
Great analysis. Might Nietzsche, in taking a stab at virtue ethics, be critiquing the tendency in the western philosophical tradition to “totalize?” Nietzsche, remember, is a precursor to moral relativism in later post modernism. His disdain for Plato’s theory of forms is evident in this aphorism.
Help! I wanted the German version, in particular to see what had been translated as "fawn". But, 160 in German is a completely different aphorism. So, now what do I do?
Matthew 6:1-21 New International Version Giving to the Needy 6 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Virtue Is the place of dignity, for Love is its substance and apex; its cause and finality; its rule and its transcendence. Its sufficiency is our happiness, and through sacrifice it is manifested. Now Humility is an attempt to imitate God, Who, being Perfect and Absolute, praised us with Freedom, because He is Love. And even when we used it to reject Love and developed a macabre curiosity for anything else, He still tries to attract us in our every instantiation.
greaet chat. to met it speaks to idea like "we are gods because we are God.'s" or to respect the imago dei in ourselves and others, that we have to have some self dignity to own our "God-nature", but to not be fully G-d to prevent grandiosity and create room to grow and be open to feedback from higher ups. So its to fully serve the Virtue but own your own virtuosity or at least the sanctity of being a channel for the virtue. Christianity lets people openly nakedly adore Virtue, whereas it seems Buddhism for example pretty quickly deflates celebrating being the virtue condiut. NowI'm babbling. Ya'lls dynamic is great, a bit of an anxious avoidant dance in this one - contrast of vibrant floral sparks and a stable lattice for which it grow.
Neitches books read like a dark girls facebook wall. Good wall though. Good wall. Brilliant human. So far ahead of his time. He was writing facebook posts for all of his friends in The FutuR : )
I hate aphorisms. I love adagia - they’re like a clip of a movie. You first make the movie and then it becomes popular and some parts stand out. But what if you, as a director, just tried to film one clip? I mean, many advertising directors and producers create that funny or unique commercial - but quantity breeds quality. They need to film many for one to become famous or applauded. Most quotations come that way - they’re part of a famous book, novel, treatise. But you need to write a lot to write something good, in the same way you need to exercise a lot to have a nice body - nice aphorism!
It boggles the mind of this member of the working poor how two doctors and professors of philosophy can miss the meaning of this aphorism. It's a lot simpler than that. The passage does not need an elaborate exegesis.
Makes me think of people who virtue signal. They may not fully believe what they are virtue signaling, but more than likely, they are doing so to appease whatever group they are a part of. When one does this, they lose their dignity because they are acting in an inauthentic way to get approval from society to feel a sense of validation and worth. The meaning of their existence is based on the virtues espoused by someone else and not their own values.
"in dealing with a virtue, too, one can lack dignity and fawn" Fawning is agreeing to something that you don't want to do. It is to be seen as not being a threat. Having dignity is having respect (and perhaps love) for yourself. A virtue exists to achieve something greater; it has a purpose. If you perform a virtue rather than thinking about why you're doing that virtue, then you're performative, which negates the purpose of the virtue. Fawning is agreeing to do the virtue even if you don't want to. Having no dignity is doing something that you might disagree with. As a practical example, notice in the presentation that you are both fawning and applying virtues. You're both exaggerating the virtue of being "agreeable" by overly smiling and affirming that the other is not to be considered offensive. By doing this, you may not keep your dignity - by not expressing your needs (I don't like this, and I would like this and want to talk about something else). Or fawning - agreeing to something you don't agree with (This is interesting, even though I don't understand what you are saying).
Most brilliant aphorist of the 20th century.....without a doubt Nicolas Gomez Davila!!!! ........and then Emile Cioran. These two serve you a myriad of the deepest aphorisms, enough for years or half a lifetime!
My heart sings to hear Walter Kaufmann’s name. Always a good conversation with you two, no fawn.
Okay but what does fawn actually mean ? (English is not my mother tongue)
Thank you to this channel. As someone who is a layman philosopher, but also a huge lover and nerd of it, this channel is a godsend. So many niche videos Idk where to start really! Lol Appreciate y'all
Dr. Ellie, you are doing a good job. Do you have any of your own philosophy? About anything e.g. Life, metaphysics etc.
yes, Dr. Anderson has a variety of articles you can check out online :)
Stay true to yourself is more important than just pleasing others
you summer look is blending in the mindful undertaking with the books that gave birth to...
I guess one could say that the virtue of being careful about which words to use can lack dignity and fawn.
As a Catholic I agree with David, virtue at all costs is a problem.
David I love your shirt!!! Where did you get it? ❤
Walter Kaufmann ! His trilogy, 'Discovering the Mind' is such a great read!
Interesting how Nietzche, at least, in this aphorism, prioritizes Homeric dignity, aka honor, over virtue (platonic: wisdom, justice, fortitude, temperance and/or christian: faith, hope, chastity). Also, doesn't this aphorism suggest something like Plato's virtue of temperance? Is it possible to escape the play of platonic virtues? Grr, that Plato guy really got me wondering.
Ah, and I may be nitpicking here, but which form of virtue should we be focusing on? Moral virtue, intellectual virtue, or virtue itself?
Moral virtue, for perfect virtue pressuposes rectitude of the will.
Wow. Really well versed its obvious. David killing it with the synopsis.
While I don’t disagree with the discussion, I think there are other aspects of this aphorism that can be drawn out. If one considers the nature of being human as lacking either inherent goodness or evil, what is the response when confronted by some entity or being, that is inherently good, or virtuous? This can lead to a discussion on the nature of experience and knowledge in a fallen world, and whether experience enables virtue to be acquired. My sense is that it is these aspects of this aphorism that interested Nietzsche more than a show of excess humility, for example.
This discussion made me think of the film "Wicked Little Letters." I saw it a couple of months ago and the dialogue kept bringing me back to specific scenes from this recent 2023 movie. I don't want to ruin the movie but I'd recommend seeing the trailer or film.
The problem/feature of aphorisms is that it's more about interpretation than about an actual statement. They may be useful for someone to signal, while demonstrating their virtues, interpreting aphorisms creatively (what David did), but his suggestion to 'read more Nietzsche' may reveal his true covert intention towards his viewers 👻 We all know what reading too much Nietzsche may lead to ... 🙋👽
Do you think many professional philosophers tend to grow boastful?
Virtue is one of Nietzsche's favorite topics, he is a virtue ethicist. See the recent Cambridge Element Nietsche on Virtue by Mark Alfano. He re-evaulates virtue, of course.
You should do one on Aphorism 19 from Minima Moralia, "Do not knock." On the technification of everyday objects and life. It's the classic Adorno segment where he calls car doors fascist.
stay tuned for an upcoming discussion of one from MM :)
Would Christians even disagree with this aphorism? David (the king not the host) said “and I will become even more undignified than this” when people got mad he was fawning too much over the arc of the covenant. When I was growing up that was the basis of a song they had us sing in Sunday school
Whether we like it or not, we all fawn over something (pets, a football team).
@4:29 Not to veer off-topic, but what's wrong with using the term "boot-licker"...? It definitely does the job at conjuring up a visceral image for a type of activity which deserves contempt.
Future video suggestion: bookshelf tour and ranking
Love it thank you!
The end put me in mind of what Kant had to say about truth-telling, which seems less Aristotelian and one of his more controversial passages, I guess. He seems to have been a real stickler.
The is one is similar to his thing about becoming a monster when you fight against them long enough.
The aphoristic lends itself perfectly to this podcast.
Great analysis. Might Nietzsche, in taking a stab at virtue ethics, be critiquing the tendency in the western philosophical tradition to “totalize?” Nietzsche, remember, is a precursor to moral relativism in later post modernism. His disdain for Plato’s theory of forms is evident in this aphorism.
Thank you very much. Just reading the gay science and sat a long time trying to understand this specific short aphorism😊
two legendary legends
Help! I wanted the German version, in particular to see what had been translated as "fawn". But, 160 in German is a completely different aphorism. So, now what do I do?
I loved the video. Some of the aphorisms that Nietzsche used are difficult to understand
I enjoyed the conversation
Matthew 6:1-21
New International Version
Giving to the Needy
6 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Virtue Is the place of dignity, for Love is its substance and apex; its cause and finality; its rule and its transcendence. Its sufficiency is our happiness, and through sacrifice it is manifested.
Now Humility is an attempt to imitate God, Who, being Perfect and Absolute, praised us with Freedom, because He is Love. And even when we used it to reject Love and developed a macabre curiosity for anything else, He still tries to attract us in our every instantiation.
I needed this video
greaet chat. to met it speaks to idea like "we are gods because we are God.'s" or to respect the imago dei in ourselves and others, that we have to have some self dignity to own our "God-nature", but to not be fully G-d to prevent grandiosity and create room to grow and be open to feedback from higher ups. So its to fully serve the Virtue but own your own virtuosity or at least the sanctity of being a channel for the virtue. Christianity lets people openly nakedly adore Virtue, whereas it seems Buddhism for example pretty quickly deflates celebrating being the virtue condiut. NowI'm babbling. Ya'lls dynamic is great, a bit of an anxious avoidant dance in this one - contrast of vibrant floral sparks and a stable lattice for which it grow.
Madam what is meant by understanding
Seems to me that Nietzsche sees "dignity" as superior to other virtues in importance
Neitches books read like a dark girls facebook wall. Good wall though. Good wall. Brilliant human. So far ahead of his time. He was writing facebook posts for all of his friends in The FutuR : )
I hate aphorisms. I love adagia - they’re like a clip of a movie. You first make the movie and then it becomes popular and some parts stand out. But what if you, as a director, just tried to film one clip? I mean, many advertising directors and producers create that funny or unique commercial - but quantity breeds quality. They need to film many for one to become famous or applauded. Most quotations come that way - they’re part of a famous book, novel, treatise. But you need to write a lot to write something good, in the same way you need to exercise a lot to have a nice body - nice aphorism!
It boggles the mind of this member of the working poor how two doctors and professors of philosophy can miss the meaning of this aphorism.
It's a lot simpler than that. The passage does not need an elaborate exegesis.
Better read Nietzsche in German:
“Mit einer Tugend kann man umgehen wie mit einer Lungenkrankheit und dennoch das Leben ihretwegen loben.”
How is she not starring in the next Woody Allen movie?
That’s the mystery !!
Makes me think of people who virtue signal. They may not fully believe what they are virtue signaling, but more than likely, they are doing so to appease whatever group they are a part of. When one does this, they lose their dignity because they are acting in an inauthentic way to get approval from society to feel a sense of validation and worth. The meaning of their existence is based on the virtues espoused by someone else and not their own values.
🙏
"in dealing with a virtue, too, one can lack dignity and fawn"
Fawning is agreeing to something that you don't want to do. It is to be seen as not being a threat.
Having dignity is having respect (and perhaps love) for yourself.
A virtue exists to achieve something greater; it has a purpose. If you perform a virtue rather than thinking about why you're doing that virtue, then you're performative, which negates the purpose of the virtue. Fawning is agreeing to do the virtue even if you don't want to. Having no dignity is doing something that you might disagree with.
As a practical example, notice in the presentation that you are both fawning and applying virtues. You're both exaggerating the virtue of being "agreeable" by overly smiling and affirming that the other is not to be considered offensive. By doing this, you may not keep your dignity - by not expressing your needs (I don't like this, and I would like this and want to talk about something else). Or fawning - agreeing to something you don't agree with (This is interesting, even though I don't understand what you are saying).
🍀
Cool, but I would have liked more aphorisms to be discussed.
This is the first video in a series discussing aphorisms, so stay tuned!
I don't like this video format. Bring back the old lectures.
Nietzche was a very weak woman hater. See Bertrand Russell for details.
Most brilliant aphorist of the 20th century.....without a doubt Nicolas Gomez Davila!!!!
........and then Emile Cioran.
These two serve you a myriad of the deepest aphorisms, enough for years or half a lifetime!