I recently installed the Hemi 5.7 MDS delete kit, and ran into some issues. These are the steps I took to resolve the issues, and get the motor running.
Thank you for posting this video. I did a MDS delete due to a damaged cam and after fitting the kit, I had problems getting her to run. Very rough running and unable to idle. I thought that I must’ve had a bad vacuum leak, so I removed the intake manifold and double checked that the individual intake gaskets hadn’t dislodged from their position. I then remembered viewing you video several months ago when I was doing some research. I couldn’t remember the conclusion so looked back through my history and found it. So glad I did as I followed your course and compression tested each cylinder. Low and behold, number one had zero compression. Long story short, my 5.7 is an a JK Wrangler and the fit is fairly tight, that tight, due to AC lines, the only way to remove the rocker cover is by removing the alternator, power steer pump and radiator and sliding the cover forward and out. So when I installed the pushrods, I hadn’t seated one in the lifter, causing my issue. But due to your video, you saved me time and a lot of aggravation and assisted me in sorting it out. Many thanks again.🍺
Started the MDS delete on my brother's hemi last night. Glad I watched this video. When I get the valve covers on I'm going to do a compression test on all cylinders just so I don't have to backtrack. Thanks for the video.
Don't feel bad. Due to the way the lifters and pushrods lay almost horizontal, they almost NEVER want to stay in the cups and where they are supposed to during assembly. 95% of the time when a hemi of that type is put together and everything was fine but now it won't run.... its what you ran into. And the back cylinders are the usual culprits because it's hard to see, like you said. Your advice was also spot on. I compression test every motor once the valve train is assembled to double check for just that. About a quarter of the time when I first crank it... I'll hear a loud "TINK" as one of the pushrods slips either INto or OUT of the cup. Lol.
That's crazy to go through all of that to disable MDS... Like a lot of things, Chrysler should have given the owner the option to disable MDS with a simple switch.
There are small things people do with Tow/Haul mode and such that people claim with turn off ads while driving. You can also turn it off with a tuner, in my case the cam was already damaged, so I did the delete while in there.
There are easy ways to disable it such as tow/haul or using the gear limiter. However, the main issue with doing that is that it doesn't address the oiling issue, especially at idle. By removing the solenoids, it increases the oil flow and pressure to the lifters 100% of the time. With the mds, the higher pressure is only applied to the lifters during mds activation which is what causes them to work.
Thanks for the trouble shooting tips man. It’s always nice when people show the real world problems you run into when taking on these kinds of projects. It’s never self explanatory. Lol. I have a 2014 ram 1500. I found that it’s the pushrods not seating properly on the intake side, so they slip out of the seat once the engine rotated over. Luckily I manually turned the engine over and found that the #3 cylinder pushrod slipped out so no harm no foul, but I definitely would have had the same idoling issue if I tried running it. Thanks again for the post! Really helped me to avoid those pitfalls before I started.
It's because when you disable the MDS, the lifter ports with the MDS lifters are now not pressurized causing poor lifter/roller lubrication and rubes down the cam and can cause a bent pushrod.....
Thank you for taking the time to share that information I have considered purchasing a modern hemi truck but intend to delete the MDS right away before any issues arise.
@@wheelinoutwest It was, I’ve been avoiding newer Mopar gas engines for a while because of the horrific reputation of MDS so I stuck with Diesels. But I wanted a lighter commuter and heard you could delete MDS. No one else covered the lessons learned with this swap. So once again thanks!
I have an Aspen with the 5.7, and have 260k on it; I rebuilt it looking for the lifter/ cam issue, and all the parts inside looked practically new. Just wanted to let everyone know that this is the easiest motor I’ve ever worked on. I will drive this until it rusts into the ground. Motor is a beast. What other suv can tow 8000 pounds
I just completed a 2009 VCT 5.7 VCT delete and added a distributor drive gear to a 2006 timing chain set to drive A GM distributor. Installed the older now modified chain set , a GM distributor with ford 4.2 v6 drive gears and had to fix the lifters. If you take out the bad lifters ( ones with loose rollers, not locked up) and press out the roller pin, you'll notice part of the pin is worn down but the roller and needles are fine....usually. Find some GM 3.8L series 2 v6 roller lifters and press the pins out of them to replace the bad ones on the hemi. Im a cheap ass and find a way around shelling out $400+ on lifters, Ford 3.0L V6 OHV roller lifters have the same pins. If needles are damaged, swap out the pin and rollers as well, they fit the hemi lifters. Sub merge lifter in oil and pump them up before install, this will prevent bending pushrods, and they are also different lengths so watch out.
Thanks for posting this, I thought I was the only guy that got to do some of my engine work twice!! Nice! on not quitting the build and getting it done!! Got a P1416 code on my GC been parked since it started acting up but now it is time to get her done! H2O pump ,T stat and MDS 6 Just might consider the delete kit!
Thanks! A lot of good info here. I will also add/reinforce: The problem is, the engine oil may get old without you realizing, and then... Change the engine oil no more than 4k, regardless of "oil life" reading. Also be mindful of the operating hours as this will further break the oil on a "low mile" service interval if it has mostly idling. Consider 200 hours to be the limit here. Use premium oil and filters. Do this and your Hemi's lifters/cam will last well past 200k, regardless of when it was built. The sooner you are able to do this, the better. This is even MORE important on a higher mileage engine, which will require even shorter oil change intervals as the rate of oil contamination increases.
@@frivera735 To be clear, you have a misfire, and you are planning to just do the tuner, or the entire delete kit. The reason I ask, if you have a misfire, you may already have to do mechanical work, the cam may be damaged. I change oil by the manufacturers recommendations, but changing it early can never hurt anything.
It's because when you disable the MDS, the lifter ports with the MDS lifters are now not pressurized causing poor lifter/roller lubrication and rubes down the cam and can cause a bent pushrod.....
Been using Amsoil Signature 0w -20 and found it runs well with high oil pressure Oil was expensive so going to run out to 20,000 km and do An oil sample Test kit (komatsu do them for $40 they analyse the oil for contaminants) I fitted the hellcat high volume oil pump and I feel from the engine lack of valve train noise it’s still lubricating well after 10,000 country highway kilometres changing every 5000km is a good idea but I am going to use top quality Amsoil signature low viscosity oil and just see how far I can safely go before a hint of valve train noise or 20,000km whichever comes first
I've done this also on a 2010 ram 1500 5.7, to remove the mds solenoids cut a small piece of 2x4 or whatever small scrap wood you have and place the end on the top of the solenoid and lightly tap the opposite end of the wood with a hammer, the solenoids will then turn and slide out super easy with absolutely no damage!
Hey, I had to do the same thing on a 2013 ram and it was my first time doing it and I have few videos out on youtube the problem ran into is the handheld tuner
Cheapest way to avoid this on a 5.7 hemi is to replace the mds solenoids with new ones and then use a tuner to disable it on the system. That way you don't need to change anything. I suggest replacing the mds solenoids so you don't risk lifter failure in the future.
Yes, I read that. That disabling MDS keeps RPMS higher offering more lube to the lifters thus no lifter failure. I also read that MOST of the lifter damage is caused by idling for long periods of time.
My Uncle works for Ford but they do work on police Chargers all the time as well. He told me they had many lifter failures and cam wear (due to idling so often) but they damn near cured the issue simply by adding Lucas Oil lubricant to their oil. It raises oil pressure a bit (even at idle), and reduces wear on the cam and lifters. Ive got a 2020 Charger with 38k miles and will definitely add the Lucal Oil lubricant in my next oil change.
You don't need to remove the oil pan to remove the oil pump. After unscrewing the pump, just turn it and unscrew the pickup tube. Just be careful that the screw and the O-ring do not fall into the oil pan. This is also described in the service manual for this engine.
It's almost impossible on the truck version. They say there are extras hold downs on the pick up tube. On mine you can not slide oil pump left or right. Even with the chain guards out.
It's because when you disable the MDS, the lifter ports with the MDS lifters are now not pressurized causing poor lifter/roller lubrication and rubes down the cam and can cause a bent pushrod.....
@@63crosenberger Reinstalling is the issue if you don't take off the oil pan. You can get the oil pickup bolt off the oil pump by turning the pump clockwise, but getting it back on to thread and tighten is a test of patience , dexterity and creativity. I used fishing line on my bolt coiled counter clockwise on the threads, used my finger to hold in place and pulled on the fishing line to spin the bolt and get it started on the threads of the oil pump.
These engines are very tricky to align the push rod up because they lay so horizontal and not much to hold them in place well, that combined with it being shaft mounted rockers trying to make sure they all stay in place at the same time. I did see people make “holders” with rubber hose with a slit in it over the push rod then peel it off after the rockers are on.
I tried the rubber fuel line holders...didn't work too well, so I simply tightened and kept checking and repositioning the rods as I went along until they didn't pop out and the rockers were on tight.
@@DL101ca yeah it’s not fun anyway you do it really. If I ever have to do one again I’m lifting the cab off the truck to work on the engine. It don’t take long and the A/C can stay connected. Given you have a hoist. It’s worth me being able to see what I’m doing better. Plus the rads and fans suck to mess with one less thing of you lift the cab
I had that ( 0 psi and then great comp ) happen on another type of engine. The seat was falling out and holding the valve open then it go right back where it came from and run fine for a little while.
I'm about to do this same job on my 2010 Ram 1500, I thought I just had a simple exhaust leak because I had broken bolts on my exhaust manifold. But nope, my Hemi has the tick. So I will be sure to ensure my timing sprocket is at the 12 with #1 being at TDC, and to ensure my push rods are seated all the way. All good info to have when doing this job yourself
I've tried to sell oil pumps on my last 3 hemi cam jobs and they never want to do it so I've never seen the mark on the crank gear. Always scared on first start up that I got it out of time but if you know #1 piston is at TDC and your cam mark is at 12oclock you're golden. Still there is that doubt in the back of your mind, been sure of myself before and sometimes I'm wrong about things that seem certain
I agree about piston 1 being TDC and the cam at 12 o clock. I am sure my timing was fine the first time, but since it would not idle, that was the first thing that came to mind, I never thought the pushrod would have been the problem.
Sounds like you got the pushrod into a little crevasse beside the lifter bore instead of seated into the lifter. Very easy to do on the intake pushrods. Very important to turn it over by hand to verify everything's moving how it should.
I agree, it was easy to put in the wrong place. I did turn it by hand, but this was the furthest back lifter, near the firewall, and I did not notice it.
Thanks for the video, if I put a cam and lifters set in I will no to mark the timing and get pushrods seated properly. I have seen it on a different video with bald guy putting a cam and lifter set in on a challenger.
Just replaced the engine in my 2014 ram with 5.7 hemi. I believe the rough idle and “miss fires” are normal when first starting up after pulling the engine apart and such. I learned the computer just has to re-learn the engine.
I’m pretty sure that the “relearn” thing is a little exaggerated. I had to replace my engine wiring harness and went through almighty hell looking for ANY cracks, shorts,breaks, etc on my original after doing the same on the used replacement, as no OEMs exist. I found NONE on either and when I first fired it up
I just finished up a cam/lifters install on a hemi. Before I attempted it. Just like you. Research. Then bought a kit. I did not do a delete. Customers choice. Before I attempted to just fix the lifter issues. I pulled the lifters and cam. Found cam was getting signs of damage. So a new cam and lifters. I found torqued specs all over. But I had to sort thru the ones who were very unclear on instructions. I think many assumptions are taken that people who take on a job like this is simple to everyone. I took time to organize my parts in bags. Then the tireless job of cleaning parts with my pressure washer. The customers truck was very very dirty. Top end. But I got my parts and started my task. I learned the heads are only right and left only. After trying to reinstall the exhaust manifolds. And I thought I had it nailed. My stupid mistake. Bought new gaskets and bolts. Hunckerd down. Got the job done. Before I fired up the engine. I turned the engine over several times by hand to watch each of the valves were moving and remembered the short push rods were the intake. I used a mirror to line each one up. Even though...the very last exhaust push rod was not moving. I loosen up the exhaust train. Reset the push rod and retested it. Now all my intake and exhaust valves were moving. I button it up. Then I started the engine. I ran it for a minute or so. Making sure my oil pressure came up first. After about 5 starts. I finally got the engine up and running. It took about 30 minutes to finally warm up. Constantly checking oil and water temperature and levels. Checking for leaks. I didn't drive the truck until about 2 hours of checking and rechecking. Then my test drive. But no more ticking noises. After my customer got the truck. I went back to see why my lifters were stuck ? I took apart the bad lifter on #1 exhaust. After 255k on the engine. Just normal failed lifters and cam going bad. The owners wife didn't want to give up her truck. So they are glad they made the choice.
Watch reignited video when he installs heads on the 5.7. He talks about making sure the Push rods are seated correctly in the lifter and at the rocker.
It’s early life failure of lifter tiny roller needle bearings on gen3 Hemi. Designated PN ending in AA. Lifters were revised to AB with beefed up thicker needle bearings, then followed by AC revision from different supplier. AA lifter roller bearing failure and subsequent cam lobe wipe can happen to MDS and non MDS variants. MDS is not the issue or cause lifter failure. Missfire code is due to valve no longer opening sufficiently to create a combustion.
Good insight, I mentioned as well, I have heard people say the same thing, this can be MDS or non MDS. But if your working on a MDS, you might as well delete it at the same time.
@@wheelinoutwest sure, if your working that deep into engine makes sense, but simple method is to disable MDS in software permanently though if the lifters are AA early Gen3 upto 2015, lifter rollers are ticking time bombs no matter how great servicing has been or how vehicle is driven.
@@billhoman694 don’t have failure numbers. FCA won’t release numbers. Won’t be recall since it’s not life threatening or safety concern. If I was to take a guess.....any 3rd Gen VVT Hemi 2011 to 2015 with AA lifters with little needle bearings would likely have early failure no matter how well kept and easily driven, doesn’t stop the inevitable. FCA generally accept issue is rife and in cases have been known to replace engine when it fails with this symptom. Personally it would have been cheaper to issue technical bulletin on lifter issue and have dealer servicing replace lifters with stronger AC ones to mitigate the weakness.
Fantastic video... I'm going to be attempting this kit install very soon on my 2012 Grand Cherokee 5.7. It seems like most of the work is disassembling the front end of the car. Did you have to discharge the freon and remove the condenser?
Thank you thank you for posting this , I’m tackling this job this week and you don’t normally see people posting what they go through it’s nice to get some informational experience from people that have done it, because I know If that would of happened to me I wouldn’t have been able to sleep at night probably take the timing cover off first like how you said
I am in at the end of installing a new crate motor in my 2007 Charger RT. I put the solenoid delete plugs in place. Will it run right without a tune? Or will it run like crap? Thanks guys.
@@Barrylickin if you have questions message me , I couldn’t tune the 2015 ram with Hp tunner it pcm has to be unlocked first so soon when I get the unlocked pcm I’ll delete the MSD but the truck has been running really good
@@wheelinoutwest did it last night I must of not had the intake pushrod in on the lifter side and it bent replaced reassembled all is good now! Thanks again for the vid 💪👍
I have done three hemis this month due to needle bearing failure on the lifter and wiping out the cam but I have never seen one bend a pushrod just the valve not Opening.
I'm actually about to do a mds delete on one I just bought it already came with a tuner so assuming he did a delete for it already. So this is alot of help!
One thing I do want to know is if I delete it can I just install non mds lifters and cams? Ik you probably went over this but wanted to make sure before I spent $$$ lol.
Good video.. Thanks. I'm doing research now on my 19 Ram 1500 classic. Got 106k miles on it and got a bad MDS lifter. I'm looking now on getting the delete kit.
@@Spoofaged it was honestly not bad. I was really impressed how easy it was to work on this engine. It is up and running. Just getting all the parts in was the pain. Sent the heads off to get redone. Installed everything and it’s running. I was about 1500 bucks in. Hope it last at least another 20k miles lol. Good luck
@@zekemontgomery6678 that's good to hear. I made mine a bit easier to work on when I put the electric fan in. Freed up a ton of room and actually cools when I'm sitting in traffic again, so win win. Putting some shorty headers in today to get rid of the exhaust leak so I can actually hear how bad mine is. Trying to squeeze another month or 2 out of it so when I go to do it, it's not 100 degrees outside
Just a tip when doing this amount of work it takes maybe a hour if you move fast to pull the motor and trans together out the top helps a lot when doing big jobs like this to just have it out in the open
I agree it’s best out of the vehicle, which I typically do when I am working on the bottom end. However, this motor in a grand Cherokee is very tight, the bolts to the trans are a huge pita to get to. I dident feel the extra effort to pull it completely out, was worth it for this project.
Absolutely a great video. I'm in the middle of this job (2011 Charger R/T w/VVT). Thank you for the tips! I do have one question. When I install the MDS Solenoid "block-offs." what did you do with the existing harness? Just leave them unplugged sitting above the block? Appreciate any advice. Thank you!
Thanks this helps I have that issue now starts but turns off after 30 seconds or so I did the mds delete but don’t do it on the Diablo though I don’t know that so I’ll try that today and see from there if not I’m doing what you did a compression test
Are you getting misfire codes too? If you did the delete, you also need a tuner as well, to shut off the MDS so you do not get any codes. However, AMS Racing told me it still should idle without the tune, so I would start looking for any mechanical issues as well.
Yes I got a Diablo tune 3 and also purchased a custom tune from Greene racing for it I installed a comp cam comp push rods and hell cat lifters. Had the engine machined to a 20 over bore new pistons and rings. I’m getting the 0013 code which is the cam shaft position I looked it up and the truck would run but too aggressive and turns off after 30-40 seconds and I pulled one of the plugs which was wet so running real rich of course. I changed the cam sensor that located under the intake manifold and the other censor on the passenger side on the block on the out side wish I could send you some videos of what I changed so far.
When you deleted the MDS did you have to connect the MDS connectors from the harness to anything to keep the engine from throwing codes? Or did you just leave them disconnected under the intake?
I'm able to disable MDS by using manual mode on my shifter. Once rolling, I use manual shift to shift down a few gears, then back to 6. That disables MDS...
I deleted mds on my 10' Challenger. My only regret is that I didn't swap the cam. I did have psi springs installed along with some porting and polishing , already had the larger harder valve seats. Bought Crower lifters , swapped the yokes for non mds. Mds and hemi tick goodbye !
Not sure if my 4th Gen 5.7 1500 Laramie Longhorn has MDS, however When the Eco is switched off,ie tow/haul and or tranny select toggle out of OD back to +8. This prevents any tranny hunting and ticking! Tnxs 4 ur vid..very helpful....
Best way to check that all push rods are set is to just turn the motor over by hand when you have the rockers arms tighten… watch and make sure every exhaust and intake valve moves up and down. 4 rotations should put your cam timeing mark and #1 piston top dead center.
The kit is great, you just have to pay extra attention to the timing, which is easy if you pull the oil pump. Also make sure all the pushrods are sitting in place. The goal of the video was to help anyone who has an issue with idle after the install, on what problems it could be. Good luck!
Yes, you just take the middle bolt out, and it all comes off as one assembly. I installed it on the new cam, it only fits one way, then install and torque to spec.
Two questions: did you disassemble the rocker assemblies for cleaning? Did you know the rocker SHAFTS have a particular orientation to ensure proper oiling?
Can almost guarantee you put the pushrod in one of the oil passage holes lol ive done it once just doing a cam and lifters and had the same problem. Ended up cranking it and noticed the rocker not moving and figured it out pretty quick 😂😂
Great video with good info and tips. Could you give us an update 2yrs later. Did you have any more pronlems with it? Was it reliable for your neice? Is she still driving it? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you and have a blessed day.
What changes does the hardware kit make, and doesn’t just disabling the MDS in a tuner accomplish the same thing? Really curious as when I had a supercharger put on my 5.7L Hemi, they just did the MDS disable in the tuner.
You actually remove the ads solenoids, so it cannot activate, and replace the cam, with a non Mds cam, and all new lifters. You can deactivate the MDS through a tuner, but in my case, I already had to replace all these components due to a lifter failure anyway.
So I already bought the lifters and cam with mds ones and then learned about deleting it can I replace the silonouds with plugs and turn it off with tunner without getting non mds lifters and camshaft?
@@leeedelman4289 Hey there, sorry in advance for the long post, but for completeness - I recently did a top-end rebuild in my 6.4. Same lifters and MDS system in both the 5.7 and 6.4, I have photos I can show you to back these facts that are a possible point of failure. I would strongly recommend NOT putting the MDS lifter in the engine with MDS turned off in the tuner. Here is why: Look at your MDS lifters and compare to a non MDS lifter. The pin you see in the side of the MDS unit is mechanical actuator for the MDS system. When MDS is activated that pin is collapsed into the inner core of the lifter, this disengages the outer body of the MDS lifter with the inner core of the lifter. The outer body has the roller on the cam and the inner core seats the push rod. This pin-disconnect is the location for mechanical engagement or disengagment of MDS system. The pin is collapsed to the inner core when Oil pressure pushes on the pin - MDS on. Remove oil pressure from the pin and a small spring inside the lifter (NOT valve spring but a tiny lifter spring) returns the pin to its home position with only this tiny lifter spring pressure (again this is NOT valve spring pressure, but tiny lifter spring pressure) - MDS off. MDS is only activated during lower RPM situations, roughly 2500 rpm and lower, ish. It is an economy mode driving situation. One reason for low rpm operation is at higher rpm the roller has a much harder time staying in contact with the cam lobe profile (this would be true for any lifter). After peak lift, the lifter must change direction very quickly in a very short distance to maintain contact with the cam lobe, The only way this happens is through the incredible strong force of the VALVE spring pushing back on the lifter (through the rocker arm and pushrod). VALVE Spring pressure is God in the valve train. When the MDS is active, the MDS lifter is disconnected at that pin location. This means the lifter roller is disconnected from VALVE spring pressure. If that pin can not or does not return to its home location then at higher rpm your roller is 'jumping' off the cam lobe just after peak lift. At 6000 rpm the lifter roller is experiencing peak lift 50 times per second. That's gonna kick the holy living flat spot into any anything, especially a needle bearing. There is no feed back or sensors of any kind to tell the ECU that the pin is disconnected, other than a misfire code. When the MDS system is cycling on and off these pins usually make it back to their home position, if it gets stuck it has a good chance of being freed on the next cycle, ( I suppose) ,at least a much better chance then if the MDS cycle has been deleted from the ECU operations. How often could a pin really get left in the disconnected position waiting for tiny lifter spring pressure to return it home? I pulled my top end apart due to the sound of mad click one day after a good dose of spirited driving, a Hemi RAM 2500 out roll racing Audis) all eight of mine were out of position where the pin was misaligned with the hole in the outer body. some pins I could still see the pin end, others I thought the lifter had an oiling hole or some thing, pin is so far out of alignment I can't see the pin, all eight had misaligned pins and all it takes is one to trash your motor. (wont be instant catastrophic failure, you get a warning - sounds like...tick, tick,tick,tick, tick. Turn it off until you know what it is.) This pin misalignment was due to me having the MDS system turned off in the tuner for 40k plus miles. I strongly recommend if your going to turn it off be thorough and remove MDS components in their entirety, or disable at the gear selector so it has chance to cycle.dd I know lifters are expensive but the engine is way more expensive. Imagine this - no MDS anything in your Hemi, every time you start it, every time you pull into a drive thru, or drive downtown in your city, all you hear is the rumble of your exhaust, smooth and lopey exhaust no matter what rpm! no tick, no worries, just the beautiful sound of 11mpg. Nothing is so badass, nothing in my world any way! (referring to the exhaust note, the 11 mpg sucks, I just dont look! ok really its 10.4.............. and that's on the evic)
@@brett9736 Thanks for this long explanation. I have a 2016 Charger R/T. I just deleted the MDS with my Diablo Turner. After reading your comment, I believe your stating a tuner MDS delete can cause problems in the engine in the future. I will put the MDS back on. I assumed if I need the MDS off , O can always run vehicle in sports mode. It automatically disables MDS. Thanks for the info.
How much do you spend with that tracing kit I'm thinking about replacing my cam cuz I'm having problem with the lifters too and I'm going to do the same work that you did to your car
I took my time with it, and really cleaned the heads well, plus I was working with my niece and had her removing bolts, etc. I think it could be done in a long weekend. The problem is the getting to certain bolts, that are time consuming to pull off. Because I ran into issues, it took me a lot longer than it should have.
Great video..your problem was the rear push rod was in the oil hole not the lifter hole.. the holes are right next to each other. I did it myself I had to take a pic with phone to see it back there.. I'm working on a 5.7 hemi Cam replacement.(wore lobe on number 5 intake ) installed a Comp Cam, started it up ran great until it warmed up... then it snapped the camshaft doll pin.. replaced all the valves and put it back together thinking it was an oil pressure issue oil pump not pumping. installed a new pump and oil pressure was good after priming the engine and pump. started right up.. warmed up and snapped the cam pin again.. any thoughts?
That’s interesting, if the cam pin is breaking, something is not happy🤔. These motors are pretty picky about timing, so if it was running good, but still broke a pin, I am not sure.
hey did you need new valve springs for this kit or did you use what was in motor already? im looking to install this on my dads 5.7 hemi because he has some can damage
I’m doing the same job and having the same issues and I’m currently checking the pushrods. Once you put thr rocker arm on do you have any gaps/loose rockers? I figure mine aren’t primed yet but that’s what I’m finding. Minus making sure I have the rods slipped into the lifters
Good evening, my name is Alessandro Zanardi and I live in Italy, I have a RAM 1500 LARAMIE from 2018 with HEMI 5.7 motor, I would like to know if among your customers you have encountered oil pressure problems that go intermittently and breakage of the oil pump and motor due to low oil pressure. My RAM traveled about 80,000km and broke overnight. Can you give me some information if this engine has similar problems and what are the solutions to eliminate them? In Italy there are no capable mechanics like you in the USA. Thanks for your help.
Sorry to hear about your issues. An oil pump failure, can cause catastrophic damage to your engine, if the engine was run for any length of time after the failure. It could have damaged every component in your engine, and in that case, you may need a new motor. However, with out running some tests, it is hard to say. This video is more about deleting the MDS system, and some issue I ran into while doing so.
Put a 6.2 hellcat engine spec oil pump in. It’s higher volume at idle - pressure is OK just the volume of oil is the issue at idle. Hemi engines left to idle for long periods like in Police cars etc seem to have a lack of oil volume at idle. There is a solution MOPAR Part numbers: 6.2 Supercharged Hemi Helcat Oil pump is higher volume than the standard hemi 5.7 oil pump High VOLUME oil Pump (not high Pressure) 68195993AD High Volume Oil Pump 53020861 oil pick up o ring You will need the oring to seal the oil pick up. Drop the sump as low as you can at the front to reveal the oil pump Unbolt the sump and lower it down as much as you can and turn pump to the side as you remove it Use a new Oring and don’t drop the old Oring or the bolts into the sump or you are in a world of pain… This is what people should do as soon as they buy a new RAM1500 with 5.7 hemi
Hey what’s up , I have a 2012 ram 1500 5.7 , had the same issue with the MDS system, I did replace the liffters and cam shaft, use a non MDS lifters with the original cam shaft (buy new one from mopar) and u just need to turn off the MDS system with a Diablo tune, take out the solenoids that activate the MDS and use plugs (buy in amazon or eBay) locate on top off the block ( below the intake) and it should run just fine ( turn off the MDS system before replace the parts) I hope this information helps u
I cant say for sure, but I don’t know how this could affect the remote start? The delete is Purely mechanical, then you turn the mds off in the computer. It should not affect the remote start.
Mine is good cold, but warm at idle runs around 16. Prolly gonna do the hellcat pump when I do the mds delete cam and lifter swap. Supposedly it fixes the low volume/pressure at idle, but my rings might be getting worn a bit but not really interested in a full rebuild just yet
I got a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 Hemi. I’m not misfiring and the car is running good but I got a check engine for a Cylinder Bank 1 Deactivation (the MDS Solenoid) should I replace all the solenoids?
If you are pulling the intake and replacing one, you might as well replace them all. They do not come out easy, and require some effort, the plastic becomes fragile, and they break apart.
I would run an engine oil cleaner, change the oil and filter and run with the new oil for awhile to see if the code comes back. The solenoids can get clogged and will be slow to deactivate. I would even change the oil twice before attempting to change the solenoids.
I was considering buying this kit. I'm afraid it will interfere with smog regulations in California. Will the check engine light stay on with this kit?
No, you turn off the mds with the controller supplied with the kit, and you do not get a check engine light. I am not sure about passing emissions with the kit?
If I don't want it to come on in my Ram pickup, I just press the minus button, then the plus button to go to 8th gear. As long as you don't hit the plus after you are in 8th the MDS stays off.
I knew a guy that replaced a lifter in his 5.3l vortec. I asked him if he dropped his pan to check for shavings and asked if he put everything back to spec and he said it wasn't necessary. Two weeks later his motor blew up.
In my video I stated that I ended up dropping the pan, to remove the oil pump, and suggested replacing the pump as well. Everything was torqued to spec, and in sequence. I stated that you can look these all up online. This was not a step by step video, this was my overall experience with the kit. And the problem I ran into, was a pushrod was not seated correctly once I went to restart it, it is easy to have happen on this engine, as several others stated the same thing happened to them as well. This motor has been running as a daily driver for several months now, and running great.
The reason I replaced them, was because the bad lifter took out the cam lobe, so I had to tear into everything anyway, so it was a good time to replace it all anyway.
Thank-you big help.. I just got my 2014 5.7 hemi 1500 new engine kit. My mechanic abandoned the Job. 2 years know still not running? With your info. I'm going to take on the task. Thank-you much.
Thank you for posting this video. I did a MDS delete due to a damaged cam and after fitting the kit, I had problems getting her to run. Very rough running and unable to idle. I thought that I must’ve had a bad vacuum leak, so I removed the intake manifold and double checked that the individual intake gaskets hadn’t dislodged from their position.
I then remembered viewing you video several months ago when I was doing some research. I couldn’t remember the conclusion so looked back through my history and found it. So glad I did as I followed your course and compression tested each cylinder. Low and behold, number one had zero compression. Long story short, my 5.7 is an a JK Wrangler and the fit is fairly tight, that tight, due to AC lines, the only way to remove the rocker cover is by removing the alternator, power steer pump and radiator and sliding the cover forward and out. So when I installed the pushrods, I hadn’t seated one in the lifter, causing my issue. But due to your video, you saved me time and a lot of aggravation and assisted me in sorting it out. Many thanks again.🍺
That’s awesome! I am glad this helped you out! Thanks for the comment!
Started the MDS delete on my brother's hemi last night. Glad I watched this video. When I get the valve covers on I'm going to do a compression test on all cylinders just so I don't have to backtrack. Thanks for the video.
Don't feel bad. Due to the way the lifters and pushrods lay almost horizontal, they almost NEVER want to stay in the cups and where they are supposed to during assembly. 95% of the time when a hemi of that type is put together and everything was fine but now it won't run.... its what you ran into. And the back cylinders are the usual culprits because it's hard to see, like you said. Your advice was also spot on. I compression test every motor once the valve train is assembled to double check for just that. About a quarter of the time when I first crank it... I'll hear a loud "TINK" as one of the pushrods slips either INto or OUT of the cup. Lol.
Thanks for the info! That’s good to know!
How come no check engine light for a misfire when this happens??
That's crazy to go through all of that to disable MDS... Like a lot of things, Chrysler should have given the owner the option to disable MDS with a simple switch.
There are small things people do with Tow/Haul mode and such that people claim with turn off ads while driving. You can also turn it off with a tuner, in my case the cam was already damaged, so I did the delete while in there.
A Pulsar in line engine tuner gives the option to turn off tat 4cylinder option and it just plugs straight in
I Have an in-line engine tuner that turns it off but it was not cheap (Pulsar)
There are easy ways to disable it such as tow/haul or using the gear limiter. However, the main issue with doing that is that it doesn't address the oiling issue, especially at idle. By removing the solenoids, it increases the oil flow and pressure to the lifters 100% of the time. With the mds, the higher pressure is only applied to the lifters during mds activation which is what causes them to work.
@@secretdad544 l
Thanks for the trouble shooting tips man. It’s always nice when people show the real world problems you run into when taking on these kinds of projects. It’s never self explanatory. Lol. I have a 2014 ram 1500. I found that it’s the pushrods not seating properly on the intake side, so they slip out of the seat once the engine rotated over. Luckily I manually turned the engine over and found that the #3 cylinder pushrod slipped out so no harm no foul, but I definitely would have had the same idoling issue if I tried running it. Thanks again for the post! Really helped me to avoid those pitfalls before I started.
Thanks for the feedback, multiple others have stated having the same issue as well, so I am glad that you got something from it!
It's because when you disable the MDS, the lifter ports with the MDS lifters are now not pressurized causing poor lifter/roller lubrication and rubes down the cam and can cause a bent pushrod.....
Thank you for taking the time to share that information I have considered purchasing a modern hemi truck but intend to delete the MDS right away before any issues arise.
I hope it was helpful.
@@wheelinoutwest It was, I’ve been avoiding newer Mopar gas engines for a while because of the horrific reputation of MDS so I stuck with Diesels. But I wanted a lighter commuter and heard you could delete MDS. No one else covered the lessons learned with this swap. So once again thanks!
Good job man! All part of wrench. Keeping it simple and going back to basic is always the smart place to start.
Thanks for the comment!
I have an Aspen with the 5.7, and have 260k on it; I rebuilt it looking for the lifter/ cam issue, and all the parts inside looked practically new. Just wanted to let everyone know that this is the easiest motor I’ve ever worked on. I will drive this until it rusts into the ground. Motor is a beast. What other suv can tow 8000 pounds
Thanks for sharing, I agree they are a good motor.
the new RT Durango with Tow N Go package can tow 8700 Pounds
I have a 07 also I'm slowly working on
I have a 09 ram 1500 5.7 over 300000 never had a bolt turned on it.
I just completed a 2009 VCT 5.7 VCT delete and added a distributor drive gear to a 2006 timing chain set to drive A GM distributor. Installed the older now modified chain set , a GM distributor with ford 4.2 v6 drive gears and had to fix the lifters. If you take out the bad lifters ( ones with loose rollers, not locked up) and press out the roller pin, you'll notice part of the pin is worn down but the roller and needles are fine....usually. Find some GM 3.8L series 2 v6 roller lifters and press the pins out of them to replace the bad ones on the hemi. Im a cheap ass and find a way around shelling out $400+ on lifters, Ford 3.0L V6 OHV roller lifters have the same pins. If needles are damaged, swap out the pin and rollers as well, they fit the hemi lifters. Sub merge lifter in oil and pump them up before install, this will prevent bending pushrods, and they are also different lengths so watch out.
Good video. Well done. Congrats on the repair.
Thanks!
Thanks for posting this, I thought I was the only guy that got to do some of my engine work twice!! Nice! on not quitting the build and getting it done!! Got a P1416 code on my GC been parked since it started acting up but now it is time to get her done! H2O pump ,T stat and MDS 6 Just might consider the delete kit!
Nice, good luck with your project, I wouldn’t hesitate doing it again, if I found another hemi that needed it.
Thanks! A lot of good info here. I will also add/reinforce: The problem is, the engine oil may get old without you realizing, and then... Change the engine oil no more than 4k, regardless of "oil life" reading. Also be mindful of the operating hours as this will further break the oil on a "low mile" service interval if it has mostly idling. Consider 200 hours to be the limit here. Use premium oil and filters. Do this and your Hemi's lifters/cam will last well past 200k, regardless of when it was built. The sooner you are able to do this, the better. This is even MORE important on a higher mileage engine, which will require even shorter oil change intervals as the rate of oil contamination increases.
Thanks for Sharing, increased oil changes can never hurt.
@@frivera735 To be clear, you have a misfire, and you are planning to just do the tuner, or the entire delete kit. The reason I ask, if you have a misfire, you may already have to do mechanical work, the cam may be damaged. I change oil by the manufacturers recommendations, but changing it early can never hurt anything.
It's because when you disable the MDS, the lifter ports with the MDS lifters are now not pressurized causing poor lifter/roller lubrication and rubes down the cam and can cause a bent pushrod.....
Been using Amsoil Signature 0w -20 and found it runs well with high oil pressure
Oil was expensive so going to run out to 20,000 km and do
An oil sample Test kit (komatsu do them for $40 they analyse the oil for contaminants)
I fitted the hellcat high volume oil pump and I feel from the engine lack of valve train noise it’s still lubricating well after 10,000 country highway kilometres
changing every 5000km is a good idea but I am going to use top quality Amsoil signature low viscosity oil and just see how far I can safely go before a hint of valve train noise or 20,000km whichever comes first
Great VIDEO my friend! And awesome that you kept trying to double check yourself. Good info!
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback!
Thanks man for the tips, greatly appreciated, looking forward to seeing more..
Thanks for watching!
@@wheelinoutwest your welcome very much
Thanks you for the lessons learned. Very helpful as it is a bear to pull all of the timing off.
Thanks, glad it was helpful!
Thank you for posting this!
Thanks for watching!
I've done this also on a 2010 ram 1500 5.7, to remove the mds solenoids cut a small piece of 2x4 or whatever small scrap wood you have and place the end on the top of the solenoid and lightly tap the opposite end of the wood with a hammer, the solenoids will then turn and slide out super easy with absolutely no damage!
Thanks for sharing.
Awesome to hear it works, going to try this kit in my Ram now that the cams gone
How did it go?
Ended up just replacing with MDS cam kit from enginetech so far so good, big job though took me 4 days !
Glad you got your issues worked out!
Thanks!
Thank you for taking time aside for the great tips!
Thanks for the comment!
It was helpful. 2nd time I've seen the exact same problem . I will know to make sure the push rods are seated properly. Especially that area.
Thanks for the comment, glad it was helpful!
Yes thank you very much, things to note
Thanks!
Hey, I had to do the same thing on a 2013 ram and it was my first time doing it and I have few videos out on youtube the problem ran into is the handheld tuner
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
Cheapest way to avoid this on a 5.7 hemi is to replace the mds solenoids with new ones and then use a tuner to disable it on the system. That way you don't need to change anything. I suggest replacing the mds solenoids so you don't risk lifter failure in the future.
Yes, I read that. That disabling MDS keeps RPMS higher offering more lube to the lifters thus no lifter failure. I also read that MOST of the lifter damage is caused by idling for long periods of time.
My Uncle works for Ford but they do work on police Chargers all the time as well. He told me they had many lifter failures and cam wear (due to idling so often) but they damn near cured the issue simply by adding Lucas Oil lubricant to their oil. It raises oil pressure a bit (even at idle), and reduces wear on the cam and lifters. Ive got a 2020 Charger with 38k miles and will definitely add the Lucal Oil lubricant in my next oil change.
@@NickB1121 how much do you add?
@@wilkin1944 I add half a quart at each oil change. 6 and a half quarts Castro full synthetic and half quart of Lucas Oil supplement.
@@NickB1121 Lucas is junk. Sorry. It is just a thickener no real additional additives
Yeah and you went about it the right way to you didn't have to take a bunch of unnecessary s*** off good job diagnosing
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Thanks good job yes if you fix an engine that deep you are a mechanic 👍
Thanks, appreciate it!
Wow, I did the same thing. And took the same step as you did to pin point it, a compression test found it
Nice, glad you could find it!
Reignite youtube videos really stresses about how hard it is to get the push rod in the rockers. Great video, thank you.
Thats good to know, there have been quite a few people have this same issue, hopefully it helps someone going through a similar issue.
You don't need to remove the oil pan to remove the oil pump. After unscrewing the pump, just turn it and unscrew the pickup tube. Just be careful that the screw and the O-ring do not fall into the oil pan. This is also described in the service manual for this engine.
I tried that first, but I could not get the bolt on the pick up tube off, that's hard to get to without dropping the pan.
@@wheelinoutwest next time, use a 13 wrench. If you have to do this again, come to my page
It's almost impossible on the truck version. They say there are extras hold downs on the pick up tube. On mine you can not slide oil pump left or right. Even with the chain guards out.
It's because when you disable the MDS, the lifter ports with the MDS lifters are now not pressurized causing poor lifter/roller lubrication and rubes down the cam and can cause a bent pushrod.....
@@63crosenberger Reinstalling is the issue if you don't take off the oil pan. You can get the oil pickup bolt off the oil pump by turning the pump clockwise, but getting it back on to thread and tighten is a test of patience , dexterity and creativity. I used fishing line on my bolt coiled counter clockwise on the threads, used my finger to hold in place and pulled on the fishing line to spin the bolt and get it started on the threads of the oil pump.
These engines are very tricky to align the push rod up because they lay so horizontal and not much to hold them in place well, that combined with it being shaft mounted rockers trying to make sure they all stay in place at the same time. I did see people make “holders” with rubber hose with a slit in it over the push rod then peel it off after the rockers are on.
Thanks for the input, the holders would be a great idea!!
I tried the rubber fuel line holders...didn't work too well, so I simply tightened and kept checking and repositioning the rods as I went along until they didn't pop out and the rockers were on tight.
@@DL101ca yeah it’s not fun anyway you do it really. If I ever have to do one again I’m lifting the cab off the truck to work on the engine. It don’t take long and the A/C can stay connected. Given you have a hoist. It’s worth me being able to see what I’m doing better. Plus the rads and fans suck to mess with one less thing of you lift the cab
I had that ( 0 psi and then great comp ) happen on another type of engine. The seat was falling out and holding the valve open then it go right back where it came from and run fine for a little while.
interesting, thanks for sharing!
I'm about to do this same job on my 2010 Ram 1500, I thought I just had a simple exhaust leak because I had broken bolts on my exhaust manifold. But nope, my Hemi has the tick. So I will be sure to ensure my timing sprocket is at the 12 with #1 being at TDC, and to ensure my push rods are seated all the way. All good info to have when doing this job yourself
Good luck with your project!
Man get it checked first. This cam issue is blown waaaay the hell out of proportion . There are many well documented high mileage hemi rams .
Thanks for the information. Very helpful
Thanks! I hope it was helpful!
I've tried to sell oil pumps on my last 3 hemi cam jobs and they never want to do it so I've never seen the mark on the crank gear. Always scared on first start up that I got it out of time but if you know #1 piston is at TDC and your cam mark is at 12oclock you're golden. Still there is that doubt in the back of your mind, been sure of myself before and sometimes I'm wrong about things that seem certain
Actually on my first hemi head gasket job I had one of the exhaust pushrods in the wrong hole 😲 could not figure out why it wouldn't stay running
I agree about piston 1 being TDC and the cam at 12 o clock. I am sure my timing was fine the first time, but since it would not idle, that was the first thing that came to mind, I never thought the pushrod would have been the problem.
Easy to just check by turning the crank by hand before starting it to make sure pistons aren't hitting the valves.
@@DL101ca Thats a good point, I did that without spark plugs the first time, to be sure nothing was going to hit.
Do you think if your one tooth off on the crank the valves would hit?
This bloke a true MOPAR lover even his moustache is the letter M for MOPAR
I would say I like Chevy and mopar about the same, I even have a ford truck.
Well Done, Great Video
Thank you very much!
Sounds like you got the pushrod into a little crevasse beside the lifter bore instead of seated into the lifter. Very easy to do on the intake pushrods. Very important to turn it over by hand to verify everything's moving how it should.
I agree, it was easy to put in the wrong place. I did turn it by hand, but this was the furthest back lifter, near the firewall, and I did not notice it.
@@wheelinoutwest well, glad it all worked out
Thanks for the video, if I put a cam and lifters set in I will no to mark the timing and get pushrods seated properly. I have seen it on a different video with bald guy putting a cam and lifter set in on a challenger.
There is another video from an MDS kit maker, that shows how they mark the timing as well, that was informative.
Just replaced the engine in my 2014 ram with 5.7 hemi. I believe the rough idle and “miss fires” are normal when first starting up after pulling the engine apart and such. I learned the computer just has to re-learn the engine.
As soon as I corrected the issue, of the pushrod not seated it ran perfectly the next time I fired it up.
I’m pretty sure that the “relearn” thing is a little exaggerated. I had to replace my engine wiring harness and went through almighty hell looking for ANY cracks, shorts,breaks, etc on my original after doing the same on the used replacement, as no OEMs exist. I found NONE on either and when I first fired it up
I just finished up a cam/lifters install on a hemi. Before I attempted it. Just like you. Research. Then bought a kit. I did not do a delete. Customers choice.
Before I attempted to just fix the lifter issues. I pulled the lifters and cam. Found cam was getting signs of damage. So a new cam and lifters.
I found torqued specs all over. But I had to sort thru the ones who were very unclear on instructions. I think many assumptions are taken that people who take on a job like this is simple to everyone.
I took time to organize my parts in bags.
Then the tireless job of cleaning parts with my pressure washer. The customers truck was very very dirty. Top end. But I got my parts and started my task. I learned the heads are only right and left only. After trying to reinstall the exhaust manifolds. And I thought I had it nailed. My stupid mistake.
Bought new gaskets and bolts.
Hunckerd down. Got the job done.
Before I fired up the engine. I turned the engine over several times by hand to watch each of the valves were moving and remembered the short push rods were the intake. I used a mirror to line each one up.
Even though...the very last exhaust push rod was not moving. I loosen up the exhaust train. Reset the push rod and retested it. Now all my intake and exhaust valves were moving.
I button it up. Then I started the engine. I ran it for a minute or so. Making sure my oil pressure came up first. After about 5 starts. I finally got the engine up and running. It took about 30 minutes to finally warm up. Constantly checking oil and water temperature and levels. Checking for leaks. I didn't drive the truck until about 2 hours of checking and rechecking. Then my test drive.
But no more ticking noises.
After my customer got the truck. I went back to see why my lifters were stuck ?
I took apart the bad lifter on #1 exhaust.
After 255k on the engine. Just normal failed lifters and cam going bad.
The owners wife didn't want to give up her truck. So they are glad they made the choice.
Watch reignited video when he installs heads on the 5.7. He talks about making sure the Push rods are seated correctly in the lifter and at the rocker.
It’s early life failure of lifter tiny roller needle bearings on gen3 Hemi. Designated PN ending in AA. Lifters were revised to AB with beefed up thicker needle bearings, then followed by AC revision from different supplier. AA lifter roller bearing failure and subsequent cam lobe wipe can happen to MDS and non MDS variants. MDS is not the issue or cause lifter failure. Missfire code is due to valve no longer opening sufficiently to create a combustion.
Good insight, I mentioned as well, I have heard people say the same thing, this can be MDS or non MDS. But if your working on a MDS, you might as well delete it at the same time.
@@wheelinoutwest sure, if your working that deep into engine makes sense, but simple method is to disable MDS in software permanently though if the lifters are AA early Gen3 upto 2015, lifter rollers are ticking time bombs no matter how great servicing has been or how vehicle is driven.
So, it's a roller needle bearing issue? If so many are having this issue. I'm amazed there has yet to be a huge recall.
@@billhoman694 don’t have failure numbers. FCA won’t release numbers. Won’t be recall since it’s not life threatening or safety concern.
If I was to take a guess.....any 3rd Gen VVT Hemi 2011 to 2015 with AA lifters with little needle bearings would likely have early failure no matter how well kept and easily driven, doesn’t stop the inevitable. FCA generally accept issue is rife and in cases have been known to replace engine when it fails with this symptom. Personally it would have been cheaper to issue technical bulletin on lifter issue and have dealer servicing replace lifters with stronger AC ones to mitigate the weakness.
@@billhoman694 Yeah, it typically in pretty high mileage vehicles from what I understand, over 100,000 miles. Mine had almost 130,000.
Fantastic video... I'm going to be attempting this kit install very soon on my 2012 Grand Cherokee 5.7. It seems like most of the work is disassembling the front end of the car. Did you have to discharge the freon and remove the condenser?
Yes, I did have to move the A/C lines out of the way, you need all the room you can get! Thanks!
Thank you thank you for posting this , I’m tackling this job this week and you don’t normally see people posting what they go through it’s nice to get some informational experience from people that have done it, because I know If that would of happened to me I wouldn’t have been able to sleep at night probably take the timing cover off first like how you said
I hope you found it helpful! Thanks for the comment!
I am in at the end of installing a new crate motor in my 2007 Charger RT. I put the solenoid delete plugs in place. Will it run right without a tune? Or will it run like crap? Thanks guys.
@@Barrylickin I’ve read that it depends! So I finish doing the 2015 Ram and I turned it on and it ran fine ! It’s been a month and still running good
@@Barrylickin if you have questions message me , I couldn’t tune the 2015 ram with Hp tunner it pcm has to be unlocked first so soon when I get the unlocked pcm I’ll delete the MSD but the truck has been running really good
I recently got an 06 jeep srt8 for free! Im going to rebuild mine with new internal upgrades soon, a bit sad because she is down at the moment
That sounds like a good deal!
Thank you for the info 👍
Thanks for watching!
Thanks sir just wrapped up my second mds delete job and 2 and 3 misfire sounds a little tickey time to pull these VC back off
Hopefully you get it resolved!
@@wheelinoutwest did it last night I must of not had the intake pushrod in on the lifter side and it bent replaced reassembled all is good now! Thanks again for the vid 💪👍
I have done three hemis this month due to needle bearing failure on the lifter and wiping out the cam but I have never seen one bend a pushrod just the valve not Opening.
Thats interesting, thanks for sharing.
I'm actually about to do a mds delete on one I just bought it already came with a tuner so assuming he did a delete for it already. So this is alot of help!
I hope it helps!
One thing I do want to know is if I delete it can I just install non mds lifters and cams? Ik you probably went over this but wanted to make sure before I spent $$$ lol.
@@gatgat01 I would do the solenoid block off as well, as that system is all tied together.
@@wheelinoutwest ok awesome thanks!
Very informative thanks.
Thanks for the comment!
Thank you helped a lot
I am glad to hear!
Did this kit seem to add horsepower as well. Looking into this kit, figured if I camming it, might as well put a nice one in.
No, it does have some different tunes, but I just kept it all on the 87 octane tune. There is a tune for 91, but am not sure if it adds much HP.
Good video.. Thanks. I'm doing research now on my 19 Ram 1500 classic. Got 106k miles on it and got a bad MDS lifter. I'm looking now on getting the delete kit.
Let us know how it works out!
Same here I’m looking to get a shop to do the delete for me. Sometimes it Ticks and sometimes it doesn’t.
Very good video in the middle of doing this to my ram
Thanks, good luck with your project!
I used a Diablo turner . It's off I'm always in V8 mode no problems . 2 years in
Great info thx buddy!
Thanks!
I tore mine apart today. Bad lifter and damaged cam. Hope I can get it all back up and running
We were able to get ours running, so there is still hope for yours! Good luck!
How did it go Zeke? I'm not too far away from diving in
@@Spoofaged it was honestly not bad. I was really impressed how easy it was to work on this engine. It is up and running. Just getting all the parts in was the pain. Sent the heads off to get redone. Installed everything and it’s running. I was about 1500 bucks in. Hope it last at least another 20k miles lol. Good luck
@@zekemontgomery6678 that's good to hear. I made mine a bit easier to work on when I put the electric fan in. Freed up a ton of room and actually cools when I'm sitting in traffic again, so win win. Putting some shorty headers in today to get rid of the exhaust leak so I can actually hear how bad mine is. Trying to squeeze another month or 2 out of it so when I go to do it, it's not 100 degrees outside
Just a tip when doing this amount of work it takes maybe a hour if you move fast to pull the motor and trans together out the top helps a lot when doing big jobs like this to just have it out in the open
Don’t even have to take the exhaust manifolds off then
I agree it’s best out of the vehicle, which I typically do when I am working on the bottom end. However, this motor in a grand Cherokee is very tight, the bolts to the trans are a huge pita to get to. I dident feel the extra effort to pull it completely out, was worth it for this project.
Absolutely a great video. I'm in the middle of this job (2011 Charger R/T w/VVT). Thank you for the tips! I do have one question. When I install the MDS Solenoid "block-offs." what did you do with the existing harness? Just leave them unplugged sitting above the block? Appreciate any advice. Thank you!
What kit did you use bro I’m trying to find a non mds kit on my 2013 charger 5.7 or would the ams racing kit fit my car as well?
Thanks this helps I have that issue now starts but turns off after 30 seconds or so I did the mds delete but don’t do it on the Diablo though I don’t know that so I’ll try that today and see from there if not I’m doing what you did a compression test
Are you getting misfire codes too? If you did the delete, you also need a tuner as well, to shut off the MDS so you do not get any codes. However, AMS Racing told me it still should idle without the tune, so I would start looking for any mechanical issues as well.
Yes I got a Diablo tune 3 and also purchased a custom tune from Greene racing for it I installed a comp cam comp push rods and hell cat lifters. Had the engine machined to a 20 over bore new pistons and rings. I’m getting the 0013 code which is the cam shaft position I looked it up and the truck would run but too aggressive and turns off after 30-40 seconds and I pulled one of the plugs which was wet so running real rich of course. I changed the cam sensor that located under the intake manifold and the other censor on the passenger side on the block on the out side wish I could send you some videos of what I changed so far.
Plus my Diablo don’t have that option I see you talked about the mds which I did get the delete kit with the plugs and everything
@@El_verde I see, you have done more work than just the stock engine, like mine was. This is a little different situation than mine was.
When you deleted the MDS did you have to connect the MDS connectors from the harness to anything to keep the engine from throwing codes? Or did you just leave them disconnected under the intake?
I just left them disconnected under the intake. The programmer turns off the MDS, which keeps you from getting any codes.
Good job man
Thanks for the feedback!
I'm able to disable MDS by using manual mode on my shifter. Once rolling, I use manual shift to shift down a few gears, then back to 6. That disables MDS...
It’s 3 options to get rid of the mds is to Buy the Diablo tune or get it properly tuned or just do the complete mds delete…
I deleted mds on my 10' Challenger. My only regret is that I didn't swap the cam. I did have psi springs installed along with some porting and polishing , already had the larger harder valve seats. Bought Crower lifters , swapped the yokes for non mds. Mds and hemi tick goodbye !
Nice, my cam was destroyed already, so that's why I replaced mine. Thanks for sharing.
Not sure if my 4th Gen 5.7 1500 Laramie Longhorn has MDS, however
When the Eco is switched off,ie tow/haul and or tranny select toggle out of OD back to +8. This prevents any tranny hunting and ticking!
Tnxs 4 ur vid..very helpful....
Best way to check that all push rods are set is to just turn the motor over by hand when you have the rockers arms tighten… watch and make sure every exhaust and intake valve moves up and down. 4 rotations should put your cam timeing mark and #1 piston top dead center.
That is a good idea! Thanks
I'm a lil worried now I got this same kit and supposed to be getting it put on this week
The kit is great, you just have to pay extra attention to the timing, which is easy if you pull the oil pump. Also make sure all the pushrods are sitting in place. The goal of the video was to help anyone who has an issue with idle after the install, on what problems it could be. Good luck!
You should probably use the Mopar oil filter!
That filter was not on there very long after start up, and it was replaced.
do you use the same cam gear and spring or do you delete the spring???
Did you leave the cam gear spring on when you did MDS delete ???
Yes, you just take the middle bolt out, and it all comes off as one assembly. I installed it on the new cam, it only fits one way, then install and torque to spec.
Two questions: did you disassemble the rocker assemblies for cleaning? Did you know the rocker SHAFTS have a particular orientation to ensure proper oiling?
Yes, I had read about that.
Can almost guarantee you put the pushrod in one of the oil passage holes lol ive done it once just doing a cam and lifters and had the same problem. Ended up cranking it and noticed the rocker not moving and figured it out pretty quick 😂😂
That’s exactly what I did, I didn’t notice it as easily as it was the furthest back cylinder to the firewall. It was kind of hard to see.
if you are in california and the tuner kit changes the program id in any way it might fail a smog test even if it does not set codes
Thats a good point!
Hello, did you increase the oil pressure or left the original pump? Thank you
I left the original pump, but I should have at least replaced it.
The pressure can't be increased because the pump is crank driven. It has its own regulated pressure based on rpm
Great video with good info and tips. Could you give us an update 2yrs later. Did you have any more pronlems with it? Was it reliable for your neice? Is she still driving it? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you and have a blessed day.
So far so good, the vehicle is back at my brother in laws, but still running as far as I know.
What changes does the hardware kit make, and doesn’t just disabling the MDS in a tuner accomplish the same thing? Really curious as when I had a supercharger put on my 5.7L Hemi, they just did the MDS disable in the tuner.
You actually remove the ads solenoids, so it cannot activate, and replace the cam, with a non Mds cam, and all new lifters. You can deactivate the MDS through a tuner, but in my case, I already had to replace all these components due to a lifter failure anyway.
@@wheelinoutwest gotcha 👍🏻
So I already bought the lifters and cam with mds ones and then learned about deleting it can I replace the silonouds with plugs and turn it off with tunner without getting non mds lifters and camshaft?
@@leeedelman4289 Hey there, sorry in advance for the long post, but for completeness - I recently did a top-end rebuild in my 6.4. Same lifters and MDS system in both the 5.7 and 6.4, I have photos I can show you to back these facts that are a possible point of failure. I would strongly recommend NOT putting the MDS lifter in the engine with MDS turned off in the tuner. Here is why:
Look at your MDS lifters and compare to a non MDS lifter. The pin you see in the side of the MDS unit is mechanical actuator for the MDS system. When MDS is activated that pin is collapsed into the inner core of the lifter, this disengages the outer body of the MDS lifter with the inner core of the lifter. The outer body has the roller on the cam and the inner core seats the push rod. This pin-disconnect is the location for mechanical engagement or disengagment of MDS system.
The pin is collapsed to the inner core when Oil pressure pushes on the pin - MDS on. Remove oil pressure from the pin and a small spring inside the lifter (NOT valve spring but a tiny lifter spring) returns the pin to its home position with only this tiny lifter spring pressure (again this is NOT valve spring pressure, but tiny lifter spring pressure) - MDS off.
MDS is only activated during lower RPM situations, roughly 2500 rpm and lower, ish. It is an economy mode driving situation. One reason for low rpm operation is at higher rpm the roller has a much harder time staying in contact with the cam lobe profile (this would be true for any lifter). After peak lift, the lifter must change direction very quickly in a very short distance to maintain contact with the cam lobe, The only way this happens is through the incredible strong force of the VALVE spring pushing back on the lifter (through the rocker arm and pushrod). VALVE Spring pressure is God in the valve train.
When the MDS is active, the MDS lifter is disconnected at that pin location. This means the lifter roller is disconnected from VALVE spring pressure. If that pin can not or does not return to its home location then at higher rpm your roller is 'jumping' off the cam lobe just after peak lift. At 6000 rpm the lifter roller is experiencing peak lift 50 times per second. That's gonna kick the holy living flat spot into any anything, especially a needle bearing.
There is no feed back or sensors of any kind to tell the ECU that the pin is disconnected, other than a misfire code.
When the MDS system is cycling on and off these pins usually make it back to their home position, if it gets stuck it has a good chance of being freed on the next cycle, ( I suppose) ,at least a much better chance then if the MDS cycle has been deleted from the ECU operations.
How often could a pin really get left in the disconnected position waiting for tiny lifter spring pressure to return it home? I pulled my top end apart due to the sound of mad click one day after a good dose of spirited driving, a Hemi RAM 2500 out roll racing Audis) all eight of mine were out of position where the pin was misaligned with the hole in the outer body. some pins I could still see the pin end, others I thought the lifter had an oiling hole or some thing, pin is so far out of alignment I can't see the pin, all eight had misaligned pins and all it takes is one to trash your motor. (wont be instant catastrophic failure, you get a warning - sounds like...tick, tick,tick,tick, tick. Turn it off until you know what it is.)
This pin misalignment was due to me having the MDS system turned off in the tuner for 40k plus miles. I strongly recommend if your going to turn it off be thorough and remove MDS components in their entirety, or disable at the gear selector so it has chance to cycle.dd
I know lifters are expensive but the engine is way more expensive. Imagine this - no MDS anything in your Hemi, every time you start it, every time you pull into a drive thru, or drive downtown in your city, all you hear is the rumble of your exhaust, smooth and lopey exhaust no matter what rpm! no tick, no worries, just the beautiful sound of 11mpg. Nothing is so badass, nothing in my world any way! (referring to the exhaust note, the 11 mpg sucks, I just dont look! ok really its 10.4.............. and that's on the evic)
@@brett9736 Thanks for this long explanation. I have a 2016 Charger R/T. I just deleted the MDS with my Diablo Turner. After reading your comment, I believe your stating a tuner MDS delete can cause problems in the engine in the future. I will put the MDS back on. I assumed if I need the MDS off , O can always run vehicle in sports mode. It automatically disables MDS. Thanks for the info.
You are awesome
Thanks!
Great job. But how did you black-out the top section of the steering wheel? Looks way better than the wood effect, in my opinion
How much do you spend with that tracing kit I'm thinking about replacing my cam cuz I'm having problem with the lifters too and I'm going to do the same work that you did to your car
I took my time with it, and really cleaned the heads well, plus I was working with my niece and had her removing bolts, etc. I think it could be done in a long weekend. The problem is the getting to certain bolts, that are time consuming to pull off. Because I ran into issues, it took me a lot longer than it should have.
Great video..your problem was the rear push rod was in the oil hole not the lifter hole.. the holes are right next to each other. I did it myself I had to take a pic with phone to see it back there.. I'm working on a 5.7 hemi Cam replacement.(wore lobe on number 5 intake ) installed a Comp Cam, started it up ran great until it warmed up... then it snapped the camshaft doll pin.. replaced all the valves and put it back together thinking it was an oil pressure issue oil pump not pumping. installed a new pump and oil pressure was good after priming the engine and pump. started right up.. warmed up and snapped the cam pin again.. any thoughts?
That’s interesting, if the cam pin is breaking, something is not happy🤔. These motors are pretty picky about timing, so if it was running good, but still broke a pin, I am not sure.
hey did you need new valve springs for this kit or did you use what was in motor already? im looking to install this on my dads 5.7 hemi because he has some can damage
I never replaced the springs, I used what was in the motor, the kit came with everything I needed.
I have 260,000kms on my 09 eagle Hemi. MDS still active and I have no Hemi tick
I’m doing the same job and having the same issues and I’m currently checking the pushrods. Once you put thr rocker arm on do you have any gaps/loose rockers? I figure mine aren’t primed yet but that’s what I’m finding. Minus making sure I have the rods slipped into the lifters
I don’t think there are gaps, but there may be a little play, cranking the motor over by hand helps too.
Good evening, my name is Alessandro Zanardi and I live in Italy, I have a RAM 1500 LARAMIE from 2018 with HEMI 5.7 motor, I would like to know if among your customers you have encountered oil pressure problems that go intermittently and breakage of the oil pump and motor due to low oil pressure. My RAM traveled about 80,000km and broke overnight.
Can you give me some information if this engine has similar problems and what are the solutions to eliminate them?
In Italy there are no capable mechanics like you in the USA.
Thanks for your help.
Sorry to hear about your issues. An oil pump failure, can cause catastrophic damage to your engine, if the engine was run for any length of time after the failure. It could have damaged every component in your engine, and in that case, you may need a new motor. However, with out running some tests, it is hard to say. This video is more about deleting the MDS system, and some issue I ran into while doing so.
Put a 6.2 hellcat engine spec oil pump in. It’s higher volume at idle - pressure is OK just the volume of oil is the issue at idle.
Hemi engines left to idle for long periods like in Police cars etc seem to have a lack of oil volume at idle.
There is a solution
MOPAR Part numbers:
6.2 Supercharged Hemi Helcat Oil pump is higher volume than the standard hemi 5.7 oil pump
High VOLUME oil Pump (not high Pressure)
68195993AD
High Volume Oil Pump
53020861
oil pick up o ring
You will need the oring to seal the oil pick up.
Drop the sump as low as you can at the front to reveal the oil pump
Unbolt the sump and lower it down as much as you can
and turn pump to the side as you remove it
Use a new Oring and don’t drop the old Oring or the bolts into the sump or you are in a world of pain…
This is what people should do as soon as they buy a new RAM1500 with 5.7 hemi
I heard you can use non mds lifters with MDs cam just need tune/programming ??
Hey what’s up , I have a 2012 ram 1500 5.7 , had the same issue with the MDS system, I did replace the liffters and cam shaft, use a non MDS lifters with the original cam shaft (buy new one from mopar) and u just need to turn off the MDS system with a Diablo tune, take out the solenoids that activate the MDS and use plugs (buy in amazon or eBay) locate on top off the block ( below the intake) and it should run just fine ( turn off the MDS system before replace the parts) I hope this information helps u
Not sure, but I would think you would have to delete the mds solenoids as well, hence the tune.
Thankyou..... I got a ? Will the remote start work if you delete a 08 dodge 1500 5.7 any advise is greatly appreciated 👍
I cant say for sure, but I don’t know how this could affect the remote start? The delete is Purely mechanical, then you turn the mds off in the computer. It should not affect the remote start.
The lifters fail mostly due to the vvt for whatever reason, pre eagle hemis don't have lifter problems and the lifters and oil situation are the same
Has nothing to do with mds since manuals have the problem as well
Did you get low oil pressure after cam/lifter swap ? Mines reads 16psi while parked but has 45psi while driving
No, I did not notice low oil pressure, it all seemed to be pretty good.
Mine is good cold, but warm at idle runs around 16. Prolly gonna do the hellcat pump when I do the mds delete cam and lifter swap. Supposedly it fixes the low volume/pressure at idle, but my rings might be getting worn a bit but not really interested in a full rebuild just yet
huh, now i was looking how to install the mds on my older hemi
I would not install it on something that does not have it.
I got a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 Hemi. I’m not misfiring and the car is running good but I got a check engine for a Cylinder Bank 1 Deactivation (the MDS Solenoid) should I replace all the solenoids?
If you are pulling the intake and replacing one, you might as well replace them all. They do not come out easy, and require some effort, the plastic becomes fragile, and they break apart.
I would run an engine oil cleaner, change the oil and filter and run with the new oil for awhile to see if the code comes back. The solenoids can get clogged and will be slow to deactivate. I would even change the oil twice before attempting to change the solenoids.
After it cranked but no idle and you found out it was just a pushrod issue, did you turn the motor again to line up the timing marks?
Well, I had already pulled everything off the front of the motor, to recheck the timing, and everything was fine.
DID YOU HAVE TO PLUG THE CONNECTORS IN SOMEWHERE THAT CAME OFF THE MDS ?
I just left them unplugged, and zip tied them to secure them to something.
doing a MDS delete on my car with new “hellcat” lifters and non mds cam, can I disable the MDS through my Trinity T2? Or do I need a custom tune?
I am not familiar with the Trinity, I used the diablsport. It was very easy to shut off with the Diablo sport. I would do a quick search on google.
great video, still running good?
Thanks, it has still been running good. I think the Hemi is a good motor overall.
I was considering buying this kit. I'm afraid it will interfere with smog regulations in California. Will the check engine light stay on with this kit?
No, you turn off the mds with the controller supplied with the kit, and you do not get a check engine light. I am not sure about passing emissions with the kit?
Using the Diablo tuner I turned off MDS with absolutely zero issues
No kit neeeded
This motor was already damaged, that’s why we installed the kit, it replaced the damaged parts.
So your saying it does work, ? I bought the solenoids and installed them worked for a few hours but then the vehicle started smoking and burning oil,
If I don't want it to come on in my Ram pickup, I just press the minus button, then the plus button to go to 8th gear. As long as you don't hit the plus after you are in 8th the MDS stays off.
This motor was already damaged, that why we installed the kit, to replace the damaged cam and lifter.
I bought a brand new deleted 5.7 hemi for my truck and its been back to the shops 3 times. I paid right at $9,000 for the motor.
That’s odd, I would hope the manufacture would help out if it were new? Something is not right, what’s the problem with it?
I knew a guy that replaced a lifter in his 5.3l vortec. I asked him if he dropped his pan to check for shavings and asked if he put everything back to spec and he said it wasn't necessary. Two weeks later his motor blew up.
In my video I stated that I ended up dropping the pan, to remove the oil pump, and suggested replacing the pump as well. Everything was torqued to spec, and in sequence. I stated that you can look these all up online. This was not a step by step video, this was my overall experience with the kit. And the problem I ran into, was a pushrod was not seated correctly once I went to restart it, it is easy to have happen on this engine, as several others stated the same thing happened to them as well. This motor has been running as a daily driver for several months now, and running great.
What would be the reason for taking these out ? My car is rough idling I have p1411 code for my 5.7 charger and I’m thinking I need to replace them
The reason I replaced them, was because the bad lifter took out the cam lobe, so I had to tear into everything anyway, so it was a good time to replace it all anyway.
Thank-you big help.. I just got my 2014 5.7 hemi 1500 new engine kit. My mechanic abandoned the Job. 2 years know still not running? With your info. I'm going to take on the task. Thank-you much.
Thanks! Good luck with your project!
Did the filter stop all the metal from going through the motor
I believe it did a good job catching it. Its been a few months of daily use, and the oil looks good, and the motor runs smooth.