Thanks for the inspiration! My first impression is that the whole workflow involves a lot of specific steps to make the kids as uninvolved into critical actions as possible, but that's fine. The risk which was not clear to me how to mitigate completely is when you start leading the next pitch and Jonny belays you: if you have a fall before your first express, you would fall into the redirect carabiner which on the video was really close to a belay device (and this potentially has a risk of deactivating it if belay device is pulled to the top in direction of your redirect carabiner). All in all, cool video!
Jason, I love how you are always open to feedback, it's one of the reasons I enjoy your channel. (Also find you very knowledgeable and easily understood.)
Rarely do I comment in videos on UA-cam, but just wanted to say that I really enjoy your videos. Very informative and clear. Thank you from New Zealand!
I can’t thank you enough for this video - it is so comprehensive and well written. I have foreseen being the more experienced climber in my circle, taking less experienced friends out more frequently than projecting my own goals. That is one reason I am taking an SPI course this summer - peace of mind for myself and the friends/family that I am taking out. The skill board deal comes at a great time as well! Thanks.
This is bad ass. I'll be taking my kids on their first "serious" outdoor climbing trip this summer, just belaying from top on long single-pitch sport routes. Such a great way to instill confidence, focus and problem solving skills - those are a couple of lucky kids to have a dad that treats them with this much respect and trust!
Man, just started this video and I’m so stoked. Thanks for covering this. Anything related to parents and how we can do more with the kiddos, love this. I’m going to do it anyway, way better to be safe :)
Great video! You are great with your kids. I have been wanting to take my kids on some easy multi pitch in Asheville but felt uneasy about the process!
Jason, love the channel. I've learned so much! Thank you! I especially appreciate the skills directed toward climbing with kids. The fixed point belay with the grigri is a brilliant idea for climbing with the little ones. I was wondering, is there a way to build a trad anchor for a similar setup? Maybe a second separate bidirectional anchor to hang the grigri from? I appreciate all the hard work! Thanks!
Thanks! Alot of useful information. I have one concern: Just in Case you take a fall and you said it your self: the whole belay system will be yanked up. This could potentially hurt the children, so i would propose to add another cam / securing point on the bottom, that keeps the system in place, in case it gets pulled up. Best regards
Hello, thx for the video it is extremely useful. Just wanted to know, at the last part of video your elder son went down with rappel but I didn t see any break system, is that ok to do so? Or maybe I missed something? Thank you
Yes, if you try to make the rope stay perfectly in line, then you can prevent twists. If you see twists forming, immediately try to rearrange the rope so it is not twisting as it passes through the grigri, it should be easily fixable if addressed immediately. If you try to fight it, then it just gets worse
Nice video. Question on the rappel: If you were rapelling off a tree for example and didn't have the rappel rings to potentially stop the knot while a heavier and much lighter climber simul-rappel on the grigri's - can you trust that the reverso/atc of the person waiting to rappel will prevent any slippage? Or do you have another safety measure? Thanks.
@@summitseekersexperience Would it make sense to use a canyoneering style biner block on the lighter climber's strand, then have that carabiner clipped around the heavier climbers strand for the tree rappel? This way if the heavy climber starts to pull the rope around the tree, the carabiner can cinch up tight on the tree and stop progress. Then you can pull the lighter climber's strand from the bottom to retrieve the ropes. I suppose if it cinched up too tight it might make retrieval a pain, but it seemed like an option in my head.
@summitseekersexperience, can you speak some on direct belaying on a GriGri? I think I heard you state that this is meant as more of an emergency belay situation, since you should be doing pretty basic/easy stuff, but I think highlighting that that usecase is out of recommended spec might be good. The risk balance in this scenario and not having a tiny person bely on an ATC/Munter is understandable. Also. . . not that I should be telling you anything. . . but I think a fixed-point should be limited to about 20cm of travel. So if we're avoiding using the primary anchor as the fixed point, would a banshee be a better option here?
Both of your points are correct. And reasons I violated them are also correct (trying to keep stuff simpler for kids and I basically knew I wasn’t going to fall). I plan to do a follow up video on this subject to highlight some misses and gaps… feel free to suggest more improvements and I can include them
@@summitseekersexperience with your experience and knowledge of pre-rigging I think your system and reasoning is dead on. The fact that you're willing to hang it out there and participate in some discourse, just makes it better. Keep up the good work!
That was so dangerous rappelling like that! I was pulling my son up when we were on both ends of the rope with each on the gri gri! I would not do that ever again
Very interesting; thanks for this video- a couple of things I need to triple check in how we Germans usually do it. Firstly I need to check what exactly a firemans belay is and why it is okay for Johnny to not use a third hand- Secondly it kinda freaks me out to have someone rappel on the non-blocked strand- if anything were to happen to the heavier persons strand... not only would that person be hitting the deck, but also the lighter person on the non-blocked strand. Or is this only okay because Johnny is also effectively blocking both strands with the standard atc extended rappel method?
Effectively Johnny is blocking the strands from going through simply by just holding down the break… but it would have been better practice to have the heavier person in the blocked side. The fireman’s is completely sufficient and preferable in this scenario because a third hand would suck Johnny into the wall when the system was loaded with the first rappellers.
There were definitely multiple opportunities for my kids to clip less at risk, I tried to not show the most efficient way as there’s no way they would do it efficiently with me at the next belay
That's great. Easy enough for the "shorter" ones? I have not been to the looking glass. I am in the process of researching routes for my family in the Carolinas. Thanks for the info.
@@andrewj5988 yeah, I just pull them through some of the high steps. If you live closer to Linville/Tablerock, the prow or Jim dandy to block route would be an option
Just started in the gym on the kiddie features climbing around on those and worked our way up. Getting them around it regularly makes it much more normalized.
When rappelling with a Grigri *your hand* is the backup to the Grigri's braking function. An ATC has no braking function at all, so similarly in that case your hand is backing up the braking function of the prusik.
Just to officially reply, a third hand is not proper with use of a grigri on rappel. If I was nervous that she could not manage the grigri properly, a good solution would be to tether her to me with a long sling
@@robson3954 one mod (I put it in the video on text but just to confirm): don’t clip the indirect off the anchor as it could jam the grigri. Clip your first pro piece at least 10 or so feet away. Have fun!!!
Thanks for the inspiration!
My first impression is that the whole workflow involves a lot of specific steps to make the kids as uninvolved into critical actions as possible, but that's fine.
The risk which was not clear to me how to mitigate completely is when you start leading the next pitch and Jonny belays you: if you have a fall before your first express, you would fall into the redirect carabiner which on the video was really close to a belay device (and this potentially has a risk of deactivating it if belay device is pulled to the top in direction of your redirect carabiner).
All in all, cool video!
Yeah, it was definitely an error clipping the redirect. I tried to highlight in text in the video but I’ll pin this comment as well.
Sweet kids. Patient Dad. Really appreciate it Jason! I got 3 youngsters who are learning to climb too!
Jason, I love how you are always open to feedback, it's one of the reasons I enjoy your channel. (Also find you very knowledgeable and easily understood.)
For sure… definitely trying to foster a learning environment where people aren’t scared to pose questions or ideas
Rarely do I comment in videos on UA-cam, but just wanted to say that I really enjoy your videos. Very informative and clear. Thank you from New Zealand!
This is such a great tutorial. It’s been helpful for me thinking about taking two fully grown but inexperienced adults up a multi pitch!
Yep, same deal, they need a lot of special attention
Agreed! This is the exact scenario I imagine with my brother-in-law and his son (that is the one really getting into climbing).
I can’t thank you enough for this video - it is so comprehensive and well written. I have foreseen being the more experienced climber in my circle, taking less experienced friends out more frequently than projecting my own goals. That is one reason I am taking an SPI course this summer - peace of mind for myself and the friends/family that I am taking out. The skill board deal comes at a great time as well! Thanks.
This is bad ass. I'll be taking my kids on their first "serious" outdoor climbing trip this summer, just belaying from top on long single-pitch sport routes. Such a great way to instill confidence, focus and problem solving skills - those are a couple of lucky kids to have a dad that treats them with this much respect and trust!
Can you show how you started the climb, how you were belayed from the floor?
Man, just started this video and I’m so stoked. Thanks for covering this. Anything related to parents and how we can do more with the kiddos, love this. I’m going to do it anyway, way better to be safe :)
I really appreciate the content you create! Thank you!!
For sure!
I really appreciate this content. What you are describing is literally my idea of a perfect day with my kids… in a few years . The are .75 and 6…
I was surprised how much I enjoyed it… I mean, I expected to… but it was more rewarding than anticipated
Thanks for this video. Mine are still a bit too small for this, but I'm saving it in a playlist for later.
Great video! You are great with your kids. I have been wanting to take my kids on some easy multi pitch in Asheville but felt uneasy about the process!
Yeah, understandable. Easing them into it with single pitch belay from the top helps a lot.
Jason, love the channel. I've learned so much! Thank you! I especially appreciate the skills directed toward climbing with kids. The fixed point belay with the grigri is a brilliant idea for climbing with the little ones. I was wondering, is there a way to build a trad anchor for a similar setup? Maybe a second separate bidirectional anchor to hang the grigri from? I appreciate all the hard work! Thanks!
couldn't love this video more!
This is fantastic.
Thanks! Alot of useful information. I have one concern: Just in Case you take a fall and you said it your self: the whole belay system will be yanked up. This could potentially hurt the children, so i would propose to add another cam / securing point on the bottom, that keeps the system in place, in case it gets pulled up.
Best regards
I had the same thought. The kid either has to let the rope slide through their hand, or they will end up trying to hand one handed to the rope.
Hello, thx for the video it is extremely useful. Just wanted to know, at the last part of video your elder son went down with rappel but I didn t see any break system, is that ok to do so? Or maybe I missed something? Thank you
so amazing i learn so lot from this video, i found new trick here
Do you use a ground anchor for the belay device for the first pitch?
Yes, I didn’t show that, but I tied off to a tree for the ground anchor with the same setup
I've found doing the Grigri rappel puts twist in the rope, at least with two ropes tied together. Any tips?
Yes, if you try to make the rope stay perfectly in line, then you can prevent twists. If you see twists forming, immediately try to rearrange the rope so it is not twisting as it passes through the grigri, it should be easily fixable if addressed immediately. If you try to fight it, then it just gets worse
Nice video. Question on the rappel: If you were rapelling off a tree for example and didn't have the rappel rings to potentially stop the knot while a heavier and much lighter climber simul-rappel on the grigri's - can you trust that the reverso/atc of the person waiting to rappel will prevent any slippage? Or do you have another safety measure? Thanks.
Tree rappel would not be ideal for this setup
@@summitseekersexperience Would it make sense to use a canyoneering style biner block on the lighter climber's strand, then have that carabiner clipped around the heavier climbers strand for the tree rappel? This way if the heavy climber starts to pull the rope around the tree, the carabiner can cinch up tight on the tree and stop progress. Then you can pull the lighter climber's strand from the bottom to retrieve the ropes. I suppose if it cinched up too tight it might make retrieval a pain, but it seemed like an option in my head.
@summitseekersexperience, can you speak some on direct belaying on a GriGri? I think I heard you state that this is meant as more of an emergency belay situation, since you should be doing pretty basic/easy stuff, but I think highlighting that that usecase is out of recommended spec might be good. The risk balance in this scenario and not having a tiny person bely on an ATC/Munter is understandable.
Also. . . not that I should be telling you anything. . . but I think a fixed-point should be limited to about 20cm of travel. So if we're avoiding using the primary anchor as the fixed point, would a banshee be a better option here?
Both of your points are correct. And reasons I violated them are also correct (trying to keep stuff simpler for kids and I basically knew I wasn’t going to fall).
I plan to do a follow up video on this subject to highlight some misses and gaps… feel free to suggest more improvements and I can include them
@@summitseekersexperience with your experience and knowledge of pre-rigging I think your system and reasoning is dead on. The fact that you're willing to hang it out there and participate in some discourse, just makes it better.
Keep up the good work!
@@ryenschimerman2127 thanks for the encouragement
That was so dangerous rappelling like that! I was pulling my son up when we were on both ends of the rope with each on the gri gri! I would not do that ever again
Very interesting; thanks for this video- a couple of things I need to triple check in how we Germans usually do it. Firstly I need to check what exactly a firemans belay is and why it is okay for Johnny to not use a third hand- Secondly it kinda freaks me out to have someone rappel on the non-blocked strand- if anything were to happen to the heavier persons strand... not only would that person be hitting the deck, but also the lighter person on the non-blocked strand.
Or is this only okay because Johnny is also effectively blocking both strands with the standard atc extended rappel method?
Effectively Johnny is blocking the strands from going through simply by just holding down the break… but it would have been better practice to have the heavier person in the blocked side. The fireman’s is completely sufficient and preferable in this scenario because a third hand would suck Johnny into the wall when the system was loaded with the first rappellers.
In the unlikely event that you fall on lead, wouldn't Johnny's hands get burned on the rope before the gri gri locked up? Great content.
Snake in a hold?!?! New fear unlocked.
if your kid hold on to the dead end of the rope would that still propel them up?
At 14:45 could your daughter not clip the carabineer to herself first, then remove the clove hitch, to avoid any risk of dropping it?
There were definitely multiple opportunities for my kids to clip less at risk, I tried to not show the most efficient way as there’s no way they would do it efficiently with me at the next belay
@@summitseekersexperience fair
How can I make a belay station for practice
Buy a skillz board (see video description for info)
Hey Jason. What route/area did you guys climb?
Looking Glass - Nose… nothing wrong with a classic 😉😉
That's great. Easy enough for the "shorter" ones? I have not been to the looking glass. I am in the process of researching routes for my family in the Carolinas. Thanks for the info.
@@andrewj5988 yeah, I just pull them through some of the high steps. If you live closer to Linville/Tablerock, the prow or Jim dandy to block route would be an option
Outside, inside, underneath!
Rappelling on a gri gri was the most dangerous thing I’ve ever done
🤘
I have no idea how to persuade my own child to bouldering not to mention panel or rock...how did you do it :) ?
Just started in the gym on the kiddie features climbing around on those and worked our way up. Getting them around it regularly makes it much more normalized.
@@summitseekersexperience It is gona be worst battle in this War. My have 13 yo. I am "fighting" 2 years...
You daughter abseils using a gri-gri with no backup? No third hand? Did I miss something?
When rappelling with a Grigri *your hand* is the backup to the Grigri's braking function. An ATC has no braking function at all, so similarly in that case your hand is backing up the braking function of the prusik.
Just to officially reply, a third hand is not proper with use of a grigri on rappel. If I was nervous that she could not manage the grigri properly, a good solution would be to tether her to me with a long sling
@@summitseekersexperience This is what I plan on doing with my daughter on our first easy multi next week.
@@robson3954 one mod (I put it in the video on text but just to confirm): don’t clip the indirect off the anchor as it could jam the grigri. Clip your first pro piece at least 10 or so feet away. Have fun!!!
Dont take your kids multipitching based on something you saw in a youtube video.