I live right along the Waterbury line and that’s what sparked my interest in trains as a kid. The biggest issue to me with the line is the lack of ridership. There’s just not enough reason to take the train if you live along that branch line right now. Certainly connections to New York and Hartford would help but I actually think a new station which serves the Sikorsky/Lockheed Martin aircraft plant would give the greatest impact. If they built a station across the river from the factory in Milford, they could utilize the existing footpath and pedestrian access the bridge near the factory offers to connect the factory and the station. It would allow people to easily commute to work by train and increase ridership, giving the line a greater purpose in the network. Connecting the population centers along the coastline to Sikorsky seems to be a huge opportunity for Metro-North. Maybe my proximity to the line makes it an obvious idea for me but I’m surprised this hasn’t been discussed anywhere yet to my knowledge
I grew up here! Went to Naugatuck High School and lived in Beacon Falls! It only takes 30 minutes todrive the entire route! For a reward for getting on the honor roll in 1968, my dad took me on the train from Naugatuck to NYC. He grew up in Brooklyn, and we spent an entire day in the city! Its the only time in my life I’ve actually been there!!
I've learnt an awful lot about the branch thanks to this video. Incidentally I think it's silly that the original Waterbury station building isn't used by trains anymore. It's a shame that neither Danbury nor Waterbury are included on the New York to New Haven route in Train Simulator, yet the New Canaan branch is included. Beacons Falls has to be the strangest station on this line. I've rarely seen platforms that tiny; looks like they'd only be able to fit one door on there (like at Berney Arms in England).
Beacon Falls was created as a bedroom community and housing for US Rubber employees. My father worked at the Naugatuck plant, and we lived on South Circle in BF. I didn’t think the tracks were anything but freight, and passenger from Waterbury to Naugy and south. A lot of infrastructure was wipes out in the hurricanes and floods that followed.
If anything was short-sighted, it was the abandonment of the Meriden & Waterbury Railroad (though some of the topography was uncooperative). This could have been a nice east-west route roughly through part of the median of our rectangular state. There is a piece of that old route with old tracks still in place through Baldwin Park in Meriden.
Great presentation. I learned a lot. I'm a fan of the Pascack Valley Line -- they have recently been running a GP40P heritage unit n CNJ livery, making for a trip back in time!
I live north of the danbury branch- The Housatonic Railroad Company currently operates between the danbury station, all the way up to pittsfield, MA. I sometimes see them moving around cars, though I've actually been noticing them more frequently.
As a new resident of Naugatuck who is a longtime railfan, I naturally take a great interest in the line's past, present, and future. So your excellent video couldn’t have been more satisfying to me if you'd known I was waiting for something like it. The relatively low ridership always has me worried about the branch's sustainability. I'd certainly like to see it double tracked and electrified, but I think the first priority is restoring service to Hartford. A line that could bring commuters to Hartford would both strengthen the branch's raison d'etre and benefit every town in the Naugatuck Valley, making them even more appealing as bedroom communities. After that, the next logical step would be electrification and direct service from Grand Central to Hartford via Waterbury. A one-seat ride to GCT without the transfer at Bridgeport would be a boon to everyone in the Valley as well as to New York-bound travelers from Hartford.
I'm from Haverstraw and damn seeing the alignment just being built on is sad. They'll probably never restore service, My neighbor (he was born in the 1910s) as a child went to Haverstraw High School and said he had classmates that came from Suffern and Spring Valley by train. Crazy to think that I got to hear these story's first hand that now seem like fair distant tales. Great video and I look forward to see your alignment!
The Waterbury and Danbury branches have the lowest local fares on Metro-North: $2.50. On the New Haven main line and New Canaan branch, base local fare is $2.75 and local intermediate fare in NY State is $3 (outside Manhattan).
this video made a good watch party thanks for this i think danbury would be significantly better for the purpose of this video, as, from my personal experience, trains travel very rarely along that. i got stuck on wilton once. screw wilton's layout where you have to cross tracks to get onto the platform. danbury branch also uses low level platforms sometimes (merritt 7 is literally a bus station, like ansonia), is a (norwalk to danbury, norwalk has a separate platform just for danbury trains that ends right there), and has, like what, one train traveling on it at any time (usually)? anyway, great video. one of the best on the platform. never knew i loved train videos.
One other thing that would help is the return of industries in the heart of downtowns along that line. Waterbury, Ansonia, Derby, Naugatuck and a lot of other places used to be huge manufacturing towns. Sucks that now they're just ghosts of their former selves.
I like the solutions, but there’s one thing involved that may scratch all of that. Money. To put in overhead wires plus a 2nd track. It would be problematic and almost useless, speaking that the ridership numbers do not support more trains and the need for a 2nd track. I can see bigger sidings, since you have P&W CT-2. Which works O&G, and Pan Am Railways PL-1. Which rarely runs to Derby to interchange with the Housatonic Railroad. The time I see a double track main fit is when both freight and Passenger are both incorporated. So that passenger trains can maneuver around freight that might be holding up a part of the line, this includes local freight and if through freight was established like CR NHSE/SENH which ran from New Haven to Selkirk. That’s when a double track main would be needed
If I had to choose one it would be from my home state of Massachusetts and were talking about MBTA’s Newburyport/Rockport Line. This branch always has bridge problems and derailments, Bridges being rebuilt cause the branch half the line to be shut down for periods of time
To truly fix the Atlantic City Line, they should revive the Blue Comet route from NYC to AC via Winslow Jct (mostly the original route) but your suggestion of extending PATCO is a good one, albeit only 15 miles to a connection at Winslow or thereabouts. That would solve the Camden-Philly thing. It was routing the train through Philly that brought down the Amtrak service and NJT stepped in, but only from Philly. That brings me to Allentown. Nothing I'd like more than the extension back out here but when you say "local service", I have to inform you that NJT is not permitted to run any line in more than one other state ergo, it has to be Amtrak to come from NYC. BTW, my road's (Bel-Del) affiliate, Chesapeake & Delaware is now running a recently restored part of the Blue Comet route south of Lakehurst. It is do-able.
Not sure if the Blue Comet rout through the Pine Barrens is even viable anymore? That trackage goes through the Lakehurst Naval Base if i’m not mistaken.
I will say the bridge thing isn't as much of a determinate as you would think. The old Santa Fe line from Richmond to Stockton has some bridge abutments that would suggest double tracking, but it wasn't. They had the space to double track it, but at some point in the 60s they started selling off the land. A friend of my mom had across the street neighbors who bought the land to get a bigger back yard. But, the school I worked at had an over pass that has the space for a second track still.
Good point. However, after looking at old maps and current right of ways for some of these branches, I've noticed that in multiple cases, the right of way can hold as many tracks as there is space available on the bridge, especially if two bridges are less than 5 miles apart from each other.
@@Pensyfan19 I'm just saying that they may have had or still have the space to double track and have never done so. At least too far past where known historical double track ended. Not to mention, that depending on how much foresight the railroad had, there could be extant infrastructure where no double tracking existed. Which is true of where I was working.
0:13 I'm not sure if I'd choose the Candiac line as the odd one out for Montréal. The Mascouche line is probably the weirdest, with it's history of semi electrification and especially now that it takes a super circuitous route to get downtown, and it will soon not go downtown at all
When people who built houses over the right-of-way decide to go into NIMBY mode, we should tell them "you should have thought of that before you put your back yard on property that isn't yours". Or did some idiot or crook (or both) in state management actually sell it lawfully to the developers?
Can someone please tell me what app he is using, showing all the different rail lines in the state abandoned or not, and what company they belonged to. I would have ages of fun with that.
What metro North needs to do is look at some overseas stations in UK and Germany Dresden VVO RMV Frankfurt am Main to see if you can Actually integrate a restaurant which was actually the original station and new platform although the platform height should be 121cm 48 in To match the other platforms on the electrified portion and Waterbury. Ideal train is a Flirt Dual Mode like a UK class 755 flirt Electric mode until the Junction with Waterbury Branch then Diesel from there to Waterbury. The worst case scenario is that the electrical system has failed and must run diesel all the way to grand central terminal like a Brookville locomotive in rare situations. Between Waterbury and Hartford why not put Light rail tracks On the existing right of way for the busses then operated like like Seattle Transit tunnel when it had Buses and Trams running through there. On the Busway it would go something like this bus gets there then the tram then the bus
if it dose get coverted in should get t extensions one south to at least the long island ferry pier and the to Bridgeport university via both a station linked to both the stadium and ampetheater. and north from waterbury staion t via waterbury green and then north along hill strret to the waterbury mall or east to both the cherry valley mall an, waterbury hospital and a slight bit north to the waterbury stadium whose paringlot would get pronably both the maitenece center and a new bus intherchagre
the line should loop the trains so what gose up the valle to Waterbury comes back to Bridgeport vie Danbury and stamford and if the ferries come back time them ti meet the ceoss sound ferries,
@@MosheFeder what new roght of way ther is already a frieght line betwen danbiry and waterbury might need awkardly placed or expensive to buils new swishes.
That chart was based on 2018 figures in the Trans Regional Express proposal, so it may not be entirely accurate to today's standards, but still shows a general trend when compared to other branch lines.
Way, (wei?) too much $ to do anything more than to administer oxygen to these lines. (All the taxpayers are moving out.) I like they way your voice sounds at 0.75 playback speed.🤠
The line probably doesn't have enough traffic or even potential to justify two tracks. Furthermore most traffic is in the demand direction, folks commuting into NYC during rush hour and return later that day. I would be much cheaper to run a bus in the reverse direction and I bet everybody would have a seat. It would be better if this could be a through service to GC. There aren't too many alternatives for the rolling stock, the old Budd cars are 70 years old and Budd is out of business and nobody makes a railcar to FRA standards nor is anybody going to make one since the potential market is so small. Since there is no freight traffic on this line, they could use the diesel tram cars that NJ uses on its Camden/Trenton line. Not enough trains to justify electrification. I am a transit and train advocate but you have to be real, commuter lines are big time money losers even when the have good ridership, simply the fares are too low and the expenses too high. Locomotive engineers make more than most airline pilots and have a steadier job with a better benefit history (airlines go bankrupt and cancel their retirement, the railroad plan is federal and you don't want to hear of their not paying, everything would close immediately). governments have a lot of differing responsibilities and have to allocate available funds generally going to whoever screams the loudest. Nobody really cries for 'rich' suburban commuters.
@henryyostman5740 - I don't think there's much commuting to and from NYC taking place on the Waterbury Branch. The trip is just way too long. Not many people want to spend five hours on the train every weekday. That's right, it takes 2½ hours or more to get from someplace like Naugatuck to GCT. And then you still aren’t at your office! I think you'd have to somehow get that down to 90 minutes max before many people would do it. If that's even theoretically possible, it couldn’t be done at an affordable cost. A much better prospect to increase ridership would be service to Hartford. It's a much shorter trip and I think people who currently make that commute by car would welcome the alternative. It wouldn’t be long before the whole Naugatuck Valley became more appealing as a Hartford suburb. Higher service frequency might also increase its appeal for people who want to commute to Bridgeport. In the long run, one-seat service from GCT via Waterbury to Hartford and back might actually allow the branch to finally pay its way.
I almost died of laughter when he said "Look at this station in this quaint little town..."
I live right along the Waterbury line and that’s what sparked my interest in trains as a kid. The biggest issue to me with the line is the lack of ridership. There’s just not enough reason to take the train if you live along that branch line right now. Certainly connections to New York and Hartford would help but I actually think a new station which serves the Sikorsky/Lockheed Martin aircraft plant would give the greatest impact. If they built a station across the river from the factory in Milford, they could utilize the existing footpath and pedestrian access the bridge near the factory offers to connect the factory and the station. It would allow people to easily commute to work by train and increase ridership, giving the line a greater purpose in the network. Connecting the population centers along the coastline to Sikorsky seems to be a huge opportunity for Metro-North. Maybe my proximity to the line makes it an obvious idea for me but I’m surprised this hasn’t been discussed anywhere yet to my knowledge
As someone who grew up on the PV line (in NJ but still) thank you for recognizing us, the saddest line on NJT (in my opinion)
I grew up here! Went to Naugatuck High School and lived in Beacon Falls! It only takes 30 minutes todrive the entire route! For a reward for getting on the honor roll in 1968, my dad took me on the train from Naugatuck to NYC. He grew up in Brooklyn, and we spent an entire day in the city! Its the only time in my life I’ve actually been there!!
I've learnt an awful lot about the branch thanks to this video. Incidentally I think it's silly that the original Waterbury station building isn't used by trains anymore. It's a shame that neither Danbury nor Waterbury are included on the New York to New Haven route in Train Simulator, yet the New Canaan branch is included.
Beacons Falls has to be the strangest station on this line. I've rarely seen platforms that tiny; looks like they'd only be able to fit one door on there (like at Berney Arms in England).
Beacon Falls was created as a bedroom community and housing for US Rubber employees. My father worked at the Naugatuck plant, and we lived on South Circle in BF. I didn’t think the tracks were anything but freight, and passenger from Waterbury to Naugy and south. A lot of infrastructure was wipes out in the hurricanes and floods that followed.
If anything was short-sighted, it was the abandonment of the Meriden & Waterbury Railroad (though some of the topography was uncooperative). This could have been a nice east-west route roughly through part of the median of our rectangular state. There is a piece of that old route with old tracks still in place through Baldwin Park in Meriden.
Great presentation. I learned a lot. I'm a fan of the Pascack Valley Line -- they have recently been running a GP40P heritage unit n CNJ livery, making for a trip back in time!
The station resturant at naugatuck is actually great
I live north of the danbury branch- The Housatonic Railroad Company currently operates between the danbury station, all the way up to pittsfield, MA. I sometimes see them moving around cars, though I've actually been noticing them more frequently.
I’d love to see Waterbury or Hartford to Providence.
As a new resident of Naugatuck who is a longtime railfan, I naturally take a great interest in the line's past, present, and future. So your excellent video couldn’t have been more satisfying to me if you'd known I was waiting for something like it.
The relatively low ridership always has me worried about the branch's sustainability. I'd certainly like to see it double tracked and electrified, but I think the first priority is restoring service to Hartford. A line that could bring commuters to Hartford would both strengthen the branch's raison d'etre and benefit every town in the Naugatuck Valley, making them even more appealing as bedroom communities. After that, the next logical step would be electrification and direct service from Grand Central to Hartford via Waterbury. A one-seat ride to GCT without the transfer at Bridgeport would be a boon to everyone in the Valley as well as to New York-bound travelers from Hartford.
Just electrify all of Metro North already. Ned Lamont we're watching.
I rode this train all of the time in the early 80s when I lived in Ansonia.
I'm from Haverstraw and damn seeing the alignment just being built on is sad. They'll probably never restore service, My neighbor (he was born in the 1910s) as a child went to Haverstraw High School and said he had classmates that came from Suffern and Spring Valley by train. Crazy to think that I got to hear these story's first hand that now seem like fair distant tales. Great video and I look forward to see your alignment!
In 1910 the only alternative to the train was the trolley. Then came the auto and the bus, the rest was history for the passenger rails.
the station at 10:00 used to be the Naugatuck Train Station but its now a restaurant "The Station"
The Waterbury and Danbury branches have the lowest local fares on Metro-North: $2.50. On the New Haven main line and New Canaan branch, base local fare is $2.75 and local intermediate fare in NY State is $3 (outside Manhattan).
this video made a good watch party thanks for this
i think danbury would be significantly better for the purpose of this video, as, from my personal experience, trains travel very rarely along that. i got stuck on wilton once. screw wilton's layout where you have to cross tracks to get onto the platform.
danbury branch also uses low level platforms sometimes (merritt 7 is literally a bus station, like ansonia), is a (norwalk to danbury, norwalk has a separate platform just for danbury trains that ends right there), and has, like what, one train traveling on it at any time (usually)?
anyway, great video. one of the best on the platform. never knew i loved train videos.
One other thing that would help is the return of industries in the heart of downtowns along that line. Waterbury, Ansonia, Derby, Naugatuck and a lot of other places used to be huge manufacturing towns. Sucks that now they're just ghosts of their former selves.
I like the solutions, but there’s one thing involved that may scratch all of that. Money. To put in overhead wires plus a 2nd track. It would be problematic and almost useless, speaking that the ridership numbers do not support more trains and the need for a 2nd track. I can see bigger sidings, since you have P&W CT-2. Which works O&G, and Pan Am Railways PL-1. Which rarely runs to Derby to interchange with the Housatonic Railroad. The time I see a double track main fit is when both freight and Passenger are both incorporated. So that passenger trains can maneuver around freight that might be holding up a part of the line, this includes local freight and if through freight was established like CR NHSE/SENH which ran from New Haven to Selkirk. That’s when a double track main would be needed
If I had to choose one it would be from my home state of Massachusetts and were talking about MBTA’s Newburyport/Rockport Line. This branch always has bridge problems and derailments, Bridges being rebuilt cause the branch half the line to be shut down for periods of time
Connecticut rail is one of the rail networks of all time
Thank goodness they are increasing service to make it good
9:26 - high level platform was built in 1997
To truly fix the Atlantic City Line, they should revive the Blue Comet route from NYC to AC via Winslow Jct (mostly the original route) but your suggestion of extending PATCO is a good one, albeit only 15 miles to a connection at Winslow or thereabouts. That would solve the Camden-Philly thing. It was routing the train through Philly that brought down the Amtrak service and NJT stepped in, but only from Philly. That brings me to Allentown. Nothing I'd like more than the extension back out here but when you say "local service", I have to inform you that NJT is not permitted to run any line in more than one other state ergo, it has to be Amtrak to come from NYC. BTW, my road's (Bel-Del) affiliate, Chesapeake & Delaware is now running a recently restored part of the Blue Comet route south of Lakehurst. It is do-able.
I think you commented on the wrong video but I absolutely agree that the route of the Blue Comet should be restored.
Not sure if the Blue Comet rout through the Pine Barrens is even viable anymore? That trackage goes through the Lakehurst Naval Base if i’m not mistaken.
If haven’t done a review for the housatonic railroad and it’s former passenger service it would be neat learning a thing or two about that.
Thanks for this very-informative presentation!
I will say the bridge thing isn't as much of a determinate as you would think. The old Santa Fe line from Richmond to Stockton has some bridge abutments that would suggest double tracking, but it wasn't. They had the space to double track it, but at some point in the 60s they started selling off the land. A friend of my mom had across the street neighbors who bought the land to get a bigger back yard. But, the school I worked at had an over pass that has the space for a second track still.
Good point. However, after looking at old maps and current right of ways for some of these branches, I've noticed that in multiple cases, the right of way can hold as many tracks as there is space available on the bridge, especially if two bridges are less than 5 miles apart from each other.
@@Pensyfan19 I'm just saying that they may have had or still have the space to double track and have never done so. At least too far past where known historical double track ended. Not to mention, that depending on how much foresight the railroad had, there could be extant infrastructure where no double tracking existed. Which is true of where I was working.
0:13 I'm not sure if I'd choose the Candiac line as the odd one out for Montréal. The Mascouche line is probably the weirdest, with it's history of semi electrification and especially now that it takes a super circuitous route to get downtown, and it will soon not go downtown at all
That line needs to be converted into a REM service.
This isn't actually a train video. This is just a Steamed Hams video where the location is the train instead of Principal Skinner's house.
I take Grand Central train to Waterbury every weekend
Video in a nutshell:
*S E Y M O U R*
For the Haverstraw line, elevated track or underground track are always an option
What line is that?
Dual purpose locomotives is a reasonable suggestion. This would limit the changeover at NH
Siding make that crossing loop
A siding on is actually a track reserved for storing access wagons and other in rolling stock
I commute daily on the Gladstone branch, so it would be quite interesting to see you review it if you do in your NJT video
When you realize he actually did the Atlantic City Line and Raritan Valley Line
Awesome Sharing 👍♐
When people who built houses over the right-of-way decide to go into NIMBY mode, we should tell them "you should have thought of that before you put your back yard on property that isn't yours". Or did some idiot or crook (or both) in state management actually sell it lawfully to the developers?
Do more videos like this
large w video thanks boss
Can someone please tell me what app he is using, showing all the different rail lines in the state abandoned or not, and what company they belonged to. I would have ages of fun with that.
Rail Guide. It's available on the Google Play Store.
@@Pensyfan19 thank you, love your content.
is this branch timed to meet the lo cross long island sound ferries
What metro North needs to do is look at some overseas stations in UK and Germany Dresden VVO RMV Frankfurt am Main to see if you can Actually integrate a restaurant which was actually the original station and new platform although the platform height should be 121cm 48 in To match the other platforms on the electrified portion and Waterbury. Ideal train is a Flirt Dual Mode like a UK class 755 flirt Electric mode until the Junction with Waterbury Branch then Diesel from there to Waterbury. The worst case scenario is that the electrical system has failed and must run diesel all the way to grand central terminal like a Brookville locomotive in rare situations. Between Waterbury and Hartford why not put Light rail tracks On the existing right of way for the busses then operated like like Seattle Transit tunnel when it had Buses and Trams running through there. On the Busway it would go something like this bus gets there then the tram then the bus
if it dose get coverted in should get t extensions one south to at least the long island ferry pier and the to Bridgeport university via both a station linked to both the stadium and ampetheater. and north from waterbury staion t via waterbury green and then north along hill strret to the waterbury mall or east to both the cherry valley mall an, waterbury hospital and a slight bit north to the waterbury stadium whose paringlot would get pronably both the maitenece center and a new bus intherchagre
"Upstate?"
I wanna take this train to work in Bridgeport but the time table doesn’t work for me :’(
the line should loop the trains so what gose up the valle to Waterbury comes back to Bridgeport vie Danbury and stamford and if the ferries come back time them ti meet the ceoss sound ferries,
Alas, the amount of new ROW that would require makes it an utter fantasy.
@@MosheFeder what new roght of way ther is already a frieght line betwen danbiry and waterbury might need awkardly placed or expensive to buils new swishes.
Where did you get the ridership info?
That chart was based on 2018 figures in the Trans Regional Express proposal, so it may not be entirely accurate to today's standards, but still shows a general trend when compared to other branch lines.
@@Pensyfan19 Thanks
Fix the Atlantic Branch!
Will You Do Every Commuter Rail Agency Eventually?
Only those with 4 or more branch lines. The episode for SEPTA will likely be released next month.
Way, (wei?) too much $ to do anything more than to administer oxygen to these lines.
(All the taxpayers are moving out.)
I like they way your voice sounds at 0.75 playback speed.🤠
ACL Moment
The line probably doesn't have enough traffic or even potential to justify two tracks. Furthermore most traffic is in the demand direction, folks commuting into NYC during rush hour and return later that day. I would be much cheaper to run a bus in the reverse direction and I bet everybody would have a seat. It would be better if this could be a through service to GC. There aren't too many alternatives for the rolling stock, the old Budd cars are 70 years old and Budd is out of business and nobody makes a railcar to FRA standards nor is anybody going to make one since the potential market is so small. Since there is no freight traffic on this line, they could use the diesel tram cars that NJ uses on its Camden/Trenton line. Not enough trains to justify electrification. I am a transit and train advocate but you have to be real, commuter lines are big time money losers even when the have good ridership, simply the fares are too low and the expenses too high. Locomotive engineers make more than most airline pilots and have a steadier job with a better benefit history (airlines go bankrupt and cancel their retirement, the railroad plan is federal and you don't want to hear of their not paying, everything would close immediately). governments have a lot of differing responsibilities and have to allocate available funds generally going to whoever screams the loudest. Nobody really cries for 'rich' suburban commuters.
@henryyostman5740 - I don't think there's much commuting to and from NYC taking place on the Waterbury Branch. The trip is just way too long. Not many people want to spend five hours on the train every weekday. That's right, it takes 2½ hours or more to get from someplace like Naugatuck to GCT. And then you still aren’t at your office! I think you'd have to somehow get that down to 90 minutes max before many people would do it. If that's even theoretically possible, it couldn’t be done at an affordable cost.
A much better prospect to increase ridership would be service to Hartford. It's a much shorter trip and I think people who currently make that commute by car would welcome the alternative. It wouldn’t be long before the whole Naugatuck Valley became more appealing as a Hartford suburb. Higher service frequency might also increase its appeal for people who want to commute to Bridgeport.
In the long run, one-seat service from GCT via Waterbury to Hartford and back might actually allow the branch to finally pay its way.
This is a great idea for a video channel. Your narration isn't so great. Good modulation, but you speak too fast. 👍.