The way that dual ISO works is generally in what's called the charge to voltage converter in the sensor. That's where the charge from the photocell is accumulated (or integrated) into a capacitor to produce a voltage, and it's that which is read by the ADC (analogue to digital converter) via an analogue amplifier. Generally a dual-ISO sensor will have two capacitors, and when running with the "low base ISO", both capacitors are in circuit. When running in the "high base ISO" mode, only one capacitor is used with, say, only about one-sixteenth of the capacitance of both combined. The result is that, for a given charge, which is directly proportional to the number of photons detected in the photo-diode, the "high base ISO" mode will generate a voltage sixteen times higher (four stops) than in "low base ISO" mode. That means, in the "low base ISO" mode, for a given ISO, there would have to be a sixteen-times higher analogue amplification to be applied compared to the "high ISO mode". Unfortunately analogue amplification comes with a cost, which is added noise. Using a smaller capacitor provides that amplification without the added noise. So, if the "low base ISO" adds noise, why do cameras not always run in the "high base ISO" mode all the time? The answer to that is dynamic range; the "high ISO mode" has much less headroom before it clips by exceeding the range of the ADC and other elements of the circuity. In short, it would clip highlights. As to when the two modes are switched in, then that's going to be down to the fine details and optimisation of firmware in the camera. The exact details of how the "dual base ISO" feature is physically implemented is in the sensor. What base ISO actually means in terms of SLOG adds another complication to the game as, at heart, it's a non-linear encoding of the luminance levels on the channels.
@Paul Lifewood It would not surprise me if the ADCs were also tweaked as well. As this is all fabricated in the sensor there are probably downsides in adding too much complexity. There's an explanation of the basic principles here, which might be of interest. www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/2016-newsview/jan-mar-2016-newsviews-2/dual-gain-becoming-the-norm.html I can't remember who patented the idea first.
@Paul Lifewood Now I recall, it was probably Aptina that first patented the method which was called dual-gain or some such. No doubt each sensor manufacturer has it's own particular take and its own patents but probably have to cross-licence the original concept. www.photonstophotos.net/Aptina/DR-Pix_WhitePaper.pdf
@Gerald Undone, Gerald, a question, What's the best ISO value for extracting maximum allocation of dynamic range above the middle grey, think of shooting with A7S3 in a super sunny daylight, thanx.
Thank you very much for this video. After many years filming with an A7R II I´m finally purchasing an A7S III and I needed that clear information. Thank you again and greetings from Spain.
Nice! When I had test for my review I noticed that “jump” but I had thought that was an error on pre production model, nice to know this “dual iso” function.
A personal thank you Phillip. I'm expecting my A7S3 next month, and your settings will be a great way to start with the new camera. Best wishes. Andrew.
Finally got mine in and so glad you made this video. I came back to remember the ISO range where the switchover happens and then remembered you had the settings set up for us to start with. Much appreciated! That's going to make getting started much less work.
Thanks for the settings, very helpful and contains exactly everything that I ever need. Saved me a lot of time. Also, as Gerald Undone pointed out, you can either count the stops, or, if it's easier to you, just multiply the base ISO by 20 to find out the second ISO where it cleans up.
4 роки тому
Thanks for sharing your Menu settings. Wish you all the best, enjoying every video from you. Keep on that awesome work of yours.
What's the most surprising to me with this camera is how good the standard profile is. It seems to be the cleanest for virtually no loss in DR. A low base ISO is also a huge bonus
Brian Decasa seriously??? Standard has “no loss in DR”? Where is this coming from? Your tests? There’s about 4 stops different between standard and Slog3
Thank you, Phillip. Can't wait to get my A7Siii. Please continue these informative and rather entertaining videos, even though on the shorter timeframe side per your regular standards.
Great video and super useful for us! This will help in selecting an appropriate PP when we film Aurora. Pretty excited to play with RAW for this purpose as well.
Thanks a lot for this test! I only have one question. Every next stop is 2 times the previous ISO and we seem to look for the 5th stop, then why the image clears at 12800 (which is 1,25 times the previous ISO) and not at 20480? Thank you!
Hi this is very informative. Could you please share the resource where we can see the base ISO for each picture profile for different cameras such as A7III , A7R IV and A6600
Very comprehensive demonstration, question however Philip, why did Sony make the cut point for the ISO switch so abrupt or is this technical limitation? Could they not have spread the overlap a little more? Also, if you're shooting video with ISO set to automatic (not desirable of course) and transitioning between dark and bright areas, is the switch in ISO across these cut-off points noticible in video?
@@philipbloom gotcha, so for regular use you'd barely notice the noise reduction if transitioning from a lighter area to a dark place while filming. Thanks for the reply!
@@philipbloom agree and have watched - I am week 2 of using an FX3 and as an oldy I miss the evf as well. I have looked at the builds (cage monitor etc )to make the fx3 look like a cinema camera but think you may as well get the fx6 after that spend ! I’ll stick to the A7s3. Anyways admire your work and funny as I spend most of my time in Richmond and brighton also ! Keep it up 👍
Awesome! Thanks so much! Was going to save up cash to purchase but I might buy with 0% just in case Sony “updates” this great “feature” with a firmware update. Great video as always.
Good demonstration. This 'dual ISO' has always be present on the A7S Mk2 too BTW. The switch point for SLOG2/3 is also @ 12800 as you work your way up through the ISO range, but weirdly at 10000 as you work your way back down through the ISO range. I've always avoided shooting anywhere between 5000-10000 to avoid the worst of the noise. At least the switch point seems to be consistent now. Looking forward to receiving our FX9s little brother.
Thanks for the Video! I have question, because i didn´t understand all of that (maybe because my English isn´t so good): I´m using also the A7SIII with a G-Master Objective (2.8, 24-70) and i´m not very happy because of noisy Video captures, especially in dark rooms. So, is it the best solution to keep the ISO in 12800 ?
Have you gone through the ISO range with the lens condom on in ProRes Raw? I'm curious if the image still cleans up at 12'800 in Raw, because that would indicate whether the a7S iii is just using noise reduction / in camera processing trickery to get the clean image at high ISO's - thanks for the awesome videos Mr. Bloom
Great Job always ! I've an issue with your settings. I put them in my camera but lost SLOG-3. Now after importing footage they are in "color", no more grey. So you add something that backed the color information ? Now FCPX give me a HD (1.1.1) instead of nothing and then I can put a LUT. Any cue ? thanks !
It’s not denoising, it’s a second set of A/D converters, with the whole A/D pipeline has variable “ISO”, which is itself an inaccurate term held over from film cameras.
Not, it's not de-noising (or noise reduction). It switches in a fundamentally different bit of circuitry in the sensor in the charge-to-voltage converted which means less analogue amplification is applied prior to the ADC. That means less noise is added to the signal for low luminance levels. There are probably a few other little tricks in the ADCs too, but in essence it is, genuinely, less noisy. It can't be done for high luminance levels as it will clip highlights.
I hope this isn't a dumb question or answered somewhere else, but in light of the fact that the FX3 has CineEI settings of 800 and 12,800, does this mean that 800 is now the low "base" iso for the a7siii given they have the same sensor? Or is it a software difference between the two cameras? Also, a second question, does the 640/12800 apply to slog3cine? Many thanks, Philip for doing all this useful testing.
Hi Philip, I guess this applies also to the new PP11 Cinetone setting on A7S-III / FX3 ? I'm still torn which one to buy. I'm getting more and more into video, but also still do a lot of photography, where a viewfinder could be beneficial.
I wish Sony would give that firmware update allowing for the disabling of video NR. DaVinci Resolve does NR much better than a camera’s muddy processing…
Great demonstration. I'm curious whether there's any noticeable difference to the image at the bright end-i.e. the highlight reach and quality of roll-off. Presumably they're switching to a higher gain amplifier as early as they can, and this would be limited by the point at which the high gain amplifier causes visible clipping of the brightest pixels. But how close to the sun are they getting?
Out of curiosity i just tested this on my A6500 (with the lens cap on and manual WB, shutter & aperture) and there is a definite change at ISO 6400 using S-Log 2 the noise appears finer and most of the color noise disappears. And in no profile, movie (PP1) and cine profiles the image cleans up at ISO 500 which does match reported dual ISO gain point of ISO 400 but i found ISO 800 to be cleaner and had less color noise.
Thank you for your A7siii custom camera set up Bloomie! I like simple videos like this. Please do one on the use of the right Chapman? Venice lut? with Slog3 Gamut 3 Cine etc
Dear Phil great info, but in atomos ninja v in hdmi proresraw output slog 3 i can’t Select 160 iso it ‘s beginn at 640 iso . SO it ‘s better sharpness to film on a Cf express CARD at 160 iso ? I’m filming Still product in studio. Thanks
@@philipbloom Thanks , so the quality in proresraw is the same at 640 ISO than 160 or less in internal record .... I can easily in studio compense the power of light with the aputure led without adding a ND filer..
Yes it does, the switch point on the MK2 for SLOG2/3 is also @ 12800 as you work your way up through the ISO range, but weirdly at 10000 as you work your way back down through the ISO range.
Thanks for the info Philip! So the trick is not using that 4th stop. Were you able to tell if the stop where it switched over was as clean as the 3rd or even the 2nd? I feel like we just need to cross out certain iso's in each picture profile. Quirky! I remember with the original a7s I purposely shot overexposed because it brought down the blacks and gave me a cleaner image in the end. Very strange.
Raphael & Kristin Rogers I am saying it’s not as visible as you are seeing so don’t be paranoid about it. This demo does shoes you very clearly the noise levels though.
yes, but what happens after the switch over? does it keep the less noise ratio or is it some sweet number only for that ISO? i didn't see any post switch over further ISO incrementations to see how the image looked (in your video) because if that were the case then it has its purpose. but basically means. you need a cheat sheet written for yourself. if normal old style ISO determined setting would've been 800, then, don't even bother just go straight to 1250 or whatever it was (example).
in your video you show the image quality up to point that it gets grainy and then appears to get cleaner due to the sony dual ISO algorithm, but whatappens in the next 1/3 step increment in ISO.? .... does it start getting grainy, or does it hold really clean for a while? @@philipbloom
hey Phillip i know you said in one of your reviews you said there is no apc crop mode.... the latest vid from wex shows there is even showed them using it.. could you do an update on this?
Love the video!!! Serious question- is there a way to save the current video settings so when you switch to manual(photo) and go back to video mode it goes back to those settings? So that I don’t have to switch the settings every time I go from photo to video? I always have to turn off picture profile and switch a bunch of things and it’s really annoying to switch back and forth!!! Please help!!! :)
Great Video as usual Philip, a question, What's the best ISO value for extracting maximum allocation of dynamic range above the middle grey, think of shooting with A7S3 in a super sunny daylight, thank you.
Hey Philip! Amazing videos on the a7siii, especially the movie!! I’ve just received mine, a little late, are your cam settings available for download anywhere please? The link in the description has expired! No worries if not, thanks again for the brilliant videos!
Rudolph Lagarrigue because real dual ISO is a fixed point, it’s physically a secondary gain circuit built into the sensor. For this to be moving it seems to be a shifting de-noising threshold.
Deathbynature not true. Sony FX9 does the same thing. Dual iso in a cinetone is at a different point to slog 3. That camera is officially called dual iso
Philip Bloom waht?! I take that back, I don’t know what I am talking and I am confused. Why aren’t they coming it dual ISO? Can’t you poke your Sony Rep to find out?
Interestingly the standard profile in video where it gets clean (ISO1600) is the same as for RAW photos, so the sensitivity for photos is actually worse than their other cameras (e.g. A7R5, A7IV, etc), this low light advantage is only present in video modes. I wonder what accounts for this...
Very useful sir and glad I sat down for this. Interesting 🧐 find of a feature. I wonder why Sony didn’t market this? Probably to market their higher end cameras 📸 with this feature instead. 🤔
Would this A7siii be a good alternative to the FX9 if say money is not a problem? Would it be more beneficial to spend $15,000 with the FX9 or 3x less with the A7siii? The cost isnt a problem but id love to still get best for value and features.
The way that dual ISO works is generally in what's called the charge to voltage converter in the sensor. That's where the charge from the photocell is accumulated (or integrated) into a capacitor to produce a voltage, and it's that which is read by the ADC (analogue to digital converter) via an analogue amplifier. Generally a dual-ISO sensor will have two capacitors, and when running with the "low base ISO", both capacitors are in circuit. When running in the "high base ISO" mode, only one capacitor is used with, say, only about one-sixteenth of the capacitance of both combined.
The result is that, for a given charge, which is directly proportional to the number of photons detected in the photo-diode, the "high base ISO" mode will generate a voltage sixteen times higher (four stops) than in "low base ISO" mode. That means, in the "low base ISO" mode, for a given ISO, there would have to be a sixteen-times higher analogue amplification to be applied compared to the "high ISO mode". Unfortunately analogue amplification comes with a cost, which is added noise. Using a smaller capacitor provides that amplification without the added noise.
So, if the "low base ISO" adds noise, why do cameras not always run in the "high base ISO" mode all the time? The answer to that is dynamic range; the "high ISO mode" has much less headroom before it clips by exceeding the range of the ADC and other elements of the circuity. In short, it would clip highlights.
As to when the two modes are switched in, then that's going to be down to the fine details and optimisation of firmware in the camera. The exact details of how the "dual base ISO" feature is physically implemented is in the sensor.
What base ISO actually means in terms of SLOG adds another complication to the game as, at heart, it's a non-linear encoding of the luminance levels on the channels.
What Say Ye Sir Gerald Undone?
@Paul Lifewood It would not surprise me if the ADCs were also tweaked as well. As this is all fabricated in the sensor there are probably downsides in adding too much complexity.
There's an explanation of the basic principles here, which might be of interest.
www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/2016-newsview/jan-mar-2016-newsviews-2/dual-gain-becoming-the-norm.html
I can't remember who patented the idea first.
@Paul Lifewood Now I recall, it was probably Aptina that first patented the method which was called dual-gain or some such. No doubt each sensor manufacturer has it's own particular take and its own patents but probably have to cross-licence the original concept.
www.photonstophotos.net/Aptina/DR-Pix_WhitePaper.pdf
Kez I’m assuming he’s been married for at least 15 years.
Your explanation is perfect 👌 and I appreciate it. Glad someone understands the science. (:
Honestly the best duo in camera breakdown and in depth reviews is Gerald and Phil. I mean, if you want to KNOW your camera... its these guys. Period.
Yes
Well demonstrated, Philip! Also, love your shirt! 🤓👌💜
@Gerald Undone, Gerald, a question, What's the best ISO value for extracting maximum allocation of dynamic range above the middle grey, think of shooting with A7S3 in a super sunny daylight, thanx.
@@peek118 I would say about 1250 without introducing much noise.
@@8lec_R Thanks,
well done Phillipe , hey Gerald ;)
do one of, probably both , of you know why Sony have different dual iso on different styles ?
Karma_Codeine I already answered didn’t I? Why would you just shoot at the lowest base iso as in 640?
I learned about ‘stops’ and how they are calculated ... awesome. Thank you for that.
Thank you very much for this video. After many years filming with an A7R II I´m finally purchasing an A7S III and I needed that clear information. Thank you again and greetings from Spain.
Amazing stuff! Weird they don't advertise this. Thanks for the vid Phil!
because it's not dual iso.
Juventin actually it essentially is.
This is the best explanation of the dual ISO ever made.
This is GREAT NEWS. I can't wait for my camera to arrive.
Do you know the expected ship date?
How long have you been a Sony shooter?
@@WarriorsPhoto This will be my first. Were you being snarky a la Sony sucks at releasing?
@@baller2377 Very interesting point there. I am wondering what about my question lead to seeming "snarky"? Thank you for asking BTW.
Nice! When I had test for my review I noticed that “jump” but I had thought that was an error on pre production model, nice to know this “dual iso” function.
Dear Phillip, Thanks for the settings file. A very generous gesture.
A personal thank you Phillip. I'm expecting my A7S3 next month, and your settings will be a great way to start with the new camera. Best wishes. Andrew.
So glad that you can save settings to SD. It’s always been a bit of a nightmare copying them over manually.
Finally got mine in and so glad you made this video. I came back to remember the ISO range where the switchover happens and then remembered you had the settings set up for us to start with. Much appreciated! That's going to make getting started much less work.
Nicely illustrated, thanks for showing this.
you will remain the legendary Philip for all of us , Big Thanks
G'day from Australia Philip. I downloaded the settings and they're great. Thanks for all of the hard work you put into creating these videos.
Philip to Sony: Looks like dual ISO to me!
Sony: It's not dual ISO, it's cleaner noise!
Dual ISO has been one of the best features of some of the recent Panasonic cameras. Good to see other cameras utilizing it now.
mpgxsvcd sure but its not. Don’t forget, who makes the S1H sensor?
Philip Bloom why is it not a good feature?
mpgxsvcd that’s not what I said. I said it’s not “dual iso”. Not officially! :)
mpgxsvcd this has actually been in Sony mirrorless cameras going all the way back to the A7S but it’s just not been talked about :)
So calm, positive karma, so professional! Congrats for all your videos!
Thanks for the info 🙌🏻. Looking forward to receiving mine next week. Haven’t been this pumped for a new camera since 2016
Thanks for the settings, very helpful and contains exactly everything that I ever need. Saved me a lot of time.
Also, as Gerald Undone pointed out, you can either count the stops, or, if it's easier to you, just multiply the base ISO by 20 to find out the second ISO where it cleans up.
Thanks for sharing your Menu settings. Wish you all the best, enjoying every video from you. Keep on that awesome work of yours.
What's the most surprising to me with this camera is how good the standard profile is. It seems to be the cleanest for virtually no loss in DR. A low base ISO is also a huge bonus
Brian Decasa seriously??? Standard has “no loss in DR”? Where is this coming from? Your tests? There’s about 4 stops different between standard and Slog3
The reason it “looks cleaner to me” is the contrast is hiding the noise
This is great ... And the best part of it the sharing of the personal menu setting, huge thanks for that
Thank you, Phillip. Can't wait to get my A7Siii. Please continue these informative and rather entertaining videos, even though on the shorter timeframe side per your regular standards.
Now I’ll have to figure out how to upload settings into the cameras via SD card. Thanks Phillip for all the tips!
It’s in the pdf
@@philipbloom you're the man
This exactly what I was looking for plus the my menu settings 🥺 thanks my man! Subscribed!
What music track is that? It goes great with the video
The L.A. Explorer there’s quite a few tracks isn’t there?
I can’t wait to see your Fx6 review. I think that will be my next camera.
Great video and super useful for us! This will help in selecting an appropriate PP when we film Aurora. Pretty excited to play with RAW for this purpose as well.
Thank you Philip. I will refer back to this video in a couple year's time when I buy my Siii :)
Thanks a lot for this test! I only have one question.
Every next stop is 2 times the previous ISO and we seem to look for the 5th stop, then why the image clears at 12800 (which is 1,25 times the previous ISO) and not at 20480?
Thank you!
Thank you for sharing your camera settings! I am looking forward to getting mine soon!
Hi this is very informative. Could you please share the resource where we can see the base ISO for each picture profile for different cameras such as A7III , A7R IV and A6600
Very comprehensive demonstration, question however Philip, why did Sony make the cut point for the ISO switch so abrupt or is this technical limitation? Could they not have spread the overlap a little more? Also, if you're shooting video with ISO set to automatic (not desirable of course) and transitioning between dark and bright areas, is the switch in ISO across these cut-off points noticible in video?
How do you expect it to change?
As I said in this video this is highly exaggerated do you can see the difference.
@@philipbloom gotcha, so for regular use you'd barely notice the noise reduction if transitioning from a lighter area to a dark place while filming. Thanks for the reply!
It’s amazing how much cleaner it gets. Thanks for this video!
Not fair! 😭😭😭 I still gotta wait 8 more days and every job I book before the 24th I hate that I have to use my a7s ii lol
Relatable! Me when ordering prime lenses. Order now or it can hurt you later
I can't wait to see your review the fx6 and the c70...
Ok maybe I'm dreaming but still worth a shot to mention.
Awesome, thank you for the info! You are an amazing filmmaker.
Great test. I like the standard picture profile best, the blacks seem richer to me and the roll off looks the most cinematic.
Absolutely do not use this as a way of analysing what look best!! This is so artificial in its presentation to make it possible to see!!!
@@philipbloom Apologies! I was trying to be funny whilst eating my Wheatabix this morning.
Ben you should get your coat! 😂
Great work as always - Would you still recommend the A7s3 now in 2022 for run n gun over the fx 3 ?
thanks...my reasons for preferring the a7s III over the FX3 are the same as in my review of the FX3. No firmware can change that...
@@philipbloom agree and have watched - I am week 2 of using an FX3 and as an oldy I miss the evf as well.
I have looked at the builds (cage monitor etc )to make the fx3 look like a cinema camera but think you may as well get the fx6 after that spend ! I’ll stick to the A7s3.
Anyways admire your work and funny as I spend most of my time in Richmond and brighton also !
Keep it up 👍
Awesome! Thanks so much! Was going to save up cash to purchase but I might buy with 0% just in case Sony “updates” this great “feature” with a firmware update. Great video as always.
Nice demo Phill,Thank you.I think Sony did a good job on this camera for its price point.
Good demonstration. This 'dual ISO' has always be present on the A7S Mk2 too BTW. The switch point for SLOG2/3 is also @ 12800 as you work your way up through the ISO range, but weirdly at 10000 as you work your way back down through the ISO range. I've always avoided shooting anywhere between 5000-10000 to avoid the worst of the noise. At least the switch point seems to be consistent now. Looking forward to receiving our FX9s little brother.
Great and thanks for the settings as well. I can’t wait to see you covering the Gyroscopic Stabilization feature and how you like it 👍
Thanks for all the information and thank you for sharing your settings. That was very nice of you.
Native ISO for the a7r iii is 800.
If the ISO is lowered to compensate for a bright scene, will the video get noisey when shooting in s Log 2?
Thanks for the Video! I have question, because i didn´t understand all of that (maybe because my English isn´t so good):
I´m using also the A7SIII with a G-Master Objective (2.8, 24-70) and i´m not very happy because of noisy Video captures, especially in dark rooms.
So, is it the best solution to keep the ISO in 12800 ?
Excellent information! I can't wait for mine to arrive!
Thanks Phillip super keen to get my unit!
Looking forward to seeing some more on the proress raw!
Bravo 👏 Philip!!! Very useful little video
Thanks for this. How does the dynamic range change? Which profile has the most dynamic range under what ISO?
Thank you Phillip for the settings!
Do you think investing in CF Express Type A now is a good idea? Or just go with V90?
Wagener Videos v90 is fine. Wait for CFe A to drop in price
Have you gone through the ISO range with the lens condom on in ProRes Raw? I'm curious if the image still cleans up at 12'800 in Raw, because that would indicate whether the a7S iii is just using noise reduction / in camera processing trickery to get the clean image at high ISO's - thanks for the awesome videos Mr. Bloom
Yup. Check out my Sony A7S III review! It’s not noise reduction. :)
People like this are why I have hope in the world
Thanks! Is 12800 iso the point where it gets cleaner as well on the A7Sii in Slog2?
Which autofocus lenses do you recommend for the a7s3/fx9?
Great Job always ! I've an issue with your settings. I put them in my camera but lost SLOG-3. Now after importing footage they are in "color", no more grey. So you add something that backed the color information ? Now FCPX give me a HD (1.1.1) instead of nothing and then I can put a LUT. Any cue ? thanks !
Thank you for the settings files Philip. It's greatly appreciated!
did they load? i couldn't get them to load. i went under 'reset/save settings' then LOAD > File name: "CAMSET01" and didn't work. any idea why? thanks
Thanks for the settings file! I’ll put it to good use... one day.
started understanding ISO a bit, thanks Philip!
So it is a de-noising threshold. Can we quantify how much detail is lost? And how does it compare to the A7III de-noising.
It’s not denoising, it’s a second set of A/D converters, with the whole A/D pipeline has variable “ISO”, which is itself an inaccurate term held over from film cameras.
Not, it's not de-noising (or noise reduction). It switches in a fundamentally different bit of circuitry in the sensor in the charge-to-voltage converted which means less analogue amplification is applied prior to the ADC. That means less noise is added to the signal for low luminance levels.
There are probably a few other little tricks in the ADCs too, but in essence it is, genuinely, less noisy. It can't be done for high luminance levels as it will clip highlights.
I hope this isn't a dumb question or answered somewhere else, but in light of the fact that the FX3 has CineEI settings of 800 and 12,800, does this mean that 800 is now the low "base" iso for the a7siii given they have the same sensor? Or is it a software difference between the two cameras?
Also, a second question, does the 640/12800 apply to slog3cine? Many thanks, Philip for doing all this useful testing.
I think the low on then is slightly different. Can’t remember. The low/ high base of those figures is ONLY for slog3
Hi Philip,
I guess this applies also to the new PP11 Cinetone setting on A7S-III / FX3 ?
I'm still torn which one to buy. I'm getting more and more into video, but also still do a lot of photography, where a viewfinder could be beneficial.
A viewfinder is of enormous benefit for video too!
@@philipbloom so you would pick the A7S-III over the FX3?
@@joergkampers_photography you should watch my review.
I wish Sony would give that firmware update allowing for the disabling of video NR. DaVinci Resolve does NR much better than a camera’s muddy processing…
Cool Video. Thanks.
What happens in Full HD?
Great demonstration. I'm curious whether there's any noticeable difference to the image at the bright end-i.e. the highlight reach and quality of roll-off. Presumably they're switching to a higher gain amplifier as early as they can, and this would be limited by the point at which the high gain amplifier causes visible clipping of the brightest pixels. But how close to the sun are they getting?
Out of curiosity i just tested this on my A6500 (with the lens cap on and manual WB, shutter & aperture) and there is a definite change at ISO 6400 using S-Log 2 the noise appears finer and most of the color noise disappears. And in no profile, movie (PP1) and cine profiles the image cleans up at ISO 500 which does match reported dual ISO gain point of ISO 400 but i found ISO 800 to be cleaner and had less color noise.
I made a cheat sheet for this (both because I have an A7Siii on preorder and to help) and I'm tweeting it to you now.
can you share homebasemg@gmail.com I was going to also..but if you already did it!
@@HomebaseFILMS It's on my Twitter profile @LeonFilms and Instagram @LeonUnity
Thanks Philip!best explanation!
steady shot cropping a bit someone was saying?
Thank you for your A7siii custom camera set up Bloomie! I like simple videos like this. Please do one on the use of the right Chapman? Venice lut? with Slog3 Gamut 3 Cine etc
Dear Phil great info, but in atomos ninja v in hdmi proresraw output slog 3 i can’t Select 160 iso it ‘s beginn at 640 iso . SO it ‘s better sharpness to film on a Cf express CARD at 160 iso ? I’m filming Still product in studio. Thanks
Don’t shoot below the base iso or dynamic range will suffer. If you are going to the trouble of using ProRes raw why through that away? Use ND
@@philipbloom Thanks , so the quality in proresraw is the same at 640 ISO than 160 or less in internal record .... I can easily in studio compense the power of light with the aputure led without adding a ND filer..
Thank you, very helpful. Appreciate you making your settings available.
This video was very useful, thanks Philip. Nice example
@ Phillips Bloom
Brilliant Phillips and thank you.
Does the A7S 2 have a similar dual ISO like feature that we could have missed?
Yes it does, the switch point on the MK2 for SLOG2/3 is also @ 12800 as you work your way up through the ISO range, but weirdly at 10000 as you work your way back down through the ISO range.
Hello Philip. I've downloaded the .zip files but how do I import them to the camera? On the pdf
Hi, can you let me know dual iso in photo mode. Is there dual iso in photo mode as well. thanks
Thanks for the info Philip! So the trick is not using that 4th stop. Were you able to tell if the stop where it switched over was as clean as the 3rd or even the 2nd? I feel like we just need to cross out certain iso's in each picture profile. Quirky! I remember with the original a7s I purposely shot overexposed because it brought down the blacks and gave me a cleaner image in the end. Very strange.
Sort of. Its totally not visible at all in the non slog modes.
@@philipbloom The noise isn't visible? Not following. My questions was at what point do you stop using the lower isos and switch to the 5th stop.
Raphael & Kristin Rogers I am saying it’s not as visible as you are seeing so don’t be paranoid about it. This demo does shoes you very clearly the noise levels though.
@@philipbloom Oh right, makes sense! Thank you sir.
am i getting this recomended because the s3 is waiting on my bh shopping cart for 3 days?
yes, but what happens after the switch over? does it keep the less noise ratio or is it some sweet number only for that ISO? i didn't see any post switch over further ISO incrementations to see how the image looked (in your video) because if that were the case then it has its purpose. but basically means. you need a cheat sheet written for yourself.
if normal old style ISO determined setting would've been 800, then, don't even bother just go straight to 1250 or whatever it was (example).
Sorry but I don’t understand your comment.
in your video you show the image quality up to point that it gets grainy and then appears to get cleaner due to the sony dual ISO algorithm, but whatappens in the next 1/3 step increment in ISO.? .... does it start getting grainy, or does it hold really clean for a while? @@philipbloom
@@LadyFairChildVideo it gets progressively noisier like the low base. Do you have the camera? If so, you can see for yourself.
hey Phillip i know you said in one of your reviews you said there is no apc crop mode.... the latest vid from wex shows there is even showed them using it.. could you do an update on this?
its in HD only. Not 4K.
Sony FX9 image looks amazing! Soft but detailed. Sounds weird, soft but detailed :D
Ah! That’s because I had a filter on to make me look slightly less rough!
So glad that you investigated! I wonder how come it was lowered to 12,800 tho that's pretty interesting.
Love the video!!! Serious question- is there a way to save the current video settings so when you switch to manual(photo) and go back to video mode it goes back to those settings? So that I don’t have to switch the settings every time I go from photo to video? I always have to turn off picture profile and switch a bunch of things and it’s really annoying to switch back and forth!!! Please help!!! :)
Go to set up (bottom menu) then go to operation customise and different set for still/ mv. That does what you want
Great Video as usual Philip, a question, What's the best ISO value for extracting maximum allocation of dynamic range above the middle grey, think of shooting with A7S3 in a super sunny daylight, thank you.
Karma_Codeine lowest base iso
Why the noise pattern is more green on right side and purple on left side?
Hey Philip! Amazing videos on the a7siii, especially the movie!!
I’ve just received mine, a little late, are your cam settings available for download anywhere please? The link in the description has expired!
No worries if not, thanks again for the brilliant videos!
Yup. Latest ones are at gopb.co/settings
@@philipbloom awesome! Thanks again for the brilliant advice and content (and cat shots!)
Philip, what picture profile would you recommend for lowlight situations? How about color space? How are you exposing your slog 3 from this camera?
Thank you philip for sharing us all those informations very quickly. Why sony doesn't call that dual iso is a mystery.
Rudolph Lagarrigue because real dual ISO is a fixed point, it’s physically a secondary gain circuit built into the sensor.
For this to be moving it seems to be a shifting de-noising threshold.
Deathbynature not true. Sony FX9 does the same thing. Dual iso in a cinetone is at a different point to slog 3. That camera is officially called dual iso
Philip Bloom waht?! I take that back, I don’t know what I am talking and I am confused.
Why aren’t they coming it dual ISO? Can’t you poke your Sony Rep to find out?
Interestingly the standard profile in video where it gets clean (ISO1600) is the same as for RAW photos, so the sensitivity for photos is actually worse than their other cameras (e.g. A7R5, A7IV, etc), this low light advantage is only present in video modes. I wonder what accounts for this...
Why is it worse? What is the high ISO point for those other cameras?
Im confused because I can record at ISOs lower than 640 when recording in slog3, but you said the base was 640?
Mo Khayat I said in the video if it has a line underneath it then that’s the expanded ISO. Don’t use it. You lose dynamic range.
@@philipbloom Wow, I didn't know that. Thank you.
Learned a lot.. And realised all the things I have done wrong..... Let's just say my videos and images are going to be cleaner from now on. 😊
I bought Sony A7 sii , after watching your video... Still I love that Camera...
Hi Philip.What is your opinion on the ISO160 provided by Sony for s-log3 in a7siii? Is it exploitable? Can we use it and when?
Very useful sir and glad I sat down for this. Interesting 🧐 find of a feature. I wonder why Sony didn’t market this? Probably to market their higher end cameras 📸 with this feature instead. 🤔
No conspiracies here!
Philip Bloom Hey Phillip, I believe you. I am wondering about Sony’s marketing.
Looking for exposure and ISO help when Not shooting in LOG.
Thanks so much for sharing your settings. Look forward to trying them out when my unit arrives.
Would this A7siii be a good alternative to the FX9 if say money is not a problem? Would it be more beneficial to spend $15,000 with the FX9 or 3x less with the A7siii? The cost isnt a problem but id love to still get best for value and features.
Only you can decide. What each camera does and doesn't do is easy for you to compare, then see what is best for you.
Same story with the Lumix S1 cameras. 640 /4000 "dual" gain.