I guess T-60 is in the TV show because reinforcements came from the Commonwealth 🤷. Maybe the West Coast Brotherhood discovered a few suits that were being shipped to California pre-war as well.
@@KARGAAN You can still move while out of battery in power armour in 4 and 76, just very slowly. So it's much the same idea, but the power armour is just a heavy metal suit that the user has to move manually, which is fine because the NCR heavy troopers basically only act as guards.
@@dankovskimark4540I don't know about that. The show is set quite a long time after the events of new vegas, and the brotherhood still seems to have the prydwen from fallout 4. They are shown to be moving personnel around with it. Why wouldn't they also move around gear too? It would be weird to not see T-60 in a show that also has the prydwen in.
I've always thought the T-60 is merely an upgraded T-45 to keep up with the T-51, much like how older fighter jets are upgraded to keep up with their more advanced counterparts.
From what I recall, T-45 was the "Oh shit, we need something NOW" power armor. T-51 was supposed to be the top of the line armor, but it was way more expensive. T-60 is what happens when you upgrade T-45 to be closer to T-51 in performance, without the cost. The RL military does this constantly, improving older tech because newer stuff is cost prohibitive.
@@andromidius I would say it is already basically cannon other than in stats. I'm really not sure why Bethesda would make the second best PA in the base game hands down the most common set.
@@andromidius Hate to say it because its a trash game but Fallout 76 Power armor stats and vales make way more since than the Fallout 4 Power Armor Stats. T-51 is better than T-60 in everything but Radiation resistance and T-60 is a good Improvement over every T-45 stat.
A minor correction. According to the lore, all of the NCR's power armor was salvaged after the battle at Helios One. Since only 1 confirmed person in the NCR(I'm strictly talking about New Vegas here) had power armor training(coloner Royez from the long 15), they had to remove most, if not all, of the electronics from the suits, essentially turning them into really heavy metal armor
then explain sierra power armor just outside long 15, it's not the lack of knowledge in the ncr, it's the lack of knowledge within the ncr, it's the lack of specialists within the mojave
@@sqarex2658 It's just not feasable for a regular person to carry that much armor on him without any energy spent, i doubt that part on the back is there for nothing.
@@GrandTonka just like it's impossible for frank horrigan to talk after being torn into two pieces, this is fallout universe my guy. also, in f4 you can do exactly that
So basically, surface level, what we want is: -Fallout 4/76 style and engagement (walking tank) -Fallout 1/2 levels of defense (Critical Hit! 0 Damage) -No fusion cores, go back to teeny fusion reactors that'll last us hundreds of years -Power armour training depends on the model, servos and all that -Yeah yeah yeah, you can paint it -Welcome to Camp Navarro. So you're the new replacement... You're out of uniform, soldier! WHERE IS YOUR POWER ARMOR? Dont have any? You expect me to believe that MAGGOT? The truth is you've lost an expensive piece of ARMY ISSUE EQUIPMENT. AND YOURE GONNA REMAIN IN THIS MANS ARMY UNTIL YOURE 510 YEARS OLD, WHICH IS THE NUMBER OF YEARS IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO PAY OFF A MARK TWO POWER COMBAT ARMOUR, THAT YOU HAVE LOST! Report to the armory and have a new suit issued to you, then report back to me, private! DISMISSED!
@@floridaball4896 Power amour is a reasonable addition but the rest was so unrealistic, the amount of saturated colours and more dumbed down car designs. Look at the classic rusted Fallout cars, even 3 had these intricate and detailed designs considering it was a rusted version of what it once was.
yeah but acessibility means you can actually make builds based around power armor rather then just having them be restricted from the start. and when you start off you barley have any power to have it going and you get the weakest power armor in the game, when you get an x-01 power armor set later in the game it feels so satisfying
To be fair, you could get the best power armor in new vegas, the Advanced Power Armor, by picking up some cuck in freeside, showing him cool stuff, jumping in a hole, and fighting his friend.
I honestly prefer fallout 3/NV's, that style just makes the most sense imo, especially since power armor training was chopped in the games you mention (or so I've heard), so being able to just jump in a smaller suit and rock it makes a bit more sense.
@@wolfgang_h3t Well, the way I see it is that there is logical lore explanations for why both player characters could use power armor without the required training.
I wrote in another video once how to save the T-60 armor: Make the T-60 a post-war armor developed by the East Coast BoS using salvaged Enclave technology from Adams Air Force Base, and remove it from the intro and all Pre-War locations. This shows that the BoS are actively developing new technologies (as implied in the Fallout 1 ending), as well as explaining why only they have this model. It also explains why the T-60 is so aesthetically similar to the T-45, their original armor used in Fallout 3.
I had a similar theory, but that it was a prewar retrofit of the T45 for the purpose of sentry duty. Making the suit heavier and improving optics, making it better for standing sentry with better vision and armor protection than T45 but with less mobility and less advanced armor tech than the T51 which is a better all around suit. While that doesn't translate well to game play, it would satisfy the T60 existence and the T51 being the most advanced mass produced suit
That is basically my head canon for why the T-60 is a thing. It shows that not only is the brotherhood strong , but its growing even more powerful on the east cost. I mean they made the prydwen and have been stated to be producing new vertibirds, so why not make their own original power armor based off the T-45?
@@Destroyer_V0 I can picture the T-60 armor being introduced sometime after the US kicked China out of Alaska. The T-60 suits being deployed in the months after that to help continue the stabilization of the region in order to flush out any remaining Chinese holdouts that failed to evacuate back home.
somthing i think fallout 4 missed out on, is the lack Ports, in fact there is not large shipping port in all of fallout 4. in the fallout 4 art book, it shows large shipping ports with cranes and large railyards. which would make sense. because in the lore boston its set out to be a major navel shipping port. this would also back up your claims on why the T-51 Is in boston.
The art for Fallout 4, while over the top, definitely shows a much more interesting world. But that's the problem with concept art for video games, the art will almost always be better because the artist isn't nearly as limited as the actual game developers.
@@TheOmegaInitiative thats Very True, many things in the fallout 4 art, that would never come to light. however i still feel that there should have been at least one major port on the map.
You can thank the outdated shitty engine Bethesda use in their games. They are supposed to seriously overhaul it for Starfield, hope it's not just another con.
I havent played the game since pre covid but even I can remember there are multiple shipping areas. North of where the BoS had their air balloon where you do the synth recall mission. There’s the massive shipping areas around the area where you do the drug quest and the fort for the minutement. The Norwegian ghouls were on a ship heading for a harbour. There was up way further near the shipping array for the paladin danse mission for the dog tags and tapes. There’s one near the fire raiders area who had the fire sword. Further north near the area around the house to go to far harbour.
9:35 Not only was Nate in the U.S. military, but he was a soldier operating with the 108th Mechanized Infantry at the Battle of Anchorage. Nate had direct experience with soldiers in his unit who were Power Armor operators.
@@boogit9979 how’d you of that stupid? They should make the female character the weakest one who can’t use weapons or power armour? Yea that would go down well
@Skulmaster frankly they should have made the SS a blank slate. The fact that Nora was a lawyer but can have 1 intelligence makes no sense. If the SS family was just some pre war civilian family with no explained careers, it would allow any allocation of special skills to make sense because we don't know what they used to do, but depending on the allocation of special skills we can imagine what they were involved with.
@@Spootprime plus I am sure the fusion core thing is just balance, it seems like the fusion core lasted even till it was taken, and we could assume it was a very used core
To be fair, most of these about the fusion cores is just Bethesda’s way of balancing the game so the player won’t use Power Armor that often. Though they did mess it up by introducing power armor in the early game than the late game.
I think Power Armour training should should work in 3 tiers, untrained: baseline Comes with debuffs like slower move Speed, less AP and more energy drain. Self taught: a perk, should Just be normal Power armor Power armor training: a perk you could get with factions like BoS or enclave, with buffs like energy efficiency and reduced recoil
Oddly enough Fallout 4 power armor has a lot more in common with Fallout 1 and 2 lore and how it functions along with what it talks about in the Old Fallout Bible. Besides how short Fusion cores last pretty much everything about Fallout 4 power armor is actually more Fallout 1-2 lore accurate. If I remember correctly one of the original fallouts if you go straight out of your starting area to a certain base and not die you can almost immediately put on a suit of T-51b power armor if you know were to go. But I do like your Idea. I think if They Re-add S.P.E.C.I.A.L stat buffs and De-buff's that is honestly the best of both worlds and would make it Feel more like a true RPG.
I think that the untrained should be like this. You fumble your reloads, so using small weapons like a hunting rifle is a chore. Using ergonomically bad guns like pipe weapons is even worse. So you'll be a bit forced to use a minigun or some other high ammo capacity gun. It even makes the quad barrel missile launcher worth it despite its weight. Your melee attacks are slow, but very powerful so when you have to reload, you can also just do the raider thing and rush someone while holding a two handed sword with one hand. You can forget about throwing grenades and mines. You cannot run when untrained When you don't have a helmet for aim assist, you will fire every gun from the hip unless you are trained. Now training will remove or reduce these debuffs. Meaning that toward the end of the game you'll be using power armor more and more and are adapting the skills and perks you build up into your skills for the power armor.
I always thought the T-60 should’ve just been a post war power armor created by the brotherhood between Fo3 and Fo4 similar to how the enclave created several suits post war.
Regarding fusion cores, I can imagine cores being a stopgap measure so that the US could field more power armor sooner. While on board reactors certainly have better, practically limitless lifespans, I can see that they may take a while to build, especially in the final months before the Great War. With that in mind, I can imagine fusion cores would work as a temporary measure, allowing more power armor to be fielded (especially in defensive roles where they can have their fusion cores easily topped off and their drawbacks would be less of an issue) before being retrofitted later with a proper reactor. Hell, this could be applied to gameplay. Have fusion cores be the main power source for most of the game and allow one to use power armor sparingly for most of the game. Then, towards the end, you can either find a reactor in a quest (be it side or main, the former possibly allowing sooner access given various factors) and that let's go all in on taking the power armor around.
Wouldn't really explain why the one's on trains have a power core slot still in them and require it to function when they would be shipped out of Boston onto the frontlines, while few would be left behind for defense incase of invasion. While you could argue the ingame time of 10 hours being enough for combat missions to take place and have them returned, it wouldn't make sense to send your troops to the frontline with essentially a limited time until the suit they're in becomes a paper weight. It also wouldn't explain why every single version requires a fusion core, as surely in certain cases, it would be more beneficial for certain areas to have a suit that never needs to recharge incase of emergency situations where a assault could take place, such as Boston, a port city that is actively shipping out weapons, vehicles and armor out to supply their frontline troops. It also wouldn't make sense for places such as the Garrahan(idk if I spelled that correctly) mines to have a limited battery life, if a mine begins to collapse or the suit simply dies whilst the miners are underground, it would make it a lot more difficult to move the ore out although you could argue it was just a prototype. What also wouldn't make sense is why the Secret Service armor required fusion cores, as having a large amount of armor inside a vault that would be sealed for decades would have suits with limited battery life over a reactor that could last hundreds of years, especially in a vault where limited fusion cores could be found and if the cores were to run out, there would be limited ways to resupply them without potentially exposing the vault location
Logistically it does make sense, since the Chinese were almost done with entirety of Alaska by the time US was able to field any power armor troops. But as the other guys said, it still runs into the problem that all power armor in Fo4 and Fo76 functions like those T-45s. So if one wanted a lore friendly application of both concepts, then the T-51 would be THE power armor you could find in late game locations with the only possible avenue of improvement being the BoS engineered and produced T-60. But that again runs into the problem that the BoS that came to Boston was the DC one and they pretty much only had old T-45s to go around and those cheap Enclave knockoffs, since they couldn't even produce their old power armor, so T-60 would either have to go completely or it'd be the last upgrade to the T-45 frame you could get before T-51.
Adding onto that idea! Fusion Cores were mainly used for Power Armor used in low priority postings. Yeah, if you're fighting in Anchorage, you're gonna have a reactor in your T-51. But if all you do is patrol a military base in Boston? Yeah, you get a Fusion Core. No need to waste resources Which explains why all the Power Armor uses Fusion Cores. These are essentially National Guard suits of Power Armor, not designed for prolonged campaigns.
Fallout 4 is set at a timescale of 1:6.67. Any time measured in-game must be put through this formula to get its real time equivalent. So while the fusion core may only last 20 minutes in-game, it actually provides 10 hours of marching time at a brisk pace
That... makes sense. Your able to march from Sanctuary Hills all the way to Atom Cats Garage if you have the right perks, and still have 2% power left. At marching pace, that would be a roughly 10 hour march, accounting for combat. So yeah that works out.
12:55 The thing is that it’s heavily stated that the Enclave has access to far superior technology than the Brotherhood of Steel in fact it’s possible to hear soldiers mention that Enclave weapons could easily pierce any Brotherhood power armor and that’s maybe 10 or so years after the events of fallout 2. So I’d guess it would probably extremely powerful because considering the APA was meant to replace the X-01 which was in testing just before the war. Also it’s very likely that the schematics for the mk II were lost with the destruction of the oil rig and they would have to find a new design.
Good theory about the APA MK2 Actually, this is the best headcanon possible Mine is: Because the lack of visual differences between MK1 and 2, maybe the MK2 wasn't so recognizible, due the only differences are better servo motors and a ceramic alloy for the armor coating Maybe the Oil Rig and Navarro survivors are fitted with some prototypes, and those who wasn't slaughtered by the BoS-NCR alliance, lefted to Raven Rock with the MK2 protos, and the technicians there tried to retroingegnerized the armor, making a less effective MK2, but easier to mass produce, even with Tesla technology ( canonically, tesla coils boosts a TONS of energy weapons resistance, making you almost immune to those damages, besides a critical hit)
@@lukesabaton5469 that makes more sense but it could just be that the survivors left with the mk 1 forcing engineers to reinvent the mk 2 with far less time to do so leading to inferior model being produced
@@PancakemonsterFO4That's exactly the problem. You are forced to fight the Enclave, so they have to weaken them so they're actually killable. They also should have given the Enclave PA higher DR and generally increased powered armor DR, in exchange for many soldiers, Brotherhood and Enclave alike being standard infantry and unarmored.
Okay, take the scene in Fallout 4 where you first get the armor. You go get it, but you're sluggish as hell like you're over-encumbered, but you can still tank everything and shoot the raiders. Then the death claw shows up. Instead of you killing it outright, Preston fires a flare from the balcony, scaring off the death claw like how they worked in Lonesome Road. Then you'd just have to find some way to learn how to use the power armor. Boom, cool moment right off the bat, but you don't get busted stuff right away. (Edit) The male sole survivor point is redundant since it doesn't explain how the female character could know.
9:00 when you get Power Armor training either from the BoS or from the Enclave in New Vegas the opposing fraction is suprised when they want to give you the training but you already have it. I doubt this is a physical limitation but rather a knowledge one since the power armor the NCR salvaged is very inefficient just to bypass the training. The modifications make it easy enough for everyone to use it tho
NCR is more interested in the armor than the power in power armor. They could spend money and time training people to use maintain the armor, or simplify it and get it to the front now.
The NCR power armor has no servos so my interpretation was always that it’s just really heavy steel armor than can take and deflect a lot of hits. We only ever see NCR heavy troopers in static positions guarding officers or entryways.
@@thefrogstronaut also its heavy af since the exoskeleton mechanics don't do the lifting anymore that's why he can't walk as long in it hence guarding the area with miniguns
I always interpreted the Vault Dweller's ability to use power armour to be tied to how the only usable suits being granted to the player after becoming an initiate of the Lost Hills Brotherhood, so it's likely they received some level of training, it's just not specifically stated in game
Another thing to consider is that the fade to black when learning power armor training doesn't have a major time lapse. This implies it's not *that* complicated a skill, just something the wearer needs a quick rundown on.
@@kanrakucheeseit implies nothing other than you need training to use it. Fallout is gritty and strives for goofy post post apocalyptic realism, can you fly a helicopter by quickly reading a manual? Or drive a tank? Or even just drive a car? No. Just because the game does it quickly doesn't mean it would be a quick skill to learn. By making you learn something it's implying it is difficult, otherwise just getting into it and fucking around would be enough to fully get how to use it, which you don't do. Fallout 4 does that though, despite Nate likely being just and infantryman and Nora being a fucking lawyer lmao
23:55 I still wish we got the riot shield and club, along with the first minigun design. I feel like we got robbed of those, even the other variants of secret service armor like the light and medium variants.
In terms of T60 weirdness, it could be a refit of the T45 suit which was planned to start replacing the T45 when the bombs dropped. Would explain the similarities between them
IMO, they're old T-45 suits upgraded to replace more expensive T-51 suits. Quantity over quality. Its cheaper to upgrade old suits than to build top of the line stuff. When you look at it, it really just looks like an up-armored T-45. As well, it was stated in an interview that the T-60 was originally modeled to be the new look of the T-45, but they eventually added it as seperate, because they wanted a new "Icon" for their new game. Im pretty sure it outperforming T-51 is non Canon.
someone else suggested it should be BOS designed and manufactured based on salvaged enclave parts. Pre-war variant seems off putting. Since USA had 45s and 51s.
@@austinhawkins3307 Bethesda just has to make the T-60s a retrofit and it would be perfect hand wave. Video says that armies just upgrade the fuck out of their stock if needed. Best if the T-60 has the best radiation and small arms resistance, while the T-51 is just a "perfect" all rounder that can't go wrong.
@@redline841 The problem is still the power source. We could have the exact power armor Fallout universe has, but we simply do not have a powerful enough, but compact power source to put into the suits. And that's the main difference between T-45s and T-51s. T-51, from a single man's standpoint, functions indefinitely, while T-45s used the same energy cells energy weapons used and had to be constantly "reloaded". So just making T-45 tougher doesn't solve anything, because the most important and costly thing in a T-51 is still the integrated reactor. T-60 as a retrofit of T-45 does make sense, if you have a short supply chain, like in a city for riot control, but it makes zero logistical sense on the frontline, tens or probably hundreds of kilometers away from the closest place a soldier would be able to resupply their microfusion cells/fusion cores (if you were to agree the old lore and the Bethesda lore, they'd be the same item). So the possible price of T-51s doesn't really matter here, because that's the only PA that they could use to bring the fight to the Chinese, as T-45s merely, finally, allowed the US to hold the line against Chinese right as they almost completely conquered Alaska.
interesting thing is, in 76 the T-60 is actually *worse* than the T-51, X-01, and Ultracite (which is a modification on the T-51) in regards to energy and ballistic damage reduction. *However*, it is cheaper to repair, so taking everything into account, this theory is correct.
22:25 Equipment which technically was added to WV canonically as well as having been used by the few human riot officers overseeing the robots handling the Automation riots of the Ash Heap region.
@@TheOmegaInitiative Actually atom shop items can be dubbed canonical via bethesda’s actions in the world building in 76. We do find notes and holotapes mentioning riot officers overseeing the robots and we know the ranger armor started off as riot gear canonically and appears in several states. Thus given the ranger’s outfit in this game sporting CPD for the Charleston Police Department, it can easily be argued that these same officers overseeing the operations did in fact use said outfits.
@@hiddendesire3076 I'd think that'd reason more to atom shop items only being canonical if other lore references it, not atom shop items in general being canonical. I don't know anything about what's being discussed, just that the correlation doesn't seem right to me.
My head canon justification for Nora being familiar with weapons and military equipment was that she was originally in the army. Maybe even that’s where her and Nate met. She did her time and went to law school on the government’s dime while Nate went career soldier.
Well originally it was actually planned for Nora to be a veteran too and there are voice lines indicating as such in the files that are unused. My guess is they went with her being a lawyer later on to make them different??? I dunno, ask Bethesda I guess.
I think Nora was a military lawyer, and 1. because as part of the military she had to go basic training with Power armor and 2. she had to be proficient with power armor to be able to defend the government in power-armor related lawsuits (i.e. veterans complaining the armor hurt them chronically etc).
I like that idea, but when you approach the Constitution and the robot scans you, they conscript you into the army as Nora, but they recognise Nate as a veteran.
I'd like to reiterate my point that I believe that the ballistic damage reduction Effect for the hellcat power armour is due to an active protection system. This seems likely due to the strange protrusions on the chest possibly being pods for a hard kill system or some sort of electronic soft kill system. As active protection systems are common on modern tanks with systems such as trophy it's not out of the question the fallout universe developed them for power armour
@@redhood7650 Also the news anchor in Fallout 4 says the HellCats are giving China hell in the pacific it’s probably a portable submarine type thing kinda like how power armor is a portable tank
The Hellcats motto, "Mors Mare Ex", means "Death From The Sea". They're definitely submarine capable, probably much more so than other power armor variants.
For the Fusion Core, they should of made it explaining the aux functions or V.A.T.S requires more charge to compute while in power armor so it draws from the Fusion Core
Yep 100% but i think it would of been cooler if the aux power system used up fusion cores and they let you put more themed stuff on you like you could activate the telsa coil that arcs off foes but it uses alot of charge. Or a wrist mounted scatter laser for when you need to be your own backup and need to shotgun a stubborn ghoul.
Fusion cores need a much higher max capacity but all cores you find have like 5-10% power left unless you make a new one entirely both to give progression and to make sense
There's also the Chinese Power Armor, which is currently worn by Red Army Remnants in West Virginia. It's existence was vaguely hinted at in New Vegas with the Pulse Gun, but was only formally introduced in 76.
@@vsarachnos5414 You can buy the skin whenever it’s available in the Atomic Shop, but i guess since we see those enemy NPCs using it I think it’s safe to say that in the lore they have their own power armour and it’s not just some non-canon skin
1:50 There's another reason, in the first two fallout games you could rarely get to a place unless it was a recognisable big place or had the coordinates. Small places were very hard to find while passing through the desert. There might have been more power armors lying around but nearly impossible to be found due to the vastness of the desert.
I always thought that Power Armor Training was put in place so the Lone Wanderer doesn't get end-game gear in the first hour due to looting it off of a dead paladin and New Vegas didn't remove it for the same reason.
it probably was just put there as balancing for the player to not be able to get end game stuff at the starts and them they gave a lore(probably retcon since 1 and 2 dosen't need training) reason for that limitation, tbh i don't like power training as i mechanic, if they ever add it back i would rather it be something your character learns passively instead of needing a faction or npc to teach you
Power Armor Training seems to be so you dont lock up the servos or something about moving in it. I think in Fallout 4 case, they could of been produced so the regular solider could wear it and use it instead of being trained to move.
@@szymonbollin5074 100 percent agree, being able to use PA straight off the bat kinda ruins it for me. They could've done it with FO76, have the PA training be a part of the army training quest (can't remember the name it's been so long since I did it).
7:15 Yeah this one of the reasons I use a mod that makes fusion cores limitless again with some changes. Gatling Lasers use normal Fusion Cells, Fusion cores are more expensive and they're not used as ammo. Makes more sense this way as most Fusion cores in buildings save a few are kind of tricky to get. They're insanely expensive, one can cost up to 16,000 caps, so in a way they're used for powering certain other items such as generators and power armor exclusively.
I feel like if Bethesda snorts lore cocaine or something in the future, they should make it where there are two different Fusion Cores, Civilian Cores that are not meant for Power Armor and would leak heavy amounts of energy and Military Cores where those are the everlasting kind of ones, perhaps you can even have it where that those ones would have some more plates and protection in the back since you don't need to swap it out and so that you can enjoy not having your fusion core blowing up.
@@Predator20357 They better start overdosing that Fallout lore since they share same parent company as Obsidian. Yes some of FO NV crew has left but still I don't see it immerse issue.
23:40 I mean I know it is the Secret Service PA, but it always bothered me that no one sent into the reactor to repair it was wearing PA or radiation suits. You’d think they would’ve outfitted their own secret service better than that. Now admittedly you could say the suits were damaged by this point or something, but still, that never made sense to me.
As far as I know, they never actually made any of the suits inside the vault. I mean, look at how they THOUGHT things would go. They thought the government would show up, let them out of the vault, and America would start up again. 20 something years pass, and nobody has shown up. They planned for the best case scenario, and the worst case happened.
@@austinhawkins3307 Lets see, I think it was 25 years when vault 76 opened, 26 for Wastlanders, 27 for the BoS arrival, 27 1/2 for end of Steel Dawn, marking the years since the bomb drop mind you.
The T-65 is never seen in game as it was left as a project only, it was never built, you can't found it in game, the only way to get it is by crafting it yourself based off the plans you can buy at the vault, all though it's questionable why they didn't build it then. Maybe unavailability of resources or something.
@@The_Soviet_Cat_2233 I find it extremely unlikely that it wasn't built. The Secret Service agents we see aren't wearing any of their gear except for the underarmour, which is common in 76, it for years after the games came out all the Brotherhood corpses didn't even have power armour pieces, they were just wearing empty frames. It's clearly just a gameplay purpose that we have to but plans for it, because obviously, it would be impossible for one person to build the suit like we do in game. Vault 79 also definitely would not be short on resources, they were a vault to hold the entirety of America's gold reserve, when vault already cost hundreds of millions, they would probably throw an extra few to have proper power armour suits.
90% of the complications can be chalked up to Bethesda just going wild with power armor and not considering the gameplay or lore ramifications of doing so. No wonder the East has more power armor than the West. Although you can try justify it with speculation, the most realistic reason is that Bethesda simply puts tons more of it in their games. It’s less of a rare end game armor set, and more just tossed around as Fallout imagery because it looks cool and it’s powerful.
It's because power armor actually had a purpose for builds now. Every other game just made them armors with really high numbers and that's it 4 made it so you can actually make it a build to play with and not the final skin to have on like 3 did with the stealth armor
@@hunterblue7816 still, you could have added another armor purpose to it instead of power armor, it supposed to be THE armor, not shit you get at the start.
@@jh047ono you couldn't as again, it's now a build. Adding literally any other suit of armor wouldn't make sense. Power armor was never special, it was always just big numbers. It worked with just about any build from rifleman to melee to even sneak. Now it doesn't and that's why they let you make a build around it from the start.
@@hunterblue7816 “power armor was never special, just big numbers.” It was special because of those big numbers, and also being incredibly rare. It’s as simple as that. Your looking at “special” through the lens of only what Bethesda did with 4s armor, when making power armor the best and rarest armor in the game can also make it “special”.
My head canon for inferior Enclave armor from 3 onward was due to the destruction of the oil rig in FO2. In FO2, the Enclave were literally the secret service surrounding the president, they definitely had the best while the rest had to make due.. Heck their cadets used T-51Bs. After Oil rig is gone, the advanced plans and advanced materials were lost. And so they had to make do with whatever they can produce. Hence their "black devil armor" looks more metallic reminiscent of the original T-45.
That said Enclave SHOULD have bases all over the world and more than one such president in case of an emergency. Like the closest that we know off is in Chicago. Bethesda basically threw the idea away and the Control Station Enclave was the biggest Enclave base period. Everything else are basically irrelevant outposts for people who couldn't get to the oil rig in time.
@@LecherousLizardJudging by the Gecko plant's connection to Control Station ENCLAVE, it's probable that all these bases were connected on a network, and that Richardson was the POTUS to the entire Enclave.
@@LecherousLizard I'd go with the idea that the other Enclave branches just faded away and got absorbed into the local populations since (bar 76) every game takes place well over 80 years after the war. It would be difficult to keep people caring about the faction's ideals two or three generations down the line after minimal or no contact from the leaders, especially when the beliefs are centered around something that died before you were ever born. Main branch would only survive ideologically due to direct control by fanatics.
@@kanrakucheese Yeah, not really. At a basic level Enclave allows a set number of individuals to have complete control over their personnel. It wouldn't just "fade away" unless: 1. There was a serious riot and most of the personnel just walked out or 2. Somebody less than stellar in their belief ended up being the local leader and just disbanded the chapter. This much is mirrored by vaults, where every vault that could, stayed closed indefinitely. Those few that could, but didn't ended up with their overseers being shot by an angry mob and then everybody gtfo'd outside.
Probably because the raider pieces aren't properly sealed. Radiation resistance isn't just about putting enough sheer *mass* in place to stop radiation from getting through to the armour's wearer, but also about sealing the gaps *between* the armour pieces to keep radioactive dust, dirt, and liquids out of the suit, as well as properly filtering the occupant's air so they're not inhaling radioactive particulates. So while a raider could easily produce an armour piece with the same *weight* as a normal power armour piece, they're not going to be as good at properly sealing up the cracks, joints, and crevices *between* those pieces. Ergo, the raider armour plates will probably have a lower *overall* radiation resistance rating, even if they're the same weight as, say, a set of T-45, T-60, or T-51 armour plates.
T-60 is my favorite PA in terms of appearance. I've always preferred the T-45/T-60 helmet vs the T-51B and X-01 helmets. And I love that the T-60 is just a more compact and slimmer version of the T-45. The PA that comes close for me is APA which is a slimmer version of X-01.
The APA is my favourite, but the X-01 is one of my least favourite. I don't much like the look of the Fallout 4 style, the legs especially are just so weird. It works for the T-51 and the T-60, but all the other ones just look too fat.
It always baffles me why people try to find lore reasonings for engine limitations. Art direction and what is actually feasible are two different things
I get it, but Bethesda not doing power armour right because they can't be bothered to improve their engine or other technical aspects of their games naturally has fans searching for lore explanations to preserve immersion and continuity.
My personal headcannon for Nora being able to use to use power armor is that Nora was also in the army, thats where she met Nate, but Nate when career in the army, she got HD and went to law school. So this is how she can shoot, use power armor and everything else so effectively. She is also from the military, just for a shorter period than Nate. Nate is quite the high ranking member of the military, he was gonna have a speech in Funeil Hall too, the guy was no low ranking soldier, at minimum Nate was a captain or even a major. Nora was likely a sargeant or maybe a NCO
1. Sergeant IS a NCO 2. Nate was scheduled to give a speech in Veteran’s Hall in a PR event to support the funding for veterans, it wasn’t such a big event as you suggest 3. Given the clues we got, it is unlikely Nate was an officer, much less a high-ranking one. All points to the fact that he was a grunt, maybe a NCO
@@annoyance.2583 1- My bad, Im not even American 2- Still a speech and still you dont want to call your low hung soldiers for that, preferably you call an unit commander, even more preferably a unit commander with accolades, like participating in the successful battle of Anchorage 3- Actually no, he was a high-ish rank official at minimum, he had a pretty comfy house and was a condecorated soldier in a extremely militarized and chaotic society of pre-war America, also they had a Corvega sports car, not the most expensive in the world, but still pretty expensive, since both Nate and Nora were talking about taking strolls jn the park on Saturday, while not everybody works on a Saturday, the pre war America was current America but far worse, so many people were either leaving paycheck to paycheck or not even that that today's economics looks sustainable near them, so not working on a Saturday is pretty big sign of financial stability not afforded to your average grunt, even more because people were enlisting in droves too
I definitely love the fallout 4 style of power armor way more than the other ones. It actually feel like "power armor" and you feel like a walking tank when you're using it.
Yeah, but you're not supposed to be a walking tank in it. PA is just supposed to be powered combat armor. It's supposed to make you a weapons platform so you can carry heavy weapons like they're small-arms Fat-mans, miniguns, Missile launchers, etc.
@@kj_heichou bruh, it's literally called "power armor" the lore states that it can take at least one tank round point blank. It's meant to make you feel like you're unstoppable, and it does that well.
@@potatoguy7929 Yah, it should LOOK like something Big and Bulky to explain how it could handle a Tank Round (most likely HE Tank Round), the human sized armor of 3 and NV looks like it could barely handle a 50 Caliber bullet which is why 1 and 2 are bulky and big.
I like how the show has done it, the frame mech suit type design is still there, and so are the fusion cores, but the fusion cores last MUCH longer as we see Maximus using it for days. The training is also sort of there but not 100% needed, as maximus didn't have any training but could still use it, just not well.
@@The_mrbob i know he says that in he video but they still don't last as long as in the show. It's only a couple hours as apposed to the few days that Maximus has the suit
From a lot of supplemental bandaid lore fixes BGS has released (most of which should have been around as early as FO4 but eh, at least it actually happened), here's the gist of some of the weirder power armor stats and lore: -T-60 is a reinforced, upgraded version of T-45 due to T-51 being way too expensive and difficult to mass produce. It's basically just making the T-45 plates thicker and adding some QoL internal mechanical upgrades, and it's supposed to be slower than T-51 but gets the job done. The transition of the T-45s into T-60s just started right before the war so most T-45s never got the upgrade. -APA Mk2 armor is supposed to be an extremely mobile power armor capable of mobility, flexibility, and speed of a non-power infantry soldier with T-45 levels of protection, which is actually a crazy good compromise that reaches an amazing balance of speed and defense. However, this makes it less effective when used against other power infantry due to other power armor models being more protective and not really caring much for mobility, making it unfairly good against non-powered enemies but painfully mediocre vs opposing power infantry. It's great for quick operations, raids, and skirmishes but less so for direct, prolonged combat. -Hellfire armor is basically the APA Mk3, the pinnacle of power armor technology which integrates the mobility o the APA Mk2 and the massive protection of the APA Mk1. It's implied in Lonesome Road that this is the result of perfected Duraframe plating as the resources to reinforce the eyebots with it was redirected to the Hellfire production. So it's implied that the suit is a huge mass of advanced Duraframe plates. -APA Mk1 is a "heavy PA" of the Enclave armors, being the slower but way more durable counterpart to the MK2. The Mk1 and Mk2 are technically supposed to be used in tandem with each other for different roles, both being different types of upgrades to the T-51 but hyper focusing on either defense or mobility, not both. -X-01 is technically the APA Mk0, being the experimental pre-war state of what would become the APA series armors. Weirdly enough, this is the only power armor that has its roles and limitations expressed in gameplay, as it was nonsensically resource-hungry to produce and maintain to the point where it was only ever really good for promotional purposes like with Nuka World crossovers since mass producing them was stupid even in pre-war times, but the public didn't know this and it could be used as a big, shiny, "hey we're making more cool stuff" symbol. The Enclave took many years to turn this into the APA series armors since engineering this thing to a more affordable state while maintaining its protection was a bitch to do. -Hellcat armor is just a suit of whatever model power armor was issued to the Hellcat Armored Brigade, which they then customized to look like how it does. The Hellcats are mentioned in the pre-war segment of FO4 in the news, so they are a surviving military unit who just liked making their power armor look cool but not really any more effective.
Congrats, you made the whole thing make sense. Regarding the Hellcat PA, historically soldiers had a habit of doing upgrades which made them feel better, but in reality actually didn't. WW2 tankers liked to put sandbags, spare roadwheels, etc. on the tank glacis, even though it wore out the transmission faster and offered no additional protection, so I can see it work in the same way. Now... What's with T-65? A quickly uparmoured T-51 to serve as a stopgap model until something comes from X-01 (from pre-war perspective)? But I agree that this mess could've been much less annoying had Bethesda not been Bethesda. Kinda reminds me of Soviet tank development: First you start with T-54/T-55 tank, very basic and practically WW2 tech. Then you have it slightly upgraded (upgunned, really), thus becoming the T-62 tank. In the meantime, you have design work on T-64 tank, which is a highly advanced model. Then on the basis of T-64, the T-72 is developed as a war mobilisation model, but with bare minimum of the new tech to be as cheap as possible, as a replacement for T-54/T-55/T-62. Thus T-64 and it's own direct upgrade, the T-80, is kept with guards/elite units only. Though, admittedly, the Soviet tank development still makes more sense than Fallout power armour mess.
Don't forget that you can pull out the fusion core to trap users inside...at least according to the TV show. ...did that even happen in the games? Like in Fallout 4 or Fallout 76 if your fusion core ran out was your character just trapped inside of the suit?
@@wisemage0if the core runs out in game you aren't kicked from the armour, it just becomes a massive burden, bringing your walk speed to a crawl and removing your ability to sprint. I think there's some other debuffs, but you get the idea
My opinion on power armor training is that power armor is essentially like operating a forklift or some other heavy machinery. Someone can teach themselves but in 3 and NV when you join up to get your power armor you are given on the job training to operate it
There's another instance of a fusion core's operational life being mentioned in Fallout 4: SSG Michael Daly's log. His power armor is on the roof of the museum of freedom, abandoned approximately 3 days after the bombs fell due to his fusion core burning out.
I actually like to think the power armor exoskeleton retcon helps to build a grounded reason for power armor training. It's not just a massive suit of armor, it's an entire piece of hardware and technology that requires indepth understanding to properly wield.
I'm one of those weirdos who sacrifice my long-term effectiveness for the sake of lore lol. When upgrading PA in F4 I never go past their designations from previous games. Like example, I will only ever upgrade a T-51 suit to be T-51b, but I will never upgrade it to a higher designation, similar with T-45, I will never upgrade it past T-45d. Sure it may gimp my overall effectiveness later on once I reach higher levels, but I don't care lol. My only exceptions are T-60 and X-01, as those armour's never had designations in previous games, so I just kinda pick a random letter above D for T-60. For X-01 I'll go up all the way to max power.
That’s one thing I absolutely love about FO4, power armor feels like an advanced piece of mobile armor instead of an outfit . I would like to see more items on the hub in future games however. Mods in FO3/NV perfected the hud in PA, I had weather, storm notifications and needs monitoring, I miss those days.
Nexus mods has you covered for Fallout 4 with fusion core drain with a mod called "Balaned Fusion Core Drain", which really makes fusion cores work the way they should have in the base game.
@@gmradio2436 a game design choice that makes no sense in Bethesda established lore. Its like they created new lore but Bethesda themselves won't follow it.
@@normaaliihminen722 You are losing me. If this was a debate of fusion reactor powered power armor, I could see that, but this is Fallout's third soft reboot. Please explain clearly your issue with the lore so I know what soft recon to talk about.
Before Fallout 4 was out I assumed the T-60 suit was an upgraded version of the T-45. An easy, respectable change of the lore to be "The Eastern Brotherhood upgraded their T-45 units by modifying them after the defeat of the Enclave, using the large quantities of X-02 suits they had at their disposal."
My favourite suit is Ashur’s (from the Pitt) or the quantum suit (from Nuka-World) Ashur’s is just cool, much like the Divide power armour but (imo) cooler. And Quantum just has a nice colour 😂
Austin from the Game Theory series The Science! (and also Shoddycast) did some math regarding the longevity, and lack thereof, of fusion cores. The math was interesting.
So someone sat down and crunched the numbers for the Fusion cores. and they found a specific radioactive element that had an appropriate half life and power output to make it so that it would make sense to use it in a high draw item like power armor, but be nearly depleted at the 200 years post war that Fallout 4 takes place. so the Fusion cores ARE the micro fusion reactors that would last hundreds of years, but it's not dependent on them being used for hundreds of years, it's just the fuel runs it's self out over time, used or not. And when you get them in FO4, the high draw Power Armors drain the internal storage in minutes, and the little nuclear fuel remaining wouldn't refill the power fast enough to be of use.
My own pet fan theories: • On power armor frames: The Boston/Virginia versions were the older ones, the original models that required frames but are far easier to repair and refit; so the brotherhood adopted them after finding them sometime after leaving DC. Also explains why non-military sites like Nuka-World would have an X01 suit that uses a frame, the frame system is the PA prototype and testing concept. (DC, being the capital, got the good shit that was new and didn't require frames). • On fusion cores: I've heard this one elsewhere, I like the idea that the cores are chargeable "batteries" instead of one-time limited use fusion reactors. Or are full on fusion reactors, but don't have either the fuel storage or fuel generation capabilities of the stationary generators. So they run down, but are nominally easily recharged(and that bit is forgotten knowledge). Also explains why buildings work fine *without* the core.
Bethesda missed an opportunity to make t45 and t60 brotherhood creations. T45 was a cheaper less effective substitute for their damaged t51 armor during the events of FO3. After defeating the super mutants and enclave the east coast brotherhood had time and resources to really refine and improve the design into t60.
The great video although here are some things to consider about t-51b in Appalachia. It's more likely that the abundance of it comes from the military units in the area and not from the remnants from DC. We know that taggerty's thunder was performing war games with several Marine divisions in the area after coming back from the front lines and that these war games would determine different missions preferences in the upcoming offensive into China so it's more than likely that the thunder and the Marine divisions probably had suits of t51 power armor if they have come back from the front lines. We also know that taggerty wanted to recruit only from military personnel either current serving or past serving so it's more than likely any remaining military units in the area would have joined the Brotherhood of Steel bringing their suits of t51 we can confirm this by the corpses of fallen Brotherhood of Steel members and power armor are all using the t-51 model. Another potential explanation for all the power armor within Appalachia could be explained by the key assets located within the region such as white springs, westtech, vault 79, arktos, etc. We also know that they had companies such as Grafton steel mill working on military products as well.
Game Theory did a video on the fusion cores, and he noted that the cores were in lore mentioned (in Fallout 1) to last around 200 years. His math said that the hydrogen fuel in the cell would be on their last legs at the start of Fallout 4, so @10 hours of use (depending on activity) was considered plausible.
I love the inclusion of a frame in F4, however I think it would have been good to have PA limit and extend abilities, like in PA you can't use pistols, big fingers. However heavy weapons can be used un encumbered. In old fallout games some weapons had strength limits, this should have been left and PA could remove this. F4 made weapons bigger so in PA weapons would appear appropriate, so if some weapons were incompatible with PA that problem could be solved. Lastly too much PA is in game F4, especially x01
I've always just headcanon'd that the armor in Fallout 4 (Especially the T60) are all on the *FRAME* of the T-45, specifically the variant that chewed through Microfusion Cells (Now Fusion Core) too much to be reliable. Like putting better armor on the Chassis of an old school Jeep
Excellent video man and I agree Nate is more than likely the sole survivor. Not just the power Armor training being Canon or whatever but mostly the fact that he is the one that did the intro.. they would have recorded different intros for both if not. When it comes to Power Armor training I tried to explain to someone that that's what a retcon is, that becomes the new canon. And let's be honest it makes sense, it's an advanced piece of military equipment that weighs a literal crap ton and is powered by a fusion power source, along with dangerous hydraulics and servo motors, yeah training seems quite realistic. However retcons are nothing new, Bethesda did that with the Nuka-Cola bottles (They never used to be rocket shaped but now that is canon) and a bunch of other stuff I can make a list. Either way requiring training for power armor use became canon as of Fallout 3, one can receive power armor training after joining the Brotherhood of Steel, this is needed to complete the main quest line regardless. And they didn't want people to be able to get power armor at the GNR. And not only does this retcon exist on the East Coast but it extends to the West Coast as well because Fallout 3 wasn't the only game to have it. As in Fallout New Vegas power armor training is also required to wear power armor. This time it comes in the form of a perk called "power armor training" that can only be unlocked after completing either "Still in the Dark" for the Brotherhood of Steel or as a part "For Auld Lang Syne", with the Enclave remnants and Arcade Gannon. Again this retcon would technically make it so power armor that was being worn during the events of Fallout 1 and 2 would need training in order to wear during the events of Fallout New Vegas. Also during those early games besides you and your companions the only people that were really wearing power armor were either The Enclave or the Brotherhood of Steel. Both of which had military training. Now for playability reasons over the history of the history of Fallout we have seen exemptions to this as some characters do not require power armor training to wear power armor. This mostly being companions, again this is done for playability reasons not lore. In Fallout 1 and 2, there was no power armor training. But the only groups that you could get power armor from more or less were military factions that most likely did indeed train soldiers to use power armor. However this was not introduced into lore until Fallout 3, as I don't think it was seen as that big of a deal back then. The fact of acquiring T-45 power armor very early on in the game at the GNR is one reason for them doing this. But as I mentioned above it would make sense that one would need some training to use power armor efficiently and safely. It is extremely heavy equipment and has a lot of dangerous moving parts like servo motors and hydraulics, and all of them are powered with fusion energy technology (whether it be fusion cores or microfusion cells like in the older games you are basically wearing a nuclear reactor... Should have at least a little bit of training about the operation of the suit). But yeah even in games where this is solid canon we have seen playabilities work arounds. Like Charon for example the ghoul companion can wear power armor the second that his contract is acquired from Underworld City. Unless he was a member of the military before the Great War I doubt he received power armor training, but it is possible. But for playability reasons in Fallout 3, All humanoid companions can wear power armor without training (this obviously excludes companions like Fawkes, Dogmeat and RL-3) Similarly in New Vegas all humanoid companions can wear power armor without training. Again all this was done with playability of the game specifically in mind. That way you could have your characters in the best armor possible even if for example, they wouldn't be able to join the Brotherhood or Enclave because of NPC karma level or their species. They did the same thing for Fallout 4 and Nora in my opinion. While on paper in Fallout 4 one does not need power armor training to operate it, retcon/canon wise one would still need it in my opinion. In Fallout 4, we get the new edition of seeing raider groups and the Atom Cats using power armor. I bet even these raiders have to train in their power armor. Though we haven't seen one I do assume there are quite a few instructional booklets or holotapes around. Regardless a large group of raiders/anyone can do it through trial and error, meaning for example they could have 10 guys either die or mutilate themselves but at the end of it they would understand how to train people in its use properly (very similar scenario of trying to launch a rocket into space, tons of death, failure and learning followed by eventual success). It would be insanely hard for Nora or anyone to do it all on their own. One mess up and that's it. But yeah even if power armor training wasn't required for Nora which I'm 99% sure it still would be. Still more evidence points towards Nate being the canon Sole Survivor. Again the bigger thing is it would have been her doing the intro otherwise not him. "The year is 2077. We stand on the brink of total war, and I am afraid. For myself, for my wife, for my infant son. Because if my time in the Army taught me one thing, it's that war, war never changes." ~Nate
- T45 First power armor, Started use during resource war. Most common, cause they wanted TONS of the stuff! - T51 Second power armor, Used to finish resource war. Still lots since it was the main go to, and they had time and resources to pump out these bad boys! No major design flaws. - T60 Had a bunch of T45 laying around after the creation of T51, so we took improvements from T51 and made T45 better. That took time (which there wasn't a lot of before the boom) and resources (which were getting thin) so not a ton made it out there, but the T45s would have eventually all just been replaced by these... eventually. - T65... not sure on this one, pretty sure not cannon... or at most would have been blue prints in concept only pre-war. Might have been the blue prints for what the American government was going to reveal as the next step to power armor... but no suit would have existed. - X01 design built to replace T51, but expensive, and only for use by shadow government. While a handful of blue prints made it around to various contractors in secret to make "proof of concept" models, very few ever actually existed pre-war... any that did, never saw service. Also there would have been HUGE material cost to create them and designs would not have been refined to allow mass production, or contained flaws that would have ended with a lot of wear and tear, further increasing rarity, or any chance of coming across one. - Hellfire proto-type... possibly blue print concept to allow survival in radiation or extreme fire conditions (possible the enclave believed this would be a major issue pre-war). No actual suit was made, but my theory is the zax had a copy of the blue prints shipped which allowed it to make a set. This would also mean the facility would have to have some secret armor producing capabilities, but not out of the realm of possibility. - Advaced power armor, took a lot of deaths, but they finally made an X01 that was semi-mass produce-able. Though not in large quantities, and would require huge investment to make. Obviously the best! - Advance Power armor MK 2, Lost a lot of production power, not as many resources, but still need to mass produce enough to armor all the troops! Not as good, but we can still crank them out! Accounts for the drop in quality from the MK1, but still allows Enclave access to a power armor. - Hellfire... Well pre-war Enclave were kinda right... fire is in a lot of areas, so having extra fire protection is important. Blue-prints worked on until a practical post-war version could be produced. - Excavator... there are five suits total that exist... maybe a few people found them and made more, but with lack of production capabilities... doubt it. - Raider... Deserters from the military that eventually took their knowledge of how to use power armor and used it to form gangs... knowledge passed down from leader to leader. Also using low ranking members of gang to try it out until either they die, or get it... - Hellcat ... not cannon I guess? Or possibly an actual mercenary company? Honestly don't have a clue... looks cool but terrible idea from a lore perspective.
My headcanon for Nora knowing how to use power armor is simple. She was a member of the army's JAG team. (JAG is the militaries legal team essentially) So she could be knowledgeable of how they work and such, perhaps she had training on it as well? Either way it is my head canon explanation.
about the T45 power armor in DC, iirc the BoS when arrived and set their base at the Pentagon, they found a lot of T-45 there. There was a conversation or terminal log about it
I remember a mission in FO tactics where you were sent to an old military base to retrieve a stock pile of fusion core batteries. I know that game isn't exactly canon but some of the dialog might shed light on what the old canon was for them.
8:05 - Nope, this actually makes sense about how degraded the fusion cares are by Fallout 4's time. Shoddycast actually did the math (so much math) about how much energy could possibly be in a fusion core and how long it would last. Turns out that the fusion cores would likely last only about 60 days past the start day of Fallout 4 because they were that degraded. He cites his sources and math as to how he came to the conclusion. And guess what? The lifetime matches up with Fallout 1 saying how long that they would last. So someone at Bethesda either got very, *_very_* lucky with that or they actually did their homework. Knowing Bethesda, I'm guessing lucky. Video here: /watch?v=bA76-cixf-s
Bethesda didn't own Fallout before 3, it was Black Isle entertainment (who later mostly shifted to Obsidian, aka FNV devs). Definitely more inclined to do their homework, that lot!
@@ravensflockmate "Nope still stupid" It matches not only with the science of what could be theoretically possible, but also the lore of Fallout 1. "they could have avoided by just not giving you power armor at the start" ...And how would that solve anything about power cores? Changing WHEN they let you have access to power armor (and, by the way, it's Fallout - you can just exit the Vault and go and ignore the main quest for 93 hours and meet Preston in X-01 power armor with a Gatling Laser - your argument is meaningless) does nothing about how it works...
On fusion core history, at the top of the concord museum (fallout 4), there is a holotape where a US solder's holotape was drained shortly after the bombs dropped.
One weird thing about X-01 is that nuka cola corp. got access to one and just put it on display, absolutely ignoring the fact that it exposes a military secret for the whole world to see.
I prefer the fallout 4 style of power armor. But the fusion core time is ridiculous. It should last MUCH longer than a few minutes, If not infinite, I dont care if it's OP, Or for gameplay balance, I don't see the point of power armor losing it's charge when the charge should last for centuries.
Because of the time difference between real time and time passed in game, the fusion cores really last for multiple hours, and not being infinite can easily be chalked up to inefficient power usage and the fusion cores having their charge decayed after 200 years
Worth noting that the '-b' or '-d' suffixes in fallout 4 are obtainable by upgrading your armour to the models of that letter. For example a T-51-b is simply a T-51 model B. Bethesda is definately saying power armour alwats had a frame. Which not only feels better from a gameplay perspective but also makes more sense as power armour.
T45: Flawed proof of concept. Better then most conventional body armor, but suffered from major design flaws that would be fixed in the T51 T51: The best of the best of Pre-War armor. Fixes all the problems of the T45, and a lot of the tech developed for this suit would be applied to alternative models that would be built after the Liberation of Anchorage. T60: Modernized upgrade of the T45. Whilst not as durable or as light as T51, T60 is far easier to build and maintain, and serves as a more ecenomically viable alternative for the National Guard whilst implementing a lot of the fixes that the T51 incorperated when the US Army began to phase out the T45. X01: An extremly experimental prototype suit developed by the Pre-War Enclave before the bombs fell. Most of its design features would be incorperated into the APA Power Armor over 100 years later. T65: Takes the best elements from T60 and T51 for a suit to be used by the US Secret Service. Far to expensive to be delopyed for the army, but fits all the requirements that the CIA and/or US Secret Service need in Power Armor. Hellcat: Probably a Pre-War Army prototype that would go on to inspire the X01 Power Armor in its design and construction ideas. A lot of overlap in its design features between T51 and X01 Power Armor. Could see this armor's official designation being something like 'X00' to elaborate on this. Prototype Hellfire: Another Pre-War Enclave armor prototype that was beta tested in secret, but would never see active use until around 200 years later with finalzied versions of the Enclave Hellfire armor. X02: A cheaper alternative to APA armor. Much like how the T60 is inferior to T51, this armor must've been cheaper and easier for the Enclave to mass produce and repair in comparison to their APA suits.
None of this can survive the notion of bethesda simply making a new power armor every few months just to have people buy from the atom shop. Absolutely no regard for lore was taken into account. Nuka Cola pre-war X-01.
I always laugh a bit when I see people expect every new Fallout game to only use the T-45 and Enclave armors. You really think the AMERICAN MILITARY wouldn’t spend billions of dollars to develop, invent, and build multiple models of power armor? Just look at how many tank variants existed during WW2.
You can go further than that. Tanks are one thing, but the US had 9 classes of battleships ALONE, not even considering cruisers, destroyers, aircraft carriers, submarines, and support ships. All of which are vastly more expensive than tanks
20:47 West Virginia also boasts a military training camp who was running exercises pre-war and seemingly with PA as we saw with the poor soldier in the trailer who saw the bombs fall. We also have the Government Bunker and Vault 79. I think I recall something about senators having been provided a suit (can’t recall which type) to get them to the bunker in the event of an emergency and i’d assume their bodyguards would also get a set. Also we do see a number of military freight trains (judging by the crates) that sport partial sets of PA.
Easily the best retcon in the series is how power armor actually works. I was never a fan of how in 3 and NV it just looked like cooler looking armor but didn't feel like "power" armor. Now it feels like your a tank and it looks like it too.
My personal headcanon for Fusion Core's is that they are required for faster movement while in them. The onboard reactor's are still there, and kick in when the fusion core runs out, allowing the person to still move, albeit slowly, and get out of the suit from inside, as well as still allowing aid in dampening recoil and lifting heavier objects and stuff.
If you play as the male character, yes. But if you play as the female character, it wouldn't make sense for her to have the training as she's a lawyer.
Using Power Armor in Fo3 when I first obtained it felt so- underwelming, but the moment I set eyes on the Power Armor in Fallout 4, I- was already jumping in my seat, and god, the feeling of being a near invincible soldier built out of Pre-War training and equipment was so badass.
Say what you will, but I definitely prefer the FO4/FO76 depiction of Power Armor. It matches the description better and necessary impact PA would need to have in order to have the kind of influence it's stated to in the lore. It also makes more sense as a piece of military equipment vs. the "Keep it in a pocket in your sweater" style from older games. Even the removal of training needed to use it makes more sense for it's role; for the way and numbers it's supposed to be used in lore, you can't have it being this massively complicated machine that takes tons of training to even use at a basic level if it's essentially supposed to be infantry standard/common equipment. Now having training to make proper FULL use of it or specialized features makes sense - but locking you completely out of using PA, one of the most iconic images of Fallout, simply because you don't have training ruins both it's lore usefulness and gameplay usefulness.
Regarding Fallout 2 PA training - it was planned to be a thing in Fo2 too, there is an in-game item called Technical Manual that would teach you how to use/maintain PA. The idea of training for PA goes as far as Fallout 1, where you'd get trained by the BoS as a part of quest line or you could get the manual by killing everyone and looting the storeroom (which also contains PA). But in both cases the idea was scrapped as PA is, in many ways, gated behind high level already (and I am aware of the Navarro runs but that is more of an exploit than how most people play Fallout 2). It appeared in Fo3 and New Vegas as it is much easier to get a hold of PA in these games (I mean in Fo3 you can get it in the early stages of the main quest by picking it off the dead bodies of Paladins and knights defending GNR and in FNV you can find dead squads in places like near Nellis/Boomers etc).
Great video topic if there was a new suit of PA created Post War what faction do you think should have it and what abilities do you think it should have? In my mind Mr House could create two version of a H-Infinity suit where one is designed to act as a mobile life support system for himself with weapons and defences to counter any threat in the wasteland as a final layer of defence & a H-Lucky as a stranded model for his human workers that has a built in teleporter and matter converter to act as a module suit that can adapt to any situation that House has programmed into it.
@@redhood7650 That sounds interesting, if he did manage to obtain that what do you think he would do next and how would he control locations when he sends out ships to the stars, place a teleport system on each plant in a stargate network?
Personally, I feel like when it comes to power armor frames vs training it would make more sense to explain it as there are two types of power armor. First would be the current type, with frames that don't require training, and the second would be the frameless versions that do the same job of increasing strength and providing radiation resistance, but armor so tight by comparison that you need training on how to properly wear it, and since it's a full set, it wouldn't be customizable like the frames. The power armor in Fallout 4 is also noticeably less durable, since it can break down in one or two big gunfights, as opposed to the frameless version, which is seen to have a higher durability, but seemingly lower defense while it is intact.
You said the underarmor would remedy that the armor is conductive, but that makes a Farraday cage so it would shield you from incoming electricity. I always imagined the emergeny protocols and medic pump works through the underarmor
about the fusion core, lore wise, i think it makes some amount of sense that you would need a core for it to work, since they've been used for way over a hundred years and by now, the pack would have completely stopped working
I guess T-60 is in the TV show because reinforcements came from the Commonwealth 🤷. Maybe the West Coast Brotherhood discovered a few suits that were being shipped to California pre-war as well.
What are your thoughts on NCR Salvaged power armor. How does that work with the frames and extended arms and legs of the mechs?
@@KARGAAN You can still move while out of battery in power armour in 4 and 76, just very slowly. So it's much the same idea, but the power armour is just a heavy metal suit that the user has to move manually, which is fine because the NCR heavy troopers basically only act as guards.
Nah, just bad writing.
@@TheOmegaInitiative That makes sense.
@@dankovskimark4540I don't know about that. The show is set quite a long time after the events of new vegas, and the brotherhood still seems to have the prydwen from fallout 4. They are shown to be moving personnel around with it. Why wouldn't they also move around gear too? It would be weird to not see T-60 in a show that also has the prydwen in.
My favorite part of Fallout 4's fusion cores are how you take them out generators and the building's still powered.
i've always believed the buildings are just running off reserve power after taking the core
@@SillyAmoeba what reserve power? The generator itself would be the reserve power if the main power grid went down.
@@KuonilerariLoufanwald 🤓
@@KuonilerariLoufanwald 🤓
Ah yes, it wouldn't be a youtube comment section without mindless inflammatory responses
I've always thought the T-60 is merely an upgraded T-45 to keep up with the T-51, much like how older fighter jets are upgraded to keep up with their more advanced counterparts.
Exactly, call it a stop-gap armor, adjust in game stats, and it should be fine.
From what I recall, T-45 was the "Oh shit, we need something NOW" power armor. T-51 was supposed to be the top of the line armor, but it was way more expensive. T-60 is what happens when you upgrade T-45 to be closer to T-51 in performance, without the cost. The RL military does this constantly, improving older tech because newer stuff is cost prohibitive.
Isn't this basically canon? And it makes sense, since T-45 is 'common' there's plenty of suits to upgrade.
@@andromidius I would say it is already basically cannon other than in stats. I'm really not sure why Bethesda would make the second best PA in the base game hands down the most common set.
@@andromidius Hate to say it because its a trash game but Fallout 76 Power armor stats and vales make way more since than the Fallout 4 Power Armor Stats. T-51 is better than T-60 in everything but Radiation resistance and T-60 is a good Improvement over every T-45 stat.
A minor correction. According to the lore, all of the NCR's power armor was salvaged after the battle at Helios One. Since only 1 confirmed person in the NCR(I'm strictly talking about New Vegas here) had power armor training(coloner Royez from the long 15), they had to remove most, if not all, of the electronics from the suits, essentially turning them into really heavy metal armor
then explain sierra power armor just outside long 15, it's not the lack of knowledge in the ncr, it's the lack of knowledge within the ncr, it's the lack of specialists within the mojave
Isn't the NCR salvaged armor powered by hydraulics instead of a reactor though? I assume because of the engine looking thing in the back of the armor
@@GrandTonka it doesn't offer any bonuses like normal PA does so no
@@sqarex2658 It's just not feasable for a regular person to carry that much armor on him without any energy spent, i doubt that part on the back is there for nothing.
@@GrandTonka just like it's impossible for frank horrigan to talk after being torn into two pieces, this is fallout universe my guy. also, in f4 you can do exactly that
So basically, surface level, what we want is:
-Fallout 4/76 style and engagement (walking tank)
-Fallout 1/2 levels of defense (Critical Hit! 0 Damage)
-No fusion cores, go back to teeny fusion reactors that'll last us hundreds of years
-Power armour training depends on the model, servos and all that
-Yeah yeah yeah, you can paint it
-Welcome to Camp Navarro. So you're the new replacement... You're out of uniform, soldier! WHERE IS YOUR POWER ARMOR? Dont have any? You expect me to believe that MAGGOT? The truth is you've lost an expensive piece of ARMY ISSUE EQUIPMENT. AND YOURE GONNA REMAIN IN THIS MANS ARMY UNTIL YOURE 510 YEARS OLD, WHICH IS THE NUMBER OF YEARS IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO PAY OFF A MARK TWO POWER COMBAT ARMOUR, THAT YOU HAVE LOST! Report to the armory and have a new suit issued to you, then report back to me, private! DISMISSED!
No one wants 4/76 style it’s awful? You’re clearly a child
4/76 seems good because it doesn't feel very right to put on a 45 weight armor then walk like in casual wear
@@truelies9187 I prefer the older titles and I like what they did with power armor in 4/76 even if I don't like the games
@@truelies9187 cry
@@floridaball4896 Power amour is a reasonable addition but the rest was so unrealistic, the amount of saturated colours and more dumbed down car designs. Look at the classic rusted Fallout cars, even 3 had these intricate and detailed designs considering it was a rusted version of what it once was.
I do like how the power armour looks bulky and actually powerful in fallout 4 but it feels so cheap because of how easily it can be aquired
yeah but acessibility means you can actually make builds based around power armor rather then just having them be restricted from the start. and when you start off you barley have any power to have it going and you get the weakest power armor in the game, when you get an x-01 power armor set later in the game it feels so satisfying
To be fair, you could get the best power armor in new vegas, the Advanced Power Armor, by picking up some cuck in freeside, showing him cool stuff, jumping in a hole, and fighting his friend.
Not just how easy it is to acquire, but also how power cells drain in what feels like an instant, making the PA largely worthless in the early game.
That's Bethesda's Fallout for you: if it takes ONE step in the right direction, it immediately take another two backwards
Pain train enthusiasts unite
One thing I'll give 4 and 76 is they made the powerarmor size wise about as big(a little bigger but slightly) as it was in 1 and 2.
Yet the proportions are off.
I think the suits are a bit to big.
I honestly prefer fallout 3/NV's, that style just makes the most sense imo, especially since power armor training was chopped in the games you mention (or so I've heard), so being able to just jump in a smaller suit and rock it makes a bit more sense.
@@wolfgang_h3t Well, the way I see it is that there is logical lore explanations for why both player characters could use power armor without the required training.
@@wolfgang_h3t I prefer 4’s honestly cause it fits with how 1 and 2’s looked. Power armor is supposed to be a substitute for tanks I’m pretty sure tho
I wrote in another video once how to save the T-60 armor:
Make the T-60 a post-war armor developed by the East Coast BoS using salvaged Enclave technology from Adams Air Force Base, and remove it from the intro and all Pre-War locations. This shows that the BoS are actively developing new technologies (as implied in the Fallout 1 ending), as well as explaining why only they have this model. It also explains why the T-60 is so aesthetically similar to the T-45, their original armor used in Fallout 3.
I had a similar theory, but that it was a prewar retrofit of the T45 for the purpose of sentry duty. Making the suit heavier and improving optics, making it better for standing sentry with better vision and armor protection than T45 but with less mobility and less advanced armor tech than the T51 which is a better all around suit. While that doesn't translate well to game play, it would satisfy the T60 existence and the T51 being the most advanced mass produced suit
That is basically my head canon for why the T-60 is a thing. It shows that not only is the brotherhood strong , but its growing even more powerful on the east cost. I mean they made the prydwen and have been stated to be producing new vertibirds, so why not make their own original power armor based off the T-45?
@@mr.oddball. For the longest time, this is more or less what I thought. BOS brings T60 to boston... even though the intro has soldiers wearing it.
@@Destroyer_V0 I can picture the T-60 armor being introduced sometime after the US kicked China out of Alaska. The T-60 suits being deployed in the months after that to help continue the stabilization of the region in order to flush out any remaining Chinese holdouts that failed to evacuate back home.
They still do it in 3 although also in implications such as the development of Recon armor mk2
somthing i think fallout 4 missed out on, is the lack Ports, in fact there is not large shipping port in all of fallout 4. in the fallout 4 art book, it shows large shipping ports with cranes and large railyards. which would make sense. because in the lore boston its set out to be a major navel shipping port. this would also back up your claims on why the T-51 Is in boston.
The art for Fallout 4, while over the top, definitely shows a much more interesting world. But that's the problem with concept art for video games, the art will almost always be better because the artist isn't nearly as limited as the actual game developers.
@@TheOmegaInitiative thats Very True, many things in the fallout 4 art, that would never come to light. however i still feel that there should have been at least one major port on the map.
It would look stupid if the cranes and gantries were loading moments before the gate entered the terminal.
You can thank the outdated shitty engine Bethesda use in their games.
They are supposed to seriously overhaul it for Starfield, hope it's not just another con.
I havent played the game since pre covid but even I can remember there are multiple shipping areas. North of where the BoS had their air balloon where you do the synth recall mission. There’s the massive shipping areas around the area where you do the drug quest and the fort for the minutement. The Norwegian ghouls were on a ship heading for a harbour. There was up way further near the shipping array for the paladin danse mission for the dog tags and tapes. There’s one near the fire raiders area who had the fire sword. Further north near the area around the house to go to far harbour.
9:35
Not only was Nate in the U.S. military, but he was a soldier operating with the 108th Mechanized Infantry at the Battle of Anchorage. Nate had direct experience with soldiers in his unit who were Power Armor operators.
Now explain the female chars reasoning
@Lightspace because Female PC is likely not cannon so it doesnt matter duhh
That's cool and all, but in Fallout 4 any Tom, Dick, and Harry can use any set of PA laying around with a fusion core in it.
@@boogit9979 how’d you of that stupid? They should make the female character the weakest one who can’t use weapons or power armour? Yea that would go down well
@Skulmaster frankly they should have made the SS a blank slate. The fact that Nora was a lawyer but can have 1 intelligence makes no sense. If the SS family was just some pre war civilian family with no explained careers, it would allow any allocation of special skills to make sense because we don't know what they used to do, but depending on the allocation of special skills we can imagine what they were involved with.
The fusion cores for armor is wild. This little core can power entire vaults but shits itself in an iron man suit in 30 mins
While it is a dumb comparison
With the Arc reactor Tony first made he said it could power something for 70 years or something big for 30 minutes
@@orionriftclan2727 Yeah, you could just blame it on poor optimization. People REALLY want something to get mad at, yeh?
@@Spootprime plus I am sure the fusion core thing is just balance, it seems like the fusion core lasted even till it was taken, and we could assume it was a very used core
To be fair, most of these about the fusion cores is just Bethesda’s way of balancing the game so the player won’t use Power Armor that often. Though they did mess it up by introducing power armor in the early game than the late game.
The cores were powering buildings for centuries though
I think Power Armour training should should work in 3 tiers, untrained: baseline
Comes with debuffs like slower move Speed, less AP and more energy drain.
Self taught: a perk, should Just be normal Power armor
Power armor training: a perk you could get with factions like BoS or enclave, with buffs like energy efficiency and reduced recoil
*bonus strength to compensate for its weigth
I actually really like that idea.
Oddly enough Fallout 4 power armor has a lot more in common with Fallout 1 and 2 lore and how it functions along with what it talks about in the Old Fallout Bible. Besides how short Fusion cores last pretty much everything about Fallout 4 power armor is actually more Fallout 1-2 lore accurate.
If I remember correctly one of the original fallouts if you go straight out of your starting area to a certain base and not die you can almost immediately put on a suit of T-51b power armor if you know were to go.
But I do like your Idea. I think if They Re-add S.P.E.C.I.A.L stat buffs and De-buff's that is honestly the best of both worlds and would make it Feel more like a true RPG.
I think that the untrained should be like this.
You fumble your reloads, so using small weapons like a hunting rifle is a chore. Using ergonomically bad guns like pipe weapons is even worse.
So you'll be a bit forced to use a minigun or some other high ammo capacity gun. It even makes the quad barrel missile launcher worth it despite its weight.
Your melee attacks are slow, but very powerful so when you have to reload, you can also just do the raider thing and rush someone while holding a two handed sword with one hand.
You can forget about throwing grenades and mines.
You cannot run when untrained
When you don't have a helmet for aim assist, you will fire every gun from the hip unless you are trained.
Now training will remove or reduce these debuffs.
Meaning that toward the end of the game you'll be using power armor more and more and are adapting the skills and perks you build up into your skills for the power armor.
Energy efficiency? They have fusion reactors they can last a century.
"I am not a sir! I work for a living you mo-ron! You will call me Sergeant or Sergeant Dornan do you understand me? "
@John Broadwell man too angry to die
"Sure, Sarge whatever"
@@zacoman2225 If I liked you then you can call me Sarge. But guess what maggot? *I DO NOT LIKE YOU!*
If I like you. can call me sarge. BUT GUESS WHAT I DO LIKE YOU!
I always thought the T-60 should’ve just been a post war power armor created by the brotherhood between Fo3 and Fo4 similar to how the enclave created several suits post war.
Regarding fusion cores, I can imagine cores being a stopgap measure so that the US could field more power armor sooner. While on board reactors certainly have better, practically limitless lifespans, I can see that they may take a while to build, especially in the final months before the Great War. With that in mind, I can imagine fusion cores would work as a temporary measure, allowing more power armor to be fielded (especially in defensive roles where they can have their fusion cores easily topped off and their drawbacks would be less of an issue) before being retrofitted later with a proper reactor.
Hell, this could be applied to gameplay. Have fusion cores be the main power source for most of the game and allow one to use power armor sparingly for most of the game. Then, towards the end, you can either find a reactor in a quest (be it side or main, the former possibly allowing sooner access given various factors) and that let's go all in on taking the power armor around.
Wouldn't really explain why the one's on trains have a power core slot still in them and require it to function when they would be shipped out of Boston onto the frontlines, while few would be left behind for defense incase of invasion. While you could argue the ingame time of 10 hours being enough for combat missions to take place and have them returned, it wouldn't make sense to send your troops to the frontline with essentially a limited time until the suit they're in becomes a paper weight. It also wouldn't explain why every single version requires a fusion core, as surely in certain cases, it would be more beneficial for certain areas to have a suit that never needs to recharge incase of emergency situations where a assault could take place, such as Boston, a port city that is actively shipping out weapons, vehicles and armor out to supply their frontline troops. It also wouldn't make sense for places such as the Garrahan(idk if I spelled that correctly) mines to have a limited battery life, if a mine begins to collapse or the suit simply dies whilst the miners are underground, it would make it a lot more difficult to move the ore out although you could argue it was just a prototype. What also wouldn't make sense is why the Secret Service armor required fusion cores, as having a large amount of armor inside a vault that would be sealed for decades would have suits with limited battery life over a reactor that could last hundreds of years, especially in a vault where limited fusion cores could be found and if the cores were to run out, there would be limited ways to resupply them without potentially exposing the vault location
Logistically it does make sense, since the Chinese were almost done with entirety of Alaska by the time US was able to field any power armor troops.
But as the other guys said, it still runs into the problem that all power armor in Fo4 and Fo76 functions like those T-45s.
So if one wanted a lore friendly application of both concepts, then the T-51 would be THE power armor you could find in late game locations with the only possible avenue of improvement being the BoS engineered and produced T-60. But that again runs into the problem that the BoS that came to Boston was the DC one and they pretty much only had old T-45s to go around and those cheap Enclave knockoffs, since they couldn't even produce their old power armor, so T-60 would either have to go completely or it'd be the last upgrade to the T-45 frame you could get before T-51.
The thing is power cores were good for a couple hundred years but it’s been 220 years. They’re on their last legs
^This
Adding onto that idea!
Fusion Cores were mainly used for Power Armor used in low priority postings. Yeah, if you're fighting in Anchorage, you're gonna have a reactor in your T-51. But if all you do is patrol a military base in Boston? Yeah, you get a Fusion Core. No need to waste resources
Which explains why all the Power Armor uses Fusion Cores. These are essentially National Guard suits of Power Armor, not designed for prolonged campaigns.
Fallout 4 is set at a timescale of 1:6.67. Any time measured in-game must be put through this formula to get its real time equivalent. So while the fusion core may only last 20 minutes in-game, it actually provides 10 hours of marching time at a brisk pace
How do you do that?
@@normaaliihminen722math
That... makes sense. Your able to march from Sanctuary Hills all the way to Atom Cats Garage if you have the right perks, and still have 2% power left. At marching pace, that would be a roughly 10 hour march, accounting for combat. So yeah that works out.
So that means a pipe rifle has the firerate of a minigun. Gotcha.
@@LecherousLizardNobody said it would be perfect
12:55 The thing is that it’s heavily stated that the Enclave has access to far superior technology than the Brotherhood of Steel in fact it’s possible to hear soldiers mention that Enclave weapons could easily pierce any Brotherhood power armor and that’s maybe 10 or so years after the events of fallout 2. So I’d guess it would probably extremely powerful because considering the APA was meant to replace the X-01 which was in testing just before the war. Also it’s very likely that the schematics for the mk II were lost with the destruction of the oil rig and they would have to find a new design.
Good theory about the APA MK2
Actually, this is the best headcanon possible
Mine is:
Because the lack of visual differences between MK1 and 2, maybe the MK2 wasn't so recognizible, due the only differences are better servo motors and a ceramic alloy for the armor coating
Maybe the Oil Rig and Navarro survivors are fitted with some prototypes, and those who wasn't slaughtered by the BoS-NCR alliance, lefted to Raven Rock with the MK2 protos, and the technicians there tried to retroingegnerized the armor, making a less effective MK2, but easier to mass produce, even with Tesla technology ( canonically, tesla coils boosts a TONS of energy weapons resistance, making you almost immune to those damages, besides a critical hit)
@@lukesabaton5469 that makes more sense but it could just be that the survivors left with the mk 1 forcing engineers to reinvent the mk 2 with far less time to do so leading to inferior model being produced
but then fallout 3 came along turning the enclave into stormtroopers since you might not be up to the challenge of fighting them
I hope there isnt a mod giving fallout 3 some fallout 4 stuff like how the power armor works, otherwise the enclave would be nigh impossible to kill
@@PancakemonsterFO4That's exactly the problem. You are forced to fight the Enclave, so they have to weaken them so they're actually killable. They also should have given the Enclave PA higher DR and generally increased powered armor DR, in exchange for many soldiers, Brotherhood and Enclave alike being standard infantry and unarmored.
Okay, take the scene in Fallout 4 where you first get the armor. You go get it, but you're sluggish as hell like you're over-encumbered, but you can still tank everything and shoot the raiders. Then the death claw shows up. Instead of you killing it outright, Preston fires a flare from the balcony, scaring off the death claw like how they worked in Lonesome Road. Then you'd just have to find some way to learn how to use the power armor. Boom, cool moment right off the bat, but you don't get busted stuff right away.
(Edit)
The male sole survivor point is redundant since it doesn't explain how the female character could know.
Best suggestion so far
It would make some players salty they don't get to fight the the massive lizard
It's only busted if you're playing on easy.
@@MatNotMatt I think it would make it more fun to then fight the death deathclaw later
@@caedenmolloy where would you fight him tho?
Where is your Power Armor!
It got retconned!
Go to the Armory and learn how to use it!
LOL
9:00 when you get Power Armor training either from the BoS or from the Enclave in New Vegas the opposing fraction is suprised when they want to give you the training but you already have it. I doubt this is a physical limitation but rather a knowledge one since the power armor the NCR salvaged is very inefficient just to bypass the training. The modifications make it easy enough for everyone to use it tho
The NCR rips out the servos they're kinda dumb but at least they're not like the legion.
NCR is more interested in the armor than the power in power armor. They could spend money and time training people to use maintain the armor, or simplify it and get it to the front now.
The NCR power armor has no servos so my interpretation was always that it’s just really heavy steel armor than can take and deflect a lot of hits. We only ever see NCR heavy troopers in static positions guarding officers or entryways.
@@thefrogstronaut also its heavy af since the exoskeleton mechanics don't do the lifting anymore that's why he can't walk as long in it hence guarding the area with miniguns
I always interpreted the Vault Dweller's ability to use power armour to be tied to how the only usable suits being granted to the player after becoming an initiate of the Lost Hills Brotherhood, so it's likely they received some level of training, it's just not specifically stated in game
Another thing to consider is that the fade to black when learning power armor training doesn't have a major time lapse. This implies it's not *that* complicated a skill, just something the wearer needs a quick rundown on.
@@kanrakucheeseit implies nothing other than you need training to use it. Fallout is gritty and strives for goofy post post apocalyptic realism, can you fly a helicopter by quickly reading a manual? Or drive a tank? Or even just drive a car? No. Just because the game does it quickly doesn't mean it would be a quick skill to learn. By making you learn something it's implying it is difficult, otherwise just getting into it and fucking around would be enough to fully get how to use it, which you don't do. Fallout 4 does that though, despite Nate likely being just and infantryman and Nora being a fucking lawyer lmao
in new vegas when you are given remnant armor, one of the remnants say that it only requires a couple of hours to learn how to use it@@Jiub_SN
23:55 I still wish we got the riot shield and club, along with the first minigun design. I feel like we got robbed of those, even the other variants of secret service armor like the light and medium variants.
The helmet looked pretty sick for the medium Secret Service armour
The cattle prod can be considered a bootleg, lamely-named version of the riot club but the loss of the shield is heartbreaking.
In terms of T60 weirdness, it could be a refit of the T45 suit which was planned to start replacing the T45 when the bombs dropped. Would explain the similarities between them
IMO, they're old T-45 suits upgraded to replace more expensive T-51 suits. Quantity over quality. Its cheaper to upgrade old suits than to build top of the line stuff. When you look at it, it really just looks like an up-armored T-45.
As well, it was stated in an interview that the T-60 was originally modeled to be the new look of the T-45, but they eventually added it as seperate, because they wanted a new "Icon" for their new game. Im pretty sure it outperforming T-51 is non Canon.
someone else suggested it should be BOS designed and manufactured based on salvaged enclave parts. Pre-war variant seems off putting. Since USA had 45s and 51s.
@@austinhawkins3307
Bethesda just has to make the T-60s a retrofit and it would be perfect hand wave. Video says that armies just upgrade the fuck out of their stock if needed. Best if the T-60 has the best radiation and small arms resistance, while the T-51 is just a "perfect" all rounder that can't go wrong.
@@redline841 The problem is still the power source.
We could have the exact power armor Fallout universe has, but we simply do not have a powerful enough, but compact power source to put into the suits.
And that's the main difference between T-45s and T-51s. T-51, from a single man's standpoint, functions indefinitely, while T-45s used the same energy cells energy weapons used and had to be constantly "reloaded". So just making T-45 tougher doesn't solve anything, because the most important and costly thing in a T-51 is still the integrated reactor.
T-60 as a retrofit of T-45 does make sense, if you have a short supply chain, like in a city for riot control, but it makes zero logistical sense on the frontline, tens or probably hundreds of kilometers away from the closest place a soldier would be able to resupply their microfusion cells/fusion cores (if you were to agree the old lore and the Bethesda lore, they'd be the same item).
So the possible price of T-51s doesn't really matter here, because that's the only PA that they could use to bring the fight to the Chinese, as T-45s merely, finally, allowed the US to hold the line against Chinese right as they almost completely conquered Alaska.
interesting thing is, in 76 the T-60 is actually *worse* than the T-51, X-01, and Ultracite (which is a modification on the T-51) in regards to energy and ballistic damage reduction.
*However*, it is cheaper to repair, so taking everything into account, this theory is correct.
22:25 Equipment which technically was added to WV canonically as well as having been used by the few human riot officers overseeing the robots handling the Automation riots of the Ash Heap region.
It's not canon because it's only accessible through the atomic shop
@@TheOmegaInitiative Actually atom shop items can be dubbed canonical via bethesda’s actions in the world building in 76. We do find notes and holotapes mentioning riot officers overseeing the robots and we know the ranger armor started off as riot gear canonically and appears in several states. Thus given the ranger’s outfit in this game sporting CPD for the Charleston Police Department, it can easily be argued that these same officers overseeing the operations did in fact use said outfits.
@@hiddendesire3076 I'd think that'd reason more to atom shop items only being canonical if other lore references it, not atom shop items in general being canonical.
I don't know anything about what's being discussed, just that the correlation doesn't seem right to me.
As a classic fallout fan who grew up playing 1, 2 and tactics
I really love how you tied the interplay and bethesda universes into one coherent lore
My head canon justification for Nora being familiar with weapons and military equipment was that she was originally in the army. Maybe even that’s where her and Nate met. She did her time and went to law school on the government’s dime while Nate went career soldier.
Yeah she mentions to a few people in the game that she was in the military so she knows her way around weapons and armor
Well originally it was actually planned for Nora to be a veteran too and there are voice lines indicating as such in the files that are unused. My guess is they went with her being a lawyer later on to make them different??? I dunno, ask Bethesda I guess.
@@scottmemelord6130Could have split the difference and made her JAG
I think Nora was a military lawyer, and 1. because as part of the military she had to go basic training with Power armor and 2. she had to be proficient with power armor to be able to defend the government in power-armor related lawsuits (i.e. veterans complaining the armor hurt them chronically etc).
I like that idea, but when you approach the Constitution and the robot scans you, they conscript you into the army as Nora, but they recognise Nate as a veteran.
I'd like to reiterate my point that I believe that the ballistic damage reduction
Effect for the hellcat power armour is due to an active protection system. This seems likely due to the strange protrusions on the chest possibly being pods for a hard kill system or some sort of electronic soft kill system. As active protection systems are common on modern tanks with systems such as trophy it's not out of the question the fallout universe developed them for power armour
There is another theory regarding hellcat power armour being repurposed underwater power armour,which explains those tubes on it
@@redhood7650 Also the news anchor in Fallout 4 says the HellCats are giving China hell in the pacific it’s probably a portable submarine type thing kinda like how power armor is a portable tank
The Hellcats motto, "Mors Mare Ex", means "Death From The Sea". They're definitely submarine capable, probably much more so than other power armor variants.
For the Fusion Core, they should of made it explaining the aux functions or V.A.T.S requires more charge to compute while in power armor so it draws from the Fusion Core
Fusion cores need to last way longer in my opinion
Yep 100% but i think it would of been cooler if the aux power system used up fusion cores and they let you put more themed stuff on you like you could activate the telsa coil that arcs off foes but it uses alot of charge.
Or a wrist mounted scatter laser for when you need to be your own backup and need to shotgun a stubborn ghoul.
could change it over to a steam engine
@@Subject_Keter sounds good
Fusion cores need a much higher max capacity but all cores you find have like 5-10% power left unless you make a new one entirely both to give progression and to make sense
There's also the Chinese Power Armor, which is currently worn by Red Army Remnants in West Virginia. It's existence was vaguely hinted at in New Vegas with the Pulse Gun, but was only formally introduced in 76.
I think that suit is just a skin, there is no player set
@@vsarachnos5414 You can buy the skin whenever it’s available in the Atomic Shop, but i guess since we see those enemy NPCs using it I think it’s safe to say that in the lore they have their own power armour and it’s not just some non-canon skin
Where are they on the map
1:50
There's another reason, in the first two fallout games you could rarely get to a place unless it was a recognisable big place or had the coordinates. Small places were very hard to find while passing through the desert. There might have been more power armors lying around but nearly impossible to be found due to the vastness of the desert.
I always thought that Power Armor Training was put in place so the Lone Wanderer doesn't get end-game gear in the first hour due to looting it off of a dead paladin and New Vegas didn't remove it for the same reason.
Same
it probably was just put there as balancing for the player to not be able to get end game stuff at the starts and them they gave a lore(probably retcon since 1 and 2 dosen't need training) reason for that limitation, tbh i don't like power training as i mechanic, if they ever add it back i would rather it be something your character learns passively instead of needing a faction or npc to teach you
Power Armor Training seems to be so you dont lock up the servos or something about moving in it. I think in Fallout 4 case, they could of been produced so the regular solider could wear it and use it instead of being trained to move.
Power Armour Training needs to return in my opinion but it should be a skill that simply makes power armour better
@@szymonbollin5074 100 percent agree, being able to use PA straight off the bat kinda ruins it for me.
They could've done it with FO76, have the PA training be a part of the army training quest (can't remember the name it's been so long since I did it).
I think that the male SS is already trained due to being military. Female I dont have an explanation
@@cru-say3990 I thought that aswell but I don't think every soldier had PA training, it's a big possibility though.
@@cru-say3990 maybe only the male SS is Canon. The female SS could just be for gameplay reasons so players have more options in Character creation
7:15 Yeah this one of the reasons I use a mod that makes fusion cores limitless again with some changes. Gatling Lasers use normal Fusion Cells, Fusion cores are more expensive and they're not used as ammo. Makes more sense this way as most Fusion cores in buildings save a few are kind of tricky to get. They're insanely expensive, one can cost up to 16,000 caps, so in a way they're used for powering certain other items such as generators and power armor exclusively.
I feel like if Bethesda snorts lore cocaine or something in the future, they should make it where there are two different Fusion Cores, Civilian Cores that are not meant for Power Armor and would leak heavy amounts of energy and Military Cores where those are the everlasting kind of ones, perhaps you can even have it where that those ones would have some more plates and protection in the back since you don't need to swap it out and so that you can enjoy not having your fusion core blowing up.
@@Predator20357 They better start overdosing that Fallout lore since they share same parent company as Obsidian. Yes some of FO NV crew has left but still I don't see it immerse issue.
23:40 I mean I know it is the Secret Service PA, but it always bothered me that no one sent into the reactor to repair it was wearing PA or radiation suits. You’d think they would’ve outfitted their own secret service better than that. Now admittedly you could say the suits were damaged by this point or something, but still, that never made sense to me.
I mean, that would be one of it's purposes, it has ridiculously high rad resistance
As far as I know, they never actually made any of the suits inside the vault. I mean, look at how they THOUGHT things would go. They thought the government would show up, let them out of the vault, and America would start up again. 20 something years pass, and nobody has shown up.
They planned for the best case scenario, and the worst case happened.
@@austinhawkins3307 Lets see, I think it was 25 years when vault 76 opened, 26 for Wastlanders, 27 for the BoS arrival, 27 1/2 for end of Steel Dawn, marking the years since the bomb drop mind you.
The T-65 is never seen in game as it was left as a project only, it was never built, you can't found it in game, the only way to get it is by crafting it yourself based off the plans you can buy at the vault, all though it's questionable why they didn't build it then. Maybe unavailability of resources or something.
@@The_Soviet_Cat_2233 I find it extremely unlikely that it wasn't built. The Secret Service agents we see aren't wearing any of their gear except for the underarmour, which is common in 76, it for years after the games came out all the Brotherhood corpses didn't even have power armour pieces, they were just wearing empty frames. It's clearly just a gameplay purpose that we have to but plans for it, because obviously, it would be impossible for one person to build the suit like we do in game. Vault 79 also definitely would not be short on resources, they were a vault to hold the entirety of America's gold reserve, when vault already cost hundreds of millions, they would probably throw an extra few to have proper power armour suits.
90% of the complications can be chalked up to Bethesda just going wild with power armor and not considering the gameplay or lore ramifications of doing so. No wonder the East has more power armor than the West. Although you can try justify it with speculation, the most realistic reason is that Bethesda simply puts tons more of it in their games. It’s less of a rare end game armor set, and more just tossed around as Fallout imagery because it looks cool and it’s powerful.
Yeah, I hated the idea of getting power armour at the start of the game. Even fallout 1/2 Devs said on stream that made no sense.
It's because power armor actually had a purpose for builds now. Every other game just made them armors with really high numbers and that's it
4 made it so you can actually make it a build to play with and not the final skin to have on like 3 did with the stealth armor
@@hunterblue7816 still, you could have added another armor purpose to it instead of power armor, it supposed to be THE armor, not shit you get at the start.
@@jh047ono you couldn't as again, it's now a build. Adding literally any other suit of armor wouldn't make sense.
Power armor was never special, it was always just big numbers. It worked with just about any build from rifleman to melee to even sneak. Now it doesn't and that's why they let you make a build around it from the start.
@@hunterblue7816 “power armor was never special, just big numbers.”
It was special because of those big numbers, and also being incredibly rare. It’s as simple as that. Your looking at “special” through the lens of only what Bethesda did with 4s armor, when making power armor the best and rarest armor in the game can also make it “special”.
My head canon for inferior Enclave armor from 3 onward was due to the destruction of the oil rig in FO2.
In FO2, the Enclave were literally the secret service surrounding the president, they definitely had the best while the rest had to make due..
Heck their cadets used T-51Bs.
After Oil rig is gone, the advanced plans and advanced materials were lost. And so they had to make do with whatever they can produce.
Hence their "black devil armor" looks more metallic reminiscent of the original T-45.
That said Enclave SHOULD have bases all over the world and more than one such president in case of an emergency. Like the closest that we know off is in Chicago.
Bethesda basically threw the idea away and the Control Station Enclave was the biggest Enclave base period. Everything else are basically irrelevant outposts for people who couldn't get to the oil rig in time.
@@LecherousLizardJudging by the Gecko plant's connection to Control Station ENCLAVE, it's probable that all these bases were connected on a network, and that Richardson was the POTUS to the entire Enclave.
@@LecherousLizard I'd go with the idea that the other Enclave branches just faded away and got absorbed into the local populations since (bar 76) every game takes place well over 80 years after the war. It would be difficult to keep people caring about the faction's ideals two or three generations down the line after minimal or no contact from the leaders, especially when the beliefs are centered around something that died before you were ever born. Main branch would only survive ideologically due to direct control by fanatics.
@@kanrakucheese Yeah, not really.
At a basic level Enclave allows a set number of individuals to have complete control over their personnel.
It wouldn't just "fade away" unless:
1. There was a serious riot and most of the personnel just walked out or
2. Somebody less than stellar in their belief ended up being the local leader and just disbanded the chapter.
This much is mirrored by vaults, where every vault that could, stayed closed indefinitely.
Those few that could, but didn't ended up with their overseers being shot by an angry mob and then everybody gtfo'd outside.
one thing you forgot is that raider power armor has the least amount of rad resist because the torso only gives 100 while the other torso's have 150
Eh, I said it has the worst resistances
Probably because the raider pieces aren't properly sealed.
Radiation resistance isn't just about putting enough sheer *mass* in place to stop radiation from getting through to the armour's wearer, but also about sealing the gaps *between* the armour pieces to keep radioactive dust, dirt, and liquids out of the suit, as well as properly filtering the occupant's air so they're not inhaling radioactive particulates.
So while a raider could easily produce an armour piece with the same *weight* as a normal power armour piece, they're not going to be as good at properly sealing up the cracks, joints, and crevices *between* those pieces.
Ergo, the raider armour plates will probably have a lower *overall* radiation resistance rating, even if they're the same weight as, say, a set of T-45, T-60, or T-51 armour plates.
T-60 is my favorite PA in terms of appearance. I've always preferred the T-45/T-60 helmet vs the T-51B and X-01 helmets. And I love that the T-60 is just a more compact and slimmer version of the T-45. The PA that comes close for me is APA which is a slimmer version of X-01.
The APA is my favourite, but the X-01 is one of my least favourite. I don't much like the look of the Fallout 4 style, the legs especially are just so weird. It works for the T-51 and the T-60, but all the other ones just look too fat.
T60 doesn’t really look slimmer than T45 to me, it looks a lot bulkier but in a good way, since it looks a lot stronger and more defensive
I hate how T-51 looks, T-45 and T-60 will always be superior imo
The Fallout Tactics design, if made properly (not like that joke of a power armor Bethesda made for Enclave in Fo3) would've been the best one, imo.
I’ve always liked the look of T-51
It always baffles me why people try to find lore reasonings for engine limitations. Art direction and what is actually feasible are two different things
It feels like a really recent phenomena, and it's really bloody annoying
what do you mean?
I get it, but Bethesda not doing power armour right because they can't be bothered to improve their engine or other technical aspects of their games naturally has fans searching for lore explanations to preserve immersion and continuity.
My personal headcannon for Nora being able to use to use power armor is that Nora was also in the army, thats where she met Nate, but Nate when career in the army, she got HD and went to law school. So this is how she can shoot, use power armor and everything else so effectively. She is also from the military, just for a shorter period than Nate. Nate is quite the high ranking member of the military, he was gonna have a speech in Funeil Hall too, the guy was no low ranking soldier, at minimum Nate was a captain or even a major. Nora was likely a sargeant or maybe a NCO
1. Sergeant IS a NCO
2. Nate was scheduled to give a speech in Veteran’s Hall in a PR event to support the funding for veterans, it wasn’t such a big event as you suggest
3. Given the clues we got, it is unlikely Nate was an officer, much less a high-ranking one. All points to the fact that he was a grunt, maybe a NCO
@@annoyance.2583 1- My bad, Im not even American
2- Still a speech and still you dont want to call your low hung soldiers for that, preferably you call an unit commander, even more preferably a unit commander with accolades, like participating in the successful battle of Anchorage
3- Actually no, he was a high-ish rank official at minimum, he had a pretty comfy house and was a condecorated soldier in a extremely militarized and chaotic society of pre-war America, also they had a Corvega sports car, not the most expensive in the world, but still pretty expensive, since both Nate and Nora were talking about taking strolls jn the park on Saturday, while not everybody works on a Saturday, the pre war America was current America but far worse, so many people were either leaving paycheck to paycheck or not even that that today's economics looks sustainable near them, so not working on a Saturday is pretty big sign of financial stability not afforded to your average grunt, even more because people were enlisting in droves too
I definitely love the fallout 4 style of power armor way more than the other ones. It actually feel like "power armor" and you feel like a walking tank when you're using it.
Yeah, but you're not supposed to be a walking tank in it. PA is just supposed to be powered combat armor. It's supposed to make you a weapons platform so you can carry heavy weapons like they're small-arms Fat-mans, miniguns, Missile launchers, etc.
@@kj_heichou bruh, it's literally called "power armor" the lore states that it can take at least one tank round point blank. It's meant to make you feel like you're unstoppable, and it does that well.
@@flawless_Cowboy yeah and not a mech suit lmao
@@kj_heichou i think the mech suit approach is way more fun to use.
@@potatoguy7929 Yah, it should LOOK like something Big and Bulky to explain how it could handle a Tank Round (most likely HE Tank Round), the human sized armor of 3 and NV looks like it could barely handle a 50 Caliber bullet which is why 1 and 2 are bulky and big.
I like the idea of the slimmer variants being different models, since I like both versions.
I think fallout 4s Design was an attempt at a modular armor, which is why it has no unending battery and is bigger with a frame
I like how the show has done it, the frame mech suit type design is still there, and so are the fusion cores, but the fusion cores last MUCH longer as we see Maximus using it for days. The training is also sort of there but not 100% needed, as maximus didn't have any training but could still use it, just not well.
Time in the games passes waaaay faster than irl.
@@The_mrbob i know he says that in he video but they still don't last as long as in the show. It's only a couple hours as apposed to the few days that Maximus has the suit
From a lot of supplemental bandaid lore fixes BGS has released (most of which should have been around as early as FO4 but eh, at least it actually happened), here's the gist of some of the weirder power armor stats and lore:
-T-60 is a reinforced, upgraded version of T-45 due to T-51 being way too expensive and difficult to mass produce. It's basically just making the T-45 plates thicker and adding some QoL internal mechanical upgrades, and it's supposed to be slower than T-51 but gets the job done. The transition of the T-45s into T-60s just started right before the war so most T-45s never got the upgrade.
-APA Mk2 armor is supposed to be an extremely mobile power armor capable of mobility, flexibility, and speed of a non-power infantry soldier with T-45 levels of protection, which is actually a crazy good compromise that reaches an amazing balance of speed and defense. However, this makes it less effective when used against other power infantry due to other power armor models being more protective and not really caring much for mobility, making it unfairly good against non-powered enemies but painfully mediocre vs opposing power infantry. It's great for quick operations, raids, and skirmishes but less so for direct, prolonged combat.
-Hellfire armor is basically the APA Mk3, the pinnacle of power armor technology which integrates the mobility o the APA Mk2 and the massive protection of the APA Mk1. It's implied in Lonesome Road that this is the result of perfected Duraframe plating as the resources to reinforce the eyebots with it was redirected to the Hellfire production. So it's implied that the suit is a huge mass of advanced Duraframe plates.
-APA Mk1 is a "heavy PA" of the Enclave armors, being the slower but way more durable counterpart to the MK2. The Mk1 and Mk2 are technically supposed to be used in tandem with each other for different roles, both being different types of upgrades to the T-51 but hyper focusing on either defense or mobility, not both.
-X-01 is technically the APA Mk0, being the experimental pre-war state of what would become the APA series armors. Weirdly enough, this is the only power armor that has its roles and limitations expressed in gameplay, as it was nonsensically resource-hungry to produce and maintain to the point where it was only ever really good for promotional purposes like with Nuka World crossovers since mass producing them was stupid even in pre-war times, but the public didn't know this and it could be used as a big, shiny, "hey we're making more cool stuff" symbol. The Enclave took many years to turn this into the APA series armors since engineering this thing to a more affordable state while maintaining its protection was a bitch to do.
-Hellcat armor is just a suit of whatever model power armor was issued to the Hellcat Armored Brigade, which they then customized to look like how it does. The Hellcats are mentioned in the pre-war segment of FO4 in the news, so they are a surviving military unit who just liked making their power armor look cool but not really any more effective.
Congrats, you made the whole thing make sense. Regarding the Hellcat PA, historically soldiers had a habit of doing upgrades which made them feel better, but in reality actually didn't. WW2 tankers liked to put sandbags, spare roadwheels, etc. on the tank glacis, even though it wore out the transmission faster and offered no additional protection, so I can see it work in the same way. Now... What's with T-65? A quickly uparmoured T-51 to serve as a stopgap model until something comes from X-01 (from pre-war perspective)? But I agree that this mess could've been much less annoying had Bethesda not been Bethesda.
Kinda reminds me of Soviet tank development:
First you start with T-54/T-55 tank, very basic and practically WW2 tech. Then you have it slightly upgraded (upgunned, really), thus becoming the T-62 tank. In the meantime, you have design work on T-64 tank, which is a highly advanced model. Then on the basis of T-64, the T-72 is developed as a war mobilisation model, but with bare minimum of the new tech to be as cheap as possible, as a replacement for T-54/T-55/T-62. Thus T-64 and it's own direct upgrade, the T-80, is kept with guards/elite units only.
Though, admittedly, the Soviet tank development still makes more sense than Fallout power armour mess.
And now T-45 and T-60 have a weld weakspot. And T-60 got to west coast.
It was cool for that one scene but doesn’t make sense practically
Don't forget that you can pull out the fusion core to trap users inside...at least according to the TV show.
...did that even happen in the games?
Like in Fallout 4 or Fallout 76 if your fusion core ran out was your character just trapped inside of the suit?
@@wisemage0 i heard that the power armor opens up to ket you out. Never played F4 that long to see if true. Git bored 😆
@@wisemage0if the core runs out in game you aren't kicked from the armour, it just becomes a massive burden, bringing your walk speed to a crawl and removing your ability to sprint. I think there's some other debuffs, but you get the idea
@MatJan86 you can steal the core from power armored enemies, and it ejects them from the suit
My opinion on power armor training is that power armor is essentially like operating a forklift or some other heavy machinery. Someone can teach themselves but in 3 and NV when you join up to get your power armor you are given on the job training to operate it
There's another instance of a fusion core's operational life being mentioned in Fallout 4: SSG Michael Daly's log. His power armor is on the roof of the museum of freedom, abandoned approximately 3 days after the bombs fell due to his fusion core burning out.
I actually like to think the power armor exoskeleton retcon helps to build a grounded reason for power armor training. It's not just a massive suit of armor, it's an entire piece of hardware and technology that requires indepth understanding to properly wield.
5:30 you realize the letter designations are in FO4, they appear when you upgrade it
I'm one of those weirdos who sacrifice my long-term effectiveness for the sake of lore lol. When upgrading PA in F4 I never go past their designations from previous games. Like example, I will only ever upgrade a T-51 suit to be T-51b, but I will never upgrade it to a higher designation, similar with T-45, I will never upgrade it past T-45d. Sure it may gimp my overall effectiveness later on once I reach higher levels, but I don't care lol. My only exceptions are T-60 and X-01, as those armour's never had designations in previous games, so I just kinda pick a random letter above D for T-60. For X-01 I'll go up all the way to max power.
That’s one thing I absolutely love about FO4, power armor feels like an advanced piece of mobile armor instead of an outfit . I would like to see more items on the hub in future games however. Mods in FO3/NV perfected the hud in PA, I had weather, storm notifications and needs monitoring, I miss those days.
The Boston, Virginia, DC and New York areas has a high numbers of population, which means more riots. Hence the needs for more power armours.
You have to be my favourite fallout UA-camr. Please continue the amazing work
Nexus mods has you covered for Fallout 4 with fusion core drain with a mod called "Balaned Fusion Core Drain", which really makes fusion cores work the way they should have in the base game.
How is that? I never seen that mod so I have no clue.
As always, the modding community fixes Bethesda's messes for them XD
@@educatedfool5121 I don't get this comment this time. As far as I know Fusion Core drain rate was a game design choice, not a bug.
@@gmradio2436 a game design choice that makes no sense in Bethesda established lore. Its like they created new lore but Bethesda themselves won't follow it.
@@normaaliihminen722 You are losing me. If this was a debate of fusion reactor powered power armor, I could see that, but this is Fallout's third soft reboot. Please explain clearly your issue with the lore so I know what soft recon to talk about.
Fallout 4’s next-gen update has canonized X-02 (APA MkII) and X-03 (Hellfire) armor in the commonwealth
Before Fallout 4 was out I assumed the T-60 suit was an upgraded version of the T-45. An easy, respectable change of the lore to be "The Eastern Brotherhood upgraded their T-45 units by modifying them after the defeat of the Enclave, using the large quantities of X-02 suits they had at their disposal."
We get a holotape in nuka world were 2 raiders captured a suit if brotherhood pa, they couldn't control it and fell off a cliff
My favourite suit is Ashur’s (from the Pitt) or the quantum suit (from Nuka-World)
Ashur’s is just cool, much like the Divide power armour but (imo) cooler. And Quantum just has a nice colour 😂
Also the blue headlight looks really cool on the quantum X-01
Austin from the Game Theory series The Science! (and also Shoddycast) did some math regarding the longevity, and lack thereof, of fusion cores. The math was interesting.
So someone sat down and crunched the numbers for the Fusion cores. and they found a specific radioactive element that had an appropriate half life and power output to make it so that it would make sense to use it in a high draw item like power armor, but be nearly depleted at the 200 years post war that Fallout 4 takes place. so the Fusion cores ARE the micro fusion reactors that would last hundreds of years, but it's not dependent on them being used for hundreds of years, it's just the fuel runs it's self out over time, used or not. And when you get them in FO4, the high draw Power Armors drain the internal storage in minutes, and the little nuclear fuel remaining wouldn't refill the power fast enough to be of use.
My own pet fan theories:
• On power armor frames: The Boston/Virginia versions were the older ones, the original models that required frames but are far easier to repair and refit; so the brotherhood adopted them after finding them sometime after leaving DC. Also explains why non-military sites like Nuka-World would have an X01 suit that uses a frame, the frame system is the PA prototype and testing concept. (DC, being the capital, got the good shit that was new and didn't require frames).
• On fusion cores: I've heard this one elsewhere, I like the idea that the cores are chargeable "batteries" instead of one-time limited use fusion reactors. Or are full on fusion reactors, but don't have either the fuel storage or fuel generation capabilities of the stationary generators. So they run down, but are nominally easily recharged(and that bit is forgotten knowledge). Also explains why buildings work fine *without* the core.
22:45 the brotherhood is producing T60 on their own this can be found out from a terminal in FO4
Bethesda missed an opportunity to make t45 and t60 brotherhood creations. T45 was a cheaper less effective substitute for their damaged t51 armor during the events of FO3. After defeating the super mutants and enclave the east coast brotherhood had time and resources to really refine and improve the design into t60.
Except T51 was made to replace T45 before the US operation to reclaim Alaska
T-45 wasn't made by Bethesda. It came from Van Buren.
The great video although here are some things to consider about t-51b in Appalachia. It's more likely that the abundance of it comes from the military units in the area and not from the remnants from DC. We know that taggerty's thunder was performing war games with several Marine divisions in the area after coming back from the front lines and that these war games would determine different missions preferences in the upcoming offensive into China so it's more than likely that the thunder and the Marine divisions probably had suits of t51 power armor if they have come back from the front lines. We also know that taggerty wanted to recruit only from military personnel either current serving or past serving so it's more than likely any remaining military units in the area would have joined the Brotherhood of Steel bringing their suits of t51 we can confirm this by the corpses of fallen Brotherhood of Steel members and power armor are all using the t-51 model.
Another potential explanation for all the power armor within Appalachia could be explained by the key assets located within the region such as white springs, westtech, vault 79, arktos, etc.
We also know that they had companies such as Grafton steel mill working on military products as well.
Game Theory did a video on the fusion cores, and he noted that the cores were in lore mentioned (in Fallout 1) to last around 200 years. His math said that the hydrogen fuel in the cell would be on their last legs at the start of Fallout 4, so @10 hours of use (depending on activity) was considered plausible.
Don't forget that Power Armour, most definitely the laser weapons use an enormous amount of energy.
I love the inclusion of a frame in F4, however I think it would have been good to have PA limit and extend abilities, like in PA you can't use pistols, big fingers. However heavy weapons can be used un encumbered. In old fallout games some weapons had strength limits, this should have been left and PA could remove this. F4 made weapons bigger so in PA weapons would appear appropriate, so if some weapons were incompatible with PA that problem could be solved. Lastly too much PA is in game F4, especially x01
I've always just headcanon'd that the armor in Fallout 4 (Especially the T60) are all on the *FRAME* of the T-45, specifically the variant that chewed through Microfusion Cells (Now Fusion Core) too much to be reliable.
Like putting better armor on the Chassis of an old school Jeep
21:45 I mean there is the huge nuclear arsenal in what is now the Glowing Sea. I mean, wouldn’t you want a force of PA users defending that place?
I think it makes sense for 76 to have a lot of armors as the dwellers were probably taught how to use it and the way to craft parts of it.
Excellent video man and I agree Nate is more than likely the sole survivor. Not just the power Armor training being Canon or whatever but mostly the fact that he is the one that did the intro.. they would have recorded different intros for both if not.
When it comes to Power Armor training I tried to explain to someone that that's what a retcon is, that becomes the new canon. And let's be honest it makes sense, it's an advanced piece of military equipment that weighs a literal crap ton and is powered by a fusion power source, along with dangerous hydraulics and servo motors, yeah training seems quite realistic. However retcons are nothing new, Bethesda did that with the Nuka-Cola bottles (They never used to be rocket shaped but now that is canon) and a bunch of other stuff I can make a list. Either way requiring training for power armor use became canon as of Fallout 3, one can receive power armor training after joining the Brotherhood of Steel, this is needed to complete the main quest line regardless. And they didn't want people to be able to get power armor at the GNR. And not only does this retcon exist on the East Coast but it extends to the West Coast as well because Fallout 3 wasn't the only game to have it. As in Fallout New Vegas power armor training is also required to wear power armor. This time it comes in the form of a perk called "power armor training" that can only be unlocked after completing either "Still in the Dark" for the Brotherhood of Steel or as a part "For Auld Lang Syne", with the Enclave remnants and Arcade Gannon. Again this retcon would technically make it so power armor that was being worn during the events of Fallout 1 and 2 would need training in order to wear during the events of Fallout New Vegas. Also during those early games besides you and your companions the only people that were really wearing power armor were either The Enclave or the Brotherhood of Steel. Both of which had military training.
Now for playability reasons over the history of the history of Fallout we have seen exemptions to this as some characters do not require power armor training to wear power armor. This mostly being companions, again this is done for playability reasons not lore. In Fallout 1 and 2, there was no power armor training. But the only groups that you could get power armor from more or less were military factions that most likely did indeed train soldiers to use power armor. However this was not introduced into lore until Fallout 3, as I don't think it was seen as that big of a deal back then. The fact of acquiring T-45 power armor very early on in the game at the GNR is one reason for them doing this. But as I mentioned above it would make sense that one would need some training to use power armor efficiently and safely. It is extremely heavy equipment and has a lot of dangerous moving parts like servo motors and hydraulics, and all of them are powered with fusion energy technology (whether it be fusion cores or microfusion cells like in the older games you are basically wearing a nuclear reactor... Should have at least a little bit of training about the operation of the suit).
But yeah even in games where this is solid canon we have seen playabilities work arounds. Like Charon for example the ghoul companion can wear power armor the second that his contract is acquired from Underworld City. Unless he was a member of the military before the Great War I doubt he received power armor training, but it is possible. But for playability reasons in Fallout 3, All humanoid companions can wear power armor without training (this obviously excludes companions like Fawkes, Dogmeat and RL-3) Similarly in New Vegas all humanoid companions can wear power armor without training. Again all this was done with playability of the game specifically in mind. That way you could have your characters in the best armor possible even if for example, they wouldn't be able to join the Brotherhood or Enclave because of NPC karma level or their species. They did the same thing for Fallout 4 and Nora in my opinion. While on paper in Fallout 4 one does not need power armor training to operate it, retcon/canon wise one would still need it in my opinion. In Fallout 4, we get the new edition of seeing raider groups and the Atom Cats using power armor. I bet even these raiders have to train in their power armor. Though we haven't seen one I do assume there are quite a few instructional booklets or holotapes around. Regardless a large group of raiders/anyone can do it through trial and error, meaning for example they could have 10 guys either die or mutilate themselves but at the end of it they would understand how to train people in its use properly (very similar scenario of trying to launch a rocket into space, tons of death, failure and learning followed by eventual success). It would be insanely hard for Nora or anyone to do it all on their own. One mess up and that's it.
But yeah even if power armor training wasn't required for Nora which I'm 99% sure it still would be. Still more evidence points towards Nate being the canon Sole Survivor. Again the bigger thing is it would have been her doing the intro otherwise not him.
"The year is 2077. We stand on the brink of total war, and I am afraid. For myself, for my wife, for my infant son. Because if my time in the Army taught me one thing, it's that war, war never changes." ~Nate
9:43 If memory serves me right, in the black and white cinematic flashback, the default Nate is shown in the PA.
He's one of the soldiers in that squad, but he's not wearing the PA, you can see him closest to the camera.
- T45 First power armor, Started use during resource war. Most common, cause they wanted TONS of the stuff!
- T51 Second power armor, Used to finish resource war. Still lots since it was the main go to, and they had time and resources to pump out these bad boys! No major design flaws.
- T60 Had a bunch of T45 laying around after the creation of T51, so we took improvements from T51 and made T45 better. That took time (which there wasn't a lot of before the boom) and resources (which were getting thin) so not a ton made it out there, but the T45s would have eventually all just been replaced by these... eventually.
- T65... not sure on this one, pretty sure not cannon... or at most would have been blue prints in concept only pre-war. Might have been the blue prints for what the American government was going to reveal as the next step to power armor... but no suit would have existed.
- X01 design built to replace T51, but expensive, and only for use by shadow government. While a handful of blue prints made it around to various contractors in secret to make "proof of concept" models, very few ever actually existed pre-war... any that did, never saw service. Also there would have been HUGE material cost to create them and designs would not have been refined to allow mass production, or contained flaws that would have ended with a lot of wear and tear, further increasing rarity, or any chance of coming across one.
- Hellfire proto-type... possibly blue print concept to allow survival in radiation or extreme fire conditions (possible the enclave believed this would be a major issue pre-war). No actual suit was made, but my theory is the zax had a copy of the blue prints shipped which allowed it to make a set. This would also mean the facility would have to have some secret armor producing capabilities, but not out of the realm of possibility.
- Advaced power armor, took a lot of deaths, but they finally made an X01 that was semi-mass produce-able. Though not in large quantities, and would require huge investment to make. Obviously the best!
- Advance Power armor MK 2, Lost a lot of production power, not as many resources, but still need to mass produce enough to armor all the troops! Not as good, but we can still crank them out! Accounts for the drop in quality from the MK1, but still allows Enclave access to a power armor.
- Hellfire... Well pre-war Enclave were kinda right... fire is in a lot of areas, so having extra fire protection is important. Blue-prints worked on until a practical post-war version could be produced.
- Excavator... there are five suits total that exist... maybe a few people found them and made more, but with lack of production capabilities... doubt it.
- Raider... Deserters from the military that eventually took their knowledge of how to use power armor and used it to form gangs... knowledge passed down from leader to leader. Also using low ranking members of gang to try it out until either they die, or get it...
- Hellcat ... not cannon I guess? Or possibly an actual mercenary company? Honestly don't have a clue... looks cool but terrible idea from a lore perspective.
My headcanon for Nora knowing how to use power armor is simple. She was a member of the army's JAG team. (JAG is the militaries legal team essentially) So she could be knowledgeable of how they work and such, perhaps she had training on it as well? Either way it is my head canon explanation.
Honestly a better question is how come she is as good of a fighter as Nate? Like gameplay wise they are the same.
Nate could also have talked about pa operation manual
That's always been my headcanon explenation for Nora as well.
@@bloodangel19 maybe nate trained nora or nora hit the gym after her pregnancy.
@@bloodangel19 considering the war was going on I like to believe she had frequent training drills when not practicing law.
about the T45 power armor in DC, iirc the BoS when arrived and set their base at the Pentagon, they found a lot of T-45 there. There was a conversation or terminal log about it
T-60 power armor wasn't publicly known about in 2077 when the bombs fell
I remember a mission in FO tactics where you were sent to an old military base to retrieve a stock pile of fusion core batteries. I know that game isn't exactly canon but some of the dialog might shed light on what the old canon was for them.
WHERE IS YOUR POWER AMOUR??!
8:05 - Nope, this actually makes sense about how degraded the fusion cares are by Fallout 4's time. Shoddycast actually did the math (so much math) about how much energy could possibly be in a fusion core and how long it would last. Turns out that the fusion cores would likely last only about 60 days past the start day of Fallout 4 because they were that degraded. He cites his sources and math as to how he came to the conclusion. And guess what? The lifetime matches up with Fallout 1 saying how long that they would last. So someone at Bethesda either got very, *_very_* lucky with that or they actually did their homework. Knowing Bethesda, I'm guessing lucky.
Video here: /watch?v=bA76-cixf-s
Bethesda didn't own Fallout before 3, it was Black Isle entertainment (who later mostly shifted to Obsidian, aka FNV devs). Definitely more inclined to do their homework, that lot!
Nope still stupid and only purpose is pointless game balance they could have avoided by just not giving you power armor at the start
@@ravensflockmate
"Nope still stupid"
It matches not only with the science of what could be theoretically possible, but also the lore of Fallout 1.
"they could have avoided by just not giving you power armor at the start"
...And how would that solve anything about power cores? Changing WHEN they let you have access to power armor (and, by the way, it's Fallout - you can just exit the Vault and go and ignore the main quest for 93 hours and meet Preston in X-01 power armor with a Gatling Laser - your argument is meaningless) does nothing about how it works...
@@ravensflockmate cope
@@M50A1 seethe
On fusion core history, at the top of the concord museum (fallout 4), there is a holotape where a US solder's holotape was drained shortly after the bombs dropped.
One weird thing about X-01 is that nuka cola corp. got access to one and just put it on display, absolutely ignoring the fact that it exposes a military secret for the whole world to see.
My fav suit of power armour is the mid west Brotherhood power armour
One fusion core can power an entire building for 200 years, but can only power a suit of armor for 15 minutes.
I prefer the fallout 4 style of power armor. But the fusion core time is ridiculous. It should last MUCH longer than a few minutes, If not infinite, I dont care if it's OP, Or for gameplay balance, I don't see the point of power armor losing it's charge when the charge should last for centuries.
Because of the time difference between real time and time passed in game, the fusion cores really last for multiple hours, and not being infinite can easily be chalked up to inefficient power usage and the fusion cores having their charge decayed after 200 years
Worth noting that the '-b' or '-d' suffixes in fallout 4 are obtainable by upgrading your armour to the models of that letter. For example a T-51-b is simply a T-51 model B. Bethesda is definately saying power armour alwats had a frame. Which not only feels better from a gameplay perspective but also makes more sense as power armour.
Bethesda doesn't give enough of a fuck about inconsistencies.
But I apreciate this video and the effort put in it
T45: Flawed proof of concept. Better then most conventional body armor, but suffered from major design flaws that would be fixed in the T51
T51: The best of the best of Pre-War armor. Fixes all the problems of the T45, and a lot of the tech developed for this suit would be applied to alternative models that would be built after the Liberation of Anchorage.
T60: Modernized upgrade of the T45. Whilst not as durable or as light as T51, T60 is far easier to build and maintain, and serves as a more ecenomically viable alternative for the National Guard whilst implementing a lot of the fixes that the T51 incorperated when the US Army began to phase out the T45.
X01: An extremly experimental prototype suit developed by the Pre-War Enclave before the bombs fell. Most of its design features would be incorperated into the APA Power Armor over 100 years later.
T65: Takes the best elements from T60 and T51 for a suit to be used by the US Secret Service. Far to expensive to be delopyed for the army, but fits all the requirements that the CIA and/or US Secret Service need in Power Armor.
Hellcat: Probably a Pre-War Army prototype that would go on to inspire the X01 Power Armor in its design and construction ideas. A lot of overlap in its design features between T51 and X01 Power Armor. Could see this armor's official designation being something like 'X00' to elaborate on this.
Prototype Hellfire: Another Pre-War Enclave armor prototype that was beta tested in secret, but would never see active use until around 200 years later with finalzied versions of the Enclave Hellfire armor.
X02: A cheaper alternative to APA armor. Much like how the T60 is inferior to T51, this armor must've been cheaper and easier for the Enclave to mass produce and repair in comparison to their APA suits.
None of this can survive the notion of bethesda simply making a new power armor every few months just to have people buy from the atom shop. Absolutely no regard for lore was taken into account.
Nuka Cola pre-war X-01.
@KneeCapHill you think power armour variants are bloated, wait to you see tank variants from WW2 America and Germany.
I always laugh a bit when I see people expect every new Fallout game to only use the T-45 and Enclave armors.
You really think the AMERICAN MILITARY wouldn’t spend billions of dollars to develop, invent, and build multiple models of power armor? Just look at how many tank variants existed during WW2.
You can go further than that. Tanks are one thing, but the US had 9 classes of battleships ALONE, not even considering cruisers, destroyers, aircraft carriers, submarines, and support ships. All of which are vastly more expensive than tanks
@@IJNAzooma Very much so, I just used tanks as they’re the closest approximation since power armor was meant to replace armored vehicles.
20:47 West Virginia also boasts a military training camp who was running exercises pre-war and seemingly with PA as we saw with the poor soldier in the trailer who saw the bombs fall. We also have the Government Bunker and Vault 79. I think I recall something about senators having been provided a suit (can’t recall which type) to get them to the bunker in the event of an emergency and i’d assume their bodyguards would also get a set. Also we do see a number of military freight trains (judging by the crates) that sport partial sets of PA.
Hinestly the frames make armor look so much cooler
Easily the best retcon in the series is how power armor actually works. I was never a fan of how in 3 and NV it just looked like cooler looking armor but didn't feel like "power" armor. Now it feels like your a tank and it looks like it too.
My personal headcanon for Fusion Core's is that they are required for faster movement while in them. The onboard reactor's are still there, and kick in when the fusion core runs out, allowing the person to still move, albeit slowly, and get out of the suit from inside, as well as still allowing aid in dampening recoil and lifting heavier objects and stuff.
Thats.... A good theory , niceee
Fallout 4 it wouldnt be strange to assume that the sole survivor would have power armor training. Fallout 76 fucked that all to hell.
If you play as the male character, yes. But if you play as the female character, it wouldn't make sense for her to have the training as she's a lawyer.
Using Power Armor in Fo3 when I first obtained it felt so- underwelming, but the moment I set eyes on the Power Armor in Fallout 4, I- was already jumping in my seat, and god, the feeling of being a near invincible soldier built out of Pre-War training and equipment was so badass.
id love how to see they do power armour in the up coming show, I really hope its not CGI
They will probably be lame and go CGI because "cheaper".
@@Nathan_Coley as much as I know you're right I hope you're wrong
@@pennydime4562 I also hope I'm wrong. I'd much rather take practical effects
My prediction: Cosplays already wipe the floor with whatever the TV version ends up being 😁
@@philurbaniak1811 because cosplayers actually try
Say what you will, but I definitely prefer the FO4/FO76 depiction of Power Armor. It matches the description better and necessary impact PA would need to have in order to have the kind of influence it's stated to in the lore. It also makes more sense as a piece of military equipment vs. the "Keep it in a pocket in your sweater" style from older games.
Even the removal of training needed to use it makes more sense for it's role; for the way and numbers it's supposed to be used in lore, you can't have it being this massively complicated machine that takes tons of training to even use at a basic level if it's essentially supposed to be infantry standard/common equipment. Now having training to make proper FULL use of it or specialized features makes sense - but locking you completely out of using PA, one of the most iconic images of Fallout, simply because you don't have training ruins both it's lore usefulness and gameplay usefulness.
Regarding Fallout 2 PA training - it was planned to be a thing in Fo2 too, there is an in-game item called Technical Manual that would teach you how to use/maintain PA.
The idea of training for PA goes as far as Fallout 1, where you'd get trained by the BoS as a part of quest line or you could get the manual by killing everyone and looting the storeroom (which also contains PA).
But in both cases the idea was scrapped as PA is, in many ways, gated behind high level already (and I am aware of the Navarro runs but that is more of an exploit than how most people play Fallout 2). It appeared in Fo3 and New Vegas as it is much easier to get a hold of PA in these games (I mean in Fo3 you can get it in the early stages of the main quest by picking it off the dead bodies of Paladins and knights defending GNR and in FNV you can find dead squads in places like near Nellis/Boomers etc).
Great video topic if there was a new suit of PA created Post War what faction do you think should have it and what abilities do you think it should have?
In my mind Mr House could create two version of a H-Infinity suit where one is designed to act as a mobile life support system for himself with weapons and defences to counter any threat in the wasteland as a final layer of defence & a H-Lucky as a stranded model for his human workers that has a built in teleporter and matter converter to act as a module suit that can adapt to any situation that House has programmed into it.
You had me up until teleporter
@@KarmicKnight97Why is that & what type of PA would you make?
So Mr house would turn himself into a fallout Cyberman/davros?
@@redhood7650 That sounds interesting, if he did manage to obtain that what do you think he would do next and how would he control locations when he sends out ships to the stars, place a teleport system on each plant in a stargate network?
The Tactics BOS already created my favorite honestly. Couldn't really add much else.
Can we all just appreciate the fact that one guy put more effort into maintaining and upholding Fallout's lore than the entirety of Bethesda?
Personally, I feel like when it comes to power armor frames vs training it would make more sense to explain it as there are two types of power armor. First would be the current type, with frames that don't require training, and the second would be the frameless versions that do the same job of increasing strength and providing radiation resistance, but armor so tight by comparison that you need training on how to properly wear it, and since it's a full set, it wouldn't be customizable like the frames. The power armor in Fallout 4 is also noticeably less durable, since it can break down in one or two big gunfights, as opposed to the frameless version, which is seen to have a higher durability, but seemingly lower defense while it is intact.
You said the underarmor would remedy that the armor is conductive, but that makes a Farraday cage so it would shield you from incoming electricity. I always imagined the emergeny protocols and medic pump works through the underarmor
about the fusion core, lore wise, i think it makes some amount of sense that you would need a core for it to work, since they've been used for way over a hundred years and by now, the pack would have completely stopped working