On my instrument cross country with my instructor, we were in the soup going into Pensacola. The weather was 800' overcast and ATC was vectoring me for the ILS. He had some faster planes he was trying to get in before me, so he turned me about 6 times in a min during the decent. I got overwhelmed and spacial disorientation. If my instructor hadn't been with me I would have certainly killed myself that day.
If I was looking for an instructor, Joe would be my choice. Great personality, very well informed, and I'll bet a great instructor. He should expand his channel and share his vast knowledge. Very lucky to have him help you guys out. I'm a fan!!!
Hey Dan and Christy, Great show. I'm a big fan of Joe, I for one would not be upset if he were to be come a regular member of the in the hangar crew. He always is so informative, knowledgeable and passionate about the topics he discusses on the show, I keep finding myself disappointed each time the episode is over. Keep up the good work and hurry up and re-book Joe!
Bryan and the kid laying on the ground holding the chair at 13:42 are the MVPs of this episode. That kid on the ground made me laugh so hard when I noticed him
I am a student pilot and My CFI and I went into MVFR and got close to the clouds. I did some steep turns. When I completed them I put the aircraft level. So I thought. I noticed my instruments, attitude and turn coordinator to the left, yet I looked out and swore I was flying straight and level. I had a argument with the instruments and the instrument won. Crazy how your body argues with the instruments even though you are told to trust the instruments. Anyway, I fixed the attitude and learned my limits. I was also near a mountain. This helped me find my minimums in MVFR weather. Also, when I flew at night during the bumpy super flight. I put the instrument into the scan. I did trust my view on the horizon. Wanted to verify. The plane was being tossed all over the place.
Not another sad episode, seems like everyday we hear about another fatal. Tks Dan & Christy, shows like yours bring us expert advise and maybe things will get better.
Hi Christy and Dan. I haven´t seen Mr Casey in a very long time. The last one was the episode "Slip vs Skids" which I enjoied a lot. If it is posible the next time, I would ask, and I´d ask you to transfer my question to him, what is certain and what is a myth about scuba-diving just before flying, since, I presume, Mr Casey has some aeronautical/medical knowledge. Thank you so much for this very instructing episode. It helped me to know me better and my bahavior. As always, cheers from NE patagonia, Argentina.
personally i think instrument ratings should apart of a private pilots initial license and imbedded into the written exam by no means am i attempting to degrade the importance of regulations, weather, or calculations it is very important but. the problem with the initial pilots written exam is its full of months of study that are better learned through flight training and experience and less filled with the information's that pertains to safety of flight and pilotage for example. weight and balance, weather, regulations , sure i agree its a very important part of flight and safety but learning to calculate weight, CG, and weather requirements is better suited during flight training, and just learning that it is required is good enough for the written portion. that block of usable exam space would be better suited for studying the effects and resolutions of spatial disorientations or common pilot errors. learning calculations and weather is easer when it is applied in a real word scenario, your predictions are reviewed by your instructor and if within safe limits you get to experience your predictions in flight as to their accuracy and effect Learning airspace regulations is better understood when plotting your flights during your training and reviewed by your instructor as real world applications are the key to understanding large amounts of information such a airspace IMO the FAA written exam and flight tests are too focused on regulations and redundant information that overwhelm the student from the start yes this information is very important but it makes it difficult to retain the information needed for a safe flight and is often forgotten once the brain is overwhelmed with task saturation and pilotage , then when things go wrong you can barley remember what to do as your memory is overloaded with redundant information the FAA needs to review its tactics on creating new pilots and change its methods to reflect more on actual safety as it pertains to pilotage , how to actually fly the aircraft, how to resolve common and historical errors and leave the calculations, airspace regulations, and redundant information to the instructor to teach through repetition dont get me wrong this stuff is very important but after all there's a reason that instructors must get a specific certificate to instruct and being able to teach that should be a requirement you want the pilots memory to be filled with resolutions and the pilots muscle memory to react to changing conditions through repetitive training not confusion and guesses my written course and test recommendations 1. Basic Power Plant operations 2. Basic Aerodynamics and Primary flight control operation 3. Flying via VFR rules 4. Avionics and Flight instruments 5. Flying via IFR Rules (as pertaining to instrument ratings) 6. Common, historical Errors, and resolutions for VFR ( extensive) 7. Common, Historical errors, and resolutions for IFR (extensive) 8. Emergency Procedures (extensive) 9. Emergency communications ( only emergency communications and extensive in that area) 10. Basic Regulations involving airspace (keep it brief and to the point the instructor can teach more in depth ) now let the rest be mandatorily taught by the instructor through real world flight training and understanding through repetition. also get off the backs of aircraft manufactures so they can make modern safer aircraft at a affordable price to the average income of the united states its better to fill the skys with reliable, safer, technology advanced aircraft than fill the skys with junk from the 60's because thats all anyone can afford without becoming rich first
I don't know if the Vertigon is still brought to airshows or not, but if it is, every pilot should "fly " it. My logbook has the sticker they gave me. It says "Wow! I flew the Vertigon!". You'll never forget it. Not many hours after getting my PPL I was flying my wife an kids from Minden, Louisiana to Hallettsville, Texas. I had worked all day so we left right at dusk. Somewhere south of Lufkin most of the ground references disappeared. I also noticed that the "stupid airplane" kept turning off course :) I got on the gauges (not instrument rated but we did a lot of hood work during the PP training) , started tracking the VOR radial, and got back on track, no pun intended. It was much later, during instrument training, that I figured out what had happened. During my instrument training, I think it was lesson 2 or 3 when we went real IMC (500' overcast). I asked the instructor to take the controls because I wanted to see what it looked like. I still remember him saying "There's nothing to see!" and I responded "I want to see what that looks like". It didn't last long, there was nothing to see :o) I cannot imagine what Mark Patey was feeling...Very happy to see Joe Casey again.
Exactly why I’ve always believed Night VFR shouldn’t be a thing. Don’t get me wrong it’s fine in places where you have a lot of terrestrial lighting, but where you don’t have a lot of lighting from the ground or a well lit night sky, you can have pitch black conditions with no discernible horizon. I’ve seen it myself flying in Connecticut. In my opinion an instrument rating should be required for pilots that want to fly at night. I’m not saying you should be on an IFR flight plan on every night flight, but you should at least have achieved the rating to legally fly at night. IMO.
I am of the same school of thought. The idea of night VFR is nice, but it is so easy to get trapped with no visual reference. Doesn’t matter if you’re inside a cloud, or pitch black cloud free, if you can’t see outside, well, what do you call that?
Sometimes we hear of the glass of water horizon check. I come from a construction family so I think of bringing a level. Either an 8" one or 24". This would confirm to me that we were or were not level. Just place that instrument on the dash of the plane. Or hold it up long enough to compare with the artificial horizon.
While I am not a pilot I did take some ground school years ago. Our instructor emphasized duplicate or redundant input or systems. When we hear that a jet motor came apart and destroyed some crucial system, I always listen for someone to speak of a secondary system to kick in and save the day. But in seveal years of YT channels this has been rare at best. But for some things I feel we were given the answers: (some answers) •The lady was spiraling. We were taught to keep an eye on the compass. •The lady was descending. We were taught to keep an eye on the altemiter. •Listen to your engine. Is it laboring? Or not working hard enough? •And so on like that. The instructor had us comparing instruments, listening and believing instruments. How do these things strike you? Because I hear nothing about these things on UA-cam, to speak of.
When i used to travel on bus at night or even if in a taxi id give driver a wrong turning as in the vdark my head brain or whatever couldn't work out where i was, since cive moved ive never travrlled at night . But ive noticed it visually walking down steps i have to be careful As i cant judge step distsnces ,ive found out ive got damage in executive brain functioning areas , uour cerebrum and cerebilm areas which explains those symptons plus ive found out im autistic
I fly the great lakes area hey try taking off from mackinaw Island night time and severe clear, even day time beaver Island. Those big bodies of water will make you want to get that autopilot on in a hurry. Manual flying in IMC ?? I have to believe that the older instrument systems are not as safe as the newer panels. I think that there has been many discussions about what is safer but all will get you disoriented and as single pilot IFR being able to go to that autopilot will save you. Most of the time we just have to get on top and I know that it's only for a short time but it can be nerve racking and on the other hand I've never hard a problem desending to minimums in IMC. Great discussions my instructor would get me disoriented on purpose just to know what it feels like and how to overcome it, sometimes you just need to put your feet on the ground.
I think that the hesitancy among older pilots to trust an autopilot is that most legacy autopilots from the '70s and '80s weren't that good and were extremely limited in functionality. Even many current aftermarket autopilots can be worse than hand flying in one or more axes. The flying club I am with has two DA40s with G1000 panels and a GFC 700 autopilot. All of these things were designed from the factory to work together and they do a very good job. I've even flown in a Vans RV-8 with a properly set up Dynon SkyView system and autopilot and it worked just as good. However, the flying club also has an older Cessna 172N with an older but still relatively new S-TEC System 50 autopilot that was put on the plane several years ago. It's ok at holding a heading, radial, or GPS track to VFR standards but you're better off trying to manually hold altitude with throttle and pitch trim adjustments. I would not trust that thing to save my life in the event of spatial disorientation and I understand why others would be hesitant to trust an autopilot if their first exposure to one was that bad.
If you’re the pilot flying and bend over and turn and get SD, then for sure you’re not the right choice. Odds are the pilot monitoring did not do the same movement you did .
If you have lost visual view of where you’re heading due to fog or clouds , you automatically become disoriented You’d know the instant you loose sight of your direction
So I am concluding that if a pilot can keep his eyes on his instruments during foggy conditions, then everything will be OK. Now what is so hard about that? Sure your body is lying to you. Are people really that weak minded? Skilled experienced pilots can't figure that out? They can't separate themselves from their initial impulses to remind themselves that they need to look at their instruments? What a weak minded species we are. As a non pilot , Am I missing something?
Bloody fantastic video.
Joe is so impressive. Thank you so much for shining light on him!!
Great episode, and excellent information. Thank you Dan, Christy, Joe, and you too Brian. 🤘🇺🇸🛩️
Glad to see you guys back.
On my instrument cross country with my instructor, we were in the soup going into Pensacola. The weather was 800' overcast and ATC was vectoring me for the ILS. He had some faster planes he was trying to get in before me, so he turned me about 6 times in a min during the decent. I got overwhelmed and spacial disorientation. If my instructor hadn't been with me I would have certainly killed myself that day.
If I was looking for an instructor, Joe would be my choice. Great personality, very well informed, and I'll bet a great instructor. He should expand his channel and share his vast knowledge. Very lucky to have him help you guys out. I'm a fan!!!
Excellent episode with some great info. Thank you!
Joe Casey is amazon, he has great visual aides that help explain the concepts so well.
Excellent presentation, thank you all!
Pretty interesting. I like your shows where you “investigate” causes of plane/ helicopter accidents.
I learn so much every time Joe Casey does a video or a podcast, the guys is amazing.
Hey Dan and Christy, Great show. I'm a big fan of Joe, I for one would not be upset if he were to be come a regular member of the in the hangar crew. He always is so informative, knowledgeable and passionate about the topics he discusses on the show, I keep finding myself disappointed each time the episode is over. Keep up the good work and hurry up and re-book Joe!
This is awesome info!!! Thank You!!
Excellent show. Really enjoy Joe Casey.
Bryan and the kid laying on the ground holding the chair at 13:42 are the MVPs of this episode. That kid on the ground made me laugh so hard when I noticed him
You had me at "Joe Casey"
Joe has a great personality, very well informed, and what experience!!! Always a good time listening to him, Wish I lived in Texas!
Great info! Thanks so much for sharing guys!
I am a student pilot and My CFI and I went into MVFR and got close to the clouds. I did some steep turns. When I completed them I put the aircraft level. So I thought. I noticed my instruments, attitude and turn coordinator to the left, yet I looked out and swore I was flying straight and level. I had a argument with the instruments and the instrument won. Crazy how your body argues with the instruments even though you are told to trust the instruments. Anyway, I fixed the attitude and learned my limits. I was also near a mountain. This helped me find my minimums in MVFR weather. Also, when I flew at night during the bumpy super flight. I put the instrument into the scan. I did trust my view on the horizon. Wanted to verify. The plane was being tossed all over the place.
Great session.
Not another sad episode, seems like everyday we hear about another fatal. Tks Dan & Christy, shows like yours bring us expert advise and maybe things will get better.
Not sad if this info saves some pilots life in the near future. 😉
@@TakingOff Good point.
Hi Christy and Dan. I haven´t seen Mr Casey in a very long time. The last one was the episode "Slip vs Skids" which I enjoied a lot. If it is posible the next time, I would ask, and I´d ask you to transfer my question to him, what is certain and what is a myth about scuba-diving just before flying, since, I presume, Mr Casey has some aeronautical/medical knowledge. Thank you so much for this very instructing episode. It helped me to know me better and my bahavior. As always, cheers from NE patagonia, Argentina.
Thanks Walter- I’ll ask.
Great video!
Very informative, great episode
personally i think instrument ratings should apart of a private pilots initial license and imbedded into the written exam
by no means am i attempting to degrade the importance of regulations, weather, or calculations it is very important but.
the problem with the initial pilots written exam is its full of months of study that are better learned through flight training and experience and less filled with the information's that pertains to safety of flight and pilotage
for example. weight and balance, weather, regulations , sure i agree its a very important part of flight and safety but
learning to calculate weight, CG, and weather requirements is better suited during flight training, and just learning that it is required is good enough for the written portion. that block of usable exam space would be better suited for studying the effects and resolutions of spatial disorientations or common pilot errors.
learning calculations and weather is easer when it is applied in a real word scenario, your predictions are reviewed by your instructor and if within safe limits you get to experience your predictions in flight as to their accuracy and effect
Learning airspace regulations is better understood when plotting your flights during your training and reviewed by your instructor as real world applications are the key to understanding large amounts of information such a airspace
IMO the FAA written exam and flight tests are too focused on regulations and redundant information that overwhelm the student from the start yes this information is very important but it makes it difficult to retain the information needed for a safe flight and is often forgotten once the brain is overwhelmed with task saturation and pilotage , then when things go wrong you can barley remember what to do as your memory is overloaded with redundant information
the FAA needs to review its tactics on creating new pilots and change its methods to reflect more on actual safety as it pertains to pilotage , how to actually fly the aircraft, how to resolve common and historical errors and leave the calculations, airspace regulations, and redundant information to the instructor to teach through repetition dont get me wrong this stuff is very important but after all there's a reason that instructors must get a specific certificate to instruct and being able to teach that should be a requirement
you want the pilots memory to be filled with resolutions and the pilots muscle memory to react to changing conditions through repetitive training not confusion and guesses
my written course and test recommendations
1. Basic Power Plant operations
2. Basic Aerodynamics and Primary flight control operation
3. Flying via VFR rules
4. Avionics and Flight instruments
5. Flying via IFR Rules (as pertaining to instrument ratings)
6. Common, historical Errors, and resolutions for VFR ( extensive)
7. Common, Historical errors, and resolutions for IFR (extensive)
8. Emergency Procedures (extensive)
9. Emergency communications ( only emergency communications and extensive in that area)
10. Basic Regulations involving airspace (keep it brief and to the point the instructor can teach more in depth )
now let the rest be mandatorily taught by the instructor through real world flight training and understanding through repetition.
also get off the backs of aircraft manufactures so they can make modern safer aircraft at a affordable price to the average income of the united states its better to fill the skys with reliable, safer, technology advanced aircraft than fill the skys with junk from the 60's because thats all anyone can afford without becoming rich first
I don't know if the Vertigon is still brought to airshows or not, but if it is, every pilot should "fly " it. My logbook has the sticker they gave me. It says "Wow! I flew the Vertigon!". You'll never forget it.
Not many hours after getting my PPL I was flying my wife an kids from Minden, Louisiana to Hallettsville, Texas. I had worked all day so we left right at dusk. Somewhere south of Lufkin most of the ground references disappeared. I also noticed that the "stupid airplane" kept turning off course :) I got on the gauges (not instrument rated but we did a lot of hood work during the PP training) , started tracking the VOR radial, and got back on track, no pun intended. It was much later, during instrument training, that I figured out what had happened.
During my instrument training, I think it was lesson 2 or 3 when we went real IMC (500' overcast). I asked the instructor to take the controls because I wanted to see what it looked like. I still remember him saying "There's nothing to see!" and I responded "I want to see what that looks like". It didn't last long, there was nothing to see :o)
I cannot imagine what Mark Patey was feeling...Very happy to see Joe Casey again.
Tha is for sharing!
Exactly why I’ve always believed Night VFR shouldn’t be a thing. Don’t get me wrong it’s fine in places where you have a lot of terrestrial lighting, but where you don’t have a lot of lighting from the ground or a well lit night sky, you can have pitch black conditions with no discernible horizon. I’ve seen it myself flying in Connecticut. In my opinion an instrument rating should be required for pilots that want to fly at night. I’m not saying you should be on an IFR flight plan on every night flight, but you should at least have achieved the rating to legally fly at night. IMO.
I am of the same school of thought. The idea of night VFR is nice, but it is so easy to get trapped with no visual reference. Doesn’t matter if you’re inside a cloud, or pitch black cloud free, if you can’t see outside, well, what do you call that?
Sometimes we hear of the glass of water horizon check. I come from a construction family so I think of bringing a level. Either an 8" one or 24". This would confirm to me that we were or were not level. Just place that instrument on the dash of the plane. Or hold it up long enough to compare with the artificial horizon.
While I am not a pilot I did take some ground school years ago. Our instructor emphasized duplicate or redundant input or systems. When we hear that a jet motor came apart and destroyed some crucial system, I always listen for someone to speak of a secondary system to kick in and save the day. But in seveal years of YT channels this has been rare at best.
But for some things I feel we were given the answers: (some answers)
•The lady was spiraling. We were taught to keep an eye on the compass.
•The lady was descending. We were taught to keep an eye on the altemiter.
•Listen to your engine. Is it laboring? Or not working hard enough?
•And so on like that. The instructor had us comparing instruments, listening and believing instruments.
How do these things strike you? Because I hear nothing about these things on UA-cam, to speak of.
Wait a minute the pilot just couldn't see in front of him or around him smh
Very common. Many pilots train to get their Instrument Rating and fly this way everyday.
When i used to travel on bus at night or even if in a taxi id give driver a wrong turning as in the vdark my head brain or whatever couldn't work out where i was, since cive moved ive never travrlled at night .
But ive noticed it visually walking down steps i have to be careful
As i cant judge step distsnces ,ive found out ive got damage in executive brain functioning areas , uour cerebrum and cerebilm areas which explains those symptons plus ive found out im autistic
How did I just know it was going to be Bryan??
🤣
I fly the great lakes area hey try taking off from mackinaw Island night time and severe clear, even day time beaver Island. Those big bodies of water will make you want to get that autopilot on in a hurry. Manual flying in IMC ?? I have to believe that the older instrument systems are not as safe as the newer panels. I think that there has been many discussions about what is safer but all will get you disoriented and as single pilot IFR being able to go to that autopilot will save you. Most of the time we just have to get on top and I know that it's only for a short time but it can be nerve racking and on the other hand I've never hard a problem desending to minimums in IMC.
Great discussions my instructor would get me disoriented on purpose just to know what it feels like and how to overcome it, sometimes you just need to put your feet on the ground.
I think that the hesitancy among older pilots to trust an autopilot is that most legacy autopilots from the '70s and '80s weren't that good and were extremely limited in functionality. Even many current aftermarket autopilots can be worse than hand flying in one or more axes. The flying club I am with has two DA40s with G1000 panels and a GFC 700 autopilot. All of these things were designed from the factory to work together and they do a very good job. I've even flown in a Vans RV-8 with a properly set up Dynon SkyView system and autopilot and it worked just as good. However, the flying club also has an older Cessna 172N with an older but still relatively new S-TEC System 50 autopilot that was put on the plane several years ago. It's ok at holding a heading, radial, or GPS track to VFR standards but you're better off trying to manually hold altitude with throttle and pitch trim adjustments. I would not trust that thing to save my life in the event of spatial disorientation and I understand why others would be hesitant to trust an autopilot if their first exposure to one was that bad.
@@peteranderson037 I am that 70's - 80's pilot and you hit the nail on the head
Life happens.no matter who you are.
How well do birds do if they get into inadvertent IMC?
I ate these brownies once, oh man talk about spatial disorientation!
American is the greatest country in the world. Because it has the greatest citizens in the world. Very interesting analysis.
I feel the hillside was more to blame for Kobe’s death than spatial disorientation.
20:57 Transfer the controls to somebody that is not spatial disorientated sounds fine but how would you know who is disorientated and who not?
If you’re the pilot flying and bend over and turn and get SD, then for sure you’re not the right choice. Odds are the pilot monitoring did not do the same movement you did .
@@TakingOff I understand that but what i was thinking about is that most people don't realise that they are spatial disorientated.
If you have lost visual view of where you’re heading due to fog or clouds , you automatically become disoriented
You’d know the instant you loose sight of your direction
Not true the atlas air FO was a substandard pilot documented by other airlines but not throughly investigated
So I am concluding that if a pilot can keep his eyes on his instruments during foggy conditions, then everything will be OK. Now what is so hard about that? Sure your body is lying to you. Are people really that weak minded? Skilled experienced pilots can't figure that out? They can't separate themselves from their initial impulses to remind themselves that they need to look at their instruments? What a weak minded species we are.
As a non pilot , Am I missing something?
JFK jr crash is another good example of this
Iron man suit will cause serious disoritation
🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟