The fall of Celebrimbor was captivating and heartbreaking-say what you want of the show, but the mental unraveling of this strong and vibrant character was masterfully done.
I know everyone rags on this show all the time. But they must admit. This scene has some incredible acting from both Sauron and especially Celebrimbor.
I think my absolute favourite moments from this encounter is Celebrimbor’s assertion that no agent of the Valar would do what Annatar has done because he’s absolutely right. It’s that moment where Sauron’s veneer of control breaks and that little cheek twitch Charlie Vickers does is amazing.
Came to the comments for this. That facial twitch is legitimately one of the most captivating moments of acting I've seen in ages, and it's refreshing how often this season I felt the scenes with these two truly gripping and tragic.
What a truly frightening experience this must have been for Celebrimbor. His home is literally falling apart around him, his forge lies in ruins, his fellow elves are dying by the scores, and his grip on whatever sanity he has left is tenuous. To add insult to injury, he's completely alone save for the presence of Sauron, whose true identity he has just learned, and he hasn't even yet reached the nadir of his ordeal.
It really sucks that there are people in this world, and theirs, that were born with limitless talent and grew up with the best of intentions on utilizing that talent, only to be taken advantage of by some evil, never realizing their true potential. And in the real world, there are millions of those well-intentioned and talented people. And millions of unsavory, selfish people are taking advantage of them. I'm grateful for stories like these to remind me which side I should be on.
You can say what you want about this show but the Sauron and Celebrimbor storyline was absolute peak acting. It makes every other storyline seem so dull
Once he's revealed, Sauron is a master at deflecting blame onto the victim. To Celebrimbor - "You sought peace, I gave it to you." To Galadriel - "I told you I found this on the dead man."
Man his 'friendship' with Celebrimbor was my favorite part of this season. The deflection and shifting of the blame with handbook abuser lines like "look at what you've made me do to you / done to yourself", I was just so SAD for poor Celebrimbor, I kept saying to my partner "no, no no no we don't want this for him" 😭
Say what you will about this show (and I really do have my reservations), but the whole ordeal with Celembrimbor and Annatar is actually quite captivating and well-acted. Even when there wasn't any animosity between them, the sheer joy of creating was nicely conveyed.
It's not wholly bad like some would have you believe and it's rather good in parts. Vickers and Edwards are really fantastic. It suffers due to the filler crap like the Gandalf and the proto Hobbits which no doubt some executive at Amazon asked for. It's also poorly written in parts, sloppy dialogue and just being in the right place at the right time moments. It's not as good as it could be but it's no where near as bad as the Misérables out there make it out to be.
@@blairrobert3438 true. it follows the writing of one of the greatest piece of literature ever, and they reinvented some parts. and so it's, obviusly, worse overall then the originl. doesn't make it bad in his own right. just worse than the fucking silmarillon. the gandalf part is very bad, the numinor part is a bit strange, and the death of sauron at the beginning was bad. but annatar is really really cool, and everything else if fine if not straight up cool
@@blairrobert3438 Well said. Some of the acting in ROP is actually better than some scenes in LOTR, irrefutable. Is it over all better, of course not, not even close but some of the actors are at the very least on par with what we seen in LOTR, but you cant reason with over zealous, over dramatic fanboys. Vickers and Edwards are at the top of their game and frankly are carrying the show. Too many sissies just cant stfu and stop complaining about every g damn thing, there's nothing good enough foe these whining emo trolls. If tolkien came back from the dead and directed his own content, on life some mofo would complain!
It's absolutely been my favorite part of the show after what felt like a rough season 1. Celebrimbor was such a compelling character and his manipulation as well as decline into madness is incredibly believeable.
The contrast between Celebrimbor's dirty face, the ruin of the forge, the seiged city, versus the composure and cleanliness of Sauron is chilling. He is in complete control and just watches while Celebrimbor falls apart.
I was really having trouble with this episode because Sauron reminds me way too much of how my brother acted when he was being abusive. Too calm, too "rational" and because of that, people believed him over me
Sauron showing the cut on his hand is quite a callback to the films. Therenwas a deleted scene from FotR where Sauron created one ring by mixing his blood with the gold.
@fantasywind3923 Yeah, the part where Sauron is in the depth of Mt. Doom and you can see Sauron holding a knife. He used the knife to cut his hand to make the one ring
The acting quality in that long take is just insane! And the actors didn't see Ost-in-Edhil being blown to smithereens outside the balcony, just a greenscreen.
@@Flüjænør Because it might have some good things here and there, won't change the bad people do not like. Remember the hobbit movies? people roasted them endlessly while at the same time talked about the good things they liked. I don't like the show but I do think Sauron's actor is great, I felt iffy about celebrimbor casting but the actor did a fine job.
@@Flüjænørcause this clip leaves alot to be desired. Some cool bits, some bad acting decisions It's emblematic of the show as a whole from what I hear
Eventhough many people hate the show. But you can't deny and agree that Charlie Vickers really killing it as Annatar (Sauron), he is very cunning, manipulative, intimidating. It gaves me Sith Lord vibes
The best piece of acting in the show is when Celebrimbor says “what?” He is completely dumbstruck and distraught. It is like he is saying “I knew things were bad but wtf is this and how did you do this?” Masterclass in acting. Charlie Vickers as Sauron is incredible as well! Can’t wait for next episode! Poor Celebrimbor 💔💔💔
The whole scene with the blood gets me. I mean, think about realizing that you have been touching someone's blood. He's likely covered in Sauron's blood. That's disgusting.
I love that admiring look Sauron gives Celebrimbor when he shows him the candle which never burnt. Sauron knows Celebrimbor is so brilliant as a master craftsman that he could spot smudges in his illusion. Illusions even created by Sauron the Great Deceiver. This thing is a masterpiece.
More one scene that shows how much Sauron is a truly narcissist that doesn't really believe what he's doing is bad or wrong, or at least wants people to think that way. His rage when Calabrimbor says "No emissary of the Valar would do this", his face is like "yeah, I'm not, but how dare you suppose this of me, how dare you say it?"
@@Benetkabc2nd true fan of LOTR? really? did you enjoyed this lame depiction of Sauron "the politician", so weak and pathetic that was trying to convince a bunch of orcs to join him but instead got "killed", seriously? Sauron was pretty much a representation of the devil of christian religiom. He dominated the orcs, instilling fear in them with his mere presence. You are not true fan at all, otherwise you would know how much they've changed the lore, giving us a commercial product, with such a poor narrative that they even copy some of the visual narrative of the LOTR film but with complete lack of coherence. Characters so deformed and far from the books that makes no sense. Elrond kissing Galadriel? his own mother in law¡ And I dont even want to mention the asians and black, absolutely ridiculous.
Both Charlie's have been a joy to watch in this series. Halbrand and Annatar are two of the best characters, not least because of Charlie Vickers's performances.
@marksmith3947 I agree. I wasn't so sure in the beginning. All I knew the actor Robert Aramayo from was playing young Ned Stark in GoT. But he's grown on me as Elrond too... especially season 2 with the curly hair. It's working for him.
Charles Edwards did such a brilliant job with Celebrimbor. Even though I wasn't satisfied at first, they really managed to break my heart for him in this scene, and I'm anxious of what we'll probably see next week. But Charlie Vickers is a f*ing force of nature! My worst fear, that they wouldn't get Sauron right... Boy, did they deliver. Vickers nuanced acting is absolutely amazing. He charmed me at first, but makes my skin crawl and my blood run cold now. After scolding the first season massively, I am completely sold now - mainly because of him. Saurons divine, undying majesty, as well as his absolutely conscienceless cruelty and his boundless narcissism... They hit the nail on the head. His face as Celebrimbor shows him the details of the time loop - you can almost hear his patience leak like a hissing, steaming pipe, until it explodes in this awesome "Now.!! I WANT ... THE NINE!!!". I'll really miss this chapter, just as much as I look forward to Saurons apocalyptic schemes in [SPOILER] now!
As one of my family members said: They really cast the right guy for Sauron. He's appropriately subtle in his manipulation and gaslighting, and calmly terrifying. The minute details of Sauron's actions are what make him a threat as he comes as a friend but seeks destruction. I think Tolkien being Catholic was definitely influenced by by the verse "Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light". Yes I'm aware Morgoth is technically supposed to be the Satan of Middle Earth but Sauron definitely took influence from him. Seeking domination over all life but appearing as an emmisary from the Valar.
I really love how the two Charlies work together in these scenes. There's that manipulation and cruelty, but also this general vulnerability I wasn't expecting.
Depicting Sauron as a gaslighting narcissist was an amazing decision. I loved the delivery of "a mouse scurries by and you fly to pieces, listen to yourself!"
The understated comedy of Celebrimbor’s subtle head nod and Sauron’s “Captivating” is so hilarious and doesn’t feel forced at all. Sauron is so fed up with Celebrimbor. He is thinking “This guy really is crazy! I can’t wait to kill this guy.” Sauron’s impatience turns to anger when Celebrimbor figures out his illusion. “I WANT THE NINE!” So well written and acted! Cannot wait for the final episode! 💔💔💔
For me, its at 0:44 with his understated, “Oh, for fuck’s sake,” expression when Celebrimbor’s going over the details of Sauron’s loop illusion. It’s great lol
*After Celebrimbor's realization* Sauron: ooh dear seems our little game of deception's over ah well no matter the look on your face is just as priceless to see that you were fooled not that your epiphany changes anything in the long run Celebrimbor
In the texts Celebrimbor threw Annatar out of Eregion, after he had put on the one Ring and had revealed himself. Also, all the Elves took off their rings so they could not be controlled. Sauron revealed himself, declared war against Eregion and the Dwarves, and Celebrimbor ended up impaled on Sauron's battle standard.
Yeah, it's very dark what happened to Eregion and Celebrimbor. I do wish they stayed more true to the actual lore but both Charlie's did great. Best part of the whole season.
For once, he is telling the truth. In Tolkien's universe, in order to have power over something or someone or to create something powerful, a powerful spirit like a Vala or Maia must spend his own power and essence onto it. That is why in the very beginning Morgoth is the most powerful of the Valar, able to fight them all, but in the end, after corrupting Elves into Orcs, creating dragons and other horrible monsters, he was weakened to a point where he was afraid to fight Fingolfin in a duel and was defeated by a few Maiar in the War of Wrath. Sauron put most of his power and essence into the One Ring, and blood is a good way of showing that. When the Ring was destroyed, Sauron was weakened to the point of being powerless.
There was a similar scene in the original lotr trilogy, fellowship of the ring, where there was a scene, where sauron carried a gold at his left hand, he then stabbed his left hand with a sword in his right hand, then the blood of his hand mixed with the molten gold, Transforming into the one ring, but that scene was cut out
Top three scenes in the show for me, I love what they did with the Annatar/Sauron and Celebrimbor dynamic. That storyline gave me exactly what I was hoping for
WHEN I SEE CELEBRIMBOR CRYING, THAT JUST BREAKS MY HEART SINCE HE NOTICED THAT HE WAS BEING USED BY ANNATAR/SAURON FOR THE RINGS AND MORE..AND THE ILLUSION WAS BY SAURON BY HIS POWER OF PEACE AND MORE
I like all the little mundane stuff that Sauron has to take the time to look at/focus on because you know he couldn't care less but has to put effort into it. It's like if a god had to wait in line at Starbucks and order manually and pay with cash because he couldn't just magic it into existence.
The way Sauron has manipulated Celebrimbor has been so masterful that when he shouted "I WANT *THE NINE* !!!!!!" at Celebrimbor I flinched and when he turned his hand... I was in denial... there was no way, right? No way he would replace Mithril with his own Unholy Blood... but it's true, isn't it? What better way to ensure The Nine bend while The Seven merely... break... and The Three endure. Only The One... can Bind The Seven and The Three... but The Nine? They were HIS CREATION. The best scene in television I have seen in a long time... perhaps ever...
@@rosesweetcharlotteVickers is good, but I find his acting strangely bland a lot of the time. This might be characterization - - Sauron doesn't have normal feelings and fakes it a lot
I really identified with Celebrimbor in this scene. Anyone who has ever put everything into something and had someone else take it from you would understand.
No matter what I think of the show as a whole; the portrayal of a god of manipulation was pinpoint and inch perfect for me. An absolutely calculated and conniving snake who will burn entire worlds to the ground, smile and then convince you it was your doing
Yikes... Celebrimbor is very powerful, and knowledgeable, and yet Sauron is basically an eldritch horror or a demented god in comparison. So completely beyond him that Celebrimbor has no hope to resist. All that remains in Celebrimbor's future is horror, torment, and death.
@@david2012slayer How many books you read? I keep hearing this from people who haven't read most of Tolkiens books like I have. ie your probably not a true fan of the work. Most idiots who comment have seen the movies and call those cannon these days which makes me laugh. They are great movies but took huge liberties, Sauron's depiction being one of the biggest. This show gets Sauron more correct than the movies did.
@@benross9174 Not at all, He tells you about the battles he lead in the front lines against Sauron. We see him beating Sauron single handly until the ring betrayed him.
People might have had their reservations, but Charles Edwards as Celebrimbor and Charlie Vickers as Annatar have done a marvellous job. This scene was brilliant! Well acted and truly fleshed out this relationship. This is what Season 1 should have had.
Notice too that Sauron's sorcery is causing a TIME bubble where Celebrimbor is literally over working himself to death without knowing how much time has passed because Sauron wants him to make the nine rings which is part of the reason for the sorcery to mimic a short time being repeated over and over again and while Celebrimbor is efficient at working on the rings, he is under Sauron's sorcery which may also be keeping him awake and untired but for the purpose of making the nine rings, after which Sauron could take the rings and leave or give further instructions or kill Celebrimbor because he is also trying to get into his mind to cater to his ego of being a great work smith and craft smith.
@@bankhead832 hate the production and the messages of the show i don’t hate every aspect of it , I love Sauron part of the show he’s the only good thing
Hardcore lotr dudes hate the show yes, its very hard to bring tolkiens world into theatres but peter jackson did it. This show is horrible in many ways , casting choices ridiculous plot, thousand year old elves crying when theyre told no.if u enjoy it no ones stopping you@@bankhead832
this scene, thiS SCENE RIGHT HERE!!! CINEE!!!! so good, so satisfying and at the same time i feel so bad for poor celebrimbor. Charlie vickers' Sauron gives me the creeps, he's so good!!!!!
Elrond and Durin have one of the best friendships ever put to screen. Elendil is quickly becoming my favorite character on the show. Galadriel’s turn during the last two episodes of season 1 is beautifully written. The list goes on, but I appreciate that the best moments on this show are not in the battles, but in the intimate character moments.
If this is the plot line they were going for, they should have devoted the show to it. Take the whole 500 years that Sauron spent there in the Silmarillion. Let the audience know who he is and watch as he ingratiates himself with the Elves. Toss in someone that slowly begins to figure it out, but is too late to stop the destruction at the end. They could almost turn it into a thriller, or a detective story, rather than trying to cram everything together like they did.
Don’t understand the hate for this show. I think it’s fantastic. Charles Edwards is absolutely phenomenal an actor and beside Charlie Vickers - they’re both very talented.
I had so many doubts after the first season, but this one scene convinced me that there just might be something good happening here... the acting, the dialog, the tension. Hmmmm, might be looking forward to Season 3.
@@jeffhall1442 Same I'm a huge fan of the Tolkien books and these two actors absolutely knocked it out the park. The music too in this scene is haunting when the spell is broken.
Well i agree people overhate it to a degree thats unfair. However, the elves didnt look like elves in the slighest and the Dark wizard thign was kinda cheesy. I hope it isnt sarumann because he isnt evil at this point in time even if he was still in Valinor. But i liked it overall. But the isildur and theo thing was kinda weak and the numenor plot was the weakest mostly because it didnt feel as important imo. Also the costume for numenorians were bad for a production like this. The show in general is good and i hope for a season 3 :D
For all of the show's flaws, this plotline is amazing. I think they are doing a great job of capturing what an abusive relationship actually looks like in real life, despite the fantasy backdrop of the story. When a lot of folks think of domestic violence usually they think of physical violence. But what the show is doing a great job of showing is that it's the psychological and emotional abuse that is far more insidious and damaging. In our own world this is routinely downplayed - in the court systems especially. Victims are told to just "get over it" or pretend like it didn't happen and carry on trying co-exist with this person, especially if they have a child together. For most of their time together, Sauron rarely raises his voice or is physically violent...and yet he is responsible for all of the chaos and destruction that surrounds Celebrimbor. The elves helping with the creation of the rings are on edge, trying to meet Sauron's expectations which will never be met regardless of the quality of the work. Celebrimbor begins to question his reality and whether he is losing his mind. Like this particular scene, the show takes this a step further by having Sauron use actual magic to create reality distorting illusions...But this is a perfect metaphor for how real life abusers operate. In a sense, they also create "illusions" around their victims to keep them isolated, under a false sense of security, while questioning their own sanity. To top it all off, when Celebrimbor tries to "leave" the relationship and stop working on the rings, he sounds crazy to the other elves when he talks about what has been done to him. Sauron calmly and rationally swoops in right on queue, and makes it seem like Celebrimbor is the problem and going crazy. Celebrimbor is disheveled, frantic, and terrified, while Sauron is calm, clean and collected. We all know who the other elves believed... Similarly, who do you think court systems routinely believe in our world? More often than not, THIS is what domestic violence, or any kind of abusive relationship dynamic looks like. It's not about physically imposing your will on someone. It's about creating such a chaotic mess, and making everyone so confused, that people cannot trust what is in front of their eyes, hiding in plain sight.
Tolkien was a devout Christian and it was clear that Sauron was the representation of Lucifer in his Lord of the Rings books. This scene clearly shows that. I actually enjoyed this series despite its flaws, it really gives you a great insight to the beginning of the war of the rings.
Charlie killed it as annatar , I'm guessing we will see his dark lord form real soon he's got the 9 he needs to craft the one ring to rule them all and he's reunited with the crown of morgoth we need to see more of saurons dark lord form on the big screen im guessing this series will end around the same time as lotr fellowship of the ring opening begins
This has been such a massive improvement from season one. Anyone hating on the show now is just hating to hate without any actual reason. The standout is obviously Annatar/Sauron Celebrimbor as well. But this really feels like lotr
@@aerystargaryenii2565 you get what I mean smartass it feels like it belongs in the lord of the rings universe and world vs season one that felt very much out of place.
The battle in the latest episode was the most non sensical sequence of events ive ever seen in a tv show or movie. It was very badly put together. The show has some good moments, mostly when its between 2 characters, but overall I would still put it at below mediocre.
kid just because you like it that alone dont make it good you dvmb fucc lol i like the wolverine x men origenes wolverine but i know it is trash you should see it like it is too
Do you really think that the elfs are in the same category of toughs of men? They are much more above, but they are portrait as young naive people . This is bad writing
Man this was a great scene. Celebrimbor really felt like the main character of the whole season, and this was the climactic moment of the whole plotline. And so amazingly well-acted.
![The Hobbit - The Desolation of Smaug - The Enemy Revealed - Gandalf vs. Sauron [ HDR - 4K - 5.1 ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/toayTeGxDtM/mqdefault.jpg)
Celebrimbor recognized a glitch in Saurons matrix.
😢😢😢😮
A smith can recognize when the pieces don’t weld together right…
@@matthewriley7826let this man cook
Hes smarter calimbrembor realizes the illusion Loop
@@ahmadabdulwahid9148 6+.bbbbbbbñ,vil,van,ñbvñ,vil,bvt,Lvb,lvtlb,5l,btblvt,cycling,but
The fall of Celebrimbor was captivating and heartbreaking-say what you want of the show, but the mental unraveling of this strong and vibrant character was masterfully done.
Sauron, Lord of the Gaslights.
He is an emissary of a Valar, just not the Valar anyone wishes to mention or even think of.
I know everyone rags on this show all the time. But they must admit. This scene has some incredible acting from both Sauron and especially Celebrimbor.
I think my absolute favourite moments from this encounter is Celebrimbor’s assertion that no agent of the Valar would do what Annatar has done because he’s absolutely right. It’s that moment where Sauron’s veneer of control breaks and that little cheek twitch Charlie Vickers does is amazing.
For all this shows flaws, Charlie Vickers truly is an amazing Sauron. The show runners were right to keep him as Annatar in season 2
Came to the comments for this. That facial twitch is legitimately one of the most captivating moments of acting I've seen in ages, and it's refreshing how often this season I felt the scenes with these two truly gripping and tragic.
For some reason the "Shhhs shshhs shs shshh" will go down in my memory as the single most insulting way one has ever spoken to Sauron.
Loved this storyline in S2. Masterful acting and so tragic. A++
What a truly frightening experience this must have been for Celebrimbor. His home is literally falling apart around him, his forge lies in ruins, his fellow elves are dying by the scores, and his grip on whatever sanity he has left is tenuous. To add insult to injury, he's completely alone save for the presence of Sauron, whose true identity he has just learned, and he hasn't even yet reached the nadir of his ordeal.
It really sucks that there are people in this world, and theirs, that were born with limitless talent and grew up with the best of intentions on utilizing that talent, only to be taken advantage of by some evil, never realizing their true potential. And in the real world, there are millions of those well-intentioned and talented people. And millions of unsavory, selfish people are taking advantage of them. I'm grateful for stories like these to remind me which side I should be on.
Sauron: "ITS ABOUT TIME! I've been dropping hints like crazy! "
Is that a hishe quote?
@@sabretoothstudios9142 real recognizes real🎈❤️❤️❤️❤️
That’s honestly what I was thinking while watching it
@@joetheinfant8891Yeah it was very obvious in hindsight lol.
You can say what you want about this show but the Sauron and Celebrimbor storyline was absolute peak acting. It makes every other storyline seem so dull
Damn he tricked him into thinking that was mithril instead he made the Nine rings with Sauron's own blood😂
Well, his blood mixed with the mithril
Once he's revealed, Sauron is a master at deflecting blame onto the victim.
To Celebrimbor - "You sought peace, I gave it to you."
To Galadriel - "I told you I found this on the dead man."
Man his 'friendship' with Celebrimbor was my favorite part of this season. The deflection and shifting of the blame with handbook abuser lines like "look at what you've made me do to you / done to yourself", I was just so SAD for poor Celebrimbor, I kept saying to my partner "no, no no no we don't want this for him" 😭
Master? He's just cringe.
Say what you will about this show (and I really do have my reservations), but the whole ordeal with Celembrimbor and Annatar is actually quite captivating and well-acted. Even when there wasn't any animosity between them, the sheer joy of creating was nicely conveyed.
It's not wholly bad like some would have you believe and it's rather good in parts. Vickers and Edwards are really fantastic. It suffers due to the filler crap like the Gandalf and the proto Hobbits which no doubt some executive at Amazon asked for. It's also poorly written in parts, sloppy dialogue and just being in the right place at the right time moments. It's not as good as it could be but it's no where near as bad as the Misérables out there make it out to be.
@@blairrobert3438 true. it follows the writing of one of the greatest piece of literature ever, and they reinvented some parts. and so it's, obviusly, worse overall then the originl. doesn't make it bad in his own right. just worse than the fucking silmarillon. the gandalf part is very bad, the numinor part is a bit strange, and the death of sauron at the beginning was bad. but annatar is really really cool, and everything else if fine if not straight up cool
@@blairrobert3438
Well said.
Some of the acting in ROP is actually better than some scenes in LOTR, irrefutable. Is it over all better, of course not, not even close but some of the actors are at the very least on par with what we seen in LOTR, but you cant reason with over zealous, over dramatic fanboys.
Vickers and Edwards are at the top of their game and frankly are carrying the show. Too many sissies just cant stfu and stop complaining about every g damn thing, there's nothing good enough foe these whining emo trolls. If tolkien came back from the dead and directed his own content, on life some mofo would complain!
It's absolutely been my favorite part of the show after what felt like a rough season 1. Celebrimbor was such a compelling character and his manipulation as well as decline into madness is incredibly believeable.
You what?@@lendial
The contrast between Celebrimbor's dirty face, the ruin of the forge, the seiged city, versus the composure and cleanliness of Sauron is chilling. He is in complete control and just watches while Celebrimbor falls apart.
I was really having trouble with this episode because Sauron reminds me way too much of how my brother acted when he was being abusive. Too calm, too "rational" and because of that, people believed him over me
this serie is garbage, that is not even close toTolkien's Sauron but a lame imitation
@@rosesweetcharlottewell yeah thata how psychopaths operate.
@@david2012slayerI agree but hes still far better than any other character on the show.
@@david2012slayer Sauron is the only good thing in this show.
Sauron was not only a master at deceiving and controlling others,but also he was a grand master at controlling himself to
Sauron showing the cut on his hand is quite a callback to the films. Therenwas a deleted scene from FotR where Sauron created one ring by mixing his blood with the gold.
In fact if you watch the scene in the movie closely, Sauron has a dagger in his left hand. It’s a blink and miss!
@@ashirvadinI saw it
@ashirvadin I noticed that! Crazy detail.
Well it was one of those thing they CUT out actually :)....only shades of it remain in the footage.
@fantasywind3923 Yeah, the part where Sauron is in the depth of Mt. Doom and you can see Sauron holding a knife. He used the knife to cut his hand to make the one ring
I first thought Celebrimbor was controlling the mouse with his finger. The mouse is like “Yeah you see me, hello and goodbye have a nice day!. lol 😂
It’s just so heartbreaking to see the look on celebrimbor’s face the moment he sees the destroyed city.
The acting quality in that long take is just insane! And the actors didn't see Ost-in-Edhil being blown to smithereens outside the balcony, just a greenscreen.
And the same people from season 1 are still shitting all over this show. How could some people not want to see this episode
@@Flüjænør Because it might have some good things here and there, won't change the bad people do not like. Remember the hobbit movies? people roasted them endlessly while at the same time talked about the good things they liked. I don't like the show but I do think Sauron's actor is great, I felt iffy about celebrimbor casting but the actor did a fine job.
@@Flüjænørcause this clip leaves alot to be desired. Some cool bits, some bad acting decisions
It's emblematic of the show as a whole from what I hear
@Flüjænør they aren't shitting on the show, they are pointing out the *show shit the bed*
Man I wish the whole show was as good as this
“I HAVE MANY NAMES” Gotta be the line of the show!
Lord of the names
Eventhough many people hate the show. But you can't deny and agree that Charlie Vickers really killing it as Annatar (Sauron), he is very cunning, manipulative, intimidating. It gaves me Sith Lord vibes
The end of a great family is so tragic.
Like noticing a looped video has been playing in your security camera to fool you.
Like that one Keanu Reeves movie
‘The Bus That Couldn’t Slow Down’
@@shawnthompson2303 kek
The Truman Show
@@shawnthompson2303LOL, The Simpsons...
The simpsons !!! Hahahaha @@shawnthompson2303
The best piece of acting in the show is when Celebrimbor says “what?” He is completely dumbstruck and distraught. It is like he is saying “I knew things were bad but wtf is this and how did you do this?” Masterclass in acting. Charlie Vickers as Sauron is incredible as well! Can’t wait for next episode! Poor Celebrimbor 💔💔💔
Yeah. The best actors emote rather than state their feelings, and we can easily read it from their faces.
The whole scene with the blood gets me. I mean, think about realizing that you have been touching someone's blood. He's likely covered in Sauron's blood. That's disgusting.
@@rosesweetcharlotteYeah that’s disgusting. I think that he used a spoon for the blood/mithril from the forging of the rings opening scene.
I love that admiring look Sauron gives Celebrimbor when he shows him the candle which never burnt. Sauron knows Celebrimbor is so brilliant as a master craftsman that he could spot smudges in his illusion. Illusions even created by Sauron the Great Deceiver. This thing is a masterpiece.
More one scene that shows how much Sauron is a truly narcissist that doesn't really believe what he's doing is bad or wrong, or at least wants people to think that way.
His rage when Calabrimbor says "No emissary of the Valar would do this", his face is like "yeah, I'm not, but how dare you suppose this of me, how dare you say it?"
I'm obsessed with this scene where Sauron says that true creation requires sacrifice. It's just so perfect. I can't stop rewatching it.
Poor soul enjoying Rings of Power
Hahahahahahahahahahah
Poor troll watching rings of power scenes like a peeping tom would wishing he could admit he is watching it
@@asier1059 Not a troll. Just a true Lord of the Rings fan :-) And UA-cam recommended this to me. Not seeking that show
@@Benetkabc2nd true fan of LOTR? really? did you enjoyed this lame depiction of Sauron "the politician", so weak and pathetic that was trying to convince a bunch of orcs to join him but instead got "killed", seriously? Sauron was pretty much a representation of the devil of christian religiom. He dominated the orcs, instilling fear in them with his mere presence. You are not true fan at all, otherwise you would know how much they've changed the lore, giving us a commercial product, with such a poor narrative that they even copy some of the visual narrative of the LOTR film but with complete lack of coherence. Characters so deformed and far from the books that makes no sense. Elrond kissing Galadriel? his own mother in law¡ And I dont even want to mention the asians and black, absolutely ridiculous.
Well that explains why nine men became ghost like enforcers loyal to Sauron.
2:50 Literally me walking through my house every day.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Your kids?
Please return to elementary grades and learn what literal means
@@MtnMania Please return to your goblin cave in Moria and don't learn what nuance or hyperbole or fun means.
I would have laughed at your funny comment but my house does looks like hordes of vagrant children ravaged it
One or my favorite uses of onscreen Illusion Magic. More cinema and sorcerery please. The two go along so well
"Captivating* 🤣🤣🤣🤣
That really got me.
When you are a pure evil demi god running out of time and you are forced to admire a fucking mouse.
I knew the great deceiver had a way with words but I applaud his choice there
Same!😂😂
Both Charlie's have been a joy to watch in this series. Halbrand and Annatar are two of the best characters, not least because of Charlie Vickers's performances.
Elrond has grown on me, and the actor is extremely handsome
@marksmith3947 I agree. I wasn't so sure in the beginning. All I knew the actor Robert Aramayo from was playing young Ned Stark in GoT. But he's grown on me as Elrond too... especially season 2 with the curly hair. It's working for him.
They all good! Expect Gandalf line! That whole line is terrible and not necessarily at all
Charles Edwards did such a brilliant job with Celebrimbor. Even though I wasn't satisfied at first, they really managed to break my heart for him in this scene, and I'm anxious of what we'll probably see next week. But Charlie Vickers is a f*ing force of nature! My worst fear, that they wouldn't get Sauron right... Boy, did they deliver.
Vickers nuanced acting is absolutely amazing. He charmed me at first, but makes my skin crawl and my blood run cold now. After scolding the first season massively, I am completely sold now - mainly because of him. Saurons divine, undying majesty, as well as his absolutely conscienceless cruelty and his boundless narcissism... They hit the nail on the head.
His face as Celebrimbor shows him the details of the time loop - you can almost hear his patience leak like a hissing, steaming pipe, until it explodes in this awesome "Now.!! I WANT ... THE NINE!!!". I'll really miss this chapter, just as much as I look forward to Saurons apocalyptic schemes in [SPOILER] now!
As one of my family members said: They really cast the right guy for Sauron. He's appropriately subtle in his manipulation and gaslighting, and calmly terrifying. The minute details of Sauron's actions are what make him a threat as he comes as a friend but seeks destruction. I think Tolkien being Catholic was definitely influenced by by the verse "Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light". Yes I'm aware Morgoth is technically supposed to be the Satan of Middle Earth but Sauron definitely took influence from him. Seeking domination over all life but appearing as an emmisary from the Valar.
And the later scenes with them especially were Sauron is tormenting celebrimbor shows how truly evil he is
I really love how the two Charlies work together in these scenes. There's that manipulation and cruelty, but also this general vulnerability I wasn't expecting.
Depicting Sauron as a gaslighting narcissist was an amazing decision. I loved the delivery of "a mouse scurries by and you fly to pieces, listen to yourself!"
Schill.
This is a goddamn good scene. Probably the best in the show.
The understated comedy of Celebrimbor’s subtle head nod and Sauron’s “Captivating” is so hilarious and doesn’t feel forced at all. Sauron is so fed up with Celebrimbor. He is thinking “This guy really is crazy! I can’t wait to kill this guy.” Sauron’s impatience turns to anger when Celebrimbor figures out his illusion. “I WANT THE NINE!” So well written and acted! Cannot wait for the final episode! 💔💔💔
For me, its at 0:44 with his understated, “Oh, for fuck’s sake,” expression when Celebrimbor’s going over the details of Sauron’s loop illusion. It’s great lol
*After Celebrimbor's realization*
Sauron: ooh dear seems our little game of deception's over ah well no matter the look on your face is just as priceless to see that you were fooled not that your epiphany changes anything in the long run Celebrimbor
Calibrimbor: You best hope I don't return as a wraith and possess the body of a Gondorian Ranger.
@@Cloofinder Sauron: Still wouldn't change shit because *in mockingly sing songy voice* I know something yooou doon't knooow
@@Cloofinder”Finally, all will fear me and rejoice!”
Ew cringe
Celebrimbor: * realises Annatar is Sauron *
Sauron: Oh, no! Anyway, last week...
1:51 The facial acting is so good here. You can see his barely contained rage
😅😅😅😅 I take it this is the first piece of media you've ever watched 😅😅😅😅😅
@@John-oo9pwOh to be such a cultured connoisseur like yourself 🙄
@@16Arson now now, I wouldn't dream that far....just aim for NOT being an uncultured swine....baby steps 🤣😅😆
I noticed that too. Very good acting he really nails the darkness of Sauron’s cunningness.
@@Unshackled. god
"I have many names."
"Now...I WANT THE NINE!"
"That line goes so fucking hard 🤯
Hardest line in the episode: "You truly are the Great Deceiver. You can deceive even yourself."
@@TheHeartlessFour that's a pretty hard one. Sauron is the biggest narcissist xD
Yawn....
Sounds shit tbh
No it does not! This show sucks so hard and all you fools are demonstrating your idiocy!
This scene put me through a wave of emotions. What a stark contrast between the very disappointing first season and now.
The one name he won’t abide, is the one all know him by.
In the texts Celebrimbor threw Annatar out of Eregion, after he had put on the one Ring and had revealed himself. Also, all the Elves took off their rings so they could not be controlled. Sauron revealed himself, declared war against Eregion and the Dwarves, and Celebrimbor ended up impaled on Sauron's battle standard.
Yeah, it's very dark what happened to Eregion and Celebrimbor. I do wish they stayed more true to the actual lore but both Charlie's did great. Best part of the whole season.
Absolutely love Celebrimbor & Sauron in season 2. Overall this season has truly stepped up compared to season one (I still enjoyed it as well)
8.5/10
when he say "true creation requires sacrifice", he is still trying to rationalize himself. True tricker
For once, he is telling the truth. In Tolkien's universe, in order to have power over something or someone or to create something powerful, a powerful spirit like a Vala or Maia must spend his own power and essence onto it. That is why in the very beginning Morgoth is the most powerful of the Valar, able to fight them all, but in the end, after corrupting Elves into Orcs, creating dragons and other horrible monsters, he was weakened to a point where he was afraid to fight Fingolfin in a duel and was defeated by a few Maiar in the War of Wrath. Sauron put most of his power and essence into the One Ring, and blood is a good way of showing that. When the Ring was destroyed, Sauron was weakened to the point of being powerless.
So he added his blood in the rings no wonder a lot of people crazy wearing them!!
Plus the Witch King and the Nazgul possessed some of Sauron’s powers.
The blood being forged in a ring was actually meant to be shown in the lotr intro but was cut. Thankfully they bring it back here
There was a similar scene in the original lotr trilogy, fellowship of the ring, where there was a scene, where sauron carried a gold at his left hand, he then stabbed his left hand with a sword in his right hand, then the blood of his hand mixed with the molten gold, Transforming into the one ring, but that scene was cut out
5:27 ua-cam.com/video/Zni9KHiG4CM/v-deo.html
This is the scene that made me hate Sauron. The way he lies, manipulates, deceives people is unnatural and cruel. It’s wicked, he’s wicked.
I mean, he is one of the top villians of all time. No one in their right mind would root for him
No? Instead, many people root for him because of how cool he is @@spiraling_madness
No, it is all to bring order
He is evil and emptiness incarnate. So makes sense.
Morgoth was worse in ways but then sauron has a way about him
the definition of deceiver in its true forms on all lvls
The guy was fond of telling he has many names.
Sauron is like the Antichrist
Indeed. Morgoth is devil.
@@sw-gsMelkor. Morgoth is a dis name given to him by Feanor
Its why this show is so stupid.
Morgoth is the Devil, and Sauron is a Demon, a follower of Morgoth.
@@JDozza Arch-Demon.
1:51 "Bitch, I am an emissary of the Valar"
2:27 - 3:27 Brilliantly shot oner! 👏
Top three scenes in the show for me, I love what they did with the Annatar/Sauron and Celebrimbor dynamic. That storyline gave me exactly what I was hoping for
Amazing scene among many others. This episode was incredible
WHEN I SEE CELEBRIMBOR CRYING, THAT JUST BREAKS MY HEART SINCE HE NOTICED THAT HE WAS BEING USED BY ANNATAR/SAURON FOR THE RINGS AND MORE..AND THE ILLUSION WAS BY SAURON BY HIS POWER OF PEACE AND MORE
i love it when annatar says Captivating
I like all the little mundane stuff that Sauron has to take the time to look at/focus on because you know he couldn't care less but has to put effort into it. It's like if a god had to wait in line at Starbucks and order manually and pay with cash because he couldn't just magic it into existence.
This scene was so strong. Literally the best in the show
The way Sauron has manipulated Celebrimbor has been so masterful that when he shouted "I WANT *THE NINE* !!!!!!" at Celebrimbor I flinched and when he turned his hand... I was in denial... there was no way, right? No way he would replace Mithril with his own Unholy Blood... but it's true, isn't it? What better way to ensure The Nine bend while The Seven merely... break... and The Three endure.
Only The One... can Bind The Seven and The Three... but The Nine? They were HIS CREATION.
The best scene in television I have seen in a long time... perhaps ever...
Are you seven or something 😅😅😅 it was pure piss 😅😅😅😅😅
@@sagesigman8269how much did amazon pay you lol
@@Joe-rk9uy you're cute. Accusing people of being your elders as if it's a bad thing... or even in doubt!
@@sagesigman8269how much did amazon pay you 😅😅😅
Truly hope Charles Edwards receives an Emmy for his performance as Lord Celebrimbor. This scene made me mouth opened the entire time!
spoilers:
we still have to appraise his perform when Sauron turns him into a flagpole
I want him and Charlie Vickers to both get nominations. They really did something special with these scenes
king viserys got nothing so..
@Shakounet02 Edwards’ performance is way more powerful and tragic.
@@rosesweetcharlotteVickers is good, but I find his acting strangely bland a lot of the time. This might be characterization - - Sauron doesn't have normal feelings and fakes it a lot
I really identified with Celebrimbor in this scene. Anyone who has ever put everything into something and had someone else take it from you would understand.
So true, as a creative, Celebrimbor's arc this season spoke to me in so many ways.
Kindness not only kill you, it also make your beloved city turn into the ashes..
No matter what I think of the show as a whole; the portrayal of a god of manipulation was pinpoint and inch perfect for me. An absolutely calculated and conniving snake who will burn entire worlds to the ground, smile and then convince you it was your doing
Yikes... Celebrimbor is very powerful, and knowledgeable, and yet Sauron is basically an eldritch horror or a demented god in comparison. So completely beyond him that Celebrimbor has no hope to resist. All that remains in Celebrimbor's future is horror, torment, and death.
One wig to fool them all, one wig to hide him...
Reminds me of Jim Carrey's Truman Show when Truman notices a loop.
Charles Edwards deservers an Emmy, masterful acting
lol you are sad
@@david2012slayernah that’s just you
@@david2012slayer great acting, but not a good actor for celebrimbor is 2 diffrent things my man chill
@@highelf6086 and bad script, bad character, bad adaptation, a bitch slap to tolkien's legacy
@@david2012slayer How many books you read? I keep hearing this from people who haven't read most of Tolkiens books like I have. ie your probably not a true fan of the work. Most idiots who comment have seen the movies and call those cannon these days which makes me laugh. They are great movies but took huge liberties, Sauron's depiction being one of the biggest. This show gets Sauron more correct than the movies did.
Seriously, everything about this scene is incredible. Both Charles Edwards and Charlie Vickers are giving their everything.
okay but this scene is so well acted and everything
Finish the Nine.
*And I will spare your city.*
🔥👁️🔥
Lol and the city was already destroyed.
The transformación of celembrimbor, is like golum, is amazing
Thats Hardly the Celebrimbor i saw in Shadows of Mordor and Shadows of war.
Yeah cause he was died and a ghost
@@benross9174 Not at all, He tells you about the battles he lead in the front lines against Sauron. We see him beating Sauron single handly until the ring betrayed him.
Those games are not canon. Hope that helps.
@@sweetbitter2 ROP is not canon either.
People might have had their reservations, but Charles Edwards as Celebrimbor and Charlie Vickers as Annatar have done a marvellous job. This scene was brilliant! Well acted and truly fleshed out this relationship. This is what Season 1 should have had.
The scene where he again calmly starts his introduction as with Galadriel...I am known by many names,confident & ceuel...gives goosebumps.
I kind've like Charlie VIckers, one of the few good things in Rings of Power
This show has a lot of problems in quality, but the whole illusion thing with celebrimbor I like very much.
CINEMA
Rings of Power
@@LucasSantos-uu8tc shite
Notice too that Sauron's sorcery is causing a TIME bubble where Celebrimbor is literally over working himself to death without knowing how much time has passed because Sauron wants him to make the nine rings which is part of the reason for the sorcery to mimic a short time being repeated over and over again and while Celebrimbor is efficient at working on the rings, he is under Sauron's sorcery which may also be keeping him awake and untired but for the purpose of making the nine rings, after which Sauron could take the rings and leave or give further instructions or kill Celebrimbor because he is also trying to get into his mind to cater to his ego of being a great work smith and craft smith.
Sauron carries the show
u hardcore lotr dudes really hate this show but continue to watch thye show is good all around to me and fills me
@@bankhead832 hate the production and the messages of the show i don’t hate every aspect of it , I love Sauron part of the show he’s the only good thing
Hardcore lotr dudes hate the show yes, its very hard to bring tolkiens world into theatres but peter jackson did it. This show is horrible in many ways , casting choices ridiculous plot, thousand year old elves crying when theyre told no.if u enjoy it no ones stopping you@@bankhead832
@@angryyoungman66yes, this guy is the only actor in the cast that atleast tries his best despite the horrible script.
I think the Dwarves do
this scene, thiS SCENE RIGHT HERE!!! CINEE!!!! so good, so satisfying and at the same time i feel so bad for poor celebrimbor. Charlie vickers' Sauron gives me the creeps, he's so good!!!!!
This scene is so good, so well made. I wish people would give the show a chance because it does have great characters and moments like this.
I experienced like 1 great moment for 2 minutes each episode. Thats laughable
I mean the only good thing about the show is the actor of Sauron/Annatar carrying the whole thing and the Balrog scene.
Elrond and Durin have one of the best friendships ever put to screen. Elendil is quickly becoming my favorite character on the show. Galadriel’s turn during the last two episodes of season 1 is beautifully written. The list goes on, but I appreciate that the best moments on this show are not in the battles, but in the intimate character moments.
Man, if only the rest of the show was this good...
It feels like they made this entire show for a few badass moments with Sauron and the rest is just a filler 😂
@@aloevera3932this was shite too 😅😅😅
Season 2 is epic except for the hobbits...
Is just the beginning my friend.. this is where it gets darker and darker.
@Rev4N1 Probably the most epic series since season 13 of Supernatural, or the last season of the golden girls.
"From where you're kneeling it must seem like an 18-carat run of bad luck.
Truth is... the game was rigged from the start."
☠️
"Captivating 😊"
If this is the plot line they were going for, they should have devoted the show to it. Take the whole 500 years that Sauron spent there in the Silmarillion. Let the audience know who he is and watch as he ingratiates himself with the Elves. Toss in someone that slowly begins to figure it out, but is too late to stop the destruction at the end. They could almost turn it into a thriller, or a detective story, rather than trying to cram everything together like they did.
A story like this over 500 years would never work. It doesn’t even make sense logistically. What could possibly take so long?
Don’t understand the hate for this show. I think it’s fantastic. Charles Edwards is absolutely phenomenal an actor and beside Charlie Vickers - they’re both very talented.
this season has redeemed the show
I had so many doubts after the first season, but this one scene convinced me that there just might be something good happening here... the acting, the dialog, the tension. Hmmmm, might be looking forward to Season 3.
i agree with your points both good actors i just wish the guy playing celebrimbor actually looked like an elf..
@@jeffhall1442 Same I'm a huge fan of the Tolkien books and these two actors absolutely knocked it out the park. The music too in this scene is haunting when the spell is broken.
Well i agree people overhate it to a degree thats unfair. However, the elves didnt look like elves in the slighest and the Dark wizard thign was kinda cheesy. I hope it isnt sarumann because he isnt evil at this point in time even if he was still in Valinor. But i liked it overall. But the isildur and theo thing was kinda weak and the numenor plot was the weakest mostly because it didnt feel as important imo. Also the costume for numenorians were bad for a production like this. The show in general is good and i hope for a season 3 :D
This screen was absolutely fantastic.
Is this the guy who Sauron kills and impales on pike and parades him around like a trophy?
Celebrimbanner as they say.
not in this multiverse
yes!
@@Kul-tegin you will not see this in this shit show
Yes.
For all of the show's flaws, this plotline is amazing. I think they are doing a great job of capturing what an abusive relationship actually looks like in real life, despite the fantasy backdrop of the story. When a lot of folks think of domestic violence usually they think of physical violence. But what the show is doing a great job of showing is that it's the psychological and emotional abuse that is far more insidious and damaging. In our own world this is routinely downplayed - in the court systems especially. Victims are told to just "get over it" or pretend like it didn't happen and carry on trying co-exist with this person, especially if they have a child together.
For most of their time together, Sauron rarely raises his voice or is physically violent...and yet he is responsible for all of the chaos and destruction that surrounds Celebrimbor. The elves helping with the creation of the rings are on edge, trying to meet Sauron's expectations which will never be met regardless of the quality of the work. Celebrimbor begins to question his reality and whether he is losing his mind. Like this particular scene, the show takes this a step further by having Sauron use actual magic to create reality distorting illusions...But this is a perfect metaphor for how real life abusers operate. In a sense, they also create "illusions" around their victims to keep them isolated, under a false sense of security, while questioning their own sanity.
To top it all off, when Celebrimbor tries to "leave" the relationship and stop working on the rings, he sounds crazy to the other elves when he talks about what has been done to him. Sauron calmly and rationally swoops in right on queue, and makes it seem like Celebrimbor is the problem and going crazy. Celebrimbor is disheveled, frantic, and terrified, while Sauron is calm, clean and collected. We all know who the other elves believed... Similarly, who do you think court systems routinely believe in our world?
More often than not, THIS is what domestic violence, or any kind of abusive relationship dynamic looks like. It's not about physically imposing your will on someone. It's about creating such a chaotic mess, and making everyone so confused, that people cannot trust what is in front of their eyes, hiding in plain sight.
Charlie Vickers' facial expressions are great
Tolkien was a devout Christian and it was clear that Sauron was the representation of Lucifer in his Lord of the Rings books. This scene clearly shows that. I actually enjoyed this series despite its flaws, it really gives you a great insight to the beginning of the war of the rings.
Only you could accomplish such art, Celebrimbor
I don't like this show but OMG Celebrimbor's look of "WTF?" at the end got me.
Charlie killed it as annatar , I'm guessing we will see his dark lord form real soon he's got the 9 he needs to craft the one ring to rule them all and he's reunited with the crown of morgoth we need to see more of saurons dark lord form on the big screen im guessing this series will end around the same time as lotr fellowship of the ring opening begins
In season 3 he will attempt to deceive the people of Numenor. I can't wait to see this plot from the book on screen.
This has been such a massive improvement from season one. Anyone hating on the show now is just hating to hate without any actual reason. The standout is obviously Annatar/Sauron Celebrimbor as well. But this really feels like lotr
Feels like lotr yet doesn't follow the same story.
@@aerystargaryenii2565 you get what I mean smartass it feels like it belongs in the lord of the rings universe and world vs season one that felt very much out of place.
The battle in the latest episode was the most non sensical sequence of events ive ever seen in a tv show or movie. It was very badly put together. The show has some good moments, mostly when its between 2 characters, but overall I would still put it at below mediocre.
kid just because you like it that alone dont make it good you dvmb fucc lol i like the wolverine x men origenes wolverine but i know it is trash you should see it like it is too
Do you really think that the elfs are in the same category of toughs of men?
They are much more above, but they are portrait as young naive people . This is bad writing
jfc that's a terrible thing to walk out to
Jesus said:
“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.“
Bible, John 10:10
The destruction of Eregion is more emotional than that of Kingslanding.
Oh for sure. But to be fair it’s hard to be worse than that.
Man this was a great scene. Celebrimbor really felt like the main character of the whole season, and this was the climactic moment of the whole plotline. And so amazingly well-acted.
Season 2 is better than Season 1, no doubt about it.
Anyone who says the acting is bad in this series have not watched this scene.
Annatar/Sauron: "I WANT THE NINE!"
(Celebrimbor yeets axe at him)
"Grandpa feanör help me!"
This was hit or miss me but the actors did a great job showing how bad gaslighting can get.
Even sauron is lying. To himself