The FORGOTTEN Class of D&D 5E!
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2024
- On the 13th of March 2017, WOTC released a brand-new class for playtesting. Before the Artificer existed, there was the Mystic.
This Retrospective discusses the fate of Psionics in 5e, and why the Mystic now lies forgotten.
#dnd #dnd5e #ttrpg
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In this modern day, of every class gaining more options, the mystic seems like it could fit in better. It just needed subclasses that weren't "this class but psychic".
I honestly love psionics. And crave a propper psionic class.
I'm excited for MCDM to release their psionic class, the "Talent." I think it'll turn out pretty good considering their track record.
@@drewforchic9083 this, absolutely!
Psychomancer 😎
Yeah, the problem with Mystic as a class is they basically can get the role of any class, just like the Druid has been in 5e, where he tanks more than Barbarian, it's a great spellcaster for basically every level, has more than enough utility with his wild shapes and can heal, obstruct and support everyone. That's bad design, cuz every class should shine on their respective niches. The bard is similar, but his niche is precisely being a jack of all trades, and he isn't actually better than anyone in anything but versatility (even though he's the best class in the game). With 5.5, the druid problem is being solved. However, psionics would need to get their own niche instead of being this just objectively better class for anything. Artificers are in a similar position but that's more due to powercreep since they're the last released class.
Mystics are not forgotten by forever dms, it was a class that has given me PTSD.
I don't care what wizards says, I still play the mystic as it was presented. It's a little cumbersome on vtt character sheets that aren't made to track that sort of thing, but I still play it. It's a fun class and it's a shame the never went and tweaked it to a full release. I even offer it to my players when they're making characters. I have a lot of love for that class.
It's a real shame, especially considering they did the artificer four times, but Mystic only once without ever trying to tweak or balance it for a fill release. It would've been a pretty good release for Spelljammer, what with a lot of creatures in Spelljammer being psionic in some way
Even if Mystics didn't become a thing in 5e, but the psionic-themed sub-classes passed via UA and released in Tasha's Cauldron (except for Wizard, what i missed most), maybe we will see psionics in OneD&D, in time.
I preferred those subclasses with the changing dice they had in the UA
Mystic not the same as psionic - mystic is more like psionic monk while psionic is mind controller or manipulator - best psionnics in dnd is in 4 edition. Its pure telepatic and telekenitc abilitys , no mutations, no fireballs . I think 4e this is what psionics must be in 5e there is psionic wizard (dont remember what book) and thats most close representation of what psionic shoulbe. Mystics in UA are more like semi-shifters, semi-psioniks,semi-monks but also broken.
@@shushpanchicusrex6410 it needed to be at least 2 classes to do it right. 4E had 4 (mostly cause of the role system). It's like if you were to take every 5E arcane caster class and put them together saying "this is the class that does arcane magic"
@@tomraineofmagigor3499 4e got 2 classes in its 3rd or second book. One was pure psionnic second was psionnic-tank somethig like that. So you need only 1 class to do it right.
@@shushpanchicusrex6410 Ardent, Battlemind, Monk, and Psion are all Psionic classes in 4E. One for each role. My point stands
Let’s not forget, the Beast Barbarian took elements from the Immortal Disciplines, particularly from the Adaptive Body and primarily the Bestial Form and its Bestial Transformation feature.
You're absolutely right! I'm kicking myself for missing it out - especially as the Immortal was my favourite!
@@Grungeon_Master Immortal was definitely one of my favorites next to Wu Jen and Soulknife.
I allow mystics in my games. It never was a problem, but then again, my games are very different from normal dnd as we use a lot of homebrew systems including guns, enchantments(enhancing weapons) every character having psionic powers via a secondary level tabel and other stuff that is too complicated to explain here, but in my documents :)
Thanks for the heart. Just wanted to say this was the first video from you I watched just now and I think you are an awesome narrator and I really like your voice! Keep it up, you’re doing great!
There is a cool Psion homebrew class out there published by Kibbles, who also created an artificer adjacent class called the Inventor. The Psion can choose disciplines from (IIFRC) a maximum of three psionic schools. Its a pretty neat homebrew class with a few sublasses that reminded me of the Mystic class (Transcendent Psion instead of Immortal Mystic).
Have played this class at my table and I can attest it is an awesome psionic class that doesn't overshadow the other classes. It's my go to psionic option!
Interesting. Might check it out, as I've been looking for a Psion class
I took a Psion to lvl 20 and loved it. Kind of tight on resources if you dont get a lot of short rests.
The issue really with Mystic is it was the introduction of psionics as a player option, and was the only option for a psionic player class at the time.
As a result they felt a need to fit more or less EVERYTHING you _could_ do with psionics into this one class, but given that psionics is an entire magic system unto itself and an alternative to spellcasting, and can do a lot more than just telepathy and simple telekinesis, it means basically recreating every suitable spell/ spell-like ability to have a psionic variant, and where are you going to have the choice to use that? Mystic, separated
They cut some corners by rolling spells into each other with the psionic disciplines (which personally I think are really cool), where one "player option" has 4 or 5 distinct applications that each do different things based off a shared starting concept. However that just makes every individual choice you can pick with Mystic even more diverse in what it allows you to do compared to other classes. It's no wonder the class is "too powerful" or "encroaches on other classes", the only key point to Mystic's class identity is "uses psionics"; beyond that they could be anything, and it's why they fit so well being divided into subclasses for the other classes.
The little flavour Mystic did have besides "is psychic" was pretty much just Monk again anyway, slightly crossed with certain types of Sorcerer. Because there's so little class identity, the identity became the unique variant of magic they used. Avatar, Immortal, and Nomad make sense as Mystic subclasses (more or less), but they could've been 3 distinct psionic classes collectively regarded as "mystics" and had the full list of psionic disciplines divided between them, the same way spellcasters rarely have access to all spells; This would have given them each more identity and narrowed their respective focuses, making "mystics" step on fewer toes regarding other class's niches. But because it's all encompassed by The Mystic, The Mystic is able to be any/ all of those things.
This all isn't helped by the handful of very meaningful differences between spellcasting and psionics, both lore-wise and mechanically, as those differences mainly favoured psionics due to most existing antimagic options not working on psionics. Antimagic & counterspell options are/ were anti-spellcasting, ineffective against spell-like abilities like a dragon's breath weapon or psionics; When psionic abilities are mechanically just spellcasting but without components and maybe even without spell slots, that's fine, they're still susceptible to these counter options. But when it becomes it's own entire system we now have a problem because suddenly the Mystic is essentially a full spellcaster with "all spells you cast are immune to the effects of counterspell and dispel magic, and possibly aren't detected by detect magic" as an intrinsic property. This on top of being every spellcaster and also somewhat the martials, depending on their preferences.
Mystic's fascinating but deeply flawed, it's pretty much the ultimate in "I'm trusting you to not abuse this opportunity and to play in good faith" options if a DM knowingly allows you to play it.
I honestly feel like they threw the baby out with the bathwater on the mystic. Sure we didn't really need a new mechanical niche for casters (support, crowd control, blasting, etc. were all already covered), but their variable discipline powers were all super cool, and psi points felt very different to the way the traditional casters interacted with their powers.
I think they could've easily fixed things by limiting each subclass to a fixed selection of discipline schools, and breaking apart some of the more versatile school options, to stop players from making a swiss army knife.
Maybe even splitting psi points up into 3 tiers or something to prevent players pooling all their useless low level slots into a big fireball.
Instead we got those lame psionic subclasses, that felt very tacked on, with a bunch of regular spells that didn't feel very psionic-y, or random class features players didn't necessarily want, bundled in.
But I guess I do kinda get why WoTC didn't want to have to essentially print every spell in the game twice though, just so both tradtional and psionic classes could use them.
So many mystic players would ignore the psi limit breaking the character. It's like if you gave sorcerers infinite spell slots of course that makes them overpowered.
Love it that youtube recommended this to me. Great video, hope your other stuff is as great as this.
I played a Mystic in 5e a few years ago. Must of been out of UA. I loved the theme and potential rp of the class so I picked it up thinking it was just a brain wizard. Oh boy was I wrong. The game was in person so I had my character sheet, my spell sheet (which was practically useless) and then my many, many, *many*, printed out spells and psi abilities. Must have been like 16 pages worth of powers and abilities. I pride myself on being ready with my actions during combat when it’s my turn. My mystic, however, spent more time flipping thru scraps and papers trying to figure out what specific ability would be best, how many points I want to use, etc. It was a lot.
I wonder if Mystic was really as strong.
Like, if versatility was the problem, how much worse than peacechron was it?
Like, as it is now, rogue, monk, barbarian and fighter are outclassed in every single regard by spellcasters with minor adjustments.
The Mystic Class was a really great idea, albeit one that needs to be handled carefully. I've built a dual-class Mystic (Order of the Immortal)/Warlock (Celestial) PC named Yueliang Jingzi with the Hermit background that's pretty badass. She's loosely based on Chinese cultural themes and she uses a sword breaker (鐧 jian) and a heavy chef's knife (骨刀 gudao) as her main weapons, the sword breaker being her Warlock's "Pact of the Blade" weapon. I doubt I'll ever get to play her in anyone else's campaign, because that would involve getting the DM to approve, so she'll probably forever remain an NPC in my own campaign when I'm DM.
I think a lot of the mystics power was tied to how many psi points they could spend on a single ability. GM binder has a really nice balanced mystic class that is super fun to play and limits the amount of psi points able to be used and just fixed some op abilities in general. I love the mystic personally, it allows me and some of my players to be so creative with character and build ideas. Justice for mystic indeed.
The mystic seems like a great solo player class. I might try it sometime. 🌌
I feel like Mystic could easily be redone if it followed the Psionic Dice model that PSI Warrior and Soul Knife use. Replace PSI points with a pool of PSI Dice where you can either: invest a threshold of dice for an ability (see the One D&D playtest for Rogue exchanging Sneak Attack dice for extra effects), or have the option to gamble rolling a lesser number of dice to meet the PSI points "DC." It prevents you from needing a calculator to go from 64-7-5-1-1-4 to figure out where your PSI points are at, instead having something like 14d8 that can easily be tracked like Hit Dice, and since the dice would increase in size over time, saving dice with rolls becomes a more viable idea as the PC gets more powerful. It would need a lot of finagling though, Mystic and Psionics seem to work on a very fine point scale so fitting that into dice would be tough, but also the PSI point distribution seems completely arbitrary in the first place?
Maybe also chillax on the number of disciplines available at once. As cool as it is that Psionics have been able to do all of these different things, for the sake of Mystic not stepping on anyone's toes, it'd be best for some disciplines to be made into subclasses for other classes, like PSI Warrior, Soul Knife, Aberrant Mind, and allegedly Beast Barbarian (an altered UA version of which I've played and enjoyed as a CON-centric Barbarian, just sprout multiple natural weapons and go nuts with a Multiattack and Advantage Athletics jump distance). Also, maybe a little less Psionic Mastery; I don't fully know how powerful the Disciplines are, but being able to concentrate on multiple things is baseline kind of super bananas.
My first ever campaign, I wanted my character to feel like Spider-Man and I came accross the mystic, absolutely loved playing the music. My DM and I tweaked the power level a little as he felt it was broken but I loved being able to switch styles and help my team. Great video !
haven't actually looked at the class's mechanics, but imo the Mystic is probably what the Monk should've been-over-the-top superpowers
Part of me wonders if part of the reason why the Mystic was dropped rather than being reworked, potentially into a couple classes, is that various other things meant that they weren't going to be doing something like Dark Sun as a setting book with other things winning out.
Same as their plans for a larger MtG based setting book was dropped in favor of more in depth ones of a few specific MtG settings (Can't remember the specifics of where it was stated, but there were plans for most of the Planechase pdfs to be a testbed for that and people wanted existing multiversal stuff first with planescape and spelljammer.
You have earned a subscribe sir. And thank you for making a video dedicated to one of the most fun classes ever to exist and in my opinion to dm for or play.
It seems that if each mystic's disciplines were tied to its mystic order, the mystic would be more reasonable.
I did some serious homebrewing of the Mystic class to address all the issues the class had. I split all the Mantle component options into "Powers", assigned them Displays like 3e, an explicit manifesting time, and limited the Mystic to a number of discrete powers equal to their level plus Intelligence modifier, and can even choose powers beyond their psi limit to manifest. If they know all the powers of a set, they get access to its Focus. By expending 1 psi point, a Focus can be activated; expending a bonus action to deactivate a Focus reclaims that psi point, but having the Focus interrupted does not. Each Order associated with a Discipline then allowed for gaining the complete powers of associated mantles. Attempting to manifest a power outside your discipline requires succeeding on a check to avoid failure. Talents never require such a check.
Just really wanted to play a An *Empath* character.
One that could sense and manipulate the emotions of those around him.
One player kept telling me to play a Paladin for the Aura abilities but that wasn't the theme I was going for...
I like watching some of this fellows videos. He just showed up for me recently.
I always listen to him in 1.25 to 1.5 speed lol. Nothing wrong with his style of speaking. It’s just me being impatient
Keep creating content! Excited to see more
Everyone can hate the mystic, I get the logic, buuuut
I'll always love the mystic for how customizable and powerful it was. I made a cosmic horror titan mystic and it was possibly the most fun thing I've ever played. The fact I could set myself aflame, increase my size, and fly while dealing 7d10 per turn at lvl 10; best class
Playing a Psi-warrior Fighter, love that sub-class. So thank you Mystic for giving me something so fun
VALOR BARD!!! Fighter/Healer/Full Caster/Expertise!!! It already did it all, and it's in the PHB. But yeah, I wanted to make a Jedi mystic back in 2017, too 😢
I’ve taken it and tuned it down a bit. I’ve had players use it at my table to great effect, and no problems arose. Truly a tragedy what happened to it.
you make a great point about the mystic from a player standpoint but as a game designer id never consider making anything of that caliber ever. it runs too much of a risk to overshadow everything in the game something spellcasters kinda already do off the rip. i would love to see a class with psychic powers making them a standard spellcaster+ isnt the way to go, i would go with something more like how monks relate to martials or even give it its own non-spell spells which could be amazing, you could keep things like making weapons but you could mess with it like clouding a characters mind to make them forget things and so on, as long as they had no normal magic standardly
Yeah, I think you're right. At least in 5E, psionics can only really be either minimal flavour (minor subclass features, feats, etc), or be a completely new form of interacting with the world (an entire class or new spellcasting system).
At the end of the day, in this system, the grand heroic fantasy of psionic combat is so hard to get right on the player side. One of the biggest issues is the resource concept - as the Psion fantasy dies the moment you have to use components, or focii for your abilities.
We can always try! I have my own home-brewed psionic stuff. I guess it'll have to do.
@@Grungeon_Master foci doesn't have to ruin it! An orb or other similar foci can be seen as an "external mind" it would be the kind of thing that's not needed but it would relieve the burden on the mind of the psion
Making them “non-spell” spells even fits the lore as psionic spells cannot be counterspelled in lore. There an entire Drow house in Menzobarrenzan that focuses on psionics and are a pain for everyone because they can get away with almost anything and no arcane or divine magic can stop them
The sad thing is, they could have actually fixed it.
Just adjust some ability requirements, remove some of the stuff that steps on other classes' toes, adjust some of the numbers...
And the disciplines could have been made subclass restricted, but still earnable via in-character debate with a mystic NPC that the PC mystic is trying to learn it from.
But instead of constructive criticism on how to fix it and a follow-up on said constructive criticism, all the UA Mystic got was backlash and the proverbial axe.
From a lore perspective, it was actually pretty cool too, especially if you wanted a campaign where the walls between the Prime Material and the Far Realm start to get particularly thin...
A fun "forgotten class" mystic dip and pheonix sorcerer build that isn't too complex to play.
The Fire Eater - boarding and raiding party specialist
Dex 1st, Con 2nd, Cha 3rd, Wis 4th
Gold Ancestry Metalic Dragonborn
- Metallic Breath Weapon
- Metallic Resistance
- Metallic Warding
Marine background.
- Steady feature and vehicles
2 level Mystic Order of Immortal
- Beastial Form, Giant Growth, Mastery of Fire.
- Lightstep
- Immortal Durability
1 level Sorcerer Phoenix Sorcery
- Mantle of Fire
17 levels Monk Ascendant Dragon
- Breath of the Dragon
- Aspect of the Wyrm
- Draconic Disciple
- Wing Unfurled
- Other Monk features
Feats
- Fighting Initiate/Tunnel Fighter
- Fighting Initiate/Mariner
- Sentinel
- Mobile
Languages - Common, Draconic, Choose 1
+ Tongue of the Sun and Moon
+ Telepathy
Musical Instruments - Choose 1
Artisan's Tools - Disguise Kit, Choose 1
4 total Cantrips. Greenflame, Firebolt, Control Flame, Thunderwave(reflavored to fire damage).
Known Sorcerer Spells - Mage Armor, Shield
65' movement, +10' Light Step
Flying with Step of the Wind and Wings Unfurled. Climbing and Swimming via Mariner.
AC10 +Dex Mod +Con(or Wis) Mod
+1AC Mariner
+2AC Tough Hide
+3AC Mage Armor
+5AC Shield
Immune to Disease and Poison via Purity of Body.
Resistance to Fire ×2 with Mastery of Fire, Metallic Resistance.
Resistance to chosen element with Aspect of the Wyrm.
Immune to Fire with Metallic Warding.
Other defensive features.
Simple turns most of the time, move, basic unarmed attacks, bonus action to trigger Tunnel Fighter. Greenflame Blade on attacks of opportunity.
Tough Hide to avoid hits, Mantle of Flame and Mastery of Fire to max out "breath weapon frenzy", Giant Growth and Ogre Form for blocking routes with a 20' total reach.
Unarmed 5' standard reach 1d10 +Dex Fire
+5' Reach w/Giant Growth
-or-
+2 fire damage w/Mastery of Fire
-and-
+Cha fire damage w/Mantle of Flame
+10' reach and +1d4dmg w/Ogre Form
--Breath Weapon Frenzy--
Breath of the Dragon 3d10 Fire
+2 w/Mastery of Fire
+Cha Mod w/Mantle of Flame
--and--
Metalic Breath Weapon 4d10
+2 w/Mastery of Fire
+Cha Mod w/Mantle of Flame
--both--
Can replace one attack each out of an attack action. Can do upto two breath weapon attacks per Attack Action.
Third party content creator, Kibblestasty has a very nice Psion class heavily inspired by the Mystic UA.
Just wanted to applaud your incredible enunciation, bravo Sir
Honestly the mystics biggest problem with perceived power was versatility(despite half the disciplines being worthless) and nova ability it’s pretty well documented that dnd campaigns often only have 1-3 fights per long rest vs the rule standard 6-8 which has massively contributed to the martial caster divide, but while we have become essentially numb to this balance issue, the mystic was even more nova heavy than the casters especially early game, this meant that in say 1-2 fight per long rest games mystics would dominate being able to dump dozens of sci-points into anything
Learning about the Mystic is what pulled me into my recent D&D obsession. I never used to be that interested in it because the game and mechanics always felt just too limiting to me, like it was designed to tease a player by saying "Look at all this fun stuff you can do" and then gating it off in ways that meant you could have a trickle of that fun, but never in the same character or campaign. A friend showed me the UA about Mystics without explaining exactly what the UA was, and I was hooked. I was getting ready to buy all the books and start my D&D journey. Then I learned exactly what UA was and I was crushed. The nearly perfect class and resource system, and they scrapped it. Maybe if there is ever a 6e and it includes Mystics, then I might dive back in.
I'm still playing and my friends still play with it. Like 30 different people. None of us thought the mystic were OP, actually all of us loved the mystic and it's amazing personalization.
God this guy is so iconic. I feel like there should be a vine boom at the end of all of his sentences.
Watching this on 2x speed so there isn’t a 5 second pause between each word
The words "Too confusing for new players" comes to mind, and just like in TF2 it's hilarious in hindsight.
I do wonder if we'll get a pure psionic themed class in the new 5th edition, one that's more focused and less open. I think something similar to Pathfinder's psychic or 4e's psioncist, or even turning the monk into a more psi instead of ki focus
Currently playing a Psychic in Pathfinder 2E. It mostly hits the right notes, though it still feels a bit wizard-like (e.g., uses spell slots, uses many of the same spells as arcane/occult casters, etc.)
In Pathfinder 2E, the Psychic doesn't introduce an entirely new mechanics at all. It's a spellcaster just like any other. It just doesn't need to vocalize, and instead of making arcane patterns they have more psychic-like motions for spellcasting. It still has some abilities that set it way apart from other spellcasters.
I do think the idea of the Mystic being able to do every class's job well enough was going too far
However, I'm not really a fan of the Sorcerer having a psionic subclass (Fighter and Rogue are fine, lol. It's like having an Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster)
I think psionics should be kept separate from magic. 4e had a psionic power type, though it also classified it as "Psionic Magic" which is. . . eh.
Just use a couple of those classes. We already have the Monk, bring in the Psion and Ardent.
Not Battlemind, the Psi-Warrior Fighter subclass can probably handle that. I probably personally wouldn't use it (I rarely use Eldritch Knight [or the full class Paladin, lmfao] but I know others like it lol), I'd probably go with multiclassing Fighter with Psion instead. But it's there.
I can see why people thought it was overpowered, but I'm still disappointed that it got binned because wotc refused to make a video explaining how it functioned to address people getting confused by the complexity, especially after I saw a youtuber explain it perfectly in about 13 minutes.
i once got to play a mystic in a prescribed 6 session game, going the swiss army knife route with it. makes me sad its not an official class!
Subbed cause you're pretty cool dude. Please don't stop making videos
My DM asked me to playtest the Mystic in his campaign when it first came up.
I read through all the given information, built my character to what i believed to be the weakest subclass for the mystic (the one with souls knives or whatever)
when we started playing, I outdid every other player in what their classes should be good at.
I out healed the healers.
I out meleed the fighters.
I out magiced the spellcasters.
I was a jack of all trades, expert at all.
I hated every minute of it.
we retired that character into godhood.
I wish it became a thing, it need to major reworks but my god
Last person I heard talk about a dnd class involving Psionics went crazy apparently. Still love his Dnd stories such as the great water gun war of shadow run and that time a Sith turned into a roasted marshmallow
My first TTRPG character was a high wisdom/perception pathfinder 2e air elementalist, tengu
As of MOM, in D&D you can technically play a medium kenku who doesn't require mimicry to speak but is still good at impersonations, maybe a druid?
it is supremely difficult to make a character who is master of the air element, simply because the air spells suck do dang hard... like, sure in pathfinder they also sucked, but so did every other elementalist, it's based of a system where low level mages do horrendously low damage
Idk, maybe air elemental magic just isn't well supported from a physics standpoint, I mean blowing on someone isn't exactly the same as breathing fire on them
The problem was 5e trying to pair everything down to have just one psionic class. They took what was the soul knife, the psychic warrior and psion/wilder. 3 separate classes that play very differently and shove them in one class for the sake of simplicity.
I also don't like that they gave up on a psionic class and just shoved them into being subclasses for other classes.
Something that 5e keeps doing, like I can't understand how in its entire lifespan we only got one new class. But older editions like 3.5 had dozens, and even PF2e has introduced several new classes in it's shorter lifespan than 5e in its entirety.
I played a Mystic many years ago, as allowed in the AD&D edition. There was a whole complete publication dedicated to the class. I assure you that, even though complicated, this class was absolutely fascinating
The audio in this video is very low. When I turned up the voluke, the ads were earbreakingly loud.
I've been playing a Psion from WebDM's Weird Wastelands book, and it really scratches that psionic itch
I run a homebrew psionic with its own table and limitations. They don't get to have regular spells as their mind is already filled with all their psionic abilities and they don't get to take regular actions like punching or kicking when psionics is in use. I made a list of actions that are possible and the players have no issue. Any additional actions they can just ask and we make a quick consensus or we roll for its success. Saves a lot of problems.
I never thought about it being the holygrail of solo play before.
We do need another INT based class
I would honestly love to try playing a mystic. This sounds awsome.
I wonder...how different was it from 3E Psionics? I never had a chance to dive into it and Ive been outside the hobby looking in through the window for so long I didnt even know 5th had tried to do the Mystic and its failure lead to small "psi-lite" subclasses.
I remember reading The Book of Psionic. I don't remember where or when but I do remember.
The old UA Mystic id my favorite go to for when my DM does a one-shot and don't care what homebrew is used. It's almost bribery to bring me aboard that I can play a mystic. I go Immortal and pick everything healing and support. I can have untouchable AC and have everyone attack one enemy in particular at advantage and be able to heal. The other guys can used their damage builds all they want, I got the tanking and support they need.
I cherry-picked the UA Mystic rules to give unique abilities to an arc's BBEGs.
The Bullywug Troika!
Lord Yaggack, Lady M'Beeb, and The Excellent Lowoyo. Kinda leaning into The Hypnotoad from "Futurama". They focused on martial might, diplomacy (A.K.A. mind-reading & control), and Lovecraftian unnatural phenomena, respectively.
Delightful! Love myself some frogs, and frogfolk villains using mystic abilities is an idea so 'me' I wish I'd thought of it!
@@Grungeon_Master so say you thought of it. I'll back you up
🤠
I remember the UA of the Mystic. It was... well, I'll talk about it through the following text if you deign it worth your time to to read:
3:36 - The Mystic had the same power and versatility as a wizard, but with:
• More durability
• More versatility
• The inability to be counterspelled, dispelled, be subject to anti-magic, or I believe they can't even be touched by a fighter with the mage slayer feat, since the mystic generally doesn't use spells, it's something entirely different. With some exception where they actually did cast spells or create spell effects.
• Effectively, none of the downsides to being a wizard.
They could do all you say they can, WITH none of the weaknesses of the equivalent classes. They could do the same job as a rogue while still calling storms, going invisible while still being able to attack, and more, creating explosions, and then do it all again some more.
To add to my point, 7:26 - They could, in essence, do whatever the other classes could, but at times, more effectively. At many times. Outclassing the rogue in single-target damage, outclassing the wizard in versatility while not retaining its weakness of being physically the weakest class in the game, with its d8 hit die as opposed to a measly d6. It could surpass or perhaps just match the Barbarian in durability. Ah! And overtakes the Warlock in customizability, of course. All, once more, without the flavor drawback of having to sell your soul or do an otherworldly entity's bidding, or even having any connection to an otherworldly being. Perhaps the Mystic doesn't overtake the cleric or druid in healing potential, but they can still heal. And healing is oft considered not as useful as the other things stated here and in this video. And it does stand to reason, they do have the potential to heal, adding to their already incredible versatility.
There is a certain niche for the Mystic in D&D, but it is not in any normal D&D game table with wizards, rogues, fighters, barbarians, or any normal classes. Not in mechanics, at least. Perhaps in flavor and visual aesthetic. I can, however, see a full party of Mystics making the DM's day... not so great. Or perhaps very great. Perhaps limited to just one discipline per character, maybe two at higher levels, to compensate for its high amount of power.
The only thing I don't think it could match is the monk's attacks per turn, though it overtook even that class in other ways, namely its class fantasy of being the humble, or perhaps not-so-humble, wise and powerful practitioner of the power of one's own body and mind. That part is my own opinion, however, and of course I recognize that reflavoring is an important and very fun part of this game and your idea of the mystic may differ somewhat from mine.
While I think you're largely correct in your interpretations, especially the lack of counterspelling options - I think you may be considering things from a 2017 lens.
What I tried to do in this video is take a look back from 2023, where builds are more complex, and more powerful, multiclassing is exceedingly common, and things like Gloomstalker/Sharpshooter/Assassins exist.
As a base class, mystic (in its 2017 form) would still likely be in the top 3, and notably would be the best 1st level dip ever. But, the abilities themselves (with a few overtuned exceptions - Nomadic Arrow, for one) are, I would say, reasonably in line with the current balance state of 5e. While much of DnD is played in the earlier levels, which can skew expectations of balance (as the Mystic is comparatively far weaker past lv10), I would contend that the Druid, as played currently, is close to outmatching the Mystic, pound for pound. Stealth skills bolstered by transforming into something else? The ability to tank better than many other classes (using wildshape)? Full caster levels - WITH the ability to swap spells every day from a very good list? All with a d8 hit dice. In my money, Druids are better than Mystics (except at lv 1-2)
I suppose my point is, that folks' memories of the Mystic are from a time before optimisation was destigmatised, and a metagame was established. When you add to that the fact that the Mystic was the burgeoning optimisers' dream, it makes sense that it has such a negative reputation. However, I feel that if the Mystic were introduced into 5e now, with none of its history, people would find it overcomplicated, and not to fit the design space, but not exceptional (unless we're allowing multiclassing with Mystics).
I feel that if you did the same thought experiment with the Druid, the amount of 'this is OP and needs a fix' comments among the community would be similar.
Of course, that's just my opinion. The Mystic in its final form wasn't perfect - and as I said, the design was simply flawed. It gave way too much at level 1. But, to suggest that it outperforms other classes in most ways is strange to me - it doesn't get daily spell selection, nor extra attack, and it's exceedingly difficult to build a mystic who can even use all of the most broken disciplines together. Mystics are specialised generalists - either you can build them to do everything okay, or to do one thing better than anyone else. The second use case doesn't bother me - so many builds exist across other classes that invalidate sections of the game! The first was my concern, as it tanks party cohesion.
I guess what I'm saying is that while you're correct that a mystic can be better than most base classes (notwithstanding some of the more powerful recent additions to the game), it can't be better than a rogue, a wizard, and a barbarian at the same time - although it could do their jobs reasonably well.
A friend of mine used a mystic in the first campaign any of us ever played.
He got some kind of DPS build online, and our hearts sank every time he one shot one of my inexperienced bosses. I just ended the campaign after the first story arc, since I couldn't bear to have that keep happening
That sucks.
First adventures are always a challenge, but with the amount of optimisers who were busting this class open, online builds did go crazy.
I hope this didn't ruin the game for you long-term.
"The Mystic does everything."
I personally believe this is another instance of JC not being able to admit he was wrong, so he simply buried it.
Man, I wanna play dnd so bad, I watch different kinds of dnd UA-camrs and videos about relatable things that happen to those who play (can’t relate but i find them pretty funny)
Just gonna copy paste this:
like everyone complained about mystic being too complicated and too overpowered why? i doubt wotc ever figured out why considering they canned the class, but i know why.
1) they never explain how psi points function in parellel to spells
2) they never explain how a mystic is stronger but weaker than other full casters
3) they failed to realize that mystics hit their power spike 9-12 which is when most campaigns end
4) they clearly didnt realize (and the players/dms too) that mystics fall off hard post 13, being almost pointless at level 20
to answer these:
1) The psi cap of 7 allows mystics to cast essentially 5th level spells, this means that mystics have a much wider range of spells but can also cast more 5th level spells than anyone in the game
2) this ability means they give up the power of higher level spells but also their lower level spells to cast more 5th level spells
3) like i dont have to explain this, mystics get 8 5th level spells (using all of their "spell slots") when other classes get their first at level 9. so obviously this creates the impression mystics are op but are they? is 8 5th level spells really better than a bunch of first, 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc? Kind of yes, kind of no, but it definitely catches people off guard which is fair.
4) Which leads into the next point, by level 13 mystics are still casting 5th level spells and full casters are now moving onto 6th level spells and eventually 7th, 8th and 9th but mystics total spell cap isnt increasing much beyond what they had at 9, they get literally 2 extra 5th level spells between level 9 and level 18.
An actual understanding of the mystic class revealed its strengths, its weaknesses, and a proper path to balancing it. Did WOTC do that? Of course not, they gave us a bunch of shit subclasses no one ever wanted or asked for. It would've been ridiculously easy to nerf the outliers of abuse, level out the power spikes and adjust accordingly. Zzz.
Anyway, as for me, I still play Mystic in games, I use Soul Knife which is probably among the weakest of the subclasses given many different factors. But its fun, I get to play a martial class that isn't limited to just whacking a fucking sword every turn with a couple of useless utility skills or flavor skills or what have you.
If I'm trying to play a mystic in my next campaign what how do I sell this to my GM?
@@3rdfitzgerald im not really sure; it depends what subclass you want to go. Immortal for instance is insanely strong, getting two additional psy disciplines at level 1 also opens up a lot of flexibility for non soul knife subclasses.
how long will the campaign go for (in terms of levels)? If it ends pre level 10, mystic isnt insane, if it ends 12-13 mystic can be overbearing, if it goes past level 14 you are gonna be miserable as you realize mystics lack luster end game.
i dont get why people freaked out about mystic so much. it was UA, thats where the busted unfinished nonsense goes. if people had stopped whining for just a minute to give some actual feedback on what features they'd like to be kept in the official version and how to rebalance things we'd have a banger of a class, but we cant have nice things can we.
Great video, keep up the good work. 👍🏽
Honestly a Psionic based class should look a lot like a spell point Sorc, the UA Mystic was way overcooked.
I cant hear you mate, your Mice settings could be better
Itd be cool to have a purely psionics based class, but it has to have its own role rather than just being able to do it all. I really enjoy the idea of a psychic character that uses purely psi abilities without anything being classified as a spell or magic, just with actual limitations on what it can do.
Psi warrior is basically a jedi.
Now I want a Kender Mystic 14:08
Suitable altMystic = Githzerai monk/druid (circle of stars)
I say add as many damn classes as possible while remaining distinct. Variety is the spice
Ever since I heard about the Mystic I told everyone my simple way to balance the class.
Give them a d4 hit die
Their mistake was insisting on creating this almost master-of-all-trades class and then canning it when it didn't work.
They should still give Mystic another shot, except it should simply be an INT full caster which uses psionic powers instead of magic spells, that's it (similar to Psion from 3.5e).
So, what you're saying is that as I attempt to venture into solo playing, if I'm going to do it the way everyone recommends with only 1 PC, I ought to try the original Mystic?
Exactly. Although I've never tried solo play myself, the original mystic can feel like a one-man party-lite.
It's certainly an interesting angle to try.
It's 2023, and the Wizard does about everything now. Can we bring back the Mystic?
Why bro talks like stanley parable's narrator
We neeeeeed a psionic class honestly but mystic was fucking broken and just kinda abandoned
This class was a cool concept but tried to do WAY too much and definitely would never work out in most games, they did right when they scrapped it and made the subclasses
I think the core problem with the Mystic class is that "psionics" lacks identity. Fighters have archetypes that can be turned into subclasses, same for Rogues, Clerics, Wizards, etc. But what is the fantasy of playing someone with psychic powers? The abilities themselves aren't flavor, they're a power source. And when you don't have a concrete vision for the type of fantasy you want to play, your class ends up being a broken mess that just kinda does whatever. That's why Psi Knight works, because you're just a straight up Jedi. Mystic had no concrete identities to emulate.
I'm not sure I'd highlight that as the major failing. After all, the sorcerer could be criticised in the same manner - their abilities are simply a power source! If we look to dark sun as inspiration (or even the star wars EU) I think psionic fantasy can be unique, in both presentation and concept - but it requires the world to work around it (in much the same way that artificers require the world to be somewhat high fantasy). Hunter X Hunter and mob Psycho 100 certainly stand as brilliant examples for how to build in psionics to your worldbuilding.
In any case, I don't think a lack of concrete vision killed the mystic. I really think it just doesn't work within 5e to introduce a new magic system without *telling people* how the heroic fantasy may work. I think that's why the artificer worked - all of ravnica was set up to provide concrete examples of their core concepts.
Equally, a setting which showed off psionics could have done much of what you feel lacking.
Idk if I even responded to you lol
@@Grungeon_Master No, I get where you're coming from. I think it may have been a little of both.
Multi classing in 5e allows for even more broken broken combos than anything the mystic has to offer.
Wasn't Rune Scribe another class from Unearthed Arcana?
I'd count it slightly differently, as it's a very unusual case, and wasn't intended for level 1-20 play, but it may prove an interesting deep dive.
Prestige classes are certainly another design area that 5e very much struggles with.
@@Grungeon_Master i knew i saw mystic somewhere on wikidot alongside rune scribe but would you ever consider doing a video on UA Plane Shift races (i.e Aetherborn, Kor, Khenra) or the pact of the Raven Queen for Warlock?
My dm allows me to play mystic, having the time of my life playing the class
great video and love your voice
One problem that I've encountered as a casual player of D&D when confronted with psionics is how poorly defined they seem (I mean this as someone who's not too familiar with Appendix N) and how it differentiates itself from magic, mostly due to magic covering pretty much every outcome I can associate with psychic abilities. There is no conclusion to this comment although if someone were kind enough to explain psionics or direct me to a good source I would be grateful. (Also this whole thought I had is only tangentially related to the video).
So magic in d&d usually functions by using a combination of gestures, words and material components. Psionics is basically just you thinking about an effect hard enough to make it happen without having to deal with the requirements of casting a spell and being a lot less obvious about being the cause of the effect.
For a good explanation of how the mystic works, I'd recommend a video by XPtolevel3 called How to play mystic.
The weird part of the mystic is that a good portion of its abilities were basically spells from 3.5 that never got updated to 5e for whatever reason.
soul knife psi warrior Aberrant Mind and the feats telepathic ans telketic gives the feals but does seem to be something missing.
Try Owlin Mystic Immortal and focus on steel resistance. Then youll understand
Mystics are as forgotten as Henry Kissinger.
-17dB makes this a bit hard on those of us with hearing loss .. but I liked the parts I heard!
Oh shoot! Do you have any tips on how I can fix this for next time?
I'm not the best at the technical side of UA-cam yet!
Honestly? Switch the number of disciplines that have to come from your subclass from 2 to 8, half your problem is fixed. Or at least lower the number of custom disciplines. Also get rid of the free healing on a BA.
This guy could cast dominate person on me and I would have no clue.
I play a Mystic in my friend's campaign. We don't believe it's overpowered. Versatile and complicated, maybe, but not OP. A 5e Mystic would still never be as powerful as Kimmuriel Oblodra.
Never liked the Psi Warrior because you couldn't target enemies with telekinetic movement not even by spending energy dice. that really blows
Pathfinder 2e doesn't have that issue