I do agree, but the gatekeeping of mokokos is a player solution to a game design problem. That being 6 characters, 18 raids a week, and excessive grinding to get there on top of it. If these things were toned down, people would still come to elitism, but it would be lessened.
@@Jukwolhit the nail right on the fucking head. what’s supposed to be the best experience of the game is now its source of dread. haven’t seen another mmo royally fuck their way into the grave like losy ark. lol
I’m a veteran player who took a month break, my main is 1660 and 5 1640 alts, I have no one to play with and the game just feels mad dead. Pushing to 1680 feels impossible. I got to play around with Ark Passive a little in trixion. I just feel like I fell behind and am playing an old version of the game. Only people having fun are 1680 plus with statics and multiple 1680s.
Yeah, I kind of know what you mean. My first static blew up after some drama and some RMT stuff and then my second static blew up because RMT and Exploits. It's hard to get a static these days on top of just actually getting 7 other people who operate on the same hours of free time.
They should go the BDO route with Ignite. In BDO you get a "seasonal ticket" every 3-4 months and the seasonal boost is permanent until you choose to "graduate" (it used to be an actual "seasonal" event but they just changed it to a permanent thing)
Yeah, that would be great. I've heard pretty good things about those new player servers for BDO. Ignite just has really shown as a really good environment to tinker around with classes with no commitment since the class selection area in trixion with a premade setup and no customization is cooked.
Sadly i think that lost ark like previous korean mmorpg reached the point where no matter what changes they bring it will not have such an impact in term of pulling back users, The stigma is too deep now, people moved on with their life and on other games, the interest from users outside of the lost ark bubble/cult is close to 0, In fact the only people hopping for changes are the one still actively playing with the hope that the game could shine again but it wont, you will notice only some lil'spike of returners from time to time and thats it I wish and hope to be wrong tho, great video as always from you.
That's unfortunately the conclusion I've come to as well. With something as big as Tier 4 and ignite being offset in playercount by like sub1k exploiters being banned, it seems everyone has made their mind up about Lost Ark, new and old alike. Those who have quit have wised up to the nature of the design of the game and probably understand that ultimately, nothing foundational changes about the game. And for potential new players looking in, they probably see how unhinged LOA players are and how they even talk about the game the claim to love and saw naw. And yeah, all mismanagement ain't doing no favors either. I wish to be wrong too, but it's not looking great. Thanks.
LOA's FOMO dynamic is what is killing the game. So many players exploit, cheat, RMT, etc because of FOMO and excessive vertical progression system rollout...players are forced into either being a gross TOS voilator or suffer being gatekept for not being a piece of garbage and eventually quit. It's the worst.
The problem with that is they would abuse it. Wipe pulls instantly or at whatever restriction it has. Per minute sounds like an AFK the raid situation unless they count it as in combat minutes. Then that's slightly more reasonable, but then they'll just find the best way to milk the fights for it.
I've been trying LOA for a year now and still have a big gap in gearing and struggle a lot with vertical. Meanwhile, I start playing ff14 for two months, and I'm 10 ilvl behind max ilvl. I tried most of the raid at ease. Without hesitation, I moved to Ff14 as my new main MMO. :) The LOA evergreen system needs to be fixed. A permanent nerf for old system (whatever till max armour trans) is required. Catch-up needs to be less time-consuming and 5 alts is a worst option ever. just give an option to play whatever in one character.
Yeah, it's just the best place to find a way to tinker with classes with no commitment but not make it something abusable. But also I think fresh accounts having an extra transfer wouldn't be a horrible idea either.
Here is the problem. Catching up in this game is horrible because it has too many vertical evergreen systems. To be able to get new players you would need to start players at ~1620 and give them EVERYTHING necessary so they dont get gatekept. Im talking AT LEAST Character level 60, The necessary T4 relic gear set ~1620, Level 5 Tier 4 gems, LoS 25, Elixir 40 set, Level 4 Transcendance, A good stone, A good bracelet, Good accesories, Engravings, Skill runes. Now make a new player understand ALL OF THAT. Veterans players are already complaining ALTS are too costly to upgrade to 1640+. As long as ALTS are too expensive new characters & players will be kept OFF this game. The only way to save the game is if the story gave and explain you EVERYTHING and then threw you into north kurzan beginning of the endgame.
Boosting is the only viable way to get new players into current development philosophy lost ark. I say this as someone who started day 1, did 2 x story express, 2 x jumpstart, 1 natural progression post t2 consolidation, and 2 x ignite. I personally feel there is no way to foster extrinsic interest into progressing through lost ark. There is too much stuff to learn. Story express just doesn't work with the amount of continents that we have. We are looking at 24+ hours of story alone just to reach areas where new players will see someone else. As much as streamers will propose this idea that players go through the story to learn, it's more likely the game gets dropped before a player reaches tier 3. We would need a super chopped down version of story express that reduces the story to 15-30 minutes a continent. Or... some kind of mount that would let you walk with 400% movement speed. There is a reason why the Smilegate, the masters of fomo and milking, haven't included story express in the past year and a half. Another worse thing along AGS mismanaging the game is the community. I don't mean the gatekeeping. I mean just helping out players in general. Documentation for anything in Lost Ark is absolutely atrocious. Systems and events will go outdated so quickly that sifting through all the info and videos is a borderline impossible task. Discords being one of the primary places to find information is extremely alienating. Streams are very hit or miss because sometimes nobody knows how to answer your question. I can count the number of people who actually care about the story because the focus in Lost Ark is about raiding. The only topics remaining are about progression, class balance, and the fights themselves. It's a lot of effort to get into Lost Ark. I commend anyone who sticks with it because it's more trouble than it's actually worth objectively speaking. It's many hours of researching, practice, waiting, and failing for the subjective reward of climbing a mountain. I do my best to try help as many people I can. I wish Smilegate would just bite the bullet and trim the progression down to basically the final 3 raids. Just make everything before the player base accessible at least for the AGS version. I can only surmise that greed is the only reason why they would pretend to keep the game is evergreen when they eventually just trim down the systems anyways later down the line.
Yeah, there is a point where being too Evergreen is a problem. Progression to the content is just being milked and being artificially inflated way too much and just the overall system bloat in the game.
with the issues of lost ark being unfriendly to learn for new players, horrible UI/guides/tutorials for new players, too many power systems thrown at new players at once, there is also the issue that the progression events never actually catch the new players up to the necessary level (even casual players want to have LoS30 + max trans + proper elixirs + at least full lv 5-7 T4 gems).
i would glad to return to LA but honestly it's too much time consuming, i need to play everyday doing chores instead of doing fun thing is the first thing that kills every my interest. Too much power systems, looking every single video takes times, raid are time consuming, even more when do gatekeeping, it's not funny to wait 3-4h for 1 single raid and u must do like 6 chars?. IF there were like solo raid i would try it gladly, i saw that smilegate still refuses to put dps meter and that there are big problems with juised people that don't have hads at all, this is another problem that drive this gatekeeping, at the end the solution is pretty simple, just reducing the timeconsuming stuff in the game and gg, the best thing is to limit gold to max 3 chars and not 6 so people didn't see that they "should" play 6 chars to keep up, doing chaos isn't that much funny too, specially every day or every 2 days, cards shouldn't exist or they just need to give away one decent card set close to los+30 and change stuff in mode weekly format instead of daily so people could find more time to do other stuff in game too. At the end LA atm is just too much time consuming, others games didn't require that much time to play daily to benining + most people with years need to pay attention to way more stuff than before and start to play less and less or have less time and there games like lol, poe/poe2/diablo or shooters gain more people, fk even genshin get a lot of dumb people (who claim to play for story, in a game with 3rd rate story for real), at the end for me lost ark remain lost in chores untill they change this kind of stuff i didn't want even see it, ( i didn't have any kind of gamba with gear ups at all but this shit on bracelet and new elixir or what it name it's painfull like stone cutting, another reason that people maybe hate this game even more)
Yeah, the progression and time consumption is something that really holds it back and sadly it's something we're seeing all too often in this industry. I personally am an advocate for a 3 man roster cap. As while optional, mmo gamers autistically try to minmax to the point it doesn't feel optional. I think this is a choice that should had been made to protect players from burning themselves out. But yeah I've drastically cut down my LOA time now because after like almost 3 years I realized I haven't really played many other games in this timespan, and I'm missing out on a lot of great games to do what? Chaos dungeon, Guardians, and the same raids on repeat for months. And right now, on basically a break from the game doing the bare minimal while I play other games after a static destruction, it's been pretty liberating to play other games.
I agree. Something I like to talk about is that we need to get new players and now the concern is we have no goodwill for new players to even give the game a chance. And I'm hearing that people who did try ignite, a lot are quitting now after attempting to integrate with the pre-existing community.
@@Jukwol Issue is they're scared of accelarating the mokoko bootcamp further. A completely new player coming straight out of ignite can not catch up to raid standards of max transcendance AND hone to 1660 with only 200k gold. It just takes far too long to actually catch up with current content (1660) for a new player and every gold they get is just immediately evaporated by a bunch of random shit. Just doesn't feel good honestly. if you want to handhold people with ignite and bootcamp (clearly their intention) you have to do it all the way to current end game content or it just simply does not make any sense.
The loa subreddit say that steamcharts aren’t a representation of the playerbase and they aren’t accurate. So please stop or the white knight shill might come after you. They still believe it’s a healthy playerbase at the moment 😂
It's such a weird thing to say that steamcharts isn't accurate when it is the only platform for Lost Ark. I used NGS as a minor example, which you can argue it isn't accurate since it is multi platform. But regardless of whatever game it is, it doesn't change the fact on gains and drops. The conversation really shouldn't be about a game being dead or alive, but obtaining and retaining. Everyone who plays will eventually quit, so a game needs to bring in more bodies to replace them otherwise it will absolutely get to that point of a 4 digit player count that looks like it will go to three and then just survive off a handful of dedicated giga whales. I think in general Lost Ark is in an okay place, right now there is almost 20k people on which is pretty good. But then we could also talk about how many of these are bots and get depressed. But overall just seeing the peak players and average drop is more so my focus when looking at charts. I would love to see Gains be positive and the best we have is for the past 3 months it hasn't really gone up or down too much as opposed to a sharp decline. I understand when people really love a game and try their best to paint it in the best possible light, but when you ignore faults and do not give feedback, you're ultimately doing the game more harm than good because people are still refusing to play or leaving the game you are so desperately trying to shill. It's good to highlight the good and the bad, as acknowledging faults and correcting them is how you improve. Nothing is perfect out the gate.
It’s more akin to wows arena ladder, eventually lost ark will just be the whales and their alts all raiding together at the top. Dead empty low end. I mean it already is…
You can feel it at latest content. First two weeks of Aegir NM lobbies sat waiting for an hour + for supps. Now it’s the same but for DPS. Too many vertical systems that cost too much in time + gold so people just stop and do something better than their time
Honestly, it's not that hard to fix. Players have provided solutions. Other games have found solutions. Smilegate simply does not want to implement solutions because by doing so, it would make them less money. They want players to feel bad about the progression to encourage them to pay money to avoid it. This is the problem with all p2w games.
sad to watch how toxic community have become. I played lost ark for first 4 months and had to quit because there was simply no class for me when lance master was released i came back and quitted 4 weeks later i was gatekeept to much sadly on gems and cards so yea wish they wipped all content so we could start from 0 but that is just not fair for current players. About raid gatekeeping i dont know why there are no sherpa runs like in destiny 2 i would say that both games raiding takes a lot of knowledge and skill but gatekeeping is not a problem in destiny 2 because of sherpas.
I'm a bit out of date with Destiny 2, but I know the concept of sherpa. I think it comes down to game design. To my knowledge, Destiny 2 still has a weekly raid lockout? Which while the same as Loa, players in Destiny won't feel FOMO of being a one character andy. On top of that we have Lost Ark's expensive and time consuming progression that doesn't allow players to raid log. And I think with Destiny 2 it's the type of game where if you get all the drops in the raid, you can just never go back if you want, vs a weekly run you since your gold is tied to it and a huge factor to your progression. The only other factor I could think of is also if Destiny 2 raid design is like Lost Ark where there are fights where one mess up is one death and one death = restart. A lot of LOA and modern MMO game design is just self destructive.
The problem is that veteran players want new players to join, but they don’t want to play with them.
I agree and some veteran are really toxic toward newcomers while in raid
The last thing I want to do when starting new dungeon is watch a hour long mandatory guide just to not get instakicked.
I do agree, but the gatekeeping of mokokos is a player solution to a game design problem. That being 6 characters, 18 raids a week, and excessive grinding to get there on top of it. If these things were toned down, people would still come to elitism, but it would be lessened.
@@Jukwolhit the nail right on the fucking head. what’s supposed to be the best experience of the game is now its source of dread. haven’t seen another mmo royally fuck their way into the grave like losy ark. lol
Sometimes I think this guy invented yapping. You are the supreme yapper my friend always entertaining
I’m a veteran player who took a month break, my main is 1660 and 5 1640 alts, I have no one to play with and the game just feels mad dead. Pushing to 1680 feels impossible. I got to play around with Ark Passive a little in trixion. I just feel like I fell behind and am playing an old version of the game. Only people having fun are 1680 plus with statics and multiple 1680s.
Yeah, I kind of know what you mean. My first static blew up after some drama and some RMT stuff and then my second static blew up because RMT and Exploits. It's hard to get a static these days on top of just actually getting 7 other people who operate on the same hours of free time.
They should go the BDO route with Ignite. In BDO you get a "seasonal ticket" every 3-4 months and the seasonal boost is permanent until you choose to "graduate" (it used to be an actual "seasonal" event but they just changed it to a permanent thing)
Yeah, that would be great. I've heard pretty good things about those new player servers for BDO. Ignite just has really shown as a really good environment to tinker around with classes with no commitment since the class selection area in trixion with a premade setup and no customization is cooked.
Sadly i think that lost ark like previous korean mmorpg reached the point where no matter what changes they bring it will not have such an impact in term of pulling back users,
The stigma is too deep now, people moved on with their life and on other games, the interest from users outside of the lost ark bubble/cult is close to 0,
In fact the only people hopping for changes are the one still actively playing with the hope that the game could shine again but it wont, you will notice only some lil'spike of returners from time to time and thats it
I wish and hope to be wrong tho, great video as always from you.
That's unfortunately the conclusion I've come to as well. With something as big as Tier 4 and ignite being offset in playercount by like sub1k exploiters being banned, it seems everyone has made their mind up about Lost Ark, new and old alike.
Those who have quit have wised up to the nature of the design of the game and probably understand that ultimately, nothing foundational changes about the game. And for potential new players looking in, they probably see how unhinged LOA players are and how they even talk about the game the claim to love and saw naw.
And yeah, all mismanagement ain't doing no favors either. I wish to be wrong too, but it's not looking great. Thanks.
LOA's FOMO dynamic is what is killing the game. So many players exploit, cheat, RMT, etc because of FOMO and excessive vertical progression system rollout...players are forced into either being a gross TOS voilator or suffer being gatekept for not being a piece of garbage and eventually quit. It's the worst.
Veterans shouldnt be punished for failing pulls with mokokos. Tokens should be per pull or per minute in raid in ADDITION to tokens per gate clear
The problem with that is they would abuse it. Wipe pulls instantly or at whatever restriction it has. Per minute sounds like an AFK the raid situation unless they count it as in combat minutes. Then that's slightly more reasonable, but then they'll just find the best way to milk the fights for it.
I've been trying LOA for a year now and still have a big gap in gearing and struggle a lot with vertical. Meanwhile, I start playing ff14 for two months, and I'm 10 ilvl behind max ilvl. I tried most of the raid at ease. Without hesitation, I moved to Ff14 as my new main MMO. :) The LOA evergreen system needs to be fixed. A permanent nerf for old system (whatever till max armour trans) is required. Catch-up needs to be less time-consuming and 5 alts is a worst option ever. just give an option to play whatever in one character.
I definitely like the idea of Ignite on all the time but the transfer windows limited 👍
Yeah, it's just the best place to find a way to tinker with classes with no commitment but not make it something abusable. But also I think fresh accounts having an extra transfer wouldn't be a horrible idea either.
Here is the problem.
Catching up in this game is horrible because it has too many vertical evergreen systems.
To be able to get new players you would need to start players at ~1620 and give them EVERYTHING necessary so they dont get gatekept.
Im talking AT LEAST Character level 60, The necessary T4 relic gear set ~1620, Level 5 Tier 4 gems, LoS 25, Elixir 40 set, Level 4 Transcendance, A good stone, A good bracelet, Good accesories, Engravings, Skill runes.
Now make a new player understand ALL OF THAT.
Veterans players are already complaining ALTS are too costly to upgrade to 1640+. As long as ALTS are too expensive new characters & players will be kept OFF this game.
The only way to save the game is if the story gave and explain you EVERYTHING and then threw you into north kurzan beginning of the endgame.
Yah I stopped fr14 cus you have to do the whole story from each exp before you get to the newest one
ignite was huge success in my region!
Boosting is the only viable way to get new players into current development philosophy lost ark.
I say this as someone who started day 1, did 2 x story express, 2 x jumpstart, 1 natural progression post t2 consolidation, and 2 x ignite.
I personally feel there is no way to foster extrinsic interest into progressing through lost ark. There is too much stuff to learn.
Story express just doesn't work with the amount of continents that we have. We are looking at 24+ hours of story alone just to reach areas where new players will see someone else. As much as streamers will propose this idea that players go through the story to learn, it's more likely the game gets dropped before a player reaches tier 3. We would need a super chopped down version of story express that reduces the story to 15-30 minutes a continent. Or... some kind of mount that would let you walk with 400% movement speed. There is a reason why the Smilegate, the masters of fomo and milking, haven't included story express in the past year and a half.
Another worse thing along AGS mismanaging the game is the community. I don't mean the gatekeeping. I mean just helping out players in general. Documentation for anything in Lost Ark is absolutely atrocious. Systems and events will go outdated so quickly that sifting through all the info and videos is a borderline impossible task. Discords being one of the primary places to find information is extremely alienating. Streams are very hit or miss because sometimes nobody knows how to answer your question. I can count the number of people who actually care about the story because the focus in Lost Ark is about raiding. The only topics remaining are about progression, class balance, and the fights themselves.
It's a lot of effort to get into Lost Ark. I commend anyone who sticks with it because it's more trouble than it's actually worth objectively speaking. It's many hours of researching, practice, waiting, and failing for the subjective reward of climbing a mountain. I do my best to try help as many people I can.
I wish Smilegate would just bite the bullet and trim the progression down to basically the final 3 raids. Just make everything before the player base accessible at least for the AGS version. I can only surmise that greed is the only reason why they would pretend to keep the game is evergreen when they eventually just trim down the systems anyways later down the line.
Yeah, there is a point where being too Evergreen is a problem. Progression to the content is just being milked and being artificially inflated way too much and just the overall system bloat in the game.
with the issues of lost ark being unfriendly to learn for new players, horrible UI/guides/tutorials for new players, too many power systems thrown at new players at once, there is also the issue that the progression events never actually catch the new players up to the necessary level (even casual players want to have LoS30 + max trans + proper elixirs + at least full lv 5-7 T4 gems).
i would glad to return to LA but honestly it's too much time consuming, i need to play everyday doing chores instead of doing fun thing is the first thing that kills every my interest. Too much power systems, looking every single video takes times, raid are time consuming, even more when do gatekeeping, it's not funny to wait 3-4h for 1 single raid and u must do like 6 chars?. IF there were like solo raid i would try it gladly, i saw that smilegate still refuses to put dps meter and that there are big problems with juised people that don't have hads at all, this is another problem that drive this gatekeeping, at the end the solution is pretty simple, just reducing the timeconsuming stuff in the game and gg, the best thing is to limit gold to max 3 chars and not 6 so people didn't see that they "should" play 6 chars to keep up, doing chaos isn't that much funny too, specially every day or every 2 days, cards shouldn't exist or they just need to give away one decent card set close to los+30 and change stuff in mode weekly format instead of daily so people could find more time to do other stuff in game too. At the end LA atm is just too much time consuming, others games didn't require that much time to play daily to benining + most people with years need to pay attention to way more stuff than before and start to play less and less or have less time and there games like lol, poe/poe2/diablo or shooters gain more people, fk even genshin get a lot of dumb people (who claim to play for story, in a game with 3rd rate story for real), at the end for me lost ark remain lost in chores untill they change this kind of stuff i didn't want even see it, ( i didn't have any kind of gamba with gear ups at all but this shit on bracelet and new elixir or what it name it's painfull like stone cutting, another reason that people maybe hate this game even more)
Yeah, the progression and time consumption is something that really holds it back and sadly it's something we're seeing all too often in this industry. I personally am an advocate for a 3 man roster cap. As while optional, mmo gamers autistically try to minmax to the point it doesn't feel optional. I think this is a choice that should had been made to protect players from burning themselves out.
But yeah I've drastically cut down my LOA time now because after like almost 3 years I realized I haven't really played many other games in this timespan, and I'm missing out on a lot of great games to do what? Chaos dungeon, Guardians, and the same raids on repeat for months. And right now, on basically a break from the game doing the bare minimal while I play other games after a static destruction, it's been pretty liberating to play other games.
Biggest problem is this game got no new players.
I agree. Something I like to talk about is that we need to get new players and now the concern is we have no goodwill for new players to even give the game a chance. And I'm hearing that people who did try ignite, a lot are quitting now after attempting to integrate with the pre-existing community.
@@Jukwol Issue is they're scared of accelarating the mokoko bootcamp further. A completely new player coming straight out of ignite can not catch up to raid standards of max transcendance AND hone to 1660 with only 200k gold. It just takes far too long to actually catch up with current content (1660) for a new player and every gold they get is just immediately evaporated by a bunch of random shit. Just doesn't feel good honestly.
if you want to handhold people with ignite and bootcamp (clearly their intention) you have to do it all the way to current end game content or it just simply does not make any sense.
The loa subreddit say that steamcharts aren’t a representation of the playerbase and they aren’t accurate. So please stop or the white knight shill might come after you. They still believe it’s a healthy playerbase at the moment 😂
It's such a weird thing to say that steamcharts isn't accurate when it is the only platform for Lost Ark. I used NGS as a minor example, which you can argue it isn't accurate since it is multi platform. But regardless of whatever game it is, it doesn't change the fact on gains and drops. The conversation really shouldn't be about a game being dead or alive, but obtaining and retaining.
Everyone who plays will eventually quit, so a game needs to bring in more bodies to replace them otherwise it will absolutely get to that point of a 4 digit player count that looks like it will go to three and then just survive off a handful of dedicated giga whales.
I think in general Lost Ark is in an okay place, right now there is almost 20k people on which is pretty good. But then we could also talk about how many of these are bots and get depressed. But overall just seeing the peak players and average drop is more so my focus when looking at charts. I would love to see Gains be positive and the best we have is for the past 3 months it hasn't really gone up or down too much as opposed to a sharp decline.
I understand when people really love a game and try their best to paint it in the best possible light, but when you ignore faults and do not give feedback, you're ultimately doing the game more harm than good because people are still refusing to play or leaving the game you are so desperately trying to shill. It's good to highlight the good and the bad, as acknowledging faults and correcting them is how you improve. Nothing is perfect out the gate.
It’s more akin to wows arena ladder, eventually lost ark will just be the whales and their alts all raiding together at the top. Dead empty low end. I mean it already is…
You can feel it at latest content. First two weeks of Aegir NM lobbies sat waiting for an hour + for supps. Now it’s the same but for DPS. Too many vertical systems that cost too much in time + gold so people just stop and do something better than their time
Honestly, it's not that hard to fix. Players have provided solutions. Other games have found solutions. Smilegate simply does not want to implement solutions because by doing so, it would make them less money. They want players to feel bad about the progression to encourage them to pay money to avoid it. This is the problem with all p2w games.
sad to watch how toxic community have become. I played lost ark for first 4 months and had to quit because there was simply no class for me when lance master was released i came back and quitted 4 weeks later i was gatekeept to much sadly on gems and cards so yea wish they wipped all content so we could start from 0 but that is just not fair for current players. About raid gatekeeping i dont know why there are no sherpa runs like in destiny 2 i would say that both games raiding takes a lot of knowledge and skill but gatekeeping is not a problem in destiny 2 because of sherpas.
I'm a bit out of date with Destiny 2, but I know the concept of sherpa. I think it comes down to game design. To my knowledge, Destiny 2 still has a weekly raid lockout? Which while the same as Loa, players in Destiny won't feel FOMO of being a one character andy. On top of that we have Lost Ark's expensive and time consuming progression that doesn't allow players to raid log. And I think with Destiny 2 it's the type of game where if you get all the drops in the raid, you can just never go back if you want, vs a weekly run you since your gold is tied to it and a huge factor to your progression.
The only other factor I could think of is also if Destiny 2 raid design is like Lost Ark where there are fights where one mess up is one death and one death = restart.
A lot of LOA and modern MMO game design is just self destructive.
óóóór óóóór , gozei