Wolves, Chimpanzees, and Deer: Let's Dissect the Alpha Male Myth
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- Опубліковано 1 тра 2024
- Evangelical conservatives too often portray masculinity as if men are supposed to be the “Alpha male”-aloof, emotionless, vying for control, and bullying. Today we look at how, even in nature, this concept of the Alpha Male has been overblown. And we present a better picture.
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LINKS MENTIONED:
Let Men Be Men podcasts, and Let Men Be Dads
baremarriage.com/2024/01/the-...
baremarriage.com/2024/01/let-...
Josh Howerton about Evangelical Honeymoons
baremarriage.com/2024/03/podc...
The Desiring God article where Greg Morse bemoans all the safe men www.desiringgod.org/articles/...
The TED Talk from Frans de Waal about Alpha Males • The ‘alpha male’ myth,...
Rick Pidcock analyses the Stronger Men’s Conference with Mark Driscoll’s “Jezebel” outburst
baptistnews.com/article/what-...
This week’s article on turning the other cheek baremarriage.com/2024/04/does...
ALL ABOUT NEW RIVER FELLOWSHIP CHURCH
Pastor Joey Willis, Lead Pastor at New River Fellowship in Hudson Oaks, Texas.
New River Fellowship www.newriver.tv/
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Didn't Jesus say something about not being the guy that bosses people around? That the one who wants to lead should be a servant.
Years ago, I was watching a documentary about WW II veterans. I remember one man saying how wonderful his commanding officer was, who was "nurturing like a woman", offering comfort and support, and was also the bravest man there, who inspired courage and resolution in his men so they could continue fighting. That has always stuck in my mind of an example of masculinity. As I listened to Joey in the last few minutes, I started to cry- even though I left a toxic church years ago, it was still healing some residual hurt. Thank you.
35:08 Foster's argument doesn't even hold up to the most basic level of scrutiny: Adam wasn’t given dominion, Adam _and Eve_ were given dominion together (Genesis 1:28), indicating that "dominion" was not intended to define men against women, but was a shared human prerogative.
The guy who wrote that Desiring God piece seriously needs to reread I Timothy 3:2-7 (NIV):
"Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap."
(And yes, I'm fully aware that in the original Greek, the passage is actually gender-neutral. Regardless, doesn’t the point remain that men must earn leadership, and they do so by living a life defined by virtue rather than by the flesh?)
Oddly enough, the Caesar trilogy of Planet of the Apes (Rise, Dawn, and War) really dives into these questions. What is a true leader? Where is the line between “primal” and “sentient”? When are gender roles necessary and when are they not (this one is more alluded to than explored directly). Very good films, I highly recommend them.
The founding elder of my childhood church was a great leader and teacher and the first to grab a broom to clean the church and giving food to needing families. Littles kids were grabbing his glasses and beard in many occasions when we had church luncheons, when families would bring their babies to his lap and the church would pray over the family. He is retired 90 year old grampa now.
Thank YOU for calling out Jordan Peterson and his awful rhetoric esp with a “sheathed sword” as meekness-that’s NOT meek. You are completely right…to be meek is to be meek. It’s a bit shy, it’s tentative, it’s on the quiet side, it’s gentle, it’s careful. I’m so tired of the JP people who grabbed onto him as their next ‘hero’ just because he spoke out definitively about trans. Yes, he had good points on the trans situation esp at his university work. He and his daughter-on podcasts-do a lot of work to find health both physical and mental, but that doesn’t mean they are well equipped to deal with simple truths of the Bible…they have a physiological approach not biblical approach and I’m so tired of those who defend JP’s interpretation of scripture.
He's not even a Christian, and doesn't believe that God exists. He just think the idea of God needs to
Hi Sheila, shout out from the void lol! ❤ You are doing such great work. It's on my list to read your books! 📚
Do you have any conferences or special events coming up? ❤❤
Jezebel spirit is used everywhere (esp online exorcisms where anything sexual is a 'Jezebel spirit')
As you say it links certain types of sin to 'the woman's fault' . Ahab was the king at the time, political decision buck stops with him. And was Jezebel particularly sexually sinful? My memory is that she was blamed in the book of Kings for getting Ahab into the Baal cult, not sexual offences. Oh and when at the end she dared to put on make up before she was to be killed.
I’m Gamma! Third comment, third letter of the Greek alphabet.
We have been walking through some serious mental health attacks with my husband. And so far the ladies at church have offered no support in terms of building me up and giving me strength as I see my most important relationship get torn apart by a condition the medical field doesn’t even fully understand. I’ve been mailed many books now to read because the problem is clearly me, the wife. (Eye roll). There is no lonelier place than a Christian woman with marriage problems. I have been mailed the power of a praying wife and another book called fierce women. Because clearly my mental toughness is causing my husband to have uncontrollable emotional outbursts. Anyhow, has anybody read fierce women and can tell me if it’s toxic? Thank you. Btw, my husband has been telling me to toss these books, he’s taking full responsibility. I’m working on myself as I have an ounce of self awareness and I know everyone can work on patience and kindness and I am. We are holding together as the church is trying to make our problem about each other. What a joke. Sorry for the rant, I just need to get this off my chest even if nobody reads this.
Why wolves? Bonobos are extremely promiscuous, we aren't encouraged to be like that species. It's very arbitrary. The alpha wolf male image has more to do with Western heroes like in the movie "Shane" or anything with John Wayne. Weird.
Oh, dang, should have listened longer.
Hey, i'll be honest i didn't even watch this video, it was just the lastest one posted that i could get this question out. Have you done any studies on women and hormonal imbalances? I workout regularly and follow many different fitness coaches and bodybuilders and i feel there is a lot to be said about having your numbers checked out.
Don’t forget a David spirit!
Aside: Jordyn Peterson is a prof of psychology; a former atheist now inching closer and closer to Christianity. What he said a decade ago and what he’s been saying in recent years don’t always align. He’s no longer a committed atheist and his stance on masculinity has been softening the more he explores Biblical Christianity. But it’s been a slow evolution (and he’s been quieter since his wife got sick and battling mental illness himself)… and the interwebs still like to resurrect his old rhetoric as current. Sadly, when he’s broken down on screen and admitted to his struggles, he’s been mocked for it. But he’s been criticizing the new wave Manosphere crowd (like Tate and his ilk) in recent months.
In summary… he’s not a Christian, so he should neither be judged nor emulated as one. That said, he has progressed from atheist to agnostic/seeker over the last decade and is showing signs of being relentlessly pursued by the “Hound of Heaven”. His rhetoric has been evolving for the better over the last decade, but he hasn’t “arrived” yet. However, as everything on the Internet is permanent, those who like his old rhetoric are still constantly circulating it.
Stop espousing things to Dr. Jordan Peterson out of context. He does not support “toxic masculinity”. I’d encourage you to actually listen to what he says. Men actually have to be capable of physically protecting their family because there are evil men out there that will use their anatomical strength differential against women and children and we saw this on 10/7/23,so good men while physically capable of protecting their family, that strength is too be controlled.
But that's not what it says in the Beatitudes. It isn't. He claimed it was--but it wasn't.
why do men have to be 'capable of physically protecting their family' ?
1. There are other approaches to protection - intellectual; co-operative; creative - not just physicality.
2. Why is it the male's role to be the protector? There is a wide range of ways groups are protected - by the group, not just by individual prowess; strength in the female etc
25 min in - claim Peterson said that the 'meek will inherit the earth' must not mean as it reads, and meek = being strong but not having to draw the sword. The video does not say that Peterson is pro toxic masculinity; just that he views that beatitude in this way, then says others also say this and these others go into the toxic masculinity, the 'He' at 29 min is related to John Piper, and before that they discuss how 'various christians' use the same argument as Peterson and extend that into toxic masculinity.
So not putting toxic masculinity into Peterson's mouth.
But the idea of the controlled monster is his. And that concerns me plenty all by itself.
You are correct there are better ways but those ways are created by law, order and virtue. Those pillars were and are established by violence or the threat of violence. Criminals and war combatants are arrested and fought almost exclusively by men with weapons. These protections are in place so we can get to the meek and mild solutions that are optimal but not always possible. A good man does not want to use violence but may be called to it out of necessity. I understand we live presently in an orderly society in the west but that is fairly new and not necessarily permanent.
@@Bertanica1979There is no situation in which behaving in the ways of lawless is the only option.
@@FireflowerDancerI never said it was the only option but when other people choose it, sometimes the only response is to stand up to it.