Mel Lewis Swish Knocker Cymbal at Memphis Drum Shop
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2020
- Zildjian 22" A Swish Knocker Cymbal -
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John Riley playing and discussing the Swish Knocker with master cymbal maker Paul Francis.
This cymbal is exclusive to Memphis Drum Shop and myCymbal.com
Contact us at sales@memphisdrumshop.com
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Every time I've seen these zildjian comparison videos, i find the original ones sound better to me in a blind test. Always insightful stuff though
This series with John Riley has just been amazing 👌👌 The Philly joe cymbal one was like an early bday present
I too was influenced by Riley to buy the morello cymbal
6:05 - This right here is exactly how I fell in love with drums in the first place. I can actually hear music in my head over this beat.
Beautiful sounding cymbals... lot's of character in that old one!
Thanks Memphis Drums, John, and Paul. Great stuff!!!
This is not just interesting, but very informative and educational. Didn't know how to appreciate swish cymbals before. Great content!
Always an education to hear you speak John. Thank you. (Very best books on modern jazz drumming too!)
John Riley is one of my favorite players. I like his books and his playing a lot, and I met him at the Village Vanguard once, where he was able to show (together with my friend Phil Pallombi on bass) how well his big band playing is
I picked up a swish prototype about six months ago from MDS. Mine only has six rivets, but it sounds more like Mel's than the one in the video. It has great stick definition and is dark. That cymbal adds so much when I playing with the big band. Love it. Great video.
"Look for the one that sustains the longest." Great advice. Cheers!
Have one in my closet. Purchased it in the 70,s
Mr. Riley the true historian 👌🏽🎶
I've been contemplating selling my Swish Knocker which I purchased in '05 and never played. Always thought it would be too brash sounding. After watching this cool vid, I'm going to give it another shot. Thank you John and Paul!
Let it age. It'll meadow out
heck, if it’s an original 24” I’ll buy it 😃
wonderfull words
The one that Mel Lewis had is How much lower darker sound and So Jen makes a really good copy of that symbol and I’m happy to own one myself
Great, looks like the swish knocker is on his return! I like the rivetless swish knocker from 1979 the most used by Simon Phillips, if zildjian is watching in the comments you should really reproduce that as a marketed cymbal, I believe its 24” without rivets, would be an instant buy for me.
Yes, a 24 inch without rivets would be awesome. I am still trying to figure out what Billy Cobham played with Mahavishnu, I can't find such details despite trying, but I bet it was a large diameter swish.
There's the Paiste 2002 24" Swish Ride, which definitely is worth checking out!
they got it pretty close this time. the reproduction is still a bit higher with a bit more high end, probably because it doesn’t have the patina of the older cymbal
Caw caw caw caw
i was lucky enough to find an older one it has a much more sweater sound than the new ones which i hate
I've just bought a 1960s zildjian 22 avedis swish, what's yours?
I was just about to put my Swish up for sale, until I saw this video!
Another way to tell it's the "Best" cymbal - is to - again - tap it fairly hard with your finger... and lift it up right next to your ear, and listen for the low overtones - you will hear a low hummmmm... The Less of that low hum that you hear - the cleaner the sound of the cymbal - the "better" the cymbal is... You want little to no low hum - and that will give you the cleanest, longest, purist sustain and overall sound... I have a 70's vintage, 20" Zildjian "Pang" cymbal that has this characteristic... Zero low overtones... and it is amazing... I love to use it as a ride under a Latin Bossa groove... I also just acquired an older 20" Zildjian "Swish" (no rivets tho) with similar qualities...
You guys should do one about buddy rich because he had a swish knocker
Wow what knockers!!
Davey Tough
Cool origin story tidbits!
I have a 27 inch Meinl prototype China I was able to get when I talked a big store into letting me open their shipment. It is paper thin and sounds like an axe murder.
That’s a nice approximation of the original. 👍👍
I'd love to know more about the original Mel Lewis swish. Diameter, grams, stamp type. Thank you!
i love those knockers....................just saying. i have mr. rileys book.
What a fantastic comparison- but to my ears, the two Swish knockers sound TOTALLY different… I REALLY REALLY REEEEEEEALLLLY waaaaaaaant one of the original “Mother” cymbals but they are gone…. is there any kind of treatment for the new cymbals to make them closer to the originals?
Mel Lewis was the one who talked buddy rich into getting a swish knocker And I bet his was a low pitch to
I personally prefer the masters swish by Paiste, but I always enjoy listening to these :)
Was gonna say the same - I have one, nothing else like it
The paiste masters 22"swish is simply the best.I can't believe zildjian don't try to copy this cymbal.Beautiful ride,and crash,and depending on how you hit it will work in a lot of different styles. VERY expensive, but there the only company putting something like this out on the market.Zildjian really should put there spin on it.
Interesting.
Buddy rich had this cymbal the 70s
I think they replicated the Mother perfectly
Can zildjian do something similar with paper-thin hihats like from the 30's? I've always loved that sound but no hihat today is ever thin enough
So true!!! Cmon zildjian get it together!!
Yeah!! Super papery and small. They sound so great on old recordings.
I have an old pair of Bosphorous Traditional hi-hats that I got when Bosphorous first came to market. They come the closest, that I have found. I'm not sure why Zildjian doesn't leverage their legacy and replicate some of these old cymbals. We would all pay for them!
It's funny you should say that, because just yesterday I was watching a video by The Boston Drum Centre (Sonor Vintage Series Three20 & 5.75" x 14" Snare) from about 4 years ago which features some hi hats which I thought sounded amazing. They were listed as "Trans Stamp" hi hats, so I immediately went to the Zildjian website thinking this was some new series(!) Nothing there. Then it occurred to me these were actually vintage hi hats (and sure enough, it does actually say that in the listing "vintage"! Ah ha; 'trans stamp'. Doh!) Anyway, I'd be interested to know what you thought of these if you had a moment to have a look? Are these the sort of thing you are talking about?
Check out the Istanbul Agop 30th Anniversary hi-hats. They have a really dark, papery sound. I thought they were too thin and lacking in crispness, but maybe they're what you're looking for.
Wow. I did not know a swish knocker was considered a ride cymbal.
I don't knoooooow..... that Mel Lewis is even darker and more complex. They ought to call it the "Tiramisu" cymbal!
Many of these comments overlook the effect years of playing have on a cymbal. No new cymbal will be as mellow as played in cymbal.
They both sound very nice, but of course the Mel Lewis original sounds the best. It's hard to beat an aged cymbal sound like that, especially one stamped "MOTHER" 50+ years ago by dudes who knew what they were looking for.
4:08 only impossible to do with predominantly machine made cymbals...
Kevin..your point is the key to this entire series of "comparisons". While not 100% accurate..Paiste has clearly shown you can duplicate a sound of a specific cymbal. Now good or bad..that is pretty much fact. Now..for Zildjian....trying to duplicate a cymbal that was most likely made entirely by hand with one that comes off a machine IS nearly impossible to match. The subtle shapings...hammerings...refinements..adjustments..aren't there and it can make the difference in a whole host of tonal ways.
Again...with all the newer Zildjians..they are too bright and lack a pleasing underlying foundational "hummmmm" that I loved from them back in the 60's and 70's when I first started playing their cymbals. They sound like you are playing ON them..not IN them. The older masterpieces..like this one...sounds like the stick actually goes INTO the cymbal and that makes for a more delicate and more pleasing sound.
i had one. sold it on ebay.im an idiot.
Sorry but the hell thought that Avedis cymbal sounded anything close to the actual Swish Knocker? Beautiful cymbal, you can't compare, the closest thing is the riveted Istambul china.
They do not sound the same at all. Sorry
Paiste Masters Swish and now discontinued Traditionals Swish are way better.
I agree but there is a swish out there that has the true character of what a swish should be .Menil jazz china ride cymbal .It records like a dream ,great for any kind of music and the best I have ever heard and played .Zildjian lost the formula for making them along time ago. Meinl take chances on producing new sounds but it was that old swish they rediscovered. LOOK it up on you tube it an amazing cymbal
It sounds like a china