DYERS EVE Timing Finally Makes Sense!
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- . **NOT THE 2,3,2,3.....2,2,2,2 DEBATE** ;) There's a video of James saying it's all 2's so that debate is over for me. This is about the timing of the main riff. Very difficult for me but now it makes sense. Have fun.
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2:07 If Dyer’s Eve was on Youthanasia lmao
This comment is dead on! haha
hell yeah, and it sounds brilliant
Lol it does sound like Reckoning Day
It's weird how we all hear these things differently. I had no idea what you were even talking about for most of the video. I've never heard any perceived shift in timing or anything like that. Just straight off-beat rhythm. Then there are things that still throw me off that others have no issue with - like the timing in "Blackened" where it goes back to the main riff after the breakdown. Still keep messing that part up after all those years...
Same here
Yeah I literally never heard anything confusing about the beat either
Same here, I clicked on this video not knowing what could possibly be confusing about the timing of Dyers Eve. It's just a standard thrash/punk beat, it starts straight on "1" multiple times and the only possible thing that could throw you off (I guess) are the accents on the crash cymbal here and there... If there is any tricky song it's Fight Fire With Fire - for years the verse riff was kind of shifting on me because of the super strong accents and where the vocals are placed. But this and Blackened - no issue whatsoever and any alternative way of perceiving it never crossed my mind.
@@gergonikk Yea... until I learned Blackened on guitar I had always heard the riff wrong, then when I realized that the riff starts earlier than i realized, I couldn't hear it the way I did before. Like, ever again. Yea,, the riff after the solo kinda does that, but it doesn't confuse me, because the guitar riff doesn't change. The drums do.
Yeah that part fucks with your brain all because Lars added an extra 1/8th note. If playing guitar, you really need to just try to totally tune the drums out of your ears and focus on playing the exact same riff in guitar because that’s what it is, it never changes. And if playing drums you add an extra 1/8 note in the full and end up off beat. But yeah you need to practice it a lot and on guitar you really have to just focus on what you’re playing and resist the urge to fall back in with the drums on the switch up because it’s the drums that change not the guitar
That slowed down Dyers Eve sounds like something straight out of Master of Puppets
Sounds awesome, doesn't it?
Might have been at some point. Most of the riffs are from the early days
Sounded like megadeth to me
@@coscwyite yeah I honestly thought of megadeth too
Almost sounded better.... Is that ok to publicly admit?... jk guys, jk.....
This and the Blackened video absolutely blow my mind
James and Lars, what great songwriters!
And now he doesnt want to make songs with lars anymore
I played air drums to this tune for hours - even made half of a 90-minute tape with this tune over and over and over in 1989, when I was living with at home after my freshman year of college. I swore that when I was a Dad, my children would never be able to write a tune about me as their father with the same venom Hetfield did. Many hear the lyrics and think that its lyrics are so nasty whereas I am energized and inspired to be a Dad, if that makes sense.
Thanks for the insight.
The slow version with the straight beat actually sounds fucking sick though, I'd definitely listen to a full version like that
you're lying
Man, that RIFF is so good, no matter the tempo. So badass!
The guitar tone is amazing!
Your channel is so unique, educational, fun, funny, amazing chops, enlightening, and thought provoking. I love it. I'm a new subscriber and man! What a breath of fresh one of a kind air. Thank You my man.
I never really heard that “change” you thought you were hearing. Always sounded straight to me.
I've never heard it the way you hear it, which I find really interesting. Even after watching this video and hearing the riff with both a straight beat and offbeat, it still sounds the same to me.
FULL VERSION OF THE SLOW BEAT jeez that sounds so good 😂
Dude slowed down white stripes beat Dyers Eve turns into a groove metal and it sounds sick
4:49 dyers eve with that drum beat sounds pretty cool
Please do entire Fight Fire With Fire with counting because I still can’t figure it out!!!
Yes. If there's a tricky one out of all of them, that would be it IMO.
If you’re talking about the chorus it’s half-note triplets. The verse is on the downbeat (intro is dead giveaway) and they throw in an extra 2 beats or so in classic Metallica fashion at the end of each phrase - 4/4 (what...the...) 4/4 (hell is this ) 4/4 (world coming to) 4/4 (nuclear warfare) 6/4 (shall lay us to rest).
@@theopinson3851 The verse of Fight Fire With Fire is all upbeat, although I'll grant you the drums doing the stabs on the upbeats then coming in with the snare on the upbeat of the 4 is very confusing. Took me a lot of listens and play alongs to figure it out. If you try thinking of the verse as downbeat it'll all fall apart when you reach the pre-chorus riff and the chorus.
Dude, thanks this breakdown. Eye of the Beholder and Damage,Inc. also have some quirky things going on that make me question my guitar ability. Nice Job
I have this same tempo-shifting experience with Fight Fire With Fire, right after the solo during the harmonic riff that James and Kirk plays together...
The slowed down version got a heccin grove to it I love it
I never heard it that way, but after you explained it, I can definitely see (or rather hear) how you could perceive it that way
Huh, strangely I was never confused by the timing of this song, even though so many other Metallica songs where Lars uses that damn offbeat crash have required some serious ear training before I understood them (and even so, some still throw me off, mainly Fight Fire With Fire).
Same 100%
FFWF is impossible to feel correctly for me lol
I love this channel so much. I’ve always felt like an idiot because Battery, Blackened, and Dyers Eve trick my ear into swapping the the down and up beats, and for some reason I couldn’t unhear that. But your exercises snap me out of it. You are the man!
i always knew there was some sort of wizardry going on here. great breakdown my man!
Video description was actually very helpful, thank you
I don't hear this "illusion". It sounded all regular to me.
Listening to the Dyers Eve's main riff slowed down, I've just realized that the post-solo riff section "I'm in hell without you" is a variation of that riff in E played at half-time feel. I thought those riffs were totally unrelated before. It's even more blatant when you play that part faster with 16th notes on the bass E.
Are you a Corrosion of Conformity fan? Would love to hear you break down some of the drumming on the Wiseblood album.
Love your song breakdowns
A very similar "messing with you" is done at the beginning or Spirts in the Material World by the Police.
"maybe not concert tempo, let's say studio tempo" -- low key lars dig right there
uh no
I didn't hear what you were talking about until you played just the drums and did the crashes, then my ear switched
Guitar tone is on point.. but speaking of the song - i never really had any problems because i never count - feel the music baby feel it!!!!
Dyers Eve always gets my blood flowing. I just love that song.
Never heard anything tricky on dyers eve...now BLACKENED is a mind fuck when it comes to time signatures and structure
man , crazy drum skills
Can you just do a cover of this? You're teasing the hell out of us!
WOW! Never heard any of it, I just heard the straight forwardness of it and focused on the snare.
Damn I will certainly be learning this one on guitar
Pantera - Heresy
I had a huge brainmelt as a kid on the introriff and when the song kicks in. I heard it onbeat and always struggled to play it. I still keep hearing it onbeat once in a while :D
this sticks drop at the end was brilliant
Having the snare on the and ties the whole damn song together!! Kinda feels like it speeds up without spending up, I know trying to english music is a chore lol
Nothing about this section ever sounded off to me. Listening to it with the straight beat did not change anything for me. I guess I was always hearing it correctly. Of course, I am only a guitarist, so maybe I just never focused that much on what the drums were doing.
When you choke the cymbals, the drums suddenly change to the onbeat on 1 and 3 ,then the snare goes back to the offbear whereas the riff keeps playing on the beat (accenting on 1 and 3). that's the tricky part. Another detail is that Lars counts ten, or five-five on the intro toms fill.
These are great videos
That guitar tone sounds fantastic btw
5:30 BASS BASSS BASSSS!!!
I think Lars plays “semi-corcheas” (IDK how to say it in English, I speak spanish only) in the hi-hat: the first note is like a ghost note or ghost hits (watch Jeff Porcaro videos about Roxxana Shuffle) and the second note is played with accent (that’s why sometimes we listened to like a off-beat). Look at the Seatle concert in 1989, When lars plays Blackened, he plays the hi-hats in semicorcheas but putting accents in every second-forth-sixth notes.... I hope anyone understand my comment 😅
For me, I always listen to my gut. OR, in Metallica's case, my head. Whatever beat it wants to bob to, that's what I go-to. Keep rocking-on, dude! awesome vid!
Lars hitting crash in the upbeat from ancient times... I think he does it every beat every song
I'm realising more and more now that the proper "drummer" in Metallica is James. Lars just follows him to keep himself in time.
Fun fact, apparently James has hardly any drums in his live monitor mix whereas Lars has tons of James in his ears, so you’re basically spot on.
I dont know about that. If Lars really followed James, he would be able to keep better time.
Did that realization come about after reading that article about the Gojira frontman trying James' in ear monitors with basically no drums in his feed that was trending a week ago?
Yeah, I once heared, that James has almost to none drums in his live monitoring and everyone is following him.
Don't know if it's true, but it would explain a lot.
I eye roll in your general direction.
Yes my man! Yes!
".. well, maybe not concert tempo, but studio tempo"
What a savage burn!
He said 'I don't have enough toms to do it "Justice" ' 😂
That would be pretty great if a guitar teacher got behind the drums to show me exactly how beats landed learning a song. Or just explaining music concepts. Pretty great. I don't think even with this excellent explanation I am ever going to play this full speed though.
Never happened to me with this song. I heard something similar with Fight Fire With Fire, when I first heard it.
dude you got pure tekkers on guitar and drums!
Ive had this problem with fight fire with fire, battery, blackened and metal militia. This last one im still unable to understand, too feel it the way i should so i can play it
I have a different question. How long did it take you to get this guitar riff down? I can pick pretty darn fast on the low E string, but when I try it on the A string it’s like I’m a baby again. Is it just the same old deal of hours of repetitive practice? Thanks in advance!
To be honest I don't put much thought into the beat, I just hear it and it makes sense and play along to it. If it sounds good then I'm doing it right. Then again I'm not a drummer, I play guitar and bass. So kind of like what the guys themselves did back then. It's not like they really knew that much about time signatures and music theory they played what sounded the most metal lol
FUCK YEAH! you sound like Nick Menza playing Lars absolutely killer
I’m not sure, but my suspicion is that Lars noticed that the guitar began drifting outside of the accents on the third cycle of the riff, but it would all lock back together if he was able to hold steady with the double time beat, which he was (at least at the time). So I tend to agree with others here who are arguing that James is the one in control, which in retrospect is hardly surprising given the fact that he is clearly on another level of musical sophistication than Lars. But I give Lars full credit for his drum parts, right up until the Black album. Everything he did sounded great and Justice was a special example where the band took the rhythmic complexity to the farthest extreme. If only the production and mixing on that album had been left to the experts, it would probably be my favourite Metallica record.
I always thought the beat did shift, same at the beginning of Blackened
Honestly, James made those key signature changes, not Lars. Lars was still playing 4/4. It just so happened it WORKED!!!
WHERE IS THIS VIDEO OF JAMES ENDING THE DEBATE?! I NO FIND
Lars really was an interesting drummer, and gets massive points with me for being unorthodox during a time in hard rock/heavy metal where only precision and speed counted. No one wanted to go too far off the beaten path save for maybe 3 or 4 other big names - Lombardo for example. He set out to spice things up every chance he got, whether it was time changes, weird accents, or off-beats that caught you off guard.
I think your ear might get fooled because Lars seems to be struggling with his set and lagging behind. James is always on top of his riffs and accurate as hell. The rhythm changes and twists are probably Lars' ideas and mostly accidents by origin - like the one in Blackened. James must've liked it so they kept it. If you listen to Lars' unedited drumming on live gigs and some behind the scenes clips, you can see what kinds of mistakes he is prone to. Not saying I don't like the twists - love the first four albums. It's just that after listening to Lars and his struggle with drums throughout his career, I'm pretty convinced this is the case.
Funny I never had an issue with this songs timing. Only the double bass lol.
Edit : just relistened to it, it's weird but I could definitely play that part on drums no issue. What really gets me is gojiras drumming. I can never understand for the life of me. I get Lars though lol
That's interesting, because I the whole time I couldn't tell what the confusing timing is he's talking about?
@@j_freed absoluuutely same, i don't get it lol
2:07 "if dyers eve was on the black album"
Sounds all pretty well straight 4/4 to me
This reminds me of the intro to "Kickstart My Heart" by Motley Crue, always been a hot debate if the beat is on the 1&3 or the 2&4 (it's 1&3 if you ask me!)
Great work bro!!
Amazing skills!! Great drumming and video!!🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯💯🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁
I know exactly what you mean, but I don't get this rhythmic illusion from Dyers Eve at all.
Fight Fire With Fire is the one that tricked me forever.
There's a brilliant example of this in their song Blackened too, after the crazy guitar solo. Same "main riff" but the drums shift to the off-beat. Great stuff.
Anyone else kind of thrown off by Lars' beats on Creeping Death from :37 to :47 (and whenever that parts plays again) and also on Ain't My Bitch during the intro and the build-up part later on? Those have always bugged me. Great songs, though. And I do respect Lars as a song writer with James.
The speed kinda hides the groove, doesn't it? I actually love how the riff sounds when you slow it down.
But as Abaddon or Early Judas Priest Lars put an accent not only on hi hat but on the double bass triplet that makes the thing not only urgent but swing in a fast thing.
Tom hunting have that too
I had that same Flying V wish I never sold it😭
This never really confused me. The part in Lars's drum section that does confuse me is that strange little hitch crash-snare type fill he does at 0:43 and 1:08. I ALWAYS lose the rhythm there....
And of course, the verses where it's constant double-kick with no reference to the downbeat.
Same here. It doesn't completely kick me out of the rhythm, but it does a bit. And other than this particular fill nothing else ever made me troubled, the whole rest of that tune is straightforward and understandable to me. I'm fine with verses too.
I never ever heard the snare as the downbeat in Dyers eve. In fact, I tried to hear it the wrong way in your demonstration but can't no matter how hard I try. I do however, still struggle with Fight Fire with Fire. Logically, I can see it on paper and play it to the correct time but always incorrectly hear the snare as the down beat when listening to the album.
No. Its felt like it was on the *and* ever since I first started learning how to play this lol
Nahhh, he does the same thing in Fight fire with fire. Snare changes from the on beat to off beat in that song to. It's just something he used to do
I don't know what you mean, but nice playing
I must say that I have never had any problem with this song. I have always heard it off beat throughout the riff. Fight Fire with Fire is the song that is impossible for me. I know what is happening in it, but I just can't play it. The on beat feeling in the main riff is so strong that it messes my brain up when it changes to the second riff which has an off beat feeling. And the melodic solo part is even worse. :p
Make a video about Lars' best fills! I thought that tom fill was different until now that I saw you play it
The art of being a damn fine drummer also.
Thank you. Still love that DW.
Oh wow, i didnt know Chino Moreno plays drums.
I've never come across a drummer who had trouble with the timing of this song.
Hmm, I wonder if does this live
Doesn't this happen a hell of a lot on Master of Puppets and And Justice though?
I think the illusion occurs because the riffs don't really have traditional loops in them, in the sense that they play on hesitation, anticipation and repetition variations between bars, making the riff seem to repeat, but not quite. I think that, as a whole, or ears get fooled by this type of playing. Doesn't the chorus of Master of Puppets have the same thing?
I hear no shift. It’s the same the whole time at any speed. I’m having trouble even understanding where or how you or anyone else hears anything change. You do the chokes and then go right back to the same beat. Not weird at all. This is the closest Lars ever gets to playing thrash the way Benante, Hunting, Lombardo, Cavalera, Tempesta, Hoglan, or any other thrash greats would play it. Maybe that’s what’s confusing. Lars playing thrash metal, actually.
I really dig the slowed down version
Bro you are the best. I understood nothing😆😆😆
Am I the only one who hears it on the off beat the whole time? It never sounded like it switched to me. Some musicians just hear stuff weird. I remember when I first heard the Holy wars intro, I always thought the galloped notes started exactly on the one instead of slightly before the one, with the first two being pickup notes. It made transitioning to the next part so awkward.
I’ve always heard it on the off beat.
I'm pretty sure that Lars never even thought about this stuff. He just played what sounded good to him, what felt right and whatever. Like that part in Blackened in the other video, I bet he just messed up once and thought "it sounds fucking cool".
I know because as a self-taught musician/producer every time I work with someone with deep musical theory knowledge they start to break things down to pieces in a clinical way. And most of the time stuff that sounds cool is theoretically wrong.
There’s no such thing as “theoretically wrong”
Music theory is not a set of rules. It’s descriptive not prescriptive
good video bro \m/
2:07 _Now that we're dead_ level complexity
The drummer doesn’t follow the guitar the guitar follows the drums
The riff slowed down is cool as fuck!
It must be testament to me learning Metallica by ear about 15 or 20 years ago when I started guitar.
I do remember listening to songs from Justice and being confused, but that was so, so long ago that I can't hear the songs that way any more. Every time you played this, fast, slow, didn't matter, sounded just fine to me, 4/4 all the way. The guitar accents are on the off beats which makes the drums sound like they are playing the off beat. I have been counting this song out in my head for so many years, and can play that guitar riff, so I guess I shall never go back to the confusion of my teenage years before I actually learned some music!
Recently, a drunk chick at a gig told me I did a good Roger Taylor after we did a Queen song and I drummed, her exact review was "Yoooouuuuu ghaaaaat it riiiiiiight!!" as she stumbled past me propped up by her other half... I was so proud.