If Your Snare Sounds Like This | Season Six, Episode 38
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- Part of trusting your ears involves recognizing certain sounds and being able to identify the cause. In this episode we’re addressing the three primary causes of a choked snare drum with demonstrations of each and the associated remedies.
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Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
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Toms: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Kick Drum: AKG D12VR sladl.ink/AKGD12VR
Snare: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
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Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra w/1960’s Ludwig Acrolite
Cymbals:
22” Jesse Simpson clone of old Zildjian A, 15" Zildjian Kerope Hihats
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G1 / Snare Side 300
Toms: N/A
Kick Drum: Evans UV EMAD/ EQ3 Reso
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
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Not gonna lie man, I love how that snare sounded with those super tight heads
Again, it's not that these are "bad sounds" but rather that there are some inherent sacrifices involved with each of these and there are some alternative choices that can be made without any sacrifice to tone or performance. It's important to understand how each of the causes demonstrated in this episode can manifest within a snare drum sound so that you can make intentional choices with your setup. Simply put, it's a good thing to know the "rules" before you start breaking them as an artistic choice.
I think that’s why he said what he did at 0:45.
It might sound good on its own but trust me in a mix on a recording it doesn't sound as good.
James Brown vibes.
@@danmagee5 depends on the genre. I play death metal so that high pitched cranked out tone is what's needed to cut through that mix. Now I'd never bring a snare like that to like a country gig I did once (don't ask) bc it wouldn't work. But hey that's how I see it
This video solved a longtime confusing problem for me. My reso head was way too high and because of all that "crank it up" videos i have seen, I've never held the reso head responsible. Thanks a lot 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Life long Drummer here. All this time I thought more wires, more snare. Didn’t realize I choking the reso head. Thanks for the info!!
I'm always entertained reading drummers post on the Internet that they "tighten the snare reso absolutely tabletop flat, tight as it can go - but Not Choked". Adding "...but not choked!" seems to be street cred code, like you have to add that part. I too learned from older drummers to "crank that thing", but these days I experiment a bit. ---- EDIT TO ADD: I just relaxed my wires based on this vid, and I will agree that it was an improvement.
I’ve been experimenting with drum line style tunings, and from what I can tell they tune super tight. And use things like Ambassadors on the snare side, and kevlar heads on the batter side. I can’t go that high with my typical head choices for a snare drum. When I try a new tuning, I make sure to record myself from a distance, so I can hear if the drum gets too tight and the sound doesn’t travel anymore. Recording yourself is such a powerful tool.
drum lines usually go for articulation (rudimental definition and such), not much for tone itself. since all the players need to listen to themselves, they need the heads to be as loud and cracky as possible without losing stroke definition. That's just how I perceive it to be, anyway.
Thanks for explaining these causes in such detail! Learned a lot and have new ideas what to try with tuning my snare.
Loving this videos! I have learned so much from this channel, I send all my drummer friends your way because the knowledge is insane!
I have 24 strand wires on my snare right now, the fact that wires are a form of dampening makes me really think and want to try 18-20 on my snare and see the difference. Thanks Cody!
Thanks for this! I love that sometimes I can finish your sentence. It makes me feel like I'm not an idiot.
You're answering many questions I had and clearing things up in my mind about these specific issues, thank you very much! As always, your content and approach are excellent!
You are one of my favourite channels on YT. The videos are very interesting, the audio and video quality is excellent and most importantly, you help drummers to achieve a better and more personal sound. Thanks for this one, especially because it's a very important topic among the drumming community.
Damn I've definitely been cranking my snare sides and muffling to get rid of those pesky overtones. Gonna do some experimenting. Great vid!
Thank you for acknowledging that a "choked" sound isn't bad. All my favorite snare sounds have had the life choked out of them. Every drum channel that is more "techy" oriented (tries to be more scientific and precise) tends to recommend tunings and techniques that simply don't sound as good to me as guys who simply crank the s*** out of the batter and snare side heads (especially the snare side). It seems to me like there is a right and wrong way to crank your snare heads and get a great sound, because no you *don't* need to muffle your snare just because you have a tabletop-tight snare side head. I know this for a fact, and yet when you demonstrate the "choked" snare side you get tons of ringing. Again, there must be a disconnect because plentyyyy of players simply crank both sides and they get a really sweet note with minimal muffling. Maybe we need to do more cross-talk as a community.
So much truth here - I remember a few years ago trying a worship snare drum prescription. ✌🏻✌🏻 Super tight bottom, 42 wires & feel good top. It’s really good at doing that one thing. Nothing wrong with that at all. So much more potential with experimenting. I can’t fathom how much less I would be if I just did that single tune to everything, every time. Thank you Sounds Like a Drum. I’m so glad this was one of the first shows I found early on. Experiment, experiment, experiment, experiment, experiment & experiment some more! 10 out of 10.
How insightful. It's almost like a natural compression as you move more into the "choke" zone. No wonder the blast-beaters out there love a high-tensioned snare drum. Incredibly responsive, but also consistent when mic'ed up.
Snare wire real estate!? I love that phrase, I'm a sixty year old drummer from Scotland and I've never heard that phrase before, I LOVE it just like I love your channel,so informative and educational,I've been playing for fifty years now I teach and you guys are giving me so much material, thank you so much , can't wait for the next one.
❤ From Scotland 🏴.
The Heff
Considering some beachfront property for my snare wires.
@@jonautry 😂😂😂
Oh my goodness. I believe that my snare wires may be too tight. Tomorrow, I'm going to take some time to fiddle around with the ol' Super Sensitive, and I think it may make a big difference.
As always, thanks, guys. Your videos are always helpful, but this one is going to make a real difference, I think. All hail, Cody and Ben!
Reference to the snare wires being too tight. Do you mean the Throw off is too tight? or are you referring to loosening the snare wires in the wiring cradles?
@@Chiroman527 Thanks for asking. I thought the throw-off was too tight because the snare wires rattled annoyingly if I tried to use the snare in throw-off mode. After watching this video, I did indeed loosen my snare wires the next day. It sounds as though you know how a Super Sensitive works, which is good. I loosened the snare wires (which, of course, you do by turning the tensioners clockwise) in throw-off until the wires no longer rattled. Great. But when I threw the snares back on, the sound was...let's say hideous. This confirmed for me that I need to take it to a drum tech to have it looked at.
I'm learning so much every time you put out a video. Thank you so much and keep 'em coming!
I've been waiting for a video like this for a while. Just knowing what it is that I'm hearing is a huge help!
This is all good information. Now how do you tell your drummer he needs to change his snare sound?
Love that you did this on the acrolite. Just picked up '78 acro and am getting to know it. Very helpful!
Excellent Vid i always had issues with option 3 and had to loosen the Reso head
Scientifically excellent video. Very informative and in a way training the ear what to look for. Thank you so much!
I want to try an Inde snare drum with the infinite snare beds, supposed to give more range on the snare side head.
I've been deaking with choking for a long time, mostly because of financial restrictions (not being able to buy more heads or snare wires as I probably should)... so I've come to the point where I use a Remo O-ring to kill the overtones and just get the punch I need. But i'm pretty sure the tensions rods in my snare are super tight to the point I'm worried the rods or even the hoop might be distorted or something.
Cory, referring to the Snare Wires being Too Tight. Do you mean , that the Throw off adjustment is too tight? I am struggling to get my DW Nickel over Brass 14 X 6.5 Snare to get to the sound - the sweet spot so to speak - without sounding Choked. AFter watching this, made me realize that I may over tightened the Snare side head (Evans 300 Clear) thereby ruining it. Im going to install a new Snare side head , and then try the various Batter heads I have been using, trying to get to That Sound.
I was referred to this video by a poster on Drum Forum. My post on the forum was about trying to get a sweet spot on my Maple Snare 14 X 5.5. In my zeal or pursuance for that, I may have over-tightened the Snare side head. Many drum tuning videos emphasize going "Table Top Tight" . What really is Table Top Tight? In my frustration, I keep changing the batter heads... Ambys, G12s coated, HD Dry, EC Reverse Dot. Each resulting in not getting there. After watching this, I think I will order a new Snare side clear head (Evans 300 clear), re-install the snare wires, and start form scratch. I qualify my comments by saying that I'm a recreational drummer, who resurrected playing in 2019 after a 50 Year Hiatus. Since the resurgence, I have come to learn vastly more about drum sounds, heads and Tuning that I ever did way back when. THX for the Videos Cory.
I actually always just did what the youtube guys told me without really questioning it---
Frick tuning the reso head up that much >->
Problem: always just did what the UA-cam guys told me
Solution: now doing what different UA-cam guys told me
I set out to diagnose my 6x14 Noble & Cooley alloy classic, and now it sounds terrible. 😂 Question, why does it seem that there are always two tension points, across from each other, that never quite seem to dial into the others? In this case, snare side, 10 lug, the two 90 degrees from snare wires. 🥴
You're having a hard time making that snare sound anything but good. Do this video with a snare from Temu.
Side note what were the sticks you're using in this video?
found them- not sure what size he is using but looks like ProMark Firegrain sticks (unsure if he using classic or new ones called firegrain "rebound" which are more bottom heavy and have different font style). comes in 5A , 5B, 2B, 7A, and marching snare sizing
#2 : the Steve Jordan crank it 'til it screams, "Neuschwanstein!"
All of this is true. I would also argue that the opposite can be an issue as well. In many stylistics scenarios if the snare is tuned way too floppy and loose. It can sound like absolute garbage in many situations. :-)
But our course! There’s also plenty of grey area, as the extremes aren’t the only options. The key here is to understand how these things function and the limitations they create if ignored. When you intentionally choke a drum for stylistic reasons, that’s an artistic choice. The more a player understands the functions and relationships of these components, the more capable they become when it comes to artistic sonic decisions. Cheers!
@@SoundsLikeADrum absolutely :-)
I would have liked for you to go over what you meant by "choked". I am a new drummer and have never taken lessons. So I am unfamiliar with many of the industry terms and how to apply them. I can go through the motions, but it would be nice to have an understanding of what I'm doing and why. I think I have been able to infer your meaning.
Great point!
And on the subject, what exactly is a “purple” guitar tone? 😂
Hey there! That’s actually why we demonstrated the sound of each potential cause and explained what’s happening along with the performance impact.
@@SoundsLikeADrumNot sure I got that. If I infer properly, "chocked" means not allowing either head to resonate?
@@lordraven2264”Choked,” like to strangle-not “chocked”. It’s analogous to choking someone, cutting off their airflow, resulting in reduced respiratory function. Here, choked would mean the harmonics are reduced and the output is changed in a reductive way. The sound examples should explain the rest.
I like bottom head super tight with snare medium lose and top head less tight then bottom
Is it possible for a snare basket being too tight it makes the snare go out of round?
I'm having an issue with my 5 1/2 by 14 metal snare. When I'm sitting on my kit, the snare sounds nice and fat. The Snare wire sound is great. However, when I'm at a distance of 5ft to 6ft, my snare sounds lifeless. What is too tight for the side head. I have my side head at 329.6 Hz "E4" and my Batter at 146.8 Hz "D3." Oh, I put a couple of moon gels on the Batter head because I was hearing a bit of ringing. My snare wires are somewhere in the middle, not too loose, not too tight. I have a metal snare. What adjustments would you recommend to correct my problem? My Batter is coated, and my side is a Remo Ambassador Hazy side.
It might be too loose 146 is pretty loose. Slowly bring it up until you get the sound you want
Try RESO 380 HZ - 400 HZ BATTER 280 HZ - 329 HZ Those are good common. ranges.
Semi-related, but I’m getting choked, dead tone on my 12x7 rack tom when both heads, identical single ply, are tuned to the same medium-high tension. If I bring the heads into a slight interval apart either way, the tone and sustain come back. This seems to defy drum physics. Any ideas?
Sounds like the heads are "out of phase" with each other - you hit the batter and the reso starts ringing at the same frequency and wavelength just a moment after. Instead of hearing 2 complementary notes that activate the shell, you get the same note on both heads and they "phase cancel" each other instead of passing that energy back and forth and through the shell. Disclaimer - I don't really know what I am talking about.
@@bobsondugnutt7526 I mean, that makes sense. What’s weird is identical tuning on my 14x14 floor tom makes for huge resonance, too much for my preference. But the rack tom just doesn’t sound happy when tuned like that. Drums are fickle things.
@@pjyielder Speed of sound in air is more or less a constant, but frequency is dependent on tension. It sounds like you may have picked the exact frequency for your tom depth that results in phase cancellation. If you haven't, try gradually raising or lowering both heads together, and see if anything changes.
@@jc3drums916 Tom depth is almost surely the difference between the rack tom and floor tom resonating well or not when tuned the same.
But at least in my experience,not each drum....not each shell...do this in the same manner.The light shell of a supra sounds faster ' choked ' than a 9 ply beechwood shell...like the old sonor phonics for example...more mass in the shell makes a difference.....i would say.
But on the other hand...a little choked, especially by pritty tight wires is a sound i like a lot for funky grooves with a lot of ghostnotes... it's kind of cool.
And no muffing at all
I still am on the fence about the tightness of the snare side head. I used to crank it relatively hard and got good results from it. Sure, a lot of overtones but I somewhat liked them and didn't try to muffle them away. Then I tried your method with a more loose snare side head because the your reasoning made sense to me. I used a fresh snare side and batter head and really couldn't get a sound where I went "Ooooh okay that's what they mean". It just felt "meh". As soon as I went up with the tension on the snare side head, I got into a territory where I thought "ah okay now I have a sound that works".
This channel has helped me a ton and if you guys say something, then I know that it is "almost a scientific fact" because any tip you have ever given brought me positive results. Apart from this topic haha.
My question is: could you get a tunebot and show us the frequency of the snare side head ? I usually tune without a tunebot but with this topic I tried it and brought the snare side head up to 400hz and that yields me great results. I just want to get a feel for what your understanding of "too tight" is and what that is in hz. I would really appreciate it if you could do that. Don't even need to make a video about it, maybe try it off camera and just write a pinned comment on this video or whatever.
400 HZ. is NOT Considered cranked. In his demonstration videos, it's more like 450 HZ. That is cranked. I don't think people realize that. His bottom RESO head is at least 380-400 HZ. F3-G4....
@@vincentquattrocchi7924 thanks man! Right now I roll with the 400hz on all my snares. I made one important discovery though: When the tuning is rather high on the snare in general then you loose low end. So far, so obvious BUT if you slightly back off on the tension of the reso side then you are left with a still high and spanky tuning while having more low end and a more "breathing sound". The difference was most noticeable while recording. At least in the world of metal, that was some vital information I've learned there. For something like funk, the snare can be high tuned and don't have much low end. But the bottom line is what you said already: 380-400hz is the place to tune to.
Choked sounded good to me
Do you guys have drum dial settings for snare side head you'd share?