Due to that a Barbarian with Fighting Initiate for unarmed fighting sounds like the better build since they have good HP with AC based on Con+Dex rather than Wis+Dex, which will just give you more HP as you raise your con and Rage grants you, higher damage and more defensive power, and with reckless attack you can grapple at advantage to activate the unarmed fightings second effect to cause more damage.
Unarmed fighting style sucks for monk. (outside of very specific one-shot levels). It ONLY gives you a d8 if your hands are empty. If you're holding a weapon (like a d10 longsword, which you can make a monk weapon thanks to the fighter dip giving you proficiency and the dedicated weapon feature from Tasha's) then your punches will only be d6 from unarmed fighting style. And by monk 5 your unarmed strikes were already d6 from the martial arts die. Dueling is unironically a higher damage fighting style for monk from monk level 5 onward. Obviously there are limitations to dueling. You have to wield the longsword in one hand, so d8 instead of d10, and yes dueling doesn't benefit your punches at all, but d8+2 stays a relevant damage boost over d10 when you hit level 5. Unarmed fighting style does not stay relevant. Know what else is a better fighting style for monk from level 5 onwards? Great Weapon Fighter. You can weild a longsword in two hands, which qualifies it for the great weapon fighting style, letting you reroll 1s and 2s. d10 reroll 1s and 2s is a little worse than dueling on a monk, but not by much! (Like...0.3% damage difference between d8+2 dueling and d10 reroll 1s and 2s once crits are accounted for). And certainly great weapon fighter is better than unarmed fighting style from level 5 onwards! Not saying you should dip fighter for dueling fighting style or great weapon fighting style on your monk. They...are not great. What I am saying is that they're just overall better than unarmed fighting style. Better from level 5 onwards. (And frankly, only a little bit worse from monk 1-4). Unarmed fighting style is just overall very, very weak. A monk dipping fighter for unarmed fighting style...it's okay in some very specific one-shots. Like you could justify it for a level 2 one-shot, or a level 3 one-shot. I don't think it's a good dip above level 3.
@@AtelierGod A barbarian suffers in mobility, the number of attacks, and wisdom saves (like mind-control effects). The monk features are better suited for someone who hunts down enemy ranged support who wants to keep their distance, rather than for someone in the front lines. I'd hardly call either a "better build". Depends on what the party needs, really.
I played a Dhampir Shadow monk 7/ Gloomstaker 4 for a one shot. I took the blindfighting fighting style to be able to fight in my own darkness. Faced down a couple of trolls, essentially tanking while my party dealt with others enemies. Had zephyr strike. So much mobility, extra utility, extra expendable resources between ki points and spell slots. It was one of my favorite character builds in over 5 years of playing 5e.
The Openhand monk + the battle master fighter is what I call the action hero. Punching tripping pushing disarming and all kinds of other action hero stuff.
@markberghel275 you're incorrect. Kenshiro is a level 20 wizard with a headband of Intellect and finger of death, power word: k1ll and disintegrate alway prepared
Together these two channels kinda do the same as in engineering The Dudes in their Rankings do first drafts of class combinations that could be fun D4 then takes that draft and fills it up to a build for us all to then use/base our own on
Astral Self + Echo Knight = Stand User. One dip in War Cleric offers Divine Favor, a Paladin spell that adds damage, so another point to Cleric and one against Paladin.
I love the format where you guys are having a realistic, informed conversation like you do here, which means you change your mind later. It is much better than having you agree behind the scenes beforehand.
People are always forgetting the Swashbuckler. Swashbuckler is an amazing dip for monk. Not only does Fancy Footwork mostly eliminate the need to take mobility, but Rakish Audacity is perfect for the monk, as the monk's role is a backlines assassin (not a front line fighter or picking off weak enemies. That's why they have the mobility features they do) so they'll be away from the rest of the party around enemies that don't want to be beside the monk.
Swashbuckler/Drunken Fist combo? Swashbuckler allows you to evade and dodge one opponent and suffers against crowds, Drunken Fist prefers crowds and doesn't do well against individual enemies. They cover each other well.
@@loselot6044not for all monks. Shadow step from the way of the shadow works extremely well because of the teleport and afterwards you have advantage on your next attack
Eh. It won't be as good of a video as you would think. The wizard S classes would be the top, followed by the Fighters (action surge is just too strong), then the Bards (they are too versatile), then the rogues (they are too strong in social and exploration), then everyone else.
I think u guys forgot one thing about the fighter dip.... there is a new fighting style on tashas that allow u to get a 1d8 for unarmored attacks if ur are not using any weapon. This allows a monk to start with 1d8 instead of 1d4 right from the beginning
I think people highly overrate getting unarmed fighting style tbh. If you get fighter early you delay extra attack and stunning strike and have less Ki. If you get it after having 5 levels, well then you're only turning your d6s into d8s, or a +1 damage on average. I just don't think that's the main appeal. And if you keep leveling monk, then eventually it becomes worthless! And you can't swap unless you get a fighter ASI and your DM is allowing that optional rule (which they most likely are, but it is worth considering!) This is all not to mention monks can just...use weapons for their main attacks. Swing a quarterstaff and you're doing a d8 anyway.
Not all monks want to use quarter staffs or even weapons at all. The unarmed fighting style is a great way to get lvl 11 monk dmg (which isn’t great anyway but that’s a different discussion). I think people love to underrate things bc it’s makes them feel haughty and superior. D8’s are good and totally worth it if you know - you want to play a monk who feels like a monk.
Astral monk lets you shove and grapple with wisdom Stars Druid let’s you never roll below a 10 on wisdom So astral monk and stars Druid : go 100% wisdom I accidentally swapped the monk subclass and the Druid subclass y’all, chill
Star druid's dragon constellation allows you to get a 10 on a die if you roll lower than a 10 on intelligence and wisdom checks along with con saves that involve concentration, so grapple checks would be around 16 at level 5
I’ve been playing a Monk/ Ranger multiclass for two years in a Tomb of Annihilation game and absolutely loving it. Another fun trick is to stun someone, then hit them with Ensnaring Strike-they auto fail the strength save, and then have to burn *another* action the following turn to break out of the vines.
Wait, I never considered this until now. Can you smite with your fists as a monk since they count as a "monk weapon"? Or is this just a "depends on the dm" kinda thing? Also that's pretty damn smart
@@loselot6044I might be wrong but I feel like that's a "depends on your DM" thing kinda like Sneak Attack with your unarmed attacks, since that says it requires a "finesse weapon" which ordinarily doesn't include unarmed attacks but as a Monk it could be argued they are
Any ability that adds damage on every attack is great. One level of Hexblade gets you both Hex and Hexblade’s curse, and on a tougher enemy, where combat takes a lot of rounds, it really ramps up
You're sacrificing your bonus actions, especially with Hexblade cause both Hex and Hexblade's Curse are bonus actions. It would take 2 turns of setup and if the enemy dies then you need to use your bonus action for switching Hex again, so you're giving up more attacks for a bit more damage. You wouldn't really feel the effect of the "ramp up" since most combats end around round 3-4.
@@Awoken0Not a problem because the assumption you are making is the Monk is on the spot and only attacks. While fast monks can’t (usually) fly and are not always able to close thanks to terrain. This is still viable just not always optimal based solely on how the DM sets the battlefield.
@@Awoken0most combats ending in 3-4 turns is weirdly inflated by the prevalence of small little encounters, the sorts of ones you wouldn’t use both hex and hexblades curse in tandem or potentially just neither. Resource management is still your responsibility as a player, and making the judgement call to use the multi round setup is still contingent on you as a player reading the situation
@@Awoken0 thats why you save it for boss fights which tend to last longer. Also you are taking two rounds to set up means you are losing 4 unarmed strikes which is an average of 14 damage (average of 4d6) + 20 dex mod (assuming they have a +5). in the third round you would be dealing an addition average 14 damage (the 4d6 from hex) + 16 damage. making it only a 4 damage net loss than if you just attack and the fight only lasts 3 rounds. which when you are a level 10 party 4 damage is not a big deal at all.
One other thing about the Monk/Druid is your Unarmored Defense and Movement speed increases carry over to your Wildshapes. Just some fun little synergy
@@johnhall3570 In general an animal's natural weapons are classed as Simple Melee Weapons. So they count as Monk Weapons, but not for unarmed attacks. In theory Kung Fu Panda can use a bonus action to make an unarmed attack, but it would have to be a butt smash or something other than claw or bite.
I did have an idea for a Druid/Monk. Circle of Spores/Astral Self. Basically a cultivator of funghi who believes that when he dies he'll ascend to the Astral Plane whilst his body becomes food for the detritivores.
@@johnhall3570, way of the drunken fist with circle of the moon. Now you're a drunk, break dancing bear. Use the Detect Poison and Disease to find your next source of booze. Circle of Stars also makes a fun drunk: when they see stars, you see them too.
@@carsonrush3352I went way of drunken fist and spore druid. The symbiotic entity adds extra damage plus with the drunks ability to disengage after striking you become great at hit and run. And If they chase you you have halo of spores to attack with. Plus I'd you take the extended spell list you can cast enlarge/ reduce and stack more damage
I think that way of the fist monk and soul knife rogue would be a really interesting RP as well as functional combination for a Matrix-inspired character build. Being able to gain temporary proficiency in any skill would be pretty useful.
You wouldn't think any sorc/warlock/wizard would be an improvement to monk, but like Kelly said in the other video, multiclassing is ALWAYS a plus on monk, because then at least you don't have to be a monk!
The relative advantage of staying single-class monk depends largely on how many combats your table typically has between short rests. If you only have one or two, then you are probably correct that six ki points is sufficient. More than that, and you'll find yourself rationing your ki quite a lot.
I think that's what makes Rogue an S tier multiclass for Monks. All of their core abilities require zero resources, and you get them early on, so even if you run out of Ki, you're still doing three attacks at baseline, plus 3d6 sneak attack (assuming Monk 6, Rogue 5). So that's 6d6 a round, plus ability and magic weapon mods for three of those, plus whatever other freebees the Rogue is giving you.
Gloom stalker ranger, shadow monk bugbear gets an amazing first round with dread ambusher and surprise attack. In the dark, those first 5 attacks with the additional +2d6, plus d4 damage to each hit are all made with advantage. In our current campaign, we are assaulting a cavern full of Duergar and they don't use any light at all, so a gloom stalker is 100% invisible to them.
Battlemaster fighter/ kensei Monk was one of the best characters I’ve ever played mainly used throwing daggers. Favourite moment was disarming a barbarian boss and stole their axe leaving them to only punch the rest of the battle
In contrast to the other non-wisdom spellcasters, the wizard can be boosted with one uncommon magic item. The Headband of Intellect means you only have to get that 13 to multiclass into then have a +4 with the item making the Monk/Bladesinger dip really strong. A lot of campaigns that start around the 4th or 5th level usually start with the ability to come with an uncommon magic item. Bladesinger is the standout with Bladesong boosting all the abilities a Monk would want but Diviation or War Magic could be interesting for a 2 level dip or onwards. Wizards also get a bunch of first levels spells that boost the Monk loadout. Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb Elements, Mage Armor, and Silvery Barbs to name a few.
The same can be said about the Bonk or Barbarian build, in getting Gauntlets of Orge power meaning you can spend ASI on feats or on Con/Wis boosts. Since low levels you use the Gauntlets and if you get to higher levels swap it with Belts of Giant Strength. Obviously not the best multiclasses but the option to use uncommon magic items to fill the gap make them better in my mind then the Charisma caster builds.
Regarding Barbarian Monks, Loxodons are also a good play as a means of solving the AC problem. Focus on Str and Con primarily to stay tanky, and get some Wis bumps when you can. Also, finding Bracers of Defense is basically mandatory.
Excellent, I've been waiting for this video. The Monk is by far my favorite class and I was always a little bummed that it seemed to be the "forgotten child" in any publication.
One thing about Bard - Jack of All Trades and Daimond Soul is a sick combo, even if you rarelly get to see it. Also, Bladesinger's signature ability stacks on Unarmed Defense. Bladesinger/Drunken Master is a sick combo.
A bit of encouragement for those looking to make those corner cases for spellcaster-monks: spells that don’t require a save or attack roll can make your martial arts ridiculous. Shield. Haste. Heroism. Holy Weapon. Freedom of Movement. Misty Step. Use that Cutting Words feature from Bard to reduce an opponent’s grapple/trip resistance roll. Lots of room to play!
Great stuff as always! One comment with the bard multi class though. If you get a bard subclass, then go eloquence. That way you can lower enemy’s saves to help your stunning strikes hit better.
I know most people rank 'Spirit Shroud' behind 'Spirit Guardians', but when you can make 3 or 4 attacks per round, the extra die per hit (or 2 or 3 die for upcast) of 'Shroud' can outpace 'Guardians' on damage, and it doesn't rely on DC.
I had been waiting on this episode since this series started. It didn’t disappoint! Seeing yalls excitement for some of these options was fantastic and worth every moment of watching. Great Monk video!
Greetings Monty and Kelly, I have been a follower of your UA-cam channel for several years now, and I wanted to start by saying thank you for all of your amazing content. After watching your subclass review on Frizban's Treasury of Dragons, and acknowledging the absolute disappointment you both felt towards the Way of the Ascendant Dragon Monk, I felt inspired to attempt a revision of the subclass. I will admit, I am a complete novice when it comes to DnD, as I only picked up playing it just over a year ago. However, through the limited experience I've had playing it, and through watching several other experienced content creators (such as yourselves), I feel confident in showing what I've created to you both. At most, all I am looking for from you both is the joy that you inspired someone to take chances and try making something new and fun. I truly hope you find my interpretation to be satisfactory. And please (if you would feel so inclined) give feedback and/or play test it (this goes for anyone who took the time to read this as well!). Without any further waiting, here is my revision: 3rd lvl: Draconic Disciple You learn to speak Draconic. Draconic Aura: As a free Action, you may alter your physical appearance to a more draconic exterior: patches of skin, hair (and/or fur) transition into dragon scales, small horns sprout from your body (they cannot be treated as weapons, your discretion as to where), and your eyes transform into piercing, glowing incarnations of an ancient dragon's eyes (your choice of color). While in this form, you gain Advantage on any Intimidation checks and disadvantage on any Persuasion checks. During your transformation, you can use a Bonus Action to force a number of creatures within 20ft of you to make a Wisdom Saving Throw (8 + your proficiency bonus + WIS modifier) or become Frightened of you for one round. The number of creatures you can target with this effect is half your current pool of Ki points (rounded down, minimum of 1), and can be used a number of times per long rest equal to one quarter your current pool of Ki points (rounded down, minimumof 1), as your Ki energy is tied to your dragonic powers. This appearance lasts until you wish to end it, and cannot be ended by anything other than your will. Fang's of the Dragon: Whenever you make an unarmed melee attack your fists are shrouded in the aura of a biting dragon's head. You may choose to transform your melee strikes into a draconic element of your choice (lightning, poison, acid, fire, or cold). You can only have one element active per your turn. When you reach level 6 you may add one D4 elemental damage (chosen from the aforementioned list) to each of your unarmed strikes (the extra damage cannot be added when using Flurry of Blows, but you can make Flurry of Blows share the same elemental damage); this number increases to a D6 at 10th level, a D8 at 14th level, and a D10 at 18th level. Breath of the Dragon: As an attack action, you can breathe an elemental attack (your choice of lightning, poison, acid, fire, or cold) in either a 20ft. cone or a 5ft. by 30ft. line (HIT/DC: 8 + your proficiency bonus + WIS modifier). On a hit, the creature(s) receives two D6 of the chosen damage. This damage increases by two D6 at 11th level, and again at 17th level. Alternatively, if you spend 1 Ki point, you can make this attack as a bonus action. Draconic Wisdom: Your draconic aura precedes you. While not in your transformed state, you have an abundance of luck during social interactions. During any Deception, Incite, Performance, or Persuasion check you may spend 1 Ki point to add one D4 to the roll (max of 2 Ki points per check). On a failed check using 2 Ki points, you regain 1 back. 6th level: The Vrtra Awakens: While in your transformed state you now grow draconic wings, gaining the following benefits: You have a flying speed equal to your movement speed. You can only maintain flight for a time equal to your current pool of Ki points, from the moment you transformed, × 1 minute (you cannot fly if you have no Ki points). Expending Ki points does not reduce your flight time (unless you transform again before regaining Ki points). When receiving damage, you can shield yourself with your wings as a reaction, reducing the total damage you recieve by half. Every time you do this, roll a DC 12 CON save. On a failure, your wings succumb to too much damage to fly (although you can still use your reaction to shield yourself). Using your wings this way after failing the CON save now reduces any damage you recieve by one-quarter instead of half. You may use this reaction a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and it resets on a long rest. 11th level: Wrathful Wyrm: While transformed, powerful draconic aura erupts from you, and your presence on the battlefield cannot be ignored. As a bonus action, choose one creature within a 20ft radius of you (not one you are currently attacking). While you are focused attacking another creature, the chosen creature in range becomes Paralyzed, stricken with fear watching your distructive onslaught. You can only use this bonus action a number of times equal to half your current pool of Ki points (rounded down) and resets when you regain your Ki points. 17th level: A Leviathan Unleashed: Your draconic transformation is now complete. While transformed, dragon scales now cover your entire body and the spectral, shadowy image of an adult dragon shrouds your presence. You gain the following benefits: You can add your CON modifier to your AC. Your flying time has no limit. Using the wing shield trait now requires a DC 8 CON to succeed. On a failure, you still recieve all aforementioned penalties. As a bonus action you can expend 8 Ki points. For 2 rounds, you command your dragon to make a multi-attack (no breath or legendary actions) using the statblock from an adult red dragon (no verbal command is required, as the dragon is a visual representation of your spirit and obeys your thoughts). You do not need to expend more Ki points or your bonus action to command on the 2nd round. The dragon is fixed to your position but maintains its appropriate reach for each bite/claw (no tail) attack, and is completely invulnerable to all damage. While you are commanding your spectral dragon, your breath weapon attack increases by an additional two D6. And with that, this is my best attempt to creatively buff and add flavor/character to an otherwise struggling class in this beloved game. I truly hope you both will be just as joyful for the inspiration you gave me, and that this revision might also inspire you in your creative ways. All the best and stay cool dudes.
Yeah I did Way of Mercy/Peace Domain in a long campaign I was in and it was really really solid as a sort of "soft touch" battlefield balancer, but also with a lot of out of combat role playing utility. I actually think Peace Domain Cleric is a great subclass to mix with Monk in general, your very presence is subtly constantly buffing your friends and yourself.
Lol something everyone seems to forget is that all creatures have access to unarmed strikes. Like shove, unarmed strike is a general action. So the moon druid monk, kung-fu panda build totally works just fine. You just have to choose between using the multiple attacks of your animal form or the unarmed strikes, (for a bear just imagine it as making a fist so you don't do slashing damage). Also don't limit yourself, why stick with kung-fu bear when you could be a kung-fu giraffe! 😁
A Monk/Alchemist might be the only way I'd play an Alchemist in the first place, but no thanks to either class. I played a Way of Open Hand Monk/Circle of Spores Druid and found it to be insanely awesome! I danced in and out of combat messing up my enemies and avoiding any real damage. It's a great combo. Beyond Cleric or Druid, I don't find much synergy with any other class (Fighter is okay, but nothing special). Interesting video, guys!
Shadow Monk 6, Rogue 5... get devils sight through the eldritch feat, shadow step to your opponent and always have advantage to sneak attack on your turn. xD
Monk with a barbarian dip could work with the Astral Self, because they get to use their Wisdom in place of Strength. Might not be 100% RAW, but most DMs would probably allow it.
It doesn't quite make sense. The STR bonus to attacks from the barbarian comes from the brutality of their onslaught, from them embracing their near-mindless rage, whereas the projection of astral limbs from the monk stems from an acutely measured control of one's will; body vs mind. I can see how you could try to justify the concept if you specifically made a character whose rage is flavored a certain way so as to bridge the two aspects (a psychotic character whose rage/projection is a manifestation of their alter egos?), but otherwise, I'd feel like this is quite a stretch!
@@TerraDoctorI mean flavor yes, but mechanically it doesn't have to make sense, to work. However, i still think it wouldn't work. Rage Damage only occurs with Str based attacks... And Astral Self would make it a Wis based attacks, so it automatically disqualifies it.
@@Rakkun_Streak That's my thinking as well. Although, considering WotC thinks it's ok to make Strength-based Perception checks (as per the new Barbarian UA), who knows what the intention is.
@@TheRawrnstuff Yeah, but at least they are making it very clear it works. And thematically, it can make sense. In the middle of your rage, your instincts and senses are hyperfocused, you can survey the battlefield in a broad spectrum, smell, sight, and contact. Makes sense that your perception is heightened. Stealth on the other hand.... Well, it's a bit hard to explain.
i'm really noticing how many times Monty says "under your belt" in this episode. it's extra funny that he is not trying to make a pun, yet it's such a good pun for monks.
Love the video as always! Though I think you Dudes are underselling the Barbarian MC a bit - disregarding bonus damage, Rage granting resistance to the most common damage types in the game helps partially sidestep Monk MADness, making you more survivable as a front liner with a d8 hit die with a probably middling CON score. - Rage also granting advantage on Strength Checks and Saves is also a great way to be good at those things without much/any investment. Taking Skill Expert for expertise in athletics suddenly makes you fantastic in all things Strength that you weren’t already replacing with Dexterity or Wisdom even if your modifier is only +1 from the score of 13 you need to MC - you get proficiency in all martial weapons, which pairs nicely with the Dedicated Weapon feature from Tasha’s. Instant access to some versatile weapons’ d10 damage dice is great and can help partly assuage that loss of round 1 damage by opting to Rage instead of use martial arts. - using the Barbarian’s d12 hit dice on short rests after encounters where Rage would’ve been the right choice in hindsight is going to (on average) get you more health back than the Monks d8. It’s not much, but since the only hit point that really matters is the last one, every little bit helps. - Barbarian + Monk = “Bonk.” You are named for the thing you do. Immaculate linguistic synergy! As an example build, you could play a Kalashtar and go the Way of the Astral Self to primarily focus on Wisdom instead of Dexterity, take skill expert for athletics expertise to round off an odd stat at 4, and after going to at least level 6 to get extra attack and the subclass feature, fitting in 3 levels of Bear Totem Barb to get damage resistance to everything under the Sun. On the off chance something gets within reach to actually hit you, you’re going to be amazing at knocking them back away again, and since you get Reach with your Astral arms, you don’t really even need the Mobile feat as long as you have decent positioning.
@@Awoken0 W/Dex being 3rd stat on Point Buy it'll be 14 at 11(which seems to be their ending point & assuming no boosting items or DM bonuses) it's a 16/17 AC (depending on race). At that point in a campaign--hopefully--you've either found Ring/Bracer/Cloak of Protection of some degree to boost it or some other method of staying out of damage range. Plus, Arms give you an extra 5 foot reach w/45 movement speed, so you can stay out of a lot of melee combat range.
@@jrg305 Arms are 1 Ki point as a bonus action, and do the same damage as hitting with a flurry of Blows on a failed Dex Save, just no crit chance. Changes damage type to Force which isn't highly resisted, and now you can attempt to stun at a greater range.
@@astutheit so I'm playing a 7th level way of mercy in dungeon of the mad mage. I can say that as much hype as stunning strike gets, it is a waste. My monk is custom lineage for the mobile feat and darkvision, has a 20 dex and +2 wis and con. My ki save DC is 13. Stunning strike is a con save. Most monsters with perhaps the exception of a caster or archer will have high con saves. It is the worst save. I have yet to land one stunning strike. Whereas I can save my ki for flurry of blows which usually does damage and will kill faster, or I can heal. The use of ki for other monks will often be to use step of the wind to disengage or dash or patient defense to dodge to save health, the main limited stat on monks. The hand of harm is also usually a waste because it can do as low as 3 damage, compared to flurry which can do a minimum of 6 with your dex mod at 5. It's mainly there for the poisoned condition when you get that, which also is highly immune among monsters and does little to casters. Monks actually are good at shoving prone more often than they land stunning strike since you can attempt it once for free after extra attack (should take proficiency in athletics and acrobatics) and still use a bonus action martial arts attack. That helps other melee who have great weapon master that aren't barbarians who have advantage already. Speaking of limited health. Periapt of wound closure is a gold star uncommon item for a monk. The double health recovery for spending hit dice is amazing.
I love this series so much I was checking the channel to make sure i hadn't missed the next episode yet! Thank you for all the hard work, oh ye dudes of the dungeon!
This video makes me want to see them react to Matt Mercer's way of the cobalt soul from their taldori reborn adventure guide. It has some pretty strong abilities that I would like to hear their thoughts on.
This video came at the perfect time for me, just started an Out of the Abyss campaign last week as a Half-drow Shadow Monk. We can only multiclass one class and 3 levels at max, so I'm debating if I take Gloomstalker at ranger 3 or Assassin at rogue 3 after Monk 6
Why is that ruling there? Dose the DM just not like multiclassing or are they trying to not let people make broken builds? Also I think Gloomstalker/monk is going to be better at ambush than assassin. plus you don't have to take a feat to not have to deal with darkness not being able to see through it.
@@Mary_Studios i guess its something like that, its just a table rule and I didnt pay much mind to it. I'll play the first 6 levels as monk and then see what is best, but I'm leaning more towards the gloomstalker. Also I dont think they can see through magical darkness
Love this episode! I've been watching you guys for about 2 months and really enjoying it. One thing you missed is that with just ONE level of fighter you can also get Unarmed Fighting style and have d8 as your Monk's unarmed damage. Otherwise you have to wait until 11th level to get that much damage with unarmed fighting. That's pretty sweet in addition to getting Action Surge at Level 2 and Battlemaster Maneuvers at Level 3 as you mentioned.
Hey there! I'm looking forward for that combination, but I wanto to make sure before I do, so how would you start there, is it better to start as a ranger or as a monk? and at which level would you start to multiclass them if you start with either class? and what is your opinion as to what would be better to start with? Sorry, those are a few questions there, I hope you can help with this one, thanks a lot.
If you want to get Leonardo, it's better to take two weapon fighting style and use two short swords in place of 2 wakizashi. Taking dueling fighting style gives you Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon or insert your favorite wuxia film here.
Absolutely love these multiclass guides! I have to say that for a relative DnD noob it can be difficult to follow when you are comparing particular items/specifics classes or spells. I think it might help me, and others, if there was something visual on the screen which shows what is being compared. As I said, really love the videos and you have given me so many ideas for my current Monk
The dejected statement at 42:09 "they shoulda given the monk some other ability [at mid levels]. Like what, you get an ability that's like 'You don't get sick?'" had me cry laughing! The monk suffers so greatly at catching up to other classes, it's practically comical. No wonder OneD&D's playtests are holding it back this long, they must be building it from the ground up
What are you talking about? Evasion, the ability to end any charm or frighten if you failed the initial save, immunity to disease and poison, the ability to walk up walls and fluids, the ability to speak to anything. These are all great abilities and then there is the monastic upgrade and asis in there.
I’m putting on for the swarmkeeper ranger here it’s one of the most slept on subclasses imo. You pair that with a monk and you’re getting a damage boost on every atk as opposed to just on the first round of combat.
Regarding the Monk/spores druid/ranger/fighter action surge, it will "only" give you 6 attacks. Action surge only gives you an additional action, not an additional action + bonus action, so it would be 2x2 weapon attacks + 2 unarmed attacks with flurry of blows. Still good dmg if you use the tasha's ability to make longsword a monk weapon and spores + hunters mark up with 4xd10+4x2d6 for the weapon attacks + 2x3d6 for flurry...
31:00 @dungeondudes: if you were to home brew a mechanic (or change the default mechanic) of how multiclassing with classes of different ability score core values, what would you do? For example (and it's an example, not balanced) : you can chose one other modifier between the main spell-related 3 of charisma, wisdom or intelligence to make it equal to your main one only during battles). Or maybe you would make it so that, lorewise, you have been training and learning so hard with multi classing that you are able to once per short rest, meditate and channel your teachings to use certain skills or spells and declare your main spell modifier for the day (cha, int, wis for example) and now this is your main spellcasting ability. but using your own knowledge and skills vs what was taught to single class people and add your main charisma mod for example to intelligence based attacks. HOWEVER, every time you swap back and forth between modifiers to apply this too, your main modifier is reduced by 1. This makes it so that, when you really need to, let's say you have 20 ability score, so 5 modifier. you can do an intelligence based attack for that +5 mod however now you're locked into intelligence based attacks and if you switch it to wisdom or ever go back to your core charisma modifier, it drops by -1, every time you switch, you get weaker because the back of all trades is getting distracted and blending techniques takes a toll on your focus and memory. And the only way to return your original modifier back to 5 is to gain a +1 mod recovery on a short rest and a full recovery on a long rest (same rulings for elves etc). This also can apply for strength, dexterity and constitution. An example of this would be a demon slayer SPOILER below: . . . . . . like how some hashira can evolve a breathing style to be more of their own, or how tanjiro can tap into other breathing styles to adapt those techniques and blend them to his own style, even if they're not the perfect version. So for example, so while tanjiro hinokami is strong offensively and water breathing is strong defensively, switching forcibly between them would make falter and unable to perform properly and needs a short rest (eyyy) and if he blends the techniques together then his water attacks are a bit stronger (but not as strong as full hinokami) but they are faster and smoother then hinokami. But it may not be enough to kill the demon or make that big jump or leap etc ( which explains the -1 mod ability). Until you recover fully and then you can go back to either doing water breathing or either doing hinokami but now it's a new fight with new challenges. This is my way of homebrewing it a bit and it allows for people to toy around with incompatible classes or not get pigeon holed into a specific race due to ability scores and focus more on being creative, planning and enjoying the game with more options.
I would really love to see multiclass rankings and build guides for your class and subclasses from Sebastian Crow's Guide to Drakkenheim. I want one of these for the Apothecary!
Something to think about with adding spellcating to the monk is having the option to cast Silvery Barbs on an enemy creature who succeeded your stunning strike saving throw. And something not mentioned in the Wizard discussion was the Divination Wizard and Portent for only a 2 level dip.
I was playing in an ebberon game that ended recently. I had made a back up character I got to play who was a Monk/artificer. I started it at lvl 9 and was a kensai with the artificer subclass Mastermaker. It basically gives me a battlefist that does a d10. I had built with a good dex, wisdom and intelligence with an ok con. I had a blast and was happy to be able to get him up to lvl 17.
Ya respectfully I was really confused by the community rankings. I've played a yuan-ti pureblood shadow monk 6, gloomstalker 4 in a high magic heist one shot and it was INCREDIBLE. With some granted magic items and level up feats, I ended up with an AC of 21, +10 to initiative, passive perception and insight of 20, +12 or 13 to stealth...and that's not even including the class features. Thanks for the commentary and perspective as always, Month and Kelly!
I'm playing a plasmoid mercy monk 5 / rogue 1 in a spelljammer campaign right now and I absolutely love it! One thing you didn't mention that I think pushes monk / rogue up to S+ is expertise. I got expertise in perception and it's basically the observant feat (which left me open to take mobile early).
I actually did a Monk/Cleric multi dip like the guys described. He's currently 15, and I went 12 Sun Soul Monk, and 3 Light Cleric. They both synergize from a lore perspective really amazingly, since both are about fire and light, and I had him be a student of a monastic order that followed a god of light. I ended up having his monk side being the focus of damage and skills, with majority of the cleric spells being utility/healing since he kept being the party's second tank and second healer. It worked surprisingly well, and he's probably my favorite D&D character I've made in 5e so far
For our new Camapi (starts on LVL 6) Im using a Way of the Sunsoul monk plus a Light Domain Cleric. Fokus on Dex and Wis. Basicly im a "ranged" Spell slinig Monk that ceeps you in play with Stun-Strike and does a bit of Support and DMG. And its funny to play
One of the fun things about the Monk/Ranger multi class is that you can go Fey Wanderer and then be good in social situations thanks to your high Wisdom. And you'll probably take the Druidic Warrior fighting style so you can use shilleghli. The Kensei Ranger combo is also great as the Kensei turns the Longbow into a Monk weapon letting you Stunning Strike with it.
I had a Fey Wanderer Ascendant Dragon character once, who was a lot of fun. I picked Ascendant Dragon for character reasons, but it had an unintended combo of giving me really decent social skills with fey wanderer and letting me reroll failed persuasion/intimidate checks with ascendant dragon!
Looking forward to the triple build video for the shenanigans. For a Ranger dip, if you don't want to go Gloom, Fey Wanderer is a decent dip. Add another d4 of damage that is psychic and you get to add your Wisdom to Charisma skill checks so you expand into social skills which Monks and Rangers aren't known for.
I remember playing a Monk/Ranger. I named him Walker just for the Chuck Norris reference. I made it as a joke but ended up having a lot of fun. It was more viable than I originally thought it would be.
One of the important points for Cleric, Druid, and Ranger multi classing means that there is always an option to be SAD. When talking about the fighter, it’s also important to remember about unarmed fighting. While your martial arts die increases slowly, unarmed fighting will take you up to a d8 immediately which will be as good or better than your martial arts for most of your career.
Another thing about druid: you can do a 2 level dip in stars druid and go wisdom focused with the cantrip or astral self monk. Stars druid gives you free castings of guiding bolt equal to your proficiency modifier every long rest (so it continues to scale even if you don’t get more druid levels), and you also have the archer constellation. Gives you a really nice ranged potion and good out of combat wildshape utility as well. It’s worth noting you can activate your astral arms while wild shaped and start putting out silly damage even while you’re a squirrel or something.
Not mentioned on the Monk/Rogue combo, but more fuel to that S tier fire, the Rogue Sneak Attack gets a lot out of Focused Aim, which almost guarantees landing a hit with a Finesse weapon. Focused Aim doesn't require you to be using a monk weapon either, so strictly speaking, you could Focused Aim and Sneak Attack with, say, a cannon. (Can confirm, Shadow Monk/Assassin Herengon has some really insane surprise round damage output. If your GM loves their "it's just one really big guy" combats, this combo will melt it completely)
I’m playing a Monk (open hand) 6 / Light Cleric 6 right now in a campaign that’s been going since Level 1. A really fun character to play - similar to, but more powerful and versatile than, a Sun Soul or Four Elements monk. My DM has done a really good job helping me build a story, and there are some surprise synergies. Definitely feeling that crowded bonus action problem but more than makes up for it in being able to shift strategies and get exactly where she’s needed for support. Also can confirm it feels cool as hell to be kicking people around in the middle of a swirl of spirit guardians (rings of purple flame, in her case).
I'm happy to see Spores Druid get so much love in the multi-class videos. Spores is my favorite Druid subclass, but it definitely got ragged on and trashed in the "pure" subclass ranking video for Druid. So it's nice seeing it get more positive attention somewhere.
the fun thing about a monk druid is that, rules as written, you can still get your bonus wisdom ac and use unarmed strikes and flurry of blows as normal. A druids wildshape doesn't affect your mental scores so you can get a ton of bonus hp while still keeping 15-17 ac and become a solid damage sponge. You can also attack using your martial arts dice with your beasts dex or stregnth mod as the natural weapons of the beast give you an option to attack with, but don't limit any other attacks. You basically get a super high hp tank monk and only loose a small amount of damage output. And thats without the benefit of any spells you take
I haven't been able to go through all of the comments, so I'm not sure if someone else may have mentioned this already. I found it neat that you considered trying to make the TMNT as munk multiclass characters. While this does make some sense based on how they are prorated, a more realistic or appropriate versions would come from the Rogue multiclass video since ninjas are technically a type of assassin.
In the newly released bg3 game the barbarian rage dmg does not require strength and can work off of dex as well. So with the changes to monk weapons being any weapon you are proficient in with ni restrictions makes it a lot better option. 3 levels of barb going eagle heart for mobility in diving strike and disadvantage to enemies making opertunuty attack plus ki-less step of the wind once per rage is amazing.
The only way to make a decent monk paladin is to get really lucky with your dice rolls with manual rolls. If you can make it work you've got a monk that can smite with your fists. I made on and have to have at least a 14 to make it work. His name was William skull splitter
Ive been waiting for this since the artificer video came out. Im playing CoS with a 4th level monk with plans to take a one level dip into peace cleric. Looking at the other options, I'm so excited to try out monk ranger and monk barbarian!
One of my players is doing a barb monk build which is based around sumo wrestling and grappling. He’s a Giff so he gets advantage on athletics checks. He took crusher and way of the open hand so that once per turn he can potentially push someone 20 feet away. Not the most powerful but it’s definitely been a fun build to go up against!
24:39-i am currently playing my first game of 5e. I decided to play the monk as a challenge. Being an old school power gamer and all that, I took variant human and the mobility feat without hesitation. I have so much freedom of movement on the battlefield...and I do exactly what you describe. I get the most hdywtdt in the group...now i just got to get my dm to stop redescribing my visuals in terms of a streetfighter game. I think i am going to make my descriptions more anime like. Hopefully if it more closely matches the tone he is thinking of, he won't change it all that much.
It seems like the 5e culture doesn't favor much battlefield movement. I don't get it. That's part of the fun. If I wanted to stand in one spot for most of the combat and just attack, I would play WOW.
Barbarian Monk is also best cos you portmanteau it to "The Bonk". Any build who's name is also what it does is S+ tier!
Wow you're here early!
I still want to play one. Long Death/ Bear if I can get that high level.
Said like a man who knows Monks 😎
You will be happy to know that I have done that very exact thing, and I'm thrilled to hear you say it.
Bonk go bonk.
what ab the Mighter
I want the final, summary episode of all this multiclassing series to have Colby as a guest star😎
That's gonna be a long video
@@alexjulius203good!!
Agreed
Please!
Yes please
I suspect the community love for fighter comes from the unarmed fighting style, which gives monks a d8 for fists up to 11 levels early.
It’s true, for short to medium length campaigns it simply elevates a monk to the level of damage they only would have during mid to late game
Due to that a Barbarian with Fighting Initiate for unarmed fighting sounds like the better build since they have good HP with AC based on Con+Dex rather than Wis+Dex, which will just give you more HP as you raise your con and Rage grants you, higher damage and more defensive power, and with reckless attack you can grapple at advantage to activate the unarmed fightings second effect to cause more damage.
Unarmed fighting style sucks for monk.
(outside of very specific one-shot levels).
It ONLY gives you a d8 if your hands are empty. If you're holding a weapon (like a d10 longsword, which you can make a monk weapon thanks to the fighter dip giving you proficiency and the dedicated weapon feature from Tasha's) then your punches will only be d6 from unarmed fighting style. And by monk 5 your unarmed strikes were already d6 from the martial arts die.
Dueling is unironically a higher damage fighting style for monk from monk level 5 onward. Obviously there are limitations to dueling. You have to wield the longsword in one hand, so d8 instead of d10, and yes dueling doesn't benefit your punches at all, but d8+2 stays a relevant damage boost over d10 when you hit level 5. Unarmed fighting style does not stay relevant.
Know what else is a better fighting style for monk from level 5 onwards? Great Weapon Fighter. You can weild a longsword in two hands, which qualifies it for the great weapon fighting style, letting you reroll 1s and 2s. d10 reroll 1s and 2s is a little worse than dueling on a monk, but not by much! (Like...0.3% damage difference between d8+2 dueling and d10 reroll 1s and 2s once crits are accounted for). And certainly great weapon fighter is better than unarmed fighting style from level 5 onwards!
Not saying you should dip fighter for dueling fighting style or great weapon fighting style on your monk. They...are not great. What I am saying is that they're just overall better than unarmed fighting style. Better from level 5 onwards. (And frankly, only a little bit worse from monk 1-4). Unarmed fighting style is just overall very, very weak.
A monk dipping fighter for unarmed fighting style...it's okay in some very specific one-shots. Like you could justify it for a level 2 one-shot, or a level 3 one-shot. I don't think it's a good dip above level 3.
No it’s actually very good if you want to fight unarmed and don’t want to spend 11 levels in monk.
@@AtelierGod A barbarian suffers in mobility, the number of attacks, and wisdom saves (like mind-control effects). The monk features are better suited for someone who hunts down enemy ranged support who wants to keep their distance, rather than for someone in the front lines.
I'd hardly call either a "better build". Depends on what the party needs, really.
God I love it when Monty said “so if you’re starting out as a monk, get out of there!” I seriously lost it and I love monk
I played a Dhampir Shadow monk 7/ Gloomstaker 4 for a one shot. I took the blindfighting fighting style to be able to fight in my own darkness. Faced down a couple of trolls, essentially tanking while my party dealt with others enemies. Had zephyr strike. So much mobility, extra utility, extra expendable resources between ki points and spell slots. It was one of my favorite character builds in over 5 years of playing 5e.
I did that too in an underdark campaign. I was basically unable to be hit and teleporting everywhere
Remembering this for baldurs gate 3...
The Openhand monk + the battle master fighter is what I call the action hero. Punching tripping pushing disarming and all kinds of other action hero stuff.
I hereby dub this build "The Kenshiro" (aka Fist of the North Star). Tell me I'm wrong.
@markberghel275 you're incorrect. Kenshiro is a level 20 wizard with a headband of Intellect and finger of death, power word: k1ll and disintegrate alway prepared
@@jacobhamilton2473 Replace Headband of Intellect with Belt of Storm Giant Strength and and Amulet of Health.
@jacobhamilton2473 wrong again. Kenshiro is simply the DM's overpowered self insert.
@@markberghel275It's more Jackie Chan if you ask me.
I love the ongoing dialogue between The Dudes and D4 of "this combination seems questionable" and "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED". it's honestly so wholesome.
Together these two channels kinda do the same as in engineering
The Dudes in their Rankings do first drafts of class combinations that could be fun
D4 then takes that draft and fills it up to a build
for us all to then use/base our own on
Astral Self + Echo Knight = Stand User.
One dip in War Cleric offers Divine Favor, a Paladin spell that adds damage, so another point to Cleric and one against Paladin.
What is a Stand User?
You don't need to dip for that spell, you could just take a feat, so not really a point for the Cleric.
@@Awoken0 Counterpoint: You’d only get one use from the feat, where the Cleric dip can get you more than one use in addition to other Cleric spells.
@@Hyde_Hill it's a reference to Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
@@Hyde_Hill
It's a JoJo reference.
I love the format where you guys are having a realistic, informed conversation like you do here, which means you change your mind later. It is much better than having you agree behind the scenes beforehand.
People are always forgetting the Swashbuckler. Swashbuckler is an amazing dip for monk. Not only does Fancy Footwork mostly eliminate the need to take mobility, but Rakish Audacity is perfect for the monk, as the monk's role is a backlines assassin (not a front line fighter or picking off weak enemies. That's why they have the mobility features they do) so they'll be away from the rest of the party around enemies that don't want to be beside the monk.
Swashbuckler/Drunken Fist combo? Swashbuckler allows you to evade and dodge one opponent and suffers against crowds, Drunken Fist prefers crowds and doesn't do well against individual enemies. They cover each other well.
@@shadiafifi54 That, or lean into the dueling aspect with kensei
That and sneak attack helps the monk keep up in damage and the Swashbuckler makes sneak attack much more accessible to monks
@@loselot6044not for all monks. Shadow step from the way of the shadow works extremely well because of the teleport and afterwards you have advantage on your next attack
I challenge you guys to take all the S classes and do at video ranking them against each other. It would be cool to how they stack up.
If you don't mind do you mind if I throw a dark horse into this fight? I present to you Wizard Monk bladesinger paired with a kensei monk.
Eh. It won't be as good of a video as you would think. The wizard S classes would be the top, followed by the Fighters (action surge is just too strong), then the Bards (they are too versatile), then the rogues (they are too strong in social and exploration), then everyone else.
ua-cam.com/video/hr9NVMLIbjc/v-deo.html
I think u guys forgot one thing about the fighter dip.... there is a new fighting style on tashas that allow u to get a 1d8 for unarmored attacks if ur are not using any weapon. This allows a monk to start with 1d8 instead of 1d4 right from the beginning
Or you can just take the feat that lets you take it instead.
@@Awoken0 That assumes that you are either Variant Human or are waiting till lv 4 to get that. And Monks usually prefer ASIs over Feats.
I think people highly overrate getting unarmed fighting style tbh. If you get fighter early you delay extra attack and stunning strike and have less Ki. If you get it after having 5 levels, well then you're only turning your d6s into d8s, or a +1 damage on average. I just don't think that's the main appeal. And if you keep leveling monk, then eventually it becomes worthless! And you can't swap unless you get a fighter ASI and your DM is allowing that optional rule (which they most likely are, but it is worth considering!)
This is all not to mention monks can just...use weapons for their main attacks. Swing a quarterstaff and you're doing a d8 anyway.
Not all monks want to use quarter staffs or even weapons at all. The unarmed fighting style is a great way to get lvl 11 monk dmg (which isn’t great anyway but that’s a different discussion). I think people love to underrate things bc it’s makes them feel haughty and superior. D8’s are good and totally worth it if you know - you want to play a monk who feels like a monk.
@@adambielen8996if you’re starting at a low level, yeah
Astral monk lets you shove and grapple with wisdom
Stars Druid let’s you never roll below a 10 on wisdom
So astral monk and stars Druid : go 100% wisdom
I accidentally swapped the monk subclass and the Druid subclass y’all, chill
What part of Star Druid lets you shove and grapple with wisdom?
I'm afraid you are mistaken
I mean you can use wisdom for strength checks but thats the monk part
Star druid's dragon constellation allows you to get a 10 on a die if you roll lower than a 10 on intelligence and wisdom checks along with con saves that involve concentration, so grapple checks would be around 16 at level 5
@evannolen9784 Only for Intelligence, Wisdom checks or Constitution saving throws for concentration.
I’ve been playing a Monk/ Ranger multiclass for two years in a Tomb of Annihilation game and absolutely loving it. Another fun trick is to stun someone, then hit them with Ensnaring Strike-they auto fail the strength save, and then have to burn *another* action the following turn to break out of the vines.
Wait, I never considered this until now. Can you smite with your fists as a monk since they count as a "monk weapon"? Or is this just a "depends on the dm" kinda thing? Also that's pretty damn smart
@@loselot6044I might be wrong but I feel like that's a "depends on your DM" thing kinda like Sneak Attack with your unarmed attacks, since that says it requires a "finesse weapon" which ordinarily doesn't include unarmed attacks but as a Monk it could be argued they are
Nice! I plan on dipping into Ranger with my monk after I hit lvl5 fir story flavor reasons
Any ability that adds damage on every attack is great. One level of Hexblade gets you both Hex and Hexblade’s curse, and on a tougher enemy, where combat takes a lot of rounds, it really ramps up
You're sacrificing your bonus actions, especially with Hexblade cause both Hex and Hexblade's Curse are bonus actions. It would take 2 turns of setup and if the enemy dies then you need to use your bonus action for switching Hex again, so you're giving up more attacks for a bit more damage. You wouldn't really feel the effect of the "ramp up" since most combats end around round 3-4.
@@Awoken0Not a problem because the assumption you are making is the Monk is on the spot and only attacks. While fast monks can’t (usually) fly and are not always able to close thanks to terrain. This is still viable just not always optimal based solely on how the DM sets the battlefield.
@@Awoken0most combats ending in 3-4 turns is weirdly inflated by the prevalence of small little encounters, the sorts of ones you wouldn’t use both hex and hexblades curse in tandem or potentially just neither. Resource management is still your responsibility as a player, and making the judgement call to use the multi round setup is still contingent on you as a player reading the situation
@@Awoken0 thats why you save it for boss fights which tend to last longer. Also you are taking two rounds to set up means you are losing 4 unarmed strikes which is an average of 14 damage (average of 4d6) + 20 dex mod (assuming they have a +5). in the third round you would be dealing an addition average 14 damage (the 4d6 from hex) + 16 damage. making it only a 4 damage net loss than if you just attack and the fight only lasts 3 rounds. which when you are a level 10 party 4 damage is not a big deal at all.
One other thing about the Monk/Druid is your Unarmored Defense and Movement speed increases carry over to your Wildshapes. Just some fun little synergy
Imagine if wildshaping into a gorilla or orangutan let you use your flurry of blows! 😜
Yeah! I built a spider-monk that was actually really solid! Super fast climbing, great stealth. Good ac
@@Grooveworthy Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Monk?
So do astral arms
@@johnhall3570 In general an animal's natural weapons are classed as Simple Melee Weapons. So they count as Monk Weapons, but not for unarmed attacks. In theory Kung Fu Panda can use a bonus action to make an unarmed attack, but it would have to be a butt smash or something other than claw or bite.
I did have an idea for a Druid/Monk. Circle of Spores/Astral Self. Basically a cultivator of funghi who believes that when he dies he'll ascend to the Astral Plane whilst his body becomes food for the detritivores.
i was thinking circle of stars with astral self for theme.. lol
Druid/Monk = Drunk? 🤔
@@johnhall3570, way of the drunken fist with circle of the moon. Now you're a drunk, break dancing bear. Use the Detect Poison and Disease to find your next source of booze.
Circle of Stars also makes a fun drunk: when they see stars, you see them too.
@@carsonrush3352I went way of drunken fist and spore druid. The symbiotic entity adds extra damage plus with the drunks ability to disengage after striking you become great at hit and run. And If they chase you you have halo of spores to attack with. Plus I'd you take the extended spell list you can cast enlarge/ reduce and stack more damage
I think that way of the fist monk and soul knife rogue would be a really interesting RP as well as functional combination for a Matrix-inspired character build. Being able to gain temporary proficiency in any skill would be pretty useful.
You wouldn't think any sorc/warlock/wizard would be an improvement to monk, but like Kelly said in the other video, multiclassing is ALWAYS a plus on monk, because then at least you don't have to be a monk!
Now part of me wonders how a kensei monk would pair with hexblade or bladesinger.
@@insanehiker5587Would be probably be very good... Frees up from taking Mage armor... Gives access to Haste... Nice bonus for Hex as well...
The relative advantage of staying single-class monk depends largely on how many combats your table typically has between short rests. If you only have one or two, then you are probably correct that six ki points is sufficient. More than that, and you'll find yourself rationing your ki quite a lot.
I think that's what makes Rogue an S tier multiclass for Monks. All of their core abilities require zero resources, and you get them early on, so even if you run out of Ki, you're still doing three attacks at baseline, plus 3d6 sneak attack (assuming Monk 6, Rogue 5). So that's 6d6 a round, plus ability and magic weapon mods for three of those, plus whatever other freebees the Rogue is giving you.
Gloom stalker ranger, shadow monk bugbear gets an amazing first round with dread ambusher and surprise attack. In the dark, those first 5 attacks with the additional +2d6, plus d4 damage to each hit are all made with advantage. In our current campaign, we are assaulting a cavern full of Duergar and they don't use any light at all, so a gloom stalker is 100% invisible to them.
Battlemaster fighter/ kensei Monk was one of the best characters I’ve ever played mainly used throwing daggers. Favourite moment was disarming a barbarian boss and stole their axe leaving them to only punch the rest of the battle
Stealing the weapon is hilarious.
In contrast to the other non-wisdom spellcasters, the wizard can be boosted with one uncommon magic item. The Headband of Intellect means you only have to get that 13 to multiclass into then have a +4 with the item making the Monk/Bladesinger dip really strong. A lot of campaigns that start around the 4th or 5th level usually start with the ability to come with an uncommon magic item. Bladesinger is the standout with Bladesong boosting all the abilities a Monk would want but Diviation or War Magic could be interesting for a 2 level dip or onwards. Wizards also get a bunch of first levels spells that boost the Monk loadout. Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb Elements, Mage Armor, and Silvery Barbs to name a few.
The same can be said about the Bonk or Barbarian build, in getting Gauntlets of Orge power meaning you can spend ASI on feats or on Con/Wis boosts. Since low levels you use the Gauntlets and if you get to higher levels swap it with Belts of Giant Strength. Obviously not the best multiclasses but the option to use uncommon magic items to fill the gap make them better in my mind then the Charisma caster builds.
Regarding Barbarian Monks, Loxodons are also a good play as a means of solving the AC problem. Focus on Str and Con primarily to stay tanky, and get some Wis bumps when you can. Also, finding Bracers of Defense is basically mandatory.
I love how you guys are going back and forth with Colby with these videos.
Excellent, I've been waiting for this video. The Monk is by far my favorite class and I was always a little bummed that it seemed to be the "forgotten child" in any publication.
So the monk is the Jan Brady of PC classes?? 😲
One thing about Bard - Jack of All Trades and Daimond Soul is a sick combo, even if you rarelly get to see it. Also, Bladesinger's signature ability stacks on Unarmed Defense. Bladesinger/Drunken Master is a sick combo.
this might be the most fun i’ve seen the dudes have discussing any kind of class haha love it!!!
A bit of encouragement for those looking to make those corner cases for spellcaster-monks: spells that don’t require a save or attack roll can make your martial arts ridiculous. Shield. Haste. Heroism. Holy Weapon. Freedom of Movement. Misty Step. Use that Cutting Words feature from Bard to reduce an opponent’s grapple/trip resistance roll. Lots of room to play!
Great stuff as always! One comment with the bard multi class though. If you get a bard subclass, then go eloquence. That way you can lower enemy’s saves to help your stunning strikes hit better.
As always, your fits are immaculate!
I know most people rank 'Spirit Shroud' behind 'Spirit Guardians', but when you can make 3 or 4 attacks per round, the extra die per hit (or 2 or 3 die for upcast) of 'Shroud' can outpace 'Guardians' on damage, and it doesn't rely on DC.
About the spore druid combo.. you might add Hex or Hunter's Mark via Shadow or Fey touched and do 3d6 per hit.
I had been waiting on this episode since this series started. It didn’t disappoint! Seeing yalls excitement for some of these options was fantastic and worth every moment of watching. Great Monk video!
I like any combination of ranger, rogue, and monk. Works for theme, mechanics, RP, and various combinations of adventuring/combat/storytelling focus.
Greetings Monty and Kelly,
I have been a follower of your UA-cam channel for several years now, and I wanted to start by saying thank you for all of your amazing content.
After watching your subclass review on Frizban's Treasury of Dragons, and acknowledging the absolute disappointment you both felt towards the Way of the Ascendant Dragon Monk, I felt inspired to attempt a revision of the subclass.
I will admit, I am a complete novice when it comes to DnD, as I only picked up playing it just over a year ago. However, through the limited experience I've had playing it, and through watching several other experienced content creators (such as yourselves), I feel confident in showing what I've created to you both.
At most, all I am looking for from you both is the joy that you inspired someone to take chances and try making something new and fun.
I truly hope you find my interpretation to be satisfactory. And please (if you would feel so inclined) give feedback and/or play test it (this goes for anyone who took the time to read this as well!).
Without any further waiting, here is my revision:
3rd lvl: Draconic Disciple
You learn to speak Draconic.
Draconic Aura:
As a free Action, you may alter your physical appearance to a more draconic exterior: patches of skin, hair (and/or fur) transition into dragon scales, small horns sprout from your body (they cannot be treated as weapons, your discretion as to where), and your eyes transform into piercing, glowing incarnations of an ancient dragon's eyes (your choice of color).
While in this form, you gain Advantage on any Intimidation checks and disadvantage on any Persuasion checks.
During your transformation, you can use a Bonus Action to force a number of creatures within 20ft of you to make a Wisdom Saving Throw (8 + your proficiency bonus + WIS modifier) or become Frightened of you for one round. The number of creatures you can target with this effect is half your current pool of Ki points (rounded down, minimum of 1), and can be used a number of times per long rest equal to one quarter your current pool of Ki points (rounded down, minimumof 1), as your Ki energy is tied to your dragonic powers.
This appearance lasts until you wish to end it, and cannot be ended by anything other than your will.
Fang's of the Dragon:
Whenever you make an unarmed melee attack your fists are shrouded in the aura of a biting dragon's head. You may choose to transform your melee strikes into a draconic element of your choice (lightning, poison, acid, fire, or cold). You can only have one element active per your turn.
When you reach level 6 you may add one D4 elemental damage (chosen from the aforementioned list) to each of your unarmed strikes (the extra damage cannot be added when using Flurry of Blows, but you can make Flurry of Blows share the same elemental damage); this number increases to a D6 at 10th level, a D8 at 14th level, and a D10 at 18th level.
Breath of the Dragon:
As an attack action, you can breathe an elemental attack (your choice of lightning, poison, acid, fire, or cold) in either a 20ft. cone or a 5ft. by 30ft. line (HIT/DC: 8 + your proficiency bonus + WIS modifier). On a hit, the creature(s) receives two D6 of the chosen damage. This damage increases by two D6 at 11th level, and again at 17th level. Alternatively, if you spend 1 Ki point, you can make this attack as a bonus action.
Draconic Wisdom:
Your draconic aura precedes you. While not in your transformed state, you have an abundance of luck during social interactions. During any Deception, Incite, Performance, or Persuasion check you may spend 1 Ki point to add one D4 to the roll (max of 2 Ki points per check). On a failed check using 2 Ki points, you regain 1 back.
6th level:
The Vrtra Awakens:
While in your transformed state you now grow draconic wings, gaining the following benefits:
You have a flying speed equal to your movement speed. You can only maintain flight for a time equal to your current pool of Ki points, from the moment you transformed, × 1 minute (you cannot fly if you have no Ki points). Expending Ki points does not reduce your flight time (unless you transform again before regaining Ki points).
When receiving damage, you can shield yourself with your wings as a reaction, reducing the total damage you recieve by half. Every time you do this, roll a DC 12 CON save. On a failure, your wings succumb to too much damage to fly (although you can still use your reaction to shield yourself). Using your wings this way after failing the CON save now reduces any damage you recieve by one-quarter instead of half. You may use this reaction a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and it resets on a long rest.
11th level:
Wrathful Wyrm:
While transformed, powerful draconic aura erupts from you, and your presence on the battlefield cannot be ignored. As a bonus action, choose one creature within a 20ft radius of you (not one you are currently attacking). While you are focused attacking another creature, the chosen creature in range becomes Paralyzed, stricken with fear watching your distructive onslaught. You can only use this bonus action a number of times equal to half your current pool of Ki points (rounded down) and resets when you regain your Ki points.
17th level:
A Leviathan Unleashed:
Your draconic transformation is now complete. While transformed, dragon scales now cover your entire body and the spectral, shadowy image of an adult dragon shrouds your presence. You gain the following benefits:
You can add your CON modifier to your AC.
Your flying time has no limit. Using the wing shield trait now requires a DC 8 CON to succeed. On a failure, you still recieve all aforementioned penalties.
As a bonus action you can expend 8 Ki points. For 2 rounds, you command your dragon to make a multi-attack (no breath or legendary actions) using the statblock from an adult red dragon (no verbal command is required, as the dragon is a visual representation of your spirit and obeys your thoughts). You do not need to expend more Ki points or your bonus action to command on the 2nd round.
The dragon is fixed to your position but maintains its appropriate reach for each bite/claw (no tail) attack, and is completely invulnerable to all damage. While you are commanding your spectral dragon, your breath weapon attack increases by an additional two D6.
And with that, this is my best attempt to creatively buff and add flavor/character to an otherwise struggling class in this beloved game.
I truly hope you both will be just as joyful for the inspiration you gave me, and that this revision might also inspire you in your creative ways.
All the best and stay cool dudes.
Paladin/monk with point buy is actually a really interesting niche case for standard human
PalaMonk?
Monkadin
Jedi
My favorite monk Multicalss would have to be Way of Mercy/ Peace Domain Cleric I think it meshes very well especially if you want to go fast
Yeah I did Way of Mercy/Peace Domain in a long campaign I was in and it was really really solid as a sort of "soft touch" battlefield balancer, but also with a lot of out of combat role playing utility.
I actually think Peace Domain Cleric is a great subclass to mix with Monk in general, your very presence is subtly constantly buffing your friends and yourself.
Lol something everyone seems to forget is that all creatures have access to unarmed strikes. Like shove, unarmed strike is a general action. So the moon druid monk, kung-fu panda build totally works just fine. You just have to choose between using the multiple attacks of your animal form or the unarmed strikes, (for a bear just imagine it as making a fist so you don't do slashing damage). Also don't limit yourself, why stick with kung-fu bear when you could be a kung-fu giraffe! 😁
You guys are my go to UA-cam series when I have any questions!!! Thank you for your time!!!
A Monk/Alchemist might be the only way I'd play an Alchemist in the first place, but no thanks to either class.
I played a Way of Open Hand Monk/Circle of Spores Druid and found it to be insanely awesome! I danced in and out of combat messing up my enemies and avoiding any real damage. It's a great combo.
Beyond Cleric or Druid, I don't find much synergy with any other class (Fighter is okay, but nothing special).
Interesting video, guys!
Nothing with Ranger or Rogue?
@@1rotzy Nothing that I have ever found to be truly effective. If you have had experience otherwise, I'd love to hear about it.
Cleric of Druid? 🤔
@@johnhall3570 ...or... My keyboard sticks around the letters "F", "R", "E", and "D"...🤷♂
Shadow Monk 6, Rogue 5... get devils sight through the eldritch feat, shadow step to your opponent and always have advantage to sneak attack on your turn. xD
My sister in law is playing a shadow monk and she’s contemplating going 3 gloomstalker and 3 assassin. I look forward to seeing this combo out.
Oh no! I haven’t done Fighter yet… now I’m behind! 😅
Monk with a barbarian dip could work with the Astral Self, because they get to use their Wisdom in place of Strength. Might not be 100% RAW, but most DMs would probably allow it.
It doesn't quite make sense. The STR bonus to attacks from the barbarian comes from the brutality of their onslaught, from them embracing their near-mindless rage, whereas the projection of astral limbs from the monk stems from an acutely measured control of one's will; body vs mind.
I can see how you could try to justify the concept if you specifically made a character whose rage is flavored a certain way so as to bridge the two aspects (a psychotic character whose rage/projection is a manifestation of their alter egos?), but otherwise, I'd feel like this is quite a stretch!
@@TerraDoctorI mean flavor yes, but mechanically it doesn't have to make sense, to work.
However, i still think it wouldn't work. Rage Damage only occurs with Str based attacks... And Astral Self would make it a Wis based attacks, so it automatically disqualifies it.
@@Rakkun_Streak That's my thinking as well. Although, considering WotC thinks it's ok to make Strength-based Perception checks (as per the new Barbarian UA), who knows what the intention is.
@@TheRawrnstuff Yeah, but at least they are making it very clear it works. And thematically, it can make sense. In the middle of your rage, your instincts and senses are hyperfocused, you can survey the battlefield in a broad spectrum, smell, sight, and contact. Makes sense that your perception is heightened.
Stealth on the other hand.... Well, it's a bit hard to explain.
i'm really noticing how many times Monty says "under your belt" in this episode. it's extra funny that he is not trying to make a pun, yet it's such a good pun for monks.
it's odd but rather nice that tortles get their own unique class
Love the video as always! Though I think you Dudes are underselling the Barbarian MC a bit
- disregarding bonus damage, Rage granting resistance to the most common damage types in the game helps partially sidestep Monk MADness, making you more survivable as a front liner with a d8 hit die with a probably middling CON score.
- Rage also granting advantage on Strength Checks and Saves is also a great way to be good at those things without much/any investment. Taking Skill Expert for expertise in athletics suddenly makes you fantastic in all things Strength that you weren’t already replacing with Dexterity or Wisdom even if your modifier is only +1 from the score of 13 you need to MC
- you get proficiency in all martial weapons, which pairs nicely with the Dedicated Weapon feature from Tasha’s. Instant access to some versatile weapons’ d10 damage dice is great and can help partly assuage that loss of round 1 damage by opting to Rage instead of use martial arts.
- using the Barbarian’s d12 hit dice on short rests after encounters where Rage would’ve been the right choice in hindsight is going to (on average) get you more health back than the Monks d8. It’s not much, but since the only hit point that really matters is the last one, every little bit helps.
- Barbarian + Monk = “Bonk.” You are named for the thing you do. Immaculate linguistic synergy!
As an example build, you could play a Kalashtar and go the Way of the Astral Self to primarily focus on Wisdom instead of Dexterity, take skill expert for athletics expertise to round off an odd stat at 4, and after going to at least level 6 to get extra attack and the subclass feature, fitting in 3 levels of Bear Totem Barb to get damage resistance to everything under the Sun. On the off chance something gets within reach to actually hit you, you’re going to be amazing at knocking them back away again, and since you get Reach with your Astral arms, you don’t really even need the Mobile feat as long as you have decent positioning.
For the Cleric, go Astral Monk, as the Arms of the Astral Self can use Wis in place of Dex. At that point you need Con and Wis, and that's about it.
You still need DEX for AC with a Monk, unless you start wearing armor and lose some of your Monk abilities.
Also depends on how often you fight. Takes ki to pull out the arms..
@@Awoken0 W/Dex being 3rd stat on Point Buy it'll be 14 at 11(which seems to be their ending point & assuming no boosting items or DM bonuses) it's a 16/17 AC (depending on race). At that point in a campaign--hopefully--you've either found Ring/Bracer/Cloak of Protection of some degree to boost it or some other method of staying out of damage range. Plus, Arms give you an extra 5 foot reach w/45 movement speed, so you can stay out of a lot of melee combat range.
@@jrg305 Arms are 1 Ki point as a bonus action, and do the same damage as hitting with a flurry of Blows on a failed Dex Save, just no crit chance. Changes damage type to Force which isn't highly resisted, and now you can attempt to stun at a greater range.
@@astutheit so I'm playing a 7th level way of mercy in dungeon of the mad mage. I can say that as much hype as stunning strike gets, it is a waste. My monk is custom lineage for the mobile feat and darkvision, has a 20 dex and +2 wis and con. My ki save DC is 13. Stunning strike is a con save. Most monsters with perhaps the exception of a caster or archer will have high con saves. It is the worst save. I have yet to land one stunning strike.
Whereas I can save my ki for flurry of blows which usually does damage and will kill faster, or I can heal. The use of ki for other monks will often be to use step of the wind to disengage or dash or patient defense to dodge to save health, the main limited stat on monks.
The hand of harm is also usually a waste because it can do as low as 3 damage, compared to flurry which can do a minimum of 6 with your dex mod at 5. It's mainly there for the poisoned condition when you get that, which also is highly immune among monsters and does little to casters.
Monks actually are good at shoving prone more often than they land stunning strike since you can attempt it once for free after extra attack (should take proficiency in athletics and acrobatics) and still use a bonus action martial arts attack. That helps other melee who have great weapon master that aren't barbarians who have advantage already.
Speaking of limited health. Periapt of wound closure is a gold star uncommon item for a monk. The double health recovery for spending hit dice is amazing.
Love to see the love being sent back and forth with you guys and Colby!
My Druid / Monk Earth Genasi that can run through his own entangle and use WIS as his primary stat is my favorite multiclass I play ☺️
I love this series so much I was checking the channel to make sure i hadn't missed the next episode yet! Thank you for all the hard work, oh ye dudes of the dungeon!
This video makes me want to see them react to Matt Mercer's way of the cobalt soul from their taldori reborn adventure guide. It has some pretty strong abilities that I would like to hear their thoughts on.
Can't wait to see what crazy build idea Colby pulls out of this video.
This video came at the perfect time for me, just started an Out of the Abyss campaign last week as a Half-drow Shadow Monk. We can only multiclass one class and 3 levels at max, so I'm debating if I take Gloomstalker at ranger 3 or Assassin at rogue 3 after Monk 6
Why is that ruling there? Dose the DM just not like multiclassing or are they trying to not let people make broken builds? Also I think Gloomstalker/monk is going to be better at ambush than assassin. plus you don't have to take a feat to not have to deal with darkness not being able to see through it.
@@Mary_Studios i guess its something like that, its just a table rule and I didnt pay much mind to it. I'll play the first 6 levels as monk and then see what is best, but I'm leaning more towards the gloomstalker. Also I dont think they can see through magical darkness
@@matheusfernandes2102 they can't see through magical darkness but they can take blind fighting which gives them blind sense for 10 ft
Love this episode! I've been watching you guys for about 2 months and really enjoying it. One thing you missed is that with just ONE level of fighter you can also get Unarmed Fighting style and have d8 as your Monk's unarmed damage. Otherwise you have to wait until 11th level to get that much damage with unarmed fighting. That's pretty sweet in addition to getting Action Surge at Level 2 and Battlemaster Maneuvers at Level 3 as you mentioned.
Hey there! I'm looking forward for that combination, but I wanto to make sure before I do, so how would you start there, is it better to start as a ranger or as a monk? and at which level would you start to multiclass them if you start with either class? and what is your opinion as to what would be better to start with? Sorry, those are a few questions there, I hope you can help with this one, thanks a lot.
If you want to get Leonardo, it's better to take two weapon fighting style and use two short swords in place of 2 wakizashi. Taking dueling fighting style gives you Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon or insert your favorite wuxia film here.
Aren't wakizashis short swords already???
Absolutely love these multiclass guides! I have to say that for a relative DnD noob it can be difficult to follow when you are comparing particular items/specifics classes or spells. I think it might help me, and others, if there was something visual on the screen which shows what is being compared. As I said, really love the videos and you have given me so many ideas for my current Monk
The dejected statement at 42:09 "they shoulda given the monk some other ability [at mid levels]. Like what, you get an ability that's like 'You don't get sick?'" had me cry laughing!
The monk suffers so greatly at catching up to other classes, it's practically comical. No wonder OneD&D's playtests are holding it back this long, they must be building it from the ground up
What are you talking about? Evasion, the ability to end any charm or frighten if you failed the initial save, immunity to disease and poison, the ability to walk up walls and fluids, the ability to speak to anything. These are all great abilities and then there is the monastic upgrade and asis in there.
I'm currently multi-classing as a lvl 9, Monk(Kensi) 5/Fighter(Samurai) 4 and it's been really fun
Yes! Perfect timing! I was literally looking for this video yesterday!
I’m putting on for the swarmkeeper ranger here it’s one of the most slept on subclasses imo. You pair that with a monk and you’re getting a damage boost on every atk as opposed to just on the first round of combat.
Regarding the Monk/spores druid/ranger/fighter action surge, it will "only" give you 6 attacks. Action surge only gives you an additional action, not an additional action + bonus action, so it would be 2x2 weapon attacks + 2 unarmed attacks with flurry of blows. Still good dmg if you use the tasha's ability to make longsword a monk weapon and spores + hunters mark up with 4xd10+4x2d6 for the weapon attacks + 2x3d6 for flurry...
31:00 @dungeondudes: if you were to home brew a mechanic (or change the default mechanic) of how multiclassing with classes of different ability score core values, what would you do?
For example (and it's an example, not balanced) : you can chose one other modifier between the main spell-related 3 of charisma, wisdom or intelligence to make it equal to your main one only during battles).
Or maybe you would make it so that, lorewise, you have been training and learning so hard with multi classing that you are able to once per short rest, meditate and channel your teachings to use certain skills or spells and declare your main spell modifier for the day (cha, int, wis for example) and now this is your main spellcasting ability.
but using your own knowledge and skills vs what was taught to single class people and add your main charisma mod for example to intelligence based attacks. HOWEVER, every time you swap back and forth between modifiers to apply this too, your main modifier is reduced by 1. This makes it so that, when you really need to, let's say you have 20 ability score, so 5 modifier. you can do an intelligence based attack for that +5 mod however now you're locked into intelligence based attacks and if you switch it to wisdom or ever go back to your core charisma modifier, it drops by -1, every time you switch, you get weaker because the back of all trades is getting distracted and blending techniques takes a toll on your focus and memory. And the only way to return your original modifier back to 5 is to gain a +1 mod recovery on a short rest and a full recovery on a long rest (same rulings for elves etc).
This also can apply for strength, dexterity and constitution.
An example of this would be a demon slayer SPOILER below:
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like how some hashira can evolve a breathing style to be more of their own, or how tanjiro can tap into other breathing styles to adapt those techniques and blend them to his own style, even if they're not the perfect version.
So for example, so while tanjiro hinokami is strong offensively and water breathing is strong defensively, switching forcibly between them would make falter and unable to perform properly and needs a short rest (eyyy) and if he blends the techniques together then his water attacks are a bit stronger (but not as strong as full hinokami) but they are faster and smoother then hinokami. But it may not be enough to kill the demon or make that big jump or leap etc ( which explains the -1 mod ability). Until you recover fully and then you can go back to either doing water breathing or either doing hinokami but now it's a new fight with new challenges.
This is my way of homebrewing it a bit and it allows for people to toy around with incompatible classes or not get pigeon holed into a specific race due to ability scores and focus more on being creative, planning and enjoying the game with more options.
I would really love to see multiclass rankings and build guides for your class and subclasses from Sebastian Crow's Guide to Drakkenheim. I want one of these for the Apothecary!
Something to think about with adding spellcating to the monk is having the option to cast Silvery Barbs on an enemy creature who succeeded your stunning strike saving throw. And something not mentioned in the Wizard discussion was the Divination Wizard and Portent for only a 2 level dip.
I was playing in an ebberon game that ended recently. I had made a back up character I got to play who was a Monk/artificer. I started it at lvl 9 and was a kensai with the artificer subclass Mastermaker. It basically gives me a battlefist that does a d10. I had built with a good dex, wisdom and intelligence with an ok con. I had a blast and was happy to be able to get him up to lvl 17.
One wizard thing to consider out of combat you have several ritual options including find familar
Good another video! I love the cross overs with Colby on this rankings.
Cant wait to see which of these inspires a build from Colby at D4.
Ya respectfully I was really confused by the community rankings. I've played a yuan-ti pureblood shadow monk 6, gloomstalker 4 in a high magic heist one shot and it was INCREDIBLE. With some granted magic items and level up feats, I ended up with an AC of 21, +10 to initiative, passive perception and insight of 20, +12 or 13 to stealth...and that's not even including the class features.
Thanks for the commentary and perspective as always, Month and Kelly!
I'm playing a plasmoid mercy monk 5 / rogue 1 in a spelljammer campaign right now and I absolutely love it! One thing you didn't mention that I think pushes monk / rogue up to S+ is expertise. I got expertise in perception and it's basically the observant feat (which left me open to take mobile early).
Dragonborn drunk monk bear barb with grappler feat is a lot of fun. I played him as a luchador
I actually did a Monk/Cleric multi dip like the guys described. He's currently 15, and I went 12 Sun Soul Monk, and 3 Light Cleric. They both synergize from a lore perspective really amazingly, since both are about fire and light, and I had him be a student of a monastic order that followed a god of light. I ended up having his monk side being the focus of damage and skills, with majority of the cleric spells being utility/healing since he kept being the party's second tank and second healer. It worked surprisingly well, and he's probably my favorite D&D character I've made in 5e so far
For our new Camapi (starts on LVL 6) Im using a Way of the Sunsoul monk plus a Light Domain Cleric. Fokus on Dex and Wis. Basicly im a "ranged" Spell slinig Monk that ceeps you in play with Stun-Strike and does a bit of Support and DMG. And its funny to play
I was DM for a monk/spores druid. I can say he was pretty cool. He did take mostly druid levels I will admit, but he was pretty good.
One of the fun things about the Monk/Ranger multi class is that you can go Fey Wanderer and then be good in social situations thanks to your high Wisdom. And you'll probably take the Druidic Warrior fighting style so you can use shilleghli.
The Kensei Ranger combo is also great as the Kensei turns the Longbow into a Monk weapon letting you Stunning Strike with it.
I had a Fey Wanderer Ascendant Dragon character once, who was a lot of fun. I picked Ascendant Dragon for character reasons, but it had an unintended combo of giving me really decent social skills with fey wanderer and letting me reroll failed persuasion/intimidate checks with ascendant dragon!
Self correction, Stunning Strike is melee only. Deft Strike is with any Kensei weapon, so extra ranged damage when you want.
When I first got the 5E players handbook I immediately fell in love with the Shadow Monk/Rogue Assassin and can't wait to play it
Looking forward to the triple build video for the shenanigans.
For a Ranger dip, if you don't want to go Gloom, Fey Wanderer is a decent dip. Add another d4 of damage that is psychic and you get to add your Wisdom to Charisma skill checks so you expand into social skills which Monks and Rangers aren't known for.
I remember playing a Monk/Ranger. I named him Walker just for the Chuck Norris reference. I made it as a joke but ended up having a lot of fun. It was more viable than I originally thought it would be.
Im playing a Tortle monk and ive been going back and forth on what subclass to pick next level. All of these suggestions are great.
Another Point for Dronks (Monk Druids) is unarmored Defence, getting to add that Wis to your AC bumps up some of your wildshapes surviability A LOT
One of the important points for Cleric, Druid, and Ranger multi classing means that there is always an option to be SAD.
When talking about the fighter, it’s also important to remember about unarmed fighting. While your martial arts die increases slowly, unarmed fighting will take you up to a d8 immediately which will be as good or better than your martial arts for most of your career.
Another thing about druid: you can do a 2 level dip in stars druid and go wisdom focused with the cantrip or astral self monk. Stars druid gives you free castings of guiding bolt equal to your proficiency modifier every long rest (so it continues to scale even if you don’t get more druid levels), and you also have the archer constellation. Gives you a really nice ranged potion and good out of combat wildshape utility as well.
It’s worth noting you can activate your astral arms while wild shaped and start putting out silly damage even while you’re a squirrel or something.
I love the unofficial "collaboration" going on between the Dungeon Dudes and d4 Deep Dive right now 😊
Not mentioned on the Monk/Rogue combo, but more fuel to that S tier fire, the Rogue Sneak Attack gets a lot out of Focused Aim, which almost guarantees landing a hit with a Finesse weapon. Focused Aim doesn't require you to be using a monk weapon either, so strictly speaking, you could Focused Aim and Sneak Attack with, say, a cannon.
(Can confirm, Shadow Monk/Assassin Herengon has some really insane surprise round damage output. If your GM loves their "it's just one really big guy" combats, this combo will melt it completely)
Played a shadow monk/wildernes scout rogue and i played him like Nightwing. Throwing in daggers and bamffing in and out out melee. So much fun!!
I’m playing a Monk (open hand) 6 / Light Cleric 6 right now in a campaign that’s been going since Level 1. A really fun character to play - similar to, but more powerful and versatile than, a Sun Soul or Four Elements monk. My DM has done a really good job helping me build a story, and there are some surprise synergies. Definitely feeling that crowded bonus action problem but more than makes up for it in being able to shift strategies and get exactly where she’s needed for support.
Also can confirm it feels cool as hell to be kicking people around in the middle of a swirl of spirit guardians (rings of purple flame, in her case).
I'm happy to see Spores Druid get so much love in the multi-class videos. Spores is my favorite Druid subclass, but it definitely got ragged on and trashed in the "pure" subclass ranking video for Druid. So it's nice seeing it get more positive attention somewhere.
My last D&D character was a Shadow Monk 6/Swarmkeeper Ranger 5. It was a blast, I loved the battlefield control Swarmkeeper added.
Circle of Spores Druid, and Long Death Monk. Endless temp HP for your necrotic attacks. 25:52
the fun thing about a monk druid is that, rules as written, you can still get your bonus wisdom ac and use unarmed strikes and flurry of blows as normal. A druids wildshape doesn't affect your mental scores so you can get a ton of bonus hp while still keeping 15-17 ac and become a solid damage sponge. You can also attack using your martial arts dice with your beasts dex or stregnth mod as the natural weapons of the beast give you an option to attack with, but don't limit any other attacks.
You basically get a super high hp tank monk and only loose a small amount of damage output. And thats without the benefit of any spells you take
I haven't been able to go through all of the comments, so I'm not sure if someone else may have mentioned this already. I found it neat that you considered trying to make the TMNT as munk multiclass characters. While this does make some sense based on how they are prorated, a more realistic or appropriate versions would come from the Rogue multiclass video since ninjas are technically a type of assassin.
In the newly released bg3 game the barbarian rage dmg does not require strength and can work off of dex as well. So with the changes to monk weapons being any weapon you are proficient in with ni restrictions makes it a lot better option. 3 levels of barb going eagle heart for mobility in diving strike and disadvantage to enemies making opertunuty attack plus ki-less step of the wind once per rage is amazing.
You could also be a druid with an initiate feat to get spirit guardians.
I take magic initiate for mage armor, that's +4 to AC that stacks with the monk bonus and wild shape
The only way to make a decent monk paladin is to get really lucky with your dice rolls with manual rolls. If you can make it work you've got a monk that can smite with your fists. I made on and have to have at least a 14 to make it work. His name was William skull splitter
Ive been waiting for this since the artificer video came out. Im playing CoS with a 4th level monk with plans to take a one level dip into peace cleric. Looking at the other options, I'm so excited to try out monk ranger and monk barbarian!
Recently played a level 5 Sun Soul monk/2 Light Cleric multiclass and had a blast with it! Very thematic!
One of my players is doing a barb monk build which is based around sumo wrestling and grappling. He’s a Giff so he gets advantage on athletics checks. He took crusher and way of the open hand so that once per turn he can potentially push someone 20 feet away. Not the most powerful but it’s definitely been a fun build to go up against!
24:39-i am currently playing my first game of 5e. I decided to play the monk as a challenge. Being an old school power gamer and all that, I took variant human and the mobility feat without hesitation. I have so much freedom of movement on the battlefield...and I do exactly what you describe. I get the most hdywtdt in the group...now i just got to get my dm to stop redescribing my visuals in terms of a streetfighter game. I think i am going to make my descriptions more anime like. Hopefully if it more closely matches the tone he is thinking of, he won't change it all that much.
It seems like the 5e culture doesn't favor much battlefield movement. I don't get it. That's part of the fun. If I wanted to stand in one spot for most of the combat and just attack, I would play WOW.