How NOT to Wire Light Switches in 2024 (New Rules)
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- Come see the correct way to wire single pole, 3-way and 4-way light switches. Two methods for each switch type.
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Other Video Links here>> California 3-Way - ua-cam.com/video/AeXFe5ghmKQ/v-deo.html Chicago 3-Way - ua-cam.com/video/Ky48x6LxuYA/v-deo.html
The reason you only need ONE box with the neutral is bcuz dimmer switches at the moment can't communicate with one another- if my case is ever heard I will rectify that... hence you can ONLY HAVE ONE DIMMER on a 3-way switching system. Eventually you will simply require a NEUTRAL at all switch locations... we aren't there yet!
I got an eerie feeling during the description of the 3-way and 4-way circuits. Then I realized my father had described this to me in almost exactly the same way in nearly the exact same words when I was a kid... 60 years ago. Great explanation, great channel.
I started as an electrical helper when I was a teen, learned 3-ways & 4-ways from the guy I worked for which was in his 60's then. Been state licensed since 1993, electrical contractor for many years and over 20 years as an engineer. Still show 3-ways & 4-ways wired this way.
@@chrism2042 I started out in pinballs and juke boxes.
Thank you very much John. This is probably the easiest to follow explanation of 3-way switch wiring I have seen on UA-cam.
Thank you.. Glad it was helpful..
I Agee. Very good explanation
DITTOOOOOO
Finally, a well done explanation. Thank you very much.!
You are very welcome.. @@yvesduranceau123
Probably the most thorough explanation on this topic. Well done!
This is exactly what UA-cam is great for. Thank you for the great video.
Thank you!
That is the best description of iow to 3 and 4 ways. I've done them before but always takes me longer to watch the videos 4 times than actuslly wire it in.
Yours was clear and concise
Thank you sir.. I do my best.
Yeah, I finally understand how to wire a three-way after watching this!
I like to print-out the best representation of the way I wired a 3- or 4-way loop and tuck copies in each switchbox or by the cellar lamp, where The Next Guy is sure to find it.
"always takes me longer to watch the videos 4 times than actually wire it in." True that. I learn better from well-drawn drawings. Although that could mean flipping every wiring book in the library, cuz some are/were just awful. Now books are going out of style. BM's video is pretty good, and I thank him for that. But if you go to a yard sale for deals on workpants or moosetraps, see if they have 50-cent wiring books.
I have installed many complicated four-way circuits and three-way circuits in properties, I always draw it out, most of these have included conduit and Romex wiring, so if you have a complicated switch locations just draw it all out and start connecting the dots then figure out how many wires you need between each point and how you’re going to get them there, for example you have a four-way circuit that might have four switches, one by the back sliding door, one out on the patio somewhere in a wall, one upstairs in the bedroom and another by the gate coming into the backyard this is a complex circuit Only in the fact that you will have to figure out how to get all the wire from where it needs to go and then to all the different lighting just draw it out start figuring out your runs and it’s very simple at that point
The hardest part is FINDING a 4-way switch! Most of the hardwares stores here don't have them...except for that ONE odd store that's the furthest away.
@@TonyP9279 Well yeah that would suck, if you don’t have an electrical supply house or a big box store, I guess the only answer there is to keep a few on hand
@@TonyP9279 Well you could use two 3-ways in a double box to get 4-way functionality . Link them with their commons together .
@@TonyP9279 Or I suppose you could try to tell them that odd numbers of switch locations have been outlawed . So you need to install 4 locations ... thereby you can use only 3 way switches . With the 2 middle of the line ones , being only connected with a single conductor on their commons . Hehe lol .
But then of course can just wire nut the two travelers till the 4-way shows up in the mail .
Edit: Scratch that about four 3-way switches being able to work . Was before enough morning coffee and thought I was being clever . Ya obviously the 2 switch combo won't let power through for the last leg switch position to function for turning the light on ... Duh :\
Thanks for the explanation!
When I was a teenager, I figured out the three-way wiring schematic for the SPDT switches. Now, decades later, I couldn't figure it out in several tries. The diagrams are a huge help.
What I have done to retain memory of how Three and Four way wiring systems work is to make a working model of one on a panel of plywood. The model even has a breaker box with breakers on it. The breaker box simply plugs into an outlet for power. This gives me a micro model to view when my memory on how to wire things up starts to fade. The model actually works and turns on a light bulb from two different switches. To make the models I go to Menards and buy and use the actual wire, gang boxes, outlets, bulb receptacle, breaker box with breakers that one would use in a house. Each model costs me about $45 to make. The breaker box alone is about a $20 cost. I just use a small two breaker box. Not a full sized one. I bolt the model to a wall, plug the models breaker box into an outlet and actually use it at times for lighting. I also make a very detailed color drawing on graph paper of the model's wiring system that is mounted on the wall next to the model. Is great to have when teaching my grandkids about electrical wiring concepts.
I'm not an electrician but a retired EE who designed RADAR transmitters, it seems to me that running a neutral to every box during construction is a small cost with huge benefits in the future. We always designed "spares" into every wire harness and control panel.
I was an EE as well before I retired. Spares are a must for industrial applications. I think it's a best practice to feed the switch first. Not only does that leave a neutral should you ever need one but also allows you to add a receptacle at the switch or even right below it if needed with minimal effort.
I really enjoy this channel. Very easy to understand, no swearing, code updates, just great overall!!
I did want to mention that I just wired a 4-way switch and it had 2 black screws and 2 gold screws.
Thanks for the video!
Going to the switch first, then the light, seems the most logical method. It keeps the wire colors consistent so the homeowner can easily tell what's what if they ever change out switches or lights.
That's relatively unimportant. The important part is that you lose neutral at the light switch, making it a HUGE pain in the ass, and IMO, has always been a hard NO. but, 90% of electricians past and present suck and I wouldn't trust them to ever do any of my electrical work.
I've never understood the logic of wiring the power to the fixture, then running a cable to the switch. Much more logical to do as you say.
@@r7boatguySaves money, time, and wire. That being said I wouldn’t do it in my own house. All my switches were wired that way when I got the place, most of them been replaced now. I did just help a friend completely rewire his house and we did the switches with no neutral. He was more concerned with money and wire.
No I always feed the hot and neutral at the light box it's much easier in Florida since we have no basements. All the wires come down from the attic. You would use more wire feeding the hot and neutral at the switch location. You would have double wire going back to the light. 73 feeding wires down a wall are always a chore. 73
@espressomatic so what you are saying is you are the god of electricity. What a rube.
I had my house built in 2004 and had a special meeting with my electrical contractor to have switchbox feeds at every switch as bsck then I was already planning smart switches for my new house... it was interesting as that contractor said it was their standard way of doing things... yet another contractor also building homes in my area didnt use that method.. so when my nextdoor neighbor asked me to install smart switches i figured it would be easy yet his was wired the old way.. and of course all the existing wires were stapled and some switches are on outside walls full of insulation.. now if you go over the bridge about a mile away to a different municpality they had adopted the neutral in the switchbox method back since 2000 as apparently one of the top dogs in the city was a home automation enthusiast and was building a brand new house only to find no neutrals in his switch boxes as he torued the partially complete home.. so he had his wiring redone and proposed the new code which was easily adopted.. interesting how things progress through government
New to your channel, and you enticed me with options 1 and 2 that are not compliant but you didn't explain. Leading me to look them both up. They are marvelous rube goldberg class craziness! Best when used with knob and tubes, I bet, for that extra zing.
Seriously, thanks for a great video.
I'll make another video showing the Chicago and California methods. I didn't want to confuse anyone.
Excellent explanation of both the proper way to wire a single pole and three-way switch, but also the changes resulting from the code changes!
Thank you..
I've always done dead end 3 ways by sending the line to switch 2 and using the common on switch 1 for the switch leg.
Nice explanation. Never heard of a Chicago 3way or a California 3way. would loved to have heard what they were. Checked and found another UA-cam video that described them.
The Chicago includes a Tommy gun and the California an emissions test, right?😮
Thanks for the video! That was very helpful. I always get confused about 3 ways for some reason. But that made a lot of sense. Thank You!!
Thank you.. Glad to help.
You've made this easier for me to understand for sure. I could not diagram it out without watching this video multiple times. But for a first time viewing it was very very clear.
Thanks. Happy to help.
Thanks for reassuring the correct way to wire a single pole, 3-way, and 4-way switch
Appreciate the video, especially learning there are new wiring codes. 👨🏿🔧
I always include a neutral in a switch box. There are some switch devices today that require one and I've seen people use the ground as the neutral leg in these situations causing a dangerous situation down the line for whoever works on that circuit in the future.
I once encountered a BATHROOM (house built in 19:90 in California) that had two switches (one for the lights and one for the exhaust fan), went to replace the light/fan unit, discovered they only ran a single 14 gauge two wire romex to that device and used the black for the light power, the white for the fan power, and the unshielded ground for common for both with NO grounding - talk about confusing and a code violation.
@@ragtowneLet's hope they didn't do the same in the main panel!
[gee this 2/0 white wire is expensive, let's just use this 6ga ground wire here!]
It will also raise havoc if someone tries to upgrade to GFCI; trying to figure out why the breaker won't stay in, or where the fault is...
@@ragtowne I've seen a substantially more dangerous hack job while helping my stepfather rewire his 1973 rambler. Aluminum wiring throughout, 70 amp Zinsco panel in a bedroom closet, as can be expected in a home built during that period. The thing that tipped us off was seeing 2 wire 12 gauge landscape lighting wire used to power the 4500 watt 40 gallon electric water heater, dad turned off the main so I could cut the wire so it could be removed and replaced with a proper 10-2 NM and a 2 pole 30 amp toggle switch since the unit wasn't within sight of the panel. I got a loud bang and vaporized about a half inch hole in my side cutters, turns out a previous owner had tapped that landscape light wire on the line side of the main, so that wire which ran in the crawlspace for almost the length of the house had no overload or short circuit protection, other than the primary fuse on the pole.
The 3 way switches in the hallway were wired with feed at the light, and 12/2 Aluminum NM was dropped from the light box one to each 3 way switch, metal boxes. They were using the black as the common, and the white and ground as the travellers, with the bare "ground" traveller resting against the metal switch boxes .
Since the old galvanized iron water lines were to be replaced with pex pipe anyways, we stripped the house down to the studs and started over from scratch. That was would have been in 2005 and being 16 at the time, found it very educational and rewarding. Sadly that feeling of satisfaction came to a screeching halt when we lost the house to foreclosure in late 2007 because Dad had taken out an adjustable rate mortgage when he brought the place in early 2005 and was unable to afford the mortgage once the introductory APR ended.
@@Sparky-ww5re Moved into our 1945 house with mostly BN wire throughout. Had a problem with the lights dead in the Master Bedroom the first night (we viewed the house twice, in the daytime AND the inspector we paid for never checked the lights and plugs!?!). Took a look in the attic and found the BN cable powering the MB leg had cracked at a bend and bare wires broken through the rubber insulation had parted. Decided rewiring was required. Have gone through about 80 percent of the house and replace all with NM and UF so far, to 2017 code (bought the house in 2015). Added back all the grounds, etc. Still need to replace the switch CB's with AFCI's but that's a big ticket item for a retiree, and with new, copper throughout, not that worried.
To your topic, was working on a BN three wire run, to break out light power onto new NM wire, killed the circuit breaker to that light, went to cut the cable and POP, modified my cutters to have the same stripper notch you describe. :-) Found out that the Red wire was being used, not as a three way, but as a piggy back, power wire, to another part of the house on a different (30 amp) breaker. They were using the white neutral for both circuits. One more room left to finish rewiring, the Media (old living room) room, and then we'll be done.
It's a shame he had lost the house, People that pushed ARM's should have been jailed or worse. Take Care!!!
We used to wire two 3-ways another way. Sort of like the dead end style but the light is in the middle of the traveler wires (like where a 4-way switch would be). White wire in traveler from the feed 3-way is the neutral for the light, white wire from the dead end 3-way is re-identified hot wire for the light. We did some tract homes back in the day where this was convienient because there was a two story plan that had a wall light for the staircase, and it was right in the path or the traveler wire going between the switches. Of course this would only work if there was only one light fixture (although if there were more than one light you could just take a two wire from the first light to the rest). Then there is where you run the hot wire and the switch leg to a 4-way in the middle, then the 2 3-ways can both be dead ends.
Learn something new every day. In the five houses I've lived in (including my folks' house built in 1957) I never saw a two wire loop. Ever. The fourth house was built in 1973 and at that time the area was in the county miles from the city it was a suburb of. Whoever wired it learned on 12v negative ground systems bc the neutral in the entire home was the black wire. Plus they consistently cut off the ground wire. And the icing on the cake? Aluminum wiring. I did research on aluminum wiring. The history of aluminum wiring and its shortcomings are interesting.
Excellent video. My jurisdiction is 10 years behind the current code and the inspector is more concerned with the lenght of ground wires than the absence of a neutral. People who pull homeowner permits don't realize problems they will encounter if they want to take advantage of new technology and this video is exceptional.
Thanks so much.
This old retired electrician is still old school. Don't need smart switches.
@@johnirwin1837 I don't need them now. But I'm 73 years old and want the house I'm remodeling to be my forever home. Smart switch technology will allow me to operate all of the electronics from anywhere. I'm also putting in curbless showers, wider doors, hardwood floors, lever door handles, and pull down kitchen shelves. Plus, the 2023 code requires that the wiring meet the current code if the walls are open and exposed which they are.
@@johnirwin1837 Some smart switches are nice for scheduling lighting on-off times (and brightness), particularly for exterior lights.
@@rickgilbrt True, but I am still old school and old so I won't be using them in my next little wiring project. In 10 to 15 years if the next guy wants them they can install them on their dime.
Thanks for the new code information and diagrams.
My pleasure.
There was a dead end 3 way on my stairs. I was planning on putting a wifi switch at the bottom of the stairs. When I opened the box there was no neutral. So the wifi switch was put upstairs.
I always wondered if that was code compliant. Good to see that it is.
Good video. I always identify wire going to light with colored tape, indicating load.
they dont even have electricity in Maine yet. Ignore this.
Thank you for sharing.
My pleasure.
My dining room light is wired with the dead end 3-way wiring. Which annoys me because I wanted to put a new switch that requires a neutral at the dead end location but there is no neutral there so I couldn't. I got a different dimmer switch that didn't require a neutral in the end.
Great job John! Your teaching is excellent.
Thank you Sir.. Much appreciated.
Don't know if it's code compliant or not but electrically that dead-end switch circuit can be extended. Just replace SW2 with a 4-way and move the 3-way over to the new SW3 location and run your wire from SW2 to the SW3 location.
Something that always used to confuse me because I cane from an electronics background and knew what was actually inside the 3-way and 4-way switches. 3-way is a SPDT and the 4-way is a DPDT switch wired as a reverser internally.
Yup you can do that but you're still just extending the switched power which will have to get back to switch one to actually turn on your light.
Does the 4-way still have a neutral this way?
And another interesting note is in Europe a 3-way switch is called a 2-way switch which if you think about it makes much more sense.
@@stargazer7644if true, Europe is basing the name off of the number of locations, while here in the States we base it off of the number of wires required for the switch to function. A 3-way switch will always and only function with 3 wires. 4-ways will always and only function with 4 wires.
If you wanted you can have 20 switches to work a single light. All it would take are 2 3-ways and 18 4-ways.
@@TheForgottenMan270 So why is the word "way" included? I rather think Europeans call them 2 way switches because the switch selects one of two ways current can go out of the switch. American 4 way switches are called intermediate switches in Europe, not 3 way switches.
I'm not real keen on the NEC, which was established for electrical safety, starting to require things like this. In most cases this will never be used. I really think most people are happy to just turn the light on and off with the wall switch. In the last few years the NEC has taken the code to an extreme, requiring Ground fault protection on equipment that does not substantially need it.....Stoves, ovens, HVAC units, dishwashers and the like. These units are solidly grounded which prevents shock hazard (externally) and would/should be disconnected for service. This whole thing with the NEC smells of influence from manufactures of equipment.
The younger generations love controlling things with their home assistant or with their phones. The issue was that its difficult to get a neutral to the box later and its very easy and inexpensive to do it during the original installation. From a safety standpoint people were connecting the neutral to the ground wire. It would work but create a hazard by having current flow on the ground.
NFPA owns NEC. I was a career firefighter for 23 years. During that time I purchased 4 fire apparatus, fire hose and other items for our department. During that time I learned how NFPA has a seat at the table for manufacturers. They are continually trying to create mandatory short term lives for equipment and the list goes on and on. Luckily in the fire service the AHJ is given the final word, with the NEC many jurisdictions blindly adopt it and the enforcement parties are often thise who have spent Weeks and Weeks (haha) training (as opposed to retired Journeyman electricians)
@@spudth Re: short-term lives. Now that I'm old enough to have bought electronic equipment and have it later fail due to age, I agree that code shouldn't be requiring any devices with an expected lifespan less than 60 years. IMO that should mean no devices that contain electrolytic capacitors or flash/EPROM memory.
I never used a little bit of black tape taped all white with black tape or permanent black marker.
That's going to be whatever the local AHJ is looking for because the code isn't specific.@@barrythomas529
This was a GREAT explanation of 3-way and 4-way switch connection options! I've watched other videos, but you narration and whiteboard illustrations were crisp, clear, and easy to follow! Will be coming back to this video when it's time to put in LED dimmers to replace our multiple position kitchen lighting. I looked at the current wiring before and could not figure out what was going on. I think with printouts of your diagrams I'll finally be able to decipher what's going on and whether this older (1995) construction provides a neutral somewhere for the newer LED dimmers.
Thank you!
Thank you John for this amazing video explaining the different forms of connecting the 3-way light switch.
My pleasure.. Thank you for watching.
Well I'm glad to see that change at long last!
You know some "smart" switches work without neutral by bleeding a little current through the load, but not enough to let it light up (usually); so the load is always live even when it's pretending to be off. I'm surprised it's legal. Maybe it's not, but you can still buy them.
Is it required to use 12-2 for a 3-way light switch?
Well done video! Same question though - why 12 gauge wire for lighting circuit?
Not required if the circuit breaker is 15A or less.
4/2 if fine if on a 15A circuit breaker. I didn't want to say 14/2 and have someone connect that to a 20A circuit.
4/2 if fine if on a 15A circuit breaker. I didn't want to say 14/2 and have someone connect that to a 20A circuit.
Thanks for the code update. I was not aware there was a change. Excellent description and drawings of acceptable circuits.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching.
Great video, however, I was hoping you'd show the wiring for the California switch setup and for the Chicago switch setup and descibe why they're not code compliant, thanks
California three way has no neutral at any switch. And a Chicago three way can have power at the light even when it's off or also reverse polarity
I was curious too and looked them up. Chicago has two separate connections to the light and both switch hot and neutral. If it's neutral from both or hot from both (!) then the light is off. California just switches the hot but has three travelers, with T1, T2, and common all wired together. T2 goes to the hot side of the light and T1 goes to the hot. Neutral goes to the light.
@@Melds This apparently is also called Carter three way. It was banned a hundred years ago. Sin short the witches were reversed so that the power came (to both) from the side with two contacts and the sides with one contact went to the light. Since it was the knob and tube era with single wire cables that made some sense though the risk is obvious. With modern cables that would make no sense at all.
Great suggestion! I'll make a video on those two methods as well.
@@BackyardMaine Thanks, you're videos are very helpful, also, I know the code also says that all outlets, gfci not withstanding, have to be replaced with the arc fault circuit type, hopefully you can do a video on that as well
Thanks. Haven't seen that codebook yet.
Thanks for the update, John.
You bet.. Thanks for watching.
I was waiting to see the California and Chicago methods.
Dustin (Electrician U) shows them in some detail if you're interested, in his description of 3-way switch methods.
@@surferdude642 Thanks, that is an excellent video at Electrician U.
I think the Chicago method comes with a Tommy gun😲🤔
Excellent description of how to properly wire a 3-way switch! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching
Great video. Very clear. I just wired up a room and am so glad I matched up with exactly how you described under the new code!
Glad it helped. Thanks for watching.
As an electrician myself, I was already familiar with those two methods of wiring those switches, but I wish you had ALSO shown the other two methods you mentioned, even the now illegal one, because that way I could identify them and (hopefully) be able to fix them if needed!
I also know of another way of wiring those switches, kind of combining the switch loop of the single pole you showed, with the "dead end" 3-way circuit you showed, however, since that method ALSO doesn't allow for a neutral in the switch boxes, (UNLESS you use a 3-wire between the light fixture box and the first switch box), so I'm not sure if that method is legal now either, with thenew 2023 code... I guessI need to read up on that!
I will make another video on the other two methods. Stay tuned. I know the method you're talking about. It's rare but I have seen it. Usually done when someone wanted to add a couple of 3-ways to control a light that was originally on a single pole. I'll add that as well.
Why in 2024 are we running all this expensive Romex to wall switches? Why hasn't the industry gone to low voltage communicating switches and just taking power to outlets and fixtures? Material cost would go down, labor would go down, and flexibility would go through the roof.
Maybe because it allows more options for future upgrades. For example if needing to add an electrical outlet or other powered device, hot neutral and ground could be obtained from a switch box if nothing else in the area is available.
Reason 2 simplicity and reliability of not using relays/contactors when a single pole switch could be used.
I realize those aren't super strong arguments but since when does the NEC use solid reasoning for everything
That is what I am doing on my current project . Centralized power conversion to low voltage . And running LV wire to all switches and lights which include communications.
Switches are incredibly durable and, being inside a junction box within a wall, rarely need replacement. In the event one does need to be replaced, you need to kill the breaker. (Depending on local codes, this can be a massive pain.)
Light fixtures are (usually) fully exposed - not only are they more vulnerable to damage, but also frequently changed for aesthetic reasons. This is in addition to using fragile bulbs which need regular replacement and sometimes break in a manner which exposes live voltage.
This is why live voltage is run only to switches and outlets - NOT to fixtures. When the switch is turned off, there is ZERO voltage going to the fixture(s).
@@twylanaythiasWhat? Would you please explain how it’s a major pain to turn off the breaker to a light in a home with modern wiring?
@@guri256 With rare exceptions (like most kitchens), each breaker controls an entire room. Clocks, TVs, computers, and everything else in the room running on AC is going down/out when you turn off the breaker. Assuming, of course, that you flip the right breaker the first time - breakers are commonly mislabeled, assuming that they're even labeled in the first place.
Even if you live by yourself (no kids to complain about not being able to play video games, partner to be upset about not being able to use their computer, all of them complaining because the internet is off, etc), it can be a real hassle to get everything back up and running, clocks reset, etc. Add to this the operating assumption that nothing ever goes 100% as planned (particularly when it involves working on someone else's work), you can see how quickly a 'simple repair' can turn into a massive headache.
I have always tied the neutrals together in all my switches and used the std. wiring method in all the 3 and 4 way switches. Done it that way for over thirty years. I never like the loop methods. Nice to know I was doing it correctly.
thanks for the update !
Just ignore those pesky codes and do it the fail safe old school way. Forget inspections, they cost money and you were doing this job yourself to save money in the first place. 😁
Noooooooooo!
LMAO 🤣🤣🤣
Okay Ron Swanson... 😅😂
Inspections are free. Fuck you talking about?
So with that advice should we call you when the insurance company won’t cover the damages ??
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wow you almost made it a full 60 seconds before screwing this up. First it was NEVER legal to reflag any conductor less than #6 under the code period. Second white is not nor ever has been the designation of "neutrals" white has always had the designation "grounded current carrier" and had a specific exception for this application therefor no reflagging of the white conductor in this configuration was implied or proper even if the wire were #6 (you only ever mark some other color TO white NEVER white to something else EVER PERIOD don't do it it is a mistake. The same is true for green and the section on marking is VERY detailed and exact in this regard with shall and must playing a large part in the descriptions and circumstances listed)
As to the change? it is moot to me , my experience is that wiremen have been feeding at the switch or even home running from such boxes for 50 years or more as simply good practice and rarely if ever used switch loops and only in closets and crawl spaces where the use of powered devices is uncommon...also this change does not solve the grandfathered installations none of which are required to be upgraded to meet this code so the problem still exists and will always exist in some capacity.
But are you being paid by this product to promote it? Be aware of the legal troubles Dave Ramsey is in for not letting his many followers that trust him to promote products know that he is also paid by the companies that are being promoted. Just a helpful tip as you are very helpful to us here in video land!
Thanks.. I have to be careful. I'm covered by the paid promotion text at the top of the video screen and of course I have to say that this video is sponsored by whom ever is paying me to promote a product. @@mostthoughtprovoking1494
Why would people run a switch loop when power can be feed from the switch itself?
For dead end, why can't you run an additional 12-2 between SW1 & SW2? Tlhis would give you the needed black hot and cap the whites should a neutral ever be needed in SW2 or code change required.
Thanks John for always explaining the process in really simple ways! Appreciate you brother…I learned a lot today
My pleasure! Thanks for watching.. I really appreciate comments like yours. Thank you.
For the dead-end 3-way, you install a smart switch in the Leg as follows:
use two conductors of the traveler to send power/neutral to the leg's j-box. Use this to power the smart switch.
The third conductor in the traveler goes from the leg's smart slave switch to the "slave" input of the smart switch in the line location.
Leave a note and diagram in the j-box for the confused electrician who comes along years after you're gone.
Problem is, the smart switches stopped having the "slave" wire on many of the models. I don't recall if there are more expensive models, but you can just forget the 3-way and use a X-10 switch that commands the first one; similarly for newer command systems. That means running the power/neutral to it but not using the 3rd wire.
So basically, because some people want the "smart" switches, everyone's life just got more miserable and more expensive. wow, what a progress!
It only applies to new construction and only once your state adapts the 2023 code. The issue has been that in the absence of a neutral wire people connect to the ground wire creating a safety hazard. I always wire with the neutral in the switch box anyway so for many people of us it's a non issue.
From my experience, the only people whose lives will be made miserable by this change are people who run their hot conductor to the fixture instead of to the switch. But in my experience of having never actually encountered that type of wiring I have to say this rule change won't affect that many people.
Shits helpful I just I installed a bathroom fan that had a light and speaker and the switch wanted that white wire
Like 10 minutes and 10 bucks more chill
@@Dwayne_Bearupdoes that matter with A/C electric. The circuit you mentioned would just keep the light powered on, no?
Holy christ, a light switch should never have been wired at the end of a run. not today, not 50 years ago.
Seriously. I'm an amateur, just learning to diy electrical, and I think switch loops are ridiculous. Just ripped out a couple switch loops and replaced with 2023 NEC code compliant wiring, without even knowing the new code, because Duh???
So if the breaker panel is on the north side of a room and the switch is on the south side to control a light on the north side of the room, you want me to run two different 12/2 cables all the way across the room? Sorry, that is silly. You just run a dead end, and usually I would wire it with 12/3 just in case I wanted the neutral there for some later rework. This change to the code just makes this previous nice to have a requirement.
I just don’t understand why you just don’t run a 3 wire to the switch and you have the neutral wire in the box if you need it and you are only running one cable
As @sdkee said, this can require many feet of extra wire in the current carrying path. It also puts an extra splice in the load's neutral and ground connections. For some switched loads this might drop too much voltage or waste too much power. For all, it adds copper cost.
I think part of the issue these days is that copper costs about the same as a crack habit.
When roughing in a house I prefer to run the feed into the switch box, then run the two wire cable to the light fixture. Though I have wired switch loops using 3 wire plus ground cable in certain situations, usually in renovations when I need to add a switch a pull chain style luminaire while doing minimal drywall damage.
I'd like to see you finish this video with another video demonstrating the Chicago and California methods. You just earned a new subscriber
Ive been hearing that in the comments. I'll make another video.
Don't show these guys the suicide 3 way please. You're going to really get someone hurt. You've shown all that they need. If they want to know more they need to do an apprenticeship. Someone's gonna get hurt.
I'm so happy they did this. No neutral switches are dumb. It was hard to find smart switches that had neutral about 2 years ago. I have sensitive equipment and running no neutral switches was a big problem.
It seems the electrical code is not about safety but politics. The new switches may need a neutral so this is about money, not safety.
It actually is about safety. If you have a neutral wire you won’t connect the neutral wire on the switch to ground creating a hazard. Similar to requiring receptacles every 12 feet to keep people from using extension cords. It’s about safe and adequate insulations for the consumer and nothing else.
It’s all about the money jamescole$ just like arc fault breakers.
Go to electrical school if you want to know, it's about saftey. Needing a neutral is not only for saftey but also allows for future switches that may be installed.
@@leif901-5 it’s about money, control, and power. Nothing to do with actual safety for people. Who do you think profits from wifi connected smart light switches? Not regular people.
This is absolutely about SAFETY. It is more evident in commercial settings, where the color of conductors can be a factor and upgrades to facilities (i.e. added devices/ loads) require better more than just what was standard decades ago. This will also save homeowners thousands of $ because they won't have to demo finished material just to add a few devices. Just because someone benefits monetarily from a change doesn't mean that the change was for money.
On dead end 3 way's I would use the Red and White for travelers and use the black for the switch (lighting load) leg. Thanks for sharing the code update
I do the same. Hopefully a little less confusing for the next guy
This was a great explanation of the latest changes in those parts of the National Electrical Code that are going to affect most homeowners and DIYers. Thanks for taking the time to carefully explain the material and thanks to AG1 for being a sponsor.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
Thanks for bring some of up to speed pn switch loops!
Finally, thank goodness, I have always wired like this any way,poor to the switch box first it makes for easy trouble shooting also.The first time I ever noticed a two wire to the switch box like that was when I came to the high desert and troubleshooting shooting cheap spec homes, these cheap contractors trying to save three feet of romex .
I never saw a marker for the hot line with the bare wire running in the baseboard. ahhh those were the days..... Don't have to strip the insulation off when you sell the copper.
At 2:08 I’ve been wiring since I was eight years old. But for many years now I don’t cut the common nor ground while wiring a switch. I loop the ground wire around switch’s ground and fold balance of that grounding wire to back of switch box. The common doesn’t get cut and is simple folded to back of stitches box! This way I never worry about a connection that could fail! The black “Hot” cut and install on switch properly! Oh forgot I’m 70 now!
Thanks for your time 😊
My pleasure 😊
Excellent description and PRESENTATION!!!
Thank you.
These past few code videos you’ve posted are among the best teaching videos I’ve ever watched on Electrician UA-cam. New subscriber, I look forward to more of your excellent, easy to understand content. If this were feedback on eBay, I’d say “A++ seller, highly recommended!!”
Wow, thanks! Much appreciated. More to come.
A very good presentation, thanks. I always forget how to wire 3 way switches no matter how many I do, if I don't do these often enough.
My lights are completely different in that my switch boxes carry no current at all. Mine have no hot, no neutral & no ground. They have two bell wires in them that lead to the grey terminals of Sonoff Mini R2 smart WiFi controllers. These terminals only sense a change in ground of the logic chip, and still utilizes the traditional wall light switch to control the light. Lights can be controlled via the app, voice, wall switch, routines and timers. This method will not allow dimmers to function. I have one lamp in each room with dimming function that is smart.
I chose this option due to the high cost of wire, having a huge 19 room - 90 year old home. Not only did I not have a neutral, had cloth wire, and I didn't even have a ground.
The important thing about the 'Dead End' method is that its an easy single wire way to convert a single way switch to two way. Its not yet common or a requirement in the UK to fit a neutral in a new installation.
One of the best explanations I've seen. Thank you
Thank you..
Excellent - especially the 4 way
jr
We used to refer to those 2 different ways to wire a 3-way as:
1.Take the neutral to the light; or
2. Feed the farthest switch first.
Good way to remember them. Which one to choose depends on how the circuit is run.
Nice video. Thanks.
Thanks for sharing
for the dead-end 3-way: use the 14-3 red and white conductors as travelers, use the black of the 14-3 as controled conductor and you won't have unmatched joints in the line box.
What a blessing you are john thank you very much
So nice of you. Thanks for watching my friend.
Well thank goodness there is actually a real, practical reason to require the neutral at the switch box (function of LED dimmer switches that need the neutral for their circuitry).
Simple but explains everything perfectly! Thanks for sharing.
My pleasure.
As an electrician I never ever bring power to light, I bring my power into the switch then I know my light is never hot. I also made sure that there was a neutral in switch in case yiu needed to run an other box ect from there. The update is just something I’ve done for decades.
In my world (mostly industrial), there were two ABSOLUTE RULES, for switch circuits. ONE, that you ALWAYS feet the top of Switching Devices and take Switch Legs from the bottom. As you showed the switch with the three conductor upgrade, the Red Switch Leg was on Top. TWO, you carry the Black as Hot all the way to the TOP of the switch and then Black Tape the White Switch Leg back to the Feed to the fixture, for what we refer to as the Light Feed method (as opposed to the Switch Feed Method).
When I used to teach these things in an industrial trade school (1970s), we used a simple but descriptive method for referring to the various switch and fixture combinations. The first designation was the point where the Hot Feed was present. Example: Switch - Light, Switch - Switch - Light, Switch - Light - Switch, Light - Switch - Switch - Switch, etc. My students left knowing how to wire all of them using this terminology (they didn't need to remember which state they were in).
One last point that was not mentioned. One of my vary first residential jobs was for an elderly lady who complained that she had trouble at night, turning all the appropriate light switches on and or off. I told her that I could arrange every switch so that she could just walk through the house and push every switch down. Over the years, I probably had 50 such requests from all of her friends. I never leave a job without such switch treatment. Hint: As you drew the Three way circuit (travelers - top to top and bottom to bottom, one switch would always be Up and One would always be Down when the Light is Out, hence I "X" the travelers to achieve Both Down = Off (for the elderly ladies of the world)...
i used to do a bit of this at my last plant before i moved to a new automotive plant but havent done much in the last 4-5 years. i always ran my power to the switch first probably because i worked with ladder logic more so than this general receptacle/outlet/switch wiring so it just seemed smartest to run my power to the switch before anything else
Ahh yes ladder logic. I have worked with that for decades. Mostly AB PLCs.
Yep. AB slc 500 through the latest RSLogix (which just confuses me)
@@truthsayers8725 Before I left we upgrade our RODI water plant for SLC 500 to RSLogic. It was a nightmare because the plant runs 24x7 We bring everything over in little pieces and TIs risk tolerance for an unexpected shutdown was 0%.
The simple way I use is a 14/3 from switch to fixture, which takes all the guess work out, and there is a neutral for the smart switches. A good idea to ask the customer what typr lighting will be used in the future, just like the potential future EV in the garage, easier to install a sub panel for an EV during construction...if not an EV, you got an outlet for a second stove or welder!
Great info and video as usual! Thanks.
My pleasure.
Thank you for sharing this.
My pleasure! Thanks for watching..
Thank you for your service
Much appreciated. 🇺🇸
Was Electronic Tech before Working with AC. Helper First, then went for Electrican Job, Future Employer drew 2 3 way switchs, source, and Bulb. In my diagram, I put a Neutral to one of the Traveller screws, Hot to other traveller screw on both switches. Actually works, 2 hots or 2 neutrals, bulb wont lite. 1 hot1 neutral does. Problem or danger is, Bulb Shell is live in 1 of the 2 conditions. Large Prong on cord insure shell is never live. Been a Master for about 20 years.
Well Explained thank-you!
This was really informative! Thanks for sharing!
Awesome.. Thanks for watching.
Really easy to use explanation! Thank you.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching.
Great video. Thank you
You bet.. Thanks for watching.
It's great to see that the code is actually requiring this now. I replaced most of the switches in my home with smart switches some time back, and every single one of them required either fishing a new wire through the wall (if I was lucky) or ripping out part of the wall to re-run things (if I wasn't), and it was a huge pain.
Personally, I've always preferred feed-through wiring anyway, but unfortunately it seems to be a very uncommon way to do things in my area for some reason...
FWIW there are smart switches that don't require a neutral. They always allow small amount of current through to remain on, so low-wattage bulbs might flicker, but a bypass can be added. I have a lot of inovelli switches in my 1940 house and they were simple to install.
It is probably a question of where is power coming from. If power is running through the attic, it seems natural to lower a loop just to a switch. If power is distributed from the basement, then run through switch and then up to the fixture would be obvious thing to do.
When there's no neutral, you can still install smart switches, just not those that combine the user-facing side and the electricity-switching side in one unit. Rewire the distribution box to feed all wires through on the same colour, add a user-facing switch to the switch box that now has live and neutral, and add a head-less smart switch (relay) to the light fixture (or inside the distribution box) that now has unswitched live and neutral.
However, you lose the ability to control the lights at the switch when the home automation fails.
Well presented, straight foreword. Thank you.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching..
Great and clear visual and explanation. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching
You have a good teaching method and are easy to listen to. Thanks.
Glad you think so! Thanks for watching
Good video. I'm a former electrician/contractor. Good to learn the new rule.
Given this, and the cost of wire these days, I'm wondering if relay switching is becoming more popular for basic residential installations. I.e., no exotic control systems, just basic residential. Seems it might have an edge in the current market.
Fantastic explanation! Thanks!
Thank you.. Glad it was helpful!
Great explanation and I was able to follow!!!! Thanks!!
Glad it helped!
Nicely done!
First video of yours that I've seen but this is great information!
Glad you enjoyed it! More to come.
Nice class. Well worth it.
Thank you.. Much appreciated.
I’ve always run the neutral in each switch box by using 14/2/2 for 3 way switch so I can carry the travelers and power to the next switch box .
You obviously haven't been around that long, as 14 2 2 hasn't always been available. It's a newer concept, being absolutely ridiculously overpriced. So for you amateur wannabe sparkys, you don't tear your walls open, you install smart bulbs or lamps. If you can't figure things like 3 and 4 way switches out, hire an electrician that has proven himself with 8000 proven hours before they can call himself or herself an electrical journeyman!. Next thing you know all you geniuses will be attempting service upgrades by watching UA-cam. Good way to end up crispy critters.
@@jimfee2753 I’m sorry , only got 29 years behind me as electrician and 14/2/2 has been around for over 15 years , good named supply house stock it like 12/2/2 , but good luck to find it in hardware store .
@@jimfee2753 you’re probably right , I only got 32 years of electrical work experience behind me , and I’ve been using 14/2/2 and 12/2/2 for at least over 15 years since the NEC rule about carrying the neutral/grounded wire isn’t that new .
Thanks John!
My pleasure.. Thanks for watching.
Best explanation that Ive viewed. Thabk you!
Awesome.. Thanks for watching.
Excellent, thank you!!
My pleasure. Thank you.