if you take recommendations may I suggest Against The Dark Master, it's a OSR retroclone of the middle-earth roleplaying game, that carries on the asymmetric design of the original but has most of the options from it as standard so you can do good, evil or neutral campaigns with lots of options for each, recently had a new sourcebook that adds a new stack of options.
I'm so happy you have enjoyed the game so far and that my recommendation wasn't a dud! I'm even happier you will do a Rules Breakdown video as well! I know your time is limited on these things, so I wanted to post some aspects of the game to look for on your deeper dive. As a big fan of the game, I hope these insights and explanations will help for the next video. Also apologies that it's a little long haha. * Defenses use the mean of 3 stats to prevent god stats and dump stats. * One Unique Thing should get more attention for the roleplaying and worldbuilding opportunity it provides both players and GMs. * Class talents are the best part of classes. In 5e for example, instead of waiting until level 3 to choose your path or a monk needing level 5 for stunning strike, in 13th Age you get to select which class talents you want at first level among all possible talents. This also creates diversity within classes as one thief could focus on being a swashbuckler-type and take the talents Swashbuckle, Cunning, and Tumble, while another rogue could be more of an assassin and take Improved Sneak Attack, Murderous, and Shadow Walk. * Feats: There are two types of feats, generic feats and class feats. While the generic feats are more like other D&D games, the class feats are much different as they are tied to class features, powers, and spells. This creates much more variety and player choice since many talents/powers/spells have their own feat progression that improves them, allowing you to focus on your preferred playstyle. * 13th Age has only 10 levels and lacks “dead levels,” meaning you always get something new and awesome every level and really feels like you have improved. * Misses: all basic attacks and many powers and spells deal miss damage (usually equal to your level) or have some other effect. This takes the sting out of missing and also gives you something to keep track of and makes combat much more interactive. * Escalation Die. This is a big one and has many small details that might not be apparent on a first read-through. The escalation die is an elegant solution to two problems the designers noticed: either players blew all of their strongest spells and abilities in the first few rounds of combat and made what was supposed to be a climactic battle very unexciting, or fights became a slog and lasted way too long. The designers intentionally gave all monsters much higher defenses than normal so many attacks miss more often in early rounds. This is to make blowing all of the most powerful spells and abilities too early a big gamble. This high enemy defense is off-set by the escalation die so using your powerful stuff at later rounds is a much safer bet. This also means the damage ramps up quickly after round 3 or 4 as more attacks land and more players will use their big abilities. This prevents the long drawn out slog some battles end up becoming, too. I love how genius this solution is and is honestly one of my favorite parts of the system. * Theater of the mind positioning. 13th Age is intended for non-grid combat as it uses relative positioning, and all abilities target specific numbers of enemies or within a certain range (1d4 nearby creatures, all staggered enemies, etc.) instead of shapes like lines, cones, or circle areas. As someone who doesn’t like grid combat, this is also a huge win for me. * The save mechanic. Instead of having different saving throws based on different stats, you just roll an unmodified d20 and are looking for different results based on the save difficulty: 6+ for easy, 11+ for normal, or 16+ for hard. Very elegant and is used not just in saving throws and death saves but also serves as a recharge mechanic for spells and abilities. * Monsters. This is often overlooked but I think it makes running combat in 13th Age so much fun. The stat blocks are very condensed and make running encounters with different types of monsters much easier than something like 5e where monster info can take up a full column or even page. Monster roles give quick guidance on what the monsters are good at and allow a GM to plan interesting encounters by mixing types. Many monsters have abilities that trigger off the attack roll, so it keeps combats varied while not having to put too much mental strain on the GM trying to decide which ability or spells to use. Lastly, some monsters have “nastier specials” which are optional abilities if you want to throw players off guard if they’ve become bored of a type of monster they’ve encountered often, or if you want to make the monsters distinct in some way, like a leader or a “dire” version. Anyway, that's all I've got. Sorry if it's too long but I hope it helps you enjoy the game even more. Looking forward to the next video!
I've tried to cover a lot of that for the Rules Breakdown (and did mention some of it in the Retro video), but as you know the Rules Breakdowns only cover the basics, so much is outside the scope. I mention in the Rules Breakdown that I've been talking with one of the D&D DM's in my group who is becoming disillusioned with the limitations of 5e, and he's considering 13th Age as it covers a lot of what he wants in a game, so I may be playing it on a regular basis soon. :D
The history of 13th age is kinda interesting, it was designed by Rob Heinsoo and Jonathan Tweet the lead designers of 4e and 3rd respectively. It is a reaction to the complaints of 4e, and the a lesser extent 3rd, without throwing out what made the edition itself but throwing out alot of what separates dnd from a d20 game. The only alternative setting with officially published material is Glorantha and IMO that setting book has the most interesting classes of and d20 rules book.
4th Edition really did seem to leave so many different offshoots of D&D as a reaction to the direction they took. Have to admit I didn't play much of it at all, but that was mainly down to my 3e campaign not ending until 5e was almost available.
Something I don't think I mentioned in this video is that very few misses actually miss. Unless it's a critical fail, depending on the manuever, you tend to do very basic damage (your level in damage, instead of rolling your level in damage dice). So there's rarely a wasted action.
Wait did I just see BESM in your intro?! Subbed hard and can't wait to go through your whole collection. Been into TTRG since the late 80s and it is so good to see the quality but less known titles of yesteryear given their proper and loving examination. Also: I'd like to suggest for review the TTRPG 'TORG'. It's an amazingly unique setting that ties in many different story genres in a cohesive world where one day you can be katana fighting with samurai robots in a cyberpunk Japan and the next day riding T-Rexes through a primitive prehistoric land, and end the weekend saving a community of survivors from a zombie invasion. All tied in to a 'Our world in the next ten minutes' setting that really brings the poignancy of the invasion of other realities. Thanks for making this excellent content and sharing it with us!
@@Nezzeraj Not surprising, it was a supremely niche game at the end of the silver age before Anime was popular. Just the fact he has a copy gives me the impression that I should have found this channel years ago.
I'll add Torg to the list for the next poll, cool suggestion, and one of the guys in my group has a full collection so I might borrow them to cover the physical books. On the subject of BESM, I covered the 2nd edition early on when I started the channel, and then made the mistake of covering all my sourcebooks for it in one video, except for Cold Hands, Dark Hearts which I missed somehow. And sadly that book has become a kind of joke entry in the polls, as it always comes last (and may actually be the only book in a poll to receive zero votes in one particular poll). I might go back and give the sourcebooks more of a chance as they deserved better than to be all lumped into one video.
I have limited experience with this game but wasn't a fan after trying it. Played a Wizard because I thought that's the sort of class to really grow and explore but it doesn't. Wizards start with access to all the spells their level can cast and there are no more spells given, so basically they work broadly the same as clerics do in other d20 games. Add to the fact that I really did not get on with the backgrounds system as opposed to set skills, as like you said, it's an exercise in creating the most broadly applicable background to maximise utility which no one told me upfront, I don't think I'll go back to it. People talk up the One Unique Thing part or how good the icon system is and those do have potential, but they could easily be added to Pathfinder, World of Darkness, Fate, anything really, nothing ties either to 13th Age's system so still not a selling point for me.
This seems like an expectation problem. The "playstyle" and "spell" entries for the wizard class specifically mention that its different from what you expected. While wizards are not prepared casters they are still very different from clerics with their cyclical magic class feature. For the backgrounds, I find this problem only exists with people used to min-maxing. I am on my second 13A campaign and none of my players have this problem. Some backgrounds my current players have are "wrestler", "goat wrangler", and "miner." No one has thought about backgrounds other than as fun and flavorful background elements that make their characters more interesting.
@@Nezzeraj okay, I have updated what I said to avoid confusion over whether I meant Wizards work mostly like Clerics or exactly like Clerics. I hope this clarifies, I was not saying the two classes in this game are identical in how they cast spells. On backgrounds: I'm not a min-maxer and I don't play with min-maxers or run for them, and I have a problem with the backgrounds. I picked backgrounds for the game I was in, and couldn't do anything with them, was told to broaden them out to apply to more things, still couldn't do anything with them. I asked how my PC gets better at things they do in game, was told they don't. All PCs get a bonus to every roll when they level up (which I also dislike but that's another topic), but you only ever get a set number of background points, no more, unless you want to spend a Feat to get a few more. Sounded and felt very restrictive to play. This might have been the way that group ran it but separately, three of them and three other friends have played a years long campaign of 13th age, so I have to assume they didn't run it badly for me, it's just that I don't like the way the game does things and it's not for me.
While I've got problems with the Backgrounds/Skills system, I do like a lot of the other elements, so I'd be willing to live with them. But personally I'd look at 13th age as a toolbox to add to D&D, which is something the authors suggest you do if you can't convince you're group to avoid D&D.
@@mattshaw8542 It's fair if a game just doesn't work for you, that happens to me too. The reason Backgrounds don't improve or you get more points is because they are backgrounds; they are what you did before becoming an adventurer. It would be like being a lawyer now but complaining you aren't advancing your fast food fry cook skills. I don't think the system is any more restrictive than a proper skill system since many of those systems only give a few points per level, and with so many skills you end up putting just 1 point in a few select skills anyway, which is exactly the same as adding your level as a bonus just explained differently.
@@RPGGamer That's a fair point. Personally I wouldn't like to play with a group that was against playing other games. While I don't hate 5e or PF, I don't play them either because there are so many better games that exist these days it would be like going to an ice cream shop with 30 flavors and only buying vanilla.
Eh, I don't think I like maneuvers much. It doesn't seem _natural_ to me to pick and choose what to do after you've rolled the die. It is interesting in that it limits the amount of stuff that you can choose from your list -- and there aren't that many to choose from, so it shouldn't hold the game for too long even if your fighter is at a pretty high level --, but yeah, I think I prefer a style of play where you choose what to do first, then act, then the next player makes a choice, then acts. I _like_ the idea of maneuvers as special abilities for the fighter. That's cool. I think that there should be a baseline list of maneuvers that any character could pick from, and a bigger one for the fighter players. As for game suggestions, boy, do I have a list for you. :D First off, I think I'd like to see you cover Castle Falkenstein. A game that not many people talk about but always seemed fascinating to me. Then there's The Burning Wheel, but this one may be too complicated. Hero is another one that seems really complicated... Degenesis. Any of the Ubiquity games (Hollow Earth Expedition, Desolation, All for One: Regime Diabolique...) Eclipse Phase Godlike Kult Legend of the Five Rings Seventh Sea (1st edition, I really dislike 2nd ed) for the roll & keep mechanic, and the swordfighting schools. The FASERIP Marvel Superheroes RPG, which is from TSR and uses an action table. The Marvel Universe Roleplaying Game from 2003, which is diceless, and was written by the guy who wrote Paranoia. (It would be interesting to take a look at all the Marvel RPGs and the changes in philosophy between those games) Shadow Of The Demon Lord or the newer Shadow Of The Weird Wizard The FFG Star Wars RPG The Dying Earth RPG by Pelgrane Press One of The End of the World games by FFG And I guess this is it... for now. :D
I think the Manuevers are a great idea, but I can see it slowing play, which I'm not keen on. As for your list, Castle Falkenstein is one of those games which I picked up many times, but never actually bought. Into the next poll it goes (along with a bunch of suggestions from other watchers), and I'll keep your list and put them in polls for the future :D
I also recommended Burning Wheel once and I hope it makes it into the poll sometime! It can be a very complicated game but it works so well together. Also a huge fan of Kult but even flipping through the rulebook might not be family friendly lol.
As for fighters in 13th Age, the flexible attacks have been removed in 2e. Now, they choose before they attack from a pool of maneuvers. There is also a talent called Combat Rhythm where fighters switch between offensive and defensive stances, and they get advantage on any attacks using maneuvers that match the current stance the fighter is in (using a defensive maneuver while in defensive stance, for example).
@@Nezzeraj I've got a copy of Burning Wheel sitting here, but I recieved so many suggestions this time I'm going to leave it, as it looks a pretty weighty tome and I'll need time to peruse it. :)
While I've some problems with some of the rules (I don't like the Backgrounds/Skills system at all), I do like a lot of what they've introduced as it gives the players options.
if you take recommendations may I suggest Against The Dark Master, it's a OSR retroclone of the middle-earth roleplaying game, that carries on the asymmetric design of the original but has most of the options from it as standard so you can do good, evil or neutral campaigns with lots of options for each, recently had a new sourcebook that adds a new stack of options.
I'll put it in the next Retro RPG poll (which probably will be all suggestions as I've had so many :D )
I'm so happy you have enjoyed the game so far and that my recommendation wasn't a dud! I'm even happier you will do a Rules Breakdown video as well! I know your time is limited on these things, so I wanted to post some aspects of the game to look for on your deeper dive. As a big fan of the game, I hope these insights and explanations will help for the next video. Also apologies that it's a little long haha.
* Defenses use the mean of 3 stats to prevent god stats and dump stats.
* One Unique Thing should get more attention for the roleplaying and worldbuilding opportunity it provides both players and GMs.
* Class talents are the best part of classes. In 5e for example, instead of waiting until level 3 to choose your path or a monk needing level 5 for stunning strike, in 13th Age you get to select which class talents you want at first level among all possible talents. This also creates diversity within classes as one thief could focus on being a swashbuckler-type and take the talents Swashbuckle, Cunning, and Tumble, while another rogue could be more of an assassin and take Improved Sneak Attack, Murderous, and Shadow Walk.
* Feats: There are two types of feats, generic feats and class feats. While the generic feats are more like other D&D games, the class feats are much different as they are tied to class features, powers, and spells. This creates much more variety and player choice since many talents/powers/spells have their own feat progression that improves them, allowing you to focus on your preferred playstyle.
* 13th Age has only 10 levels and lacks “dead levels,” meaning you always get something new and awesome every level and really feels like you have improved.
* Misses: all basic attacks and many powers and spells deal miss damage (usually equal to your level) or have some other effect. This takes the sting out of missing and also gives you something to keep track of and makes combat much more interactive.
* Escalation Die. This is a big one and has many small details that might not be apparent on a first read-through. The escalation die is an elegant solution to two problems the designers noticed: either players blew all of their strongest spells and abilities in the first few rounds of combat and made what was supposed to be a climactic battle very unexciting, or fights became a slog and lasted way too long. The designers intentionally gave all monsters much higher defenses than normal so many attacks miss more often in early rounds. This is to make blowing all of the most powerful spells and abilities too early a big gamble. This high enemy defense is off-set by the escalation die so using your powerful stuff at later rounds is a much safer bet. This also means the damage ramps up quickly after round 3 or 4 as more attacks land and more players will use their big abilities. This prevents the long drawn out slog some battles end up becoming, too. I love how genius this solution is and is honestly one of my favorite parts of the system.
* Theater of the mind positioning. 13th Age is intended for non-grid combat as it uses relative positioning, and all abilities target specific numbers of enemies or within a certain range (1d4 nearby creatures, all staggered enemies, etc.) instead of shapes like lines, cones, or circle areas. As someone who doesn’t like grid combat, this is also a huge win for me.
* The save mechanic. Instead of having different saving throws based on different stats, you just roll an unmodified d20 and are looking for different results based on the save difficulty: 6+ for easy, 11+ for normal, or 16+ for hard. Very elegant and is used not just in saving throws and death saves but also serves as a recharge mechanic for spells and abilities.
* Monsters. This is often overlooked but I think it makes running combat in 13th Age so much fun. The stat blocks are very condensed and make running encounters with different types of monsters much easier than something like 5e where monster info can take up a full column or even page. Monster roles give quick guidance on what the monsters are good at and allow a GM to plan interesting encounters by mixing types. Many monsters have abilities that trigger off the attack roll, so it keeps combats varied while not having to put too much mental strain on the GM trying to decide which ability or spells to use. Lastly, some monsters have “nastier specials” which are optional abilities if you want to throw players off guard if they’ve become bored of a type of monster they’ve encountered often, or if you want to make the monsters distinct in some way, like a leader or a “dire” version.
Anyway, that's all I've got. Sorry if it's too long but I hope it helps you enjoy the game even more. Looking forward to the next video!
I've tried to cover a lot of that for the Rules Breakdown (and did mention some of it in the Retro video), but as you know the Rules Breakdowns only cover the basics, so much is outside the scope.
I mention in the Rules Breakdown that I've been talking with one of the D&D DM's in my group who is becoming disillusioned with the limitations of 5e, and he's considering 13th Age as it covers a lot of what he wants in a game, so I may be playing it on a regular basis soon. :D
The history of 13th age is kinda interesting, it was designed by Rob Heinsoo and Jonathan Tweet the lead designers of 4e and 3rd respectively. It is a reaction to the complaints of 4e, and the a lesser extent 3rd, without throwing out what made the edition itself but throwing out alot of what separates dnd from a d20 game.
The only alternative setting with officially published material is Glorantha and IMO that setting book has the most interesting classes of and d20 rules book.
4th Edition really did seem to leave so many different offshoots of D&D as a reaction to the direction they took. Have to admit I didn't play much of it at all, but that was mainly down to my 3e campaign not ending until 5e was almost available.
I like the idea of manuvers for the fighter class; a good solution to keep misses from feeling like a wasted turn.
Something I don't think I mentioned in this video is that very few misses actually miss. Unless it's a critical fail, depending on the manuever, you tend to do very basic damage (your level in damage, instead of rolling your level in damage dice). So there's rarely a wasted action.
Your Own Private Idaho is the only published adventure for Price of Freedom, and it is a cool adventure for such a great game!
Just wish it would win, and I adore Price of Freedom and want an excuse to look through the adventure for the channel.
@@RPGGamer I always vote for it!
I always vote for this in poll so hopefully one day it will win.
Wait did I just see BESM in your intro?! Subbed hard and can't wait to go through your whole collection. Been into TTRG since the late 80s and it is so good to see the quality but less known titles of yesteryear given their proper and loving examination.
Also: I'd like to suggest for review the TTRPG 'TORG'. It's an amazingly unique setting that ties in many different story genres in a cohesive world where one day you can be katana fighting with samurai robots in a cyberpunk Japan and the next day riding T-Rexes through a primitive prehistoric land, and end the weekend saving a community of survivors from a zombie invasion. All tied in to a 'Our world in the next ten minutes' setting that really brings the poignancy of the invasion of other realities.
Thanks for making this excellent content and sharing it with us!
BESM has been in polls several times but never does very well. Maybe some day lol.
@@Nezzeraj Not surprising, it was a supremely niche game at the end of the silver age before Anime was popular. Just the fact he has a copy gives me the impression that I should have found this channel years ago.
I'll add Torg to the list for the next poll, cool suggestion, and one of the guys in my group has a full collection so I might borrow them to cover the physical books.
On the subject of BESM, I covered the 2nd edition early on when I started the channel, and then made the mistake of covering all my sourcebooks for it in one video, except for Cold Hands, Dark Hearts which I missed somehow. And sadly that book has become a kind of joke entry in the polls, as it always comes last (and may actually be the only book in a poll to receive zero votes in one particular poll).
I might go back and give the sourcebooks more of a chance as they deserved better than to be all lumped into one video.
I have limited experience with this game but wasn't a fan after trying it. Played a Wizard because I thought that's the sort of class to really grow and explore but it doesn't. Wizards start with access to all the spells their level can cast and there are no more spells given, so basically they work broadly the same as clerics do in other d20 games. Add to the fact that I really did not get on with the backgrounds system as opposed to set skills, as like you said, it's an exercise in creating the most broadly applicable background to maximise utility which no one told me upfront, I don't think I'll go back to it.
People talk up the One Unique Thing part or how good the icon system is and those do have potential, but they could easily be added to Pathfinder, World of Darkness, Fate, anything really, nothing ties either to 13th Age's system so still not a selling point for me.
This seems like an expectation problem. The "playstyle" and "spell" entries for the wizard class specifically mention that its different from what you expected. While wizards are not prepared casters they are still very different from clerics with their cyclical magic class feature. For the backgrounds, I find this problem only exists with people used to min-maxing. I am on my second 13A campaign and none of my players have this problem. Some backgrounds my current players have are "wrestler", "goat wrangler", and "miner." No one has thought about backgrounds other than as fun and flavorful background elements that make their characters more interesting.
@@Nezzeraj okay, I have updated what I said to avoid confusion over whether I meant Wizards work mostly like Clerics or exactly like Clerics. I hope this clarifies, I was not saying the two classes in this game are identical in how they cast spells.
On backgrounds: I'm not a min-maxer and I don't play with min-maxers or run for them, and I have a problem with the backgrounds.
I picked backgrounds for the game I was in, and couldn't do anything with them, was told to broaden them out to apply to more things, still couldn't do anything with them. I asked how my PC gets better at things they do in game, was told they don't. All PCs get a bonus to every roll when they level up (which I also dislike but that's another topic), but you only ever get a set number of background points, no more, unless you want to spend a Feat to get a few more. Sounded and felt very restrictive to play.
This might have been the way that group ran it but separately, three of them and three other friends have played a years long campaign of 13th age, so I have to assume they didn't run it badly for me, it's just that I don't like the way the game does things and it's not for me.
While I've got problems with the Backgrounds/Skills system, I do like a lot of the other elements, so I'd be willing to live with them. But personally I'd look at 13th age as a toolbox to add to D&D, which is something the authors suggest you do if you can't convince you're group to avoid D&D.
@@mattshaw8542 It's fair if a game just doesn't work for you, that happens to me too. The reason Backgrounds don't improve or you get more points is because they are backgrounds; they are what you did before becoming an adventurer. It would be like being a lawyer now but complaining you aren't advancing your fast food fry cook skills. I don't think the system is any more restrictive than a proper skill system since many of those systems only give a few points per level, and with so many skills you end up putting just 1 point in a few select skills anyway, which is exactly the same as adding your level as a bonus just explained differently.
@@RPGGamer That's a fair point. Personally I wouldn't like to play with a group that was against playing other games. While I don't hate 5e or PF, I don't play them either because there are so many better games that exist these days it would be like going to an ice cream shop with 30 flavors and only buying vanilla.
Eh, I don't think I like maneuvers much. It doesn't seem _natural_ to me to pick and choose what to do after you've rolled the die. It is interesting in that it limits the amount of stuff that you can choose from your list -- and there aren't that many to choose from, so it shouldn't hold the game for too long even if your fighter is at a pretty high level --, but yeah, I think I prefer a style of play where you choose what to do first, then act, then the next player makes a choice, then acts. I _like_ the idea of maneuvers as special abilities for the fighter. That's cool. I think that there should be a baseline list of maneuvers that any character could pick from, and a bigger one for the fighter players.
As for game suggestions, boy, do I have a list for you. :D
First off, I think I'd like to see you cover Castle Falkenstein. A game that not many people talk about but always seemed fascinating to me.
Then there's The Burning Wheel, but this one may be too complicated.
Hero is another one that seems really complicated...
Degenesis.
Any of the Ubiquity games (Hollow Earth Expedition, Desolation, All for One: Regime Diabolique...)
Eclipse Phase
Godlike
Kult
Legend of the Five Rings
Seventh Sea (1st edition, I really dislike 2nd ed) for the roll & keep mechanic, and the swordfighting schools.
The FASERIP Marvel Superheroes RPG, which is from TSR and uses an action table.
The Marvel Universe Roleplaying Game from 2003, which is diceless, and was written by the guy who wrote Paranoia. (It would be interesting to take a look at all the Marvel RPGs and the changes in philosophy between those games)
Shadow Of The Demon Lord or the newer Shadow Of The Weird Wizard
The FFG Star Wars RPG
The Dying Earth RPG by Pelgrane Press
One of The End of the World games by FFG
And I guess this is it... for now. :D
I think the Manuevers are a great idea, but I can see it slowing play, which I'm not keen on.
As for your list, Castle Falkenstein is one of those games which I picked up many times, but never actually bought. Into the next poll it goes (along with a bunch of suggestions from other watchers), and I'll keep your list and put them in polls for the future :D
@@RPGGamer Awesome, thanks!
I also recommended Burning Wheel once and I hope it makes it into the poll sometime! It can be a very complicated game but it works so well together. Also a huge fan of Kult but even flipping through the rulebook might not be family friendly lol.
As for fighters in 13th Age, the flexible attacks have been removed in 2e. Now, they choose before they attack from a pool of maneuvers. There is also a talent called Combat Rhythm where fighters switch between offensive and defensive stances, and they get advantage on any attacks using maneuvers that match the current stance the fighter is in (using a defensive maneuver while in defensive stance, for example).
@@Nezzeraj I've got a copy of Burning Wheel sitting here, but I recieved so many suggestions this time I'm going to leave it, as it looks a pretty weighty tome and I'll need time to peruse it. :)
The only thing worse than the rules, was the pis poor artwork. This game sucks, awoid at all cost😢
While I've some problems with some of the rules (I don't like the Backgrounds/Skills system at all), I do like a lot of what they've introduced as it gives the players options.