Losing 27% Horsepower And Going 4.8 Seconds FASTER! (How?!)
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- Опубліковано 16 тра 2024
- Having 140hp less might not mean a lot if you're running a 2500hp drag car, but when you go from 590hp to 450hp, that is quite a difference (27% in fact!).
2018 results: 5th place with 1:40.8430
2019 result: 1st place with 1:38.6140
2022 result: 1st place with 1:33.7760, a new class record
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Benjamin Perry of Benchmark Solutions runs us through the Team ERS @evolutionracingsparesoffic1187 EVO 6 which took out first place honours in the Clubsprint Class at the last @WorldTimeAttackChallenge
The 4g63 is an EVO 6 bottom end with an EVO 9 head giving it MIVEC (variable cam control) which is controlled by a @MoTeCglobal M1 along with the ACD (Active Center Differential) system via a NA Autosport and Engineering firmware package.
A @BoschAustralia1 Bosch Motorsports brake package has been fitted, the same used in GT3 class cars, and no doubt that ABS has helped with the seconds shaved off the lap time along with getting the suspension, chassis and driver up to speed before any fine tuning with the help of DNA Autosport.
The car now runs a @GarrettTurbos G30 770 in place of the old Garrett GTX3576R GEN II it ran previously as well as a new, simpler ARTEC Performance cast manifold which is more than good enough for the job at hand and allows less points of failure and makes the car much quicker and easier to work on. With a previous turbo gasket failure giving the team a headache at a previous event, the clamp setup is naturally much preferred with that experience under the belt too.
The aftermarket cam previously fitted as been replaced with one from GSC Power Division and while the engine does make around 100kw or 140hp less, it retains a similar midrange and lower end but with a flatter torque curve giving owner and driver Jamal 'Jimmy Evo' Assaad the ability to pedal the car smoother and faster.
The team ended up setting a new class record and was almost 5 seconds faster than their 2019 winning time proving all the logical steps taken to be worth the effort.
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Clubsprint Time Attack
0:10 - Ben Perry - Benchmark Solutions
0:25 - 2-3 Seconds A Lap FASTER Out The Gate
0:40 - 140hp Less - Why?
1:25 - How Does That Help
2:13 - Garret G30 Series
2:34 - Manifold Changes
3:19 - Less Failure Points
3:56 - Camshaft Changes & Tuning
5:30 - Bosch Motorsport Braking Package
6:30 - ABS Was Worth It
6:52 - MoTeC M1 Controlled Center Diff
8:04 - Torque Control Tuning Feedback
8:53 - Handling Balance - Mechanical Vs Digital Tuning
10:40 - Less Can Be More Eh
11:01 - Thumbs Up, Sub, Free Lesson, Woo!
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My dad always told me, you can have all the power in the world, but without the chassis and traction it needs depending on the build, track/drag, you'll be slower that a 300hp car.(This was back in the 2000's when 300hp was quite a bit).
The characteristics of the power band are critical too. You want more power under the curve rather than focusing on the peak power numbers.
Where and how the power come on make the difference between a confidence inspiring car vs. a terrifying car.
We had two customers with vintage Datsun Zs. One of them was making about 400 hp, the other was making 600hp. The 600 hp Z was a nightmare to drive, it would spin the wheels when you wouldn't want it to and you were primarily focusing on regaining control more than driving.
The 400hp Z was a delight to drive. The power came on when you wanted/expected it to and was plenty of power to put a smile on your face.
Of all our customer's cars, the most enjoyable ones were the ones with linear power through the power band, not a violent peak at high rpm.
@@davidparker9676 Same, my dad had a 64 Mustang with about 350hp that was a death trap, he just didint invest in suspension, I had a friend with an E46 M3 that would murder him on a drag, its was mostly 60 rolls that he was bsle to keep up, but E46's have top end like mofo, even with only 333hp, about 290 wheel, my dad's was making 320sh to the wheels.
@@davidparker9676 à000
@@davidparker9676 unfortunately the average car person just wants to post the highest peak numbers, but they are missing out.
Is your dad Dom Toretto?
Props to the interviewer who clearly done his homework!
Props to the interviewee Ben for help with that too! Andre knows a lot for sure and much of that is learnt from study and help from others in the industry like Ben over the years. No man is a lonely island as they say! - Taz.
Andre isn't your usual interviewer, the man breathes racing builds
The emphasis and importance of correct chassis tuning is incredibly visible in Ryan tuerck’s a90 supra with the Judd v10. All the power in the world, all the diff and chassis potential but in its current tuning state it’s struggling to even put 300HP to the track and is even unstable in straight line braking
Wonder if the team has seen the corner weighting course 😅 haha I'm sure they're onto that side of things and have a few more fundamental issues to work through, hell even F1 teams struggle to nail it all right out of the box, part of the challenge - Taz.
To be fair, it has only ‘just’ been converted from a drift car to a TA type vehicle and it’s not his core driving discipline.
Also, he had his aero package fail and the wing and splitter had to be removed, that will change just about all of the suspension tuning like he had mentioned...
That will arguably have a lot to do with the tire itself. Your suspension won't really affect how much power you can put down when driving relatively straight.
Best automotive performance channel on youtube, or on TV.
Cheers for the support Pab, appreciate it dude! - Taz.
I always think of the Best Motoring Video that showed the Mines R34, that car was built for response over anything else & it was fast as hell but didn't have the usual big horsepower figure.
Even running the standard airbox.
This is a prime example of power is not everything, when everything else needs to be treated with equal importance. Benchmarks solutions, tuning strategy and troubleshooting was so insightful!
This was an epic discussion and overview.
Cheers dude, we really enjoyed this chat with Ben too and it's great to see the team, car and driver jump up the time sheets year after year too - Taz.
I'm not a religious person but the 'Allah' decal at the front bumper and tauhid spell at the rear windshield really do participate in lap time shaving.
Blessing of God really did wonders, man
That's what I came here for 😅
Let’s not forget switching to the A052 and adding ABS. That’s 3-4 seconds there alone.
They talked about that
No matter how much power you make, it's absolutely useless if you can't put it down to the ground. 😎👍
@@ChefofWar33 Can you race the F-22 raptor around this racetrack in WTAC? Nope. 🤡
@@ChefofWar33 Nah I won't do that. When 14 people already understood but your dumbass doesn't, it's best to illustrate you as the 🤡 you are. Now run along to your planes flyboy, the racers are talking. 😎
Benny from Benchmark Solutions is a good egg and definitely knows his shit!
Oath
8:52 What a great question to ask. You're the best Andre
Solid answer too I thought even if Ben is on the fine tuning side of things, which you do still need to understand a thing or 10 about to get right 😎 - Taz.
2018 results: 5th place with 1.40.8430
2019 result: 1st place with 1.38.6140
2022 result: 1st place with 1.33.7760, a new class record
2023 result: Any guesses?
A great drive, team and setup will get you so far, but we all know it's actually seeing Andres t-shirt through the years that has really helped here right? Just logic. Get yours and start spreading the good fortune around, or not, that's cool too, we'll still make videos while we cry a little on the inside because you're missing out - shop.hpacademy.com/ - Taz.
That's awesome, looking at the direction they are taking and all the thought That's going on this project it would not surprise me if they go sub 1.30.. congratulations very nice and proper car!
I'd love achange to drive that car to see how beautifuly it handles 🤙💯🤌
I was utterly disappointed with this year's new Wrc regulations. They removed the active center diff and the Biger areo package and reduced suspension travel yet gave the car an electric motor that boosts the car upto 500hp from 380hp using different strategies that we are not informed about . Feels like and the car look to drive like they took a step backwards 🤦♂️🤷♂️
Sounds like Touge Battle, all about balance and usable power.
Absolutely! The peak hp numbers are worthless if you cant control the car.
Liked that video. Thanks
Id love to see you guys do a break down of a full drag application engine vs a time attack engine like this
happy these videos have returned!
Us too! We'll have a bit of a gap before we get to PRI later in the year but from there hopefully the world is back to being normal enough that we can pick up where we left off in 2019. If you have any topic requests let us know, and if you haven't been listening to the podcasts note, they are pretty awesome.
Have a listen and give us a rating on whatever platform you use so that others keen on these topics can find the podcast too :) - Taz.
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First thought before clip, power curve with more low and mid torque at earlier RPM, vs high HP at topend but narrow power band.
Second, transmission tuning and traction.
Third, suspension tuning and corner tuning.
Great vid, a lot of us probably don't have the car sorted but add more power anyway, I struggle to put down what I've got but am looking at a new turbo lol
Right on, we all know that battle, shiny new parts vs dialling in what we have in front of us first. Sometimes it just seems easier to throw money at a part and hope it's going to be worth it I think!
Glad you enjoyed this interview too - Taz.
I bet we see the g30-900 on it next year. Haha.
I wonder how the artec manifold goes up in the 600wkw range?
Also looks like they stepped down to a skunk2 intake manifold.
I love how these guys do solid testing of their setups, not just a
Sik Dose down a back road then back to the workshop for a beer and a round of complimentary high 5's.
Yes Benny!
Cheers bro.
Now thats a fast car
THe old saying, with low power you are able to use everything vs high power and you need to be more controlled.
Power under the curve and linear power is way more important than peak power. I remember a small Suzuki GTI with a humongous turbo running quicker than anybody because the head flowed so much the torque curve was actually good when turbo lagging. Very curious to see at that time
Tyres
Weight Reduction
Aero
Driving Style
Gearing + LSD
Can all effect times heavily. its not just all about Horsepower.
Power delivery and chassis balance is everything on the track. To often too much horsepower makes the car more difficult to drive
Would have to see a dyno graph of both setups. I'm debating on staying with the stock frame turbo or going vband with the artec
Higher tq? Better gearing? Areo? Weight? All of the above?
I wonder how the artec manifolds are for roll/drag racing
How much negative camber at front wheels? By looking at it I assume that I was less than -2?
0:57 everything was massive, big power, BIG A-- big piping...
Is that standard radiator?
It’s all about overall setup and lowest possible weight. Power makes you faster in straight
Getting the power to the ground is another part of it. Traction is not great on light high-power cars. It is a balancing act.
I do this on forza yes i know ill probably get scolded for this comment cause thats a game but everythings true if you focus on weight grip and handling rathe rthan just power it can be faster being able to put the power down harder and faster
side-note//question;
Is that a big burn on andres arm just @ top of his forearm and bicep?????
From a bad break I believe. His left handed arm wrestling career was over before it started - Taz.
@@hpa101 Sorry to read that, but you know what they say "them's the breaks".
@@gordowg1wg145 he's still a bit 'cut up' about it all these years later although he found your joke 'humerus' 😅 - Taz.
Short answer: less weight for power to pull in the first and second gear
I havent even watched the video
Weight decrease and downforce increase will make you so much faster it's silly. Power isn't always the answer
Everyone needs to be better at driving before cars get more powerful
4:45 only evo owners can tell from here it's a right have drive evo...
GSC>HKS/Kelford/Tomei cams!
What is the engine displacement?
2.2L
So what does he use for gaskets and studs?
I think he was referring to no studs or gaskets between the manifold and turbo. Hence going to V band turbine inlet.
@@SouthlandFlyer spot on, cheers for helping out Dez here - Taz.
Fabricated manifolds have a lot of stress built into them. Studs for the turbo often stretch or strip due to the warping forces.
More and more successful race teams are returning to cast manifolds for increased reliability and lower energy losses.
I wonder what A/R it is, 0.83 or 1.01?
It depends on the fuel to be fair, that is the beauty of the scale in making it so much easier for tuners to know where things are at with 1 as a baseline regardless - Taz.
0.83 AR
Why such a big turbo for that power? 770hp rated turbo seems way overkill and sacrificing even quicker spool. The rest of the Garrett G series including G30-660 and G25-660 can comfortably make this power so what’s the point?
No they can't.
We tested all turbos in the G-Series range.
The G25-660 made ~340kw on our Mainline dyno.
This equals roughly ~570 hp at the flywheel, the turbo was maxed for the application in both shaft speed and EMAP.
The smaller G-Series turbos aren't always able to support the required power we need at the higher pressure ratios required.
@@Benchmark413 Cheers for the explanation :)
All depends on engine efficiency.
@@roskataqv Yeah it’s interesting because motive dvd/powertune made like 370awkw with a G25 on the GR Yaris and we see Evo X making same power as this Evo with small turbos but like you said they are newer and more efficient engines.
@@Joe-qc2fw they made their power at the front hubs.
Ours was at the wheels on a chassis dyno. Typically a ~20% difference in my experience.
Stock radiator??
Yes.
Torque, handling, grip and brakes. Those are the keys. Ohh and weight and its distribution. Aero. List is long.
Many assume that power is the best and most important factor to zero in on. That doesn't mean there is only one other thing to focus on instead, just that lumping more and more power at a car doesn't actually mean it will go faster than something with less power which has also had the low hanging fruit in other setup areas dealt with as well - Taz
Wow i would like to see this happen in a log
classic more is less and less is more
Balance is a beautiful thing.
2 seconds is all related to the tyres. A052 is almost A050 in terms of performance, with less endurance.
Not everyone was up 2 seconds, and they ended up being 4.8 seconds up on their previous best by the end of the event. There are certainly a few variables between years but at the end of the weekend of racing the team were top of the bunch of all those racing on the same tyre in the same conditions to the same rules. Winners are grinners 😎 - Taz.
Yes the class record set in 2017 on AD08R's was 1:36.83
@gtpumps so with 2 seconds off that would be 1.34.83, which still isn't a gold medal. All speculation though.
Really it sounds like you'll just have to put a faster time up in 2023 using the same compound as everyone else on the day for that year and see where you place .Records are there to be broken, as this one has been and will be again 😉 - Taz.
@@hpa101 fair comment but 1:34.83 would have finished in second place :)
@@gtpumps throw Jordan Cox (who is in essence a pro driver) in Jimmy's Evo 6RS and just imagine what time it would do around SMP.
See boys and girls power isn’t everything
You lowered your lap time , with more spool , not less power
Yes, at the 'cost' of peak power output - Taz.