Yeah, I have a beef with Kenobi in tier 5. He took form 3 to SUCH a high level that it was barely recognizable as form 3 anymore. The deadliest form 3 fighter ever, you can’t drop him to 5. SAME argument with Dooku, likely the greatest form 2 practitioner.
Agree op. Kenobi’s results speak for themselves. Kinda crazy ppl think he was just lucky. Waiting for the mistake isnt just luck. He even warned anakin. 😂
@@connorbell2035 yes and no. 1v1 yes most of them are as more modern Jedi learned different forms to become more well rounded and better against blaster fire.
@@saibotshawdow5090 ok there no no about it modern Jedi didn't learn combat as effectively as ancient Jedi there isn't a single master who could touch an old republic soldier much less an ancient sith please I encourage you to watch his videos about the old republic era the old republic was a war era with warriors and powerful battle masters non of which would lose to the modern
This channel has never been about facts lol, it’s been about personal bias and recycling content and stupid opinions. It’s why I barely give this dude views
Obi wan is highly underrated! Think of who he beat in The Clone Wars and after. He defeated Darth Maul, General Grievous, Dark Anakin and Vader no other Jedi order member during that time frame was as prolific against very tough opponents. Obi Wan is always highly underrated. His intellect and connection to the force were strong and using his Saber form 3 (which he was the indisputable master of) made him seem to be always on the defensive while waiting for the moment to strike. Obi Wan was very wise and able to use his force connection and substantial skills to his ultimate advantage against most other adversaries.
I do agree Obi is a beast, but he AIN'T underrated in no shape or form, just look at the people above him. The people above him are MOMSTERS, it isn't just a tier list with just good lightsaber duelist but THE BEST of the best duelists
Given that mace's lightsaber style got stronger the more angry his opponent got yh i think so too but lets say he straight away gets into a fight with someone that is unbareably stronger than bim and they unleash the full 100,000% of their abilities straight away. I bet mace wouldnt win the fight
I think SIdious's force ability to weaken your connection to the force translates to his ability in a light saber duel. making the Jedi feel fear and self doubt. is enough to distract a Jedi so he can't even use the light saber to the best of his ability. It didn't work on Windu because they are vessels for the darkside and tapping into any dark side ability would only make WIndu just that much more powerful. I think at least in Canon Windu's duel vs Sidious is the only true duel when it came to Lightsaber vs Lightsaber combat as far as Sidious is concerned because he didn't have the advantage with those other passive darkside abilities
I’m really glad you didn’t include Kit Fisto anywhere on this list. Anyone who never took his craft beyond form 1 was always going to be at a disadvantage against masters in my opinion, no matter how much they refined the form. Plus Sidious just plowed right through him like he wasn’t even there.
Uh...so here's the thing...a master of a form is a master duelist. If anything, he should at least be in Tier 5, and comparing him to Sidious is completely unfair imo. Kit was able to nearly beat Grievous on his own, which Obi Wan actually beat.
@@casartherandom3010 technically Kit did beat Grievous. If you watch their fight, there was no point where Fisto looked stressed out, especially after he got his hands on the 2nd saber and pulled some Jar'Kai out of his ass (granted it was canon Grievous, not Legends). He only fled because Magnaguards showed up. Not discounting Obi-Wan's feat of actually succeeding in killing Grievous, but Kit was NO slouch.
@Aidan Anderson 😅that's crap logic. I can name 3 totally different sports where players mastery over the fundamentals made them all time greats. Mastery of any form is still....MASTERY PERIOD
@@aidanderson53X you would be a fool to assume that the fundamentals are not more important than the advanced craft, a master, who forgets the fundamentals is not a master
While I agree with most of the list, my gripe is with Dooku's placement. Also, why was Satele Shan not included, but Malgus was? I need an explanation for that.
Malgus beat her on Alderaan in the lightsaber duel, but she is stronger in the force. It’s the singular reason she lived through that fight. He also bested her master, who was better than her at the time as well.
I partly agree with you on Dooku's placement. I think he was an amazing duelist, and probably one of the best. Although when it comes to his overall skill with a light saber, I think he is lacking compared to others.
I agree that Dooku at his best should rank higher (As in AOTC and Clone Wars Dooku). Though if we're talking ROTS Dooku, he supposedly went backwards in skill, partly due to his age, partly due to the war wearing him out and partly because he apparently neglected his usual saber practice in favor of force related studies around that time. Apparently Yoda even noted that by ROTS, Dooku wasn't what he used to be back in AOTC and Clone Wars and his skills had regressed. One thing people do overlook about him though is that while he favored form 2 and perfected it, he was actually quite skilled in all the other forms, just not to on the same level as form 2.
Starkiller was extremely powerful in the force which is what helped him through most of his fights with those bigger more powerful guys. It wasn’t as much his sheer ability with the blade. However, I agree he should at least be on the list
Why is Palpatine Tier 3 and Dooku Tier 4, when Dooku is canonically a better lightsaber duelist than him. It is even stated that Palpatine knew that Dooku was a better duelist than him 🤷🏼♂️
i believe darth traya deserves an honorable mention. her ability to duel her opponents using telekinesis to wield her blades is really cool and quite unique at that!
Totally agree with Grand Master Luke at the top. He ended up being the ultimate force user that ever lived. Not very familiar with the sith guy you put with him so can't say anything about that. There is no doubt that Mace Windu should have been in the same tier as Yoda and above Sidious. After all Mace beat Sidious fair and square as Mr. Lucas said himself. Sidious didn't throw the fight. Mace was to powerful for Sidious to play around with. After Mace disarmed him, Sidious wasn't a man scrambling away like he was playing a game. He scrambled away like a man who was infear of losing his life. To think otherwise is someone with an evil heart and who thinks evil should win over good. Ex Ar Kun would get destroyed by Mace cause he is the perfect person to fight using Vaapad. I think Obi Wan should be higher too. Look his kill record. Maul, General dickhead, Anakin, I mean come on. He didn't kill Anakin but there is no doubt he beat him and beat him good. Although we never really got to see Plo Kloom use his lightsaber, according to everything, he was suppose to be one of the best so he should have been higher as well. How come Darth Maul wasn't anywhere in the list? Surely at least tier 5. I don't know about putting Cade Skywalker above so many others. He stopped training when he was a young teenager. Sure he beat Krayt but you have many who beat another in lower tiers then the one they defeated so that shouldn't make a difference.
Agreed, unfortunately we know very little about Tulak Horde, but in the old republic games he is mentioned as an exceptionally powerful duelist and sith on multiple occasions. He never lost a duel in his life and was stabbed in the back by his apprentice who was too scared to fight him. Apparently he killed more Jedi than any other sith, personally I don’t know the truth to that, but I do know he belongs in tier one with Luke.
My problem with people who suck Lukes dick is that they failed to remember that Vader never actually lost to Luke, he purposefully, threw the battle, and did all of that just to prompt him to tap into the Darkside, but it is quite obvious that he did not go all out and only defended against Luke… Anybody with even one eye can tell you that Vader is a very aggressive duelist so there is no way in hell you can tell me that he did not let Luke win
I must only slightly correct you when it comes to Jaina and Jacen Solo's power levels - they were equals in POTENTIAL. The reason why Jacen's skills far outmatched her was because of his years-long pilgrimage where he studied nearly every single force discipline - Jedi and non-Jedi disciplines alike - until he was at LEAST proficient in them. The only one who could out match Jacen was Luke. This is why Jaina went to study with Boba Fett - because she needed to learn skills that Jacen did not possess. And who could teach you how to hunt and kill a Jedi better than old man Boba. That part where Boba pulls a lightsaber and totally sucker punches her taught her a valuable lesson that pretty much led to her beating Jacen. And her being Fett's "apprentice" was SICK - because he basically saw it as a long overdue vengeance for Windu killing his father AND for Jacen killing his daughter. Man I absolutely LOVED those Legacy of the Force novels - still do. Partly because Karen Traviss pretty much laid trhe groundwork for everything Mandalorian - even down to creating their language. Her iteration of Boba Fett is still the best imho and should have been at least partly used to tell his story in the Book of Boba Fett. He was a BADASS Mandalore and the Mandalorian's were even more like Spartan's than they are now.
Yeah, LOTF was simultaneously the best and most frustrating legends series for me. That's mostly because I love so much about how they wrote Caedus but they only gave him a little over a year as a Sith and very few feats for someone so skilled and powerful. I quite enjoyed Jaina training with Fett but it should either have been a longer series or taken place over a few years to really let him show some more dark side power.
@@kirtmanwaring3629 TOTALLY agree. Caedus should have gotten way more shine in that series. And just my opinion but Lumiya was a bit of a weak character to write in as his "master". Another thing - if you didn't read the Dark Nest Trilogy that came out right before LOTF, then you may be a little confused as to why Jacen and his family - mainly his TWIN sister, have grown so distant and where the friction between he and the Jedi and even his own parents comes from. I like that his fall mirrors his grandfather's in many ways as well, and it's quite intentional and not because of some lack of originality. The whole theme of history totally repeating itself is in your face throughout the series. Not surprising as he is basically the template for Kylo Ren. It was so on the nose they just should have called him Jacen and made "Rey" his estranged sister who was merely hiding from the First Order. Just my opinion though. And the MAIN villain should have been PLAGUEIS. Talk about missed opportunities.
@@marcoslaureano5562 I’m mostly with you. Only disagreement I can see is I kind of liked Lumiya. Alema had a point when she told the One Sith Jacen was borking up everything with his impatience after Luke didn’t let Lumiya fall …
@@kirtmanwaring3629 Good point. BUT, I didn't mean she was weak in the sense of her powers - I meant that she was not intimidating the way a Sith Master should be in the eyes of their apprentice. The Sith master is supposed to at least project some measure of invincibility in order to build a hunger and covetousness for that power in their apprentice's mind. There was none of that with Lumiya. I mean it's not like she was playing him because Jacen saw right through her ruse. It was ALWAYS about gaining a measure of vengeance on Luke - I mean let's be honest - it's not like he needed her, so their relationship seemed kind of pointless. But I hear you.
this is probably a hot take, but I think knightfall anakin is tier 1. it's the closest the chosen one ever got to peak strength, and he was able to defeat the entire jedi temple. he lost to obi wan because of his emotions, where as in the jedi temple anakin only felt rage, nothing else.
Yeah Knightfall Anakin was literally insane in power and skill. Temple Knightfall Anakin would’ve demolished basically everyone. If that Anakin faced Obi Wan, instead of the unbalanced, emotional wreck, he would’ve beaten Obi Wan
@@ihatecoffee7185 no im talking about anakin during knightfall, like in the jedi temple. Anakin on mustafar, like i said, was overcome with emotions compared to peak, close to full potential, knightfall anakin
@@ZippyzzzReal i don't think anakin was 100% emotionally sound and focused while killing children lmao. and, one could argue that he's always been more powerful when he was emotionally conflicted and such
What about Maul ? He was fast, extremely acrobatic and very skilled with the lightsaber. Hes defence was perfect followed up with lightning qiuck conters. He beat Qui-Gon and Obi - Wan at the same time and in the clone wars Sidius couldnt beat him until he resume to force powers ...
Sidious definitely was winning against Maul before using the Force. He loses to Obi-Wan several times on several occasions, and Obi-Wan is toward the bottom of this list
Sidious is not the person to bring up if you’re trying to make a case for mauls abilities. He is very powerful but that fight with Sidious was basically a lion playing with a mouse. Sidious could have used his powers however which way he chose to. I seen that fight many times and Sidious wasn’t forced into any single position but was displaying dominance on every level.
@@sorin_markov he didn't beat him him in TCW, he beat Savage and then was blasted by Maul with a force push. Old Ben was well rested, prepared and at his strongest mentally, Maul wasn't and even had chunks missing from his legs as the gallery on that episode points out.
IIRC Luke Skywalker stated that he had become stronger than ever before some time after he defeated DE Sidious, which is more evidence that he wasn't even at his peak when defeating Sidious (even with the amp he got from Leia).
Luke is certainly one of the Greatest of all time. He became the Greatest Jedi Master ever. He found a perfect balance within to harness all of the force. The Chosen One legacy continued in Luke, and became manifested in one of THE most Powerful force users to have ever existed.
This tierlist is still weird tbh, Exaar Kuun’s ghost gave full potential Luke a very hard battle and that alone warrants him a tier 1 spot, Revan has far more ability with a saber then tier 4, tier 2 is more appropriate without my bias, Obi deserves tier 3 at the least but tier 2 is more appropriate given he has the most impressive wins and turned a weak style into a force of nature and honestly I did t watch most of it past Obi’s ranking as I skipped to the end so I don’t even know how bad the other placements are
Decent list. While there are a few placements I am completely baffled by such as Dooku's low rank, I understand that making and releasing such a potentially controversial list takes balls. And for that, your work is greatly appreciated 👍
Not to offend or discredit Count Dooku, but I thought it was mentioning that his mastery of Form II in his generation might've been partly because the rest of the Jedi at the time had dropped Form II or at least don't consider it a lot. Since the Rule of Two Sith kept to the shadows for centuries, the Jedi believed they no longer needed to practice Form II since they didn't think they'd ever again be fighting any other lightsaber duelist
Love the video! , I was disappointed to see that the great count/Darth Tyranis wasn't really acknowledged for his lighsaber dueling. As he proved himself well worthy of such great titles , especially during the clone wars .
I do think Maul should be on the list (tier 5), judging by this list. His duel on Naboo was impressive and he was quite young. I think the main thing that holds him back is his arrogance making it hard for him to finish fights. Ahsoka and Obi-Wan, both out-skilled by Maul, have bested him. He is equal approximately to Kenobi and him putting up a somewhat decent fight against Sidious was impressive.
Maul is one of the most skilled and most powerful Sith of all time, unfortunately for him he gets in his own way far too much. It’s interesting how a lot of Maul’s issues and problems really stem back to the way Sidious really raised him. Sidious was basically Maul’s abusive father Though regardless of all that, I agree based off pure skill, Maul absolutely should’ve been on this list. I would’ve moved Dooku up to Tier 3 and put Maul in Tier 3 as well. I also would’ve moved Obi Wan up to high tier 4
You could've put Mace at the low end of Tier 3. Wasn't nobody really contending with him in his era outside of Sidious, Dooku, Yoda, and mabye dark Anakin.
Say, here's a couple of ideas for more tier lists you can do: a tier list on your favorite Lightsaber duels, and also a tier list on all Lightsaber forms and fighting styles and which you think are the best.
I would've included Satele Shan too, placing her into tier 3 (maybe 4, but no higher than 3) as she was a prodigy but lost duels aginst Darth Malgus multiple times, saving herself only by her Force abilities. Also, canon Obi-Wan Kenobi should be in tier 4 or 3, since he could battle Darth Maul and Savage Opress simultaneously for a short while and severly injure the latter.
Kenobi won against Greevous in Canon and in Legends, since they are both smart, they can inhance their phisical abilyties, so Kenobi won by his lightsaber dueling skills ... Obi Wan Kenobi > General Greevous
U can tell because in episode two and 3 Anakin Skywalker uses Form 6 when he kills the Sand people and when he kills the Sepretists on Mustafar and that lightsaber combat form is exactly the same as what Luke is using in the hallway in this video. It does however specialise in Form V as Form VI is a combination of Forms I to V specialising in a certain style.
After watching the video and reading some of the comments I've gotta say everyone has some good picks tho no one is mentioning Galen Merrick. He was extremely well trained by Vader in lights Saber combat and even more aggressive when his clone was taught. I feel like he should have been an honorable mention. I know tho he used the force in combination with his light Saber when fighting. Also he's pretty much taken on armies as well.
Loved this video would be cool if you made a strictly canon version of this as well but tierlists are definitely a great addition to your collection of videos on here
Canon only list would be boring. I can already tell you that: Palpatine and Yoda would be at the top. Then, Mace, all other canon sith and a couple jedi masters. Then everyone else. There just isn't enough feats to properly rate most characters.
Also, just to stir up a hornet's nest, how would you even place sequel characters? They were never involved in a serious lightsaber duel with a trained lightsaber wielder.
@@gavve7105 Rey and kylo are both very strong with the force but not the best with there sabers I have a tier list but it’s overall so it’s tough to say maybe on part with sone of the inquisitors or Ezra and the top 3 are always obvious but the rest are pretty mixed
The people that are complaining about obi wan being in tier 5 while people that he could beat in duels were above him need to be reminded that this is a legends tier list, if obi wan fought legends grievous on utapau (or any of their previous encounters in the clone wars tv show) he would have died in 20 seconds, grievous in canon was literal cannon fodder that lost to kit fisto. While legends grievous could take take on several jedi masters all at once and win easily, canon grievous had to resort to dirty tricks because he was struggling against a lone padawan.
I think what people miss about Obi-Wan is that he continually displays strength in every single category. He's probably not the single best at any aspect we can choose, like duelist, living force/perception, using his environment, but he is always aware of his foe's weakness and then exploits it. He does this through patience and perception, it's an incredibly dangerous ability. I don't see how we could call anyone else, with the exception of Luke, as effective at opposing the Sith.
After watching the video and reading some of the comments I've gotta say everyone has some good picks tho no one is mentioning Galen Merrick. He was extremely well trained by Vader in lightsaber combat and even more aggressive when his clone was taught. I feel like he should have been an honorable mention. I know tho he used force in combination with his lightsaber when fighting. Also, he's pretty much taken on armies as well. I think Windu’s victory was legitimate because his style was an advantage where they were fighting as well as it being a specific style that Palpatine had little specific knowledge of. However, I’d like to see how that battle would have gone if you had given Palpatine more space to work with Yoda Obi wan is highly underrated! Think of who he beat in The Clone Wars and after. He defeated Darth Maul, General Grievous, Dark Anakin, and Vader no other Jedi order member during that time frame was as prolific against very tough opponents. Obi-Wan is always highly underrated. His intellect and connection to the force were strong and using his Saber form 3 (which he was the indisputable master of) made him seem to be always on the defensive while waiting for the moment to strike. Obi-Wan was very wise and able to use his force connection and substantial skills to his ultimate advantage against most other adversaries. I think one of the scariest Yoda moments was when he disarmed Assaj and was so confident in himself… he gave her back her light sabers lol Overall good list, but I think Dooku and Mace should be on a higher tier. Thanks for all your content! I believe Darth Traya deserves an honorable mention. her ability to duel her opponents using telekinesis to wield her blades is really cool and quite unique at that! I must only slightly correct you when it comes to Jaina and Jacen Solo's power levels - they were equals in POTENTIAL. The reason why Jacen's skills far outmatched her was because of his years-long pilgrimage where he studied nearly every single force discipline - Jedi and non-Jedi disciplines alike - until he was at LEAST proficient in them. The only one who could outmatch Jacen was Luke. This is why Jaina went to study with Boba Fett - because she needed to learn skills that Jacen did not possess. And who could teach you how to hunt and kill a Jedi better than old man Boba. That part where Boba pulls a lightsaber and totally sucker punches her taught her a valuable lesson that pretty much led to her beating Jacen. And her being Fett's "apprentice" was SICK - because he basically saw it as a long overdue vengeance for Windu killing his father AND for Jacen killing his daughter. Man, I absolutely LOVED those Legacy of the Force novels - still do. Partly because Karen Traviss pretty much laid the groundwork for everything Mandalorian - even down to creating their language. Her iteration of Boba Fett is still the best imho and should have been at least partly used to tell his story in the Book of Boba Fett. He was a BADASS Mandalore and the Mandalorians were even more like Spartans than they are now. I’m really glad you didn’t include Kit Fisto anywhere on this list. Anyone who never took his craft beyond form 1 was always going to be at a disadvantage against masters in my opinion, no matter how much they refined the form. Plus Sidious just plowed right through him like he wasn’t even there. I would've included Satele Shan too, placing her into tier 3 (maybe 4, but no higher than 3) as she was a prodigy but lost duels against Darth Malgus multiple times, saving herself only by her Force abilities. Also, canon Obi-Wan Kenobi should be in tier 4 or 3, since he could battle Darth Maul and Savage Opress simultaneously for a short while and severely injure the latter. Now that you've discussed Anakin from witnessing him in the recent Ahsoka episode, who is now a master of Djemso and his style as Vader without the physical limitations, what tier do you think he would be placed in? Love the video! , I was disappointed to see that the great count/Darth Tyranis wasn't really acknowledged for his lightsaber dueling As he proved himself well worthy of such great titles, especially during the Clone Wars. I was quite pleased with this list, though I would have loved to see an honorary mention of Starkiller Loved this video would be cool if you made a strictly canon version of this as well but tier lists are definitely a great addition to your collection of videos on here Only thing I disagree on is Prime Darth Vader (Knightfall Anikan). The dude was unstoppable, he shift the balance of the entire for and Galaxy in one fucking day. The ferocity and speed at which he delivered blows unto his enemies was nightmarish. He couldn’t even hold back his tears, he wasn’t just “consumed” by the dark side like other Sith Lords, he was ASSIMILATED ❤🔥‼ I’d love to see a force abilities tier list to match this duelist tier list this is probably a hot take, but I think nightfall Anakin is tier 1. it's the closest the chosen one ever got to peak strength, and he was able to defeat the entire Jedi temple. he lost to Obi-Wan because of his emotions, whereas in the Jedi temple, Anakin only felt rage, nothing else. Luke is certainly one of the Greatest of all time. He became the Greatest Jedi Master ever. He found a perfect balance within to harness all of the force. The Chosen One legacy continued in Luke and became manifested in one of THE most Powerful force users to have ever existed next week.
He [Revan] was skilled in all of them [Lightsaber forms] - he was always more of a generalist than a specialist..." Source: Drew Karpyshyn author of The Old Republic Revan If the logic is Bane was placed in tier 3 because he'd mastered all Lightsaber forms than anyone else who had mastered all Lightsaber forms should also be at least the same tier, this would include Revan who is said to have mastered all the knowledge the Jedi had to teach this would include Lightsaber forms and than he became a Sith and mastered Sith Lightsaber combat as well. Revan has even been shown using different forms of Lightsaber combat.
I love revan with your explanation his ranking i can better respect your reason for putting him where you did and with kenobi it’s obvious some didn’t listen to the explanations very well
Mace is definitely a better swordsman than sidious and even beat him in the movie which GL commented that Windu was just better at swordfighting other than general power and force where Windu was also powerful but far inferior to Sidious but hey when it comes to Windu's fencing should be higher.
@@Zovereign Your comment is a contradiction. He stll lost!! To say he lost bc xyz then say he's still superior is absurd. Form VII isnt an automatic win against dark side users. You still nerd comparable skill. Unless you know more than George Lucas.
Dooku being that low is absolutely criminal. I expected him to be much higher because his whole thing was his skill and he was the 3 greatest duelist of the prequel era.
Ever hear about Luke's "Best trick"? It was sad and a humble flex at the same time. "The ability to kill millions all at once" referring to the people he killed on the death star and the multiple times he's bodied fleets and planets of enemies
Just curious how did Porter Engle not make the list? He earned the nickname the Blade of Bardotta, was said to be one of the best duelist to ever live and was said to be a better duelist than yoda, and using the force he would even spar with his own lightsaber. There was even a quote "No one in the galaxy fights like Porter Engle. No warrior can stand against him. No one even comes close. The best there is. The best there ever was"
Vader is best. Lucasfilm confirms this. I see a big problem people face when accepting this is the limitations of film technology, which is why, in the original trilogy, he looks slow and harmless. What I like about recent depictions and possibly the only thing I like about Disney is that they do Vader justice. Vader appears to be less agile but manages to use his a lot more efficiently. Vader also appears to be more in control of his emotions and calm, and his style exhibits a calorevoyeance unlike any other duelist. His fighting style seems effortless. Like a simple parry, it looks like he is swatting a fly away. And just as quickly, he will follow it up with a counter attack.
Vader is the best because he incorporates the Force heavily into his fighting. Even still he has a very clear limit, having been beaten by Luke after only slightly tapping into his anger.
@@masonmalaguti3463 Knows? Yes. Mastered? No. He didn't master Vaapad and he doesn't have the physical ability to have mastered Ataru. The rest he probably could have.
Look buddy Disney fans aren't stupid. I think the sequel trilogy is mostly quite underrated but I certainly wouldn't put Rey anywhere near this list. All her greatest feats are in the Force and with a saber she comes across as basically an amateur throughout.
what about qui-gon he only lost to maul because of the hilt to the face which maul did out of desperation as he felt he was close to loosing the duel, and even his old master dooku was even shocked by his loss and revered him as an amazing lightsaber duellist
Yep Qui Gon is considered one of the best in the order so I suggested people don’t look at his loss to too subjective… with Jedi and Sith it’s like a football team any given Sunday
I honestly disagree with Obi Wan being in tier 5. I mean, the only one who actually beat him with the blade was Dooku, and that's because Dooku's form kind of counters Obi Wan's. I understand that you based your list mostly in legends, and there Obi Wan isn't as strong as others, but he deserves to be at least in tier 3 or 4. Being based in canon, I think the only ones who may be better than Kenobi with the sword are Yoda, Palpatine, and Windu (who also should have been higher on the list).
I agree that luke is the best jedi lightsaber duelist but during empire and Rotj Vader wasn’t going all out against his son his goal was to turn him not kill him and he was conflicted as well and now canon Vader according to Disney is the best lightsaber duelist of all time
Dark Side Yoda would have been the ultimate lightsaber dualist by far. Im basing this on the time Dooku talked Yoda into trying out the dark side just to experience it. Yoda glowed with the power of the dark side. It terrified Dooku as he realized nobody even Sidious had a prayer vs dark yoda. Something else we missed out on was Darth Vaders skill level in his new redesigned suit that was made to increase his skill & not limit it as with the original suit. But since he never got to wear it thats just conjecture. I think probably Luke Skywalker, Windu, Exar Kun, Darth Sidious, & Yoda would be in the top 5 but i can't decide on #1.
mace was very close to yoda as was his force sensitivity and palpatine falls in the same area, with Vapod it's clear it's why MAce won but you can see clearly he is put on his heels by sidious repeatedly. Palpatine uses darkside aided attacks to fight period because of his fragile age, vapod was throwing that back at him tenfold and you can see the difference in footwork and pacing in this fight vs yoda. That could just be production and sam jackson probably wouldn't be flipping all over the damn place but its cool to imagine the pacing was actually so slow because mace was basically taking palpatine's power and throwing it back at him.
Though I agree his tier should be higher. However it also had to go by physical strength and force strength plus variety in technique. He wasn't physically strong, or had any great power in the force. His one truck hit was soresu with no variation. Strictly defense with few counter attacks
@@christophersharp2212 Not entirely true. In the last duel with Vader we saw, Obi Wan switched styles and completely overwhelmed him. Just my opinion but I think he's actually far more skilled and powerful then most of this list when hes pissed or motivated.
Okay, Obi Wans placement is criminal. Wisdom and Wit is clearly a lightsaber skill. Hes also on a completely different level in the most tensed situations. Probably able to solo all of Tier 4 if he knows the fate of everything relies on him. Another one is Windu, GL confirmed he beat Sidious fair and Square.
Just because A. Beats B. And B. Beats C. Doesn't mean A. Beats C. Fights are random and circumstantial, Obi wan Caught Maul Offguard after being outclassed by him untill that moment, he shot Grievous after being overwhelmed by him at times, and he beat a young Anakin he's known his whole life at the moment of his greatest emotional turmoil being able to read him like a book, all impressive feats and more he deserves credit for but it hardly makes him a prodigy on the level of other above him, look at his Dooku fights, in a fair fight against an opponent who couldn't be tricked and had no emotions involved he was soundly defeated twice, meanwhile Anakin lasted longer as a 19 year old Padawan and beat the man straight up by age 24. Btw I'm ignoring Disney Canon it's mostly bad fanfiction
@@simon0yeung and Grievous beat many other masters, losing to one doesn't discredit the wins,Larry Holmes beat Muhammad Ali it doesn't make him the better fighter
@@paigeguerin2607 Sure, you can put other masters who lose to Grievous below him. No problem, but we are talking A vs B right? so if A beats be, it can't be A < B.
@@simon0yeung omg you're thick, listen again Muhammad Ali is considered the best heavyweight boxer,he lost to Larry Holmes, people don't rank Holmes higher just because he beat Ali, Grievous lost to Obiwan doesn't make Obiwan overall the better fighter...he also won by shooting him not straight up besting him.
Ashoka also was disarmed by Maul, inquisitors are actually garbage and not meant to fight actual Jedi, they are more so the hound dogs who sniff out the prey for the true hunter, Vader. Everyone on this list is better than Ashoka, while she did get a hit on Vader, it was a surprise attack and she did end up loosing.
@@southernlegends8594 honestly I disagree because we have only seen like 4 people actually last in a lengthy duel I think that definitely puts her in tier 5
@@elijahmcclung3357 In reality she should have had no shot but she did because Filoni was the showrunner of Rebels and will do anything to protect her and raise her up. It's almost pathological what he will do to keep her alive AND increase her importance/feats.
@@scottb3034 this logic is just bad, she was literally trained by the strongest Jedi to live, along with learning lessons from obi-wan, and yoda. No do I think she could beat Vader, absolutely not, but to say that the only reason she even lasted with him is because filoni is just wrong, she is one of the very few characters that we’ve seen grow from Padawan to master(yes I know she is not a Jedi but still at the skill level of a master) so you have seen how strong she has been you just don’t want to believe that anyone other than obi-wan can fight Vader
Exar Kun is far more powerful than it was shortly explained and heeded here. Jensaarai One explaining Exar as well as 100% Star Wars story telling about this character reveal in-depth information why he most definitely would belong in Tier 1. Lightsaber techniques have not been fully developed yet in the time of Tulak and we do not know how strong he was in the Force to have utilised and implemented it in his lightsaber fighting. Plo was able to defeat Yoda who is in your Tier 5, while Yoda is in Tier 2; so if every information about Exar would be considered deeply, especially how he has implemented the Force like Force Rage (which he perfected) combined with his un-orthodox fighting style as well as his un-orthodox lightsaber (which was unique in many ways), it is save to say that he is definitely a Tier 1 candidate.
Kun had two serious duels in his entire life. One was against Qel Droma which was a draw (that sources state could have gone on for hours). Qel Droma was good, but far from some crazy master duelist. Second was against Vodo Baas, who arguably had the advantage over Kun at the beginning of the fight before Kun ignited the second blade and basically only won due to using an extremely unorthodox lightsaber. Kun even asks Vodo if he "likes the modifications" he made to his lightsaber, was very clearly playing up his advantage. Kun is overrated as a duelist. Not even worth tier 2 to be honest.
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 I don't watch dumb videos. But I can tell it is clearly bullshit scaling that makes no sense. "Tanking supernovas" no character in tales of the jedi tanks supernovas. Anyone who is ever caught in one is killed. Kun was never anywhere near a supernova, he and Ulic tricked Aleema Keto into creating one. The only totj character surviving anything related to a supernova is Ood bnar who survives the shockwaves of a supernova by essentially becoming an extension of the entire planet of ossus (since he comes from a tree species) but other than that nobody in totj tanks anything like that. Kun is nowhere near Ood Bnar in his planetary tree form and literally got blasted when he so much as tried to touch Ood. You are pretty stupid for thinking any sw character has supernova level durability. Also, earlier in the comic Kun literally has every bone broken in his body when Nadd collapses a couple of rocks on him. Loool supernova durability my ass. And more than anything if Exar Kun actually scaled above tanking supernovas a lightsaber wouldn't be any threat to him at all. In face, he would be completely physically indestructible 💀.
If I am not mistaken, I belive Sidius's and Mace Windu's battle is described in the "Revenge of the Sith" novel. Both of them felt Anakin approaching. Windu was hoping he would have Anakin's support, but Sidius's 'promise' of teaching Anakin how to save Padmé got to him. The rest we know.
This list is just frustrating. A couple big ones for me.... 1) Obi Wan is, by far, one of the most accomplished duelists the Jedi have ever had. We can't just write him off as low-tier simply because of the hype afforded to the likes of Old Republic and Ancient sith or jedi. Without making this a paragraph, rest assured... Obi Wan should be in Tier 2 or 3 at least. 2) Dooku is a phenomenal duelist and has seriously impressive feats. He managed to hold his own against Yoda on multiple occasions, and did it well enough that Yoda simply accepted that he couldn't kill him outright. Yoda is the stronger lightsaber duelist but he's not so far beyond Dooku that Dooku wasn't a threat, or couldn't find a way to exploit Yoda's morality to secure an advantage, or escape. 3) Mace Windu created an entirely novel lightsaber form. He is essentially the Anti-Sith that never got a chance to demonstrate his full potential. There's still intense debate surrounding whether Sidious was actually losing to Mace or if he was sandbagging him in order to manipulate Anakin, or some mixture of the two. Either way, there's no Sith of his era that could threaten him aside from Sidious himself. Grievous was the only real threat due to him not actually using the Force to fight, thus circumventing the true power of Vapaad. 4) You included Jacen and Jaina but not Anakin Solo... you know, the kid who went out in such a blaze of glory fighting the Yuuzhan Vong that they literally deified him and worshipped him as a warrior god. Not only that... Anakin was so in tune with his lightsaber craftsmanship that he was able to utilize an entirely original Lambent crystal. The connection he had with his blade and the Lambent crystal allowed Anakin to sense the Yuuzhan Vong in the Force - something no other Jedi could do, including GM Luke Skywalker. Anakin Solo would most likely have gone on to become more powerful than Jacen or Jaina, but at the time of his death he was DEFINITELY the stronger of the three in terms of lightsaber combat. 5) Too much emphasis on ancient sith and jedi that we don't have enough information on. Tulak Hord was basically just a crutch for the KOTOR story... it's debatable if any of the legends surrounding him are legitimate at all. Kreiya herself is not exactly a trustworthy source of information, as she's manipulating circumstances from beginning to end anyway. I can't understand why you would go all in on Tulak Hord sharing the top spot with GM Luke but you didn't include the likes of Anoon Bondara, Darth Maul, Ahsoka Tano, Galen Marek, Corran Horn, Kyp Duron, even T'ra Saa... There are WAY better options with MUCH more lore and confirmed feats than someone like Tulak Hord and even Darth Krayt.
Y’all making obi wan sound like he was disrespected while it was a great on honor he was even on the list. With 10,000 years of history and 10,000 force users that have existed in the dw universe the fact he makes the top 20 is an honor
I really think Ahsoka should be on this list. She was able to hold her own against Anakin and Obi-wan, defeated Maul in the first half of their duel and out smarted him in the second half. She was able to destroy half of Vaders mask and managed to battle him and hold her own a feat very few have ever been able to do. Killing multiple inquisitors.
I think her and maul could definitely go into tier 5 but this is mainly legends continuity so that puts Ahsoka at a huge disadvantage since legends feats are for the most part much stronger than canon feats
@@eeurr1306 Well sometimes you have to since they are in control of the content and characters....but when it comes to their OPINION on things then yeah it gets taken too far and unthinkingly.
Luke most certainly did overcome Vader on the second death star, but if we were dealing with Vader at a point where he wasn't second guessing his attacks on his son, wasn't so old, and wasn't attempting to leave him alive, Luke would've been slaughtered
I genuinely don't understand why Kun is ranked so high. He has only been in like, two serious duels. One of them was with Ulic Qel Droma who stalemated him. The other was Vodo siosk Baas and it was not a one sided fight at all. Based on what I read in tales of the jedi, Vodo isn't much better than any random saber specialist in star wars history. Kun really isn't that good.
Because he mastered all 7 lightsaber forms at a very young age resolutionate Niman to it highest degree, he mastered lightsaber skills from tulak hord kind adas and many other jedi exiled he also recreate his lightsaber staff with ancient technology, was UnStoppable in one on one lightsaber duels because he of how unpredictable he was powerful extremely fast and precise also when he fought ulic he wasn't the sith lord yet and he hadn't found the dark holocrom yet which contained teaching from tulak hord, also he completely overwhelmed a luke Skywalker who was trained by yoda obi wan and emperor papaltine reborn, luke even learned some skills from exar kun
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 Nowhere is it ever stated that he mastered all 7 forms. That is blatantly false. Tulak Hord, King Adas? Those guys lived thousands of years before Kun and he did not master anything from them. Only person who trained Kun in saber combat was Vodo Baas. He was pretty much already a sith lord when he fought Ulic since he had finished his training under Nadd. He just hadn't been declared a dark lord/leader. And according to the comic, Vodo was actually winning the rematch before Kun started using two blades. If Kun didn't have the advantage of using a double bladed lightsaber in an era where they were unknown, Vodo would have won the fight. Kun didn't overwhelm Luke in saber combat. He overwhelmed him through, and with Kyp using the force. If anything, you don't know much about Exar Kun. I suggest you read tales of the jedi.
@@yggunshot8402 🤡 do your research he stole acknowledge from the ancient sith lords that's he became UnStoppable in lightsaber combat, you just hating 😆 🤣 😂 and I have tales of the jedi he did defeated luke in lightsaber combat, you clearly haven't read jedi academy 🤡
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 You definitely haven't read totj lol. You have zero clue what you are talking about. And no, he didn't defeat Luke in saber combat. I haven't read jedi academy but I have seen debates and quotes. He defeated Luke through the force via Kyp Durron. Nothing to do with saber skills.
Windu did not "defeat" Sidious. Sidious needed to force Anakin jnto a moment or crisis. So he allowed Windu to smack the saber out of his hand. He could have killed him at any time and thats what he did. Fact: Windu was no match for the Dark Lord. 9:17
Unpopular opinion: Count Dooku being in Tier 4 is definitely incorrect for me. If we're talking pure 'lightsaber duelling' than I think there's an argument Dooku is one of the best to ever do it. You breezed over him without acknowledging any of his feats. He was a prodigy Jedi for 70 years, and teacher of Jedi Knights. His combat lessons against Yoda were said to be unbelievable, and he was known to best Mace Windu in sparring. Even at the age of 80+ he was able to regularly best Obi-wan & Anakin at the same time, on multiple occasions. And even after defeating the duo he was able to fight Yoda on even ground, after being fatigued. He his the most specialized Jedi/Sith (Perhaps ever) to study Makashi and perfect it to its highest level. And that is the most specialized 'lightsaber duelling' form out of all seven. I believe he's actually a better duellist than his own master, Sidious, since he's got legit Jedi academic training, 70 years of mission deployments and combat experience, and a more specialized duelling style, and that is what this list is about. Dooku is sorely misplaced on this list and I believe his proper ranking should be above Vader but under Yoda.
@@paigeguerin2607 Dooku literally beat Anakin on ever occasion (90% of the time fighting Obi-wan too) bar one. And if you knew anything about Star wars you'd know Sidious told Dooku to let Anakin live during their final encounter. Thats why Dooku easily dispatched Obi-Wan, but let the fight drag out with Anakin. I believe Anakin did legit overpower Dooku at the end, but only after Dooku drew out Anakins rage and let the fight drag on. Not to mention Dooku was at the end of his life (age wise) and Anakin was in his prime, and the fight started off as a 1v2.
@@wallywest9257 wrong also Anakin was nowhere close to his prime he was 24, he beat him because he was better, a sith Lord doesn't just let someone best him.your opinions don't matter only George Lucas original intentions
@@paigeguerin2607 Bro, even if you want to believe Anakin legit defeated Dooku, the duel started off as a 1v2... How is that a fair fight? And Dooku was 80+ y.o, hardly a prime Dooku lol.
There was one key mistake here. Not debating luke is the best because canonically he is. But when he held his own against vader, both times vader was not fighting to kill and thus vader was holding himself back.
Yeah, I have a beef with Kenobi in tier 5. He took form 3 to SUCH a high level that it was barely recognizable as form 3 anymore. The deadliest form 3 fighter ever, you can’t drop him to 5. SAME argument with Dooku, likely the greatest form 2 practitioner.
Everyone higher deserves to be higher
Agree op. Kenobi’s results speak for themselves. Kinda crazy ppl think he was just lucky. Waiting for the mistake isnt just luck. He even warned anakin. 😂
Ok so ancient sith and Jedi are far better duelists then anyone in the modern duelists
@@connorbell2035 yes and no. 1v1 yes most of them are as more modern Jedi learned different forms to become more well rounded and better against blaster fire.
@@saibotshawdow5090 ok there no no about it modern Jedi didn't learn combat as effectively as ancient Jedi there isn't a single master who could touch an old republic soldier much less an ancient sith please I encourage you to watch his videos about the old republic era the old republic was a war era with warriors and powerful battle masters non of which would lose to the modern
I think one of the scariest yoda moments was when his disarmed Assaj and was so confident in himself… he gave her back her light sabres lol
She was like a small child compared to him, and he was giving her a valuable lesson.
was this in 2003 clone wars (animated) or 2008 clone wars (CGI) ?
@@sbizzzy '08
@@sbizzzy Pretty sure it was episode 1 of season 1, '08 series. Man I can't believe it debuted that long ago, I feel so old!
@A Light in the Dark Ages yea after i saw tales of the jedi it made me realize that clone wars will look more dated moving forward
Imagine putting Obi-Wan at the lowest tier then immediately making a HIGHER tier full of people he killed in duels
This channel has never been about facts lol, it’s been about personal bias and recycling content and stupid opinions. It’s why I barely give this dude views
True,He was THE master of soresu He fought a person having 4 lightsabers spinning so quickly but still managed to beat grevious
Obi Wan is one of the duelist
Exactly what I came here to say. 🤦🤦🤦🤦
The disrespect is crazy
Obi wan is highly underrated! Think of who he beat in The Clone Wars and after. He defeated Darth Maul, General Grievous, Dark Anakin and Vader no other Jedi order member during that time frame was as prolific against very tough opponents. Obi Wan is always highly underrated. His intellect and connection to the force were strong and using his Saber form 3 (which he was the indisputable master of) made him seem to be always on the defensive while waiting for the moment to strike. Obi Wan was very wise and able to use his force connection and substantial skills to his ultimate advantage against most other adversaries.
He also defeated Durge during the clone wars
Durge was known for killing Jedi
This is a legends tier list, in legends obi wan would get murked by general grievous
Disney isn't canon you fool. He never beat Vader
I do agree Obi is a beast, but he AIN'T underrated in no shape or form, just look at the people above him. The people above him are MOMSTERS, it isn't just a tier list with just good lightsaber duelist but THE BEST of the best duelists
He barely defeat Maul and Grievious. Same with Darth Vader. Kenobi is a marty sue.
Kenobi on Tier 5 is rediculous. He's defeated Maul, Anakin, Grievous, Ventress and more
Overall good list, but I think Dooku and Mace should be on a higher tier. Thanks for all your content!
Agreed!!
Dooku literally held Yoda at a standoff.
@@zeropointstar Only because Yoda had to save Obi wan and Anakin so yeah nah
lenovo need to be higher
Given that mace's lightsaber style got stronger the more angry his opponent got yh i think so too but lets say he straight away gets into a fight with someone that is unbareably stronger than bim and they unleash the full 100,000% of their abilities straight away. I bet mace wouldnt win the fight
I think SIdious's force ability to weaken your connection to the force translates to his ability in a light saber duel. making the Jedi feel fear and self doubt. is enough to distract a Jedi so he can't even use the light saber to the best of his ability. It didn't work on Windu because they are vessels for the darkside and tapping into any dark side ability would only make WIndu just that much more powerful. I think at least in Canon Windu's duel vs Sidious is the only true duel when it came to Lightsaber vs Lightsaber combat as far as Sidious is concerned because he didn't have the advantage with those other passive darkside abilities
I’m really glad you didn’t include Kit Fisto anywhere on this list. Anyone who never took his craft beyond form 1 was always going to be at a disadvantage against masters in my opinion, no matter how much they refined the form. Plus Sidious just plowed right through him like he wasn’t even there.
Uh...so here's the thing...a master of a form is a master duelist. If anything, he should at least be in Tier 5, and comparing him to Sidious is completely unfair imo. Kit was able to nearly beat Grievous on his own, which Obi Wan actually beat.
@@casartherandom3010 technically Kit did beat Grievous. If you watch their fight, there was no point where Fisto looked stressed out, especially after he got his hands on the 2nd saber and pulled some Jar'Kai out of his ass (granted it was canon Grievous, not Legends). He only fled because Magnaguards showed up. Not discounting Obi-Wan's feat of actually succeeding in killing Grievous, but Kit was NO slouch.
@@casartherandom3010 a master of basic lightsaber moves means you essentially mastered the fundamentals not that you have mastered fighting.
@Aidan Anderson 😅that's crap logic. I can name 3 totally different sports where players mastery over the fundamentals made them all time greats. Mastery of any form is still....MASTERY PERIOD
@@aidanderson53X you would be a fool to assume that the fundamentals are not more important than the advanced craft, a master, who forgets the fundamentals is not a master
While I agree with most of the list, my gripe is with Dooku's placement. Also, why was Satele Shan not included, but Malgus was? I need an explanation for that.
Malgus beat her on Alderaan in the lightsaber duel, but she is stronger in the force. It’s the singular reason she lived through that fight. He also bested her master, who was better than her at the time as well.
I partly agree with you on Dooku's placement. I think he was an amazing duelist, and probably one of the best. Although when it comes to his overall skill with a light saber, I think he is lacking compared to others.
@A Man I appreciate that explanation. Thanks!👍
I agree that Dooku at his best should rank higher (As in AOTC and Clone Wars Dooku). Though if we're talking ROTS Dooku, he supposedly went backwards in skill, partly due to his age, partly due to the war wearing him out and partly because he apparently neglected his usual saber practice in favor of force related studies around that time. Apparently Yoda even noted that by ROTS, Dooku wasn't what he used to be back in AOTC and Clone Wars and his skills had regressed. One thing people do overlook about him though is that while he favored form 2 and perfected it, he was actually quite skilled in all the other forms, just not to on the same level as form 2.
Agreed, also where is Maul and Canon Vader
Even if I were to disagree with any rankings, I'm so appreciative of the content and writing. Thank you
That's one of the thing's the sequel trilogy lacks, is that there's no talent in their lightsaber fights.
The sequels lack in A LOT of things.
A good saber fight would have had more depth then the sequel trilogy
@@ColourlessGreen-b5z I know that
@@spider-man500 Got that right, Spidey.
Because no one knows how to duel legitimately, as when the order fell so did the 7 forms.
I was quite pleased with this list, though I would have loved to see an honorary mention of Starkiller
He'd be Tier 2 or 3 honestly. He beat Vader after all
@@Juuggy and Sidious. Based on how you play the game, he can defeat them with lightsaber alone
Starkiller was extremely powerful in the force which is what helped him through most of his fights with those bigger more powerful guys. It wasn’t as much his sheer ability with the blade. However, I agree he should at least be on the list
@@Juuggy force ability dont count
@@lachlanfarrow7349force ability used to augment their fighting does
Imagine being undefeated except via trickery and only being ranked tier 4. Yall disrespect Windu way too much. Lolol
Take a seat.
Why is Palpatine Tier 3 and Dooku Tier 4, when Dooku is canonically a better lightsaber duelist than him. It is even stated that Palpatine knew that Dooku was a better duelist than him 🤷🏼♂️
i believe darth traya deserves an honorable mention. her ability to duel her opponents using telekinesis to wield her blades is really cool and quite unique at that!
Thats facts
It's not really effective though. Once you isolate each lightsaber she is pretty easy.
@@maradjade1848 in game that is. I would shit my pants at the thought of floating Lightsabers with malicious intent
That’s a force ability. This list was purely about lightsaber combat.
Remember the list is about raw dueling ability not augmented with the force.
Totally agree with Grand Master Luke at the top. He ended up being the ultimate force user that ever lived. Not very familiar with the sith guy you put with him so can't say anything about that. There is no doubt that Mace Windu should have been in the same tier as Yoda and above Sidious. After all Mace beat Sidious fair and square as Mr. Lucas said himself. Sidious didn't throw the fight. Mace was to powerful for Sidious to play around with. After Mace disarmed him, Sidious wasn't a man scrambling away like he was playing a game. He scrambled away like a man who was infear of losing his life. To think otherwise is someone with an evil heart and who thinks evil should win over good. Ex Ar Kun would get destroyed by Mace cause he is the perfect person to fight using Vaapad. I think Obi Wan should be higher too. Look his kill record. Maul, General dickhead, Anakin, I mean come on. He didn't kill Anakin but there is no doubt he beat him and beat him good. Although we never really got to see Plo Kloom use his lightsaber, according to everything, he was suppose to be one of the best so he should have been higher as well. How come Darth Maul wasn't anywhere in the list? Surely at least tier 5. I don't know about putting Cade Skywalker above so many others. He stopped training when he was a young teenager. Sure he beat Krayt but you have many who beat another in lower tiers then the one they defeated so that shouldn't make a difference.
Agreed, unfortunately we know very little about Tulak Horde, but in the old republic games he is mentioned as an exceptionally powerful duelist and sith on multiple occasions. He never lost a duel in his life and was stabbed in the back by his apprentice who was too scared to fight him. Apparently he killed more Jedi than any other sith, personally I don’t know the truth to that, but I do know he belongs in tier one with Luke.
My problem with people who suck Lukes dick is that they failed to remember that Vader never actually lost to Luke, he purposefully, threw the battle, and did all of that just to prompt him to tap into the Darkside, but it is quite obvious that he did not go all out and only defended against Luke… Anybody with even one eye can tell you that Vader is a very aggressive duelist so there is no way in hell you can tell me that he did not let Luke win
The reason why he beat sideous was because of an ability called shatterpoint it wasn't solely due to lightsabre combat skills
I must only slightly correct you when it comes to Jaina and Jacen Solo's power levels - they were equals in POTENTIAL. The reason why Jacen's skills far outmatched her was because of his years-long pilgrimage where he studied nearly every single force discipline - Jedi and non-Jedi disciplines alike - until he was at LEAST proficient in them. The only one who could out match Jacen was Luke. This is why Jaina went to study with Boba Fett - because she needed to learn skills that Jacen did not possess. And who could teach you how to hunt and kill a Jedi better than old man Boba. That part where Boba pulls a lightsaber and totally sucker punches her taught her a valuable lesson that pretty much led to her beating Jacen. And her being Fett's "apprentice" was SICK - because he basically saw it as a long overdue vengeance for Windu killing his father AND for Jacen killing his daughter. Man I absolutely LOVED those Legacy of the Force novels - still do. Partly because Karen Traviss pretty much laid trhe groundwork for everything Mandalorian - even down to creating their language. Her iteration of Boba Fett is still the best imho and should have been at least partly used to tell his story in the Book of Boba Fett. He was a BADASS Mandalore and the Mandalorian's were even more like Spartan's than they are now.
Yeah, LOTF was simultaneously the best and most frustrating legends series for me. That's mostly because I love so much about how they wrote Caedus but they only gave him a little over a year as a Sith and very few feats for someone so skilled and powerful. I quite enjoyed Jaina training with Fett but it should either have been a longer series or taken place over a few years to really let him show some more dark side power.
@@kirtmanwaring3629 TOTALLY agree. Caedus should have gotten way more shine in that series. And just my opinion but Lumiya was a bit of a weak character to write in as his "master". Another thing - if you didn't read the Dark Nest Trilogy that came out right before LOTF, then you may be a little confused as to why Jacen and his family - mainly his TWIN sister, have grown so distant and where the friction between he and the Jedi and even his own parents comes from. I like that his fall mirrors his grandfather's in many ways as well, and it's quite intentional and not because of some lack of originality. The whole theme of history totally repeating itself is in your face throughout the series. Not surprising as he is basically the template for Kylo Ren. It was so on the nose they just should have called him Jacen and made "Rey" his estranged sister who was merely hiding from the First Order. Just my opinion though. And the MAIN villain should have been PLAGUEIS. Talk about missed opportunities.
@@marcoslaureano5562 I’m mostly with you. Only disagreement I can see is I kind of liked Lumiya. Alema had a point when she told the One Sith Jacen was borking up everything with his impatience after Luke didn’t let Lumiya fall …
@@kirtmanwaring3629 Good point. BUT, I didn't mean she was weak in the sense of her powers - I meant that she was not intimidating the way a Sith Master should be in the eyes of their apprentice. The Sith master is supposed to at least project some measure of invincibility in order to build a hunger and covetousness for that power in their apprentice's mind. There was none of that with Lumiya. I mean it's not like she was playing him because Jacen saw right through her ruse. It was ALWAYS about gaining a measure of vengeance on Luke - I mean let's be honest - it's not like he needed her, so their relationship seemed kind of pointless. But I hear you.
Republic Commando is probably my favorite run of SW books, and I have all the Lucasbooks novels
this is probably a hot take, but I think knightfall anakin is tier 1. it's the closest the chosen one ever got to peak strength, and he was able to defeat the entire jedi temple. he lost to obi wan because of his emotions, where as in the jedi temple anakin only felt rage, nothing else.
Yeah Knightfall Anakin was literally insane in power and skill. Temple Knightfall Anakin would’ve demolished basically everyone.
If that Anakin faced Obi Wan, instead of the unbalanced, emotional wreck, he would’ve beaten Obi Wan
in which case obi wan would have to be put in a tier above him for beating him.......
@@ihatecoffee7185 no im talking about anakin during knightfall, like in the jedi temple. Anakin on mustafar, like i said, was overcome with emotions compared to peak, close to full potential, knightfall anakin
@@ZippyzzzReal i don't think anakin was 100% emotionally sound and focused while killing children lmao.
and, one could argue that he's always been more powerful when he was emotionally conflicted and such
@@ZippyzzzReal I think he was close to prime but not full potential, FP anakin would’ve been as powerful as GM luke
What about Maul ? He was fast, extremely acrobatic and very skilled with the lightsaber. Hes defence was perfect followed up with lightning qiuck conters. He beat Qui-Gon and Obi - Wan at the same time and in the clone wars Sidius couldnt beat him until he resume to force powers ...
Sidious definitely was winning against Maul before using the Force. He loses to Obi-Wan several times on several occasions, and Obi-Wan is toward the bottom of this list
@@sorin_markov Not from lack of skill, he was outright beaten in Rebels when he was past his prime.
Sidious is not the person to bring up if you’re trying to make a case for mauls abilities. He is very powerful but that fight with Sidious was basically a lion playing with a mouse. Sidious could have used his powers however which way he chose to. I seen that fight many times and Sidious wasn’t forced into any single position but was displaying dominance on every level.
@@thealmightypancakeface9585 Obi-Wan was also way past his prime. Obi-Wan also beats/draws with him several times in TCW, even when at a disadvantage
@@sorin_markov he didn't beat him him in TCW, he beat Savage and then was blasted by Maul with a force push. Old Ben was well rested, prepared and at his strongest mentally, Maul wasn't and even had chunks missing from his legs as the gallery on that episode points out.
IIRC Luke Skywalker stated that he had become stronger than ever before some time after he defeated DE Sidious, which is more evidence that he wasn't even at his peak when defeating Sidious (even with the amp he got from Leia).
Tulak Hord and Exar Kun are probably the best when it comes down to pure mastery of the lightsaber and a Duelist. A Young Dooku is at least in top 10
Legends Luke could best them both, by himself. He was the pinnacle.
@@Just_Pele Legends grandmaster Luke oh yea for sure. Even if he started losing the saber fight,Luke's force powers would've been too much
@@reyvillegasjr166 Yeah, he was the version in the top tier in this video, because he was insanely gifted in all aspects of the Force.
I've been watching this video on loop since it came out. If you made more videos like this, I'd definitely watch.
I think you all did a good job with this. I like how you included the Legends aspect of some of the characters. IMO, legends is the only canon.
Luke is certainly one of the Greatest of all time. He became the Greatest Jedi Master ever. He found a perfect balance within to harness all of the force. The Chosen One legacy continued in Luke, and became manifested in one of THE most Powerful force users to have ever existed.
🎉
Yeah, Rey Palpatine
This tierlist is still weird tbh, Exaar Kuun’s ghost gave full potential Luke a very hard battle and that alone warrants him a tier 1 spot, Revan has far more ability with a saber then tier 4, tier 2 is more appropriate without my bias, Obi deserves tier 3 at the least but tier 2 is more appropriate given he has the most impressive wins and turned a weak style into a force of nature and honestly I did t watch most of it past Obi’s ranking as I skipped to the end so I don’t even know how bad the other placements are
Decent list. While there are a few placements I am completely baffled by such as Dooku's low rank, I understand that making and releasing such a potentially controversial list takes balls. And for that, your work is greatly appreciated 👍
Dooku was old when he lost
Not to offend or discredit Count Dooku, but I thought it was mentioning that his mastery of Form II in his generation might've been partly because the rest of the Jedi at the time had dropped Form II or at least don't consider it a lot. Since the Rule of Two Sith kept to the shadows for centuries, the Jedi believed they no longer needed to practice Form II since they didn't think they'd ever again be fighting any other lightsaber duelist
Love the video! , I was disappointed to see that the great count/Darth Tyranis wasn't really acknowledged for his lighsaber dueling. As he proved himself well worthy of such great titles , especially during the clone wars .
I do think Maul should be on the list (tier 5), judging by this list.
His duel on Naboo was impressive and he was quite young.
I think the main thing that holds him back is his arrogance making it hard for him to finish fights. Ahsoka and Obi-Wan, both out-skilled by Maul, have bested him.
He is equal approximately to Kenobi and him putting up a somewhat decent fight against Sidious was impressive.
Maul is one of the most skilled and most powerful Sith of all time, unfortunately for him he gets in his own way far too much.
It’s interesting how a lot of Maul’s issues and problems really stem back to the way Sidious really raised him. Sidious was basically Maul’s abusive father
Though regardless of all that, I agree based off pure skill, Maul absolutely should’ve been on this list. I would’ve moved Dooku up to Tier 3 and put Maul in Tier 3 as well. I also would’ve moved Obi Wan up to high tier 4
Same for ahsoka she litt fought darth vader Peak and it was actually a close fight
@@Reichverdienernot really she only got one strike off and it was only because he was focused on Ezra
Maul beat Ahsoka, but he put his lightsaber away
You could've put Mace at the low end of Tier 3. Wasn't nobody really contending with him in his era outside of Sidious, Dooku, Yoda, and mabye dark Anakin.
Say, here's a couple of ideas for more tier lists you can do: a tier list on your favorite Lightsaber duels, and also a tier list on all Lightsaber forms and fighting styles and which you think are the best.
That wld be sick!
Pretty darn accurate, can't disagree anywhere.
Your star wars videos are amazing they make me so happy I'll will never stop watching your channel so happy i find this
Having Obi Wan at tier 5 is insane
I would've included Satele Shan too, placing her into tier 3 (maybe 4, but no higher than 3) as she was a prodigy but lost duels aginst Darth Malgus multiple times, saving herself only by her Force abilities. Also, canon Obi-Wan Kenobi should be in tier 4 or 3, since he could battle Darth Maul and Savage Opress simultaneously for a short while and severly injure the latter.
Kenobi on tier 5 and Mace on Tier 4 is wild man
Kenobi won against Greevous in Canon and in Legends, since they are both smart, they can inhance their phisical abilyties, so Kenobi won by his lightsaber dueling skills ... Obi Wan Kenobi > General Greevous
He was in fair saber combat disarmed by grevious however
@@TheTimberstone Kenobi disarmed Greevous literally ;)
@@filipcesnjak2944 ua-cam.com/video/Xj49nsG4ruo/v-deo.html
Obi-Wan should be in a higher tier. He beat Maul despite not having the high ground. That takes immense skill.
U can tell because in episode two and 3 Anakin Skywalker uses Form 6 when he kills the Sand people and when he kills the Sepretists on Mustafar and that lightsaber combat form is exactly the same as what Luke is using in the hallway in this video. It does however specialise in Form V as Form VI is a combination of Forms I to V specialising in a certain style.
You have to bring a video with the most powerful users of the force from the light and the darkside just like this video
These are absolutely some of the duelists of all time
true that
I'm not sure what tier he would be in but I thought Marka Ragnos would of made the cut. He was famous for his ability in physical combat.
Obi wan in tier 5? He beat everyone when it counted...
After watching the video and reading some of the comments I've gotta say everyone has some good picks tho no one is mentioning Galen Merrick. He was extremely well trained by Vader in lights Saber combat and even more aggressive when his clone was taught. I feel like he should have been an honorable mention. I know tho he used the force in combination with his light Saber when fighting. Also he's pretty much taken on armies as well.
Loved this video would be cool if you made a strictly canon version of this as well but tierlists are definitely a great addition to your collection of videos on here
Canon only list would be boring.
I can already tell you that:
Palpatine and Yoda would be at the top.
Then, Mace, all other canon sith and a couple jedi masters.
Then everyone else.
There just isn't enough feats to properly rate most characters.
Also, just to stir up a hornet's nest, how would you even place sequel characters?
They were never involved in a serious lightsaber duel with a trained lightsaber wielder.
@@gavve7105 Rey and kylo are both very strong with the force but not the best with there sabers I have a tier list but it’s overall so it’s tough to say maybe on part with sone of the inquisitors or Ezra and the top 3 are always obvious but the rest are pretty mixed
The people that are complaining about obi wan being in tier 5 while people that he could beat in duels were above him need to be reminded that this is a legends tier list, if obi wan fought legends grievous on utapau (or any of their previous encounters in the clone wars tv show) he would have died in 20 seconds, grievous in canon was literal cannon fodder that lost to kit fisto. While legends grievous could take take on several jedi masters all at once and win easily, canon grievous had to resort to dirty tricks because he was struggling against a lone padawan.
Where is StarKiller/ Gaylan Merik??? He literally almost beat Sidious and did beat Vader!
I think what people miss about Obi-Wan is that he continually displays strength in every single category. He's probably not the single best at any aspect we can choose, like duelist, living force/perception, using his environment, but he is always aware of his foe's weakness and then exploits it. He does this through patience and perception, it's an incredibly dangerous ability. I don't see how we could call anyone else, with the exception of Luke, as effective at opposing the Sith.
Kind of hard to do a tier list on something so subjective as this. I would definitely have Dooku higher though.
After watching the video and reading some of the comments I've gotta say everyone has some good picks tho no one is mentioning Galen Merrick. He was extremely well trained by Vader in lightsaber combat and even more aggressive when his clone was taught. I feel like he should have been an honorable mention. I know tho he used force in combination with his lightsaber when fighting. Also, he's pretty much taken on armies as well. I think Windu’s victory was legitimate because his style was an advantage where they were fighting as well as it being a specific style that Palpatine had little specific knowledge of. However, I’d like to see how that battle would have gone if you had given Palpatine more space to work with Yoda Obi wan is highly underrated! Think of who he beat in The Clone Wars and after. He defeated Darth Maul, General Grievous, Dark Anakin, and Vader no other Jedi order member during that time frame was as prolific against very tough opponents. Obi-Wan is always highly underrated. His intellect and connection to the force were strong and using his Saber form 3 (which he was the indisputable master of) made him seem to be always on the defensive while waiting for the moment to strike. Obi-Wan was very wise and able to use his force connection and substantial skills to his ultimate advantage against most other adversaries. I think one of the scariest Yoda moments was when he disarmed Assaj and was so confident in himself… he gave her back her light sabers lol Overall good list, but I think Dooku and Mace should be on a higher tier. Thanks for all your content! I believe Darth Traya deserves an honorable mention. her ability to duel her opponents using telekinesis to wield her blades is really cool and quite unique at that! I must only slightly correct you when it comes to Jaina and Jacen Solo's power levels - they were equals in POTENTIAL. The reason why Jacen's skills far outmatched her was because of his years-long pilgrimage where he studied nearly every single force discipline - Jedi and non-Jedi disciplines alike - until he was at LEAST proficient in them. The only one who could outmatch Jacen was Luke. This is why Jaina went to study with Boba Fett - because she needed to learn skills that Jacen did not possess. And who could teach you how to hunt and kill a Jedi better than old man Boba. That part where Boba pulls a lightsaber and totally sucker punches her taught her a valuable lesson that pretty much led to her beating Jacen. And her being Fett's "apprentice" was SICK - because he basically saw it as a long overdue vengeance for Windu killing his father AND for Jacen killing his daughter. Man, I absolutely LOVED those Legacy of the Force novels - still do. Partly because Karen Traviss pretty much laid the groundwork for everything Mandalorian - even down to creating their language. Her iteration of Boba Fett is still the best imho and should have been at least partly used to tell his story in the Book of Boba Fett. He was a BADASS Mandalore and the Mandalorians were even more like Spartans than they are now. I’m really glad you didn’t include Kit Fisto anywhere on this list. Anyone who never took his craft beyond form 1 was always going to be at a disadvantage against masters in my opinion, no matter how much they refined the form. Plus Sidious just plowed right through him like he wasn’t even there. I would've included Satele Shan too, placing her into tier 3 (maybe 4, but no higher than 3) as she was a prodigy but lost duels against Darth Malgus multiple times, saving herself only by her Force abilities. Also, canon Obi-Wan Kenobi should be in tier 4 or 3, since he could battle Darth Maul and Savage Opress simultaneously for a short while and severely injure the latter. Now that you've discussed Anakin from witnessing him in the recent Ahsoka episode, who is now a master of Djemso and his style as Vader without the physical limitations, what tier do you think he would be placed in? Love the video! , I was disappointed to see that the great count/Darth Tyranis wasn't really acknowledged for his lightsaber dueling As he proved himself well worthy of such great titles, especially during the Clone Wars. I was quite pleased with this list, though I would have loved to see an honorary mention of Starkiller Loved this video would be cool if you made a strictly canon version of this as well but tier lists are definitely a great addition to your collection of videos on here Only thing I disagree on is Prime Darth Vader (Knightfall Anikan). The dude was unstoppable, he shift the balance of the entire for and Galaxy in one fucking day. The ferocity and speed at which he delivered blows unto his enemies was nightmarish. He couldn’t even hold back his tears, he wasn’t just “consumed” by the dark side like other Sith Lords, he was ASSIMILATED ❤🔥‼ I’d love to see a force abilities tier list to match this duelist tier list this is probably a hot take, but I think nightfall Anakin is tier 1. it's the closest the chosen one ever got to peak strength, and he was able to defeat the entire Jedi temple. he lost to Obi-Wan because of his emotions, whereas in the Jedi temple, Anakin only felt rage, nothing else. Luke is certainly one of the Greatest of all time. He became the Greatest Jedi Master ever. He found a perfect balance within to harness all of the force. The Chosen One legacy continued in Luke and became manifested in one of THE most Powerful force users to have ever existed next week.
He [Revan] was skilled in all of them [Lightsaber forms] - he was always more of a generalist than a specialist..."
Source: Drew Karpyshyn author of The Old Republic Revan
If the logic is Bane was placed in tier 3 because he'd mastered all Lightsaber forms than anyone else who had mastered all Lightsaber forms should also be at least the same tier, this would include Revan who is said to have mastered all the knowledge the Jedi had to teach this would include Lightsaber forms and than he became a Sith and mastered Sith Lightsaber combat as well.
Revan has even been shown using different forms of Lightsaber combat.
I love revan with your explanation his ranking i can better respect your reason for putting him where you did and with kenobi it’s obvious some didn’t listen to the explanations very well
Mace is definitely a better swordsman than sidious and even beat him in the movie which GL commented that Windu was just better at swordfighting other than general power and force where Windu was also powerful but far inferior to Sidious but hey when it comes to Windu's fencing should be higher.
Windu was soo powerful..
💯 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
Facts
No, Sidious is also superior at fencing. He lost because Vapaad counters very powerful dark side users.
@@Zovereign Your comment is a contradiction. He stll lost!! To say he lost bc xyz then say he's still superior is absurd. Form VII isnt an automatic win against dark side users. You still nerd comparable skill. Unless you know more than George Lucas.
Dooku being that low is absolutely criminal. I expected him to be much higher because his whole thing was his skill and he was the 3 greatest duelist of the prequel era.
Did anyone else get goosebumps at Vaders fighting style description?
FR
Darth Vader's description was the scariest out of all of them
Ever hear about Luke's "Best trick"? It was sad and a humble flex at the same time. "The ability to kill millions all at once" referring to the people he killed on the death star and the multiple times he's bodied fleets and planets of enemies
@@TheArmyduck23😂😂 that makes no sense dude
@@M_03256 Shadows of Mindor. It was before Luke retired his commission with the New Republic
Just curious how did Porter Engle not make the list? He earned the nickname the Blade of Bardotta, was said to be one of the best duelist to ever live and was said to be a better duelist than yoda, and using the force he would even spar with his own lightsaber. There was even a quote "No one in the galaxy fights like Porter Engle. No warrior can stand against him. No one even comes close. The best there is. The best there ever was"
How can you make a tier list so controversial, and yet so brave?
a duel against yoda would be the most frustrating thing ever. Like a flea with a lightsaber.
Vader is best. Lucasfilm confirms this. I see a big problem people face when accepting this is the limitations of film technology, which is why, in the original trilogy, he looks slow and harmless.
What I like about recent depictions and possibly the only thing I like about Disney is that they do Vader justice. Vader appears to be less agile but manages to use his a lot more efficiently. Vader also appears to be more in control of his emotions and calm, and his style exhibits a calorevoyeance unlike any other duelist. His fighting style seems effortless. Like a simple parry, it looks like he is swatting a fly away. And just as quickly, he will follow it up with a counter attack.
Outside of Luke literally noone in star wars history can swap sabers with Vader, he is the greatest duelist in the franchise.
Vader is the best because he incorporates the Force heavily into his fighting. Even still he has a very clear limit, having been beaten by Luke after only slightly tapping into his anger.
@@scottb3034vader mastered all forms of lightsaber as vader
@@masonmalaguti3463 Knows? Yes. Mastered? No.
He didn't master Vaapad and he doesn't have the physical ability to have mastered Ataru. The rest he probably could have.
@@scottb3034 your right.
You missed Ray from ranking one , she didn’t even need training. She is boss at everything lmao 🤣
can you do greatest force users next?
Yess
Obi-wan at 5 is crazy and dark Anakin in 4 is what pissed me off the most lol.
Disney fans will moan at Rey’s absence, but she doesn’t belong. You’ve made a strong list!
Look buddy Disney fans aren't stupid. I think the sequel trilogy is mostly quite underrated but I certainly wouldn't put Rey anywhere near this list. All her greatest feats are in the Force and with a saber she comes across as basically an amateur throughout.
I would have put Obi-Wan in tear 4, but that’s the only thing I would have changed. Great video.
what about qui-gon he only lost to maul because of the hilt to the face which maul did out of desperation as he felt he was close to loosing the duel, and even his old master dooku was even shocked by his loss and revered him as an amazing lightsaber duellist
Yep Qui Gon is considered one of the best in the order so I suggested people don’t look at his loss to too subjective… with Jedi and Sith it’s like a football team any given Sunday
I’d love to see a force abilities tier list to match this duelist tier list
I probably would’ve liked to hear where Maul would be placed cause I think he was a pretty impressive duelist (from what I’ve observed anyway)!
Yeah I really don’t know why he didn’t put him on here Maul is literally one of the greatest Sith duelists ever
Great video SW, don’t agree with every rank, but very well made video with lots of info on the characters. Keep it up.
Mace Windu and Obi wan should have ranked at least on rank higher than they did
I honestly disagree with Obi Wan being in tier 5. I mean, the only one who actually beat him with the blade was Dooku, and that's because Dooku's form kind of counters Obi Wan's.
I understand that you based your list mostly in legends, and there Obi Wan isn't as strong as others, but he deserves to be at least in tier 3 or 4. Being based in canon, I think the only ones who may be better than Kenobi with the sword are Yoda, Palpatine, and Windu (who also should have been higher on the list).
I agree that luke is the best jedi lightsaber duelist but during empire and Rotj Vader wasn’t going all out against his son his goal was to turn him not kill him and he was conflicted as well and now canon Vader according to Disney is the best lightsaber duelist of all time
Obi Wan should be Tier 1 or Tier 2 imo
Dooku should be tier 1 or 2 tbh, the Ultimate gentlemanly swordsman Darth Lee.
Dark Side Yoda would have been the ultimate lightsaber dualist by far. Im basing this on the time Dooku talked Yoda into trying out the dark side just to experience it. Yoda glowed with the power of the dark side. It terrified Dooku as he realized nobody even Sidious had a prayer vs dark yoda. Something else we missed out on was Darth Vaders skill level in his new redesigned suit that was made to increase his skill & not limit it as with the original suit. But since he never got to wear it thats just conjecture. I think probably Luke Skywalker, Windu, Exar Kun, Darth Sidious, & Yoda would be in the top 5 but i can't decide on #1.
mace was very close to yoda as was his force sensitivity and palpatine falls in the same area, with Vapod it's clear it's why MAce won but you can see clearly he is put on his heels by sidious repeatedly. Palpatine uses darkside aided attacks to fight period because of his fragile age, vapod was throwing that back at him tenfold and you can see the difference in footwork and pacing in this fight vs yoda. That could just be production and sam jackson probably wouldn't be flipping all over the damn place but its cool to imagine the pacing was actually so slow because mace was basically taking palpatine's power and throwing it back at him.
Every time I talk about legends Luke I haaaaaaate the Disney version of him even more 😢😢😢😢
NO WAY OBI-WAN TIER 5…… That’s all I’m gone say🤦🏿♂️
Though I agree his tier should be higher. However it also had to go by physical strength and force strength plus variety in technique. He wasn't physically strong, or had any great power in the force. His one truck hit was soresu with no variation. Strictly defense with few counter attacks
Obi wan wasn't that good outside of suresu
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 that’s just not true, and that’s his main lightsaber form so of course he’s gonna be primarily good at that
Soresu leaves its practioner vulnerable to Force techniques. Dooku masterfully exploited that.
@@christophersharp2212 Not entirely true. In the last duel with Vader we saw, Obi Wan switched styles and completely overwhelmed him.
Just my opinion but I think he's actually far more skilled and powerful then most of this list when hes pissed or motivated.
Obi Wan fanboy here, but he should be up there. Beat Darth Vader before he got wrecked(by Obi), beat Grievous, beat D Maul, became one with the force
S tier
Okay, Obi Wans placement is criminal. Wisdom and Wit is clearly a lightsaber skill.
Hes also on a completely different level in the most tensed situations. Probably able to solo all of Tier 4 if he knows the fate of everything relies on him.
Another one is Windu, GL confirmed he beat Sidious fair and Square.
Just because A. Beats B. And B. Beats C. Doesn't mean A. Beats C. Fights are random and circumstantial, Obi wan Caught Maul Offguard after being outclassed by him untill that moment, he shot Grievous after being overwhelmed by him at times, and he beat a young Anakin he's known his whole life at the moment of his greatest emotional turmoil being able to read him like a book, all impressive feats and more he deserves credit for but it hardly makes him a prodigy on the level of other above him, look at his Dooku fights, in a fair fight against an opponent who couldn't be tricked and had no emotions involved he was soundly defeated twice, meanwhile Anakin lasted longer as a 19 year old Padawan and beat the man straight up by age 24. Btw I'm ignoring Disney Canon it's mostly bad fanfiction
@@paigeguerin2607 but A beats B means A beats B. Case in point Obi-wan beat Grievous, what the hack of the reversed tier order?
@@simon0yeung and Grievous beat many other masters, losing to one doesn't discredit the wins,Larry Holmes beat Muhammad Ali it doesn't make him the better fighter
@@paigeguerin2607 Sure, you can put other masters who lose to Grievous below him. No problem, but we are talking A vs B right? so if A beats be, it can't be A < B.
@@simon0yeung omg you're thick, listen again Muhammad Ali is considered the best heavyweight boxer,he lost to Larry Holmes, people don't rank Holmes higher just because he beat Ali, Grievous lost to Obiwan doesn't make Obiwan overall the better fighter...he also won by shooting him not straight up besting him.
I have to say I'm glad my top 5 fav characters made the list so I'm chill lol
I would have included ahsoka into at least tier five category. She easily handled several inquisitors and held her own for a while against Darth Vader
Ashoka also was disarmed by Maul, inquisitors are actually garbage and not meant to fight actual Jedi, they are more so the hound dogs who sniff out the prey for the true hunter, Vader. Everyone on this list is better than Ashoka, while she did get a hit on Vader, it was a surprise attack and she did end up loosing.
@@southernlegends8594 honestly I disagree because we have only seen like 4 people actually last in a lengthy duel I think that definitely puts her in tier 5
Against Vader*
@@elijahmcclung3357 In reality she should have had no shot but she did because Filoni was the showrunner of Rebels and will do anything to protect her and raise her up. It's almost pathological what he will do to keep her alive AND increase her importance/feats.
@@scottb3034 this logic is just bad, she was literally trained by the strongest Jedi to live, along with learning lessons from obi-wan, and yoda. No do I think she could beat Vader, absolutely not, but to say that the only reason she even lasted with him is because filoni is just wrong, she is one of the very few characters that we’ve seen grow from Padawan to master(yes I know she is not a Jedi but still at the skill level of a master) so you have seen how strong she has been you just don’t want to believe that anyone other than obi-wan can fight Vader
Disrespect to Obi Wan is absolutely disgusting
Exar Kun is far more powerful than it was shortly explained and heeded here. Jensaarai One explaining Exar as well as 100% Star Wars story telling about this character reveal in-depth information why he most definitely would belong in Tier 1. Lightsaber techniques have not been fully developed yet in the time of Tulak and we do not know how strong he was in the Force to have utilised and implemented it in his lightsaber fighting. Plo was able to defeat Yoda who is in your Tier 5, while Yoda is in Tier 2; so if every information about Exar would be considered deeply, especially how he has implemented the Force like Force Rage (which he perfected) combined with his un-orthodox fighting style as well as his un-orthodox lightsaber (which was unique in many ways), it is save to say that he is definitely a Tier 1 candidate.
Kun had two serious duels in his entire life. One was against Qel Droma which was a draw (that sources state could have gone on for hours). Qel Droma was good, but far from some crazy master duelist. Second was against Vodo Baas, who arguably had the advantage over Kun at the beginning of the fight before Kun ignited the second blade and basically only won due to using an extremely unorthodox lightsaber. Kun even asks Vodo if he "likes the modifications" he made to his lightsaber, was very clearly playing up his advantage. Kun is overrated as a duelist. Not even worth tier 2 to be honest.
@@yggunshot8402 ua-cam.com/video/FvKE3uRBOjE/v-deo.html was this
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 I don't watch dumb videos. But I can tell it is clearly bullshit scaling that makes no sense. "Tanking supernovas" no character in tales of the jedi tanks supernovas. Anyone who is ever caught in one is killed. Kun was never anywhere near a supernova, he and Ulic tricked Aleema Keto into creating one. The only totj character surviving anything related to a supernova is Ood bnar who survives the shockwaves of a supernova by essentially becoming an extension of the entire planet of ossus (since he comes from a tree species) but other than that nobody in totj tanks anything like that. Kun is nowhere near Ood Bnar in his planetary tree form and literally got blasted when he so much as tried to touch Ood. You are pretty stupid for thinking any sw character has supernova level durability. Also, earlier in the comic Kun literally has every bone broken in his body when Nadd collapses a couple of rocks on him. Loool supernova durability my ass. And more than anything if Exar Kun actually scaled above tanking supernovas a lightsaber wouldn't be any threat to him at all. In face, he would be completely physically indestructible 💀.
If I am not mistaken, I belive Sidius's and Mace Windu's battle is described in the "Revenge of the Sith" novel. Both of them felt Anakin approaching. Windu was hoping he would have Anakin's support, but Sidius's 'promise' of teaching Anakin how to save Padmé got to him. The rest we know.
This list is just frustrating. A couple big ones for me....
1) Obi Wan is, by far, one of the most accomplished duelists the Jedi have ever had. We can't just write him off as low-tier simply because of the hype afforded to the likes of Old Republic and Ancient sith or jedi. Without making this a paragraph, rest assured... Obi Wan should be in Tier 2 or 3 at least.
2) Dooku is a phenomenal duelist and has seriously impressive feats. He managed to hold his own against Yoda on multiple occasions, and did it well enough that Yoda simply accepted that he couldn't kill him outright. Yoda is the stronger lightsaber duelist but he's not so far beyond Dooku that Dooku wasn't a threat, or couldn't find a way to exploit Yoda's morality to secure an advantage, or escape.
3) Mace Windu created an entirely novel lightsaber form. He is essentially the Anti-Sith that never got a chance to demonstrate his full potential. There's still intense debate surrounding whether Sidious was actually losing to Mace or if he was sandbagging him in order to manipulate Anakin, or some mixture of the two. Either way, there's no Sith of his era that could threaten him aside from Sidious himself. Grievous was the only real threat due to him not actually using the Force to fight, thus circumventing the true power of Vapaad.
4) You included Jacen and Jaina but not Anakin Solo... you know, the kid who went out in such a blaze of glory fighting the Yuuzhan Vong that they literally deified him and worshipped him as a warrior god. Not only that... Anakin was so in tune with his lightsaber craftsmanship that he was able to utilize an entirely original Lambent crystal. The connection he had with his blade and the Lambent crystal allowed Anakin to sense the Yuuzhan Vong in the Force - something no other Jedi could do, including GM Luke Skywalker. Anakin Solo would most likely have gone on to become more powerful than Jacen or Jaina, but at the time of his death he was DEFINITELY the stronger of the three in terms of lightsaber combat.
5) Too much emphasis on ancient sith and jedi that we don't have enough information on. Tulak Hord was basically just a crutch for the KOTOR story... it's debatable if any of the legends surrounding him are legitimate at all. Kreiya herself is not exactly a trustworthy source of information, as she's manipulating circumstances from beginning to end anyway. I can't understand why you would go all in on Tulak Hord sharing the top spot with GM Luke but you didn't include the likes of Anoon Bondara, Darth Maul, Ahsoka Tano, Galen Marek, Corran Horn, Kyp Duron, even T'ra Saa... There are WAY better options with MUCH more lore and confirmed feats than someone like Tulak Hord and even Darth Krayt.
Y’all making obi wan sound like he was disrespected while it was a great on honor he was even on the list. With 10,000 years of history and 10,000 force users that have existed in the dw universe the fact he makes the top 20 is an honor
I really think Ahsoka should be on this list. She was able to hold her own against Anakin and Obi-wan, defeated Maul in the first half of their duel and out smarted him in the second half. She was able to destroy half of Vaders mask and managed to battle him and hold her own a feat very few have ever been able to do. Killing multiple inquisitors.
I think her and maul could definitely go into tier 5 but this is mainly legends continuity so that puts Ahsoka at a huge disadvantage since legends feats are for the most part much stronger than canon feats
She isn't close to being among the best of the best besides Filoni irrationally protecting his pet creation.
@@scottb3034 I swear people take producers and directors words for everything instead of actually thinking for themselves.
@@eeurr1306 Well sometimes you have to since they are in control of the content and characters....but when it comes to their OPINION on things then yeah it gets taken too far and unthinkingly.
Mostly all solid points; these are especially hard when ya gotta rank stuff. One of your best videos
This may be one of the worst tier lists I’ve ever seen
Crybaby 😂
Why?
This is awesome! I'd love to see more videos like this
Dooku and vader should definetily be tier 1
You know these are the best of the best when Kenobi is in last place.
Luke most certainly did overcome Vader on the second death star, but if we were dealing with Vader at a point where he wasn't second guessing his attacks on his son, wasn't so old, and wasn't attempting to leave him alive, Luke would've been slaughtered
I know I’m late, but dang dooood, did Old Ben dirty 😂
“We will not be including force powers”
“They said Palpatine was so fast you couldn’t see him utilizing force speed”
“…..Outside the confines of physical augmentation”
please do more of these i find myself enjoying them
I genuinely don't understand why Kun is ranked so high. He has only been in like, two serious duels. One of them was with Ulic Qel Droma who stalemated him. The other was Vodo siosk Baas and it was not a one sided fight at all. Based on what I read in tales of the jedi, Vodo isn't much better than any random saber specialist in star wars history. Kun really isn't that good.
Because he mastered all 7 lightsaber forms at a very young age resolutionate Niman to it highest degree, he mastered lightsaber skills from tulak hord kind adas and many other jedi exiled he also recreate his lightsaber staff with ancient technology, was UnStoppable in one on one lightsaber duels because he of how unpredictable he was powerful extremely fast and precise also when he fought ulic he wasn't the sith lord yet and he hadn't found the dark holocrom yet which contained teaching from tulak hord, also he completely overwhelmed a luke Skywalker who was trained by yoda obi wan and emperor papaltine reborn, luke even learned some skills from exar kun
You clearly don't know much about exar kun
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 Nowhere is it ever stated that he mastered all 7 forms. That is blatantly false. Tulak Hord, King Adas? Those guys lived thousands of years before Kun and he did not master anything from them. Only person who trained Kun in saber combat was Vodo Baas. He was pretty much already a sith lord when he fought Ulic since he had finished his training under Nadd. He just hadn't been declared a dark lord/leader. And according to the comic, Vodo was actually winning the rematch before Kun started using two blades. If Kun didn't have the advantage of using a double bladed lightsaber in an era where they were unknown, Vodo would have won the fight. Kun didn't overwhelm Luke in saber combat. He overwhelmed him through, and with Kyp using the force. If anything, you don't know much about Exar Kun. I suggest you read tales of the jedi.
@@yggunshot8402 🤡 do your research he stole acknowledge from the ancient sith lords that's he became UnStoppable in lightsaber combat, you just hating 😆 🤣 😂 and I have tales of the jedi he did defeated luke in lightsaber combat, you clearly haven't read jedi academy 🤡
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 You definitely haven't read totj lol. You have zero clue what you are talking about. And no, he didn't defeat Luke in saber combat. I haven't read jedi academy but I have seen debates and quotes. He defeated Luke through the force via Kyp Durron. Nothing to do with saber skills.
Windu did not "defeat" Sidious. Sidious needed to force Anakin jnto a moment or crisis. So he allowed Windu to smack the saber out of his hand. He could have killed him at any time and thats what he did.
Fact: Windu was no match for the Dark Lord. 9:17
I’m glad to see sha gee being mentioned
Unpopular opinion:
Count Dooku being in Tier 4 is definitely incorrect for me. If we're talking pure 'lightsaber duelling' than I think there's an argument Dooku is one of the best to ever do it. You breezed over him without acknowledging any of his feats. He was a prodigy Jedi for 70 years, and teacher of Jedi Knights. His combat lessons against Yoda were said to be unbelievable, and he was known to best Mace Windu in sparring. Even at the age of 80+ he was able to regularly best Obi-wan & Anakin at the same time, on multiple occasions. And even after defeating the duo he was able to fight Yoda on even ground, after being fatigued. He his the most specialized Jedi/Sith (Perhaps ever) to study Makashi and perfect it to its highest level. And that is the most specialized 'lightsaber duelling' form out of all seven. I believe he's actually a better duellist than his own master, Sidious, since he's got legit Jedi academic training, 70 years of mission deployments and combat experience, and a more specialized duelling style, and that is what this list is about.
Dooku is sorely misplaced on this list and I believe his proper ranking should be above Vader but under Yoda.
How is he above Vader When Vader gave him a good fight at 19 and defeated him outright by the age of 24?
@@paigeguerin2607 Dooku literally beat Anakin on ever occasion (90% of the time fighting Obi-wan too) bar one. And if you knew anything about Star wars you'd know Sidious told Dooku to let Anakin live during their final encounter. Thats why Dooku easily dispatched Obi-Wan, but let the fight drag out with Anakin. I believe Anakin did legit overpower Dooku at the end, but only after Dooku drew out Anakins rage and let the fight drag on. Not to mention Dooku was at the end of his life (age wise) and Anakin was in his prime, and the fight started off as a 1v2.
@@wallywest9257 wrong also Anakin was nowhere close to his prime he was 24, he beat him because he was better, a sith Lord doesn't just let someone best him.your opinions don't matter only George Lucas original intentions
@@paigeguerin2607 Bro, even if you want to believe Anakin legit defeated Dooku, the duel started off as a 1v2... How is that a fair fight? And Dooku was 80+ y.o, hardly a prime Dooku lol.
@@wallywest9257 sorry you're wrong
Totally agree with the rankings 👍
There was one key mistake here. Not debating luke is the best because canonically he is. But when he held his own against vader, both times vader was not fighting to kill and thus vader was holding himself back.