Hard to belive Sonic Robo Blast 2 is like decades old and is still being worked on. Most Sonic fangames from that era have either been longed abandoned or had development restarted
@@Caioviski795If I'm not mistaken, the first version of SRB2 in 3D (that means, working on the Doom Engine) was released in 1999, 1 year after the original japanese release of Sonic Adventure and in the same year (yet some time prior) to the international SA1 release, what was released in 1998 was the original 2D version of SRB2 which looked a lot like its predecessor, even using the same sprite for Sonic (earless) Plus, even if that was the case, before SA1, we had Sonic the Fighters, Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic Into Dreams (the Christmas NiGHTS mode), Sonic Jam and Sonic R, all released prior to both SA1 and SRB2, all which can be considered Sonic's first 3D game ever and there's even a considerable debate about it
Most fangames are abandoned full stop. Anytime there's a SAGE all I see are demos that gets abandoned the next day, there's too few games that continue. SRB2 one of the few rare exception that continued.
at this point, they should just make srb3 with the new physics and movesets. it would work so much better in a fresh new game than just continuously overhauling srb2. id love to see all of this in a new game, honestly
Finish SRB2 _then_ make a third one (either with an even more improved Doom Legacy engine or an entirely different one). SSNTails has made a proof of concept called Sonic Robo Blast X.
i love how the reason for replacing thok is "to make it easier for players to master" meanwhile while thok was just a double jump ability the scrapped new ability had a whole moveset itself
It's also ironic how they're trying to make Sonic the "easy mode" character, when Tails' the one who has that role in the official games while Sonic (alone) is some sort of "Hard mode" in them
@@thenewjgg It's not about making him easy mode so he can just skip sections of the game like tails or something, it's about making the move more intuitive. The thok is weird to control for new players. It isn't fun to start playing the game and throw yourself into a pit immediately. Even as someone who's played the game since the early days, I think it could be replaced with something that feels better and is more fun.
@charliekahn4205 But the general way the momentum and physics work (on flat surfaces though, Srb2 handles slopes differently since 2.1) is pretty much 1 to 1 with Doom.
2.3 does seem to have some promising things about it in terms of loops and wall running being a thing, a part of me can't help but protest however that stuff like that flies in the face of how SRB2 is already designed. I get that it's also mainly to try and make the game fit more in the current design sensibilities of recent Sonic fangame outputs but it feels almost counter intuitive to have it attached to a legacy name at this point. This is mainly from someone who'd rather just see 2.3 as a patch that fills in the missing levels and gives other levels the polish they need to fit in the current base of slope themed level design and emphisis on the control scheme of keyboard and mouse. Still DOOM in general loose design but retrofitted more into a Sonic fare with speed and movement being more pronounced. I dunno I kinda wish whatever they're doing just becomes a new game and 2.3 for SRB2 is reworked to just finish the games vision set out since 1997 with the additions that still ring true to the general gameplay structure of what also came before.
While some STJR members are on KKD, it's not accurate to say that many STJR members worked on Ring Racers. A large majority of KKD have never been on STJR, and the groups have differing design philosophies for their games.
This is just in relation to the loops. I heard that the problem with implementing them wasn't the physics, it was the rendering of the loop in the game, but clearly someone within Kart Crew figured it out. Even if they weren't personally part of Sonic Team Junior, I'd like to think they'd tell the developers who are about how to do it.
@@The_JackalMan There's no problem rendering loops, they've been possible to render since the addition of slopes. RR's loop setup is an auto-spline that takes your momentum and entering position along the bottom into account for a preset "animation" toward the exit point; i.e. a smoother version of the Adventure games' loops, as we were just focused on getting the feature in and didn't need any more nuance. SRB2's new loop setup is dynamic, closer to actual real slope physics you can interrupt at any time and play around with.
2:14 i actually have to object here as someone who plays a lot of classic doom - a lot of srb2's momentum is actually there in the original doom engine, the top speed is just much slower in that game so it's not as noticeable (esp since very few of the vanilla maps actually require any form of speed control). a lot of the jankiness of the current system like the bezier curve is a direct result of the use of doom's physics, in fact
I admit I've never played the original DOOM. I was just parroting what I've heard others say in the past, but I'm sure they still did some work on improving the model to match a momentum platformer.
I feel as though at this point if theyre making this many changes that 2.3 should be entirely separate from 2.2, almost like a sequel. I think SRB2 in its current form, while flawed, is still fun and it uses the Doom engine's quirks to its advantage.
I think the Fang and Amy updates might come out in the next 2.2 update? The new sprites which were meant to come out a few updates ago were shelved due to "code relating to Fang and Amy not being finished" and i think this is what they meant by that
I always just wanted Sonic’s Max Control Moveset. Doesn’t really feel right for a character about Running and gaining Speed to constantly have to be spamming an air action to be at his base top speed. Pariah695’s video on SRB2 is basically my opinion on the moveset thingy.
I had no idea there was or this was a sequel to commando! I am sure this generated a response from SNK with Shock Troopers. The game is not as hard as Commando which was welcoming lol. I do wish I knew this was on the SMS, would have been a no brainer purchase. Winner: Arcade Second winner: All of us with a Christmas Eve drop! Thank you again for all the efforts with these videos, no doubt time comsuming espcially if you are aiming for more than just 1 level or just a start of a level. Thus making you a badass and Merry Christmas Bill!!!!
I feel like those golden age minecraft people or whatever who still play beta 1.7.3 because they like the vibe and diff direction of old minecraft, but with SRB2 Not saying i dislike the new direction, but this video made me think about it and i think i vibe with the pre-2.1 one more
Some of the changes make me a bit anxious that they'll make the game worse, but you know what? I trust Sonic Team Jr. They've been at this for years, and grow more experienced by the day. I have faith they'll pull through and give us something good for even the most contentious decisions.
I doubt that updated MP special stages will be NiGHTS themed. Multiplayer used to just use the singleplayer ones, but being in multiplayer absolutely _broke_ them.
As someone looking from the outside in, is there any community mod packs or such compilations that bring together the best layout and character mods from the community into one? With decades of fan content, it's daunting to start hunting down things on ones own. Instead I just watch the neat character showcase videos for Trip and the like.
11:02 - The idea that they're going over to JSON for animation coding makes me wonder if they're ditching SOC entirely. I can't imagine they're going to implement yet another scripting language on top of Lua, SOC and Ring Racers' ACS.
If I recall correctly, a STJr staff member of some sort once replied to one of the popular momentum mods on the message board in response to the mod granting Fang the ability to shoot his gun while moving something along the lines of he was always supposed to be able to shoot his gun while moving but it took far too long to sprite it so they gave up on it. Whole I can't remember the source, I also think it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect they may revisit the idea of allowing Fang to use his pop gun in more situations than standing still in the future. Other than that I don't know much else than what's mentioned in this video.
9:36 I agree with adding more animation graphics with walking, running, etc. And the better feel with the character interacting with the environment. But at the same time, the Doom engine (While the srb2 team improving on it) has it's limitations. I'm not saying that it won't be a possibility, but I feel it will be a low priority when making 2.3 and so on.
11:10 Sprite2s/spr2s (they are for in-game sprites) will be removed sprite flags were going to be replaced with a .json-based animation system akin to .xml files
You basically described 80% of all sonic fangames. Way too much ambition; years or even decades in development; either release a new demo or cancel the whole game.
5:22 Actually. That ability was just one of our many prototypes. We have multiple different coders doing their own takes on the ability afterall. It just so happened that the ability showcased there in particular was something that some devs wanted to show off. That ability was never confirmed or set in stone internally. The showcase was just simply a dev wanting to share what they've been up to. Though once we saw people's confusion about its supposed complexity and how it fit into the wider game, we decided to hold back revealing indev or conceptual ideas that are not finalized. Also 11:11 This change in particular is actually something I've wanted for a long while. It lets me make Ultimate Inazuma and silverhorned Inazuma without the need of massively bloating freeslots. XD
>The showcase was just simply a dev wanting to share what they've been up to. Of course the negative attention it got made us realize how bad it is to have open discussions about what we are doing hence why the amount of stuff we discuss or show publicly has drastically decreased. :P So it really is because you people can't take criticism LMAO
@@sonicloverlol2 it’s true though, the lack of transparency in 2.3’s dev cycle isn’t something any other version of srb2 has, and it’s quite frankly very concerning developers shouldn’t be afraid of feedback, and if srb2’s devteam refuses to take any criticism i am not hopeful for 2.3 at all
I feel like it would be imperative to allow people outside development to give their opinions on what you're working on. Whatever solution is landed on in a vacuum might not work well with most people, and in the hopes of avoiding that I think it might be best to be a bit more transparent.
Interesting that the two stages that are under consideration for getting the axe are Mystic stages. It’s been amazing watching the game move from one that is so clearly Mystic-led to what is almost a brand new game with a totally different look and feel.
Honestly both of those stages are, no bias here, kinda outdated compared to 2.2’s whole campaign AGZ is honestly really primitive visually, it uses like, 6 textures and doesnt utilize slopes ATZ is also the same in a sense and both stages aren’t necessarily the best, so I can see why they would remove them
I think my main problem with the thok isnt that its "difficult to use" or "overpowered". My problem is that it doesnt fit Sonic. Sonic should be fastest on the ground, and should spend most of the level on his feet. The thok makes it so that he is fastsest in mid-air, and in speedruns, youll spend only 30% of the level on feet. Like, imagine of tails couldnt fly and instead had a drop dash. Sure, it would be fun and perfectly functional, but it wouldn't fit his character. For that reason, i dont have a probelm with the thok being replaced (although ideally the new replacement should be optional)
I don't really think that putting more stages to SRB2 is something that I want, aside from Red Volcano 2+Boss. Having 7 Zones with matching Special Stages adds alot to the overall charm, and more Zones seem like it would just add bloat. I don't really get wanting to make massive changes at this point either to the engine and design. Those are things I would rather expect a potential Robo Blast 3 to make. I kinda would love it if the new physics, Grand Eggship, Dark City, and unused level design philosophy + gimmicks would be put in a sequel instead. There is probably enough ideas to make it work, rather than replacing what has already been shipped. And I don't think they need to make everything from scratch, they could make the Bonus Zones (Frozen Hillside, Haunted Heights, Azure Temple etc) into full Zones for a full set of 7. I would be cool with it at least.
Also- I think that fans might just respond better to a sequel rather than overhauling what is already feature complete. There might be more room to be exited over new stuff rather than anxious over changes. The team could enjoy a comfortable distance when working on their new design, since it would be separate but updated from SRB2. Less burdened to stay within the old lines and player familiarity.
@@backlogpanicwho said they were making a sequel? They'd have to make a whole fleet of new zones, enemy designs, bosses, music and rtc just to implement ideas that they wanted to see in this game specifically.
@64bitmodels66 The point I was making was more about that the updates Jackalman brings up in the video sounds more like sequel innovations. And that filling SRB2 with more stuff wouldn't add anything necessary. The game already plays well, is content packed, and has a decent length, certainly good for a Sonic game. The work already made for the updates could be put into a distinct follow-up though, and that might be my preference.
@@backlogpanic and i think that's too much work. The game was always planned to have these zones so it should be finished before any sequel discussion gets thrown around. Especially since the game itself getting finished is already something that feels like it's years away, even in current year 5+ years after 2.2
To be honest, the new physics is interesting but it will be significantly less versatile (But the physics involved in making the loop work are pretty amazing) I've experienced this with another game, but the extremely slow updates may be due to the game's long history, and the development team may unconsciously deify it and be afraid of releasing updates without thinking carefully. They don't want to touch the "legacy" (ah I can't speak English so use Google Translate. may bad english sry)
Any version post the change in soundtrack and addition of "Momentum" aren't even good. Leave momentum in the 90s like Sonic 4 showed us. And the remixed soundtrack may have some decent tracks, but Greenflower act 2 and Egg Rock were completely murdered, and they used to be the best tracks not just in this fangame but the entirety of the Sonic franchise, official or otherwise.
@@genyakozlov1316 Mate, you say that: - SA1's original lighting was worse than SADX - Only good 2D sonic games are 1 and CD, and if you disagree you're not a fan? And even other bad takes I'm not thinking of rn. No one should take ANYTHING you say seriously lmao
I'm not going to lie, the momentum changes worry me. It sounds and looks like it's going to adopt a lot of design decisions I personally don't like about most 3D fangames, which to me feel like they're more interested in being physics sandboxes than good platformers.
Personally I will agree with the notion of having Sonic be easier to play as, my main issue with this game is the lack of grip and traction these character's have, and I find it more fun to play with the slower characters than tempt fate with Sonic's Thok. And I feel like I cheese levels when I play Tails or Knuckles. Like if Sonic had a stomp or something to make it so correcting your movement and preventing dashing into a hazard with a thok, I'd play as him period, there are certain stages I have trouble believing they're designed for Sonic period, biggest case being the entire endgame minus the boss. If the thok had to stay I feel sonic should have additional tools to compliment and control it.
I wouldn't mind aerial garden or azure temple being gone, they were added because of being a contest winner (as far as i remember) desp8te how bad they are. 1 example on 1 of the worst paths in the game, the knuckles path on azure temple has you glide past badniks that give bubble in fou destroy them. The problem is that there is as good as no ground meaning that if you get hit or hit 1 & take a bubble, you drop out of your glide & fall into the bottomless pit, not to mention that these badniks move when you get even somewhat close to them, making it so bad that it's practicly unbeatable, definitely as base knuckles, extremely likely as super knuckles. This means that you pretty much HAVE to get the first bubble shield to cheese your way into the path that everyone else takes as knuckles
GREAT VIDEO!!! As always. Anyway, I don't think Red Volcano should get ANOTHER act. Like, the track sounds good, but RVZ 1 was ALREADY a pain, I don't want another whole act. Besides, not every zone should have two acts and a boss, a bit of variety would be nice. Maybe GEZ and RVZ could have one act where the rest are normal? Also, the "prototype" menu design resembling Mania's looks ugly. I don't like it at all.
Fun fact: that prototype Mania-esque menu is loosely based on a very unoriginal™ menu design mockup of mine that I posted in the SRB2 Discord Server at one point in 2020 The guy who made that prototype actually approached me in DMs and asked for it's assets to make the prototype, and I sent em to em cause why not I'd love to actually show it but YT comments hate links now it seems
Man, even for me who already mastered Sonic in SRB2, I don't really like Sonic's Thok, this skill could be much better, even the insta-shield is more useful (at least for me, I never take damage in any Sonic game or mod which has Insta-Shield), an example of what Thok could be like, is in Mystic Realm CE, where Thok is much more useful there. In fact, Mystic Realm improved many aspects of the base game, or at least in the Beta/Alpha Build that I played (It only works on SRB2 2.2.14 Early Access), they improved some elemental shields.
I get people love the thok, but I'd like some kind of addition to Sonic's kit I never really bother playing sonic in srb2 cause hes kinda, boring by comparison I go fast sure but a lot of the levels feel super compressed so I can never achieve max speed
Tbh I think they should keep the thok but maybe pull a Sonic Mania and have other possible movesets be unlockable through emblems. They could use that to test different ideas. Maybe they could even make the move thats "better for beginner players" only require a single emblem?
I don't really like the direction the game is taking for 2.3. Can we just finish the levels and remaining stuff before thinking of changing GFZ again and even the physic engine? I mean it would be like making an entirely different game (or just a remake of itself) instead of a proper update. I feel the same regarding Terraria with the Journey's End update that basically created a soft remaster of itself than a conclusion like 1.3 was. PS: I also dislike loops in 3D Sonic games, these were obstacles that worked in 2D, in 3D they are merely automated section (that could glitch sometimes) and are a chore to see in third person camera (like in Sonic R) so they pan back to the side to show the loop like in a 2D game (ever since SA1).
I just really want to see Dark City Zone I've been excited to see that zone since I first played SRB2 as a kid and read the stuff on the website about upcoming zones
My idea for Sonic's moveset. Jump (in mid-air): Double Jump (half as high as regular jump, halves momentum, sacrifices speed for precision), Use shield ability. Spin (in mid-air, while standing or walking): Dive Roll (moves forward at a downward angle, think the dive from Mario 64). Spin (in mid-air, while running top speed): Thok! Spin (during thok): Thok-cancel Dive Roll.
They better not change my boi Fang's tailbounce. I could genuinely write a treatise on why the tailbounce is the best ability in the game. Not the most powerful obviously because tails lol, but still the best. Go ahead and change the pop gun tho. If they changed it to act like a pop-jump by default I'd be happy
I don't mind it conceptually, but the pauses between bounces and the weird momentum change when you cancel it mid-air could do with further refinement. Also, he really needs to be able to shoot the Pop Gun in the air.
What future? They've done basically no work on 2.3 for just about a year now. Pretty cool that the Thok video got mentioned though. I like the neutral, objective summary you gave of it (even though I'm not particularly proud of how I approached some of it, the follow-up video is better in that regard).
I check on this comment after watching this video and see 3 likes, 5 minutes later i see 5 likes ohh boy, take a bet on how much more thisll get in a few hours
@@SomeRobIoxDude You do know what Sandwichface has done right? He literally tried to get some hackers to leak private info about the SRB2 Devs, but told the wrong person which eventually led to him getting banned
@@FluppietheRockruffFani do know that im literally just saying im surprised how quickly this comment is getting likes so maybe i worded it wrong in a way that its too vague and im sorry if it was rude …and it has 20ish likes currently as of commenting so uhhhhh And also, one more thing, idrk whose side to take on anymore this drama is absolute nuts and im currently just taking no stance on it
Nota adam! Ana hikaye bu halde ilerledikçe kötüleşiyor. Deep Sea 2 ve Egg Rock/Black Core gibi bölümler 2.1 versiyonlarından kopyalanıp yapıştırılmış bölümler, bu yüzden yüksek hız yerine zor platformlara yönelikler. Ve bu oyundaki bölümleri tamamen farklı oyunlardanmış gibi hissettiriyor. Ana hikayenin geliştirilmesi bu yüzden daha iyi olur. Şunu da unutmamak gerekir, Sonic Team Jr. (Sonic Robo Blast 2'nin yapımcıları) 1996'dan beri iki oyun yaptı. Bunlar da Sonic Robo Blast 1 ve 2. Yani yeni oyun yapmaları düşük bir ihtimal.
i'm gonna get shit for this but the thok sucks ass and i'm sad the new ability was tossed out. i like the idea of a double jump/wall jump/drop dash hybrid and i hope the alternative is at least just as interesting
I’ll just say this now, one thing I’ve wanted ever since I saw it back in OLDC 2020 was Dynamic 2D segments like those in Generations. Whether it be an updated mod or feature in 2.3, I hope it gets added for level designers.
bro this goes so hard, like they're adding more speed to srb2, mixed with platforming, like how a sonic game should be, speed mixed evenly with platforming, rather than cramped spaces where you can easily bump into walls and loose all your speed and then also the slow platforming sections then and there
The issue is that they are turning SRB2 into a _Modern_ Sonic game where speed is put first. Cramped spaces where you need more precise jumps has been a thing since the Genesis days because Sonic is about momentum, not speed. Speed was merely the marketing gimmick of the game but in term of game design they wanted you to have speed only as a reward for playing well, not instantaneously. PS: Check the score attack mode videos because you are quite wrong about "easily bump into walls and loose all your speed and then the slow platforming sections there and there".
@@ikagura I was mostly talking about how speed and platforming should be used together, rather them clashing each other, and the "cramped spaces" I was referring to were mostly the ones in frozen hillside, there can be platforming sections but they don't need to be long and tedious (that disappearing platform section from eggrock 2). Though I'm not sure if they are planning on making the game more speed based rather than a mix of platforming and speed since we only have a few short videos about the new level designs. But tbh I'm fine with a tiny bit of complex platforming as long as it isn't too tedious or annoying. And tbh I like the open world feeling that they are going with tbh
How can the development be a financial issue if it is free? I heard the developers can't be paid to work on the game, but money would mainly help the website and servers. Not for working on the game's development.
Hard to belive Sonic Robo Blast 2 is like decades old and is still being worked on. Most Sonic fangames from that era have either been longed abandoned or had development restarted
nope, srb1 was made after sa1, it was the idea that was made(?) before sa1@@Caioviski795
@@Caioviski795If I'm not mistaken, the first version of SRB2 in 3D (that means, working on the Doom Engine) was released in 1999, 1 year after the original japanese release of Sonic Adventure and in the same year (yet some time prior) to the international SA1 release, what was released in 1998 was the original 2D version of SRB2 which looked a lot like its predecessor, even using the same sprite for Sonic (earless)
Plus, even if that was the case, before SA1, we had Sonic the Fighters, Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic Into Dreams (the Christmas NiGHTS mode), Sonic Jam and Sonic R, all released prior to both SA1 and SRB2, all which can be considered Sonic's first 3D game ever and there's even a considerable debate about it
Most fangames are abandoned full stop. Anytime there's a SAGE all I see are demos that gets abandoned the next day, there's too few games that continue. SRB2 one of the few rare exception that continued.
@@midorifoxsonic momentum and sonic Rush 3D
@Encore2017 sonic utopia, one build.
Sonic rush 3d still hasn't had an update.
oh neat, they're finally adding green flowers to greenflower
Susie can no longer get mad because of that neato.
I must admit, its impressive how far theyre able to, and continue to push the doom engine, despite how it gets in the way with development
at this point, they should just make srb3 with the new physics and movesets. it would work so much better in a fresh new game than just continuously overhauling srb2. id love to see all of this in a new game, honestly
Finish SRB2 _then_ make a third one (either with an even more improved Doom Legacy engine or an entirely different one).
SSNTails has made a proof of concept called Sonic Robo Blast X.
I just wanna see Dark City Zone
Srb3 should be Quake engine lol
I just realized that more time has passed since the release of 2.2 than there was time between the release of 2.1 and the release of 2.2
And 2.1-2.2 wait was pretty long in of itself
@ it’s also around the same length as the wait between 2.0 and 2.1
GD fans: ITS BEEN 7 YEARS WAITING FOR 2.2 UPDATE!!!
the gd community waiting for 2.2:
(its out btw)
@@64bitmodels66we’re actually about to hit the 5 year mark in about a week or two
i love how the reason for replacing thok is "to make it easier for players to master" meanwhile while thok was just a double jump ability the scrapped new ability had a whole moveset itself
It's also ironic how they're trying to make Sonic the "easy mode" character, when Tails' the one who has that role in the official games while Sonic (alone) is some sort of "Hard mode" in them
@@thenewjgg It's not about making him easy mode so he can just skip sections of the game like tails or something, it's about making the move more intuitive. The thok is weird to control for new players. It isn't fun to start playing the game and throw yourself into a pit immediately. Even as someone who's played the game since the early days, I think it could be replaced with something that feels better and is more fun.
@@thenewjgg Knuckles was Sonic 3&K's post-game hard mode.
@@TheCongressman1 no
@@garsrandom4358maybe
The entire momentum system IS from Doom. Doom has momentum.
Technically SRB2 doesn't share much if any code with Doom. The original character movement is from a source port.
@charliekahn4205 But the general way the momentum and physics work (on flat surfaces though, Srb2 handles slopes differently since 2.1) is pretty much 1 to 1 with Doom.
thanks for the clarification of SRB2 in the title, almost didn't think it meant Sonic Robo Blast 2
It's not a clarification, it's a categorisation. All of his SRB2 specific videos have '| Sonic Robo Blast 2' at the end of them.
I really hope Dark City Zone doesn't get scrapped
2.3 does seem to have some promising things about it in terms of loops and wall running being a thing, a part of me can't help but protest however that stuff like that flies in the face of how SRB2 is already designed. I get that it's also mainly to try and make the game fit more in the current design sensibilities of recent Sonic fangame outputs but it feels almost counter intuitive to have it attached to a legacy name at this point.
This is mainly from someone who'd rather just see 2.3 as a patch that fills in the missing levels and gives other levels the polish they need to fit in the current base of slope themed level design and emphisis on the control scheme of keyboard and mouse. Still DOOM in general loose design but retrofitted more into a Sonic fare with speed and movement being more pronounced.
I dunno I kinda wish whatever they're doing just becomes a new game and 2.3 for SRB2 is reworked to just finish the games vision set out since 1997 with the additions that still ring true to the general gameplay structure of what also came before.
While some STJR members are on KKD, it's not accurate to say that many STJR members worked on Ring Racers.
A large majority of KKD have never been on STJR, and the groups have differing design philosophies for their games.
what's KKD?
@aerodynamo4874 Kart Krew Development, the name of the group who made Ring Racers.
This is just in relation to the loops. I heard that the problem with implementing them wasn't the physics, it was the rendering of the loop in the game, but clearly someone within Kart Crew figured it out. Even if they weren't personally part of Sonic Team Junior, I'd like to think they'd tell the developers who are about how to do it.
@@The_JackalMan There's no problem rendering loops, they've been possible to render since the addition of slopes.
RR's loop setup is an auto-spline that takes your momentum and entering position along the bottom into account for a preset "animation" toward the exit point; i.e. a smoother version of the Adventure games' loops, as we were just focused on getting the feature in and didn't need any more nuance.
SRB2's new loop setup is dynamic, closer to actual real slope physics you can interrupt at any time and play around with.
2:14 i actually have to object here as someone who plays a lot of classic doom - a lot of srb2's momentum is actually there in the original doom engine, the top speed is just much slower in that game so it's not as noticeable (esp since very few of the vanilla maps actually require any form of speed control). a lot of the jankiness of the current system like the bezier curve is a direct result of the use of doom's physics, in fact
begging srb2 fans to actually play doom before commenting on it yet again
@@jess648 EXACTLY
yeah, doom physics have a bezier curve because of the way stuff like Thrust works. weird stuff
@@jess648Literally
I admit I've never played the original DOOM. I was just parroting what I've heard others say in the past, but I'm sure they still did some work on improving the model to match a momentum platformer.
4:03 This clip gives me so much joy.
I feel as though at this point if theyre making this many changes that 2.3 should be entirely separate from 2.2, almost like a sequel. I think SRB2 in its current form, while flawed, is still fun and it uses the Doom engine's quirks to its advantage.
like the way ring racers was released?
@@lunar532 yeah! It's different enough to be its own thing and I think 2.3 is about the same deal sort of.
I think the Fang and Amy updates might come out in the next 2.2 update? The new sprites which were meant to come out a few updates ago were shelved due to "code relating to Fang and Amy not being finished" and i think this is what they meant by that
I always just wanted Sonic’s Max Control Moveset. Doesn’t really feel right for a character about Running and gaining Speed to constantly have to be spamming an air action to be at his base top speed.
Pariah695’s video on SRB2 is basically my opinion on the moveset thingy.
Then get MC sonic (Max Control Sonic)
We are getting rail grinding in SRB2. The future for modding is looking bright.
I had no idea there was or this was a sequel to commando! I am sure this generated a response from SNK with Shock Troopers.
The game is not as hard as Commando which was welcoming lol. I do wish I knew this was on the SMS, would have been a no brainer purchase.
Winner:
Arcade
Second winner:
All of us with a Christmas Eve drop!
Thank you again for all the efforts with these videos, no doubt time comsuming espcially if you are aiming for more than just 1 level or just a start of a level. Thus making you a badass and Merry Christmas Bill!!!!
I mean why make Dark City zone when you can remake Greenflower again lol
I feel like those golden age minecraft people or whatever who still play beta 1.7.3 because they like the vibe and diff direction of old minecraft, but with SRB2
Not saying i dislike the new direction, but this video made me think about it and i think i vibe with the pre-2.1 one more
I think I have the most nostalgia for Late Final Demo - Early 2.0 era because thats when I got into SRB2 as kid
@majamystic256 I got into SRB2 in 2020 so i didn't experience pre-2.2 SRB2 first hand, but studying it and how it was is really intresting to me
Replacing the sprite2 system with a json load system functionally means less jank and probably far less limitations for sprites and states
Some of the changes make me a bit anxious that they'll make the game worse, but you know what? I trust Sonic Team Jr. They've been at this for years, and grow more experienced by the day. I have faith they'll pull through and give us something good for even the most contentious decisions.
I doubt that updated MP special stages will be NiGHTS themed. Multiplayer used to just use the singleplayer ones, but being in multiplayer absolutely _broke_ them.
She 2 on my blast til i robo
She Sonic on my Robo till I Blast 🤦
Imao@@Zomboy4313
@@Zomboy43132
She 2(uah) on my robo til I blast
Whut
I think the whirlwind shield's passive is gonna be slow fall, heck, it already has a mod.
As someone looking from the outside in, is there any community mod packs or such compilations that bring together the best layout and character mods from the community into one? With decades of fan content, it's daunting to start hunting down things on ones own. Instead I just watch the neat character showcase videos for Trip and the like.
11:02 - The idea that they're going over to JSON for animation coding makes me wonder if they're ditching SOC entirely. I can't imagine they're going to implement yet another scripting language on top of Lua, SOC and Ring Racers' ACS.
7:03 Thanks for reminding me that THIS stage is gonna have a second act
If I recall correctly, a STJr staff member of some sort once replied to one of the popular momentum mods on the message board in response to the mod granting Fang the ability to shoot his gun while moving something along the lines of he was always supposed to be able to shoot his gun while moving but it took far too long to sprite it so they gave up on it.
Whole I can't remember the source, I also think it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect they may revisit the idea of allowing Fang to use his pop gun in more situations than standing still in the future.
Other than that I don't know much else than what's mentioned in this video.
Get ready for 2.2 addons not working in 2.3, since the devs are replacing the SPR2 system.... Yippie.
wait...do the recent mods again? Ugh...it must be horrible...
this happens every major update though? 2.1 mods don't work on 2.2 either.
Happens every major update.
Someone might make a thing where you can convert a SRB2 v2.2 add on to a 2.3 format
@@FluppietheRockruffFan It would be very hard to do that. That's a reason there is also no 2.1 to 2.2 converter.
9:36 I agree with adding more animation graphics with walking, running, etc. And the better feel with the character interacting with the environment. But at the same time, the Doom engine (While the srb2 team improving on it) has it's limitations. I'm not saying that it won't be a possibility, but I feel it will be a low priority when making 2.3 and so on.
11:10
Sprite2s/spr2s (they are for in-game sprites) will be removed
sprite flags were going to be replaced with a .json-based animation system akin to .xml files
So spr2s goes bye bye 😮😢
Don't want to be that one guy, but i feel like the development is so complex now, that the game will never be finished
It was always this complex. It was exactly like this in the 2.1 -> 2.2 era
@@robertwyatt3912 except the devs actually showed what they were doing
instead of focusing on finishing the game they want to remake it.
You basically described 80% of all sonic fangames. Way too much ambition; years or even decades in development; either release a new demo or cancel the whole game.
@@emperortoho no they didn’t
5:22
Actually. That ability was just one of our many prototypes. We have multiple different coders doing their own takes on the ability afterall. It just so happened that the ability showcased there in particular was something that some devs wanted to show off. That ability was never confirmed or set in stone internally. The showcase was just simply a dev wanting to share what they've been up to. Though once we saw people's confusion about its supposed complexity and how it fit into the wider game, we decided to hold back revealing indev or conceptual ideas that are not finalized.
Also
11:11
This change in particular is actually something I've wanted for a long while. It lets me make Ultimate Inazuma and silverhorned Inazuma without the need of massively bloating freeslots. XD
>The showcase was just simply a dev wanting to share what they've been up to. Of course the negative attention it got made us realize how bad it is to have open discussions about what we are doing hence why the amount of stuff we discuss or show publicly has drastically decreased. :P
So it really is because you people can't take criticism LMAO
Rude@@Sandwichface
@@sonicloverlol2 it’s true though, the lack of transparency in 2.3’s dev cycle isn’t something any other version of srb2 has, and it’s quite frankly very concerning
developers shouldn’t be afraid of feedback, and if srb2’s devteam refuses to take any criticism i am not hopeful for 2.3 at all
"We feedback we didn't like so we no longer show anything"
Oh 2.3 is gona be great...
I feel like it would be imperative to allow people outside development to give their opinions on what you're working on. Whatever solution is landed on in a vacuum might not work well with most people, and in the hopes of avoiding that I think it might be best to be a bit more transparent.
The thing I’m looking forward to the most is that (rumoured to be easier) new egg rock level layout
Interesting that the two stages that are under consideration for getting the axe are Mystic stages. It’s been amazing watching the game move from one that is so clearly Mystic-led to what is almost a brand new game with a totally different look and feel.
Honestly both of those stages are, no bias here, kinda outdated compared to 2.2’s whole campaign
AGZ is honestly really primitive visually, it uses like, 6 textures and doesnt utilize slopes
ATZ is also the same in a sense and both stages aren’t necessarily the best, so I can see why they would remove them
I think my main problem with the thok isnt that its "difficult to use" or "overpowered". My problem is that it doesnt fit Sonic.
Sonic should be fastest on the ground, and should spend most of the level on his feet. The thok makes it so that he is fastsest in mid-air, and in speedruns, youll spend only 30% of the level on feet.
Like, imagine of tails couldnt fly and instead had a drop dash. Sure, it would be fun and perfectly functional, but it wouldn't fit his character. For that reason, i dont have a probelm with the thok being replaced (although ideally the new replacement should be optional)
i really wish just the changes will be for the better
I don't really think that putting more stages to SRB2 is something that I want, aside from Red Volcano 2+Boss. Having 7 Zones with matching Special Stages adds alot to the overall charm, and more Zones seem like it would just add bloat.
I don't really get wanting to make massive changes at this point either to the engine and design. Those are things I would rather expect a potential Robo Blast 3 to make. I kinda would love it if the new physics, Grand Eggship, Dark City, and unused level design philosophy + gimmicks would be put in a sequel instead. There is probably enough ideas to make it work, rather than replacing what has already been shipped.
And I don't think they need to make everything from scratch, they could make the Bonus Zones (Frozen Hillside, Haunted Heights, Azure Temple etc) into full Zones for a full set of 7. I would be cool with it at least.
Also- I think that fans might just respond better to a sequel rather than overhauling what is already feature complete. There might be more room to be exited over new stuff rather than anxious over changes.
The team could enjoy a comfortable distance when working on their new design, since it would be separate but updated from SRB2. Less burdened to stay within the old lines and player familiarity.
I agree
@@backlogpanicwho said they were making a sequel? They'd have to make a whole fleet of new zones, enemy designs, bosses, music and rtc just to implement ideas that they wanted to see in this game specifically.
@64bitmodels66 The point I was making was more about that the updates Jackalman brings up in the video sounds more like sequel innovations. And that filling SRB2 with more stuff wouldn't add anything necessary. The game already plays well, is content packed, and has a decent length, certainly good for a Sonic game. The work already made for the updates could be put into a distinct follow-up though, and that might be my preference.
@@backlogpanic and i think that's too much work. The game was always planned to have these zones so it should be finished before any sequel discussion gets thrown around. Especially since the game itself getting finished is already something that feels like it's years away, even in current year 5+ years after 2.2
3:50 This kind of movement kinda reminds me of sonic utopia. It would be awesome to have in srb2
The future of SRB2 is us continuing to wait for 2.3
To be honest, the new physics is interesting but it will be significantly less versatile (But the physics involved in making the loop work are pretty amazing)
I've experienced this with another game, but the extremely slow updates may be due to the game's long history, and the development team may unconsciously deify it and be afraid of releasing updates without thinking carefully. They don't want to touch the "legacy"
(ah I can't speak English so use Google Translate. may bad english sry)
0:46
Correction, its THE greatest sonic fangame ever made
Subjective
Any version post the change in soundtrack and addition of "Momentum" aren't even good. Leave momentum in the 90s like Sonic 4 showed us. And the remixed soundtrack may have some decent tracks, but Greenflower act 2 and Egg Rock were completely murdered, and they used to be the best tracks not just in this fangame but the entirety of the Sonic franchise, official or otherwise.
@@genyakozlov1316 Giving Sonic 4 as an example to how this fangame was better in the past is crazy
@@genyakozlov1316 Mate, you say that:
- SA1's original lighting was worse than SADX
- Only good 2D sonic games are 1 and CD, and if you disagree you're not a fan?
And even other bad takes I'm not thinking of rn.
No one should take ANYTHING you say seriously lmao
@@Zerosaber91 yeah lol
UPDATE DAY IS GONNA KILL THE MODS
Thank you good sir, I loved the video ☕
Dude I was gonna make a joke like “haha you think they’re gonna add loops and slopes and ramps” but holy SHIT!!
I would love to see the way spindash is activated changed.I don't want to wait for the game to load automatically, I want to load it myself
CDSonic's spindash isnt automatic but yeah, I agree with you, it should be a option in settings
I'm not going to lie, the momentum changes worry me. It sounds and looks like it's going to adopt a lot of design decisions I personally don't like about most 3D fangames, which to me feel like they're more interested in being physics sandboxes than good platformers.
Good movement is good movement. Current SRB2 still has a lot of control jank, even after the improvements from 2.1 to 2.2
tbh I'd prefer more speed mixed evenly with some platforming, since current srb2 is more platforming rather than speed
Every worry you have is entirely unfounded.
Absolutely, I'm a bit of a purist about it, SRB2 is a Classic Sonic platformer not a pinball simulator nor a boost game.
@@thefurry7165 Outside of the casino levels they were momentum platformers.
Sonic 2 and CD are still considered as two of the best of the franchise.
Sonic Robo Blast 2 is one of the greatest sonic fan games in my humble opinion
they just keep stepping up everytime theres a new version. i never seen team sjr downgrade srb2 at all. they truly know what they are doing
Personally I will agree with the notion of having Sonic be easier to play as, my main issue with this game is the lack of grip and traction these character's have, and I find it more fun to play with the slower characters than tempt fate with Sonic's Thok. And I feel like I cheese levels when I play Tails or Knuckles. Like if Sonic had a stomp or something to make it so correcting your movement and preventing dashing into a hazard with a thok, I'd play as him period, there are certain stages I have trouble believing they're designed for Sonic period, biggest case being the entire endgame minus the boss. If the thok had to stay I feel sonic should have additional tools to compliment and control it.
11:03 i think that just means easier/better sprite animations or smth
got here at 1 minute. insane
Yay! Loops! Makes this fangame even more awesome!
I wouldn't mind aerial garden or azure temple being gone, they were added because of being a contest winner (as far as i remember) desp8te how bad they are. 1 example on 1 of the worst paths in the game, the knuckles path on azure temple has you glide past badniks that give bubble in fou destroy them. The problem is that there is as good as no ground meaning that if you get hit or hit 1 & take a bubble, you drop out of your glide & fall into the bottomless pit, not to mention that these badniks move when you get even somewhat close to them, making it so bad that it's practicly unbeatable, definitely as base knuckles, extremely likely as super knuckles. This means that you pretty much HAVE to get the first bubble shield to cheese your way into the path that everyone else takes as knuckles
GREAT VIDEO!!! As always. Anyway, I don't think Red Volcano should get ANOTHER act. Like, the track sounds good, but RVZ 1 was ALREADY a pain, I don't want another whole act. Besides, not every zone should have two acts and a boss, a bit of variety would be nice. Maybe GEZ and RVZ could have one act where the rest are normal? Also, the "prototype" menu design resembling Mania's looks ugly. I don't like it at all.
What do you MEAN RVZ act 1 is AWESOME
Fun fact: that prototype Mania-esque menu is loosely based on a very unoriginal™ menu design mockup of mine that I posted in the SRB2 Discord Server at one point in 2020
The guy who made that prototype actually approached me in DMs and asked for it's assets to make the prototype, and I sent em to em cause why not
I'd love to actually show it but YT comments hate links now it seems
Man, even for me who already mastered Sonic in SRB2, I don't really like Sonic's Thok, this skill could be much better, even the insta-shield is more useful (at least for me, I never take damage in any Sonic game or mod which has Insta-Shield), an example of what Thok could be like, is in Mystic Realm CE, where Thok is much more useful there.
In fact, Mystic Realm improved many aspects of the base game, or at least in the Beta/Alpha Build that I played (It only works on SRB2 2.2.14 Early Access), they improved some elemental shields.
as long as the thok is something that stays in, (whether it be toggleable, or even a mod to put it back in) ion care what gets added.
Srb2 v2.3 release date please
They really need to rework the game's camera and generally Egg Rock Zone in its entirety. The Metal Sonic race is damn near unplayable.
Meanwhile I'm just patiently waiting for someone to put my boy Bark in the addon roster, one of the last few Classic characters left.
I get people love the thok, but I'd like some kind of addition to Sonic's kit
I never really bother playing sonic in srb2 cause hes kinda, boring by comparison
I go fast sure but a lot of the levels feel super compressed so I can never achieve max speed
7:13 bean mentioned
2:50 and I thought I will never make use of this knowledge
SRB2 feels like Sonic Xtreme ngl
Perpetually unfinished
Waiting for the update as making the zones feel faster like green flower would be awesome
Podrías hacer un video hablando sobre este juego srb2 fang and the mystery manor
Please tell They finally finished the game now
that momentum mod you linked, is not accel-momentum
i love that greenflower
if they dont at least make the thok an unlockable i will be mildly inconvenienced 😤
Tbh I think they should keep the thok but maybe pull a Sonic Mania and have other possible movesets be unlockable through emblems. They could use that to test different ideas. Maybe they could even make the move thats "better for beginner players" only require a single emblem?
I don't really like the direction the game is taking for 2.3.
Can we just finish the levels and remaining stuff before thinking of changing GFZ again and even the physic engine?
I mean it would be like making an entirely different game (or just a remake of itself) instead of a proper update. I feel the same regarding Terraria with the Journey's End update that basically created a soft remaster of itself than a conclusion like 1.3 was.
PS: I also dislike loops in 3D Sonic games, these were obstacles that worked in 2D, in 3D they are merely automated section (that could glitch sometimes) and are a chore to see in third person camera (like in Sonic R) so they pan back to the side to show the loop like in a 2D game (ever since SA1).
I just really want to see Dark City Zone
I've been excited to see that zone since I first played SRB2 as a kid and read the stuff on the website about upcoming zones
Will 2.3 come to mobile?
prolly not right after release but definitely within a few months
@@emperortoho and if Lactozilla and/or bitten2up or anyone else feel like it
I don't think it's the same team, but I'm worried about future updates after what happened with SRB2 Kart EDIT: I guess it is some of the same people
My idea for Sonic's moveset.
Jump (in mid-air): Double Jump (half as high as regular jump, halves momentum, sacrifices speed for precision), Use shield ability.
Spin (in mid-air, while standing or walking): Dive Roll (moves forward at a downward angle, think the dive from Mario 64).
Spin (in mid-air, while running top speed): Thok!
Spin (during thok): Thok-cancel Dive Roll.
They better not change my boi Fang's tailbounce. I could genuinely write a treatise on why the tailbounce is the best ability in the game. Not the most powerful obviously because tails lol, but still the best. Go ahead and change the pop gun tho. If they changed it to act like a pop-jump by default I'd be happy
I don't mind it conceptually, but the pauses between bounces and the weird momentum change when you cancel it mid-air could do with further refinement. Also, he really needs to be able to shoot the Pop Gun in the air.
Personally I'm down for Sonic to spindash up walls from what I'm seeing
That's the only part of the proposed new ability that I like.
Ohh the dilema of video games and having toggles 💀💀 Like why not just have both thok sonic and a new beginner friendly ability
4:27 This new mechanic is so amazing!
I'm gonna miss 2.2 SRB2.. But the next updates gonna be better than 2.2!
What future? They've done basically no work on 2.3 for just about a year now.
Pretty cool that the Thok video got mentioned though. I like the neutral, objective summary you gave of it (even though I'm not particularly proud of how I approached some of it, the follow-up video is better in that regard).
It's like I say, SRB2 2.3 is a mass hysteria. It's easier for Capcom to release Megaman X9 than for STJr to give any news about version 2.3.
I check on this comment after watching this video and see 3 likes, 5 minutes later i see 5 likes
ohh boy, take a bet on how much more thisll get in a few hours
It's like how I don't work on stuff for a while for my SRB2 Mappack and AGZ2 for MRCE.
@@SomeRobIoxDude You do know what Sandwichface has done right? He literally tried to get some hackers to leak private info about the SRB2 Devs, but told the wrong person which eventually led to him getting banned
@@FluppietheRockruffFani do know that im literally just saying im surprised how quickly this comment is getting likes so maybe i worded it wrong in a way that its too vague and im sorry if it was rude
…and it has 20ish likes currently as of commenting so uhhhhh
And also, one more thing, idrk whose side to take on anymore this drama is absolute nuts and im currently just taking no stance on it
Why aren't made sequel? Also sorry, I want Ring Racers on Mobile.
fat chance you're getting ring racers on mobile, I imagine that'd be miserable to play with virtual controls
Nota adam!
Ana hikaye bu halde ilerledikçe kötüleşiyor. Deep Sea 2 ve Egg Rock/Black Core gibi bölümler 2.1 versiyonlarından kopyalanıp yapıştırılmış bölümler, bu yüzden yüksek hız yerine zor platformlara yönelikler. Ve bu oyundaki bölümleri tamamen farklı oyunlardanmış gibi hissettiriyor. Ana hikayenin geliştirilmesi bu yüzden daha iyi olur.
Şunu da unutmamak gerekir, Sonic Team Jr. (Sonic Robo Blast 2'nin yapımcıları) 1996'dan beri iki oyun yaptı. Bunlar da Sonic Robo Blast 1 ve 2. Yani yeni oyun yapmaları düşük bir ihtimal.
i'm gonna get shit for this but the thok sucks ass and i'm sad the new ability was tossed out. i like the idea of a double jump/wall jump/drop dash hybrid and i hope the alternative is at least just as interesting
When the physics get fixed, I'll finally start playing this.
Seems like a skill issue to me, and now you're looking for a reason to not play the game
I’ll just say this now, one thing I’ve wanted ever since I saw it back in OLDC 2020 was Dynamic 2D segments like those in Generations. Whether it be an updated mod or feature in 2.3, I hope it gets added for level designers.
You gotta migrate to Xash3D
isn't xash3D built off goldsrc? it'd probably take even longer to port it to that than finishing the update... probably
It should be reused, sonic's new moveset for a Poodle Charater named Rolli
bro this goes so hard, like they're adding more speed to srb2, mixed with platforming, like how a sonic game should be, speed mixed evenly with platforming, rather than cramped spaces where you can easily bump into walls and loose all your speed and then also the slow platforming sections then and there
The issue is that they are turning SRB2 into a _Modern_ Sonic game where speed is put first.
Cramped spaces where you need more precise jumps has been a thing since the Genesis days because Sonic is about momentum, not speed. Speed was merely the marketing gimmick of the game but in term of game design they wanted you to have speed only as a reward for playing well, not instantaneously.
PS: Check the score attack mode videos because you are quite wrong about "easily bump into walls and loose all your speed and then the slow platforming sections there and there".
@@ikagura I was mostly talking about how speed and platforming should be used together, rather them clashing each other, and the "cramped spaces" I was referring to were mostly the ones in frozen hillside, there can be platforming sections but they don't need to be long and tedious (that disappearing platform section from eggrock 2). Though I'm not sure if they are planning on making the game more speed based rather than a mix of platforming and speed since we only have a few short videos about the new level designs. But tbh I'm fine with a tiny bit of complex platforming as long as it isn't too tedious or annoying. And tbh I like the open world feeling that they are going with tbh
Seems like the development is a financial issue.
How can the development be a financial issue if it is free? I heard the developers can't be paid to work on the game, but money would mainly help the website and servers. Not for working on the game's development.
@@windowpersonSRB2 as per the disclaimer, the devs lose money making the game.
@@derekstryder2281 Probably because of the website and servers for the game.
@@derekstryder2281they lose money by living, not by developing the game specifically
@@robertwyatt3912 by keeping the website up they are losing money
hundreds of gigabytes of data are hosted on the site, it’s expensive to keep that up