If they are forcing you to pay this NASTF all this money, it is a scam, who the hell are they anyway? Right to repair violation here. Worried about stolen tools? What ever happened to password protection? Complain to the tool companies...WTF....!!
You know... shutting down a car remotely would solve a lot more issues than any of this. Use GPS to keep tabs on where the vehicle is, and shut it down when cops arrive on the scene. Done deal. Then criminals get word that they are screwed if they steal the vehicle to start with. Guess what? They stop wasting their time and risking their freedom.
oh you mean that feature that already exists ? As for criminals risking their freedom do you live in the U.S. or Canada ? they are back out in 2 hours to do it again... Maybe if we started with putting criminals in jail we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Its been past the 45-60 days since they threatened everyone with locking them out and still nothing has happened. I'm a locksmith that owns my own business and I do have a NASTF account but at this point, I'm not even sure what's going on. Kind of sounds like everything fell apart according to their plan in the beginning.
If the judicial system worked we wouldn't have this problem! That's what this new program will do is force people to go to the dealer. A million dollar insurance policy is asinine!
I see all of these video's but nobody covers why we are here and what the real problem is here. Push to start vehicles . Go back to a steel key with immo . Problem solved , instead we embrace a problem the vehicle manufactures have created . Let face it , it sells more vehicles .
100% Agree.....Bring the Blade Back!....No One drives off w/o turning that key!(Towing Not included).....takes All the High-Tech thieves out of the equation until the key gets Turned and the Chip is Authorized......"F" PTS!
Keith is all for it which pisses me off. He should be standing against it!! What if I want to fix my vehicle that I paid for? It's my car. It's called the Right to Repair! This isn't voluntary at all! So I have to have a million dollar insurance policy to fix my own car? Come on Keith you can do better than this! Stop punishing the innocent people!
Loved your closing statements. Hard to follow the technical side of this for me but it sounded like you said that some of these chips are becoming so difficult to reverse engineer, that it's better for the scan tool manufacturers to purchase this data? And it comes from ETI? In your main point against this, you think this will lead to more car jackings? That's a societal thing. Don't you think they'll just find easier targets?
Currently the only thing coming from ETI is normal non immo stuff. Like your pids and some functions. Also autoauth would be regulated thru that program Everything they are looking to restrict access to in the key tools is all reverse engineered functions. My THEORY is the OEMs may begin supplying IMMO functions or even server access to the aftermarket tool manufactures. In exchange for locking down the tools. This would explain the trade off as advanced encryption is making it harder and harder for some algorithms to be reverse engineered. I tried my best to explain this in the video the best I could but it’s a complex subject and I didn’t want a 4hr video I’ll be covering a lot of stuff like this in my 8hr class at ASTA Expo if your coming this year make sure to drop in.
Also yes I believe it will result in more car jackings and home evasions. The dodge cars are so desirable because the platforms are like legos. Buy a 2015 or newer wrecked v6 charger (ironically alot are retired police cruisers) if it’s a clean title wreck it requires no theft inspection afterwards nor proof of part purchases. Then you go out and steal a scat pack or hellcat. Swap all the parts over and just like that you’ve got a hellcat. Ever car that hits the insurance auction should be branded title and a lot of theft would stop there.
Yes and no... The biggest blame is the tool distributors selling the scan tools to anyone who has the money to buy it no questions asked. Ebay, Amazon, Alibaba, aliexpress etc.. Anyone of those stores has an IM608 or Xtool that is fully capable of stealing with. The next problem you have brewing that I havent seen talked much about it the lishi picks being sold in that same manner. In America, all a criminal needs are the Kwikset and Schlage lishi, so a would-be criminal can open your front door and search out your home for the SRT Keys. Locking the scan tools is a desperate fix for what scantool makers and vendors have created by selling to anyone. Period! At one time in the past I had to upload my business license and the secretary of state good standing to buy picks, programmers and cutters.
Just got locked out this week even to do rear brake job on a 2020 hyundai. Have to get license and also certain makes we will have to pay a fee to access each vehicle to enter that system at around 50.00 per vehicle. This just cost shop for just one scan tool nearly 2500.00 for updates and extras for out maxisys ultra tool
For anyone interested in STX (Supplier & Training Expo it will be in Nashville, TN at the Gaylord Opryland Convention Center, April 24 - 28, 2024. NASTF Meeting will be on Wednesday, April 24, 2024 time of meeting is to be announced, so far they are saying it will be in the early afternoon.
Why do they need social security number and w2 to register with them my aloha membership and locksmith license should be enough im not registering my self and i made no agreement with anyone
Omg, you read my mind. Unfortunately, I tried getting a vsp and complied, but I'm unable to get insurance to satisfy NASTF. I do a lot of bench programming. So my tools will stop working on the bench too, then I'm ou 27:54 and check me out and then give me access to keep doing my work.i have nothing to hide but Unfortunately can't provide all the information nastf wants to sign up to get vsp. So that makes me turn to other non complying tools to do my job and nastf will never know what I do. Tools should have a 24 hour line to lock the tools for ever if it gets stolen.
Why was nastf not satisfied with your insurance. I'm curious because I got a million dollar insurance liability policy. I don't wanna change my insurance plan when I sign up. What more are they asking for?
@segounlocks5029 I made a mistake there. I'm having a hard time getting insurance because I'm a part-time worker, and when I mention what I do and it's part-time, they probably think im one of those thieves lmao 🤣 😂 😅 😆. I am going to wait this out, and depending on the outcome, instead of paying for the yearly subscription on my tools, I'll let that expire and invest in non participating tools. Nastf doesn't want to accept anybody without a 1m insurance, so that's my take. 90% of my work is bench work on damaged modules or clonning, and if I can't finish the process myself anymore and have to call a locksmith, then why carry these tools. Wonder how many shops don't know about this and bam one update, and they will be scrambling for answers.
Dude, what would you rather, getting a VSP or getting the government involved in producing legislation? The OEs aren’t going to allow just anyone in the theft side of things. NASTF is the go between us in the aftermarket and the OEs. FYI, part of the VSP program will be entering your credentials in your scan tool.
Thank you very much for the insights into what is going on in the industry🙏. But are these new rules you talk about going only to the US market or the global market will be affected?
I am concerned about having to replace an ECU module, though unable to write the vin# or reset the immo. In regard to vehicle theft, OE companies can do other things to prevent vehicle theft.
heyooo. reverse engineered all nissan ecu pids on nights and weekends over the course of about 5 days lol. all because i couldn't afford to purchase it directly..
So if this leads to more info being provided by the OE for the aftermarket scan tools, why is this a bad thing? Especially if it is getting harder and harder to reverse engineer this stuff. Seems to me this is all just the price to play ball.
That is merely a speculation I made. I do not know if there will be access to these newer immo systems shared or not. I’d hope if they are giving up market share they are receiving something valuable in return. But they were told AutoAuth access would be conditional on participation. Not allowing aftermarket access via OBD connection I feel is unfair. But I’m sure this is allowed in the current legislation. Your comment seems like “standing in the way of progress” but as soon as we police the aftermarket we will truly kill innovation outside of the OEMs and they have a history of not always complying.
You all are forgetting the primary role of the "Right to Repair," how NASTF came to be, and what its purpose and intention were. Nastf made the bridge for manufacture and independent service shops. The VSP section was a totally separate department aimed at vetting individuals deemed as locksmiths to be able to access the SDRM for the release of keycodes and pin codes. Each D-1 event would trigger a collection of information and was logged as an event that was tethered to an entity and vin# Today, you still have franchise dealers handing out keycodes to their independent service shops and even to anyone who walks to the parts counter and asks for one by vin. Although most of the manufacturers have their franchise dealers under control, there are still franchise dealers operating, just as I've explained. The moral of this quagmire is; scan Tool manufactures, and tool distributors selling these tools to any unvetted individual because they want sales of their products. If Paul Danner has a scan tool that serves as an IMMO tool and he doesn't have the necessary VSP status credentials, then he is in possession of criminal tools. I blame the tool vendors for this! I had to upload all sorts of information to Advanced Diagnostics tool vendor for me to buy an MVP PRO years ago.
@@jacobnbr11I've been an automotive locksmith since the 80's. Back then you had to submit proof you were a locksmith maybe an ALOA number etc etc. Places like UHS showed up and sells to anyone. I happen to be local to them. One of my guys happened to be there picking up supplies (I only use them in emergency situations) and overheard another locksmith talking to his customer about his ignition he just picked up. The customer told him "I just need you to install it I already went to UHS and bought it myself". This is going to weed out the Chucks In a truck that make crappy aftermarket keys and fobs for $100. I don't compete with them because anyone that would use someone like that I wouldn't want for a customer. We already belong to NASTF. We don't Lishi as we are busy all day. If we can't get code easily we buy them. It makes sense for us. We also based on experience try to use OEM fobs as we have 0 comebacks with them. I price on the higher end but also give a warranty and great service. Some customers only care about price. I turn those people away. As I type this on Monday 10:55am we already have 5 calls. I realize not everyone has anywhere close to the volume I do but the hacks don't do anyone a favor. I always say we don't pay for updates, tokens, better fobs, key codes my customers do. I'm not afraid to charge our worth. Just like business's don't pay taxes we the customers do.
It is a bad thing and all about money! It starts with this and ends up taking a life of its own! Before you know it our scanners we got thousands in are worthless unless we end up paying some company yearly. This is like big government promoted by democrats, tax the little man to death and before you know it we are all out of business!
we need to stop the fascisation of the game, the car owner has a right to repair and modify his car anyway he wants, including the choice of the level of security you are worrying too much about the crims, they will break the glass or lift the car, let the police do their job paradoxically chinese cheapos are already democratising the game making everything easier and cheaper
That's a very powerful line "just know the dealer feels the same about you" Thanks for sharing!
If they are forcing you to pay this NASTF all this money, it is a scam, who the hell are they anyway?
Right to repair violation here. Worried about stolen tools? What ever happened to password protection?
Complain to the tool companies...WTF....!!
You know... shutting down a car remotely would solve a lot more issues than any of this. Use GPS to keep tabs on where the vehicle is, and shut it down when cops arrive on the scene. Done deal. Then criminals get word that they are screwed if they steal the vehicle to start with. Guess what? They stop wasting their time and risking their freedom.
oh you mean that feature that already exists ? As for criminals risking their freedom do you live in the U.S. or Canada ? they are back out in 2 hours to do it again... Maybe if we started with putting criminals in jail we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Your message is on a whole new level, like my favorite saying "Never sell out humanity for patriotism" thank you sir.
Its been past the 45-60 days since they threatened everyone with locking them out and still nothing has happened. I'm a locksmith that owns my own business and I do have a NASTF account but at this point, I'm not even sure what's going on. Kind of sounds like everything fell apart according to their plan in the beginning.
If the judicial system worked we wouldn't have this problem! That's what this new program will do is force people to go to the dealer. A million dollar insurance policy is asinine!
I see all of these video's but nobody covers why we are here and what the real problem is here. Push to start vehicles . Go back to a steel key with immo . Problem solved , instead we embrace a problem the vehicle manufactures have created . Let face it , it sells more vehicles .
100% Agree.....Bring the Blade Back!....No One drives off w/o turning that key!(Towing Not included).....takes All the High-Tech thieves out of the equation until the key gets Turned and the Chip is Authorized......"F" PTS!
Amen, I agree 200%
Keith is all for it which pisses me off. He should be standing against it!! What if I want to fix my vehicle that I paid for? It's my car. It's called the Right to Repair! This isn't voluntary at all! So I have to have a million dollar insurance policy to fix my own car? Come on Keith you can do better than this! Stop punishing the innocent people!
Why bother catching bad peoples if no one will prosecute them?
Uhoh, it looks like NASTF got invited to Bohemian Grove 😂
Well you earned my subscription. Some of the “non-hacks” lost it with the nonsense they spewed.
Great informative video thank you!
Loved your closing statements. Hard to follow the technical side of this for me but it sounded like you said that some of these chips are becoming so difficult to reverse engineer, that it's better for the scan tool manufacturers to purchase this data? And it comes from ETI?
In your main point against this, you think this will lead to more car jackings? That's a societal thing. Don't you think they'll just find easier targets?
Currently the only thing coming from ETI is normal non immo stuff. Like your pids and some functions. Also autoauth would be regulated thru that program
Everything they are looking to restrict access to in the key tools is all reverse engineered functions.
My THEORY is the OEMs may begin supplying IMMO functions or even server access to the aftermarket tool manufactures. In exchange for locking down the tools. This would explain the trade off as advanced encryption is making it harder and harder for some algorithms to be reverse engineered.
I tried my best to explain this in the video the best I could but it’s a complex subject and I didn’t want a 4hr video
I’ll be covering a lot of stuff like this in my 8hr class at ASTA Expo if your coming this year make sure to drop in.
Also yes I believe it will result in more car jackings and home evasions.
The dodge cars are so desirable because the platforms are like legos. Buy a 2015 or newer wrecked v6 charger (ironically alot are retired police cruisers) if it’s a clean title wreck it requires no theft inspection afterwards nor proof of part purchases. Then you go out and steal a scat pack or hellcat. Swap all the parts over and just like that you’ve got a hellcat.
Ever car that hits the insurance auction should be branded title and a lot of theft would stop there.
Sounds like Obamacare!
Yes and no... The biggest blame is the tool distributors selling the scan tools to anyone who has the money to buy it no questions asked. Ebay, Amazon, Alibaba, aliexpress etc.. Anyone of those stores has an IM608 or Xtool that is fully capable of stealing with. The next problem you have brewing that I havent seen talked much about it the lishi picks being sold in that same manner. In America, all a criminal needs are the Kwikset and Schlage lishi, so a would-be criminal can open your front door and search out your home for the SRT Keys. Locking the scan tools is a desperate fix for what scantool makers and vendors have created by selling to anyone. Period! At one time in the past I had to upload my business license and the secretary of state good standing to buy picks, programmers and cutters.
Good point!
@geraldskinner63 I think it should be all locked down! What's the purpose in security if it can be easily circumvented with money? It makes no sense.
@@steps9040 That is an interesting idea. I get the trade secrets but never considered 230.
Just got locked out this week even to do rear brake job on a 2020 hyundai. Have to get license and also certain makes we will have to pay a fee to access each vehicle to enter that system at around 50.00 per vehicle. This just cost shop for just one scan tool nearly 2500.00 for updates and extras for out maxisys ultra tool
For anyone interested in STX (Supplier & Training Expo it will be in Nashville, TN at the Gaylord Opryland Convention Center, April 24 - 28, 2024. NASTF Meeting will be on Wednesday, April 24, 2024 time of meeting is to be announced, so far they are saying it will be in the early afternoon.
Why do they need social security number and w2 to register with them my aloha membership and locksmith license should be enough im not registering my self and i made no agreement with anyone
Omg, you read my mind. Unfortunately, I tried getting a vsp and complied, but I'm unable to get insurance to satisfy NASTF. I do a lot of bench programming. So my tools will stop working on the bench too, then I'm ou 27:54 and check me out and then give me access to keep doing my work.i have nothing to hide but Unfortunately can't provide all the information nastf wants to sign up to get vsp. So that makes me turn to other non complying tools to do my job and nastf will never know what I do. Tools should have a 24 hour line to lock the tools for ever if it gets stolen.
Why was nastf not satisfied with your insurance. I'm curious because I got a million dollar insurance liability policy. I don't wanna change my insurance plan when I sign up. What more are they asking for?
@segounlocks5029 I made a mistake there. I'm having a hard time getting insurance because I'm a part-time worker, and when I mention what I do and it's part-time, they probably think im one of those thieves lmao 🤣 😂 😅 😆. I am going to wait this out, and depending on the outcome, instead of paying for the yearly subscription on my tools, I'll let that expire and invest in non participating tools. Nastf doesn't want to accept anybody without a 1m insurance, so that's my take. 90% of my work is bench work on damaged modules or clonning, and if I can't finish the process myself anymore and have to call a locksmith, then why carry these tools. Wonder how many shops don't know about this and bam one update, and they will be scrambling for answers.
Dude, what would you rather, getting a VSP or getting the government involved in producing legislation? The OEs aren’t going to allow just anyone in the theft side of things. NASTF is the go between us in the aftermarket and the OEs.
FYI, part of the VSP program will be entering your credentials in your scan tool.
Thank you very much for the insights into what is going on in the industry🙏. But are these new rules you talk about going only to the US market or the global market will be affected?
Interesting viewpoint 👍👍👍
I am concerned about having to replace an ECU module, though unable to write the vin# or reset the immo. In regard to vehicle theft, OE companies can do other things to prevent vehicle theft.
heyooo.
reverse engineered all nissan ecu pids on nights and weekends over the course of about 5 days lol.
all because i couldn't afford to purchase it directly..
If I have to authenticate they better bypass the ford and GM 10 minute wait 😢
Good video
So if this leads to more info being provided by the OE for the aftermarket scan tools, why is this a bad thing?
Especially if it is getting harder and harder to reverse engineer this stuff. Seems to me this is all just the price to play ball.
That is merely a speculation I made. I do not know if there will be access to these newer immo systems shared or not. I’d hope if they are giving up market share they are receiving something valuable in return. But they were told AutoAuth access would be conditional on participation.
Not allowing aftermarket access via OBD connection I feel is unfair. But I’m sure this is allowed in the current legislation.
Your comment seems like “standing in the way of progress” but as soon as we police the aftermarket we will truly kill innovation outside of the OEMs and they have a history of not always complying.
You all are forgetting the primary role of the "Right to Repair," how NASTF came to be, and what its purpose and intention were. Nastf made the bridge for manufacture and independent service shops. The VSP section was a totally separate department aimed at vetting individuals deemed as locksmiths to be able to access the SDRM for the release of keycodes and pin codes. Each D-1 event would trigger a collection of information and was logged as an event that was tethered to an entity and vin# Today, you still have franchise dealers handing out keycodes to their independent service shops and even to anyone who walks to the parts counter and asks for one by vin. Although most of the manufacturers have their franchise dealers under control, there are still franchise dealers operating, just as I've explained. The moral of this quagmire is; scan Tool manufactures, and tool distributors selling these tools to any unvetted individual because they want sales of their products. If Paul Danner has a scan tool that serves as an IMMO tool and he doesn't have the necessary VSP status credentials, then he is in possession of criminal tools. I blame the tool vendors for this! I had to upload all sorts of information to Advanced Diagnostics tool vendor for me to buy an MVP PRO years ago.
@@jacobnbr11I've been an automotive locksmith since the 80's. Back then you had to submit proof you were a locksmith maybe an ALOA number etc etc. Places like UHS showed up and sells to anyone. I happen to be local to them. One of my guys happened to be there picking up supplies (I only use them in emergency situations) and overheard another locksmith talking to his customer about his ignition he just picked up. The customer told him "I just need you to install it I already went to UHS and bought it myself". This is going to weed out the Chucks In a truck that make crappy aftermarket keys and fobs for $100. I don't compete with them because anyone that would use someone like that I wouldn't want for a customer. We already belong to NASTF. We don't Lishi as we are busy all day. If we can't get code easily we buy them. It makes sense for us. We also based on experience try to use OEM fobs as we have 0 comebacks with them. I price on the higher end but also give a warranty and great service. Some customers only care about price. I turn those people away. As I type this on Monday 10:55am we already have 5 calls. I realize not everyone has anywhere close to the volume I do but the hacks don't do anyone a favor. I always say we don't pay for updates, tokens, better fobs, key codes my customers do. I'm not afraid to charge our worth. Just like business's don't pay taxes we the customers do.
It is a bad thing and all about money! It starts with this and ends up taking a life of its own! Before you know it our scanners we got thousands in are worthless unless we end up paying some company yearly. This is like big government promoted by democrats, tax the little man to death and before you know it we are all out of business!
Great information and alot of valid points made.
I have a small auto repair shop and i am trying to find cheap insurance. Got a couple of quotes 2500 a year. Looking for something about half of that.
👍👍👍
Bro the fucking thumbnail 😂
Lol you're a trip
If I want your car I would show up truck with a lift
LSID the same as VSP or do I need to get a VSP??
One in the same
Your glasses are making your eyes look a lot smaller than they actually are.
Bahahaha my glasses are stupid thick I can’t even navigate the house without them.
😂Hack
we need to stop the fascisation of the game,
the car owner has a right to repair and modify his car anyway he wants,
including the choice of the level of security
you are worrying too much about the crims,
they will break the glass or lift the car,
let the police do their job
paradoxically chinese cheapos are already democratising the game
making everything easier and cheaper