How to Wire a GFCI Outlet without a Ground Wire in an Older Home.
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Wiring a GFCI Outlet in an older home that does not have a ground wire and still have protection against ground faults that can cause electric shock. This method is approved by the NEC Electrical Code and assures older homes to have GFCI protection in the required areas, including the Kitchen, Bathroom, Garage, and Outdoor areas. GFCI Outlets are an essential device in all homes, and are required for home inspections, and home electrical system upgrades. DIY Electrical Wiring from an Electrician. Complete with easy to understand wiring examples, and an easy to follow process which is explained by a licensed electrical contractor.
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This video was very helpful. My Aunts house is an older home built in 1945. And it seems to not have a ground. I appreciate your time.😎😎
Not when it is done correctly.
Had a fuse panel in my garage that was condemned by the insurance company Georgia Pacific.
Had fuse panel installed inside because of code changes had to move main shut off outside.
Electricians added a panel underneath my electric meter.
It only has three Breakers a 30 amp double pole for my generator a double pole 20 amp for my pool pump a 20 amp single pole for my pool light which or both GFI.
The problem I'm having every time you touch the fuse panel the gfi's trip. I replace the wiring for the pump and the light because it was in cast iron piping and rusted-out.
You can literally touch the metal cabinet and the breakers will trip. Trying to figure out because all the breakers are still inside the garage is that considered my main cabinet or is that the sub-cabinet from this one with the main shut off.
This one has the neutral and the grounds tied together no separate Ground Bar.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Only video out of the many that I watched that fixed my gfci install issue. Thank you.
You're welcome!
Great video for the DIY, it's insane how much handyman work is done out there, wouldn't be a problem if it was done the right and safe way. Some are very dangerous to the tenants.
Well said, and I am glad you enjoyed the video.
Got same old house, installed a gcfi with 2 wires but the little green indicator light don't come on , any idea why it's not on?
Thank you. You are very good at covering salient points related to the GFCI. I just protected my family with your assistance. Bless you!
Thank You - I'm Glad it was helpful for you and your family!
Thank you..
You make Electrical repairs make sense to the novice. God bless you all.🤓👍
Thank you Richard, Glad to help!
I have an older home and your video answered my questions about grounding. I will pick a different location for my GFCI.
Glad I could help!
Wow, I had not seen the bootleg ground, but it's something to look for... thanks!
You bet!
@@AskTheElectrician If I am correct, one of the bootleg ground circuits is just a death waiting to happen. Handyman Dave decides to fix up his dad's old Milwaukie "Sabre Saw", metal body, lovely device.
Dave lovingly takes it apart, decides to update it a bit with a new power cord, but decides to use a grounded one, after all, it's the responsible thing to do he says to himself, he attaches the ground to the metal body, the idea being if the hot should come in contact with the body it immediately shorts to ground tripping the breaker, good idea. In theory.
But then some jagoff goes and installs a bootleg ground, Handyman Dave finishes his repair, takes the tool over to the outlet with the bootleg ground, plugs it in.
Unknown to Handyman Dave, he has now connected the body of that saw to the neutral wire of the circuit, neutral and hot are sitting there waiting to make contact, Dave pulls the trigger, fast forward an hour or two and Dave is researching the idea of double insulation and wonders what it will cost to have an electrician rewire his house correctly...
This about right?
@@BestLittleStudio They are not inherently dangerous. It was the standard way of grounding in many countries. Sure one should not do things that are against the local code. The main problem is interference it can cause because of stray currents that can go through data lines.
The most important safety issue is that some people do it incorrectly and create a reverse bootleg ground.
@@okaro6595
What data lines?
This is by far the best video of explaining something I've ever seen especially when it comes to electrical issues.
You are clear, well spoken your voice stays at the same level throughout. You got to the point and stayed on topic never once bringing up personal life or the person that did things wrong.
Some people would have made a hour long video covering the same subject. Thank you for that.
With that being said you wouldn't sleep a wink in my home. It was built in 1954 and dad bought the house in 65 and I was a year old.
I've lived here all but 15 yrs of my life.
It still has an old 6 circuit w/range fuse panel. I've learned what and what not to do. One example is I know I can't run the microwave and the toaster at the same time or I'll be replacing a fuse.
You're video taught me I can make it just a bit more safe though. I didn't know you could use a GFCI outlet without a ground and so yes over the years I've replaced most of the outlets with 3 prong outlets that are not grounded.
Changing these out for a GFCI outlet will be the least I can do but it's going to be the first thing I start with.
Thank you again
Hi LH, and Thank You for your kind comments!
When updating an older home start with the basics to bring the home up to code especially with AFCI and GFCI protection and smoke detectors, then upgrade the panel and circuit wiring a you are able.
Hope tp see you at my website: ask-the-electrician.com
@@AskTheElectrician You're welcome and yes I'm one step ahead with the smoke detectors and I have two fire extinguishers in the house as well. I really believe in fire extinguishers. I have one in my car, one in my daughter's car, one on my bike and one I'm my shop. Those can mean the difference in a small burn spot somewhere and you're whole livelihood being turned into a pile of ashes.
Thanks. I always wondered if a GFCI would work without a ground
Happy to help
Very good explanation of what was happening and what to do and what not to do clear and concise subcribed. Thanks
Thank You - Glad it helped
Wonderful explanation and practical examples given.
This video in priceless. Thank you.
Thank you very much Matzi!
Great video that answered most of my questions. Currently remodeling a bathroom and the old outlet will now be too near the new sink, so I'm having to move it at least a foot away from the sink. The house is not grounded so I was looking for info about installing a GFCI in the bath to replace a standard outlet. Thanks for the informative video on this subject.
Glad it was helpful!
John, if there are other receptacles on that circuit (another bath, bedroom, garage,etc), then the GFCI receptacle should replace the receptacle that is closest to the breaker panel. This gives GFCI protection to everything downstream on that circuit. This is actually a manufacturer’s recommendation. To meet code you need to label all the faceplates downstream with ‘both’ the “GFCI protected” label and the “No equipment ground” label.
I'm a DIYer and am installing circuits in the basement of my 1955 house. I opened the box of an existing branch to a GFCI which looks to have been installed within the last 10 years or so. There was no ground wire and completely accessible old NM cable, so it must have been a quick fix to replaced an existing outlet. But to my shock (no pun intended) on the GFCI the neutral was jumpered to the ground and to the metal box. And I'm sure this was done by an electrician.
Jumper wires on an outlet from the ground screw to the neutral connection point on the same outlet should be removed.
Some older homes from the 50’s and 60’s have a shared ground wire running to the bathrooms and kitchen, but the ground is combined with the neutrals in the sub-panel (sub-panels of this vintage typically did not have a ground running to the main panel). I’d say in this case it’s OK to use the ground wire when adding a GFCI outlet and the homeowner should consider a sub-panel upgrade or add a bonded ground bar in the sub-panel with a ground running to the main or metal water pipe (main panel of this vintage were typically grounded to the water pipe entering the home).
It is always best to upgrade the wiring system and have the required grounding installed according to current codes.
Thank you! This is just what I needed. Great video.
Glad it was helpful!
Wow who did the prior wiring? Not quite as bad as finding spliced wires covered only by painters tape that has fallen apart, but pretty bad! That bare wire bootleg ground was especially choice.
LOL - Yes - We see all varieties of wiring out there, pretty incredible!
That's what keeps us busy!
This video was excellent. Thank you so much!
Thank you for watching!
Thank you for the tips 👍
Thank you for the great lesson
Glad you liked it!
Great information thank you for helping so many of us learn
Your Welcome!
I've seen a lot of these ground/neutral jumpers....and many corresponding panels do not have both bus bars bonded. Seen several 220 outlets jumped too especially dryers...but the neutral bus bars were bonded in the panel.
Yes - it is unfortunate that there have been a lot of installations of electrical panels and devices that are not correct. One of our goals is to teach others how these things should be done right.
Need to have shown the back of the outlet before install when you explained where you put the wires. Great video
Thanks, and keep in mind that you can see more at the website:
ask-the-electrician.com
See you there!
Hey, in your bathroom you got two pairs of wires. Most likely one of them is a line, another a load. You can easily check which is which and use GFCI to protect a load.
Instead you connected them together. Which means that any short-circuit on the load outlets would go to the breakers, rather than being caught by GFCI itself.
Yes, that is One example of how an outlet circuit may be wired and have GFCI protection for one specific outlet.
Thank you Ask-The-Electrician!~ OUTSTANDING VIDEOS, Learning a bunch!~ I have a few questions if I may... 1)What kind of analog device are you using to trip the GFCI? That's Not a multimeter right? 2)What if there is No sink or anything that is grounded, how then can you test out your GFCI to trip? 3)I'm remodeling an old small house with no ground, each of the outlets only has the hot and neutral wires through the house. Does this mean that each of these outlets are run on there own circuit? 4) The bedroom doesn't need GFCI correct? If so would it be okay to just replace the 2 prong outlets with normal 3 prong outlets, not GFCI's? 5) I have one of those KLEIN RT210 GFCI OUTLET TESTER PLUGS to trip the GFCI, and it's Not tripping any of these GFCI outlets I recently installed, though it does say on the back of it FOR 3 WIRE OUTLET ONLY. It does trip the GFCI's at my house that has ground wires just fine I should add. Thank you so much for all your time and awesome videos!!!!~
Great questions Joseph. The 3-wire GFCI tester you have only works where there is a ground wire as part of the circuit. A ground source must be provided for testing the GFCI outlet, so I typically locate a ground source such as a cold water metal pipe and create a temporary test cable, and then I test using an analog tester, and test from the ground wire to the power side of the outlet and this will trip the GFCI outlet.
Keep in mind that there are Several of these topics covered at ask-the-electrician.com.
See you there!
@@AskTheElectrician HEY, Thank you Very Much. I'm checking out your website now, and i'll watch all your videos and keep learning!~ I watched this video a few times already and keep picking up new things. When you say test cable, do you mean like a long ground wire attached to the metal pipe and ran along to the outlet in question to trip test?
Never would I have thought to jumper a wire from the neutral to the ground. That even sounds like a way to gets someone killed.
Your right Darrius - installing a jumper wire from the ground to the neutral on a receptacle outlet is definitely not the way to do it, and it has hazardous potentials.
@@AskTheElectrician That's known as a bootleg ground.
That is how grounding in many countries have been done earlier. All my grounded outlets are done that way.
@@AskTheElectrician Is this the reason why I sometimes get shocked in the shower?
@@JoshR512 possibly a wire touching the drain pipe
So far, this is the clearest video explanation I have watched, so THANKS! I'm trying to install a GFCI outlet in a bathroom. The outlet shares a box with a dimmer switch. The wiring is romex circa late 1960s or early 1970s. Is there any reason why I should or could not replace the old outlet with a GFCI?
No - a GFCI outlet may be installed no matter how old the wiring is as long as the existing outlet wiring is in working condition and the wires can be identified.
@@AskTheElectrician Thank you for sharing your knowledge! I truly appreciate it.
great video!
Thanks!
Great video !!!
Thanks!
Being that your is tutorial, you should have demonstrated connecting the wires into the back of the receptacle proper attachment, testing security that it doesn’t pop out just so people have a full description of how things are actually done.
Thanks for the tip
Good teaching video. Thank you.
You are welcome!
Great video answered my question about 2prong recept. replaced with a 3 prong receptacle. the ground was connected to the neutral side. Still when testing with a my tester from hot side to ground I still read 118 volts . I was told this is a safe way they use to change 2prong receptacle to 3 probg receptacle
Just be sure that a jumper wire is NOT installed between the ground screw terminal on the outlet and the neutral of the outlet, as this is not allowed.
You could stil use a gfci for non wet environments it will still provide protection
Yes
If there is no ground wire, but it's a metal box, does it matter whether you connect a ground jumper from the GFCI to the box?
Connecting a ground wire from the GFCI Outlet to the box would also ensure the box to be protected by ground fault as well, but the main concern is to provide protection at the outlet.
An ungrounded metal box is dangerous. Whether you connect the wire or not in case of hot wire getting loose it can lead the voltage to the equipment case.
Thank you this was very easy to understand what’s going on inside old homes wiring. I do not have a ground and I think I’m thinking about upgrading the 100 amp panel box to a 200 amp and thought I would have to rewire the whole house to include a ground to all outlets. What is the best way for me to find what I would need to do without getting taken for a ride. 😊
Glad it helped you. Be sure to have smoke detectors and AFCI protection as well as GFCI outlets in the required areas.
I find your videos very educational, thank you. My daughter recently purchase an older home in Sacramento, California with outlets that are not ground, in fact there is no ground. Can I run a ground wire from the panel outside, under the house through the crawl space to every outlet in the house? . Thank you.
Thank you Alvaro, I'm glad you find my videos helpful!
Yes - a ground wire may be installed from the main panel to various outlets of a circuit. Be sure the ground system at the main panel has been installed properly as well.
@@AskTheElectrician i am impressed, not only that you answered my question but you went through and answered every question for this video. Thank you so much.
Thanks, I just did this on an old basement 2-wire outlet. It cleared up what "no equipment ground" means, it just means no protection for sensitive equipment, people are still protected. But as I understandit, BX or metallic cable with no green ground wire does provide grounding through the armored cable itself back to the panel. When you replace a regular 2 prong outlet with a 3 prong, contact with the outlet box does provide a ground, I don't really understand why the same principle does not provide sufficient grounding for a GFCI.
There are several different types of flex conduit and fittings. Some are approved as a means of grounding when installed properly and by using the correct approved fittings and methods as specified by the NEC Code. if in doubt, then install a separate ground wire and use the appropriate boxes, fittings and methods as approved by the NEC Code with has been adopted in your specific area.
Not sure of the format to formally ask a question, but here goes;
Hi. I have a portable AC unit that is tripping the breaker. The breaker has "15" on it so I assume it's a 15 Amp breaker. The AC unit has a specs sticker and states: Current Consumption is 10.8 A. Besides the AC unit, there's a laptop and ceiling fan running. Is it as simple as replacing the breakers with a 20 Amp breaker?
The circuit breaker is sized to the size of the circuit wiring, so it should not be up sized, otherwise you risk creating an overheated condition on the wiring, thereby creating a a fire hazard.
Excellent Information thanks alot 👍
My pleasure
At 8 minutes in where there are two sets of wires coming into the box , could you not use pigtail wires from the common and neutral wires to complete the circuit and protect that one receptacle location ?
Yes - the wiring method you have described will protect that one outlet. Examples of this and other projects are found on ask-the-electrician.com
8:08 you say you are only protecting this one location. I understand that to be true. However by running the load wires to the line terminals, wouldn't they also "trip" if the GFCI tripped? In other words anything down the line would also be shut off?
Wiring the GFCI outlet as you described may cause nuisance trips, and possibly not protect the downstream outlets. It is best to attach the Line and Load wires for best results and ground fault protection.
What you didn’t mentioned is that even with a gfci installed, your gfci will show “open ground” because no ground wire connects to it.
Yes - and that is why the sticker has to be placed on this method of installing a GFCI outlet to indicate that the outlet is not grounded. What you are describing will be covered in my video about Testing Outlets - good observation.
I’m getting a “hot/neutral reversed” error, would this mean another issue down line?
Great video! At 8:36 you put them both to the line side. I'm curious as to why you didn't check to see if one of them was a load side?
The circuit wiring was tested before hand to reveal the power source, which is installed on the Line side as noted.
I circumstances like these; I generally install a GFCI breaker in the panel to protect the entire circuit. I then place the labels on each outlet for no ground and for gfci protected.
Yes - that works as well, the only draw back is having to go to the panel to reset the breaker if there is a fault at any of the outlets.
@Ask-The-Electrician I do it that way because I know there is a good ground at the panel and feel that it may be a little better if the gfci can take full advantage of the the way the device was designed.
That is better as it protects also if the live wire touches an ungrounded metal box.
I have a rental property that failed inspection with no ground so I put gfi's in so I'm hoping this will pass inspection
It should pass inspection because the GFCI Outlets will provide the required ground fault protection in the required areas.
Did it pass? My rental failed inspection twice because of it. Even though I had GCFI outlets installed. If so what kind did you buy any specific brand maybe? I can't think of anything
Did you pass your inspection Thomas?
GFCI installed in my house and did not pass. Now, I have to invest in rewiring house. It will cost me 16,000 dollars.
@@mikejohnson9586 you must've had a very strict inspector. The NEC does permit an older non grounding receptacle with a grounding receptacle, provided it's protected by a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter and you label the GFCI outlet "NO EQUIPMENT GROUND " and any newer grounding type receptacles are labeled "GFCI PROTECTED, NO EQUIPMENT GROUND. " 406.4 (D) (2) (b) & 406.4 (D) (2) (c) of the 2020 NEC
Excellent information 👍👍👍
Many many Thanks, Martin!
Great video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Im learning
Glad to help
Great video I have questions
Go ahead!
If you have an ungrounded outlet and a fault occurs in an appliance, will this both energize the appliance and the outlet itself?
If there is a Ground Fault that is detected with a GFCI outlet then the GFCI will trip off the power to the outlet.
Hello, very nice video. I have an older home built in 1955. Most of the receptacles were two prong with no grounds however some are 3 prong with no ground. I'm not sure why some of the wiring has a ground wire on it and some doesn't. Looks to be older wire similar to what's in this video. There are also outlets in the house that were converted from one gang to two gang with the 3 prong outlets and no ground. There are outlets that were also added to existing circuits via a metal junction box but the box isn't grounded. I figure the easiest way to fix the problem would be to look in the panel and trace the wiring and see which circuits are grounded and which ones aren't. Can i put a GFCI breaker in the panel and will that protect everything in that circuit that isn't grounded? Even if it's a circuit that was tapped with a metal junction box? I think a GFCI breaker would be cheaper in the long run than individual GFCI receptacles. Will a GFCI breaker trip on a circuit that shorts with no ground?
Thanks for the complement - Yes, a GFCI circuit breaker will protect the whole circuit and trip off if a ground fault is detected.
Thank you sir great video!!!!!
Very welcome
Good clear video. If I find the metal box that houses the outlet shows a ground via the BX conduit and I hook it up box to GFI ground screw , is it still necessary to label the plate?
A label is not necessary if there is a ground wire or properly bonded ground path that is present.
great video well explain thanks
Thanks JR, Glad it was helpful!
See more at ask-the-electrician.com
See you there!
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
I have question which just recently I was going to replace a old 2 prong outlet with a GFCI. But I stop cause what I have is 2 black wire (I wasn’t able to check for which is hot) and one Neutral white faded looking wire. No ground wire. My question is how do you work with something like this? Much thanks for your videos. Very educational and understanding.
We typically identify the wiring by testing using either a non-contact voltage tester, or if necessary we use a voltage tester and an external wire that is attached to a known ground source, such s a water facet or water pipe. Once the wiring has been identified then we can make the proper connections.
Very helpful video, thank you!! I installed a two GFCIs on a circuit in my older home. One tests fine with a three prong tester but another tests as "no ground". Could that be expected?
Yes because this method does dot include a ground wire.
That one needs the sticker.
Thanks for the video.
You are welcome!
At 9:55 - how did you test the ground wire to see whether it is an actual ground?
Also, when adding the GFCI outlets, should there only be one per circuit from the main panel?
Thx,
My outlet had a yellow and white cable bonded, I split them, one is neutral and the other gave no power etc, but it works with when neutral is on ground screw and the one with no power on the silver screw, and of course the black cable on gold, but now my roommates room don't work
For best results, the wiring should be reconnected as it was originally to ensure all of the areas receive power as they should. It would be best to have an electrician test the wiring for proper connections.
@@AskTheElectrician that's exactly what I did, everything works as it should, my outlet tester does display "open ground" I went a ahead and put a sticker label on it that came on the GFCI box etc. Thanks for the reply!
If there is no ground wire going from the circuit breaker box should all outlets have GFCI outlets in the case? The outlets have three prong but no ground is present when tested. This video is very informative!
If outlets are not grounded from a source then two prong outlets should be installed, and GFCI outlets installed in required areas.
@@AskTheElectrician thanks for the reply! I just found out that the electrician installed GFCI outlets at the beginning of each circuit and from what I’m seeing that’s suitable. I do plan to have the house rewired later on so I think this is suitable for now.
@@gstrou86 That is just why they should be marked. If they have properly been marked "No equipment ground" and "GFCI protected".
2011 code did away with the no ground label. And if I find sketchy wire I use heat shrink tubing
Yes - and the heat shrink tubing may be used when the splice is properly made, but it is not a common method typically used in residential work.
Enjoyed the video., thanks. If a receptacle has no visible ground wire would it be acceptable to place the voltage tester probe in the hot side and then touch the other probe to the receptacle box to see if that is grounded (seeing current) and then if it is just install a ground wire from the receptacle to the box itself? Thx
Yes, absolutely - that will definitely work.
Can you connect with pig tail from neutral to ground. to ground your outlet
No - that is not safe.
5:02 so will it read as grounded then even if it's not wired all the way to the main power point? And if so is this why you need to add a No equipment ground sticker ?
When a GFCI outlet is wired without a ground wire it will not test as having a ground path. However the GFCI will detect if there is an instance to ground that exceeds a normal condition and will trip off thereby providing ground fault protection. This is why the sticker is required, stating that there is No Equipment Ground.
Your so Awesome!! TY for your time your answer was very helpful bless you and have a fabulous day 🙏✌
This video is wonderful. Thank you. Question: I have an older 50s home, plaster/lath, with small electrical boxes. I dont think the normal gfci will fit in them. Is it possible to find smaller gfci outlets that might fit. My wires are cloth covered like your video. I dont want to kostlevthem too much. They are delicate and unravel easily. Can i find and use a small AFC outlet? Would that work as a replacement for ungrounded 2 prong outlets?
Thank you for watching. Take care when installing a GFCI outlet in a smaller outlet box.
We have a 100+ year old house and the electrical is a pain. In our breaker panel the Neutral and Ground buss is just one terminal strip, they are not separate. I can not get a GFI breaker or outlet to work on it. Any suggestions.
At the main electrical service panel the neutrals and grounds are bonded at the same terminal strip. For the GFI breaker make sure to test it without a load or the circuit wire connected. This may help you see if there is a problem in the wiring of the circuit.
If te metal box is not grounded an especially considering the condition of the wires, if the live wire touched the box the voltage will be through the ground wire to the equipment case. The GFCI will not protect against that if it is in in the outlet. If it was upstream it would protect.
Great point, and in this case the overload protection would react and trip the circuit off. However if the GFCI outlet should also react if it is properly secured and attached to the metal box.
@@AskTheElectrician The overload protection does not work without a ground wire. A GFCI cannot detect faults that happen before it.
Excellent video! May I ask if rather than a ground fault outlet in the branch circuit, is it ok to assume someone could install a GFI(?) Breaker and that would cover the entire circuit? It's a bit more $$ but it seems quick and easy.
Your thoughts?
Yes, absolutely - a GFCI Circuit Breaker is definitely an option to protect the entire circuit.
@@AskTheElectrician what about just putting a gfci plug upstream on the branch
Just out of curiosity, why do you test on things that aren’t necessarily connected to the outlet at all? I’m gonna be doing some home renovation myself and I’m trying to acquire as much knowledge as I possibly can.
Testing a GFCI outlet to a grounded source, such as a water facet or drain, is one way to see if the GFCI device is working and will cause the ground fault device to trip off.
What if all outlets in the home are 2 prong with no ground? Is there a way to fix this without having to rewire?
Yes - If a ground wire is needed for a grounded appliance cord then a ground wire may be installed to a copper or galvanized water pipe that is in the same location, using an approved ground clamp. Otherwise continue to use the two prong outlets. Install GFCI Outlets where they are required even if there is no ground wire available - they still work and are code compliant.
I swapped out an old gfci with a new one. Had no ground wire, so when I plugged in my 3 prong tester, it read "Open Ground". So according to your video, its safe to use? I was baffled why I wasn't getting "Correct" reading. Just place the sticker on and I'm good?
When a ground wire is not present a plug in circuit analyzer will show an open ground. However when a GFCI outlet is installed it will provide Ground Fault protection regardless.
Great video, Thanks for making it.
But if there are multiple outlets on one breaker only the one closest to thje panel should get the GFCI outlet?
Yes - Ground Fault protection is provided for all the outlets and other devices on the same circuit when a GFCI Outlet is installed in the first position on the circuit, and wired correctly with the proper Line and Load connections. The same is true for installing a GFCI circuit breaker, all of the circuit is protected for ground fault. Also note that only one type of GFCI protection is necessary for each circuit.
I have 2 wires. A black and white. I know black goes to brass but do I connect each line on each side at the top or one on top of right side and one on bottom of left side (diagonal)?
When there is only one set of wires, the wiring is attached to the Line side of the GFCI outlet.
How does one verify which wire is hot and which one is neutral (using a multimeter)? Also...if you don't want to GFCI protect any outlets downline, you wire the GFCI with line and load wires into the line terminals in the back of the GFCI outlet only?
Wiring may be verified using a voltage tester with one lead attached to a grounded source, such as a grounded outlet box or switch box, or a continuous metal water pipe, then testing the wiring to see if one has voltage. Yes - if GFCI protection is not needed for downstream outlets, then the wiring you have described should be connected to the Line side of the GFCI.
Thank you!@@AskTheElectrician
I just bpught a 1948 house. It has cables with two conductors, each cloth wrapped, but both black. All the outlets are 2-prong (no ground) and there are no ground wires in the boxes. There are GFCIs in the kitchen and bathroom, but my outlet tester says "no ground" (of course) and "Hot/Neutral reversed". The outlet tester won't go into the 2-prong outlets because there's no hole for the ground prong. How can I test the wiring to see which conductor is hot and which is neutral? I trying to figure out if the hot & neutral is swapped at the main panel or just at the GFCIs? I have a digital voltmeter.
In a case like this I use my non-contact volt tester, which is pretty accurate, however other wires in close proximity can interfere and cause a false reading. The most accurate way is to create a grounded test wire which is attached to a known metal water pipe, copper being the best, and then use this test wire. This will only work if the whole house has metal plumbing and if the main water service is metal as well, which is most likely rigid steel or galvanized water pipe.
I just had an electrician come out and quote me on getting an extra circuit installed with GFCI outlets for $1200. Our house is pretty old. Built in the 1950s. He also said our electrical panel needed to be replaced and would cost around 10k to replace with 200amp. This seems way over priced imo. When I search online it says the average cost is around $1800-$3000. What do you think something like that should cost? Appreciate any help thanks.
I agree that the cost for the panel upgrade itself is a high. The cost to do any project will depend on your location, the age of the home and the access to perform all of the work, which is typically based upon time and materials. Be sure to get at least three estimates in writing from licensed electricians who have excellent referrals, and make sure all of the work is done with a permit and has been inspected per the requirements of the building authority in your location or jurisdiction.
I'm a little confused. I installed a GFCI in the bathroom of an older house (1967). The box is metallic and has a ground wire attached to the box. When I went to test the GFCI (before putting it back into the metallic box, it would not reset. Then I installed it into the metallic box and it would reset and trip as expected. This gave me the impression that a GFCI has to be grounded and powered up to have it work properly. I still don't understand why the GFCI that you installed without a ground would work. Please explain.
Yes - the GFCI Outlet does need the circuit power to be on in order for the protection to work. The ground fault protection is powered by the circuit.
How depth should I bury my UF wire indoor from wall to kitchen island? Thank you
UF Type cable is intended to be used for Underground Feeder applications. When is it installed underground it is typically buried 18inches deep.
Can you use a GFCI switch/outlet combo with this wiring?
a Combo Switch Outlet will protect the same way, however it will only protect the single outlet.
Great video, I've a similar situation but I didnt know until im selling the house.
I've bought a tester and it seems like some of my outlets showing no ground wire, in the same room I have mix of two one showing correct wiring and one showing no ground wire. Now in my case do I chnage them all to 2 pronged including the ones that are showing it's correct or only change the ones that are showing no ground?
If a ground wire is not part of the circuit wiring, or a ground wire is not attached to the outlet box, then a non-grounded two prong outlet should be installed.
Great video. I’ve been replacing all of my 2 prong outlets to grounded outlets. The previous owner did not install any of the ground wires or change out the two prong.
Most of my newly replaced outlets now show as grounded. However, some of the outlets are showing as no ground even with the ground wire attached.
Is this because the ground wire is not actually grounded?
It could be - and the only way to know for sure would be to check to see if the ground wires are spliced together at each outlet box, and if the ground wire is properly connected at the panel.
What if your using a 220 wire and you don't have a neutral wire
A 220Volt circuit may be protected against ground faults by installing a GFCI Circuit Breaker properly sized for the circuit wiring.
If it's in a metal box can I ground it to the box
If the metal box is grounded with an approved ground source then yes, you could attach a ground wire to the grounded metal box.
does the hot black wire go into the load or line of the GFCI?
The Line side.
At 8:24, you’ve placed both sets of wires in the “Line” side of the receptacle. Is there any advantage to doing this as opposed to switching on the breaker and finding the hot wire, then putting that into the “line” holes, then putting the other wires in the “load” holes? Will it cause any issues to place both sets of wires in the “Line” holes?
Great Question Jacob! When wiring only to the Line side the GFCI protection will work for the GFCI outlet location only, However if there are additional devices that need to be GFCI protected then the circuit wiring for these devices are attached to the Load terminals, And in this case - Yes, the Line and Load wires will need to be identified, especially the incoming circuit power wires which will be attached to the Line terminals, the remaining wires leading to the other devices requiring GFCI protection are attached to the Load terminals. Also, keep in mind that creating pigtail splices may be used as well depending on the number of wires that are used, and how much space there is inside the outlet box.
@@AskTheElectrician would be good to include that information in the video
I pulled out an old electric outlet, to replace it with a GFCI.
I accidentally touched some part of the old outlet while removing it on the metal box, and saw a small spark. (I thought the fuse was out, but maybe I had the wrong fuse out).
Now, I am reading 14 volts from hot to neutral, and from hot to the metal box(ground). I've pulled every fuse in the panel, and still see 14 volts!
Note, the outlet was working fine before my accident (although the hot/neutral were reversed).
What did I do break when that old receptacle sparked? Did I burn/short a wire, or junction? How do I find the problem. I cannot use continuity tests since I have 14 volts present. Help!
At the main panel the main fuses should be checked to see if one has blown, if so it should be replaced with the same type fuse.
Thank you brother
Your Welcome!
My old house had to no ground wire anywhere. We had a fuse circuit.
Many of the older homes with fuse panels and original wiring do not have a ground wire with the electrical circuit wiring.
Mine also has a fuse box rather than breakers. How do we determine which outlet is the first from the box that needs gfci from the load outlets that will be gfci protected from the line?
very educational
Thank You
@AskTheElectrician - I read that you can connect/add a ground wire from the receptical to a copper drain pipe, kinda like what you simulated in your video. Is that ok to do or dangerous and not advisable and against code?
Great Question! Attaching a ground wire using an approved ground strap to a continuous metallic cold water pipe that originates from a metallic cold water source, such as the water company, is one method of grounding a receptacle outlet in an older home.
@AskTheElectrician thank you for your kind reply and confirming. Truly appreciated! 🙏🫶
Your Very Welcome - Have a Great Day!
What does the multimeter set to when checking the GFCI for grouding
A plug in circuit analyzer is very useful for testing for ground, and other circuit conditions.
What is the difference between ground fault and ground path?
A Ground Fault is an event that occurs, such as a person getting an electric shock. A Ground Path is a physical device or environmental element that provides a low resistance connection to the earth ground.
In the video, at 8:29, did you attach BOTH white wires to the same screw of the receptacle, and BOTH black wires to the same screw? I'm in no way an expert on this, I just watched a video that said that if two wires were to go the one screw, they need to be pigtailed into a single wire THEN attached to the receptacle. Please clarify, as I'm confused ....again.
It is really a matter of preference, either way will work. With a GFCI outlet, the terminals are designed where there is a connection for both wires at the side terminal, which is not the case with a standard receptacle outlet. If this were a standard outlet I would have pigtailed the wires, but with a GFCI it is fine to wire it this way. Be sure the advise you see from others is backed up with years of experience, and most of all credentials, such as a Licensed Electrical Contractor. There are a of opinions these days based upon misinterpreted information and very little or no experience or credentials.
If I have no ground and add a gfci outlet and I plug a power strip with surge protector will the surge protector work even if it doesn’t have a ground ? The outlet area I want to have a smart power strip to control tv and a electric fireplace with uses a 3 prong 120v
Probably not, because the surge protector should require a ground wire connection for full protection.
you connected to the line side of GFCI #2 from the load side of GFCI #1 ??
For wiring GFCI Outlets with various configurations you may consider the following: ask-the-electrician.com/GFCI-Receptacles.html
This will help you - see you there!
With that age of insullation, you should be seeing the old Romex..?? Metal insulating wire covering the old linen insulation. Cannot you ground the new wiring enclosing the two cloth covered wires
The original wiring was cloth insulation and did not include a ground wire. An additional ground wire may be installed a per NEC specifications.
"Attach the two wires to the line side of the GFCI",..I wasn't sure what this meant and didn't see a visual of it. The old two prong (ungrounded) receptacle had the white wire on the left side and the black on the right(as I face it) side. Are you saying that both white and black wire should be attached on the right side of the new GFCI receptacle? I was looking for a visual to confirmed this but couldn't find it.
Also, although you mentioned checking the polarity three times, I wasn't sure how you did this. Could you explain...
Thanks for the video,
Dan
Thanks for your Comments.
Please Visit ask-the-electrician.com for more detailed information.
Hmm. Generally people use GFCI outlets near kitchen/bathroom areas, because they are wet/damp locations.
Right on the new GFCI outlet in your video at 10:08 there is a sticker reading "Do Not Install In Wet Or Damp Locations... use only approved weather resistant devices..."
A bit confusing, though I do realize they make GFCI outlets SPECIFICALLY for outdoor use (sometimes gray in color). Can you comment on the warning sticker for clarity?
Yes - an indoor location is typically not a Wet location, Weather resistant locations are typically exterior applications. If the interior location were considered to be a Wet location then a special cover would be required as well. All of this being Application Specific.
@@AskTheElectrician thank you. Another request... 24 years ago we installed GFCI outlets in our master bath when the home was new. Two over the dual sinks, and one on a dedicated circuit for a whirlpool tub.
After many years, I noticed one by a sink & the one for the whirpool tub no longer trip when using the TEST button. Why would they fail? They are still usable, but I figured they no longer function as intended.
My house was built in 1939, and has those cloth wrapped wires. GFCI receptacles are a lot larger then the original receptacle. Any tricks on getting a GFCI into those old style smaller boxes
Yes - the original boxes are very small so if the space is too small for the wires and the GFCI Outlet then a surface type electrical box, such as a Wiremold product may be installed by mounting an Extension box on the surface face of the existing box, and the extension box will provide more space for installing the GFCI Outlet. The only other option would be to carefully extract the existing box and replace it with a deeper single gang box, and this is possible, but it is very tricky and one has to be very careful. Also keep in mind that some of the GFCI Outlets are slightly smaller than before, or when comparing to another brand that you are considering which may be larger.
@@AskTheElectrician I will add this: some of these older homes don't have drywall because it was built before drywall was created. These older homes have plaster instead. I live in a home built in 1955. The original owner built the house himself, using plaster to finish the wall. My folks bought the home in 1961, before my older brother was born, and my sister was a baby. When I was in high school back in 1980, I had taken a class in Electronics and learned about house wiring and NEC Codes. My parents had me replace a double switch box that got rusted and damaged from a roof leak over our kitchen. That double gang box was next to the outside exit from the kitchen, and contained the wires to an outdoor backyard porch light and 1 of the light fixtures in the kitchen. I found it can be messy trying to replace a box, but worth the effort to do it yourself. I even found out that the old double gang box happened to be grounded from behind with a separate 12 gauge bare wire nailed to the box bracket and stud. I managed to carefully remove the box after breaking up the plaster carefully around the box, and route the ground wire into the new double gang box. The new double gang box was an expandable box which I nailed in place to the stud. I used new Romex clamps on the switch wires and routed the ground wire inside the box, grounding the box properly with a grounding machine bolt. At that time, new light switches did not have grounding screws, so I rigged a self grounder to ground the light switches to the box when screwed in.
By the way, the wall with the double gang switch box has the kitchen sink on it. Right near the switch on the next stud, I have an old grounded outlet inside a small box as well. That box was also damaged by the roof leak above the kitchen years ago. When we did a plaster repair to the wall decades ago, I saw the ground wire attached to the box bracket nailed to the stud as well. I currently have a GFCI and box ready to replace the old rusty box and the old grounded outlet. The challenge will be repairing the plaster around the box, once the new box and GFCI are in place. My community doesn't require me to put in AFCI/GFCI combinations in my kitchen; just the GFCI for now. I'm not about to install any "childproof" outlets either, even if NEC codes say they're required now, as I don't have children living in my house.
There is 1 thing I'm curious about: do you know if NEC code back in 1955 required that light fixtures exposed to the outdoors such as porch lights were required by code to be grounded? I have 2 outdoor porch lights, one on a wall with plumbing on it, and grounded per fixtures on walls with water pipes and the other on a wall with no water pipes and sinks. I have no way of testing to find out if the front porch light is grounded or not. I do know my back yard porch light is grounded because an electrician tapped the fixture box to install an outdoor outlet to power a water softener back in 1964. The walls the front porch light is on have no exposed plumbing fixtures.
Great video, can I install a GFCI outlet in an split circuit? When trying to replace the outlet in the kitchen, I found that it is a split circuit, so it has one black, one red, one neutral and ground.
On the same circuit or separate circuits? Is one connected to a switch?
@@ccyaltron the same circuit, there is not switch, it's basically two hot cables coming to the same outlet. The current outlet is split because they broke the metal bridge that connects the two gold connectors.
You can't split the GFCI outlet. You have to use only one of the circuits. Now if you did not specify if you have ground wires. If you do, you can of course add additional socket that uses the other circuit. Without ground wires that is not allowed.