Bro the Forces arc was SO BAD 😭. I really hated the fact they tried so hard trying to call the Forces their “kid” like it is so awful for them to think of it like this wtf were they smoking in the writers room from that season onward. Chester was the best Cisco replacement plus additional side character this show had fr
Just really weird decisions over family matter that the writers have full control over. Wild that late in the show that Barry is married to iris and can call joe his actual father. Just super weird man and then yea like you said the bro and sis and mom and dad stuff is so cringe
I might be in the absolute minority of people who actually enjoyed Eric Wallace’s era. Sure, Season 7 is horrendous dogshit (and S9A is not pretty good), and some of the writing is bad at times, but Season’s 6, 8, and 9B are all pretty good, despite their flaws I think I enjoy it mainly bc they actually do things that are don’t redo certain plot points for main stories and villains (I’m looking at you S2 and 3) and also are bonkers as shit (Season 8 my beloved). Great video Mr. the Zoomster. Can’t wait to watch these retrospective videos for all eternity 😃👍👏
Season 6 was an absolute banger after what season 5 gave us. Although season 5 did have some good moments. That first episode of season 6 was as good as season 1 arguably bro running into the black whole with his new comic accurate suit while Cisco played Flash by queen was an absolute masterpiece
Late stage flash is so disappointing because of the great stuff you mentioned. There’s all these great ideas in there like bloodwork, mirror iris, emotionless Barry, etc. being weighed down by the stuff surrounding it. Mirror iris and everything connected to her is the most Interested I’ve ever been in iris and I genuinely felt for mirror iris when she died. Iris being stuck in the mirror dimension and piecing things together while casually gaining temporary abilities was great. Barry going full conspiracy theory mode was awesome too. If there had been more of that energy and less Chester acting like a child, Allegra killing time, lame villains like red death, etc. than the later seasons would probably be seen in a better light. The flash and Legends of tomorrow both did a ridiculous “this thing that totally isn’t my kid is like my kid” story. Funnily enough even though the forces being treated like the flash’s kids sucks it’s still better than Astrid treating Gideon like her daughter for no reason.
I've really enjoyed watching this, its actually helped me enjoy and appreciate the show more, love the content man can't wait to see what you bring out next time, plus I've not seen any youtubers actually speak about Thawnes timeline up to date properly like you have which was actually quite interesting like how he was some how able to keep coming back and even though it must've been confusing in the cw writers room you did justice on how you spoke about it
Todd Helbing is the one who wrote episodes like Season 1 Episode 9, 15, 22 and Season 2 Episodes 2, 23, Season 3 Episode 8, 9 and Season 4 Episode 15. He became co showrunner of the flash Season 4 and 5 along with Eric Wallace. Bloodwork's arc was Todd's Idea. He left the flash to become showrunner of superman & lois and we know how good he is. Season 6-9 is all Eric Wallace. Eric even fired old CGI team of the flash to hide his horrendous work on Season 7. I mean come one guys, there was a huge gap between Season 6 and 7, they had plenty of time to make a good storyline. But we got Season 7 💀. This showrunner is worst of all time. Even Candice Patton (who plays Iris West) wrote in her instagram post that she knows first 3 seasons are only good ones according to fans.
I can’t be the only person that was annoyed by how much they kept using Tom Cavanaugh as the Reverse Flash right it’s like the show forgot that EOBARD THAWNE is not Harrison Wells. I know it’s just the production being lazy though cuz it never makes sense why he just keeps showing up in that specific body
I think it was also a factor of that being the version Barry has a dynamic with. Of course you can argue that that’s only because they kept bringing him back, but by the time we got to season 8 - Barry and Tom’s Thawne were the ones with the most chemistry and story behind them, so I get why they did that
@@uchihabomber1296 oh it’s great The weakest seasons of legends are still a blast with just the occasional eye rolling moment. it maintained a certain level of quality the others failed to.
@@accidentalmadness1708 completely agree plus I honestly loved it over the seasons it got more wacky and unserious but it made me lowkey care about everyone on the team each time. That show is so insane genuine fun I was so sad it got cancelled tbh
There's a few things to criticize Wallace for, but shout out to him for creating some memorable side characters (Chester and Allegra) and giving Iris more screentime. I know r/flash LOVED to complain about Iris, but she's fr such a great part of the show. (I still can't STAND Frost/Caitlin/Khione though OH MAN THEY SHOULD'VE WRITTEN HER OFF THE SHOW)
Iris was the worst part of the show. The best part of the show were the Caitlin/Cisco/Barry trio. Nothing ever came close. Yet they somehow made the death of one of that trio a footnote, and they booted off Cisco into the multiverse in such a way that I actually had to catch myself when I asked what happened to him.
Iris is a great character! It's just a shame racism and misogny ended up dominating the fanbase in later years, causing her to be the "reason the show sucks" when she's always been a strong character.
@@JayTheZoomster It wasn't because of racism. They just constantly took Iris out of her element as a journalist. Making her leader of Team Flash and somehow this genius tactician who could create algorithms in season 4 was the worst written part of her character. Not to mention her being mad at Barry for going into the Speed Force and leaving her when the alternative was letting the world be destroyed and her "We're the Flash" bull. Seasons 2, most of 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 were the only seasons where she was written right. But really season 2 was her best season because they kept her in her place as Barry's heart who's there when he's down and kept her in her journalist place.
As someone who was also inspired by this show, to get into media and create content. It was always a bit disappointing these last seasons didn't get the love like the first 4 I might even say 5, because 6A, Armageddon, Death Revisited and the Last 5 episodes of S9, had were great episodes and had some decentish writing, but doesn't get the love that It did deserve.
@@JayTheZoomster I agree with your statement. Armageddon, bloodwork and the deathstorm storyline were examples of great stuff done in the later seasons.
The nightmare scene the very second The Thanksgiving Dinner nightmare scene The Funny thing is Iris badgers Barry to eat , while Killer Frost says she wants to give him everything
i disagree, shows tend to get worse over time, early seasons are usually the best. shows in their later seasons always end up getting lazier writing, way too many characters causing a loss of focus on the main character we all love, we always end up getting plot holes and character assassination, contradictory writting. among other things. its almost un heard of for a series to maintain quality past a few season. ive never seen it happen. flash is no different imo. i was in love with the show and gave up on it after s5. i couldnt bring myself to watch it anymore. for like 6 years, finally a few months ago i decided to give the series a chance and finish it. almost every past season 3 was a waste of my life watching, to say season 6 is the best makes me feel you arent in touch with the heart or meaning of the show.
99% of these guys could have been stopped if Flash didn't talk so much. They made him way to overpowered from the beginning. How can you catch a bullet from behind you at pointblank, but can't react to a shield or someone turning around and walking aways. I love The Flash but this show was a let down for me.
It's goofy trying to work out exactly what part of your body "is you" so I understand people being upset or not really liking how eobard and wellz are tied together I always assumed it had something to do with when the reverse flash went back in time to take Wellz's place. He sapped the nutrients out of the guy and used them to ' become ' him in a way on the outside.
I definitely think the red death should have been Oliver Queen simply because its a character who us as an audiencs care about and in a way it wouldve been a great choice in the writers room because Barry would've came full cirlce from being guided by a caring mentor to having to fight a version of him with voilent intent would have barry question his morals and would have been an exelent dynamic to give the flash more character development as it that confliction Barry would have on what to do about defeating the red death would emphasise to viewers how iconic he is, it also would have been a good excuse for barry to take the front seat for those episodes without the imput from the team as its something only Barry will understand.
Also would have shown us a great performance from Steven Amell as it would have been a version of Oliver that couldn't quite control himself and crossed the line that would break his personality, the potential and ideas that could've been explored around this could have been awesome but unfortunately we won't see that, I know I've typed so much in this comment section but I hope that you might have found that concept interesting.
So ... there was a Black Out of electricity around 20 :44 so i have to watch it all over again but before that Deon Bashir and Fuerza where not around for the finale it was just the speed force against Emo Eddie . Strange huh ?
My problems with the speed force are that it keeps showing up as Barry’s mom. I can’t even imagine how agonizing it would be too essentially see my mother die in front of me and then what amounts to my god comes to me in her form constantly. And Barry has made it known he does not like it. He straight up is crying the first time it happens as he says to the force why are you doing this too me? Brutal. And as the seasons go it gets worse and worse at least in my eyes. The force continues showing up as Nora. I get they need to make the force a physical thing they can see but his mom? Literally the traumatizing event that ruined his life. The scenes with Ramsey and him freaking out are really cool but it completely takes me out of it when Nora is their and at this point Barry is coool with it taking his moms form. Then the worst of it all they make the speed force as a main character out and around with team flash all the time meaning he always will have someone that looks like his mom but isn’t always around. It’s not like another Nora in the multiverse like we do see. That’s a whole other person and he doesn’t see them often. And all team members will just defend and be cool with Nora being around and wonder why the flash doesn’t want her around. And of course Nora turning into a power rangers villain was the icing for me. I see a lot of people complain mostly about the supporting cast around the flash… Allegra, Chester, Cecile, snow… but I really don’t see people bring up speed force Nora.
Flash has been inconsistent since Day 1, it mostly did not follow the rules that the show establishes itself and a fewplotholes. Some examples of the top of my head are: 1. How time travel works. In s1 ep 15, when barry "goes back in time" at the end of the episode he really doesn't. He reverses it, otherwise there would still be two barrys if he did really go back in time. Once the show establishes there that going back in time means you are replacing yourself at the point of time. Then everything after that point, time travel means there can be duplicates of yourself, for example in season 2 when barry goes back in time to 2014-15 and when barry and nora have to find things in s5. 2. Black canary screams being able to hurt devoe even though it was established sound waves cant hurt devoe in ralphs body. 3. Barry being able to use "flashtime" since s1 ep2 yet isn't use to doing it i guess in s4. 4. Barry constantly running up to people and punching them at normal speed for no reason. 5. It was shown before in s4 that barry was about to outrun his own lightning he throws in season 4, yet let Iris gets hit by it in season 8. 6. Barry constant stopping to talk for 9 seasons at a 40 minute runtime. 7. Barry having difficulties being captain cold is quite literally insane, since he is 1. not a meta and 2. is literally a normal guy with gun. Unlike in the comics, where I heard he has a cold forcefield or some sort.
imma be honest there's a lot to like about this show but lets be real a lot of stuff is terrible. i get it's hard to write a show about a guy who can put 99% of his villains in jail instantly and there was probably no way to actually write that well for him not to as he gets every chance to or a villain disappearing instantly when it's only been like a few seconds while barry either stands there or say their gone when they couldn't be. i do agree with a lot of the criticism but i think we can all agree the worst thing about this show was that damn final suit. legit that fit was ass especially compared to the other seasons fits. and that's the fit we spent the MOST time on. justice for flashes suit
This is what I was looking for. Someone who talks about the not so great parts of the Flash while being fair and not just blindly hating. THANK YOU
Bro the Forces arc was SO BAD 😭. I really hated the fact they tried so hard trying to call the Forces their “kid” like it is so awful for them to think of it like this wtf were they smoking in the writers room from that season onward.
Chester was the best Cisco replacement plus additional side character this show had fr
Just really weird decisions over family matter that the writers have full control over. Wild that late in the show that Barry is married to iris and can call joe his actual father. Just super weird man and then yea like you said the bro and sis and mom and dad stuff is so cringe
the forces was bs
@@Mythowars incredibly cringe like these are random ass people just cuz you have them powers doesn’t make them your children it’s too stupid
In the comics the speed force is a multiversal force. It makes sense that any Speedster who have access to the speed force can see that.
I might be in the absolute minority of people who actually enjoyed Eric Wallace’s era. Sure, Season 7 is horrendous dogshit (and S9A is not pretty good), and some of the writing is bad at times, but Season’s 6, 8, and 9B are all pretty good, despite their flaws
I think I enjoy it mainly bc they actually do things that are don’t redo certain plot points for main stories and villains (I’m looking at you S2 and 3) and also are bonkers as shit (Season 8 my beloved).
Great video Mr. the Zoomster. Can’t wait to watch these retrospective videos for all eternity 😃👍👏
Seasons 6 and 8 go brrrrr
Season 6 was an absolute banger after what season 5 gave us. Although season 5 did have some good moments. That first episode of season 6 was as good as season 1 arguably bro running into the black whole with his new comic accurate suit while Cisco played Flash by queen was an absolute masterpiece
First episode of Season 6 is peak.
I really liked the first part of season 6, Barry getting ready for crisis, the bloodwork story was engaging imo and seeing dark flash was pretty cool
you're on top of it! i actually just restarted watching the flash
Late stage flash is so disappointing because of the great stuff you mentioned. There’s all these great ideas in there like bloodwork, mirror iris, emotionless Barry, etc. being weighed down by the stuff surrounding it. Mirror iris and everything connected to her is the most Interested I’ve ever been in iris and I genuinely felt for mirror iris when she died. Iris being stuck in the mirror dimension and piecing things together while casually gaining temporary abilities was great. Barry going full conspiracy theory mode was awesome too. If there had been more of that energy and less Chester acting like a child, Allegra killing time, lame villains like red death, etc. than the later seasons would probably be seen in a better light.
The flash and Legends of tomorrow both did a ridiculous “this thing that totally isn’t my kid is like my kid” story. Funnily enough even though the forces being treated like the flash’s kids sucks it’s still better than Astrid treating Gideon like her daughter for no reason.
I've really enjoyed watching this, its actually helped me enjoy and appreciate the show more, love the content man can't wait to see what you bring out next time, plus I've not seen any youtubers actually speak about Thawnes timeline up to date properly like you have which was actually quite interesting like how he was some how able to keep coming back and even though it must've been confusing in the cw writers room you did justice on how you spoke about it
Thank you so much! I’m glad you liked it!
Todd Helbing is the one who wrote episodes like Season 1 Episode 9, 15, 22 and Season 2 Episodes 2, 23, Season 3 Episode 8, 9 and Season 4 Episode 15. He became co showrunner of the flash Season 4 and 5 along with Eric Wallace. Bloodwork's arc was Todd's Idea. He left the flash to become showrunner of superman & lois and we know how good he is. Season 6-9 is all Eric Wallace. Eric even fired old CGI team of the flash to hide his horrendous work on Season 7. I mean come one guys, there was a huge gap between Season 6 and 7, they had plenty of time to make a good storyline. But we got Season 7 💀. This showrunner is worst of all time. Even Candice Patton (who plays Iris West) wrote in her instagram post that she knows first 3 seasons are only good ones according to fans.
this audio sounds nice, whoever did that is really cool and you should watch the expanse for him
I can’t be the only person that was annoyed by how much they kept using Tom Cavanaugh as the Reverse Flash right it’s like the show forgot that EOBARD THAWNE is not Harrison Wells. I know it’s just the production being lazy though cuz it never makes sense why he just keeps showing up in that specific body
I think it was also a factor of that being the version Barry has a dynamic with. Of course you can argue that that’s only because they kept bringing him back, but by the time we got to season 8 - Barry and Tom’s Thawne were the ones with the most chemistry and story behind them, so I get why they did that
At least legends took the other actor and gave him an awesome story.
@@accidentalmadness1708 in my personal opinion Legends of Tomorrow is my favorite CW DC show only cuz it’s just so fun to watch
@@uchihabomber1296 oh it’s great The weakest seasons of legends are still a blast with just the occasional eye rolling moment. it maintained a certain level of quality the others failed to.
@@accidentalmadness1708 completely agree plus I honestly loved it over the seasons it got more wacky and unserious but it made me lowkey care about everyone on the team each time. That show is so insane genuine fun I was so sad it got cancelled tbh
Amazing video bro. Keep it up
There's a few things to criticize Wallace for, but shout out to him for creating some memorable side characters (Chester and Allegra) and giving Iris more screentime. I know r/flash LOVED to complain about Iris, but she's fr such a great part of the show.
(I still can't STAND Frost/Caitlin/Khione though OH MAN THEY SHOULD'VE WRITTEN HER OFF THE SHOW)
I cant tell if this is satire
Iris was the worst part of the show. The best part of the show were the Caitlin/Cisco/Barry trio. Nothing ever came close. Yet they somehow made the death of one of that trio a footnote, and they booted off Cisco into the multiverse in such a way that I actually had to catch myself when I asked what happened to him.
Iris is a great character! It's just a shame racism and misogny ended up dominating the fanbase in later years, causing her to be the "reason the show sucks" when she's always been a strong character.
@@JayTheZoomsterNah man, she sucks. Ever since season 1 she’s been an annoying brat who always thinks she’s right.
@@JayTheZoomster It wasn't because of racism. They just constantly took Iris out of her element as a journalist. Making her leader of Team Flash and somehow this genius tactician who could create algorithms in season 4 was the worst written part of her character. Not to mention her being mad at Barry for going into the Speed Force and leaving her when the alternative was letting the world be destroyed and her "We're the Flash" bull. Seasons 2, most of 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 were the only seasons where she was written right. But really season 2 was her best season because they kept her in her place as Barry's heart who's there when he's down and kept her in her journalist place.
yesssir hes uploading again
As someone who was also inspired by this show, to get into media and create content. It was always a bit disappointing these last seasons didn't get the love like the first 4 I might even say 5, because 6A, Armageddon, Death Revisited and the Last 5 episodes of S9, had were great episodes and had some decentish writing, but doesn't get the love that It did deserve.
I completely agree. There’s so much in the later seasons worth loving and discussing, and it’s a real shame that it’s not given that credit.
@@JayTheZoomster like you said it had the 2 worse seasons and the 2 good seasons people just love to shit on things.
@@JayTheZoomster I agree with your statement. Armageddon, bloodwork and the deathstorm storyline were examples of great stuff done in the later seasons.
Just finished the video in flashtime, good video
Flash downfall really is being studied
2:07 That music bro where can i find it ? that mix of music
17:01 The music man i like the music this specific mix
It’s just a rock cover of the main theme!
@@JayTheZoomster do you have a link in the description for that rock cover ?
The nightmare scene the very second The Thanksgiving Dinner nightmare scene The Funny thing is Iris badgers Barry to eat , while Killer Frost says she wants to give him everything
i disagree, shows tend to get worse over time, early seasons are usually the best. shows in their later seasons always end up getting lazier writing, way too many characters causing a loss of focus on the main character we all love, we always end up getting plot holes and character assassination, contradictory writting. among other things. its almost un heard of for a series to maintain quality past a few season. ive never seen it happen. flash is no different imo. i was in love with the show and gave up on it after s5. i couldnt bring myself to watch it anymore. for like 6 years, finally a few months ago i decided to give the series a chance and finish it. almost every past season 3 was a waste of my life watching, to say season 6 is the best makes me feel you arent in touch with the heart or meaning of the show.
LET’S GOOOOO 🎉!
99% of these guys could have been stopped if Flash didn't talk so much. They made him way to overpowered from the beginning.
How can you catch a bullet from behind you at pointblank, but can't react to a shield or someone turning around and walking aways.
I love The Flash but this show was a let down for me.
It's goofy trying to work out exactly what part of your body "is you"
so I understand people being upset or not really liking how eobard and wellz are tied together
I always assumed it had something to do with when the reverse flash went back in time to take Wellz's place.
He sapped the nutrients out of the guy and used them to ' become ' him in a way on the outside.
I definitely think the red death should have been Oliver Queen simply because its a character who us as an audiencs care about and in a way it wouldve been a great choice in the writers room because Barry would've came full cirlce from being guided by a caring mentor to having to fight a version of him with voilent intent would have barry question his morals and would have been an exelent dynamic to give the flash more character development as it that confliction Barry would have on what to do about defeating the red death would emphasise to viewers how iconic he is, it also would have been a good excuse for barry to take the front seat for those episodes without the imput from the team as its something only Barry will understand.
Also would have shown us a great performance from Steven Amell as it would have been a version of Oliver that couldn't quite control himself and crossed the line that would break his personality, the potential and ideas that could've been explored around this could have been awesome but unfortunately we won't see that, I know I've typed so much in this comment section but I hope that you might have found that concept interesting.
So ... there was a Black Out of electricity around 20 :44 so i have to watch it all over again but before that Deon Bashir and Fuerza where not around for the finale it was just the speed force against Emo Eddie . Strange huh ?
My problems with the speed force are that it keeps showing up as Barry’s mom. I can’t even imagine how agonizing it would be too essentially see my mother die in front of me and then what amounts to my god comes to me in her form constantly. And Barry has made it known he does not like it. He straight up is crying the first time it happens as he says to the force why are you doing this too me? Brutal. And as the seasons go it gets worse and worse at least in my eyes. The force continues showing up as Nora. I get they need to make the force a physical thing they can see but his mom? Literally the traumatizing event that ruined his life. The scenes with Ramsey and him freaking out are really cool but it completely takes me out of it when Nora is their and at this point Barry is coool with it taking his moms form. Then the worst of it all they make the speed force as a main character out and around with team flash all the time meaning he always will have someone that looks like his mom but isn’t always around. It’s not like another Nora in the multiverse like we do see. That’s a whole other person and he doesn’t see them often. And all team members will just defend and be cool with Nora being around and wonder why the flash doesn’t want her around. And of course Nora turning into a power rangers villain was the icing for me. I see a lot of people complain mostly about the supporting cast around the flash… Allegra, Chester, Cecile, snow… but I really don’t see people bring up speed force Nora.
Barry could not throw hands in season 5 when he fought Cicada without his powers
Nice, need me vids like this and madvocate's the flash is insufferably inconsistent videos
Don't stop to talk don't stop to talk 😅 -Madvocate
If you have to turn your brain off to enjoy a show it’s not a good show.
Flash has been inconsistent since Day 1, it mostly did not follow the rules that the show establishes itself and a fewplotholes. Some examples of the top of my head are:
1. How time travel works. In s1 ep 15, when barry "goes back in time" at the end of the episode he really doesn't. He reverses it, otherwise there would still be two barrys if he did really go back in time. Once the show establishes there that going back in time means you are replacing yourself at the point of time. Then everything after that point, time travel means there can be duplicates of yourself, for example in season 2 when barry goes back in time to 2014-15 and when barry and nora have to find things in s5.
2. Black canary screams being able to hurt devoe even though it was established sound waves cant hurt devoe in ralphs body.
3. Barry being able to use "flashtime" since s1 ep2 yet isn't use to doing it i guess in s4.
4. Barry constantly running up to people and punching them at normal speed for no reason.
5. It was shown before in s4 that barry was about to outrun his own lightning he throws in season 4, yet let Iris gets hit by it in season 8.
6. Barry constant stopping to talk for 9 seasons at a 40 minute runtime.
7. Barry having difficulties being captain cold is quite literally insane, since he is 1. not a meta and 2. is literally a normal guy with gun. Unlike in the comics, where I heard he has a cold forcefield or some sort.
A lot of great points here! I will say, in the comics Snart doesn’t have a cold force field or anything, he just has a cold gun.
Mohinder!? Why is Dr.Suresh in the flash? He has charisma...
Make a video on "The Penguin" if you havent watched it WATCH IT, its peak lol.
Okay!
@@JayTheZoomster thank you :)
How dare you insult dr who comparing it to red death! 😂
Please do a smallville video
imma be honest there's a lot to like about this show but lets be real a lot of stuff is terrible. i get it's hard to write a show about a guy who can put 99% of his villains in jail instantly and there was probably no way to actually write that well for him not to as he gets every chance to or a villain disappearing instantly when it's only been like a few seconds while barry either stands there or say their gone when they couldn't be. i do agree with a lot of the criticism but i think we can all agree the worst thing about this show was that damn final suit. legit that fit was ass especially compared to the other seasons fits. and that's the fit we spent the MOST time on. justice for flashes suit
Character assassination for iris?? She's literally always been the worst
The ps3 had bettee graphics then the flash show lol
💀