Haviv Rettig Gur is my favourite person to listen to regarding all things Israel and Jewish these days. He is exceptional, knowledgeable, balanced, nuanced and genuine.
I wonder why you would think is exceptional, when he is simply cherry picking from history and literally re-defining events and terms so they are in line with the Israeli and Jewish supremacy But I guess that is Hasbara for you
@@user0m170 by Haviv, yes. Talking about observed behaviors in the arab-muslim world, and explaining them citing the sources from which that mindset comes: islamic scripture and arab-muslim history. The way to think and beliefs we were taught in arab-muslim world, growing up muslim; talked about while being mindful of biases, and without embellishement. Yes I appreciate Haviv doing that
Awwww man! I have such deep respect for you Haviv. Your are intelligent, erudite, passionate. I wish every University student in the WORLD could hear you speak 🔥
On the 7th, it is crucial to understand that there were no direct attacks on civilians, only collateral damage. Out of the 1148 total names on haaret dataset, 473 military and 675 were civilians. Ratio of civilians to military personnel killed on the 7th was 1 . 4 : 1 - lower than any of the iTf "mowing" operations, which has a ratio of 7 : 1 According to UN OCHA data from 2008 to 2022; The collateral damage on the 7th was significantly lower than any of the ITf "mowing" operations, which had a ratio of 7:1 with 1,023 military personnel out of 6,541 total. On the 7th, with 473 military (418 were iTf military personnel, 55 belonged to the police) out of 1148 total, the ratio of civilians to military personnel was a mere 1.4:1 When including all casualties, not just deaths, the collateral damage ratio of the "mowing" operations is a staggering 162:1 From the 161,233 accumulated civilian casualties over only 14 years of "mowing" operations. A 162 :1 ratio means that for every 162 civillians, 1 military personnel is a casualty. The 7th had a ratio of 1.4:1, more than a hundred times lower. The 473 are - 55 soldiers, 13 privates, 59 corporals, 200 sergeants (45 of whom were sergeant majors), 48 commanders, 32 lieutenants, 5 lieutenant colonels, 6 colonels, 37 officers, 10 inspectors, 6 intendents, and 2 Lance Corp. This was a military defeat, and they are taking it out on the rest. The reported ages of the victims are as follows: 0-4: 2 civilians 5-12: 8 civilians 13-17: 14 civilians 18-25: 132 civilians 26-40: 119 civilians 41-60: 55 civilians 61+: 40 civilians Active duty military personnel: 18-25: 258 active duty military personnel 26-40: 60 active duty military personnel 41-60: 17 active duty military personnel 61+: 1 active duty military personnel haaretz datasheet titled title: xsraxl's Dead: The Names of Those Killed in Hxmxs Attacks, Mxssxcres and the xsrxel-Hxmxs Wxr There is a more detailed report of of oct 7th titled "I scrapped the information about 1096 of the 1460 killed on 7th of October Attack. Children Less than 1%" -Yocheved Lifshitz account - 'they treated us well' -Yasmin Porat account - 'i.T.f kxilled my husband' Civilians were taken to have swaps for the civilians rotting in prisons without charge on the other side. An excess of ten thousands, all before the seventh UN Human Rights Office (UN OCHA) PA Civilians 2008-2023: 2008 - 2,325 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,440. 2012 - 3,992 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 255. 2014 - 17,533 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,492. 2018 - 31,259 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 300. 2019 - 15,491 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 138. 2020 - 2,581 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 30. 2021 - 19,183 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 349. 2022 - 10,345 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 191. 2023 up to September - 8,508 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 227. civilian deaths on the other side - 2008: 3 , 2012: 6 , 2014: 73 , 2018: 9 2019: 10 , 2020: 0 , 2021: 9 , 2022: 26 Total; 2008 up to September 2023 - 161,233 PA Civilian Casualties, 1,023 military personnel. Wounded includes: amputees from the deliberate targeting of knees by snipers, white phosphorous third degree body burns, etc The "Costs of War" study by brown in 2021 has these figures for the past 20 years of engagement of US policy: indirect deaths 4.5-4.7 million, direct 905-940,000 ; in other words 6 Million Deaths and 38 million displaced. This is relevant because of the Oded Yinon Plan. They are following scripture, the word עוֹלֵל, ʿôlēl which means 'Babe, infant, little one, a suckling' occurs 21 King James Bible Verses Of these verses: “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” -Psalm 137:9 “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”-1 Samuel 15:3 “Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.”-Jeremiah 6:11 “Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”-Hosea 13:16 The other verses are not much different. Infact it is always in association with violence. Indeed these verses are the reason why in the Crusades the sense of pious rejoicing at massacre does not appear to be the product of later theologizing; it is also found, in the account of the eye-witness Raymond of Aguilers: “in the Temple and porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies.” In fact, Raymond continues, “This day, I say, will be famous in all future ages, for it turned our labours and sorrows into joy and exultation; this day, I say, marks the justification of all Christianity, the humiliation of paganism, and the renewal of our faith.” This is the polar opposite in the Quran in Surah Al-Tanwir, literally "The Englightenining" Surah, Aya 8-9, we have the death of a newborn is mentioned amongst the penultimate signs of the end of times, emphasizing the gravity of such an action. That child, now resurrected, is asked for what wrong doing was she murdered. This is to emphasize that she had done nothing wrong, for she had done nothing wrong and this is the day of retribution where those who omitted the evil are to be punished. This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190, which exhorts to fight unbelievers and not be "Aggressors", in the commentary of what it means to be aggressors, this was stated Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah): "includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit." This is also the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated that Allah's Messenger said: "Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal, commit treachery, mutilate, or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship." It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, "The Prophet forbade killing women and children." بابتداء القتال أو بقتال من نهيتم عن قتاله من النساء والشيوخ والصبيان والذين بينكم وبينهم عهد أو بالمثلة أو بالمفاجأة من غير دعوة "To kill those whom you were forbidden to from women, elderly, children and those whom betwixt you is a treaty or custom or by surprise or without cause" -Tafsir Al-Zamakshari of the meaning of Aggressors in the Aya More hadith from Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah: حَدَّثَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ شَيْخٍ، مِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَوْلَى لِبَنِي عَبْدِ الْأَشْهَلِ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَ إِذَا بَعَثَ جُيُوشَهُ قَالَ: «§لَا تَقْتُلُوا أَصْحَابَ الصَّوَامِعِ» "Do not kill the dwellers of monasteries" حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ فُضَيْلٍ، عَنْ جُوَيْبِرٍ، عَنِ الضَّحَّاكِ قَالَ: كَانَ «§يُنْهَى عَنْ قَتْلِ الْمَرْأَةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ» سَعْدٍ قَالَ: «§نَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَنْ قَتْلِ النِّسَاءِ وَالذُّرِّيَّةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ الَّذِي لَا حَرَاكَ بِهِ» "The prophet forbids the killing of women, children, and the elderly" This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Anfal Ayah 61 in which even oath breaking deniers/unbelievers are allowed to sue for peace states if the unbelievers they ask for peace, give it to them. Stephen Langton, the writer of the Magna Carta (12th century, contemporary with the crusades for a reason) studied in the university of Paris which archives show had plenty of Arabic treatises in its procession, there can be no question about it being inspired by the "Sharia". both the renessiance and the european enlightenment were directly preceded by massive translation movements form Arabic (see the Republic of Letters by Alexander Bevilacqua, The House of Wisdom: How the Arabs Transformed Western Civilization By: Jonathan Lyons. The modifiable testament testament commands indiscriminate killing, genocide, plunder, mutilation, enslavement, or torture of enemies, including women, on the other hand.Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190 limits war to those who fight against Muslims, prohibits transgression, and implies respect for human dignity and life Indeed it is what precedes the famous "sword verse", always cited out of context. God did bring down the Qur’an, Mohamed is his Messenger.
I wish every Uni student in the world could hear the famous scholar Prof. Nadera of Hebrew University speak, but the Israelis arrested her and are persecuting her for her academic work, so nobody can hear her.
"If you don't understand why the other side isn't stupid, you haven't done your homework." This is a great quote, and a lesson that a lot of people ought to learn.
@@CarsInDimension If marriage consultants would follow your premise they would constantly fail. If you want to solve a conflict, you don't refer to "rationality", but needs and wishes.
As a foreigner who has lived and volunteered in the Palestinian city of Nablus, and also travelled to many other parts of the West Bank and Israel to visit Jewish, Muslim, Christian, and nonreligious friends, I am inspired by the idea offered at the end of this lecture about shifting perspectives on the conflict from a hateful zero-sum game to a tragic conflict with a possible solution. Recognizing valid points, grievances, and aspirations on both sides, with various forms of justice and injustice, and a willingness to compromise, and the recognition of mutual humanity and indeed numerous cultural, linguistic, religious, and historical overlap, then open, compassionate, and well-informed dialogue could actually lead to peace. It gives me a glimmer of hope when there is so little right now. Thanks for this knowledgeable, incisive, thought-provoking, balanced, and entertaining lecture.
I struggle with how the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict could be re-evaluated as a search for more justice in the other’s paradigm. Dr. King noticed that White America conceptually believed in equality for all citizens but practically did not implement that, creating an argument that he could use to say, “Do you really believe in the equality you say is the basis of the US governmental system?” The fundamental purpose of Israel is to create Jewish self-government and the fundamental purpose of Palestine is to expel the invaders. The great justice of Israel is the success of Jews willing to create a homeland and the great justice of Palestine is restoring Arab Muslim governance and expulsion of foreign elements. These are irreconcilable visions.
The truth is there has always been a strong will compromise within Israel and the design is psyche. There is no Will for compromise amongst the Palestinian Arab population or leadership with the exception of a few individuals who have no voice or influence in that society. Be honest about that.
Excellent lecture. Having said that, the British defense of El-Alamein wasn't primarily intended to protect the Jews of Palestine but to protect the land route to India, where the Nazis had many sympathizers among the independentists (including Gandhi). The protection of Palestine's Jews was a side effect of this mission.
they definitly didnt do it for us. its a byproduct , a happy byproduct where otherwise the story of israel would have not existing even if the nazi still ended up losing ww2.
@@jillfryer6699 Gandhi: "Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs.... Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home." Mahatma Gandhi on Zionism and the Holocaust by Dusty Sklar, JewishCurrents, March 19, 2016
I was allways under the impression that all Gandhi wanted was independence from G Brittain thats all and achieve a non violent way of living with not eating meat of any kind and using a fibre for weaving which was and still is an Indian natural fibre which ordenary poor people of India to make their own clothes and also by doing so undermine brittish weaving industries which were flooding the markets in india and becoming increasingly Inexcessible for the poor and Gandhi also realised by doing or achieving that goal would weaken englands hold on India and thereby easier to finnally get the brttish or push the British out of India and undermining the Brittish elites and their control over India and he did that and it cost him his life So i wouldnt talk about Gandhi so flippantly if i were you especially the constant fasting that he undertook and being dragged into prison god knows how many times and not to forget that march to collect salt with many supporters and so much more that that Saint of India did only to be betrayed by an mentally disturbed man unfortunately to be shot and died but the whole of india mourned and revered him up to today maybe not as much but there are still temples where anybody can go to pray and honour Gandhi and still has a following of loyalty for him and none of us should forget Gandhi for the sacrifices he made for his country and his achievements no matter what your belief systems are its the human spirit that prevails ( and that’s something that the jewish people have embodied. And the arabs can’t stomach or stand no matter the history or right or wrong of things The strength that the jews possess is not only military but simply not giving up like what happened during the holocaust not just October 7 th thats why the Muslim arabs wont win period !!!!! Thankyou for your provocative reply 💟☸️☮️🕉️🌹⭐️🍀🌈🌈☔️☔️🇦🇺🇦🇺🦘🦘🌻🌸🥰🙏🙏🙏💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙
I’m a non-Jew progressive American and this is the lecture I’ve needed but never knew it. Not just because of your stories, but how it makes me look at my own. Thank you. ❤
Recommend the article “alternative to genocide” by Chris Cutrone very interesting Marxist take that is quite critical of the protest movements. It’s quite interesting to learn from.
Among Arabs and Palestinians there is a pervasive myth that almost all Israelis are dual citizens anyways, that they actually belong somewhere else and CAN go somewhere else. A Jordanian roommate in my dorm was complaining about Israel during a discussion and I asked her about her solution to the conflict. She plainly said that all Israeli Jews had to leave Palestine. She justified it by telling that almost all Israelis supposedly had dual citizenship anyways, so that it wouldn't actually be a big problem for them. I think it encapsulates exactly what Rettig Gur enumerated and explained well.
"What is the current Bibi policy for Palestinians?" It Seems to be trying to give them tons of money, and a far better economy than any of the sorrounding Arab states in the belief that this will make them less interested in genocide....somehow. Its a really stupid policy, and a total failure to understand the fundamnetal desires of the Palestinians, as shown in decades of surveys - kill all the Jews, taje all the land. Its really dumb to believe that you can essentially buy off the Palestinians.
@@AnnettSchwarz-sheepos_negros They don't actually leave. Emigration rates are remarkably stable considering how battered the country has become. Just 50.000 have left the country and 30.000 have made aliyah and come to Israel, so the number was remarkably stable.
*Abstract* This lecture explores the Palestinian narrative of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, highlighting three recurring themes: betrayal by the Arab and Islamic world, the role of imperial patrons in supporting Israel, and the perception of Zionism as colonialism. The speaker argues that these themes, while not entirely accurate, are deeply ingrained in Palestinian history and understanding, shaping their strategies and hindering peace efforts. He concludes by proposing a "coercive nonviolent" approach inspired by Martin Luther King Jr., which acknowledges the validity of both sides' narratives and seeks a resolution based on mutual understanding and justice. *Palestinian Interpretation of History* * *0:41**:* The lecture aims to explain the Palestinian perspective on the conflict, emphasizing that their interpretation is not extremist, radical, or wrong, but based on their historical experiences. * *1:22**:* Three recurring themes in the Palestinian narrative are introduced: * Betrayal by the Arab and Islamic world * The role of imperial patrons in supporting Israel * The perception of Zionism as colonialism. *Theme 1: Betrayal by the Arab and Islamic World* * *25:40**:* Palestinians feel a sense of abandonment by the Arab and Islamic world, perceiving their weakness and inaction as a betrayal. * *26:18**:* This sentiment stems from the Ottoman Empire's inability to prevent Jewish immigration and the subsequent failures of Arab nations to effectively support Palestinians in conflicts with Israel. * *28:02**:* The speaker cites quotes from Ottoman leaders expressing concerns about the rising tide of Zionism and the potential threat it posed to the empire. *Theme 2: Imperial Patrons* * *1:07:16**:* Palestinians view Israel as consistently backed by powerful imperial patrons, initially the Russian Empire due to the influx of Russian Jewish immigrants. * *1:07:42**:* This perception extends to the British Empire during the Mandate period, then to Germany in the 1920s with the arrival of German-speaking Jews, and eventually to the United States from the 1970s onwards. * *1:11:37**:* The speaker discusses instances where Arab leaders attributed Israel's strength and survival to external support, such as Egypt's declaration of war in 1948 framed as a fight against "communist atheism." *Theme 3: Zionism as Colonialism* * *1:24:25**:* Palestinians perceive Zionism as a form of colonialism, drawing parallels with European imperial projects in other parts of the world. * *1:25:05**:* The speaker cites a footnote from an Israeli geographer who argues that Zionism resembles colonialism in various aspects but with key differences, such as the lack of a "colonial mother country" and the historical connection of Jews to the land. * *1:26:36**:* This perception of Zionism as colonialism fuels Palestinian resistance movements and shapes their strategies, including the BDS movement, which aims to isolate Israel on the international stage. *Towards a Resolution* * *1:31:59**:* The speaker critiques the "decolonization" rhetoric used by some activists, arguing that it misunderstands the nature of the conflict and reinforces the Palestinian misdiagnosis of Israel. * *1:32:07**:* He proposes a solution inspired by Martin Luther King Jr.'s concept of "coercive nonviolence," which involves acknowledging the legitimacy of both sides' narratives and seeking a resolution based on mutual understanding and justice. * *1:40:13**:* This approach requires a shift from a zero-sum mentality to recognizing the "tragic" nature of the conflict, where both sides have valid grievances and aspirations. * *1:42:29**:* The speaker suggests that by understanding the Jewish experience and the historical context of Zionism, Palestinians can move beyond their current narrative and engage in more constructive dialogue towards a peaceful resolution. i used gemini 1.5 pro to summarize the transcript Token count 25,277 / 1,048,576 =
2 point 1- Islam mentio. More than once but he never said any quote of what Islam itself said about jewish because he can't fight it . Or he do not want the student to look for it but mention leaders but why the leader or what is there teaching . 2- he put the poison in the drink and student and watcher drunk it without feeling it which is to prove without say it that jewis are the victim and only only only victim from England Germany arab . Every one solow it . Victim . Pluse he destruct the main issue which is occupation by who support who finance who armed despite he said immigrated,rescued as refuge one time and have legality to home hand and put the problem on the victim
@@rashidjuma8076you perfectly show what the lecturer said about how the Palestinians saw the conflict as zero sum... Which is actually not correct. The Jews returns to their ancestor land. This is fact, you don't agree. There is no stolen land. The land once belong to Ottomans, before that belong to other empires, after Ottoman, it was mandated to the British. It has never belong to the Palestinians. It is the fact. You don't agree. Palestinians has lived there. So they have right as well. This is fact. You only agree to this one. As long as you do not recognize that both the Jews and Arabs have rights to the land, then this is a zero sum conflict. The only solution is one of them completely cease to exist in the land. You know what? It will not be Israeli. Why? The Israelite will not leave the land before Damascus, Mecca, Cairo, Baghdad, Beirut and many other cities were also cease to exist. Why? They have nuclear weapon. Is it what Arab leaders one? If Israel have leader like Putin, they will finish the Palestinians in one week. This is the reality. You are free to reject the reality, but it will not change one. The reality is the reality. The Aborigines has effectively zero chance to remove Australia, so do the American Indians and the Palestinians. That what happened if you want to view this as zero sum conflict. If you see this as tragic conflict, and the Palestinians also do the same, then we can expect sometime in the future the solution.
@SamBourgeois-mr4hq Jews were Ottomans too. There was no "Mohawk State", as there was no "Eskimo State". As far as I remember, there were also no "Celtic States" either. By your logic, not only the Americans, but also the English, the Dutch and the Germans should be expelled to Ukraine, because the owner of the land were Celtic people. If the Irish could enforce that, will the Russians and Ukrainians agree to give shelters to 300 millions Germanic people? Or 10 millions Turkemistani should accept 80 millions Turkish? That's why you can not be weak. You are so absurd.
Zionism is perceived as a racist settler colonising ideology cause it is a racist settler colonising ideology. Jabotinsky and Herzl explicitly state the plan is create a Jewish only state in Palestine and to expel the non Jewish Palestinians.
The problem isn't genetic differences or similarities. It's a religious rift. Plus islam forbids giving away lands they conquered. @SamBourgeois-mr4hq
Thank you for this analysis and explanation. I have been suffering so much pain from these events and I didn’t understand the depth of these emotions. It is complex. You have helped me so much! Blessings to you
This is a superior lecture. Everyone interested in this part of the world should listen to what Haviv has to say. His way of explaining the history of this region is the clearest I've heard. I'd be interested in knowing how much support he gets from other journalists re this POV. I'd also like to know where Haviv and Benny Morris agree and disagree.
Great breakdown of history and understanding. I did a ton of research the last 4 months, and this still managed to bring a few very new perspectives I hadn't taken into account or heard anyone mention yet! Thank you. We all need this.
He spoke in lengthy about colonialism, you chose not to here because it doesn't suit your agenda. The whole lecture is about colonialism and its relationship to the establishment of the state of Israel @user-yz2pp9uu8f
@@smarinay I feel like he played a trick. A very convincing one at that. His thesis is that the Arabs are wrong (with good reason he concedes) to look at zionism as a colonial project. He frames zionism and Israels existence and founding a refugee problem. Folks fleeing persecution. He mentions that it can't be colonialism because the colonial backers seemed to change so much. British, Soviet, American. He tries to say oh since the Israelis aren't all from one country it can't be colonialism they don't serve a master. But if he was being truly honest with himself he would have tackled the elephant in the room which very few zionist want to do and that is to justify refugees colonizing (taking by force others land and making it their own country I D C what you want to call it) Taking land of other people and turning them into refugees. Having said all that I still found it an interesting lecture. I just dont have that large of a blindspot to ignore what really happened on the ground to the average person. They got robbed. That's why they dont like you. It's that simple. All of these academics are jumping through hoops trying to find some way to justify and injustice.
This was awesome. I wish we had video of the previous discussions you have with the group earlier in the trip. Thank you for this. Shalom Shalom U'mevorach
On the 7th, it is crucial to understand that there were no direct attacks on civilians, only collateral damage. Out of the 1148 total names on haaret dataset, 473 military and 675 were civilians. Ratio of civilians to military personnel killed on the 7th was 1 . 4 : 1 - lower than any of the iTf "mowing" operations, which has a ratio of 7 : 1 According to UN OCHA data from 2008 to 2022; The collateral damage on the 7th was significantly lower than any of the ITf "mowing" operations, which had a ratio of 7:1 with 1,023 military personnel out of 6,541 total. On the 7th, with 473 military (418 were iTf military personnel, 55 belonged to the police) out of 1148 total, the ratio of civilians to military personnel was a mere 1.4:1 When including all casualties, not just deaths, the collateral damage ratio of the "mowing" operations is a staggering 162:1 From the 161,233 accumulated civilian casualties over only 14 years of "mowing" operations. A 162 :1 ratio means that for every 162 civillians, 1 military personnel is a casualty. The 7th had a ratio of 1.4:1, more than a hundred times lower. The 473 are - 55 soldiers, 13 privates, 59 corporals, 200 sergeants (45 of whom were sergeant majors), 48 commanders, 32 lieutenants, 5 lieutenant colonels, 6 colonels, 37 officers, 10 inspectors, 6 intendents, and 2 Lance Corp. This was a military defeat, and they are taking it out on the rest. The reported ages of the victims are as follows: 0-4: 2 civilians 5-12: 8 civilians 13-17: 14 civilians 18-25: 132 civilians 26-40: 119 civilians 41-60: 55 civilians 61+: 40 civilians Active duty military personnel: 18-25: 258 active duty military personnel 26-40: 60 active duty military personnel 41-60: 17 active duty military personnel 61+: 1 active duty military personnel haaretz datasheet titled title: xsraxl's Dead: The Names of Those Killed in Hxmxs Attacks, Mxssxcres and the xsrxel-Hxmxs Wxr There is a more detailed report of of oct 7th titled "I scrapped the information about 1096 of the 1460 killed on 7th of October Attack. Children Less than 1%" -Yocheved Lifshitz account - 'they treated us well' -Yasmin Porat account - 'i.T.f kxilled my husband' Civilians were taken to have swaps for the civilians rotting in prisons without charge on the other side. An excess of ten thousands, all before the seventh UN Human Rights Office (UN OCHA) PA Civilians 2008-2023: 2008 - 2,325 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,440. 2012 - 3,992 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 255. 2014 - 17,533 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,492. 2018 - 31,259 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 300. 2019 - 15,491 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 138. 2020 - 2,581 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 30. 2021 - 19,183 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 349. 2022 - 10,345 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 191. 2023 up to September - 8,508 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 227. civilian deaths on the other side - 2008: 3 , 2012: 6 , 2014: 73 , 2018: 9 2019: 10 , 2020: 0 , 2021: 9 , 2022: 26 Total; 2008 up to September 2023 - 161,233 PA Civilian Casualties, 1,023 military personnel. Wounded includes: amputees from the deliberate targeting of knees by snipers, white phosphorous third degree body burns, etc The "Costs of War" study by brown in 2021 has these figures for the past 20 years of engagement of US policy: indirect deaths 4.5-4.7 million, direct 905-940,000 ; in other words 6 Million Deaths and 38 million displaced. This is relevant because of the Oded Yinon Plan. They are following scripture, the word עוֹלֵל, ʿôlēl which means 'Babe, infant, little one, a suckling' occurs 21 King James Bible Verses Of these verses: “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” -Psalm 137:9 “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”-1 Samuel 15:3 “Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.”-Jeremiah 6:11 “Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”-Hosea 13:16 The other verses are not much different. Infact it is always in association with violence. Indeed these verses are the reason why in the Crusades the sense of pious rejoicing at massacre does not appear to be the product of later theologizing; it is also found, in the account of the eye-witness Raymond of Aguilers: “in the Temple and porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies.” In fact, Raymond continues, “This day, I say, will be famous in all future ages, for it turned our labours and sorrows into joy and exultation; this day, I say, marks the justification of all Christianity, the humiliation of paganism, and the renewal of our faith.” This is the polar opposite in the Quran in Surah Al-Tanwir, literally "The Englightenining" Surah, Aya 8-9, we have the death of a newborn is mentioned amongst the penultimate signs of the end of times, emphasizing the gravity of such an action. That child, now resurrected, is asked for what wrong doing was she murdered. This is to emphasize that she had done nothing wrong, for she had done nothing wrong and this is the day of retribution where those who omitted the evil are to be punished. This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190, which exhorts to fight unbelievers and not be "Aggressors", in the commentary of what it means to be aggressors, this was stated Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah): "includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit." This is also the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated that Allah's Messenger said: "Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal, commit treachery, mutilate, or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship." It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, "The Prophet forbade killing women and children." بابتداء القتال أو بقتال من نهيتم عن قتاله من النساء والشيوخ والصبيان والذين بينكم وبينهم عهد أو بالمثلة أو بالمفاجأة من غير دعوة "To kill those whom you were forbidden to from women, elderly, children and those whom betwixt you is a treaty or custom or by surprise or without cause" -Tafsir Al-Zamakshari of the meaning of Aggressors in the Aya More hadith from Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah: حَدَّثَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ شَيْخٍ، مِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَوْلَى لِبَنِي عَبْدِ الْأَشْهَلِ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَ إِذَا بَعَثَ جُيُوشَهُ قَالَ: «§لَا تَقْتُلُوا أَصْحَابَ الصَّوَامِعِ» "Do not kill the dwellers of monasteries" حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ فُضَيْلٍ، عَنْ جُوَيْبِرٍ، عَنِ الضَّحَّاكِ قَالَ: كَانَ «§يُنْهَى عَنْ قَتْلِ الْمَرْأَةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ» سَعْدٍ قَالَ: «§نَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَنْ قَتْلِ النِّسَاءِ وَالذُّرِّيَّةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ الَّذِي لَا حَرَاكَ بِهِ» "The prophet forbids the killing of women, children, and the elderly" This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Anfal Ayah 61 in which even oath breaking deniers/unbelievers are allowed to sue for peace states if the unbelievers they ask for peace, give it to them. Stephen Langton, the writer of the Magna Carta (12th century, contemporary with the crusades for a reason) studied in the university of Paris which archives show had plenty of Arabic treatises in its procession, there can be no question about it being inspired by the "Sharia". both the renessiance and the european enlightenment were directly preceded by massive translation movements form Arabic (see the Republic of Letters by Alexander Bevilacqua, The House of Wisdom: How the Arabs Transformed Western Civilization By: Jonathan Lyons. The modifiable testament testament commands indiscriminate killing, genocide, plunder, mutilation, enslavement, or torture of enemies, including women, on the other hand.Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190 limits war to those who fight against Muslims, prohibits transgression, and implies respect for human dignity and life Indeed it is what precedes the famous "sword verse", always cited out of context. God did bring down the Qur’an, Mohamed is his Messenger.
Thanks for posting the Verse, so others could see how deceitful that translation is, the verse says: "And the disbelievers made a plan ˹against Jesus˺, but Allah also planned-and Allah is the best of planners." Indeed we can see the handiwork of the al-shaytan (actual original form of the word from which satan is a mumble of, his actual name is Iblis and his handiwork is seen in that attempt using a mistranslation.
The Aramaic word for God is Alaha. It's the word Isa PBUH (Jesus as his name is often misspelled due to the lack of the ayin sound in Greek, which was rendered to Iesous, coupling the nearest sound to ayin, same letter found in 'Iraq', which sounds entirely different in Arabic form 'Iran' in Arabic, with the -ous Greek suffix that Greeks typically add to their names 'HerodotOS', 'PlotinUS', 'AchelOUS' and later mumbled into a J). Sounds familiar? Written without the confusing vowels, it is A-L-H ܐ ܠܗܐ (alap-lamed-he) as found in Targum or in Tanakh (Daniel, Ezra), Syriac Aramaic (Peshitta), adducted from the Arabic original of which Aramaic is a dialect continuum of A-L-L-H (Aleph-Lam-Lam-Ha). The Yeshua rendition is KNOWN to had been taken from greek. Western Syriac also use "Isho". Western Aramaic (separate from Syriac which is a dialect of Eastern Aramaic) use "Yeshu". Western Syriac has been separate from Western Aramaic for about 1000 years. And sounds don't even match up. Syriac is a Christian liturgical language yet the four letters of the name of Jesus «ܝܫܘܥ» [ = Judeo-Babylonian Aramaic: «ישוע» ] sounds totally different in West vs East Syriac, viz. vocalized akin to Christian Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic «ܝܶܫܽܘܥ» (Yēšūʿ) in West Syriac, but pronounced more akin to Muslim Arabic Quran character name Isa in East Syriac «ܝܑܼܫܘܿܥ» (ʾĪšōʿ). The reason for this confusion is their dropping of phonemes as aforementioned. Only someone that has no idea what the letters are or how they sound would have a name ending in a pharyngeal fricative like the ayin, if it were to be used in a name it would have had to be in the beginning, thus the Arabic rendition is the correct one. In addition, The word God in hebrew is eloah, is a cognate of the Arabic I-L-H, pronounced ilah not eloah. Hebrew dropped the glottal stop and mumbled it into eloh, aramic mumbled a little less and it became elah. Infact it is written A-L-H in Arabic, it is pronounced i in Arabic cause it is an Alef with hamza below (إ أ ) They are two different forms of Alef. And it mean "a god", it is the non definitive form of A-L-L-H, in which the Alef is without a glottal stop/hamza,(ا) This kind of nuance is lost in the dialect continua. As a matter of fact, all of the knowledge needed for deciphering ancient texts and their complexity was derived from the Qur'an. It was by analyzing the syntactic structure of the Qur'an that the Arabic root system was developed. This system was first attested to in Kitab Al-Ayin, the first intralanguage dictionary of its kind, which preceded the Oxford English dictionary by 800 years. It was through this development that the concept of Arabic roots was established and later co-opted into the term 'semitic root,' allowing the decipherment of ancient scripts. In essence, they quite literally copied and pasted the entirety of the Arabic root. Hebrew had been dead, as well as all the other dialects of Arabic, until being 'revived' in a Frankensteinian fashion in the 18th and 19th centuries. The entire region spoke basically the same language, with mumbled dialect continuums spread about, and Arabic is the oldest form from which all these dialects branched off. As time passed, the language gradually became more degenerate, and then the Qur'an appeared with the oldest possible form of the language thousands of years later. This is why the Arabs of that time were challenged to produce 10 similar verses, and they couldn't. People think it's a miracle because they couldn't do it, but I think the miracle is the language itself. They had never spoken Arabic, nor has any other language before or since had this mathematical precision. And when I say mathematical, I quite literally mean mathematical. "protosemetic" Alphabet (29), Arabic Alphabet (28), Latin transliteration, hebrew (22) 𐩠 𐩡 𐩢 𐩣 𐩤 𐩥 𐩦 𐩧 𐩨 𐩩 𐩪 𐩫 𐩬 𐩭 𐩮 𐩰 𐩱 𐩲 𐩳 𐩴 𐩵 𐩶 𐩷 𐩸 𐩹 𐩺 𐩻 𐩼 ا ب ت ث ج ح خ د ذ ر ز س ش ص ض ط ظ ع غ ف ق ك ل م ن ه و ي A b t ṯ j h kh d ḏ r z s sh ṣ ḍ ṭ ẓ ʿ ġ f q k l m n h w y א ב ג ד ה ו ז ח ט י כ ל מ נ ס ע פ צ ק ר ש ת Merged phonemes in hebrew and aramaic: ح, خ (h, kh) merged into only kh consonant remain س, ش (s, sh) merged into only Shin consonant remaining ط, ظ (ṭ/teth, ẓ) merged into only ṭ/teth consonant remaining ص, ض (ṣ, ḍ/Tsad ) merged into only ḍ/Tsad consonant remaining ع, غ (3'ayn, Ghayn) merged into a reducted ayin consonant remaining ت, ث (t/taw, th) merged into only t/taw consonant remaining The reason why the protoS alphabet here is 28 and not 29, is because the supposed extra letter is simply a س written in a different position, but it was shoehorned to obfuscated. In Arabic letter shapes are different depending on whether they are in the beginning , middle or end of a word. "Semitic" is just mumbled Arabic, really. Imagine English with a third of its letters removed and simplified grammar. That's Aramaic, Hebrew, etc. For example, combine T and D into just T; there's no need to have 2 letters. The same goes for i, e, y - they should all be just y from now on, etc., etc. Arabic is the only corollary to proto-Semitic. In fact, the whole classification of Semitic languages is nonsensical for anyone with a somewhat functioning brain. Hebrew, Aramaic, and the rest of these made-up dialect continua only have 22 letters out of the 29 proto-Semitic letters. Arabic has all 29. The difference between Arabic and the other creoles and Pidgin is the same as the difference between Latin and pig Latin or Italian. "Phoenician" is an Arabic dialect continuum, and not only that, it is pidgin. It is simplified to the point of stupidity. Anyone with a basic knowledge of Arabic would see this clearly. What happened was that Arabic handicapped "scholars" saw the equivalent of Scottish Twitter spelling, with added mumbling due to phonemic mergers (22 letters, not 29), and mistakenly thought they were seeing a different language." Now how is it that the Qur'an came thousands of years later in an alphabet that had never been recorded before, and in the highest form the language had ever taken? The creator is neither bound by time nor space, therefore the names are uttered as they truly were, in a language that is lexically, syntactically, phonemically, and semantically older than the oldest recorded writing. In fact, that writing appears to have been a simplified version of it. Not only that, but it would be the equivalent of the greatest works of any particular language all appearing in one book, in a perfect script and in the highest form the language could ever take. It is so high in fact, that it had yet to be surpassed despite the fact that over the last millennium the collection of Arabic manuscripts when compared on word-per-word basis in Western Museums alone, when they are compared with the collected Greek and Latin manuscripts combined, the latter does not constitute 1 percent of the former as per German professor Frank Griffel, in addition all in a script that had never been recorded before. Thus, the enlightenment of mankind from barbarism and savagery began, and the age of reason and rationality was born from its study. God did bring down the Qur'an and Mohamed is his messenger
Very interesting and revealing talk on a glossed over period of Israeli history. The rotating incidence of Imperialism in the laborious development of Israel is deeper than I imagined. The fall of the Ottaman Empire and the failure of leadership in the Palistne District in it's vacuum gave the Jewish people opportunity after opportunity to succeed. This lecture really brings home the reason why all the victimhood mentality prevalent today exists. Excellent historical review!
It gave way to Jewish supremacy and succession so that what, mass murder and human rights abuses of Palestinians could occur? So Jews went through Hell during the holocaust, and think giving Hell to Palestinians and Arabs is fair game now ? And you wonder why there is hatered of Israel. It isn't antisemitism, it's because of the heartless arrogance and thirst for blood you hold
becaus Hamas, even though formally born in the 80's, is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhhod which was founded in the 30s by Al Amin. Its ideology models itself over nazism and islamic superiority
The wounded pride, the admitted weakness, the humiliation of loosing to the “poor refugees”, sadly, is not just a Palestinian story. It’s the source of the world’s oldest hatred. Amazing lecture. Thank you.
...don't forget the betrayal. That the only people who opened their doors to those refugees had to lose everything to them. Those poor refugees who were chucked out Europe for a reason, refused entry into the US for a reason and yet you are the only ones in the world who embraced them. It is indeed your fault that you did not foresee that they would one day turn against you and call you 'human animals." It is indeed, the source of the world’s oldest hatred.
I think that self congratulatory tone is premature. Israeli and Jewish breast beating, and self glorification will not stand the test of time. It never does no matter what your ethnicity, or country of origin or clan or nation.
Only they didn’t lose to poor refugees. They lost to well armed, well funded refugees, and they themselves were largely untrained peasants who were outnumbered 2:1. Hardly an underdog story
There is another point too not to discount. Beith Al Magdis is the first Qibla of the Islamic faith, its a holy site for the Muslims. Besides to be Muslim, you have to believe in all OT and NT Prophets. So Ibrahim, Jacob, Isac, Ishmael, David, Solomon, Jesus PBU all of them are their prophets as well and the land is holy to them.
brilliant lecture!! applause by a christian french. (What i found also amusing is that i was saying to myself that Mr Haviv Rettig is teaching the way a Rabbi do in yeshivah school, by constantly interrogating his audience, and then he revealed at the end of his lecture he is father is a rabbi! )
“Our right to defend ourselves from extermination does not give us the right to oppress others. Occupation leads to foreign rule. Foreign rule leads to resistance. Resistance leads to repression. Repression leads to terror and counter-terror. The victims of terror are mostly innocent people. Holding on to the occupied territories will turn us into a nation of murderers and murder victims. We must leave the occupied territories immediately.” -Shimon Tzabarr
@@marksutton5817 No. They control everything in and out of Gaza, prevent Gaza from having a seaport or an Airport. They regularly kill Gazans (prior to 10/7). Also they occupy the West Bank and apparently are holding auctions for West Bank land around the world, selling property that literally doesn't belong to them.
@@marksutton5817 No. If you mean Gaza, they maintained total control of food, water, power, and the borders of Gaza, choosing who can come in and out, choosing if the Gazans can eat, choosing if the gazans can vote. Etc. They removed settlers from Gaza, but they did not remove the Israeli presence. Not at all. They turned it into an open air prison.
@@philipripper1522 What were the reasons for embargos? Did Hamas come to power peacefully? Did the government of Gaza behave as a terrorist entity? Does it continue to place itself before the survival of its own people? In short: were the measures that Israel took in Gaza irrational?
@@philipripper1522 The arabs have ZERO RIGHTS to enter Israel. Egypt could let them into Egypt, but the arabs also have ZERO RIGHTS to enter Egypt. If they feel confined to their claimed strip of land, it's because they don't want to make peace and friends with their neighbors. The arabs have a lot of demands that they have ZERO RIGHTS to demand and then think they have a right to go to war with Israel because their demands aren't met (but not Egypt, no in Egypt they just build tunnels to undermine the border with Egypt since the Sinai is a sparsely populated desert). There was NO BLOCKADE of gaza in 2005, no blockade of gaza in 2006, the blockade on gaza was a direct result of the population of gaza ELECTING A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION TO BE THEIR GOVERNMENT. Every restriction that was added to arabs attempting to pass into Israel was also a direct result of ARAB AGGRESSIONS AND TERRORISM sanctioned, orchestrated, and executed by their elected government. The arabs have a long history of denying reality because then they do not have to admit the shame that it is their OWN ACTIONS that have put them where they are. Arabs were the FIRST to draw blood by attacking the jews with their suicide campaigns in 1919. Only after so many suicide campaigns and revolts from the arabs against the jews did the jews begin to form "militias" to protect themselves from the arabs. The arabs do not want to face the reality that the jews are NOT COLONIZERS, they are a diaspora come home! The arabs do not want to allow a jewish state to exist because they have been ingrained with arab supremacy for centuries. They feel they have the right to self-determination, but damn any minority that think they have the right to self-determination. When the arabs get their own state, they ethnically cleanse their state of minorities - but you don't want to face that reality. The arabs do not want to face the reality that the FIRST CAUSE OF THE NAKBA was ARAB LEADERS LYING TO ARAB VILLAGERS so they would flee BEFORE the jews arrived. Arab leaders PROMISED VICTORY over the jews and they failed. The arabs do not want to face that THE LAST CAUSE OF THE NAKBA was the ARAB LEADERS LYING TO ARAB VILLAGERS to not trust the jews who had originally allowed them to return to the villages they fled, the Arab leaders promised once again they would destroy the jews and only then could the arabs return to their villages. 150,000 arabs stayed in their homes because they didn't believe the arab leaders, they are Israeli citizens and they disprove every call of "apartheid" because the stateless arabs can not face the reality they there is NO APARTHEID, they are subject to STRICT BORDER CONTROL because of every aggression and terrorism they have caused, they refuse Israeli citizenship at every chance - without citizenship they have ZERO RIGHTS to enter Israel except what Israel deigns to allow. For a century the arabs have chosen violence and terrorism, and for a century they have failed and their own actions have made their own situation worse. But the arabs can't choose peace, because to choose peace is to face a century of shame they have refused to admit even exists (much like how they refuse to accept that LGBTQ+ people even exist).
I truly did enjoy the debate. It was thought provoking and allowed my to readdress many questions I had already answered in my mind. But it does leave one point which I cannot accept. Coming as beggars to your own land is not the way we should see this origin. As a people who as refugees came because they had nowhere else to go, in a sense. I am not Jewish and find this mindset disturbing but understandable for a people that have essentially been almost 2000 years without their homeland. As a Portuguese citizen, I was introduced early on to the historical concept of the legitimacy of reconquering our land with out apology after it was taken away from us by invasion. The Iberian Peninsula was once called Al-Andalus after it was invaded and conquered by Islam in the 8th century. It took literally 800 years to get it back. Hundreds of thousands of lives were lost in doing so. Generations went by and in the meantime, the invaders stopped being invaders and said it was their land too. To achieve this restoration, sometimes hard choices need to be made but it is the only way to get to the other side.
I think the Jews should accept it was the Islamic / Ottoman empire that helped the Jewry to flourish both in Spain , Bagdhad and the Middle East. It was the only place safe for them. We there were rivarly and fighting from time to time, but mostly the Islamic Nations were where they actually could 'practise their religion.
@Amrishpoori The real history tells us otherwise. Yes they did flourish there but culling was a way of life. There are countless genocides done by the muslims to the jews all over the land they controlled. Every time the jews were thought to be too uppity, one would occur to put them in their place. No different from Europe.
That is an interesting piece of history. I had no idea! Thank you. And that is a valid point. Our whole existence as humans is one of disturbance and wars, but I feel the Jewish story of eviction and resettlement is one of a kind.
@@ac1646 You even fight with your family members from time to time... Sometimes with people you run into in the streets. Things happen. My point is whatever happened, before 1900 its just himan nature...After 1900 its different . Its got nothing rrlated to as the accusation goes, Muslims hate Jews, just because they are Jews and that they want ki## all of them. And its got nothing to do, about thr things the Quran mentioned of the rebellious nature of the eaely Israelites who "became" Jews. Quran is full of Stories of punishments for many previous narions. And you know what the Quran calls the people who played around with their words to mislead people? People who rejected Gods favour on them became arrogant? I will give you a hint... It wasnt the name Jews, they were called Unbelievers, people of fire... and many other names.
Excellant ! As a seventy year old Brit who has read the History of the area since seeing Lawrence of Arabia in 1964 and heard so much 'mince' talked over the last few years, (one Arab kid even alluded to everything being hunky dory before 1948,had'nt heard of The Ottomans or The Brits. The Ottomans were only there for a few hundred years) I had almost given up. A Real Historian !
@@philiprufus4427 Yep. I read a lot of the pro- Hamas types saying things like that online. It was all so wonderful for everyone before Israel happened... I guess I could say - "Yes, it was wonderful, that's one reason many Arabs were selling land to the Jews." 😅
I love this lecture! And I love the fact that he has a powerful narrative and interactive style, provocative dialogue with the students, and he is so passionate about the subject, and he uses minimal visuals🙌🙌🙌
No. It is too loud and the rhetorical questions he asks loudly is more fear-inducing than engaging or thought provoking. Give the answer. Let the children/students learn from your deductions and make their own separately during test time.
Please consider adding chapters/timecodes for ease of reference. Just add the following text anywhere in the description and the timestamp for each section of the talk: Timecodes 00:00 - Intro 4:35 - 1881 The beginning of Jewish 20th century etc...
@drfelixcjchivandire9550 even of it's free. It is great recommendation that would benefit all watchers and listeners. It neitherr difficult nor new. Let's not be afraid of giving suggestions .
I can't hear a word of the questions that the students are asking. Please re-post with subtitles for the students' questions. That will improve it greatly.
I agree with you that early Jews came to Palestine as refugees. However, that fact doesn't diminish the ultimate goal of "state building." Imagine Syrian refugees in Canada participating in a project to establish a Syrian state within Canada, or even attempting to take over the entire country. In such a scenario, the refugee narrative might not carry much weight in people's minds. What you've mentioned doesn't alter the reality that Palestinians were displaced from their lands, whether through coercion or other means, just as Jews residing in Arab-speaking countries faced similar challenges. I personally believe that nationalistic endeavors should be understood within their specific historical contexts, particularly in Western Europe before and during early modernity. These efforts have often failed to establish cohesive and functional nations elsewhere in the world. I think I would strongly support Israel if it transitioned towards a multicultural, non-nationalistic identity (in other words, not solely a Jewish state or engineering the demographics to achieve so). Now, regarding colonization and imperialism, it's irrelevant who the patron is if the outcome is a society that restricts immigration based on ethnicity and excludes certain ethnic groups from military service. That's not a favorable scenario. Having said that, Jews have every right to live in Israel/Palestine, as long as the country upholds the human rights of its indigenous population, whether that population is Jewish or Arab.
Syrians in Canada not analogous to Jews in Israel…. more like French Canadians going back to France and reclaiming their lost lands, if Canada persecutes them. something like that.
Unfortunately, democracy is not how the middle east operates, so a democratic arab-jewish-whatever country would soon degrade into chaos. Europe gets a taste of that now.
I don't see why it's a problem to have a Jewish State that gives equal rights to all its citizens. What's the problem with nation states, you'll find plenty of them in the liberal democracies of Western Europe?
@@pashokresn I raise you the Persian Nation State and the Turkish Nation State. And even if you don't think it's ideal for the region, you do not need to be against the idea of a Jewish State there in principle, which is what I was reacting to.
Seeing all of these hate comments I am fully convinced the vast majority either did not listen to the lecture or clearly did not take the time to fully grasp and understand it
"Mostly civilians" - Incorrect On the 7th, it is crucial to understand that there were no direct attacks on civilians, only collateral damage. Out of the 1148 total names on haaret dataset, 473 military and 675 were civilians. Ratio of civilians to military personnel killed on the 7th was 1 . 4 : 1 - lower than any of the iTf "mowing" operations, which has a ratio of 7 : 1 According to UN OCHA data from 2008 to 2022; The collateral damage on the 7th was significantly lower than any of the ITf "mowing" operations, which had a ratio of 7:1 with 1,023 military personnel out of 6,541 total. On the 7th, with 473 military (418 were iTf military personnel, 55 belonged to the police) out of 1148 total, the ratio of civilians to military personnel was a mere 1.4:1 When including all casualties, not just deaths, the collateral damage ratio of the "mowing" operations is a staggering 162:1 From the 161,233 accumulated civilian casualties over only 14 years of "mowing" operations. A 162 :1 ratio means that for every 162 civillians, 1 military personnel is a casualty. The 7th had a ratio of 1.4:1, more than a hundred times lower. The 473 are - 55 soldiers, 13 privates, 59 corporals, 200 sergeants (45 of whom were sergeant majors), 48 commanders, 32 lieutenants, 5 lieutenant colonels, 6 colonels, 37 officers, 10 inspectors, 6 intendents, and 2 Lance Corp. This was a military defeat, and they are taking it out on the rest. The reported ages of the victims are as follows: 0-4: 2 civilians 5-12: 8 civilians 13-17: 14 civilians 18-25: 132 civilians 26-40: 119 civilians 41-60: 55 civilians 61+: 40 civilians Active duty military personnel: 18-25: 258 active duty military personnel 26-40: 60 active duty military personnel 41-60: 17 active duty military personnel 61+: 1 active duty military personnel They are following scripture, the word עוֹלֵל, ʿôlēl which means 'Babe, infant, little one, a suckling' occurs 21 King James Bible Verses Of these verses: “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” -Psalm 137:9 “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”-1 Samuel 15:3 “Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.” -Jeremiah 6:11 “Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.” -Hosea 13:16 The other verses are not much different. Infact it is always in association with violence. Indeed these verses are the reason why in the Crusades the sense of pious rejoicing at massacre does not appear to be the product of later theologizing; it is also found, in the account of the eye-witness Raymond of Aguilers: “in the Temple and porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies.” In fact, Raymond continues, “This day, I say, will be famous in all future ages, for it turned our labours and sorrows into joy and exultation; this day, I say, marks the justification of all Christianity, the humiliation of paganism, and the renewal of our faith.” Another account by a chronicler and eyewitness-priest, Albert of Aachen, describes the killing of fleeing women, and depicts crusaders as:: “seizing [infants who were still suckling] by the soles of their feet from their mothers’ laps or their cradles…and dashing them against the walls or lintels of the doors and breaking their necks […] they were sparing absolutely no gentile of any age or kind.”The incoherence inherent in a stranger to Abraham calling the children of Abraham gentiles notwithstanding, this account evokes the very same Psalm 137:9 imprecation against Babylon, in Latin, “beatus qui tenebit et adlidet parvulos tuos ad petram.” This is the polar opposite in the Quran in Surah Al-Tanwir, literally "The Englightenining" Surah, Aya 8-9, we have the death of a newborn is mentioned amongst the penultimate signs of the end of times, emphasizing the gravity of such an action. That child, now resurrected, is asked for what wrong doing was she murdered. This is to emphasize that she had done nothing wrong, for she had done nothing wrong and this is the day of retribution where those who omitted the evil are to be punished. This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190, which exhorts to fight unbelievers and not be "Aggressors", in the commentary of what it means to be aggressors, this was stated Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah): "includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit." This is also the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated that Allah's Messenger said: "Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal, commit treachery, mutilate, or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship." It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, "The Prophet forbade killing women and children." بابتداء القتال أو بقتال من نهيتم عن قتاله من النساء والشيوخ والصبيان والذين بينكم وبينهم عهد أو بالمثلة أو بالمفاجأة من غير دعوة "To kill those whom you were forbidden to from women, elderly, children and those whom betwixt you is a treaty or custom or by surprise or without cause" -Tafsir Al-Zamakshari of the meaning of Aggressors in the Aya More hadith from Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah: حَدَّثَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ شَيْخٍ، مِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَوْلَى لِبَنِي عَبْدِ الْأَشْهَلِ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَ إِذَا بَعَثَ جُيُوشَهُ قَالَ: «§لَا تَقْتُلُوا أَصْحَابَ الصَّوَامِعِ» "Do not kill the dwellers of monasteries" حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ فُضَيْلٍ، عَنْ جُوَيْبِرٍ، عَنِ الضَّحَّاكِ قَالَ: كَانَ «§يُنْهَى عَنْ قَتْلِ الْمَرْأَةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ» سَعْدٍ قَالَ: «§نَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَنْ قَتْلِ النِّسَاءِ وَالذُّرِّيَّةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ الَّذِي لَا حَرَاكَ بِهِ» "The prophet forbids the killing of women, children, and the elderly" This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Anfal Ayah 61 in which even oath breaking deniers/unbelievers are allowed to sue for peace states if the unbelievers they ask for peace, give it to them. The modifiable testament testament commands indiscriminate killing, genocide, plunder, mutilation, enslavement, or torture of enemies, including women, on the other hand.Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190 limits war to those who fight against Muslims, prohibits transgression, and implies respect for human dignity and life Indeed it is what precedes the famous "sword verse", always cited out of context. God did bring down the Qur’an, Mohamed is his Messenger.
I fully get this, and thats why I push this pov: Israel is the Frankenstein creation of brit, usa, 3rd reich and upperclass secular politically extremist german jews who colluded to get 60K jews installed in Arab-dominated Palestine where brit mercenaries taught those jews how to expel and terrorize Arabs with a tactic infamously documented as Rise and Kill First. Here's what Israel's founding father said of Israel's core mission to push Palestinians out: “The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war.” David Ben-Gurion, founder of Israel Amer Police get trained with IDF -How Israel Trains U.S. Police ua-cam.com/video/eOj_6-x6oNg/v-deo.html -How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control. Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests. www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control -usa police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks -US and Israeli Police Share Violent and Repressive Tactics The exchange programs have been devastating for both communities of color in the US and Palestinians. truthout.org/articles/us-and-israeli-police-are-sharing-violent-and-repressive-tactics Israeli Growing Opposition to Their Genocide -Documentary on 1sraelis disillusioned by Zionist Abuses. Israelism kinema.com/films/israelism-jvor8l -Majority of Israelis mistrust Gaza resettlement plans thecradle.co/articles-id/24524 Waves of Senior Israel Army Officers Resign www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240304-israel-sees-wave-of-senior-israeli-army-officers-resign/ --Israeli Hostage Reveals Hamas Guards Protected Captive Iraelis from Bombs with Their Bodies www.palestinechronicle.com/our-guards-in-gaza-protected-us-from-bombing-with-their-bodies-freed-israeli-captive -Over 50 1sraeli S0ldiers Come Forward to Expose their Truths ua-cam.com/video/tirugvJc_ag/v-deo.html -Israeli General Admits to How Occupation is Destroying Israel ua-cam.com/video/Jo4nBPigZx4/v-deo.html -How Israeli Soldiers are Dehumanized to Commit Terror ua-cam.com/video/_YCQV_iUGRE/v-deo.html - Israeli Amits Objective is to Exterminate all Palestinians ua-cam.com/video/yMY4ZaoflNc/v-deo.html -Amer Israelis have rights but Amer Palis and other nationalities have none ua-cam.com/users/shorts8p_MYB9l_LE -Israeli Teens Choose Jail and Death Threats Over Military Service ua-cam.com/users/shortseVnNtCUxoPs - Israeli Perspective Of Netanyahu’s Support of Hamas That’s Blown Up In Our Faces. www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces -David Ben-Gurion admits zionism 1) is secular and 2) was opposed by religious jews: ua-cam.com/video/XkzAuU2NG-Q/v-deo.html and www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-04-24/ty-article-opinion/.premium/secular-zionist-david-ben-gurion-the-messianic-jew/00000187-afa8-d3b7-abcf-bfecf1a80000 -Rabbi Exposes how Zionism is anti Jewish ua-cam.com/users/shortsuOvP3J3QBtU -Israeli Explains Israel’s Three Legal Levels of Discrimination facebook.com/reel/883947676410782 -Israeli Vets Describe the Horrific Crimes they Committed ua-cam.com/video/XjTxDYtNhno/v-deo.html -Israeli Women Soldiers Give Shocking Testimonies About Their Army Experiences ua-cam.com/video/jI6rTimkfJE/v-deo.html Former Israeli Soldier Exposes IDF War Crimes ua-cam.com/video/xRyBaPkdJ_c/v-deo.html - This Is How AWFUL Israeli Settlers Really Are ua-cam.com/video/nx1o2MTEwWg/v-deo.html - Traumatized IDF Soldier audio facebook.com/reel/6810986008992544?mibextid=LwY44L ++++
@@mznxbcv12345I do believe it is a proven fact that women and children were raped by Hamas on October 7th. That doesn’t sound like a military operation. Along with that, Israel, like South Korea, has mandatory military service for natives, meaning every Jew born in Israel will have a military rank, even if not in service. All you have done is organize civilians killed by their military rank and age.
Does anyone know if there is some sort of Palestinian equivalent to this and the other Haviv lecture? A Palestinian stating their take on the Israeli-Jewish story. This lecture has been very impactful and important for me and it would be great to see more from different points of view.
Yes. There are various interviews of the Palestinian American intellectual Rashid Khalidi, who certainly is opposed to liberal Zionist Israelis like Mr. Rettig Gur, but who says many things in common. He wrote a landmark book called "The Hundred Years War on Palestine" that Mr. Rettig Gur quotes from in this lecture.
I absolutely love this lecture, thank you so much for sharing this. I wish all schools could show this lecture as it's so important and incredibly well presented.
(clipped from Naomi Klein's book). Hitler claimed it was now Germany’s turn to engage in cleansings and mass relocations on its own frontier. “There is only one task: To set about the Germanization of the land by bringing in Germans and to regard the indigenous inhabitants as Indians,” Hitler said in 1941.
Thank you. I thoroughly enjoyed this lecture and the one on the Israelis. They are both very informative and fascinating even for a non-Jew, who was impacted by the holocaust from reading Anne Frank as a child, later visiting her home in Amsterdam, and further enriched by Schindler’s List. Israel has the right to exist and every right to defend her existence.
Great talk seeing various perspectives. I wish the Palestinians could do that too. He says at about 46 minutes to 47 minutes Palestinians are certainly not Jews. However, he should be clear that up until 1948, Jews who lived in this land were known internationally and by the British as Palestinian Jews. This has a significance regarding the weakness of the name used to define a people. If the definition of the connected name is weak regarding the entity of Arabs who are at odds with Jews then the argument defining this separate Arab entity is weak along with the argument that these Arabs are separate people from Syrians and Jordanians and some of those in Lebanon or Egypt. Therefore this is not a separate ethnicity to those who already have large swathes of resource rich Arab ethnostate lands.
It would have been much more valuable if he repeated the audience's questions or they had a microphone. I feel like I'm hearing one side of a conversation.
@@novacancy7253there is a maximum we can boost our volume. It should be habitual on the part of all public speakers to repeat the question and then answer it.
@@cowmath77 yes, indeed. Everyone who talks to an audience while on camera should remember to repeat the question and then answer it. Even if the acoustics are such that everyone in the room can *probably* hear the question (and there might be some with moderate hearing impairments who cannot), the mic in the camera does not necessarily pick up the question. That results in the speaker seeming to make random remarks that have no context. At a monthly meeting that I attend that is also live streamed, our officer who introduces the speaker says, “For the sake of the live stream, please repeat the question before answering it.” I, sitting in the room, with hearing aids, also appreciate it.
12:33: "Because we have a lot of nations, we're done with nations" . It's funny how Haviv inadvertently does a perfect Trump impersonation while saying that line; he even does the classic Trump hand gestures, too.
Thanks, this is a good comparative analysis of the mindsets and histories of both the Jews and Palestinian peoples. Growing up in Malaysia, I understand why many Malay Muslims identify with the Palestinians as both fellow Muslims and victims of colonialism. In NZ where I now live, Palestinian activists have networked with the left and Maori rights activists by framing Israel-Palestine as a colonial conflict.
And you'd be mistaken if you think it is not. From what I have understood from this lecture, it is both a colonial AND a refugee conflict. It depends on who is powering the conflict and for what purposes. The end result is almost always more dead Arabs than Israelis.
I am a British non jew . I am ashamed to admit our colonial past and how we were reponsibñe for so much of the nationañism gone wrong. We also talked of the Jewish problem . This is amazing hisrory if onñy many would listen to the history.
You shouldn't be ashamed of the past - it is just that. The past has many horrors and every people on the planet has participated in the horror. The strongest have always subdued the weakest. Always. Those who grew powerful through new technology obviously carried on as normal and conquered as many countries as possiblie. That has happened throughout history. Slavery also followed the same story. Did you know Dublin was not a rich city before it began to sell English slaves? The great thing is that in the modern age, for a million reasons, that process has slowed down somewhat and people are resisting the powerful elites' surge for empire building in the west. Because of public opinion, the Vietnam war was stopped, troops were withdrawn from Afganistan and the western power-brokers are now unable to invade other countries because the public is sick of it. There is no way, for example, that the US and UK would dare to invade Iraq now. They probably wouldn't be able to rely on the public concensus to intervene in Kuwait either. I hope the public remain sick of the violence now they can see it on the various screens. And that is the truth of the matter - at the moment, we are privileged enough to see what our armies are doing abroad. It was never like that in the past. The public were only told what they were allowed to know. Even in Gaza now, as horrific as it is, I believe it would be much worse without the weight of public opinion against an even more powerful response by Israel. Whatever anyone thinks, the IDF are being more careful now because the world is sick of the violence. Sorry for the rant. Btw, I also think that 'Free Palistine' protests are just another way of saying kill all the Jews. If people want peace, then march for peace - not for one side in a conflict. That one-sided support is just an attack on the otherside and resolves nothing. March for peace and reach out to both sides. It takes two to tango and God is not going to protect anyone. He/She/It never has.
@@marksutton5817 if you seriously think free palestine protests is about killing jews then you are utterly brainwashed by hasbara propaganda. Jews march too you know. Majority of Brits marching dont want to see civilian infrastructure levelled, families lives torn apart, mass bombing and murder To make it about "killing jews" is dishonest, intellectually corrupt and arrogant of you
This lecturer was the first person I listened to who knew how terror organisations work and how they try to achieve their goals. And he did it with the example of martin luther king which to me was unexpected and new knowledge. That point was the hight of this lecture and I understand now why it has so much views. Many more Jews and Israelis need to listen to this lecture.
Just to be clear, he was NOT saying that MLK uses the same strategy of terror organizations. He’s saying that the path to Palestine peace would be to abandon terror attacks and use MLK’s strategy.
@@GotWoodChuck Maybe. But he revealed more than that. What he said about MLK is a very similar principle of a terror organization way of achieving it's goals. Quote: "And by the way, King was not polite, King was not gentle, there is a profoundly coercive, non violent palestinian strategy. . .how long before israeli left is back?" Terror is a coercive strategy. You attack with such a way that forces your enemy to respond against a civilian population. Then you wait for the Internal and International pressure to make the situation "unpleasant, untenable, and therefore had to change”. In MLK's case or Gandi, the tactic means creating provocations that elicit violent response against a civilian population. In terror groups case, to hurt the enemy's prestige, or cause so much damage, he must react in a harsh way against a civilian population. That is the principle that was used in Algeria against the french, and in Cyprus against the British. And by the Etzel as well. Sometimes it works, especially against foreign colonial powers in an age of democratic mass media, and slow fall of old empires. Sometimes, it doesn't work. Arab pallies and their Arab backers (now Iran), have used this. And especially in the first and second "Intifada". And in every round in Gaza. Look at palywood. look at the the fake numbers. look at cameras waiting in front of children to try and elicit a reaction from a soldier being taunted. That is the winning core of their narrative - Being a Victim. And using the violence of the other side to advance it.
@@compovi8461 ""such a way that forces your enemy to respond against a civilian population.....he must react in a harsh way against a civilian population."" it's not that he Must then Attack harshly... it's that he will because of it's violent nature given the history...even the non violent walks and protests are met with unhinged violence... let alone a staged jailbreak with absent forces for a planned 6 hour free time
Very interesting presentation, but hard to listen on the internet in the way he is presenting: asking repeatedly questions from the audience; very loudly at times presenting material…. May be it is good to listen inside room, but not convenient for outside listener.
Thank you for your introduction!! It is beautiful to hear Jews, such wonderful people & culture address our problematic present. I am a gentile. I have a reverence for Judaism. But I have deep problems with contemporary Israel. Thank you so much for allowing comments. God have mercy on us all. It will the first words from all our lips: "mercy Lord!".
@@phyllisbarr4766He is likely one of those gentiles who thinks we are beautiful and dignified when we stoically walk into the cattle cars, but has problems when we defend ourselves.
@@Sl1pstreams Yes. EVERYBODY who has ANY criticism of the actions of the Israeli government under Netanyahu is antisemitic, and wants to see Israel destroyed - even the many *Jews* who oppose the policies towards the Palestinians are antisemitic "self-hating Jews", even those who are *Jewish Israeli citizens* and protest the war are antisemites!! You can't just go crying "Antisemites!" everytime someone criticisms the Israeli government. Because eventually, just like the "Boy Who Cried Wolf", nobody is going to believe you anymore. "Defend ourselves". Yea, and how many more Gazan children have to die until you feel safe? Obviously the 10,000+ (probably closer to 20,000) aren't enough, so can you give me a rough estimate of how many more need die? Or maybe you are on the side of those like Jared Kushner or those within the Likud Party who want to see the IDF "Finish the job" and free up all of that "Valuable real estate" in Gaza for "development" of "Jewish settlements". Which is the literal definition of "ethnic cleansing"!!
reminds me of the cartoon with the hamasshole guy holding with a sign that says kill all Jews and a baby that is hostage and an intermediary sitting between them and Netanyahu the intermediary asks Netanayahu...Can't you meet them half way? @@Sl1pstreams
@@phyllisbarr4766 Well it was founded on massive land theft, expulsions and atrocities. And it continues inflicting atrocities, and some of its ministers now are explicitly planning and advocating seizing the rest of the land. But to recognize any of this you have to recognize the humanity of the people this was imposed upon. Zionists have a LOT of trouble recognizing the humanity of the Palestinian people.
Even worse - according to the presenter - the view by the Palestinian elite seeing Islam was humiliatingly pushed out by lowly Jewish Russian refugees, not defeated with honor by powerful Western nations.
@@davesax11 yes u r right ,the muslims consistently talk ab how perfect their religion is ,abt how quickly their religion is spreading throught out the world,as to how islam alone could solve world problems etc etc.....
Glad that there are some teachers left in this world, eager to make others to research and learn thinking and acting upgrade in many regards. What he says about MLK is what I was scorned for 45 years ago, when I told my not white colored friends in th US-Army just the same.
I think there is only one conclusion: if the Israel story doesn't work and the Palestinian story doesn't work, it's time for a new story. And the template is there: secular states that allow all religions.
Well said. 🙂 There are people trying to create this right now. Look up Standing Together. They are a jointly-led Israeli-Palestinian peace organization that works to make Israel a home for all its citizens.
@@Drekromancer It is sad that the West applies different rules to Israel than to any other nation. Everywhere else, the separation of church and state is celebrated. Just not in Israel. Many people are too ignorant to recognize the contradictions in their beliefs.
The problem I see is that the conflict is only partly over religion. To a large extent its about lost land, past harms, security concerns, geopolitics in the background, etc.
What is the question around 43:00 where he says, I don't want to get into it, but wikipedia is your friend. It's something about the San Remo conference.
we live in Israel, Jews and Arabs, and we have good life. most of us live without politics and getting into deep stories. we are the present and the future of the middle east
Yes, even the lecturer in this video clearly says: "it's at the heart of the internal Palestinian elites' discussion of us"... Did you even watch the video before making your ignorant comment?
@@nadanaim307let's assume you are a people who breeds Nobel laureates. The question isn't are you having high brow conversations but could a Palestinian professor walk in to a Palestinian classroom and talk about why Jews have a legitimate story in which they are genuinely the indigenous people or even better yet could I walk in an talk about women having freedom. Are you seriously going to suggest that answer might be yes.
חביב, כל כך מעודד להקשיב לך, לראות שצעירים מקשיבים לך וחושבים איתך. בלי מהומה, בלי זעקה, בלי ויכוחים לא משקפים. הידע ההיסטורי הזה נחוץ כדי להניע את הדרך שארץ הקודש צועדת כיום בכיוון שכדאי לחיות לכולם, בכל העולם. אין שלום בארץ הקודש פירושו לשחק עם הפתיל של שלום עולמי. שתחיה ארוכים, בריאים וחכמים
I hope Douglas Murray listens to this brilliant lecture and gives it more legs. Murray's platform is big enough to teach a lot of people, especially non-Jews, sitting on the fence regarding Israel/Hamas war. More people need to know this stuff.
This is one of the great lessons to be tought. I would love to hear more, structive, thoughts about: - You only talked about the feelings of the refugees and the actions of the Arab Leaders towards it, what do you have about Zionst actions and Local palestinian feelings towards it. - What wat rhe status before 1948 in the Arab world and why the migration only started after the cration of the state. Im not here to debate, I am here to learn more
50:45 The part about the Arab revolt from 1936 to 1939 is completely fascinating, in that the Arab aggression turned the Jews from unstructured militias into actual fighting forces with a hierarchy and training, thus preparing the Jews for success in 1948.
Just as u$a does now, brit empire uses proxy states as its method to expand extortion / forever wars profits RATHER than seek collaboration and peace. Classic empire / capitalism models of exploitation.
You seem to be saying that the accusation of "colonialism" is to do with Israel's sponsor (America, Britain, USSR...). I don't think America's anti-Israel activists see it that way. They believe Jews are colonial on their own behalf, and not on behalf of some greater power.
That's not true, at least not mostly. The Jews aren't to blame, the Zionists that knew they are oppressing another nation are to blame. There are many Jews who say, for religious reasons, that Israel shouldn't exist but they're following the scripture instead of political manipulators and holocaust exploiters. The Zionists that started the mess persuaded the British into the invasion of Palestine and then they involved the US because it was a bigger power and still is, David Ben-Gurion also states this in his diary and Golda Meir also admits the amount of times she had to go to the US to get them to agree to the colonial project. The colonisers are the Zionist Jews, although I wouldn't put those two words together because Zionism has become Kahanism today.
Honestly, I think both positions are held by some parts of the coalition. And there's some overlap too, where Americans see Israel as an independent colonial power which is being subsidized, tolerated, and enabled by America. So it's hard to distinguish.
@@Drekromancer Israel is a U.S. ally. But the U.S. wasn't involved in Israel's founding. Britain was, but their support of the Jews was very mixed. They restricted Jewish immigration prior to Israel's founding, and betrayed certain promises. Neither England nor the U.S. created the idea of a Jewish state. That was a purely Jewish creation in the 1800's. Israel's founding was led and implemented by Jews, not the U.S. or the Brits.
@@Drekromancer The claim of Jewish "colonialism" is a hypocritical joke. Colonialism is when an established nation goes about conquering other regions to expand their empire. That's not a description of Israel. Jews were a people without their own nation, because they were displaced over and over, for centuries, everywhere they ever tried to live. Then 6 million Jews were murdered in WW2. Israel is a refugee state. There was never a Jewish empire anywhere, but there was a Christian empire and a Muslim empire. Christians and Muslims attacked, colonized, and enslaved other people's lands for centuries. Through all that time, Jews were ghettoized, mass-murdered, and kicked out. The Muslim world today occupies 30 million square kilometers. Israel is 1/18th the size of California. For any Christian or Muslim to call Israel "colonialism" is a disgusting hypocrisy.
This professor needs to stop yelling for dramatic effect. Love his content but his delivery ruins it. He tries too hard to be dramatic and it's annoying.
@@aligned4good Because he used facts and constructed a reasonable story where the Zionists are not pure evil. If you really want to learn the true history, I suggest you ignore all that Zionist propaganda and only consider pro-Palestinian sources.
As an American with Kurdish ancestry I have always been a supporter of Israel and Jewish people, unfortunately the recent events made me rethink all my previous assumptions including almost everything said in this video, I say unfortunately because I and everyone I know in my family and friends circle have an emotional bond with the struggle of Jewish people throughout history and having that image in my mind shattered is difficult.
What previous assumptions are you questioning? I'm an American Jew so I have sympathies for Israel, but if you knew the history of the conflict it was pretty clear it would play out this way on October 8th. I used to have more sympathy for the Palestinian cause until I saw all the marches celebrating October 7th, including quite a few outside of my apartment in Chicago. It was strange to see them in a celebratory mood because I was very distraught knowing what was going to happen to their people. Either they somehow didn't know what was going to happen to Gaza or they did and they were just happier to see the "Zionist entity" suffer a small defeat.
@@trogdor8942they were celebrating because they have lost every war and suffered every indignity possible for the last 75 years. For them it was one victory against their oppressors. Was it right to celebrate the massacre of people of course not... but Israel has murdered and imprisoned so many Palestinians over the years that at least they could celebrate fighting back...
@@trogdor8942To be fair, Israelis cheer as bombs rain on Gaza. Many speak openly about their desires for Palestinians to be killed or pushed out. They set up bouncy houses and cotton candy machines as they block food and aid getting to starving Palestinians. We have all heard and seen the evidence many times over. How can you condemn one side but not the other?
Amazing lesson, I applaud this kind of teaching, getting people to think about the other side while providing historical facts! Just wish they could have something similiar in Palestine...
This was the greatest lecture I’ve ever watched about Israeli history! And I didn’t know until the end that it was for American Jews on their birthright trip, that is so amazing 😍 I’m going to go read his work and watch his lectures, wow wish I had him as a professor! As an Iranian, an American, a Christian, and a human: I stand with Israel, and always will, as do my fellow Iranians. Iranians forever stand with our Israeli and Jewish brothers and sisters 🙏🏽
Winston Churchill "there is no such thing as people's opinion, there is only printed opinion." Palestine fist used in 1910 & It was spell Falestine !!! I am Hindu who always suspected "British & Otteman empire were architect of modern history. There was no Pakistan in beginning of 1900, not even Muslims. Then "Save Calipha movement in 1917". Only country where save Calipha movement started. All other Muslim kingdom wanted their kingdom back from Otteman. Sir, thank you very much for your insights.
A deep rooted problem - when religions claim theirs is the only way to eternal life and rest are not-important or evil then it can get weaponised at a global scale by powerful interests. You can pretty much justify anything in the name of your definition of "almighty". Other kind of non-religious based conflicts don't scale as much or last that long. Until these problems are understood and recognised and made improvements they will continue to do the damage in a big way. Conflicts among humans will never go away fully but certainly can be minimized.
Exactly! The only solution to this problem is a different story that doesn't distinguish between people on the basis of their religion. In the long run, the only way to save Israel is to ditch the idea of Israel, rename it and build a secular state.
Insane. Blaming Islam and ignoring Israel, esp with whats going on right now. That's like blaming the jews for the Holocaust. Your position is the exact same kind of rhetoric that fuels the dehumanizing of Palestinians by Israelis. "What can we do? They have a violent religion." Meanwhile the jews have a religion of peace and Israel is committing genocide. Religion is not real, behavior is. Focusing on the religious part is idiotic. Might as well focus on what type of shoes people wear. What a crock of shyte
this is absolutely on purpose... Subtitles Could have been FOR ALL!!! That it is why l see it as part of shaping the view type of video: %only for ~1 person from the audience there were subtitles .. EVERYONE WHO actually watched it.. know that a lot of people from audience participated... but on purpose we can't hear their opinion. !?! So question is...: CAN we here different opinions, on different questions; ....or not😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🎉😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😊
The other problem here is that the words colonialist and empire are used in a negative way only against the French and the English. Germany and the Islamic Ottoman Empire were colonial empires also .
El Alamein was lost according to Rommel, because the Nazis ran out of fuel. Why? The Soviet Union had seized Baku, Azerbaijan, and therefore had control over the oil that Hitler needed and had ran out of as the war progressed, in both El Alamein and Stalingrad, where they didn't have enough fuel to retreat. So..... actually it was the Soviet Union (Russian and heavily Jewish in science and engineering and intelligence (Cheka)), who had indirectly beaten the Nazis, EVEN at El Alamein
Um... Cheka wasn't intelligence, and it certainly wasn't military intelligence. They were a commission created to root out counter-revolutionary activity during and after the 1917 revolution, and were dissolved in 1922. They were succeeded by OGPU, then NKVD... all of which were ministries for *interior* security. GRU was the Soviet intelligence agency in WW2.
The Soviets also, btw, were pretty directly responsible for the start of WWII and therefore, indirectly, the Holocaust. If it hadn't been for the Molotov/Ribbentrop Pact, Hitler might never have started the war at all. He was desperate to avoid the two front war that had led to Germany's loss in WWI, so Germany allied with their Soviet friends, which of course made sense: they were both totalitarian countries with state-run economies, atheist ideologies, and expansionist agendas. Their alliance was so natural that when Hitler betrayed it two years in Stalin was so shocked that he was incommunicado for several days afterward. Had there been a possibility in 1939 that the Soviets would ally with the West, everything would almost certainly have been different. But of course Hitler offered them half of Eastern Europe as a de facto slave empire, and Stalin jumped at that... and as it turned out they got all of it, plus half of Germany itself, for half a century.
The overall reason was that the RAF decimated Rommel's meager supply chain. Moreover, Rommel violated his orders and went way further than the Germans could supply him for. The resources were never there to take Egypt.
That goes back to just the pure religion, what they're told in the book. The only way to solve those problems is for them to move towards secularism, as most of the other religions in the world have done over the last 500 years.
@@intuitionist1 It's a very short book, especially compared to the Bible. I do own a translated copy of the Koran. The whole thing is in huge decorative print with thick pages. It's like a children's book. It goes on and on about how to treat your captive slave women, unbelievers that you have conquered militarily, "whom your right hand possesses," whether you have to feed them or how much, and what kind of rituals you have to go through before you can force them to have sex with you. There are slightly different rules for when and how to force your wives to have sex with you. There is no concept of consent on the part of the women. It's only about going through the motions of religious ritual, to make sure that God doesn't hold your sex-having against you. You have to abstain on certain days, etc.
interesting to witness this as an arab, unfortunately, this still doesn't even scratch the surface. great start but only a start to empathise. may I offer a piece of advice? be audacious, ask more questions, starting from here
There are no two sides. There were innocent Jewish refugees manipulated and broken by the Imperial West and now they've picked the Imperialists baton in this delusional of self preservation is justification. Now the jailed has become the jailer. The oppressed has become the oppressor. Evil is evil. Don't get me wrong, as a Muslim I proudly say fuck Islamism and most certainly antisemitism. But what Israel is, that's just shameful.
Hi Palestinian here living in West Bank. I don’t see this as zero sum conflict as in Israelis can stay despite the fact that my experience with them throughout my life has only been unpleasant (and by unpleasant I mean gory, scary, and full of rage). That being said, I believe that the statement that Israelis have no where to go is more than disingenuous. It’s not the last century anymore and many Israelis have American or/ and European passports. I’m not saying they need to leave, most of them got a horrible accent and don’t really belong there anyway, besides the ones that leave are not extremists and the little Ben-Gvirs but rather the sane ones. But what I’m saying is that the phrase ‘no where to go’ can be misleading especially in a world where any citizen of any country can come be a permanent resident on this land just for being Jewish. And especially when this very statement i.e. ‘no where to go’ hold more ground when describing us Palestinians; I for one only have Palestinians passport living in West Bank can only go into Jordan and even then can’t get to become a citizen there. So between the options ‘believe in Zionism’, ‘admit it’s a Jewish homeland’, and ‘Jews got no where to go’ I nor any Palestinian I can think of finds justice or truth in that on the Israeli side. What I can work with, however, is that Israelis have also suffered even though their suffering is in the thousands and ours is in the hundreds of thousands. I also believe that both of us have been on this land for more than a life time and no one has to go anywhere. I admit not a lot of Palestinians came to this conclusion yet nor do I blame them for for it as it is hard to think that way when you have a killed family member, a bulldozed house, a land you get kicked out of, or when your daily life involve a soldiers harassing you on checkpoints. I don’t believe any of the kids in Gaza who had their family, friends, pets, and belongings blown up to pieces and are left with injuries and PTSDs for the rest of their lives can comprehend the idea seeing justice on the other side. I for one have to constantly contain myself and not think about what I see in Gaza to be able to think and speak that way. If Israel really wants a future of peace with us Palestinians, they should give us a reason to forget our suffering and misery and start thinking forward. One great way to get us to do that as you might have guessed is to stop the suffering and misery. Stop expanding settlements, stop raiding houses, stop kicking people out of their homes, and stop military occupation and military trials. But honestly why would someone like Bibi do that? He can keep us radicalized and hateful of Israel to the point of not even being able to think of peace and he gets to justify killing us, grabbing more land, and kicking more of us out. I don’t want to talk about colonialism bit and drag this for longer than it is but since he talked about MLK strategy of creating a violent response that can’t be ignored, dare I say that’s somewhat akin to Hamas strategy. Nevertheless, more than 30,000 have been killed in Gaza in the span of less than 6 months, including more than 10,000 children; people are starving; most of Gaza is flattened; and 5% of the population is either dead, mutilated, or missing. Yet most of Israelis support this war to continue. Not one Israeli TV news channel is broadcasting what the world sees happening in Gaza. If that’s really the answer how much more bloody does it need to get? If there is one thing I need Israelis to hear is that the burden of initiating peace falls not on the underdog who is being beaten up and fights back but on you who’s got the upper hand and being psychotic in thinking you’re always the victim doesn’t help. Peace,
What an arrogant comment - "most of them got a horrible accent and don’t really belong there anyway". Well I assure you before 1948 the Jews in eastern and central and western Europe had a perfect accent - Russian, Polish, German, Dutch or whatever, they thought they belonged in Europe but the Europeans made it clear to them that they were not welcomed. Even in the US there was always a discrimination against the Jews before 1948 (and after). So yes, Jews can live in the west but are not totally welcomed there and always face some sort of discrimination and antisemitism to a more or less extent. As an Israeli who live in Jerusalem I see people like you - Palestinians from the west bank who seem to really enjoy spending time in Israel and among Israelis (that's before 7/10). I used to see them regularly in our coffee shops, malls, parks etc. They didn't seem scared but very content. Also for some reason they seem to want to become Israeli citizens real bad. They constantly try to get an Israeli ID and try to work in Israel legally or illegally. You might not mind the 2 states solution but you have to be blind not to know that most of your people rejected and still reject that idea and have constantly attacked Israel and Israelis. You Palestinians are Arabs. Before 1948 many of you came and went from the holy land to other areas in the middle east and had families in places that are now Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria etc. You have the same language and culture and before the British and French created separated Arab states you all saw yourselves as part of the big Arab nation. So don't tell me that "Palestinians" who came to the holy land from Egypt a 100 years ago, all of a sudden cannot be part of Egypt. The only reason you cannot be citizens of Arabs countries is because the Arabs want to keep you as refugees so the conflict will stay alive. The Europeans on the other hand always saw the Jews as different than them. You don't know much about history and Zionism. If you really want to understand what's going on I recommend that you learn. Zionism was started because of European antisemitism. In addition it was called Zionism because of the UNDENIABLE connection of the Jewish people to Zion (Jerusalem) and the holy land. You have to be a real ignorant not to know about that. And please don't play the victim. Among us Jews and Palestinians I think we can drop the masks you put for the west. Israelis and Jews (before 1948) suffered your barbaric savage attacks - rapes, murders of women, babies, children, old people for more than a 100 years. Only in extreme and few cases did Jews went our and murdered civilian Palestinians and even then never with the savagery of your people. And when these few cases happened, there was a shock and total condemnation from all the Jewish or Israeli public. In your case this is the norm and the culture. And most of your casualties only happen when you attacked first. You can clearly see the difference between us and you when you see the parents of children that your terrorists butchered speak in pain, but never with hate and revenge and never teach their other children to become shahids like your people do. I can continue to comment on your usual lies but I'm afraid my comment will be to long and will not be posted.
Please ...... evry good and lasting change comes from within. Only true solution is : Palestinians will have to find peace in their hearts and get rid of their gangster leaders. While the Jews will have to understand that peace can only be obtained.... when they get rid of their own aggressive leaders.
"being psychotic in thinking you’re always the victim" refers to whom? Apparently to underscore one's point, Killing children goes back to Abraham as a part of the process.
It's really good to hear a respectful contrasting opinion. One not written in anger or at least not coming across that way. If you can't except the the Jews have nowhere to go, maybe you can work on accepting that they choose not to. In any real sense it is they that have built a decent literate civilization for at least themselves, but also many of the Arabs who live there. As seen from afar it's quite clear that the increasing suppression of the Arabs/Palestinians in Israel is a function not of the strong attacking the weak but of the weak weaponizing that weakness and using it to attack. Israel tried to make peace, multiple times. Each time the Palestinians said, "no!" That was their right, but the last serious attempt brought on the second intifada. It speaks to a total lack of collective responsibility on the side of the Arabs; that they lost 3, maybe 5 wars and still insist that the Israelis are the war mongers. If you want peace you have to make real concessions, painful concessions. The right of return is dead. As an American I've never seen any serious discussion from the Arab side of a solution to the conflict that isn't demographic or political suicide for Israel and that guarantees no peace. The story is complicated, but at its base these are two people telling two different stories, one with a lot more self reflection and honesty than the other.
The European colonialist settlers who stole all the land of America from the indigenous peoples could also claim "they have nowhere to go." The fact remains it was a vicious land grab by settlers willing to exterminate a native population so they could have a nice home for themselves.
The whole thing was a blaady mess for real, it started off as political where the Russian Jews who immigrated, fleeing as refugees were in fact pillared between posts really; of the Ottoman demise, which wasn’t their fault and the British, then the religious argument came in to support and validate the narrative. At this juncture in history the wise should see though, that both peoples are there to stay and should strive to live in peace like the majority of Arabs in Israel, or just stay in their territory, cause the war(s) is over and we all need to live.
Both sides: Arabs against Jews Muslims against Jews 21 Arab countries against Israel 56 Muslim countries against Israel Islam vs. Judaism Shia vs. Sunni Iran vs. Turkey vs. KSA vs. Egypt USSR/Russia vs. USA East vs. West Partial list of drivers of this conflict
He talks about how the Palestinian elite were thinking, not about how the man in the street was feeling. Strangers coming to a land, speaking a foreign language and not mixing with the locals, this is bound to cause some hostility. He ignores this fact. The Arabs did not consider themselves as Ottomans as the empire did not integrate its subjects, rather treated them as separate communities with their own culture, language and traditions.
At the beginning of the century, jews coming to Israel had the Arab as an ideal of a free person living freely on his land. They very much wanted to befried the arabs, learned agriculture from them, emulated them in dress, etc.
None of the Jewish leaders who came to Israel at the start of the twentieth spoke Arabic. Not Ben Gurion, Golda Meir, Moshe Sharett, Eshkol, etc. The first step in befriending the locals is to learn their language.
@@lizberezin2919Sorry, how can you be friendly if you can't or won't communicate with the locals ? Hebrew is similar to Arabic, it wouldn't have been that difficult. East Europeans viewed the Arabs with condescension just as they did their brethren from Arab lands.
@@ghamrahuk You easily can. I live in Israel and I work with some Arab people and I am friendly with them in Hebrew. I don't speak Arabic, but I absolutely don't feel any condensation or whatever towards them. I feel towards them as I feel towards my other teammates. Sorry, what you are saying has no connection to reality.
Haviv Rettig Gur is my favourite person to listen to regarding all things Israel and Jewish these days. He is exceptional, knowledgeable, balanced, nuanced and genuine.
I wonder why you would think is exceptional, when he is simply cherry picking from history and literally re-defining events and terms so they are in line with the Israeli and Jewish supremacy
But I guess that is Hasbara for you
Well said narrative about the Arabs; I testify as a Muslilm-born Arabian Egyptian.
It's refreshing to finally have that narrative validated
you testify as an idiot lmfaoo we're not smart, and you're the living proof
@@Fruitytooty6969 by one person on the internet? Nice sample set you have there
@@Fruitytooty6969by one person on the internet? 😂
@@user0m170 by Haviv, yes. Talking about observed behaviors in the arab-muslim world, and explaining them citing the sources from which that mindset comes: islamic scripture and arab-muslim history.
The way to think and beliefs we were taught in arab-muslim world, growing up muslim; talked about while being mindful of biases, and without embellishement. Yes I appreciate Haviv doing that
This guy teaches a few dozens of students in class, though it’s also seen by over 100k people. Internet is a powerful tool.
Now over half a million!
Yes now more people can celebrate a fake intellectual
Awwww man! I have such deep respect for you Haviv. Your are intelligent, erudite, passionate. I wish every University student in the WORLD could hear you speak 🔥
On the 7th, it is crucial to understand that there were no direct attacks on civilians, only collateral damage. Out of the 1148 total names on haaret dataset, 473 military and 675 were civilians.
Ratio of civilians to military personnel killed on the 7th was 1 . 4 : 1 - lower than any of the iTf "mowing" operations, which has a ratio of 7 : 1
According to UN OCHA data from 2008 to 2022; The collateral damage on the 7th was significantly lower than any of the ITf "mowing" operations, which had a ratio of 7:1 with 1,023 military personnel out of 6,541 total.
On the 7th, with 473 military (418 were iTf military personnel, 55 belonged to the police) out of 1148 total, the ratio of civilians to military personnel was a mere 1.4:1
When including all casualties, not just deaths, the collateral damage ratio of the "mowing" operations is a staggering 162:1
From the 161,233 accumulated civilian casualties over only 14 years of "mowing" operations.
A 162 :1 ratio means that for every 162 civillians, 1 military personnel is a casualty. The 7th had a ratio of 1.4:1, more than a hundred times lower.
The 473 are - 55 soldiers, 13 privates, 59 corporals, 200 sergeants (45 of whom were sergeant majors), 48 commanders, 32 lieutenants, 5 lieutenant colonels, 6 colonels, 37 officers, 10 inspectors, 6 intendents, and 2 Lance Corp. This was a military defeat, and they are taking it out on the rest.
The reported ages of the victims are as follows:
0-4: 2 civilians
5-12: 8 civilians
13-17: 14 civilians
18-25: 132 civilians
26-40: 119 civilians
41-60: 55 civilians
61+: 40 civilians
Active duty military personnel:
18-25: 258 active duty military personnel
26-40: 60 active duty military personnel
41-60: 17 active duty military personnel
61+: 1 active duty military personnel
haaretz datasheet titled title: xsraxl's Dead: The Names of Those Killed in Hxmxs Attacks, Mxssxcres and the xsrxel-Hxmxs Wxr
There is a more detailed report of of oct 7th titled "I scrapped the information about 1096 of the 1460 killed on 7th of October Attack. Children Less than 1%"
-Yocheved Lifshitz account - 'they treated us well'
-Yasmin Porat account - 'i.T.f kxilled my husband'
Civilians were taken to have swaps for the civilians rotting in prisons without charge on the other side. An excess of ten thousands, all before the seventh
UN Human Rights Office (UN OCHA) PA Civilians 2008-2023:
2008 - 2,325 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,440.
2012 - 3,992 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 255.
2014 - 17,533 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,492.
2018 - 31,259 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 300.
2019 - 15,491 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 138.
2020 - 2,581 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 30.
2021 - 19,183 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 349.
2022 - 10,345 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 191.
2023 up to September - 8,508 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 227.
civilian deaths on the other side -
2008: 3 , 2012: 6 , 2014: 73 , 2018: 9
2019: 10 , 2020: 0 , 2021: 9 , 2022: 26
Total; 2008 up to September 2023 - 161,233 PA Civilian Casualties, 1,023 military personnel.
Wounded includes: amputees from the deliberate targeting of knees by snipers, white phosphorous third degree body burns, etc
The "Costs of War" study by brown in 2021 has these figures for the past 20 years of engagement of US policy: indirect deaths 4.5-4.7 million, direct 905-940,000 ; in other words 6 Million Deaths and 38 million displaced. This is relevant because of the Oded Yinon Plan.
They are following scripture, the word עוֹלֵל, ʿôlēl which means 'Babe, infant, little one, a suckling' occurs 21 King James Bible Verses Of these verses:
“Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” -Psalm 137:9
“Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”-1 Samuel 15:3
“Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.”-Jeremiah 6:11
“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”-Hosea 13:16
The other verses are not much different. Infact it is always in association with violence. Indeed these verses are the reason why in the Crusades the sense of pious rejoicing at massacre does not appear to be the product of later theologizing; it is also found, in the account of the eye-witness Raymond of Aguilers:
“in the Temple and porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies.” In fact, Raymond continues, “This day, I say, will be famous in all future ages, for it turned our labours and sorrows into joy and exultation; this day, I say, marks the justification of all Christianity, the humiliation of paganism, and the renewal of our faith.”
This is the polar opposite in the Quran in Surah Al-Tanwir, literally "The Englightenining" Surah, Aya 8-9, we have the death of a newborn is mentioned amongst the penultimate signs of the end of times, emphasizing the gravity of such an action. That child, now resurrected, is asked for what wrong doing was she murdered. This is to emphasize that she had done nothing wrong, for she had done nothing wrong and this is the day of retribution where those who omitted the evil are to be punished.
This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190, which exhorts to fight unbelievers and not be "Aggressors", in the commentary of what it means to be aggressors, this was stated Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah):
"includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit."
This is also the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated that Allah's Messenger said: "Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal, commit treachery, mutilate, or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship."
It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, "The Prophet forbade killing women and children."
بابتداء القتال أو بقتال من نهيتم عن قتاله من النساء والشيوخ والصبيان والذين بينكم وبينهم عهد أو بالمثلة أو بالمفاجأة من غير دعوة
"To kill those whom you were forbidden to from women, elderly, children and those whom betwixt you is a treaty or custom or by surprise or without cause"
-Tafsir Al-Zamakshari of the meaning of Aggressors in the Aya
More hadith from Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah:
حَدَّثَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ شَيْخٍ، مِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَوْلَى لِبَنِي عَبْدِ الْأَشْهَلِ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَ إِذَا بَعَثَ جُيُوشَهُ قَالَ: «§لَا تَقْتُلُوا أَصْحَابَ الصَّوَامِعِ»
"Do not kill the dwellers of monasteries"
حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ فُضَيْلٍ، عَنْ جُوَيْبِرٍ، عَنِ الضَّحَّاكِ قَالَ: كَانَ «§يُنْهَى عَنْ قَتْلِ الْمَرْأَةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ»
سَعْدٍ قَالَ: «§نَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَنْ قَتْلِ النِّسَاءِ وَالذُّرِّيَّةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ الَّذِي لَا حَرَاكَ بِهِ»
"The prophet forbids the killing of women, children, and the elderly"
This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Anfal Ayah 61 in which even oath breaking deniers/unbelievers are allowed to sue for peace states if the unbelievers they ask for peace, give it to them.
Stephen Langton, the writer of the Magna Carta (12th century, contemporary with the crusades for a reason) studied in the university of Paris which archives show had plenty of Arabic treatises in its procession, there can be no question about it being inspired by the "Sharia". both the renessiance and the european enlightenment were directly preceded by massive translation movements form Arabic (see the Republic of Letters by Alexander Bevilacqua, The House of Wisdom: How the Arabs Transformed Western Civilization By: Jonathan Lyons.
The modifiable testament testament commands indiscriminate killing, genocide, plunder, mutilation, enslavement, or torture of enemies, including women, on the other hand.Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190 limits war to those who fight against Muslims, prohibits transgression, and implies respect for human dignity and life Indeed it is what precedes the famous "sword verse", always cited out of context.
God did bring down the Qur’an, Mohamed is his Messenger.
Say that again. 😅😅, all rubish.
@@alnon6304 tautoko that! 💙
I wish every Uni student in the world could hear the famous scholar Prof. Nadera of Hebrew University speak, but the Israelis arrested her and are persecuting her for her academic work, so nobody can hear her.
@@alnon6304 prove it
"If you don't understand why the other side isn't stupid, you haven't done your homework." This is a great quote, and a lesson that a lot of people ought to learn.
Stupidity was not defined.
If you don't recognize that the other side can be irrational you're not living in the real world.
🙏🙏
This is similar to the philosopher’s credo that you allow your opponent the best possible interpretation of his argument. Then you crush him. Lol.
@@CarsInDimension
If marriage consultants would follow your premise they would constantly fail.
If you want to solve a conflict, you don't refer to "rationality", but needs and wishes.
As a foreigner who has lived and volunteered in the Palestinian city of Nablus, and also travelled to many other parts of the West Bank and Israel to visit Jewish, Muslim, Christian, and nonreligious friends, I am inspired by the idea offered at the end of this lecture about shifting perspectives on the conflict from a hateful zero-sum game to a tragic conflict with a possible solution. Recognizing valid points, grievances, and aspirations on both sides, with various forms of justice and injustice, and a willingness to compromise, and the recognition of mutual humanity and indeed numerous cultural, linguistic, religious, and historical overlap, then open, compassionate, and well-informed dialogue could actually lead to peace. It gives me a glimmer of hope when there is so little right now. Thanks for this knowledgeable, incisive, thought-provoking, balanced, and entertaining lecture.
Too many people on both sides WANT it to be a zero-sum game. Hurting the other side is half the point.
I struggle with how the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict could be re-evaluated as a search for more justice in the other’s paradigm. Dr. King noticed that White America conceptually believed in equality for all citizens but practically did not implement that, creating an argument that he could use to say, “Do you really believe in the equality you say is the basis of the US governmental system?”
The fundamental purpose of Israel is to create Jewish self-government and the fundamental purpose of Palestine is to expel the invaders. The great justice of Israel is the success of Jews willing to create a homeland and the great justice of Palestine is restoring Arab Muslim governance and expulsion of foreign elements. These are irreconcilable visions.
That will never happen because violence and hatred are the core of islam.
The truth is there has always been a strong will compromise within Israel and the design is psyche. There is no Will for compromise amongst the Palestinian Arab population or leadership with the exception of a few individuals who have no voice or influence in that society. Be honest about that.
😢@@ShamAmram
Excellent lecture. Having said that, the British defense of El-Alamein wasn't primarily intended to protect the Jews of Palestine but to protect the land route to India, where the Nazis had many sympathizers among the independentists (including Gandhi).
The protection of Palestine's Jews was a side effect of this mission.
they definitly didnt do it for us. its a byproduct , a happy byproduct where otherwise the story of israel would have not existing even if the nazi still ended up losing ww2.
Evidence? Or are we just supposed to take your word, eg: re Gandhi, because you have a handle to make it sound like you're a doctor?
@@jillfryer6699 If you want an answer, use a less hostile tone. The information I refer to belongs to history and is freely available.
@@jillfryer6699 Gandhi: "Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs.... Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home." Mahatma Gandhi on Zionism and the Holocaust by Dusty Sklar, JewishCurrents, March 19, 2016
I was allways under the impression that all Gandhi wanted was independence from G Brittain thats all and achieve a non violent way of living with not eating meat of any kind and using a fibre for weaving which was and still is an Indian natural fibre which ordenary poor people of India to make their own clothes and also by doing so undermine brittish weaving industries which were flooding the markets in india and becoming increasingly Inexcessible for the poor and Gandhi also realised by doing or achieving that goal would weaken englands hold on India and thereby easier to finnally get the brttish or push the British out of India and undermining the Brittish elites and their control over India and he did that and it cost him his life So i wouldnt talk about Gandhi so flippantly if i were you especially the constant fasting that he undertook and being dragged into prison god knows how many times and not to forget that march to collect salt with many supporters and so much more that that Saint of India did only to be betrayed by an mentally disturbed man unfortunately to be shot and died but the whole of india mourned and revered him up to today maybe not as much but there are still temples where anybody can go to pray and honour Gandhi and still has a following of loyalty for him and none of us should forget Gandhi for the sacrifices he made for his country and his achievements no matter what your belief systems are its the human spirit that prevails ( and that’s something that the jewish people have embodied. And the arabs can’t stomach or stand no matter the history or right or wrong of things The strength that the jews possess is not only military but simply not giving up like what happened during the holocaust not just October 7 th thats why the Muslim arabs wont win period !!!!! Thankyou for your provocative reply 💟☸️☮️🕉️🌹⭐️🍀🌈🌈☔️☔️🇦🇺🇦🇺🦘🦘🌻🌸🥰🙏🙏🙏💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙
I’m a non-Jew progressive American and this is the lecture I’ve needed but never knew it. Not just because of your stories, but how it makes me look at my own. Thank you. ❤
So are you still an antisemite shouting from the river to sea and intifada intifada?
Recommend the article “alternative to genocide” by Chris Cutrone very interesting Marxist take that is quite critical of the protest movements. It’s quite interesting to learn from.
@@raquetdude just read it. It sounds like Project 2025. No thanks.
He is absolutely fascinating and brilliant. So important for all of us to listen and learn.
@@inka12877 yes
As a non-Jew, I sure appreciated this well-delivered and interesting lecture. Thank you.
I’m a Jew and I liked it too!
If an immigrant population violently takes over their hosts' land, are they still immigrants? Or are they colonists?
@@TakeAway-g8e oh like in the united states?
@@TakeAway-g8e Australia?
@@lebojay Same. As a Jew who moved to Israel 17 years ago, I didn't know much of this. Very educational.
Among Arabs and Palestinians there is a pervasive myth that almost all Israelis are dual citizens anyways, that they actually belong somewhere else and CAN go somewhere else. A Jordanian roommate in my dorm was complaining about Israel during a discussion and I asked her about her solution to the conflict. She plainly said that all Israeli Jews had to leave Palestine. She justified it by telling that almost all Israelis supposedly had dual citizenship anyways, so that it wouldn't actually be a big problem for them.
I think it encapsulates exactly what Rettig Gur enumerated and explained well.
And what is the current Bibi policy for Palestinians?
"What is the current Bibi policy for Palestinians?"
It Seems to be trying to give them tons of money, and a far better economy than any of the sorrounding Arab states in the belief that this will make them less interested in genocide....somehow.
Its a really stupid policy, and a total failure to understand the fundamnetal desires of the Palestinians, as shown in decades of surveys - kill all the Jews, taje all the land.
Its really dumb to believe that you can essentially buy off the Palestinians.
and today's reality shows: she's right, at least in parts. Look how they leave.
@@AnnettSchwarz-sheepos_negros They don't actually leave. Emigration rates are remarkably stable considering how battered the country has become.
Just 50.000 have left the country and 30.000 have made aliyah and come to Israel, so the number was remarkably stable.
Know your own religion, The jews were told not to return to Israel, but to scatter among the other nation......
*Abstract*
This lecture explores the Palestinian narrative of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, highlighting three recurring themes: betrayal by the Arab and Islamic world, the role of imperial patrons in supporting Israel, and the perception of Zionism as colonialism. The speaker argues that these themes, while not entirely accurate, are deeply ingrained in Palestinian history and understanding, shaping their strategies and hindering peace efforts. He concludes by proposing a "coercive nonviolent" approach inspired by Martin Luther King Jr., which acknowledges the validity of both sides' narratives and seeks a resolution based on mutual understanding and justice.
*Palestinian Interpretation of History*
* *0:41**:* The lecture aims to explain the Palestinian perspective on the conflict, emphasizing that their interpretation is not extremist, radical, or wrong, but based on their historical experiences.
* *1:22**:* Three recurring themes in the Palestinian narrative are introduced:
* Betrayal by the Arab and Islamic world
* The role of imperial patrons in supporting Israel
* The perception of Zionism as colonialism.
*Theme 1: Betrayal by the Arab and Islamic World*
* *25:40**:* Palestinians feel a sense of abandonment by the Arab and Islamic world, perceiving their weakness and inaction as a betrayal.
* *26:18**:* This sentiment stems from the Ottoman Empire's inability to prevent Jewish immigration and the subsequent failures of Arab nations to effectively support Palestinians in conflicts with Israel.
* *28:02**:* The speaker cites quotes from Ottoman leaders expressing concerns about the rising tide of Zionism and the potential threat it posed to the empire.
*Theme 2: Imperial Patrons*
* *1:07:16**:* Palestinians view Israel as consistently backed by powerful imperial patrons, initially the Russian Empire due to the influx of Russian Jewish immigrants.
* *1:07:42**:* This perception extends to the British Empire during the Mandate period, then to Germany in the 1920s with the arrival of German-speaking Jews, and eventually to the United States from the 1970s onwards.
* *1:11:37**:* The speaker discusses instances where Arab leaders attributed Israel's strength and survival to external support, such as Egypt's declaration of war in 1948 framed as a fight against "communist atheism."
*Theme 3: Zionism as Colonialism*
* *1:24:25**:* Palestinians perceive Zionism as a form of colonialism, drawing parallels with European imperial projects in other parts of the world.
* *1:25:05**:* The speaker cites a footnote from an Israeli geographer who argues that Zionism resembles colonialism in various aspects but with key differences, such as the lack of a "colonial mother country" and the historical connection of Jews to the land.
* *1:26:36**:* This perception of Zionism as colonialism fuels Palestinian resistance movements and shapes their strategies, including the BDS movement, which aims to isolate Israel on the international stage.
*Towards a Resolution*
* *1:31:59**:* The speaker critiques the "decolonization" rhetoric used by some activists, arguing that it misunderstands the nature of the conflict and reinforces the Palestinian misdiagnosis of Israel.
* *1:32:07**:* He proposes a solution inspired by Martin Luther King Jr.'s concept of "coercive nonviolence," which involves acknowledging the legitimacy of both sides' narratives and seeking a resolution based on mutual understanding and justice.
* *1:40:13**:* This approach requires a shift from a zero-sum mentality to recognizing the "tragic" nature of the conflict, where both sides have valid grievances and aspirations.
* *1:42:29**:* The speaker suggests that by understanding the Jewish experience and the historical context of Zionism, Palestinians can move beyond their current narrative and engage in more constructive dialogue towards a peaceful resolution.
i used gemini 1.5 pro to summarize the transcript
Token count
25,277 / 1,048,576
=
2 point 1- Islam mentio. More than once but he never said any quote of what Islam itself said about jewish because he can't fight it .
Or he do not want the student to look for it but mention leaders but why the leader or what is there teaching .
2- he put the poison in the drink and student and watcher drunk it without feeling it which is to prove without say it that jewis are the victim and only only only victim from England Germany arab . Every one solow it . Victim .
Pluse he destruct the main issue which is occupation by who support who finance who armed despite he said immigrated,rescued as refuge one time and have legality to home hand and put the problem on the victim
@@rashidjuma8076you perfectly show what the lecturer said about how the Palestinians saw the conflict as zero sum...
Which is actually not correct.
The Jews returns to their ancestor land. This is fact, you don't agree.
There is no stolen land. The land once belong to Ottomans, before that belong to other empires, after Ottoman, it was mandated to the British. It has never belong to the Palestinians. It is the fact. You don't agree.
Palestinians has lived there. So they have right as well. This is fact. You only agree to this one.
As long as you do not recognize that both the Jews and Arabs have rights to the land, then this is a zero sum conflict. The only solution is one of them completely cease to exist in the land. You know what? It will not be Israeli. Why? The Israelite will not leave the land before Damascus, Mecca, Cairo, Baghdad, Beirut and many other cities were also cease to exist. Why? They have nuclear weapon.
Is it what Arab leaders one?
If Israel have leader like Putin, they will finish the Palestinians in one week.
This is the reality.
You are free to reject the reality, but it will not change one. The reality is the reality. The Aborigines has effectively zero chance to remove Australia, so do the American Indians and the Palestinians.
That what happened if you want to view this as zero sum conflict.
If you see this as tragic conflict, and the Palestinians also do the same, then we can expect sometime in the future the solution.
@SamBourgeois-mr4hq Jews were Ottomans too.
There was no "Mohawk State", as there was no "Eskimo State". As far as I remember, there were also no "Celtic States" either. By your logic, not only the Americans, but also the English, the Dutch and the Germans should be expelled to Ukraine, because the owner of the land were Celtic people. If the Irish could enforce that, will the Russians and Ukrainians agree to give shelters to 300 millions Germanic people? Or 10 millions Turkemistani should accept 80 millions Turkish?
That's why you can not be weak.
You are so absurd.
Zionism is perceived as a racist settler colonising ideology cause it is a racist settler colonising ideology. Jabotinsky and Herzl explicitly state the plan is create a Jewish only state in Palestine and to expel the non Jewish Palestinians.
The problem isn't genetic differences or similarities. It's a religious rift. Plus islam forbids giving away lands they conquered. @SamBourgeois-mr4hq
Thank you for this analysis and explanation. I have been suffering so much pain from these events and I didn’t understand the depth of these emotions. It is complex. You have helped me so much! Blessings to you
This is a superior lecture. Everyone interested in this part of the world should listen to what Haviv has to say. His way of explaining the history of this region is the clearest I've heard. I'd be interested in knowing how much support he gets from other journalists re this POV. I'd also like to know where Haviv and Benny Morris agree and disagree.
Great breakdown of history and understanding. I did a ton of research the last 4 months, and this still managed to bring a few very new perspectives I hadn't taken into account or heard anyone mention yet! Thank you. We all need this.
No it isn’t it just propaganda
Great? Really? He literally spoke about literally everything except the problem: colonialism.
I’m sorry but I don’t share your enthusiasm for this lecture…
Arabs will latch onto any facts to promote their agenda
He spoke in lengthy about colonialism, you chose not to here because it doesn't suit your agenda. The whole lecture is about colonialism and its relationship to the establishment of the state of Israel @user-yz2pp9uu8f
@@smarinay I feel like he played a trick. A very convincing one at that. His thesis is that the Arabs are wrong (with good reason he concedes) to look at zionism as a colonial project. He frames zionism and Israels existence and founding a refugee problem. Folks fleeing persecution. He mentions that it can't be colonialism because the colonial backers seemed to change so much. British, Soviet, American. He tries to say oh since the Israelis aren't all from one country it can't be colonialism they don't serve a master. But if he was being truly honest with himself he would have tackled the elephant in the room which very few zionist want to do and that is to justify refugees colonizing (taking by force others land and making it their own country I D C what you want to call it) Taking land of other people and turning them into refugees.
Having said all that I still found it an interesting lecture. I just dont have that large of a blindspot to ignore what really happened on the ground to the average person. They got robbed. That's why they dont like you. It's that simple. All of these academics are jumping through hoops trying to find some way to justify and injustice.
This was awesome. I wish we had video of the previous discussions you have with the group earlier in the trip. Thank you for this. Shalom Shalom U'mevorach
This was outstanding. I knew a lot of the separate events but hadn’t seen them all in context happening sequentially. I really enjoyed that.👍
If you can, read Exodus by Leon Uris. He does a great job weaving all the historic facts into a novel.
On the 7th, it is crucial to understand that there were no direct attacks on civilians, only collateral damage. Out of the 1148 total names on haaret dataset, 473 military and 675 were civilians.
Ratio of civilians to military personnel killed on the 7th was 1 . 4 : 1 - lower than any of the iTf "mowing" operations, which has a ratio of 7 : 1
According to UN OCHA data from 2008 to 2022; The collateral damage on the 7th was significantly lower than any of the ITf "mowing" operations, which had a ratio of 7:1 with 1,023 military personnel out of 6,541 total.
On the 7th, with 473 military (418 were iTf military personnel, 55 belonged to the police) out of 1148 total, the ratio of civilians to military personnel was a mere 1.4:1
When including all casualties, not just deaths, the collateral damage ratio of the "mowing" operations is a staggering 162:1
From the 161,233 accumulated civilian casualties over only 14 years of "mowing" operations.
A 162 :1 ratio means that for every 162 civillians, 1 military personnel is a casualty. The 7th had a ratio of 1.4:1, more than a hundred times lower.
The 473 are - 55 soldiers, 13 privates, 59 corporals, 200 sergeants (45 of whom were sergeant majors), 48 commanders, 32 lieutenants, 5 lieutenant colonels, 6 colonels, 37 officers, 10 inspectors, 6 intendents, and 2 Lance Corp. This was a military defeat, and they are taking it out on the rest.
The reported ages of the victims are as follows:
0-4: 2 civilians
5-12: 8 civilians
13-17: 14 civilians
18-25: 132 civilians
26-40: 119 civilians
41-60: 55 civilians
61+: 40 civilians
Active duty military personnel:
18-25: 258 active duty military personnel
26-40: 60 active duty military personnel
41-60: 17 active duty military personnel
61+: 1 active duty military personnel
haaretz datasheet titled title: xsraxl's Dead: The Names of Those Killed in Hxmxs Attacks, Mxssxcres and the xsrxel-Hxmxs Wxr
There is a more detailed report of of oct 7th titled "I scrapped the information about 1096 of the 1460 killed on 7th of October Attack. Children Less than 1%"
-Yocheved Lifshitz account - 'they treated us well'
-Yasmin Porat account - 'i.T.f kxilled my husband'
Civilians were taken to have swaps for the civilians rotting in prisons without charge on the other side. An excess of ten thousands, all before the seventh
UN Human Rights Office (UN OCHA) PA Civilians 2008-2023:
2008 - 2,325 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,440.
2012 - 3,992 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 255.
2014 - 17,533 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,492.
2018 - 31,259 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 300.
2019 - 15,491 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 138.
2020 - 2,581 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 30.
2021 - 19,183 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 349.
2022 - 10,345 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 191.
2023 up to September - 8,508 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 227.
civilian deaths on the other side -
2008: 3 , 2012: 6 , 2014: 73 , 2018: 9
2019: 10 , 2020: 0 , 2021: 9 , 2022: 26
Total; 2008 up to September 2023 - 161,233 PA Civilian Casualties, 1,023 military personnel.
Wounded includes: amputees from the deliberate targeting of knees by snipers, white phosphorous third degree body burns, etc
The "Costs of War" study by brown in 2021 has these figures for the past 20 years of engagement of US policy: indirect deaths 4.5-4.7 million, direct 905-940,000 ; in other words 6 Million Deaths and 38 million displaced. This is relevant because of the Oded Yinon Plan.
They are following scripture, the word עוֹלֵל, ʿôlēl which means 'Babe, infant, little one, a suckling' occurs 21 King James Bible Verses Of these verses:
“Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” -Psalm 137:9
“Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”-1 Samuel 15:3
“Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.”-Jeremiah 6:11
“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”-Hosea 13:16
The other verses are not much different. Infact it is always in association with violence. Indeed these verses are the reason why in the Crusades the sense of pious rejoicing at massacre does not appear to be the product of later theologizing; it is also found, in the account of the eye-witness Raymond of Aguilers:
“in the Temple and porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies.” In fact, Raymond continues, “This day, I say, will be famous in all future ages, for it turned our labours and sorrows into joy and exultation; this day, I say, marks the justification of all Christianity, the humiliation of paganism, and the renewal of our faith.”
This is the polar opposite in the Quran in Surah Al-Tanwir, literally "The Englightenining" Surah, Aya 8-9, we have the death of a newborn is mentioned amongst the penultimate signs of the end of times, emphasizing the gravity of such an action. That child, now resurrected, is asked for what wrong doing was she murdered. This is to emphasize that she had done nothing wrong, for she had done nothing wrong and this is the day of retribution where those who omitted the evil are to be punished.
This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190, which exhorts to fight unbelievers and not be "Aggressors", in the commentary of what it means to be aggressors, this was stated Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah):
"includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit."
This is also the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated that Allah's Messenger said: "Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal, commit treachery, mutilate, or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship."
It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, "The Prophet forbade killing women and children."
بابتداء القتال أو بقتال من نهيتم عن قتاله من النساء والشيوخ والصبيان والذين بينكم وبينهم عهد أو بالمثلة أو بالمفاجأة من غير دعوة
"To kill those whom you were forbidden to from women, elderly, children and those whom betwixt you is a treaty or custom or by surprise or without cause"
-Tafsir Al-Zamakshari of the meaning of Aggressors in the Aya
More hadith from Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah:
حَدَّثَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ شَيْخٍ، مِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَوْلَى لِبَنِي عَبْدِ الْأَشْهَلِ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَ إِذَا بَعَثَ جُيُوشَهُ قَالَ: «§لَا تَقْتُلُوا أَصْحَابَ الصَّوَامِعِ»
"Do not kill the dwellers of monasteries"
حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ فُضَيْلٍ، عَنْ جُوَيْبِرٍ، عَنِ الضَّحَّاكِ قَالَ: كَانَ «§يُنْهَى عَنْ قَتْلِ الْمَرْأَةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ»
سَعْدٍ قَالَ: «§نَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَنْ قَتْلِ النِّسَاءِ وَالذُّرِّيَّةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ الَّذِي لَا حَرَاكَ بِهِ»
"The prophet forbids the killing of women, children, and the elderly"
This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Anfal Ayah 61 in which even oath breaking deniers/unbelievers are allowed to sue for peace states if the unbelievers they ask for peace, give it to them.
Stephen Langton, the writer of the Magna Carta (12th century, contemporary with the crusades for a reason) studied in the university of Paris which archives show had plenty of Arabic treatises in its procession, there can be no question about it being inspired by the "Sharia". both the renessiance and the european enlightenment were directly preceded by massive translation movements form Arabic (see the Republic of Letters by Alexander Bevilacqua, The House of Wisdom: How the Arabs Transformed Western Civilization By: Jonathan Lyons.
The modifiable testament testament commands indiscriminate killing, genocide, plunder, mutilation, enslavement, or torture of enemies, including women, on the other hand.Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190 limits war to those who fight against Muslims, prohibits transgression, and implies respect for human dignity and life Indeed it is what precedes the famous "sword verse", always cited out of context.
God did bring down the Qur’an, Mohamed is his Messenger.
@@mznxbcv12345 Quran 3:54, Allah, the best deceiver. So is Satan.
Thanks for posting the Verse, so others could see how deceitful that translation is, the verse says: "And the disbelievers made a plan ˹against Jesus˺, but Allah also planned-and Allah is the best of planners." Indeed we can see the handiwork of the al-shaytan (actual original form of the word from which satan is a mumble of, his actual name is Iblis and his handiwork is seen in that attempt using a mistranslation.
The Aramaic word for God is Alaha. It's the word Isa PBUH (Jesus as his name is often misspelled due to the lack of the ayin sound in Greek, which was rendered to Iesous, coupling the nearest sound to ayin, same letter found in 'Iraq', which sounds entirely different in Arabic form 'Iran' in Arabic, with the -ous Greek suffix that Greeks typically add to their names 'HerodotOS', 'PlotinUS', 'AchelOUS' and later mumbled into a J). Sounds familiar? Written without the confusing vowels, it is A-L-H ܐ ܠܗܐ (alap-lamed-he) as found in Targum or in Tanakh (Daniel, Ezra), Syriac Aramaic (Peshitta), adducted from the Arabic original of which Aramaic is a dialect continuum of A-L-L-H (Aleph-Lam-Lam-Ha). The Yeshua rendition is KNOWN to had been taken from greek. Western Syriac also use "Isho". Western Aramaic (separate from Syriac which is a dialect of Eastern Aramaic) use "Yeshu". Western Syriac has been separate from Western Aramaic for about 1000 years. And sounds don't even match up. Syriac is a Christian liturgical language yet the four letters of the name of Jesus «ܝܫܘܥ» [ = Judeo-Babylonian Aramaic: «ישוע» ] sounds totally different in West vs East Syriac, viz. vocalized akin to Christian Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic «ܝܶܫܽܘܥ» (Yēšūʿ) in West Syriac, but pronounced more akin to Muslim Arabic Quran character name Isa in East Syriac «ܝܑܼܫܘܿܥ» (ʾĪšōʿ).
The reason for this confusion is their dropping of phonemes as aforementioned. Only someone that has no idea what the letters are or how they sound would have a name ending in a pharyngeal fricative like the ayin, if it were to be used in a name it would have had to be in the beginning, thus the Arabic rendition is the correct one.
In addition, The word God in hebrew is eloah, is a cognate of the Arabic I-L-H, pronounced ilah not eloah. Hebrew dropped the glottal stop and mumbled it into eloh, aramic mumbled a little less and it became elah. Infact it is written A-L-H in Arabic, it is pronounced i in Arabic cause it is an Alef with hamza below (إ أ ) They are two different forms of Alef. And it mean "a god", it is the non definitive form of A-L-L-H, in which the Alef is without a glottal stop/hamza,(ا)
This kind of nuance is lost in the dialect continua. As a matter of fact, all of the knowledge needed for deciphering ancient texts and their complexity was derived from the Qur'an. It was by analyzing the syntactic structure of the Qur'an that the Arabic root system was developed. This system was first attested to in Kitab Al-Ayin, the first intralanguage dictionary of its kind, which preceded the Oxford English dictionary by 800 years. It was through this development that the concept of Arabic roots was established and later co-opted into the term 'semitic root,' allowing the decipherment of ancient scripts. In essence, they quite literally copied and pasted the entirety of the Arabic root. Hebrew had been dead, as well as all the other dialects of Arabic, until being 'revived' in a Frankensteinian fashion in the 18th and 19th centuries. The entire region spoke basically the same language, with mumbled dialect continuums spread about, and Arabic is the oldest form from which all these dialects branched off. As time passed, the language gradually became more degenerate, and then the Qur'an appeared with the oldest possible form of the language thousands of years later. This is why the Arabs of that time were challenged to produce 10 similar verses, and they couldn't. People think it's a miracle because they couldn't do it, but I think the miracle is the language itself. They had never spoken Arabic, nor has any other language before or since had this mathematical precision. And when I say mathematical, I quite literally mean mathematical.
"protosemetic" Alphabet (29), Arabic Alphabet (28), Latin transliteration, hebrew (22)
𐩠 𐩡 𐩢 𐩣 𐩤 𐩥 𐩦 𐩧 𐩨 𐩩 𐩪 𐩫 𐩬 𐩭 𐩮 𐩰 𐩱 𐩲 𐩳 𐩴 𐩵 𐩶 𐩷 𐩸 𐩹 𐩺 𐩻 𐩼
ا ب ت ث ج ح خ د ذ ر ز س ش ص ض ط ظ ع غ ف ق ك ل م ن ه و ي
A b t ṯ j h kh d ḏ r z s sh ṣ ḍ ṭ ẓ ʿ ġ f q k l m n h w y
א ב ג ד ה ו ז ח ט י כ ל מ נ ס ע פ צ ק ר ש ת
Merged phonemes in hebrew and aramaic:
ح, خ (h, kh) merged into only kh consonant remain
س, ش (s, sh) merged into only Shin consonant remaining
ط, ظ (ṭ/teth, ẓ) merged into only ṭ/teth consonant remaining
ص, ض (ṣ, ḍ/Tsad ) merged into only ḍ/Tsad consonant remaining
ع, غ (3'ayn, Ghayn) merged into a reducted ayin consonant remaining
ت, ث (t/taw, th) merged into only t/taw consonant remaining
The reason why the protoS alphabet here is 28 and not 29, is because the supposed extra letter is simply a س written in a different position, but it was shoehorned to obfuscated. In Arabic letter shapes are different depending on whether they are in the beginning , middle or end of a word.
"Semitic" is just mumbled Arabic, really. Imagine English with a third of its letters removed and simplified grammar. That's Aramaic, Hebrew, etc. For example, combine T and D into just T; there's no need to have 2 letters. The same goes for i, e, y - they should all be just y from now on, etc., etc. Arabic is the only corollary to proto-Semitic. In fact, the whole classification of Semitic languages is nonsensical for anyone with a somewhat functioning brain. Hebrew, Aramaic, and the rest of these made-up dialect continua only have 22 letters out of the 29 proto-Semitic letters. Arabic has all 29. The difference between Arabic and the other creoles and Pidgin is the same as the difference between Latin and pig Latin or Italian. "Phoenician" is an Arabic dialect continuum, and not only that, it is pidgin. It is simplified to the point of stupidity. Anyone with a basic knowledge of Arabic would see this clearly. What happened was that Arabic handicapped "scholars" saw the equivalent of Scottish Twitter spelling, with added mumbling due to phonemic mergers (22 letters, not 29), and mistakenly thought they were seeing a different language."
Now how is it that the Qur'an came thousands of years later in an alphabet that had never been recorded before, and in the highest form the language had ever taken? The creator is neither bound by time nor space, therefore the names are uttered as they truly were, in a language that is lexically, syntactically, phonemically, and semantically older than the oldest recorded writing. In fact, that writing appears to have been a simplified version of it. Not only that, but it would be the equivalent of the greatest works of any particular language all appearing in one book, in a perfect script and in the highest form the language could ever take. It is so high in fact, that it had yet to be surpassed despite the fact that over the last millennium the collection of Arabic manuscripts when compared on word-per-word basis in Western Museums alone, when they are compared with the collected Greek and Latin manuscripts combined, the latter does not constitute 1 percent of the former as per German professor Frank Griffel, in addition all in a script that had never been recorded before. Thus, the enlightenment of mankind from barbarism and savagery began, and the age of reason and rationality was born from its study.
God did bring down the Qur'an and Mohamed is his messenger
This guy makes me want to go back to college.
You know this guy might not be able to speak at those Ivy-Leagues any more.
@@mdarrenu Stanford, UCLA, and many other universities are not Ivy League.
UTube
@@fractalmadness9253
"UTube College"...😅
to argue with the professors? that would and could be the only reason, you won't learn anything from 80% of the teachers
Very interesting and revealing talk on a glossed over period of Israeli history. The rotating incidence of Imperialism in the laborious development of Israel is deeper than I imagined. The fall of the Ottaman Empire and the failure of leadership in the Palistne District in it's vacuum gave the Jewish people opportunity after opportunity to succeed. This lecture really brings home the reason why all the victimhood mentality prevalent today exists. Excellent historical review!
It gave way to Jewish supremacy and succession so that what, mass murder and human rights abuses of Palestinians could occur?
So Jews went through Hell during the holocaust, and think giving Hell to Palestinians and Arabs is fair game now ?
And you wonder why there is hatered of Israel. It isn't antisemitism, it's because of the heartless arrogance and thirst for blood you hold
Why is it called "why does Hamas side with the Nazis" for that timestamp when it's about Haj Amin who predates Hamas' existence by about 50+ years?
becaus Hamas, even though formally born in the 80's, is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhhod which was founded in the 30s by Al Amin. Its ideology models itself over nazism and islamic superiority
@@llla8125Amin didn’t found the MB. Hassan Al Banna did.
@@llla8125 It's the continuing story of Islam murdering Jewish and Christian "infidels" which goes back to the AD 600's, and has never truly ended.
@@llla8125 that is so reductive you clearly missed the point
Is this about Mufti and Hitler bonding over their hate for jews?
The wounded pride, the admitted weakness, the humiliation of loosing to the “poor refugees”, sadly, is not just a Palestinian story. It’s the source of the world’s oldest hatred.
Amazing lecture. Thank you.
...don't forget the betrayal. That the only people who opened their doors to those refugees had to lose everything to them. Those poor refugees who were chucked out Europe for a reason, refused entry into the US for a reason and yet you are the only ones in the world who embraced them. It is indeed your fault that you did not foresee that they would one day turn against you and call you 'human animals." It is indeed, the source of the world’s oldest hatred.
I think that self congratulatory tone is premature. Israeli and Jewish breast beating, and self glorification will not stand the test of time. It never does no matter what your ethnicity, or country of origin or clan or nation.
Only they didn’t lose to poor refugees. They lost to well armed, well funded refugees, and they themselves were largely untrained peasants who were outnumbered 2:1. Hardly an underdog story
There is another point too not to discount. Beith Al Magdis is the first Qibla of the Islamic faith, its a holy site for the Muslims. Besides to be Muslim, you have to believe in all OT and NT Prophets. So Ibrahim, Jacob, Isac, Ishmael, David, Solomon, Jesus PBU all of them are their prophets as well and the land is holy to them.
@@TonyGModesto so you have admitted to terrorising Palestinians and land grabbing
The IDF is heavily funded by USA, it would not stand up without them
brilliant lecture!! applause by a christian french. (What i found also amusing is that i was saying to myself that Mr Haviv Rettig is teaching the way a Rabbi do in yeshivah school, by constantly interrogating his audience, and then he revealed at the end of his lecture he is father is a rabbi! )
Also called Socratic method (lecturing by asking questions).
didn't mean to watch almost two hour long lecture rn but omg was that interesting
good teacher, very engaging - has shown how strong, solid, purposive, and morally clear the Jews were, and still are.
“Our right to defend ourselves from extermination does not give us the right to oppress others. Occupation leads to foreign rule. Foreign rule leads to resistance. Resistance leads to repression. Repression leads to terror and counter-terror. The victims of terror are mostly innocent people. Holding on to the occupied territories will turn us into a nation of murderers and murder victims. We must leave the occupied territories immediately.”
-Shimon Tzabarr
Didn't the Israilis leave in 2005?
@@marksutton5817 No. They control everything in and out of Gaza, prevent Gaza from having a seaport or an Airport. They regularly kill Gazans (prior to 10/7). Also they occupy the West Bank and apparently are holding auctions for West Bank land around the world, selling property that literally doesn't belong to them.
@@marksutton5817 No. If you mean Gaza, they maintained total control of food, water, power, and the borders of Gaza, choosing who can come in and out, choosing if the Gazans can eat, choosing if the gazans can vote. Etc. They removed settlers from Gaza, but they did not remove the Israeli presence. Not at all. They turned it into an open air prison.
@@philipripper1522 What were the reasons for embargos? Did Hamas come to power peacefully? Did the government of Gaza behave as a terrorist entity? Does it continue to place itself before the survival of its own people? In short: were the measures that Israel took in Gaza irrational?
@@philipripper1522 The arabs have ZERO RIGHTS to enter Israel. Egypt could let them into Egypt, but the arabs also have ZERO RIGHTS to enter Egypt. If they feel confined to their claimed strip of land, it's because they don't want to make peace and friends with their neighbors. The arabs have a lot of demands that they have ZERO RIGHTS to demand and then think they have a right to go to war with Israel because their demands aren't met (but not Egypt, no in Egypt they just build tunnels to undermine the border with Egypt since the Sinai is a sparsely populated desert).
There was NO BLOCKADE of gaza in 2005, no blockade of gaza in 2006, the blockade on gaza was a direct result of the population of gaza ELECTING A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION TO BE THEIR GOVERNMENT.
Every restriction that was added to arabs attempting to pass into Israel was also a direct result of ARAB AGGRESSIONS AND TERRORISM sanctioned, orchestrated, and executed by their elected government.
The arabs have a long history of denying reality because then they do not have to admit the shame that it is their OWN ACTIONS that have put them where they are.
Arabs were the FIRST to draw blood by attacking the jews with their suicide campaigns in 1919. Only after so many suicide campaigns and revolts from the arabs against the jews did the jews begin to form "militias" to protect themselves from the arabs.
The arabs do not want to face the reality that the jews are NOT COLONIZERS, they are a diaspora come home! The arabs do not want to allow a jewish state to exist because they have been ingrained with arab supremacy for centuries. They feel they have the right to self-determination, but damn any minority that think they have the right to self-determination. When the arabs get their own state, they ethnically cleanse their state of minorities - but you don't want to face that reality. The arabs do not want to face the reality that the FIRST CAUSE OF THE NAKBA was ARAB LEADERS LYING TO ARAB VILLAGERS so they would flee BEFORE the jews arrived. Arab leaders PROMISED VICTORY over the jews and they failed. The arabs do not want to face that THE LAST CAUSE OF THE NAKBA was the ARAB LEADERS LYING TO ARAB VILLAGERS to not trust the jews who had originally allowed them to return to the villages they fled, the Arab leaders promised once again they would destroy the jews and only then could the arabs return to their villages. 150,000 arabs stayed in their homes because they didn't believe the arab leaders, they are Israeli citizens and they disprove every call of "apartheid" because the stateless arabs can not face the reality they there is NO APARTHEID, they are subject to STRICT BORDER CONTROL because of every aggression and terrorism they have caused, they refuse Israeli citizenship at every chance - without citizenship they have ZERO RIGHTS to enter Israel except what Israel deigns to allow.
For a century the arabs have chosen violence and terrorism, and for a century they have failed and their own actions have made their own situation worse. But the arabs can't choose peace, because to choose peace is to face a century of shame they have refused to admit even exists (much like how they refuse to accept that LGBTQ+ people even exist).
This is my missing link to understanding this conflict.I have goose bumps.
So powerful.
Your students are lucky to have such a cogent and profound teacher.
I truly did enjoy the debate. It was thought provoking and allowed my to readdress many questions I had already answered in my mind. But it does leave one point which I cannot accept. Coming as beggars to your own land is not the way we should see this origin. As a people who as refugees came because they had nowhere else to go, in a sense. I am not Jewish and find this mindset disturbing but understandable for a people that have essentially been almost 2000 years without their homeland. As a Portuguese citizen, I was introduced early on to the historical concept of the legitimacy of reconquering our land with out apology after it was taken away from us by invasion. The Iberian Peninsula was once called Al-Andalus after it was invaded and conquered by Islam in the 8th century. It took literally 800 years to get it back. Hundreds of thousands of lives were lost in doing so. Generations went by and in the meantime, the invaders stopped being invaders and said it was their land too. To achieve this restoration, sometimes hard choices need to be made but it is the only way to get to the other side.
I think the Jews should accept it was the Islamic / Ottoman empire that helped the Jewry to flourish both in Spain , Bagdhad and the Middle East. It was the only place safe for them. We there were rivarly and fighting from time to time, but mostly the Islamic Nations were where they actually could 'practise their religion.
@Amrishpoori The real history tells us otherwise. Yes they did flourish there but culling was a way of life. There are countless genocides done by the muslims to the jews all over the land they controlled. Every time the jews were thought to be too uppity, one would occur to put them in their place. No different from Europe.
That is an interesting piece of history. I had no idea! Thank you. And that is a valid point.
Our whole existence as humans is one of disturbance and wars, but I feel the Jewish story of eviction and resettlement is one of a kind.
@@Amrishpoori Er um, largely at peace -- fighting from time to time -- is not peace
@@ac1646 You even fight with your family members from time to time... Sometimes with people you run into in the streets. Things happen. My point is whatever happened, before 1900 its just himan nature...After 1900 its different . Its got nothing rrlated to as the accusation goes, Muslims hate Jews, just because they are Jews and that they want ki## all of them. And its got nothing to do, about thr things the Quran mentioned of the rebellious nature of the eaely Israelites who "became" Jews. Quran is full of Stories of punishments for many previous narions. And you know what the Quran calls the people who played around with their words to mislead people? People who rejected Gods favour on them became arrogant? I will give you a hint... It wasnt the name Jews, they were called Unbelievers, people of fire... and many other names.
Excellent lecture. These students will remember this for the rest of their lives.
Is this true or false?
@@IshaqIbrahim3true
@@IshaqIbrahim3I'm Jewish and I say these guys speak falsehood. There is nothing Jjewish about this so called Jewish state.
@@IshaqIbrahim3True
Lets Hope So Eh !
One of the best and the most sober lecture on the topic with a great sense of humour. Thank you.
Yes its a laugh a minute.
Excellant ! As a seventy year old Brit who has read the History of the area since seeing Lawrence of Arabia in 1964 and heard so much 'mince' talked over the last few years, (one Arab kid even alluded to everything being hunky dory before 1948,had'nt heard of The Ottomans or The Brits. The Ottomans were only there for a few hundred years) I had almost given up. A Real Historian !
@@philiprufus4427 Yep. I read a lot of the pro- Hamas types saying things like that online.
It was all so wonderful for everyone before Israel happened...
I guess I could say - "Yes, it was wonderful, that's one reason many Arabs were selling land to the Jews."
😅
@@jillfryer6699 And sarcasm saves the day!
😁
@@philiprufus4427alittle correction friend the ottomans protected Middle East from 1517+1917
Cheers 👍
I love this lecture! And I love the fact that he has a powerful narrative and interactive style, provocative dialogue with the students, and he is so passionate about the subject, and he uses minimal visuals🙌🙌🙌
No. It is too loud and the rhetorical questions he asks loudly is more fear-inducing than engaging or thought provoking. Give the answer. Let the children/students learn from your deductions and make their own separately during test time.
All rubish....all propaganda antijudia. Catar and jamás pay for all that.
a liar
Please consider adding chapters/timecodes for ease of reference. Just add the following text anywhere in the description and the timestamp for each section of the talk:
Timecodes
00:00 - Intro
4:35 - 1881 The beginning of Jewish 20th century
etc...
This is free. How bout you do the time codes for ease of reference?. ;)
@drfelixcjchivandire9550 even of it's free. It is great recommendation that would benefit all watchers and listeners. It neitherr difficult nor new. Let's not be afraid of giving suggestions .
least useful time stamps ever
I can't hear a word of the questions that the students are asking. Please re-post with subtitles for the students' questions. That will improve it greatly.
I would love to take this professor’s class!! What a fabulous lecture on the topic.❤❤
Incredible lecture!
The best explanation on the web.
Outstanding. It really puts a great perspective of the whole issue.
Thank you, for uploading this. Very informative, perspectives rarely heard.
Congratulations !! Amazing historical timeline and comments..
I agree with you that early Jews came to Palestine as refugees. However, that fact doesn't diminish the ultimate goal of "state building." Imagine Syrian refugees in Canada participating in a project to establish a Syrian state within Canada, or even attempting to take over the entire country. In such a scenario, the refugee narrative might not carry much weight in people's minds.
What you've mentioned doesn't alter the reality that Palestinians were displaced from their lands, whether through coercion or other means, just as Jews residing in Arab-speaking countries faced similar challenges. I personally believe that nationalistic endeavors should be understood within their specific historical contexts, particularly in Western Europe before and during early modernity. These efforts have often failed to establish cohesive and functional nations elsewhere in the world.
I think I would strongly support Israel if it transitioned towards a multicultural, non-nationalistic identity (in other words, not solely a Jewish state or engineering the demographics to achieve so). Now, regarding colonization and imperialism, it's irrelevant who the patron is if the outcome is a society that restricts immigration based on ethnicity and excludes certain ethnic groups from military service. That's not a favorable scenario.
Having said that, Jews have every right to live in Israel/Palestine, as long as the country upholds the human rights of its indigenous population, whether that population is Jewish or Arab.
Syrians in Canada not analogous to Jews in Israel…. more like French Canadians going back to France and reclaiming their lost lands, if Canada persecutes them. something like that.
Unfortunately, democracy is not how the middle east operates, so a democratic arab-jewish-whatever country would soon degrade into chaos.
Europe gets a taste of that now.
I don't see why it's a problem to have a Jewish State that gives equal rights to all its citizens. What's the problem with nation states, you'll find plenty of them in the liberal democracies of Western Europe?
@@magicthegatheringlover4277 it's the middle east, totally different mentality
@@pashokresn I raise you the Persian Nation State and the Turkish Nation State. And even if you don't think it's ideal for the region, you do not need to be against the idea of a Jewish State there in principle, which is what I was reacting to.
Thank you for sharing this video. So many things I did not know or just didn't put together for perspective.
Great teacher
"great teacher" ?! Rather a stupid idiot...
I am 25 minutes into this and red to stop to think about this. I know about the events but have mot connected it this way. Many thanks!
Seeing all of these hate comments I am fully convinced the vast majority either did not listen to the lecture or clearly did not take the time to fully grasp and understand it
"Mostly civilians" - Incorrect
On the 7th, it is crucial to understand that there were no direct attacks on civilians, only collateral damage. Out of the 1148 total names on haaret dataset, 473 military and 675 were civilians.
Ratio of civilians to military personnel killed on the 7th was 1 . 4 : 1 - lower than any of the iTf "mowing" operations, which has a ratio of 7 : 1
According to UN OCHA data from 2008 to 2022; The collateral damage on the 7th was significantly lower than any of the ITf "mowing" operations, which had a ratio of 7:1 with 1,023 military personnel out of 6,541 total.
On the 7th, with 473 military (418 were iTf military personnel, 55 belonged to the police) out of 1148 total, the ratio of civilians to military personnel was a mere 1.4:1
When including all casualties, not just deaths, the collateral damage ratio of the "mowing" operations is a staggering 162:1
From the 161,233 accumulated civilian casualties over only 14 years of "mowing" operations.
A 162 :1 ratio means that for every 162 civillians, 1 military personnel is a casualty. The 7th had a ratio of 1.4:1, more than a hundred times lower.
The 473 are - 55 soldiers, 13 privates, 59 corporals, 200 sergeants (45 of whom were sergeant majors), 48 commanders, 32 lieutenants, 5 lieutenant colonels, 6 colonels, 37 officers, 10 inspectors, 6 intendents, and 2 Lance Corp. This was a military defeat, and they are taking it out on the rest.
The reported ages of the victims are as follows:
0-4: 2 civilians
5-12: 8 civilians
13-17: 14 civilians
18-25: 132 civilians
26-40: 119 civilians
41-60: 55 civilians
61+: 40 civilians
Active duty military personnel:
18-25: 258 active duty military personnel
26-40: 60 active duty military personnel
41-60: 17 active duty military personnel
61+: 1 active duty military personnel
They are following scripture, the word עוֹלֵל, ʿôlēl which means 'Babe, infant, little one, a suckling' occurs 21 King James Bible Verses Of these verses:
“Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” -Psalm 137:9
“Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”-1 Samuel 15:3
“Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.”
-Jeremiah 6:11
“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”
-Hosea 13:16
The other verses are not much different. Infact it is always in association with violence. Indeed these verses are the reason why in the Crusades the sense of pious rejoicing at massacre does not appear to be the product of later theologizing; it is also found, in the account of the eye-witness Raymond of Aguilers:
“in the Temple and porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies.” In fact, Raymond continues, “This day, I say, will be famous in all future ages, for it turned our labours and sorrows into joy and exultation; this day, I say, marks the justification of all Christianity, the humiliation of paganism, and the renewal of our faith.”
Another account by a chronicler and eyewitness-priest, Albert of Aachen, describes the killing of fleeing women, and depicts crusaders as:: “seizing [infants who were still suckling] by the soles of their feet from their mothers’ laps or their cradles…and dashing them against the walls or lintels of the doors and breaking their necks […] they were sparing absolutely no gentile of any age or kind.”The incoherence inherent in a stranger to Abraham calling the children of Abraham gentiles notwithstanding, this account evokes the very same Psalm 137:9 imprecation against Babylon, in Latin, “beatus qui tenebit et adlidet parvulos tuos ad petram.”
This is the polar opposite in the Quran in Surah Al-Tanwir, literally "The Englightenining" Surah, Aya 8-9, we have the death of a newborn is mentioned amongst the penultimate signs of the end of times, emphasizing the gravity of such an action. That child, now resurrected, is asked for what wrong doing was she murdered. This is to emphasize that she had done nothing wrong, for she had done nothing wrong and this is the day of retribution where those who omitted the evil are to be punished.
This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190, which exhorts to fight unbelievers and not be "Aggressors", in the commentary of what it means to be aggressors, this was stated Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah):
"includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit."
This is also the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated that Allah's Messenger said: "Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal, commit treachery, mutilate, or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship."
It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, "The Prophet forbade killing women and children."
بابتداء القتال أو بقتال من نهيتم عن قتاله من النساء والشيوخ والصبيان والذين بينكم وبينهم عهد أو بالمثلة أو بالمفاجأة من غير دعوة
"To kill those whom you were forbidden to from women, elderly, children and those whom betwixt you is a treaty or custom or by surprise or without cause"
-Tafsir Al-Zamakshari of the meaning of Aggressors in the Aya
More hadith from Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah:
حَدَّثَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ شَيْخٍ، مِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَوْلَى لِبَنِي عَبْدِ الْأَشْهَلِ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَ إِذَا بَعَثَ جُيُوشَهُ قَالَ: «§لَا تَقْتُلُوا أَصْحَابَ الصَّوَامِعِ»
"Do not kill the dwellers of monasteries"
حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ فُضَيْلٍ، عَنْ جُوَيْبِرٍ، عَنِ الضَّحَّاكِ قَالَ: كَانَ «§يُنْهَى عَنْ قَتْلِ الْمَرْأَةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ»
سَعْدٍ قَالَ: «§نَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَنْ قَتْلِ النِّسَاءِ وَالذُّرِّيَّةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ الَّذِي لَا حَرَاكَ بِهِ»
"The prophet forbids the killing of women, children, and the elderly"
This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Anfal Ayah 61 in which even oath breaking deniers/unbelievers are allowed to sue for peace states if the unbelievers they ask for peace, give it to them.
The modifiable testament testament commands indiscriminate killing, genocide, plunder, mutilation, enslavement, or torture of enemies, including women, on the other hand.Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190 limits war to those who fight against Muslims, prohibits transgression, and implies respect for human dignity and life Indeed it is what precedes the famous "sword verse", always cited out of context.
God did bring down the Qur’an, Mohamed is his Messenger.
I fully get this, and thats why I push this pov: Israel is the Frankenstein creation of brit, usa, 3rd reich and upperclass secular politically extremist german jews who colluded to get 60K jews installed in Arab-dominated Palestine where brit mercenaries taught those jews how to expel and terrorize Arabs with a tactic infamously documented as Rise and Kill First.
Here's what Israel's founding father said of Israel's core mission to push Palestinians out: “The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war.” David Ben-Gurion, founder of Israel
Amer Police get trained with IDF
-How Israel Trains U.S. Police ua-cam.com/video/eOj_6-x6oNg/v-deo.html
-How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control. Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests. www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
-usa police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks
-US and Israeli Police Share Violent and Repressive Tactics
The exchange programs have been devastating for both communities of color in the US and Palestinians. truthout.org/articles/us-and-israeli-police-are-sharing-violent-and-repressive-tactics
Israeli Growing Opposition to Their Genocide
-Documentary on 1sraelis disillusioned by Zionist Abuses. Israelism kinema.com/films/israelism-jvor8l
-Majority of Israelis mistrust Gaza resettlement plans thecradle.co/articles-id/24524
Waves of Senior Israel Army Officers Resign www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240304-israel-sees-wave-of-senior-israeli-army-officers-resign/
--Israeli Hostage Reveals Hamas Guards Protected Captive Iraelis from Bombs with Their Bodies www.palestinechronicle.com/our-guards-in-gaza-protected-us-from-bombing-with-their-bodies-freed-israeli-captive
-Over 50 1sraeli S0ldiers Come Forward to Expose their Truths
ua-cam.com/video/tirugvJc_ag/v-deo.html
-Israeli General Admits to How Occupation is Destroying Israel ua-cam.com/video/Jo4nBPigZx4/v-deo.html
-How Israeli Soldiers are Dehumanized to Commit Terror ua-cam.com/video/_YCQV_iUGRE/v-deo.html
- Israeli Amits Objective is to Exterminate all Palestinians ua-cam.com/video/yMY4ZaoflNc/v-deo.html
-Amer Israelis have rights but Amer Palis and other nationalities have none ua-cam.com/users/shorts8p_MYB9l_LE
-Israeli Teens Choose Jail and Death Threats Over Military Service ua-cam.com/users/shortseVnNtCUxoPs
- Israeli Perspective Of Netanyahu’s Support of Hamas That’s Blown Up In Our Faces. www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces
-David Ben-Gurion admits zionism 1) is secular and 2) was opposed by religious jews: ua-cam.com/video/XkzAuU2NG-Q/v-deo.html and www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-04-24/ty-article-opinion/.premium/secular-zionist-david-ben-gurion-the-messianic-jew/00000187-afa8-d3b7-abcf-bfecf1a80000
-Rabbi Exposes how Zionism is anti Jewish ua-cam.com/users/shortsuOvP3J3QBtU
-Israeli Explains Israel’s Three Legal Levels of Discrimination facebook.com/reel/883947676410782
-Israeli Vets Describe the Horrific Crimes they Committed
ua-cam.com/video/XjTxDYtNhno/v-deo.html
-Israeli Women Soldiers Give Shocking Testimonies About Their Army Experiences ua-cam.com/video/jI6rTimkfJE/v-deo.html
Former Israeli Soldier Exposes IDF War Crimes ua-cam.com/video/xRyBaPkdJ_c/v-deo.html
- This Is How AWFUL Israeli Settlers Really Are ua-cam.com/video/nx1o2MTEwWg/v-deo.html
- Traumatized IDF Soldier audio facebook.com/reel/6810986008992544?mibextid=LwY44L
++++
@@mznxbcv12345I do believe it is a proven fact that women and children were raped by Hamas on October 7th. That doesn’t sound like a military operation. Along with that, Israel, like South Korea, has mandatory military service for natives, meaning every Jew born in Israel will have a military rank, even if not in service. All you have done is organize civilians killed by their military rank and age.
Does anyone know if there is some sort of Palestinian equivalent to this and the other Haviv lecture? A Palestinian stating their take on the Israeli-Jewish story. This lecture has been very impactful and important for me and it would be great to see more from different points of view.
Yes. There are various interviews of the Palestinian American intellectual Rashid Khalidi, who certainly is opposed to liberal Zionist Israelis like Mr. Rettig Gur, but who says many things in common. He wrote a landmark book called "The Hundred Years War on Palestine" that Mr. Rettig Gur quotes from in this lecture.
@@davidmagrass6728 Thank you!
I absolutely love this lecture, thank you so much for sharing this. I wish all schools could show this lecture as it's so important and incredibly well presented.
(clipped from Naomi Klein's book). Hitler claimed it was now Germany’s turn to engage in cleansings and mass relocations on its own frontier.
“There is only one task: To set about the Germanization of the land by bringing in Germans and to regard the indigenous inhabitants as Indians,” Hitler said in 1941.
Europe history is full of ethnic cleansing and that's why there's peace in that continent.
You quote that nut
Thank you. I thoroughly enjoyed this lecture and the one on the Israelis. They are both very informative and fascinating even for a non-Jew, who was impacted by the holocaust from reading Anne Frank as a child, later visiting her home in Amsterdam, and further enriched by Schindler’s List. Israel has the right to exist and every right to defend her existence.
This was profound and brought an amazing insight to what is happening and more importantly how it might end.
Great talk seeing various perspectives. I wish the Palestinians could do that too.
He says at about 46 minutes to 47 minutes Palestinians are certainly not Jews. However, he should be clear that up until 1948, Jews who lived in this land were known internationally and by the British as Palestinian Jews. This has a significance regarding the weakness of the name used to define a people. If the definition of the connected name is weak regarding the entity of Arabs who are at odds with Jews then the argument defining this separate Arab entity is weak along with the argument that these Arabs are separate people from Syrians and Jordanians and some of those in Lebanon or Egypt. Therefore this is not a separate ethnicity to those who already have large swathes of resource rich Arab ethnostate lands.
Very interesting and informative.
It would have been much more valuable if he repeated the audience's questions or they had a microphone. I feel like I'm hearing one side of a conversation.
Turn the volume up 🤷🏻♀️ there is not sides in this discourse
@@novacancy7253there is a maximum we can boost our volume. It should be habitual on the part of all public speakers to repeat the question and then answer it.
@@novacancy7253 what if it goes no louder
You’re listening to a lecture, not a conversation…
@@cowmath77 yes, indeed. Everyone who talks to an audience while on camera should remember to repeat the question and then answer it. Even if the acoustics are such that everyone in the room can *probably* hear the question (and there might be some with moderate hearing impairments who cannot), the mic in the camera does not necessarily pick up the question. That results in the speaker seeming to make random remarks that have no context. At a monthly meeting that I attend that is also live streamed, our officer who introduces the speaker says, “For the sake of the live stream, please repeat the question before answering it.” I, sitting in the room, with hearing aids, also appreciate it.
12:33: "Because we have a lot of nations, we're done with nations" . It's funny how Haviv inadvertently does a perfect Trump impersonation while saying that line; he even does the classic Trump hand gestures, too.
great catch! lol
And he's full of crap and lies, just like Trump !
Thanks, this is a good comparative analysis of the mindsets and histories of both the Jews and Palestinian peoples. Growing up in Malaysia, I understand why many Malay Muslims identify with the Palestinians as both fellow Muslims and victims of colonialism. In NZ where I now live, Palestinian activists have networked with the left and Maori rights activists by framing Israel-Palestine as a colonial conflict.
The way the British treated the Maori is similar to tte way The Palestinians have been treated since Zionism started.
And you'd be mistaken if you think it is not. From what I have understood from this lecture, it is both a colonial AND a refugee conflict. It depends on who is powering the conflict and for what purposes. The end result is almost always more dead Arabs than Israelis.
@@ggk9828in a war the number of dead is not a indicator on who was just or right.
@@gategi10not at all.
@@ggk9828a
I am a British non jew . I am ashamed to admit our colonial past and how we were reponsibñe for so much of the nationañism gone wrong. We also talked of the Jewish problem . This is amazing hisrory if onñy many would listen to the history.
You shouldn't be ashamed of the past - it is just that. The past has many horrors and every people on the planet has participated in the horror. The strongest have always subdued the weakest. Always. Those who grew powerful through new technology obviously carried on as normal and conquered as many countries as possiblie. That has happened throughout history. Slavery also followed the same story. Did you know Dublin was not a rich city before it began to sell English slaves? The great thing is that in the modern age, for a million reasons, that process has slowed down somewhat and people are resisting the powerful elites' surge for empire building in the west. Because of public opinion, the Vietnam war was stopped, troops were withdrawn from Afganistan and the western power-brokers are now unable to invade other countries because the public is sick of it. There is no way, for example, that the US and UK would dare to invade Iraq now. They probably wouldn't be able to rely on the public concensus to intervene in Kuwait either. I hope the public remain sick of the violence now they can see it on the various screens. And that is the truth of the matter - at the moment, we are privileged enough to see what our armies are doing abroad. It was never like that in the past. The public were only told what they were allowed to know. Even in Gaza now, as horrific as it is, I believe it would be much worse without the weight of public opinion against an even more powerful response by Israel. Whatever anyone thinks, the IDF are being more careful now because the world is sick of the violence. Sorry for the rant. Btw, I also think that 'Free Palistine' protests are just another way of saying kill all the Jews. If people want peace, then march for peace - not for one side in a conflict. That one-sided support is just an attack on the otherside and resolves nothing. March for peace and reach out to both sides. It takes two to tango and God is not going to protect anyone. He/She/It never has.
@@marksutton5817 if you seriously think free palestine protests is about killing jews then you are utterly brainwashed by hasbara propaganda. Jews march too you know. Majority of Brits marching dont want to see civilian infrastructure levelled, families lives torn apart, mass bombing and murder
To make it about "killing jews" is dishonest, intellectually corrupt and arrogant of you
This lecturer was the first person I listened to who knew how terror organisations work and how they try to achieve their goals. And he did it with the example of martin luther king which to me was unexpected and new knowledge. That point was the hight of this lecture and I understand now why it has so much views. Many more Jews and Israelis need to listen to this lecture.
Good news everyone! MLK fixed racism! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🙄🤦
Many more students protesting on US campuses need to watch this.
Just to be clear, he was NOT saying that MLK uses the same strategy of terror organizations. He’s saying that the path to Palestine peace would be to abandon terror attacks and use MLK’s strategy.
@@GotWoodChuck
Maybe. But he revealed more than that. What he said about MLK is a very similar principle of a terror organization way of achieving it's goals.
Quote: "And by the way, King was not polite, King was not gentle, there is a profoundly coercive, non violent palestinian strategy. . .how long before israeli left is back?"
Terror is a coercive strategy. You attack with such a way that forces your enemy to respond against a civilian population. Then you wait for the Internal and International pressure to make the situation "unpleasant, untenable, and therefore had to change”. In MLK's case or Gandi, the tactic means creating provocations that elicit violent response against a civilian population. In terror groups case, to hurt the enemy's prestige, or cause so much damage, he must react in a harsh way against a civilian population.
That is the principle that was used in Algeria against the french, and in Cyprus against the British. And by the Etzel as well. Sometimes it works, especially against foreign colonial powers in an age of democratic mass media, and slow fall of old empires. Sometimes, it doesn't work.
Arab pallies and their Arab backers (now Iran), have used this. And especially in the first and second "Intifada". And in every round in Gaza. Look at palywood. look at the the fake numbers. look at cameras waiting in front of children to try and elicit a reaction from a soldier being taunted. That is the winning core of their narrative - Being a Victim. And using the violence of the other side to advance it.
@@compovi8461 ""such a way that forces your enemy to respond against a civilian population.....he must react in a harsh way against a civilian population.""
it's not that he Must then Attack harshly... it's that he will because of it's violent nature given the history...even the non violent walks and protests are met with unhinged violence... let alone a staged jailbreak with absent forces for a planned 6 hour free time
Very interesting presentation, but hard to listen on the internet in the way he is presenting: asking repeatedly questions from the audience; very loudly at times presenting material…. May be it is good to listen inside room, but not convenient for outside listener.
I had exactly the same problem
The verbal bombing was ridiculous. Worst teaching method I've EVER heard.
I would be ok if we could hear what the students were saying, very difficult without this.
It is an indoctrination technique - which apparently works quite well with these naive children
Just appreciate their uploading something primarily for students. Have you seen the old JP uni lectures?
This was amazing! I needed this.
Thank you for your introduction!! It is beautiful to hear Jews, such wonderful people & culture address our problematic present. I am a gentile. I have a reverence for Judaism. But I have deep problems with contemporary Israel. Thank you so much for allowing comments. God have mercy on us all. It will the first words from all our lips: "mercy Lord!".
lol what problems do you have with "contemporary" Israel?
@@phyllisbarr4766He is likely one of those gentiles who thinks we are beautiful and dignified when we stoically walk into the cattle cars, but has problems when we defend ourselves.
@@Sl1pstreams
Yes. EVERYBODY who has ANY criticism of the actions of the Israeli government under Netanyahu is antisemitic, and wants to see Israel destroyed - even the many *Jews* who oppose the policies towards the Palestinians are antisemitic "self-hating Jews", even those who are *Jewish Israeli citizens* and protest the war are antisemites!!
You can't just go crying "Antisemites!" everytime someone criticisms the Israeli government. Because eventually, just like the "Boy Who Cried Wolf", nobody is going to believe you anymore.
"Defend ourselves". Yea, and how many more Gazan children have to die until you feel safe? Obviously the 10,000+ (probably closer to 20,000) aren't enough, so can you give me a rough estimate of how many more need die? Or maybe you are on the side of those like Jared Kushner or those within the Likud Party who want to see the IDF "Finish the job" and free up all of that "Valuable real estate" in Gaza for "development" of "Jewish settlements".
Which is the literal definition of "ethnic cleansing"!!
reminds me of the cartoon with the hamasshole guy holding with a sign that says kill all Jews and a baby that is hostage and an intermediary sitting between them and Netanyahu the intermediary asks Netanayahu...Can't you meet them half way? @@Sl1pstreams
@@phyllisbarr4766 Well it was founded on massive land theft, expulsions and atrocities. And it continues inflicting atrocities, and some of its ministers now are explicitly planning and advocating seizing the rest of the land.
But to recognize any of this you have to recognize the humanity of the people this was imposed upon. Zionists have a LOT of trouble recognizing the humanity of the Palestinian people.
thx for having this public, great speaker, very interesting content...
This is amazing - should have greater reach
The existence of Israel undermines the islamic (or maybe islamist) notion that the Islam made the rest of the abrahamic religions obsolete.
Even worse - according to the presenter - the view by the Palestinian elite seeing Islam was humiliatingly pushed out by lowly Jewish Russian refugees, not defeated with honor by powerful Western nations.
Its a common ISLAMIC notion that Islam is superior to other religions. This belief is a precursor to everything else.
@@davesax11 yes u r right ,the muslims consistently talk ab how perfect their religion is ,abt how quickly their religion is spreading throught out the world,as to how islam alone could solve world problems etc etc.....
Isn't the existence of Israel dependent on the notion of Jewish Supremacy ?
Glad that there are some teachers left in this world, eager to make others to research and learn thinking and acting upgrade in many regards.
What he says about MLK is what I was scorned for 45 years ago, when I told my not white colored friends in th US-Army just the same.
How can I see your other videos on UA-cam? What are the names of the other lectures in English and your full name?
I think there is only one conclusion: if the Israel story doesn't work and the Palestinian story doesn't work, it's time for a new story. And the template is there: secular states that allow all religions.
Do you think the Islamic☪ nations would go for this?
Well said. 🙂 There are people trying to create this right now. Look up Standing Together. They are a jointly-led Israeli-Palestinian peace organization that works to make Israel a home for all its citizens.
@@Drekromancer It is sad that the West applies different rules to Israel than to any other nation. Everywhere else, the separation of church and state is celebrated. Just not in Israel. Many people are too ignorant to recognize the contradictions in their beliefs.
The problem I see is that the conflict is only partly over religion. To a large extent its about lost land, past harms, security concerns, geopolitics in the background, etc.
Israel doesn't want a new story and neither do Jews - they want to uphold Jewish supremacy
What is the question around 43:00 where he says, I don't want to get into it, but wikipedia is your friend. It's something about the San Remo conference.
yes, ithink it is
we live in Israel, Jews and Arabs, and we have good life. most of us live without politics and getting into deep stories. we are the present and the future of the middle east
What is the name of the podcast?
I think he's referring to Call me Back with Dan Senor (most of the non-Haviv guests aren't that great tho)
Why you skip over the Nakba? The mass slaughter of non-combatant Arab Palestinians in 1948 and their mass-displacement of over 700,000??
Very convenient and a bunch of cherry picking of events going on in this lecture masquerading as intellectualism
Thank you very much it was a great lecture ❤
Do you think there's ever been any classrooms in Gaza having conversations like this? I doubt it.
Of course there is. Palestinians are amongst the most educated in the world.
@@nadanaim307 Learning to push a button on your s-i-cide vest isn't "education".
Yes, even the lecturer in this video clearly says: "it's at the heart of the internal Palestinian elites' discussion of us"... Did you even watch the video before making your ignorant comment?
@@nadanaim307wtf
@@nadanaim307let's assume you are a people who breeds Nobel laureates. The question isn't are you having high brow conversations but could a Palestinian professor walk in to a Palestinian classroom and talk about why Jews have a legitimate story in which they are genuinely the indigenous people or even better yet could I walk in an talk about women having freedom. Are you seriously going to suggest that answer might be yes.
BDS is more about the brutality of the occupation of the West Bank, Golan Heights and Gaza than opposing Zionism.
חביב, כל כך מעודד להקשיב לך, לראות שצעירים מקשיבים לך וחושבים איתך. בלי מהומה, בלי זעקה, בלי ויכוחים לא משקפים. הידע ההיסטורי הזה נחוץ כדי להניע את הדרך שארץ הקודש צועדת כיום בכיוון שכדאי לחיות לכולם, בכל העולם. אין שלום בארץ הקודש פירושו לשחק עם הפתיל של שלום עולמי. שתחיה ארוכים, בריאים וחכמים
I hope Douglas Murray listens to this brilliant lecture and gives it more legs. Murray's platform is big enough to teach a lot of people, especially non-Jews, sitting on the fence regarding Israel/Hamas war. More people need to know this stuff.
make arabic translation please
This is one of the great lessons to be tought.
I would love to hear more, structive, thoughts about:
- You only talked about the feelings of the refugees and the actions of the Arab Leaders towards it, what do you have about Zionst actions and Local palestinian feelings towards it.
- What wat rhe status before 1948 in the Arab world and why the migration only started after the cration of the state.
Im not here to debate, I am here to learn more
50:45 The part about the Arab revolt from 1936 to 1939 is completely fascinating, in that the Arab aggression turned the Jews from unstructured militias into actual fighting forces with a hierarchy and training, thus preparing the Jews for success in 1948.
Just as u$a does now, brit empire uses proxy states as its method to expand extortion / forever wars profits RATHER than seek collaboration and peace. Classic empire / capitalism models of exploitation.
You seem to be saying that the accusation of "colonialism" is to do with Israel's sponsor (America, Britain, USSR...). I don't think America's anti-Israel activists see it that way. They believe Jews are colonial on their own behalf, and not on behalf of some greater power.
That's not true, at least not mostly. The Jews aren't to blame, the Zionists that knew they are oppressing another nation are to blame. There are many Jews who say, for religious reasons, that Israel shouldn't exist but they're following the scripture instead of political manipulators and holocaust exploiters.
The Zionists that started the mess persuaded the British into the invasion of Palestine and then they involved the US because it was a bigger power and still is, David Ben-Gurion also states this in his diary and Golda Meir also admits the amount of times she had to go to the US to get them to agree to the colonial project.
The colonisers are the Zionist Jews, although I wouldn't put those two words together because Zionism has become Kahanism today.
Honestly, I think both positions are held by some parts of the coalition. And there's some overlap too, where Americans see Israel as an independent colonial power which is being subsidized, tolerated, and enabled by America. So it's hard to distinguish.
@@Drekromancer Israel is a U.S. ally. But the U.S. wasn't involved in Israel's founding. Britain was, but their support of the Jews was very mixed. They restricted Jewish immigration prior to Israel's founding, and betrayed certain promises. Neither England nor the U.S. created the idea of a Jewish state. That was a purely Jewish creation in the 1800's. Israel's founding was led and implemented by Jews, not the U.S. or the Brits.
@@Drekromancer The claim of Jewish "colonialism" is a hypocritical joke. Colonialism is when an established nation goes about conquering other regions to expand their empire. That's not a description of Israel. Jews were a people without their own nation, because they were displaced over and over, for centuries, everywhere they ever tried to live. Then 6 million Jews were murdered in WW2. Israel is a refugee state. There was never a Jewish empire anywhere, but there was a Christian empire and a Muslim empire. Christians and Muslims attacked, colonized, and enslaved other people's lands for centuries. Through all that time, Jews were ghettoized, mass-murdered, and kicked out. The Muslim world today occupies 30 million square kilometers. Israel is 1/18th the size of California. For any Christian or Muslim to call Israel "colonialism" is a disgusting hypocrisy.
Very useful lecture for me as it emphases some aspects that though are on the surface but don't appear to be important while they are. Thank you.
This professor needs to stop yelling for dramatic effect. Love his content but his delivery ruins it. He tries too hard to be dramatic and it's annoying.
Bojler eladó! (for the algorithm ;) ) Thank you.
I want to take this course! Any chance of getting links to the books he mentioned?
Very informative. Thank you 🙏
Informative? You mean manipulative.
@@Heddyconfettitell me how?
@@aligned4good Because he used facts and constructed a reasonable story where the Zionists are not pure evil. If you really want to learn the true history, I suggest you ignore all that Zionist propaganda and only consider pro-Palestinian sources.
@@Heddyconfetti Imagine thinking the Palestinian narrative holds water under penalty of literal death for not adhering to it.
As an American with Kurdish ancestry I have always been a supporter of Israel and Jewish people, unfortunately the recent events made me rethink all my previous assumptions including almost everything said in this video, I say unfortunately because I and everyone I know in my family and friends circle have an emotional bond with the struggle of Jewish people throughout history and having that image in my mind shattered is difficult.
What previous assumptions are you questioning? I'm an American Jew so I have sympathies for Israel, but if you knew the history of the conflict it was pretty clear it would play out this way on October 8th. I used to have more sympathy for the Palestinian cause until I saw all the marches celebrating October 7th, including quite a few outside of my apartment in Chicago. It was strange to see them in a celebratory mood because I was very distraught knowing what was going to happen to their people. Either they somehow didn't know what was going to happen to Gaza or they did and they were just happier to see the "Zionist entity" suffer a small defeat.
@@trogdor8942they were celebrating because they have lost every war and suffered every indignity possible for the last 75 years. For them it was one victory against their oppressors. Was it right to celebrate the massacre of people of course not... but Israel has murdered and imprisoned so many Palestinians over the years that at least they could celebrate fighting back...
Are you implying that you were too hard on the way ISIL was cleared from Mosul?
@@trogdor8942To be fair, Israelis cheer as bombs rain on Gaza. Many speak openly about their desires for Palestinians to be killed or pushed out. They set up bouncy houses and cotton candy machines as they block food and aid getting to starving Palestinians.
We have all heard and seen the evidence many times over. How can you condemn one side but not the other?
Amazing lesson, I applaud this kind of teaching, getting people to think about the other side while providing historical facts! Just wish they could have something similiar in Palestine...
Excellent lecture!!!
This was the greatest lecture I’ve ever watched about Israeli history! And I didn’t know until the end that it was for American Jews on their birthright trip, that is so amazing 😍 I’m going to go read his work and watch his lectures, wow wish I had him as a professor!
As an Iranian, an American, a Christian, and a human: I stand with Israel, and always will, as do my fellow Iranians. Iranians forever stand with our Israeli and Jewish brothers and sisters 🙏🏽
Iranians stand with Israel? I don't think so , they're about tô get in a war right now!
Winston Churchill "there is no such thing as people's opinion, there is only printed opinion."
Palestine fist used in 1910 & It was spell Falestine !!!
I am Hindu who always suspected "British & Otteman empire were architect of modern history. There was no Pakistan in beginning of 1900, not even Muslims. Then "Save Calipha movement in 1917". Only country where save Calipha movement started. All other Muslim kingdom wanted their kingdom back from Otteman.
Sir, thank you very much for your insights.
You can literally look up Shakespeare using "Palestine", and that's well before 1910. Why lie about an easily searchable fact?
A deep rooted problem - when religions claim theirs is the only way to eternal life and rest are not-important or evil then it can get weaponised at a global scale by powerful interests. You can pretty much justify anything in the name of your definition of "almighty". Other kind of non-religious based conflicts don't scale as much or last that long. Until these problems are understood and recognised and made improvements they will continue to do the damage in a big way. Conflicts among humans will never go away fully but certainly can be minimized.
I don’t think you watched the lecture. This was not rooted in a religious problem.
Exactly! The only solution to this problem is a different story that doesn't distinguish between people on the basis of their religion. In the long run, the only way to save Israel is to ditch the idea of Israel, rename it and build a secular state.
@@kaylakershen6833 true not rooted in that but fuelled by it with no end in sight.
Insane. Blaming Islam and ignoring Israel, esp with whats going on right now. That's like blaming the jews for the Holocaust. Your position is the exact same kind of rhetoric that fuels the dehumanizing of Palestinians by Israelis. "What can we do? They have a violent religion." Meanwhile the jews have a religion of peace and Israel is committing genocide. Religion is not real, behavior is. Focusing on the religious part is idiotic. Might as well focus on what type of shoes people wear. What a crock of shyte
@praveengali3593 It's not even fueled by it. Zionism is about nationalism and colonialism. Religion is a distraction and you fell for it
Such a shame that we didn't hear the audience interaction loud and clear.
this is absolutely on purpose...
Subtitles Could have been FOR ALL!!! That it is why l see it as part of shaping the view type of video:
%only for ~1 person from the audience there were subtitles ..
EVERYONE WHO actually watched it.. know that a lot of people from audience participated... but on purpose we can't hear their opinion.
!?! So question is...: CAN we here different opinions, on different questions;
....or not😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🎉😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😊
@@reneconstantine3195this is what’s known as a lecture. Trying paying attention in school, you’ll notice most of your classes involve lectures.
The other problem here is that the words colonialist and empire are used in a negative way only against the French and the English. Germany and the Islamic Ottoman Empire were colonial empires also .
El Alamein was lost according to Rommel, because the Nazis ran out of fuel.
Why?
The Soviet Union had seized Baku, Azerbaijan, and therefore had control over the oil that Hitler needed and had ran out of as the war progressed, in both El Alamein and Stalingrad, where they didn't have enough fuel to retreat.
So..... actually it was the Soviet Union (Russian and heavily Jewish in science and engineering and intelligence (Cheka)), who had indirectly beaten the Nazis, EVEN at El Alamein
>> El Alamein was lost according to Rommel, because the Nazis ran out of fuel. - Why?
Because the Royal Navy blockaded German ports.
Um... Cheka wasn't intelligence, and it certainly wasn't military intelligence. They were a commission created to root out counter-revolutionary activity during and after the 1917 revolution, and were dissolved in 1922. They were succeeded by OGPU, then NKVD... all of which were ministries for *interior* security. GRU was the Soviet intelligence agency in WW2.
The Soviets also, btw, were pretty directly responsible for the start of WWII and therefore, indirectly, the Holocaust.
If it hadn't been for the Molotov/Ribbentrop Pact, Hitler might never have started the war at all. He was desperate to avoid the two front war that had led to Germany's loss in WWI, so Germany allied with their Soviet friends, which of course made sense: they were both totalitarian countries with state-run economies, atheist ideologies, and expansionist agendas. Their alliance was so natural that when Hitler betrayed it two years in Stalin was so shocked that he was incommunicado for several days afterward.
Had there been a possibility in 1939 that the Soviets would ally with the West, everything would almost certainly have been different. But of course Hitler offered them half of Eastern Europe as a de facto slave empire, and Stalin jumped at that... and as it turned out they got all of it, plus half of Germany itself, for half a century.
The overall reason was that the RAF decimated Rommel's meager supply chain. Moreover, Rommel violated his orders and went way further than the Germans could supply him for. The resources were never there to take Egypt.
Brilliant lecture, thanks
Thank you for the enlightenment. Now I am brighter. Thank you
Is this true or false?
No, you have lost a few more cells.
Does being indoctrinated make you glow in the dark?
I’d like a modern equivalent, as comparison, to understand how important pride and honor are to Muslims.
It is nothing to do with pride and honour. It has everything to do with justice.
That goes back to just the pure religion, what they're told in the book. The only way to solve those problems is for them to move towards secularism, as most of the other religions in the world have done over the last 500 years.
@@s13rr4buf3 So can I take it that you have read "the book" or is this just idle speculation?
@@intuitionist1 It's a very short book, especially compared to the Bible.
I do own a translated copy of the Koran. The whole thing is in huge decorative print with thick pages. It's like a children's book.
It goes on and on about how to treat your captive slave women, unbelievers that you have conquered militarily, "whom your right hand possesses," whether you have to feed them or how much, and what kind of rituals you have to go through before you can force them to have sex with you. There are slightly different rules for when and how to force your wives to have sex with you.
There is no concept of consent on the part of the women. It's only about going through the motions of religious ritual, to make sure that God doesn't hold your sex-having against you. You have to abstain on certain days, etc.
@@s13rr4buf3 "No I haven't read it" would have been a more concise (and honest) answer
interesting to witness this as an arab, unfortunately, this still doesn't even scratch the surface. great start but only a start to empathise. may I offer a piece of advice? be audacious, ask more questions, starting from here
W O W Terrific lecture -lots to think about on both sides
There are no two sides. There were innocent Jewish refugees manipulated and broken by the Imperial West and now they've picked the Imperialists baton in this delusional of self preservation is justification. Now the jailed has become the jailer. The oppressed has become the oppressor. Evil is evil. Don't get me wrong, as a Muslim I proudly say fuck Islamism and most certainly antisemitism. But what Israel is, that's just shameful.
Hi Palestinian here living in West Bank. I don’t see this as zero sum conflict as in Israelis can stay despite the fact that my experience with them throughout my life has only been unpleasant (and by unpleasant I mean gory, scary, and full of rage). That being said, I believe that the statement that Israelis have no where to go is more than disingenuous. It’s not the last century anymore and many Israelis have American or/ and European passports. I’m not saying they need to leave, most of them got a horrible accent and don’t really belong there anyway, besides the ones that leave are not extremists and the little Ben-Gvirs but rather the sane ones. But what I’m saying is that the phrase ‘no where to go’ can be misleading especially in a world where any citizen of any country can come be a permanent resident on this land just for being Jewish. And especially when this very statement i.e. ‘no where to go’ hold more ground when describing us Palestinians; I for one only have Palestinians passport living in West Bank can only go into Jordan and even then can’t get to become a citizen there. So between the options ‘believe in Zionism’, ‘admit it’s a Jewish homeland’, and ‘Jews got no where to go’ I nor any Palestinian I can think of finds justice or truth in that on the Israeli side. What I can work with, however, is that Israelis have also suffered even though their suffering is in the thousands and ours is in the hundreds of thousands. I also believe that both of us have been on this land for more than a life time and no one has to go anywhere. I admit not a lot of Palestinians came to this conclusion yet nor do I blame them for for it as it is hard to think that way when you have a killed family member, a bulldozed house, a land you get kicked out of, or when your daily life involve a soldiers harassing you on checkpoints. I don’t believe any of the kids in Gaza who had their family, friends, pets, and belongings blown up to pieces and are left with injuries and PTSDs for the rest of their lives can comprehend the idea seeing justice on the other side. I for one have to constantly contain myself and not think about what I see in Gaza to be able to think and speak that way. If Israel really wants a future of peace with us Palestinians, they should give us a reason to forget our suffering and misery and start thinking forward. One great way to get us to do that as you might have guessed is to stop the suffering and misery. Stop expanding settlements, stop raiding houses, stop kicking people out of their homes, and stop military occupation and military trials. But honestly why would someone like Bibi do that? He can keep us radicalized and hateful of Israel to the point of not even being able to think of peace and he gets to justify killing us, grabbing more land, and kicking more of us out.
I don’t want to talk about colonialism bit and drag this for longer than it is but since he talked about MLK strategy of creating a violent response that can’t be ignored, dare I say that’s somewhat akin to Hamas strategy. Nevertheless, more than 30,000 have been killed in Gaza in the span of less than 6 months, including more than 10,000 children; people are starving; most of Gaza is flattened; and 5% of the population is either dead, mutilated, or missing. Yet most of Israelis support this war to continue. Not one Israeli TV news channel is broadcasting what the world sees happening in Gaza. If that’s really the answer how much more bloody does it need to get? If there is one thing I need Israelis to hear is that the burden of initiating peace falls not on the underdog who is being beaten up and fights back but on you who’s got the upper hand and being psychotic in thinking you’re always the victim doesn’t help.
Peace,
What an arrogant comment - "most of them got a horrible accent and don’t really belong there anyway". Well I assure you before 1948 the Jews in eastern and central and western Europe had a perfect accent - Russian, Polish, German, Dutch or whatever, they thought they belonged in Europe but the Europeans made it clear to them that they were not welcomed. Even in the US there was always a discrimination against the Jews before 1948 (and after). So yes, Jews can live in the west but are not totally welcomed there and always face some sort of discrimination and antisemitism to a more or less extent.
As an Israeli who live in Jerusalem I see people like you - Palestinians from the west bank who seem to really enjoy spending time in Israel and among Israelis (that's before 7/10). I used to see them regularly in our coffee shops, malls, parks etc. They didn't seem scared but very content. Also for some reason they seem to want to become Israeli citizens real bad. They constantly try to get an Israeli ID and try to work in Israel legally or illegally.
You might not mind the 2 states solution but you have to be blind not to know that most of your people rejected and still reject that idea and have constantly attacked Israel and Israelis.
You Palestinians are Arabs. Before 1948 many of you came and went from the holy land to other areas in the middle east and had families in places that are now Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria etc. You have the same language and culture and before the British and French created separated Arab states you all saw yourselves as part of the big Arab nation. So don't tell me that "Palestinians" who came to the holy land from Egypt a 100 years ago, all of a sudden cannot be part of Egypt. The only reason you cannot be citizens of Arabs countries is because the Arabs want to keep you as refugees so the conflict will stay alive. The Europeans on the other hand always saw the Jews as different than them.
You don't know much about history and Zionism. If you really want to understand what's going on I recommend that you learn. Zionism was started because of European antisemitism. In addition it was called Zionism because of the UNDENIABLE connection of the Jewish people to Zion (Jerusalem) and the holy land. You have to be a real ignorant not to know about that.
And please don't play the victim. Among us Jews and Palestinians I think we can drop the masks you put for the west. Israelis and Jews (before 1948) suffered your barbaric savage attacks - rapes, murders of women, babies, children, old people for more than a 100 years. Only in extreme and few cases did Jews went our and murdered civilian Palestinians and even then never with the savagery of your people. And when these few cases happened, there was a shock and total condemnation from all the Jewish or Israeli public. In your case this is the norm and the culture. And most of your casualties only happen when you attacked first.
You can clearly see the difference between us and you when you see the parents of children that your terrorists butchered speak in pain, but never with hate and revenge and never teach their other children to become shahids like your people do.
I can continue to comment on your usual lies but I'm afraid my comment will be to long and will not be posted.
Please ...... evry good and lasting change comes from within. Only true solution is : Palestinians will have to find peace in their hearts and get rid of their gangster leaders. While the Jews will have to understand that peace can only be obtained.... when they get rid of their own aggressive leaders.
"being psychotic in thinking you’re always the victim" refers to whom?
Apparently to underscore one's point,
Killing children goes back to Abraham as a part of the process.
It's really good to hear a respectful contrasting opinion. One not written in anger or at least not coming across that way. If you can't except the the Jews have nowhere to go, maybe you can work on accepting that they choose not to. In any real sense it is they that have built a decent literate civilization for at least themselves, but also many of the Arabs who live there. As seen from afar it's quite clear that the increasing suppression of the Arabs/Palestinians in Israel is a function not of the strong attacking the weak but of the weak weaponizing that weakness and using it to attack. Israel tried to make peace, multiple times. Each time the Palestinians said, "no!" That was their right, but the last serious attempt brought on the second intifada. It speaks to a total lack of collective responsibility on the side of the Arabs; that they lost 3, maybe 5 wars and still insist that the Israelis are the war mongers. If you want peace you have to make real concessions, painful concessions. The right of return is dead. As an American I've never seen any serious discussion from the Arab side of a solution to the conflict that isn't demographic or political suicide for Israel and that guarantees no peace. The story is complicated, but at its base these are two people telling two different stories, one with a lot more self reflection and honesty than the other.
The European colonialist settlers who stole all the land of America from the indigenous peoples could also claim "they have nowhere to go." The fact remains it was a vicious land grab by settlers willing to exterminate a native population so they could have a nice home for themselves.
Very good!
I enjoyed every second!!!
The whole thing was a blaady mess for real, it started off as political where the Russian Jews who immigrated, fleeing as refugees were in fact pillared between posts really; of the Ottoman demise, which wasn’t their fault and the British, then the religious argument came in to support and validate the narrative.
At this juncture in history the wise should see though, that both peoples are there to stay and should strive to live in peace like the majority of Arabs in Israel, or just stay in their territory, cause the war(s) is over and we all need to live.
Both sides:
Arabs against Jews
Muslims against Jews
21 Arab countries against Israel
56 Muslim countries against Israel
Islam vs. Judaism
Shia vs. Sunni
Iran vs. Turkey vs. KSA vs. Egypt
USSR/Russia vs. USA East vs. West
Partial list of drivers of this conflict
He talks about how the Palestinian elite were thinking, not about how the man in the street was feeling. Strangers coming to a land, speaking a foreign language and not mixing with the locals, this is bound to cause some hostility. He ignores this fact. The Arabs did not consider themselves as Ottomans as the empire did not integrate its subjects, rather treated them as separate communities with their own culture, language and traditions.
At the beginning of the century, jews coming to Israel had the Arab as an ideal of a free person living freely on his land. They very much wanted to befried the arabs, learned agriculture from them, emulated them in dress, etc.
None of the Jewish leaders who came to Israel at the start of the twentieth spoke Arabic. Not Ben Gurion, Golda Meir, Moshe Sharett, Eshkol, etc. The first step in befriending the locals is to learn their language.
@@ghamrahuk not necessarily, you can be friendly in other ways. plus they had to learn Hebrew as well.
@@lizberezin2919Sorry, how can you be friendly if you can't or won't communicate with the locals ? Hebrew is similar to Arabic, it wouldn't have been that difficult. East Europeans viewed the Arabs with condescension just as they did their brethren from Arab lands.
@@ghamrahuk You easily can. I live in Israel and I work with some Arab people and I am friendly with them in Hebrew. I don't speak Arabic, but I absolutely don't feel any condensation or whatever towards them. I feel towards them as I feel towards my other teammates. Sorry, what you are saying has no connection to reality.