LISAN Al-GAHIB!!! LOL! He's bad*ss, but also, TOTALLY and OBVIOUSLY the bad guy, right? Other people aren't clocking this? We got TONS of new feature films reactions dropping soon! Check our new MMM and our ALIEN (1979) reaction by supporting the channel and get tons of extras on www.patreon.com/SeanTanktop !!
Paul is a fascinating character because in the short term he's basically, like, the WORST GUY WHO HAS EVER LIVED (well, for *now*), but in the long term he's assuring the survival of humanity. He's basically stopped experiencing time in a linear way and is seeing forwards and backwards, and has come to the determination that "Whoops, the only way to save the species is to do a galaxy-wide Hitler for a few thousand years or we'll go extinct a million generations from now" But yeah in normal human terms Paul Atreides is one of the absolute worst monsters in any media ever, he makes Darth Vader and Palpatine look like humanitarians
@@SeanTanktop Yeah, 100%, the reactions were WILD I've seen folks get excited about the "THE HOLY WAR BEGINS" line which, like don't get excited about that, why are you excited about that? All of the nuance comes from Paul's internal monologue about his motivations, but in the context of the movie where we're not privy to that the motherfucker just drinks some blue raspberry Koolaid and turns into psychic intergalactic Genghis Khan. It's incredibly compelling film, but no one should be cheering at Stilgar's final, frenzied "LISAN AL GAIB" as he goes off to murder a billion people I do think that it means that Villeneuve did his job right, though...Paul is such an effective demagogue that he even fools half the damned audience.
To answer Morgan's question of why didn't Paul just nuke everyone, in the books it is pointed that the noble houses have a treaty the prohibits them from using nukes against each other (against human targets). Using the nukes directly on the Emperor and/or the Harkonnen would have two main consequences: 1) Paul would loose all the legitimacy of being the new Duke, as House Atreides would be like considered a pariah / war criminals; and 2) Retaliation, as all the other noble houses also have their own atomic arsenal and would be justified / required to retaliate. In the book, Paul is confronted about using the nukes against the city, and his response is that he did not use them on the *city*, but rather on the *wall* (mountains) around the city. 😄
Paul isn’t evil. He is fulfilling a role he was designed for unwillingly. He really doesn’t have choices. Stilgar was more correct in his assessment than we realize at this point. This was a small reveal in Frank Herbert’s last book in the Dune series, Chapterhouse Dune (seeing the elderly couple, likely very highly evolved Facedancers curating mankind). The miraculous coincidences that helped Paul on Dune was likely staged to fulfill his role.
Yeah I hate this, "Paul is Evil Narrative". If he was Evil he would have absolutely No Remorse or Doubts about Using people to do what he needs instead he fights it every step of the way. Later in the Series the True Messiah shows up and he ends up being a monster ( the Worm Emperor) for like 50,000 years killing Millions of people for the Greater Good of the Human Empire , Hating that he has to do it but being Able to read the Future at will and seeing the destruction of all humanity if he doesn't. Being the leader of all humanity means you have to make some hard decisions.
Yeah. It's kind of a literary liberty Herbert takes in fashioning Paul (and Leto II later). Paul has larger things to worry about, beyond even the devastating casualties of the Holy War he's about to unleash. Kind of a moral cop-out in the first two books. On Planetary scale of reference, Paul is pretty evil, ready to unleash what he's know all along will happen. But in the grand Cosmic scheme, he is kind of a Hero.
I love Jessica! The best character in my opinion. Her defiance literally changed the entire universe. Sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse.
Paul Atreides was a hero...Paul Muad'Dib is no hero at all, and in fact becomes a tyrant, who later regrets what he has done. His war leads to the death of approximately 60 billion people, the sterilization of some 90 planets, and the elimination of roughly 40 religions. His prescience shows him mankind's future, but he lacks the will to give up his humanity for the golden path. His son had no such qualms, and becomes an even greater tyrant in order to ensure humanity's continued existence.
I love that people think they are so smart pointing out that Paul is no hero (did they read 2/5 books) holy shit people are acting like they are the smartest people in the world
One thing I like about this adaptation is the indication that the Atreides and Harkonnens are similar BEFORE Paul comes on to the scene is the gladitorial scene. We know from the first film that Paul's grandfather was a bullfighter. Feyd, in his fight, has a bunch of helpers to take down the prisoners using sci-fi banderillos, like peons help a matador. He'll, their helmets are even shaped like bull-heads!
That’s a false narrative and a recent one. Herbert had parts of Dune Messiah and Children Of Dune written down before the first novel was even completed. He knew what Paul’s character arc would be during the writing of Dune. From the start, he wanted readers of Book 1 to fall under Paul’s spell as the Fremen did, viewing Paul as a charismatic, traditional type of hero. In Book 2, he would show why that was a mistake. Nerd Cookies provided the proof: m.ua-cam.com/video/zAvkmSslvQ0/v-deo.html&pp=ygUZbmVyZCBjb29raWVzIGR1bmUgbWVzc2lhaA%3D%3D
it should be completely clear in this adaption, it's the entire reason Villeneuve completely rewrote Chani and very much starting with the opening of the first film takes her perspective and ends this one with her perspective as well
Paul isn’t a hero, but he isn’t Darth Vader either. He is a powerful ruler, who once ruling, is humbled to know that he is as much adrift in events as any of us. He didn’t control what happened after he gained power. Although, the movie makes it seem like he does, the book says otherwise.
@@richlisola1yeah once I read Dune Messiah I didn’t understand why people were saying he’s a big bad guy or a traditional villain. The book clearly lays out how trapped he feels by his position, and how he regrets almost everything that’s happened but can’t see a way out.
The movie takes place over a few months. In the books it takes several years. Alia is born and Paul has a son, but Denis decided not to deal with the kids.
@@onedudeJG If they even HAVE kids... Denis changed the story so much just so Chani wouldn't be who she really is in the books. I see no possible way of her coming back and having kids with Paul. It'd be the ultimate 180 and misdirection of who Denis tried to make her out to be in part 2.
Paul drinking the water gave him the power to see all possible futures by giving him knowledge of the past. It's a trap though because it forced Paul to make hard choices to avoid the worst endings. Marrying the princess and becoming Emperor was the only path they could survive, but it would also start a holy war across the universe.
@@kaleiohulee6693 If Paul had been killed by Feyd, the holy war still would have happened. The momentum had already begun. The many fanatics among the Fremen would have made Paul a martyr to their cause. They would have started the jihad in his name. Paul, alive and well after the duel, would not be able to stop the religious zealotry of the Fremen anyway.
He was a reluctant messiah. He never wanted it to go the way it ended up going. Many factors forced him into it but once he was pushed into it he went all in on what had to be done...
I loved this adaptation but the one gripe I have as a book reader is the change to Alia in the books she's born years before the battle as a full Reverend Mother so basically an adult in an infants body and she's actually the one who kills the Baron not Paul with a Gom Jabbar at like 4 yrs old and in the book its described, "Mature far beyond her four years, Alia escapes during the final battle of Arrakeen, but not before poisoning her grandfather, Baron Harkonnen, with a deadly gom jabbar. Afterwards, she wanders the battlefield of Arrakeen killing fallen Sardaukar and Harkonnen soldiers with a crysknife, earning her the holy epithet "St. Alia of the Knife."
I figure that having a 4-year-old running around stabbing people would have been a bit much for the uninitiated… To me the bigger loss to *this* story is that they cut out Paul and Chani’s first child (Leto II the Elder) entirely. To me, the loss of Sietch Tabr on its own didn’t seem like enough of a motivator for Paul to set aside his fears of the galaxy-spanning war his premonitions warned him about and head south. Losing a *child* to a senseless act of Harkonnen savagery, though? Yeah, at that point I could see him being absolutely DONE with trying to stave off the inevitable and seeking the justice that every cell of his body would be demanding. Having and losing a child would have made the bond between him and Chani seem that much more solid, and make their parting of ways at the end that much more of a gutpunch. As it is, their relationship almost comes off as a summer fling when it was so much more than that.
For a little clarity: in the movies they didn’t do the couple years timeskip that they did in the books. If you notice, when irulan is narrating she dates her entry as the same year as the events of the first book, 10191. If they did the time skip, Paul’s sister would’ve already been around 2 years old since Jessica was pregnant in the first movie.
I get it probably would’ve been a hard sell for general audiences, but damn it I wanted to see 2 year old Alia talking, making snide jokes, and _leading_ fremen on the battlefield killing soldiers! I saw someone say that in Dune lore, fremen have actually learned how to orgasm without…releasing I reread the portion of the book this movie basically covers before watching it, I don’t think they cut much of Feyd. Admittedly I haven’t reread the portion the first movie covered since the first movie, so I might be forgetting an earlier introduction, but I’m pretty sure the majority of Feyd’s material is in this.
wtf?? serious? I recently got the dune book collection and finished the first book and I was thinking about it, like, what the Fremen people did in their reactions and even more so in the scene where Paul and Chani are panting lol 🤨🫦
All the Great Houses have a Great Convention, essentially a code of laws that aren't to be broken. One of these is that human life, above all, is to be preserved. This even means in war. It's why assassins and plots are used instead of full-scale warfare. (Of course, this changes with Muadib's Jihad). One of the most unbreakable laws is the use of Atomics against humans. Any House that would dare to do so would risk their annihilation. It would mean that the other Houses would pretty much turn on them immediately. So, TECHNICALLY, because Paul had them used on the shield wall (a natural feature of the planet) rather than people.. well. It's TECHNICALLY not breaking the Convention.
It hasn't been several years for gurney. its been a few months. Jessica still hasn't had her baby by the end of the movie. So the timeline of the movie is less than nine months
Every advanced review I read from every critic I respect made reference to this film being "a _generational_ sci-fi epic." I saw it opening night in IMAX, and I. Was. *Floored.* I'll take that experience to the grave.
My friend and I both agreed that the film ending with Chani really drove the point home at how far Paul had fallen. This film has such a great performances from Timothee and Zendaya I’m surprised more people don’t talk about them.
It never gets old to me how Sean Segways into the movie or show we’re watching as if he was on the radio and we didn’t click on a video knowing exactly what we were watching 😅 it’s charming lmao
Calling him a bad guy saddens me. The fact is, he knows what he must do for his family to live, is one thing. Thinking he is happy about it, or finds pleasure in it is another. If you can't tell from the despair on his face when he says "lead them to paradise" then I give up. He won his war at the cost of the millions of lives he saw dying, as well as Chani leaving. He is a lost man, tied to this power...
I hate to be that guy but I really get the vibe that they wanna show how progressive they are so bad that they can’t help but watch the movie through their own personal and modern views and assume things through that lens
Well, supposedly, in ASOIF books when Jon comes back, he is gonna be somewhat like that too, cuz each time one comes back to life, one loses some humanity..
NICE! Great movie, great sequel A third film, DUNE MESSIAH, is in development for December 2026. A DUNE TV series, DUNE PROPHECY, will be released on HBO November 2024.
From what i heard, Nukes are banned in a geneva convention type thing and the penalty is the annihalation of the entire house. Paul did a loophole where he argues 'i shot at the Mountain, not at you' so thats why all the houses have a stockpile but they can attack each other with it
I literally cried watching this movie, not because of the story (even though it is great). I cried because of how good and in awe i was of the movie. Cried in two points of the movie. DEFINITELY will rewatch it when there’s a rerun on IMAX.
The original Bene Gesserit breeding plan was for the daughter of Leto and Jessica to breed with Feyd Ruatha. THEIR child was to be the Kwisatz Haderach. I don't believe the movie covers that, but the book does. Jessica bore the Duke a son against orders because he needed an heir.
What’s great about Paul’s character is that you are left asking, if the prophecy was fake, why did it all come true. And, in order to save the Freeman, he knew that he must become the one thing he never wanted to be… it comes off differently in the books. But it was still well done.
People looking at these as two seperte movies is kinda silly to me. Part 1 was kind of a slog because the needed to set the table for this bad boi. Most people who didn't like the first one was because it was dense and kinda slow to establish everything for this one
It's actually shocking how many people make excuses for Paul not being evil. The ridiculous argument says that "he didn't have a choice". Motherfucker if the choice is everyone you love dies or BILLIONS die you CHOOSE the former unless you're an evil fuck. It doesn't matter that he was basically checkmated into those two choices. He can be evil and a victim.
FWIW when there is a mix of those who have seen and those that have not seen a movie, I find reaction videos much more enjoyable when those who have seen the movie exercise restraint in their comments. The value of the video is in the reaction of those who have not seen the movie. Let us focus on them.
The way I've always seen it when Paul drinks the water of life he dies and awakes the Messiah, I wouldn't say if he's good or evil he's simply passed that and is something else he doesn't care for good or evil only what is nessacery, I wonder how much the "Golden Path" will be brought into the 3rd part
The AoT meme was spot on, there's tons of threads on the similarities between Paul Atreides and Eren Yeager and it's heavily theorized that Isayama based alot of the story and character on him. Spoilers for AoT.. -Both start as naive young kids with supernatural powers forced upon them by their parents. -Both lose a parent they loved in a sudden attack by enemy forces. -Both have the power to see the past and future and guide their way through it; they know what's going to happen and are disgusted by it, but not by "how" it's going to happen. -Both of them have a cult-like following where the followers think of them as religious figures. -Both of them destroy the enemies that were responsible for their parents' death in the first act. -Both end up becoming villainous figures hell-bent on destroying the world with an unstoppable army. -Both of their friends end up hating them because of the path they took. -Both have a loving and devoted female warrior by their side but can’t be with her.
The sandworms can't survive water, and create spice. The Fremen can't have both their green paradise and have control of spice. I think Paul knows this - Jessica certainly does - so they've trapped the Fremen in their own fanaticism, which was in turn instilled by past Bene Gesserit...
Since I first saw Dune 2, I thought of that Life of Brian scene and was a bit disappointed no other reactor even referenced it. You did not disappoint, thank you for that! ❤
God i love this movie, brought me back to being a little kid obsessing over space, consuming space media like mass effect and reading the dune books. Space man, just space. Yall should check out The Expanse if yall really fucked with this, less weird as dune but still a political thriller in space, would make a good reaction show.
24:10 It hasn't actually been several years, it was in the books, but in this movie the time frame is compressed, which is made clear by the fact that his sister hasn't been born yet at the end of the movie, so the time frame for this movie is less than 9 months, while by that point in the books, Alia is like 2-3 years old (I don't remember exactly)
Per Dune, Atomic weapons cannot be used to directly kill humans by treaty among all the houses. If done all the houses would unite to destroy the violator. Paul knew this & used his atomics not directly against humans, but used to remove a natural obstacle in his way (part of the Shield Wall, a natural mountain range that protects the city.
Ive also only seen the 2 new Movies , personally I would describe him as tragic, all the paths he wants to take have been laid and lead him down this "prophecy". He never wanted to lead and is now tasked to navigate the whole of humanity down a ever changing path, Manipulating his sorroundings to get to the outcome in his mind. Its Ruthless and to me it does not seem like he enjoys it.
Years hadnt passed, it was all during the course of Jessica's pregnancy in this movie... The books are a bit different of course since St Alia of the Knife existed and was a toddler by the events of the end of the movie, but they condensed the timeline considerably for the movie so she wasnt born yet.
I read it as the ships all have shielding that would protect them from nuclear battery, you can see the emperor's shiny bean ships shield deflecting the blast from when Paul nukes the shield wall behind them
Not grayscale, infrared. Grayscale just removes colours, but everything stays tonally balanced. Infrared looks way different, making some darker tones turn bright white (like the Baron's and the Sisters robes), etc. It makes the whole aesthetic way more surreal, which is fitting of Geidi Prime. Also, Paul is neither a hero or a villain, he's a tragic character trapped by his visions of the future, trapped in this impossible situation with no possible "good" outcome for everyone (and in a sense, this is much closer to reality). The Holy War he foresaw and wanted to avoid was the "lesser evil" path to take, he literally saw NO better future, and so he chooses this path, but it is a disheartening choice. This is why his words to Stilgar, "Take them to paradise", sound so *utterly* defeated. The Holy War will happen no matter what, and even with ALL the power he has, he is powerless to do anything. That must be soul-crushing. He's still going to try and lessen the impact of it, but he still needs to live with that fact. This human side of him is what makes him a relatable and redeemable character to readers/watchers, even if he's essentially become a tyrant to the known universe... This humanity, however, is an "hindrance" his son won't have, going into Children of Dune/God Emperor of Dune.
i pray they get to see it in IMAX one day....i saw it 3 times in IMAX and it was an experience every single time! also this lady is so HILARIOUS, she came in with so many LMAO hitters!
Oh fuck! I didn't expect this. LMAO and exactly Sean, people still don't get Paul's arc. This book series is so freaky and I love it. I feel like Denis Villeneuve's Quebecois weirdness (affectionate) really captures that but keeps it interesting.
Great reacttion! Like SeanTT I saw this three times in IMAX and it was amazing everytime. So many insightful comments from Morgan on this, and as you pointed out, she *gets* that the change and all that follows is *not good* and of course the point Herbert was trying to make. So (sadly) appropriate the "Make Arrakis Great Again" line. I will be so happy when we can move past the orange imbecil. Cheers!
In the book sequel that Villanue intends to adapt for the 3rd film, Paul has a line directly comparing himself to Hitler. Wonder if they will keep that in the film because as Sean says alot of people seemed to have missed the point of the tragedy of Paul's turn and Ascension.
yhea but that line is pretty stupid, it’s very “erm im the bad guy” which is especially silly given the larger context of the narrative, for one the idea that paul would use hitler as a example and not a in universe person like raban, is goofy, but also, frank writes paul to be to sympathetic, he tries to retcon it in the sequel dune messhia but by god emperor he retroactively makes paul more sympathetic again, like i think most people understand the idea that worshiping someone super hard is generally a bad idea, they just don’t blame paul for that, in franks own words “he’s revered for all the right reasons, he’s smart, competent and kind…” ultimately you can’t make a character that is good intentioned, very capable, and put them in a impossible situation and when things don’t turn out perfectly expect the audience take away to be, “wow that guy is evil”, paul os not hitler, it’s a silly comparison, but also using real people in general in this setting is strange lol i think they bring up van go in one of the books and it’s really odd as well.
As always, I come across your reaction and I'm glad you were able to appreciate this masterpiece by Denis Villeneuve and whose Dune Work by Frank Herbert can directly and completely influence STAR WARS (almost a plagiarism Because Dune is from 1965, in that Lucas and co. did with Herbert's work, But nowadays I'm fine with it because it shows that Dune influences pop culture in a very comprehensive way.) GAME OF THRONES (it's pure Dune juice, be it the palace intrigues, religion and characters, even Martin's writing is very reminiscent of Herbert's), MATRIX and obviously AVATAR. the enthusiasm and insights were wonderful... In addition to having a perfect edition combined with a great humor
@@SeanTanktop I'm the one who's grateful for the wonderful reaction videos that you've been making for years and when I saw that you finally made Dune (it means a lot, because I've loved the books since I was 20 and they changed my life a lot), I just say congratulations.
I'm kinda sad people don't really get Shani's reaction. It's not just "oh no, my boyfriend chose another chick", it's the concretisation of what he always told her we wouldn't do : He used her culture, and weaponised it to seize the throne of the whole galaxy, then sent almost every fremen, her family, her people, to die in a freaking holy war in his name just for the sake of power. He just stole her land, her people, and lied to her all the way through. That's why she's pissed.
and that is why she is also problematic and idiotic, because its not that simple. the fremen were going to eventually find themselves in a full-scale war regardless, they would've died in bigger numbers and lost everything without him. paul is no hero but he is also not a true villain, like he says he sees no other way, if there was a way to solve this peacefully he would take it and the houses are opposing because they see an opening for themselves to seek power making it clear that the fremen would be always invaded and constantly at war with all the other houses and they would lose.
@@MegasCaesar It's not idiotic. The Fremen going this road was an inevitability, sure... Dosen't mean it doesn't suck that the man you love, who PROMISED to not destroy your entire culture, destroyed your entire culture. It's not because something is ultimately a given that you have to be ok with your loved one triggering the whole thing rather than trying not to be a part of it.
@@gerardlacroix6015 how is he destroying their culture? He will make their culture the most dominant in the universe. If Paul doesn't get involved do u really believe the Fremen would be better off? He is their best hope of a better future, Chani's arrogance and lack of faith in him(not the lisan al gaib but Paul the man she loves) is the problem here. Again as I was saying Paul is as much a victim of the Fremens beliefs as their are, he also has no choice and control over the rampant fanaticism and the brutal oppression they have endured that has radicalized them even more and the oppression that they will always be subjected to as long as the whole universe needs that spice.
@@MegasCaesar You're missing it here. Dune Messiah was written for someone like you. It starts with an interview with an imprisoned historian who dared to 'document muah'dib's exploits' and SPECIFICALLY highlights how badly he has damaged or completely erased most of the Fremen culture. Such people are locked up for daring to question Paul's rule no matter how horrific things get. The Fremen culture doesn't dominate the universe bud, PAUL does. That's important. You're also falling into another trap about Paul that so many people seem to, which is again why Herbert wrote Dune Messiah, to try to undo the misunderstandings of Dune. The trap being that you are accepting everything that Paul is told through his visions and his prescience as 100% infallibly true. I see very few people question this, "What if Paul is wrong, being mislead, is misinterpreting his foresight, or is simply a liar and far more selfish than he has let on?" Chani is a viewpoint of skepticism that is needed to contrast against the total unquestioning belief of everyone else around her. The only guarantee we have that Paul's way is the only way is Paul himself. It's curcular logic, Paul is right because Paul said he is right. The fact you call Chani lacking faith and arrogant is pretty hilarious in this context. You're not meant to join in with the war council in cheering Paul on his warpath 😄, no matter how awesome he is.
Yeah, you can see her manner become increasingly tense the further along the final act goes, she is already a knife's edge away from turmoil and that final gambit from Paul is just the last straw. Personally i thought it was very clearly done and obvious but I can't pretend everyone sees something the way I did, but it is kinda sad more people don't pick up on that, as it;s masterclass directing and acting from Denis and Zendaya. You can even see how conflicted she is about it when Paul is seemingly losing and about to die, it's more than just a petty boyfriend betrayal lol.
Paul more off an antihero than a hero but loved both films even if it bit different from the books because chani in the books is pauls concubine just like lady Jessica was the concubine to his father Jessica tells chani that “they will not see her as his wife unlike us concubines will be remembered as his wife’s” and chani in the books supports Paul and Jessica fully compared in the movie which I think brought a different prospective to show that he is an antihero not the hero.
I liked the reaction. A little too much narration from the dude who’s seen it before but I ain’t mad atcha. I’m the same way with newbie’s. This is my LOTR of sci-fi which is a major compliment in my opinion. ✌️
How does Denis Villenueve's Top 5 compare with Christopher Nolan's?! With Dune 2 grossing $712m worldwide, confident that if Dune 3 by Villeneuve is on par with Dune 2, it could have a legit shot @$1bn worldwide which would be crazy for a Dune movie!
24:09 Its suppose to be but It cant be years though because Alia isnt even born yet they compressed the timeline by years which ties into my other comment.
His abilities are real; the religion built around him was implanted in Fremen culture by the Bene Gesserit specifically to be exploited by them later - it’s not real.
The super powers aren't part of the prophecy per se though. They are a bonus. It's still a scam. All the prophecy's events were set up LONG in advance for whoever the benne gesserit decided to use as a messiah figure. It's just that their plan backfired when Paul was born instead of another girl.
@Musabre their whole plan was to bring someone who had special powers. They just thought they could control him. Like are dudes like Joel Osteen scammers definitely but so is the whole idea of religion. In dune however the messiah actually has powers and isbt a charlatan. His motives and if he's right and wrong are different questions.
Whewwww. The editing in all of the quips… my word. Really takes away from the watchalong experience. You don’t have to do that. lol. You SHOULDNT do that more like.
Why do all the Americans make the same joke as the uber at the end? It's amazing how you all think the same "joke" losing the concept that she is now totally alone
Sean has seen this 3 times and Morgan was still correct on a first time viewing and he wasn't 🤣 The Harkonnen soldier was shot by another Harkonnen soldier so it was indeed a oopsie...
LISAN Al-GAHIB!!! LOL! He's bad*ss, but also, TOTALLY and OBVIOUSLY the bad guy, right? Other people aren't clocking this? We got TONS of new feature films reactions dropping soon! Check our new MMM and our ALIEN (1979) reaction by supporting the channel and get tons of extras on www.patreon.com/SeanTanktop !!
I believe the author of the books made it clear that Paul was never meant to be a hero
Paul is a fascinating character because in the short term he's basically, like, the WORST GUY WHO HAS EVER LIVED (well, for *now*), but in the long term he's assuring the survival of humanity. He's basically stopped experiencing time in a linear way and is seeing forwards and backwards, and has come to the determination that "Whoops, the only way to save the species is to do a galaxy-wide Hitler for a few thousand years or we'll go extinct a million generations from now"
But yeah in normal human terms Paul Atreides is one of the absolute worst monsters in any media ever, he makes Darth Vader and Palpatine look like humanitarians
don't tell that to 90% of the reactor community, lol
@@SeanTanktop Yeah, 100%, the reactions were WILD
I've seen folks get excited about the "THE HOLY WAR BEGINS" line which, like
don't get excited about that, why are you excited about that?
All of the nuance comes from Paul's internal monologue about his motivations, but in the context of the movie where we're not privy to that the motherfucker just drinks some blue raspberry Koolaid and turns into psychic intergalactic Genghis Khan.
It's incredibly compelling film, but no one should be cheering at Stilgar's final, frenzied "LISAN AL GAIB" as he goes off to murder a billion people
I do think that it means that Villeneuve did his job right, though...Paul is such an effective demagogue that he even fools half the damned audience.
@SeanTanktop Sean I'm going to have to correct you the most fuckable popcorn bucket is the deadpool and wolverine one actually 😅
Paul yelling "SILENCE" hit like cannonfire in the IMAX theater
Abomination.....
It was so good!! Gave me chills
To answer Morgan's question of why didn't Paul just nuke everyone, in the books it is pointed that the noble houses have a treaty the prohibits them from using nukes against each other (against human targets). Using the nukes directly on the Emperor and/or the Harkonnen would have two main consequences: 1) Paul would loose all the legitimacy of being the new Duke, as House Atreides would be like considered a pariah / war criminals; and 2) Retaliation, as all the other noble houses also have their own atomic arsenal and would be justified / required to retaliate.
In the book, Paul is confronted about using the nukes against the city, and his response is that he did not use them on the *city*, but rather on the *wall* (mountains) around the city. 😄
Thanks for the info!
Ripley: “That’s fuqqin cute 👉☢️”
Paul isn’t evil. He is fulfilling a role he was designed for unwillingly. He really doesn’t have choices. Stilgar was more correct in his assessment than we realize at this point. This was a small reveal in Frank Herbert’s last book in the Dune series, Chapterhouse Dune (seeing the elderly couple, likely very highly evolved Facedancers curating mankind). The miraculous coincidences that helped Paul on Dune was likely staged to fulfill his role.
Yeah I hate this, "Paul is Evil Narrative". If he was Evil he would have absolutely No Remorse or Doubts about Using people to do what he needs instead he fights it every step of the way. Later in the Series the True Messiah shows up and he ends up being a monster ( the Worm Emperor) for like 50,000 years killing Millions of people for the Greater Good of the Human Empire , Hating that he has to do it but being Able to read the Future at will and seeing the destruction of all humanity if he doesn't. Being the leader of all humanity means you have to make some hard decisions.
Yeah. It's kind of a literary liberty Herbert takes in fashioning Paul (and Leto II later). Paul has larger things to worry about, beyond even the devastating casualties of the Holy War he's about to unleash. Kind of a moral cop-out in the first two books. On Planetary scale of reference, Paul is pretty evil, ready to unleash what he's know all along will happen. But in the grand Cosmic scheme, he is kind of a Hero.
Its clear that Paul isnt a hero but he's also not a villain which I love because thats how the world works
I love Jessica! The best character in my opinion. Her defiance literally changed the entire universe. Sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse.
She knew Leto's seed was worth it.
RIP
Paul Atreides was a hero...Paul Muad'Dib is no hero at all, and in fact becomes a tyrant, who later regrets what he has done. His war leads to the death of approximately 60 billion people, the sterilization of some 90 planets, and the elimination of roughly 40 religions. His prescience shows him mankind's future, but he lacks the will to give up his humanity for the golden path. His son had no such qualms, and becomes an even greater tyrant in order to ensure humanity's continued existence.
Good opening line. He’s truly gone once he drinks from Dr. Noodles juice
I love that people think they are so smart pointing out that Paul is no hero (did they read 2/5 books) holy shit people are acting like they are the smartest people in the world
This is personal my favorite Dune movie that I absolutely like most.
For me 10/10
totally!
One thing I like about this adaptation is the indication that the Atreides and Harkonnens are similar BEFORE Paul comes on to the scene is the gladitorial scene.
We know from the first film that Paul's grandfather was a bullfighter. Feyd, in his fight, has a bunch of helpers to take down the prisoners using sci-fi banderillos, like peons help a matador. He'll, their helmets are even shaped like bull-heads!
Frank Herbert had to write Dune Messiah to to drive the point home that Paul is not a hero. Now Villeneuve has to do the same 😂
That’s a false narrative and a recent one. Herbert had parts of Dune Messiah and Children Of Dune written down before the first novel was even completed. He knew what Paul’s character arc would be during the writing of Dune. From the start, he wanted readers of Book 1 to fall under Paul’s spell as the Fremen did, viewing Paul as a charismatic, traditional type of hero. In Book 2, he would show why that was a mistake.
Nerd Cookies provided the proof:
m.ua-cam.com/video/zAvkmSslvQ0/v-deo.html&pp=ygUZbmVyZCBjb29raWVzIGR1bmUgbWVzc2lhaA%3D%3D
it should be completely clear in this adaption, it's the entire reason Villeneuve completely rewrote Chani and very much starting with the opening of the first film takes her perspective and ends this one with her perspective as well
Paul isn’t a hero, but he isn’t Darth Vader either. He is a powerful ruler, who once ruling, is humbled to know that he is as much adrift in events as any of us.
He didn’t control what happened after he gained power. Although, the movie makes it seem like he does, the book says otherwise.
@@richlisola1yeah once I read Dune Messiah I didn’t understand why people were saying he’s a big bad guy or a traditional villain.
The book clearly lays out how trapped he feels by his position, and how he regrets almost everything that’s happened but can’t see a way out.
@@SunsetRogue THANK YOU.
The movie takes place over a few months. In the books it takes several years. Alia is born and Paul has a son, but Denis decided not to deal with the kids.
Save that for Messiah... into Children of Dune
its for the best
Yeah, I guess they didn't wanna tackle the infant genocidal maniac just yet.
@@onedudeJG If they even HAVE kids... Denis changed the story so much just so Chani wouldn't be who she really is in the books. I see no possible way of her coming back and having kids with Paul. It'd be the ultimate 180 and misdirection of who Denis tried to make her out to be in part 2.
@@gordonfreeman-g5wI mean he’s got Paul saying he sees the future where Chani comes around so I doubt he’s just gonna pull it out of nowhere
Paul drinking the water gave him the power to see all possible futures by giving him knowledge of the past. It's a trap though because it forced Paul to make hard choices to avoid the worst endings. Marrying the princess and becoming Emperor was the only path they could survive, but it would also start a holy war across the universe.
@@kaleiohulee6693 If Paul had been killed by Feyd, the holy war still would have happened. The momentum had already begun. The many fanatics among the Fremen would have made Paul a martyr to their cause. They would have started the jihad in his name. Paul, alive and well after the duel, would not be able to stop the religious zealotry of the Fremen anyway.
Exactly @@SunsetRogue
Yep
"The humiliation kink. It's everyone's undoing at the end of the day."
Many wise Morgan proverbs in this one.
Paul's approval rating as emperor quickly fell by 61 billion votes.
I didn't knew what the hell was Dune and I completely fell in love with the first movie. A masterpiece. Both.
Paul: *breathes*
Stilgor: LISAN AL-GAHIB!!
Who is Stilgor?
I saw it 3 times, twice in 70mm and once in Dolby.
10/10
He was a reluctant messiah. He never wanted it to go the way it ended up going. Many factors forced him into it but once he was pushed into it he went all in on what had to be done...
yep and gets shit or it bunch people who don't get what the alternative was which was a way worse.
I loved this adaptation but the one gripe I have as a book reader is the change to Alia in the books she's born years before the battle as a full Reverend Mother so basically an adult in an infants body and she's actually the one who kills the Baron not Paul with a Gom Jabbar at like 4 yrs old and in the book its described, "Mature far beyond her four years, Alia escapes during the final battle of Arrakeen, but not before poisoning her grandfather, Baron Harkonnen, with a deadly gom jabbar. Afterwards, she wanders the battlefield of Arrakeen killing fallen Sardaukar and Harkonnen soldiers with a crysknife, earning her the holy epithet "St. Alia of the Knife."
I figure that having a 4-year-old running around stabbing people would have been a bit much for the uninitiated…
To me the bigger loss to *this* story is that they cut out Paul and Chani’s first child (Leto II the Elder) entirely. To me, the loss of Sietch Tabr on its own didn’t seem like enough of a motivator for Paul to set aside his fears of the galaxy-spanning war his premonitions warned him about and head south. Losing a *child* to a senseless act of Harkonnen savagery, though? Yeah, at that point I could see him being absolutely DONE with trying to stave off the inevitable and seeking the justice that every cell of his body would be demanding. Having and losing a child would have made the bond between him and Chani seem that much more solid, and make their parting of ways at the end that much more of a gutpunch. As it is, their relationship almost comes off as a summer fling when it was so much more than that.
It’s actually painful listening to these people misunderstand everything. I can’t imagine watching a movie like this while being so dense.
@azserds glad someone noticed that too. They completely misunderstood the movie 😂
For a little clarity: in the movies they didn’t do the couple years timeskip that they did in the books. If you notice, when irulan is narrating she dates her entry as the same year as the events of the first book, 10191. If they did the time skip, Paul’s sister would’ve already been around 2 years old since Jessica was pregnant in the first movie.
Well yea…the movie picks up RIGHT after the first. They’re literally still carrying Jamis’s body💀
I get it probably would’ve been a hard sell for general audiences, but damn it I wanted to see 2 year old Alia talking, making snide jokes, and _leading_ fremen on the battlefield killing soldiers!
I saw someone say that in Dune lore, fremen have actually learned how to orgasm without…releasing
I reread the portion of the book this movie basically covers before watching it, I don’t think they cut much of Feyd. Admittedly I haven’t reread the portion the first movie covered since the first movie, so I might be forgetting an earlier introduction, but I’m pretty sure the majority of Feyd’s material is in this.
wtf?? serious? I recently got the dune book collection and finished the first book and I was thinking about it, like, what the Fremen people did in their reactions and even more so in the scene where Paul and Chani are panting lol 🤨🫦
I've seen people in real life who can orgasm without releasing haha
All the Great Houses have a Great Convention, essentially a code of laws that aren't to be broken. One of these is that human life, above all, is to be preserved. This even means in war. It's why assassins and plots are used instead of full-scale warfare. (Of course, this changes with Muadib's Jihad). One of the most unbreakable laws is the use of Atomics against humans. Any House that would dare to do so would risk their annihilation. It would mean that the other Houses would pretty much turn on them immediately. So, TECHNICALLY, because Paul had them used on the shield wall (a natural feature of the planet) rather than people.. well. It's TECHNICALLY not breaking the Convention.
The guys: "man this is epic"
Morgan: "cut up his stillsuits and key his worm"
It hasn't been several years for gurney. its been a few months. Jessica still hasn't had her baby by the end of the movie. So the timeline of the movie is less than nine months
ahhhh, shit. well that seems a lil weird then. like, why does it SEEEM like years tho. Maybe thats the old book knowledge conflating in my brain.
In the book it is years so yeah probably
Every advanced review I read from every critic I respect made reference to this film being "a _generational_ sci-fi epic."
I saw it opening night in IMAX, and I. Was. *Floored.* I'll take that experience to the grave.
I feel like he didn't need tears at all. Mom just did it to fit in with prophecy
Pretty sure in the book it’s that way. He’s already conscious but he waits until Chani cries on purpose
@@a.j.1819 ah so i guessed correct
Hell yeah! I want that 3 Ninjas Kick Back reaction now! 😂😂
My friend and I both agreed that the film ending with Chani really drove the point home at how far Paul had fallen. This film has such a great performances from Timothee and Zendaya I’m surprised more people don’t talk about them.
It never gets old to me how Sean Segways into the movie or show we’re watching as if he was on the radio and we didn’t click on a video knowing exactly what we were watching 😅 it’s charming lmao
Calling him a bad guy saddens me. The fact is, he knows what he must do for his family to live, is one thing. Thinking he is happy about it, or finds pleasure in it is another. If you can't tell from the despair on his face when he says "lead them to paradise" then I give up. He won his war at the cost of the millions of lives he saw dying, as well as Chani leaving. He is a lost man, tied to this power...
I hate to be that guy but I really get the vibe that they wanna show how progressive they are so bad that they can’t help but watch the movie through their own personal and modern views and assume things through that lens
Holy! Awesome pick, didn't expect this reaction at all :D
This is probably my favorite movie of the last decade.
Well, supposedly, in ASOIF books when Jon comes back, he is gonna be somewhat like that too, cuz each time one comes back to life, one loses some humanity..
NICE!
Great movie, great sequel
A third film, DUNE MESSIAH, is in development for December 2026.
A DUNE TV series, DUNE PROPHECY, will be released on HBO November 2024.
From what i heard, Nukes are banned in a geneva convention type thing and the penalty is the annihalation of the entire house. Paul did a loophole where he argues 'i shot at the Mountain, not at you' so thats why all the houses have a stockpile but they can attack each other with it
"put your right hand in the box" that's what you hear in Manchester at 3am on a Friday
I literally cried watching this movie, not because of the story (even though it is great). I cried because of how good and in awe i was of the movie. Cried in two points of the movie. DEFINITELY will rewatch it when there’s a rerun on IMAX.
Same, cried both times I went to see it in the cinema
The Baron's bath is a bath made with spices since it is a very beneficial drug for human health apart from the fact that it lengthens their life.
The original Bene Gesserit breeding plan was for the daughter of Leto and Jessica to breed with Feyd Ruatha. THEIR child was to be the Kwisatz Haderach. I don't believe the movie covers that, but the book does. Jessica bore the Duke a son against orders because he needed an heir.
What’s great about Paul’s character is that you are left asking, if the prophecy was fake, why did it all come true. And, in order to save the Freeman, he knew that he must become the one thing he never wanted to be… it comes off differently in the books. But it was still well done.
Paul became LISAN Al-GAHIB to save Morgan?!
Alright I'll leave.
spice withdrawal is fatal, and lots of people take it as it keeps you healthy and extends your lifespan. so destroying the spice would kill billions.
People looking at these as two seperte movies is kinda silly to me. Part 1 was kind of a slog because the needed to set the table for this bad boi. Most people who didn't like the first one was because it was dense and kinda slow to establish everything for this one
I for one (Sean) loved pt, but I knew this was a Fellowship thing. This was set up, nowhere near a conclusion.
It's actually shocking how many people make excuses for Paul not being evil. The ridiculous argument says that "he didn't have a choice". Motherfucker if the choice is everyone you love dies or BILLIONS die you CHOOSE the former unless you're an evil fuck. It doesn't matter that he was basically checkmated into those two choices. He can be evil and a victim.
20:12 He spent 4 months in Budapest, Hungary, training with an ex-Navy SEAL, in preparation for the role.
Paul is probably the less evil in all Dune evils ever 😂
FWIW when there is a mix of those who have seen and those that have not seen a movie, I find reaction videos much more enjoyable when those who have seen the movie exercise restraint in their comments. The value of the video is in the reaction of those who have not seen the movie. Let us focus on them.
one of the best sequels ever made for sure
The way I've always seen it when Paul drinks the water of life he dies and awakes the Messiah, I wouldn't say if he's good or evil he's simply passed that and is something else he doesn't care for good or evil only what is nessacery, I wonder how much the "Golden Path" will be brought into the 3rd part
The AoT meme was spot on, there's tons of threads on the similarities between Paul Atreides and Eren Yeager and it's heavily theorized that Isayama based alot of the story and character on him.
Spoilers for AoT..
-Both start as naive young kids with supernatural powers forced upon them by their parents.
-Both lose a parent they loved in a sudden attack by enemy forces.
-Both have the power to see the past and future and guide their way through it; they know what's going to happen and are disgusted by it, but not by "how" it's going to happen.
-Both of them have a cult-like following where the followers think of them as religious figures.
-Both of them destroy the enemies that were responsible for their parents' death in the first act.
-Both end up becoming villainous figures hell-bent on destroying the world with an unstoppable army.
-Both of their friends end up hating them because of the path they took.
-Both have a loving and devoted female warrior by their side but can’t be with her.
The sandworms can't survive water, and create spice. The Fremen can't have both their green paradise and have control of spice. I think Paul knows this - Jessica certainly does - so they've trapped the Fremen in their own fanaticism, which was in turn instilled by past Bene Gesserit...
Paul Atredies will save us all
Since I first saw Dune 2, I thought of that Life of Brian scene and was a bit disappointed no other reactor even referenced it. You did not disappoint, thank you for that! ❤
You guys...the comments in the reaction were next level. Just great!
God i love this movie, brought me back to being a little kid obsessing over space, consuming space media like mass effect and reading the dune books. Space man, just space. Yall should check out The Expanse if yall really fucked with this, less weird as dune but still a political thriller in space, would make a good reaction show.
24:10 It hasn't actually been several years, it was in the books, but in this movie the time frame is compressed, which is made clear by the fact that his sister hasn't been born yet at the end of the movie, so the time frame for this movie is less than 9 months, while by that point in the books, Alia is like 2-3 years old (I don't remember exactly)
“Silencing women…” Those women are the villains! I mean Paul before that too but the Bene Gesserit are the ancient baddies.
*becomes that
she kind of joking..) that what they do on this show is make silly comments during the movie
Per Dune, Atomic weapons cannot be used to directly kill humans by treaty among all the houses. If done all the houses would unite to destroy the violator. Paul knew this & used his atomics not directly against humans, but used to remove a natural obstacle in his way (part of the Shield Wall, a natural mountain range that protects the city.
The only qualifier for Dune part 1 is that you won’t be able to catch everything on your first viewing
Gremlins 2> Gremlins
Fight me
you've got a safe space here friend.
Ive also only seen the 2 new Movies , personally I would describe him as tragic, all the paths he wants to take have been laid and lead him down this "prophecy". He never wanted to lead and is now tasked to navigate the whole of humanity down a ever changing path, Manipulating his sorroundings to get to the outcome in his mind. Its Ruthless and to me it does not seem like he enjoys it.
Stellan be looking like the caterpillar from Alice in wonderland smoking that pipe 😂
Years hadnt passed, it was all during the course of Jessica's pregnancy in this movie... The books are a bit different of course since St Alia of the Knife existed and was a toddler by the events of the end of the movie, but they condensed the timeline considerably for the movie so she wasnt born yet.
I read it as the ships all have shielding that would protect them from nuclear battery, you can see the emperor's shiny bean ships shield deflecting the blast from when Paul nukes the shield wall behind them
The sleepers at the bar have awakened!
I saw this movie in theaters…. 11 times 😅
Yes! Hoped and waited for this reaction with some of my favorite reactors. Props on the Fiona Apple tank as well. Underrated artist.
Not grayscale, infrared. Grayscale just removes colours, but everything stays tonally balanced. Infrared looks way different, making some darker tones turn bright white (like the Baron's and the Sisters robes), etc. It makes the whole aesthetic way more surreal, which is fitting of Geidi Prime.
Also, Paul is neither a hero or a villain, he's a tragic character trapped by his visions of the future, trapped in this impossible situation with no possible "good" outcome for everyone (and in a sense, this is much closer to reality). The Holy War he foresaw and wanted to avoid was the "lesser evil" path to take, he literally saw NO better future, and so he chooses this path, but it is a disheartening choice. This is why his words to Stilgar, "Take them to paradise", sound so *utterly* defeated. The Holy War will happen no matter what, and even with ALL the power he has, he is powerless to do anything. That must be soul-crushing. He's still going to try and lessen the impact of it, but he still needs to live with that fact. This human side of him is what makes him a relatable and redeemable character to readers/watchers, even if he's essentially become a tyrant to the known universe... This humanity, however, is an "hindrance" his son won't have, going into Children of Dune/God Emperor of Dune.
i pray they get to see it in IMAX one day....i saw it 3 times in IMAX and it was an experience every single time!
also this lady is so HILARIOUS, she came in with so many LMAO hitters!
Villeneuve has also expressed hope that other directors and writers will continue the series after Messiah.
Oh fuck! I didn't expect this. LMAO and exactly Sean, people still don't get Paul's arc. This book series is so freaky and I love it. I feel like Denis Villeneuve's Quebecois weirdness (affectionate) really captures that but keeps it interesting.
they show paul deciding to go south and drink the water of life after his vision of Chani's death if he stayed in the north and refused the godhead.
Forgive my ignorance here but what does AoT stand for?
In the book Paul and Jessica both told Chani the marriage was just political.
But instead the director wanted to create extra drama.
Will you guys be reacting to the HBO series Dune: Prophecy when it premiers later this year?
Rabban is a bad boss. Stilgar is my favorite.
I think the reason the harks skin is almost pure white is because of the black sun on there planet but I could be completely wrong
That was a real eclipse at the beginning. Cool tidbit.
Dune 2 was great and I cant wait to see Dune Messiah (Dune 3).
42:27 Hans Zimmer is a genius!
Great reacttion!
Like SeanTT I saw this three times in IMAX and it was amazing everytime.
So many insightful comments from Morgan on this, and as you pointed out, she *gets* that the change and all that follows is *not good* and of course the point Herbert was trying to make.
So (sadly) appropriate the "Make Arrakis Great Again" line. I will be so happy when we can move past the orange imbecil.
Cheers!
almost perfect; you guys also got that the emperor was probably miscast
In the book sequel that Villanue intends to adapt for the 3rd film, Paul has a line directly comparing himself to Hitler. Wonder if they will keep that in the film because as Sean says alot of people seemed to have missed the point of the tragedy of Paul's turn and Ascension.
yhea but that line is pretty stupid, it’s very “erm im the bad guy” which is especially silly given the larger context of the narrative, for one the idea that paul would use hitler as a example and not a in universe person like raban, is goofy, but also, frank writes paul to be to sympathetic, he tries to retcon it in the sequel dune messhia but by god emperor he retroactively makes paul more sympathetic again, like i think most people understand the idea that worshiping someone super hard is generally a bad idea, they just don’t blame paul for that, in franks own words “he’s revered for all the right reasons, he’s smart, competent and kind…” ultimately you can’t make a character that is good intentioned, very capable, and put them in a impossible situation and when things don’t turn out perfectly expect the audience take away to be, “wow that guy is evil”, paul os not hitler, it’s a silly comparison, but also using real people in general in this setting is strange lol i think they bring up van go in one of the books and it’s really odd as well.
As always, I come across your reaction and I'm glad you were able to appreciate this masterpiece by Denis Villeneuve and whose Dune Work by Frank Herbert can directly and completely influence STAR WARS
(almost a plagiarism Because Dune is from 1965, in that Lucas and co. did with Herbert's work, But nowadays I'm fine with it because it shows that Dune influences pop culture in a very comprehensive way.)
GAME OF THRONES (it's pure Dune juice, be it the palace intrigues, religion and characters, even Martin's writing is very reminiscent of Herbert's), MATRIX and obviously AVATAR. the enthusiasm and insights were wonderful...
In addition to having a perfect edition combined with a great humor
Thank you so much!!!
@@SeanTanktop I'm the one who's grateful for the wonderful reaction videos that you've been making for years and when I saw that you finally made Dune (it means a lot, because I've loved the books since I was 20 and they changed my life a lot), I just say congratulations.
I'm kinda sad people don't really get Shani's reaction.
It's not just "oh no, my boyfriend chose another chick", it's the concretisation of what he always told her we wouldn't do : He used her culture, and weaponised it to seize the throne of the whole galaxy, then sent almost every fremen, her family, her people, to die in a freaking holy war in his name just for the sake of power.
He just stole her land, her people, and lied to her all the way through.
That's why she's pissed.
and that is why she is also problematic and idiotic, because its not that simple. the fremen were going to eventually find themselves in a full-scale war regardless, they would've died in bigger numbers and lost everything without him. paul is no hero but he is also not a true villain, like he says he sees no other way, if there was a way to solve this peacefully he would take it and the houses are opposing because they see an opening for themselves to seek power making it clear that the fremen would be always invaded and constantly at war with all the other houses and they would lose.
@@MegasCaesar It's not idiotic. The Fremen going this road was an inevitability, sure... Dosen't mean it doesn't suck that the man you love, who PROMISED to not destroy your entire culture, destroyed your entire culture.
It's not because something is ultimately a given that you have to be ok with your loved one triggering the whole thing rather than trying not to be a part of it.
@@gerardlacroix6015 how is he destroying their culture? He will make their culture the most dominant in the universe. If Paul doesn't get involved do u really believe the Fremen would be better off? He is their best hope of a better future, Chani's arrogance and lack of faith in him(not the lisan al gaib but Paul the man she loves) is the problem here.
Again as I was saying Paul is as much a victim of the Fremens beliefs as their are, he also has no choice and control over the rampant fanaticism and the brutal oppression they have endured that has radicalized them even more and the oppression that they will always be subjected to as long as the whole universe needs that spice.
@@MegasCaesar You're missing it here. Dune Messiah was written for someone like you. It starts with an interview with an imprisoned historian who dared to 'document muah'dib's exploits' and SPECIFICALLY highlights how badly he has damaged or completely erased most of the Fremen culture. Such people are locked up for daring to question Paul's rule no matter how horrific things get. The Fremen culture doesn't dominate the universe bud, PAUL does. That's important.
You're also falling into another trap about Paul that so many people seem to, which is again why Herbert wrote Dune Messiah, to try to undo the misunderstandings of Dune.
The trap being that you are accepting everything that Paul is told through his visions and his prescience as 100% infallibly true. I see very few people question this, "What if Paul is wrong, being mislead, is misinterpreting his foresight, or is simply a liar and far more selfish than he has let on?"
Chani is a viewpoint of skepticism that is needed to contrast against the total unquestioning belief of everyone else around her. The only guarantee we have that Paul's way is the only way is Paul himself. It's curcular logic, Paul is right because Paul said he is right.
The fact you call Chani lacking faith and arrogant is pretty hilarious in this context. You're not meant to join in with the war council in cheering Paul on his warpath 😄, no matter how awesome he is.
Yeah, you can see her manner become increasingly tense the further along the final act goes, she is already a knife's edge away from turmoil and that final gambit from Paul is just the last straw. Personally i thought it was very clearly done and obvious but I can't pretend everyone sees something the way I did, but it is kinda sad more people don't pick up on that, as it;s masterclass directing and acting from Denis and Zendaya.
You can even see how conflicted she is about it when Paul is seemingly losing and about to die, it's more than just a petty boyfriend betrayal lol.
Paul turned into someone Jon Snow should be after his death
Incredible restraint on your part not to use The Voice to make everyone like and subscribe.
(shudders) ......abomination
Paul more off an antihero than a hero but loved both films even if it bit different from the books because chani in the books is pauls concubine just like lady Jessica was the concubine to his father Jessica tells chani that “they will not see her as his wife unlike us concubines will be remembered as his wife’s” and chani in the books supports Paul and Jessica fully compared in the movie which I think brought a different prospective to show that he is an antihero not the hero.
That literally the point of the Bene Gesserit Morgan. They play the very long con. 😟
Walter White: "Look at all he did for his family"
Paul is actually Eren Yeager
I liked the reaction. A little too much narration from the dude who’s seen it before but I ain’t mad atcha. I’m the same way with newbie’s. This is my LOTR of sci-fi which is a major compliment in my opinion. ✌️
How does Denis Villenueve's Top 5 compare with Christopher Nolan's?! With Dune 2 grossing $712m worldwide, confident that if Dune 3 by Villeneuve is on par with Dune 2, it could have a legit shot @$1bn worldwide which would be crazy for a Dune movie!
24:09 Its suppose to be but It cant be years though because Alia isnt even born yet they compressed the timeline by years which ties into my other comment.
Its not exactly a scam though he actually does have super powers etc
His abilities are real; the religion built around him was implanted in Fremen culture by the Bene Gesserit specifically to be exploited by them later - it’s not real.
The super powers aren't part of the prophecy per se though. They are a bonus. It's still a scam. All the prophecy's events were set up LONG in advance for whoever the benne gesserit decided to use as a messiah figure. It's just that their plan backfired when Paul was born instead of another girl.
@Musabre their whole plan was to bring someone who had special powers. They just thought they could control him. Like are dudes like Joel Osteen scammers definitely but so is the whole idea of religion. In dune however the messiah actually has powers and isbt a charlatan. His motives and if he's right and wrong are different questions.
Whewwww. The editing in all of the quips… my word. Really takes away from the watchalong experience. You don’t have to do that. lol. You SHOULDNT do that more like.
okay
Why do all the Americans make the same joke as the uber at the end? It's amazing how you all think the same "joke" losing the concept that she is now totally alone
So while they're able to shut off blood vessels to stop bleeding and stuff
Sean has seen this 3 times and Morgan was still correct on a first time viewing and he wasn't 🤣 The Harkonnen soldier was shot by another Harkonnen soldier so it was indeed a oopsie...
Yes, about as perfect as it can get. Dying for part 3!
Emperor Walken is Debate Biden
Fact.