When They Don't Know What They're Doing | Season Six, Episode 39
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 бер 2024
- The simple truth is that so many professional drummers don’t really know what they’re doing when it comes to tuning and/or struggle to adequately communicate the “why” and “how” of their approach (if they’re even the ones tuning their drums). We’re not interested in shaming them for this, though there’s great responsibility on the part of the channel that places them on a pedestal and on the part of the artist when it comes to educating the community. Not everyone is an educator on every facet of our artwork and that’s okay. We’re here to focus on what you, the drumming public, can do to ensure that you’re getting accurate, valuable information and turning that into knowledge and, eventually, wisdom. This is going to take some effort and critical thinking though, so if you’ve been taking a back seat to your own education, be prepared to take a more active role.
PATREON:
This season is made possible by our Patreon supporters. Join us on Patreon for access to exclusive content such as Cymbal Sounds, our long awaited cymbal series, and MUCH more: sladl.ink/Patreon
PRODUCTION PARTNERS:
GIK Acoustics (sonic treatment): sladl.ink/GIK
AKG Audio (microphones): sladl.ink/AKG
Evans Drumheads: sladl.ink/EvansDrumheads
ProMark Drumsticks: sladl.ink/ProMarkDrumsticks
Signal chain:
Mics - Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB- Mac Studio w/Pro Tools 2022.5
Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Microphones: Pair of AKG C314 in Recorderman Configuration sladl.ink/C314Pair
Toms: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Kick Drum: AKG D12VR sladl.ink/AKGD12VR
Snare: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Acoustic Treatment:
GIK 242 Acoustic Panels: sladl.ink/GIK242
GIK 4A Alpha Pro Series Diffusor/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIK4aAlphaPro
GIK Evolution PolyFusor Combination Sound Diffuser/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIKEvolutionPolyFusor
GIK Tri-Trap Corner Bass Trap: sladl.ink/GIKTriTrap
Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra w/1960’s Ludwig Acrolite
Cymbals:
22” Jesse Simpson clone of old Zildjian A, 15" Zildjian Kerope Hihats
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G1 / Snare Side 300
Toms: N/A
Kick Drum: Evans UV EMAD/ EQ3 Reso
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
New Merch! We’ve got bandanas, shirts, and hoodies! Visit our merch store here: sladl.ink/merch
Click for different colors, sizes, etc.
👂🏼👉🏼🥁
Leave your questions, comments, suggestions, requests down below and don't forget to subscribe!
*NOTE: Troll comments will be deleted. You're welcome to disagree with whatever you like but let's keep the conversation civilized and focused on drums.
--------------------------
Sounds Like a Drum is a CADENCE INDEPENDENT MEDIA production
For more information, visit www.cadenceindependent.com
Follow us on Instagram: / soundslikeadrum
Like us on Facebook: / soundslikeadrum
It's worth adding that this episode is ultimately about what you can do as a consumer of media, not an attempt at trying to change the individuals and channels that share the half-baked anecdotal material as gospel. That's one of the reasons why we didn't reference anyone by name specifically. There will always be sources that are less concerned educational integrity. If you put in the effort and take responsibility for your education, you can cut through all of that and glean some actionable insights to use as a springboard for your own practice.
I think part of the issue is that people like to construct a story of themselves and construct an identity based on things they believe to be true. If they have to admit that something they believed is actually incorrect, they perceive it as a personal weakness or shortcoming, and the image they've created for others is somehow tarnished. I see people all the time come to a definitive conclusion based on minimal information, and then they cling to it no matter how much new information they see to negate the previous conclusion.
We are all learning. All the time. About everything.
If you aren't finding that you're wrong sometimes, maybe you aren't looking hard enough.
I believe that tuning is subjective. I don't prescribe to any one drummers preferred method. I know what I want my drums to sound like and what works for me in most situations.
This reminds me of something one of my old pastors said.
"if you don't know why it's working, you won't know how to fix it when it breaks."
About 10 years ago the hard rock band I was touring with did a tour with another group, swapping the headliner spot every other show. Their drummer was a long-time full-time pro who had formed that band as kind of a personal project. He was also the tour manager. At the time, I was brand new to my band and on my first pro tour. After the first few shows he recognized my abilities behind the kit, but also noticed my skills with tuning, which caused him to ask me to handle head changes and tuning on his kit, for a percentage of his cut (he basically hired me to be his drum tech).
He could not tune a drum kit to save his life, and he knew it. His kit sounded a million times better after I got hold of it. He stopped blowing out snare-side heads (he cranked them waaaay too tight!) and we found tone in that kit he'd never heard before.
He was a fantastic player behind the kit and a cool dude, but had always had a tech handling his gear, and had thus never bothered to learn the science behind drums. Just because you are a pro does not mean you know the first thing about making drums sound great!
Well said! The same is true of guitarists. John Petrucci always advocating tonewoods when that has been debunked like crazy! Lol Just stick with what you know, ya know? Lol
I have had multiple drummers ask me to tune their kit for them, and gotten compliments from them as if I am some sort of wizard for the results I was able to get fairly quickly. They almost always ask how I did it, expecting some secret hack or formula, but I just tell them that I stay curious about the gear that I have, and constantly try to learn why it works (or doesn’t).
I also always recommend this channel, because that’s the only real “hack” that I have over anyone else 😉
Isn't it great how the experience gained from methodically engaging in tuning regularly and trusting your ears can lead to feeling quite capable without the need for any super specific hacks/tricks? That's a perfect example of the information converted into knowledge and, from the sounds of it in your case, wisdom. Bravo!
@@SoundsLikeADrumthe best "hack" is to use your ears and not be afraid to tune all your drums in different ranges and know you CAN get them back to where they were if don't find a better sound.
A 10-minute treatise on how to use critical thinking to assimilate new information... we need like 4000 more of these getting shared enough that people actually listen and *understand* them. Thank you!
Agree with you
Great video. Remembering the likes of Rick Beato saying if your snare reso isn't cranked, it's going to sound terrible, but never explaining why, or even entertaining the idea of what kind of sound you're actually trying to achieve.
Thanks! Unfortunately, there are lots of people with broad reach that will parrot information they've heard but never really tested (what happens if you *don't* crank the snare side...?) and can't quite back it up. We often hear the phrase "if it's good enough for [insert well-known drummer here] then it's good enough for me," used as a way to back this up. This isn't exactly a rock-solid pathway to learning...
Cheers!
I really enjoyed this episode guys, very well thought out and verbalised. Keep up the excellent work. Love the channel
You'll run across those types of people in any profession or trade. They have their set of methods that have worked for them, and once they get a little older or achieve some amount of success, they not only stop being open to new things, but think their success is proof that their way is the best way. It's maddening.
Beato does do a decent job of explaining it. It’s generally true that you want a cranked reso in order to get good snare engagement. If it’s too loose, it generally sounds like garbage regardless of what you do with the batter because the snares aren’t able to vibrate. The opposite is not true - a cranked reso can work well with a low or high tuned batter.
@@theopinson3851 We've gotta disagree with you on the cranked reso prescription and we've backed this up with multiple videos in the past. Obviously if it's too loose it won't work otherwise it wouldn't be characterized as "too loose." But there's quite a range to work with that offers tons of character variety between too loose and cranked.
Very respectfully done. You really made the point without name-calling or bashing anyone, and along the way you might have taught a few viewers to think critically. We can hope, anyway!
Thanks so much!
No name-calling necessary, because I think we all know who (among the more popular YTers) fits the description. 😅
The number one thing I've learned from this channel is to get seriously hands on, experiment and listen listen listen. And it's also damn fun to do. Another great vid from SLaD!
That's been my take-away too. Experiment with different heads, brands, and tensions. I have no problems spending a night trying different tuning.
I've been on both sides of the spectrum regarding tuning. Played a lot of years without giving it a damn and drums sounded cool. Now I've learned more about it and I have more control. It's cool to experiment, learn different way to tune drums and like other things regarding drums and music, it's a process. So enjoy the ride and the sound you're getting out of your instrument.
Some excellent points well made and applicable to so many things.
Bicycles and politics….. great album title
Very nice. You had a big, broad lesson there, and as you said, it applies to way more than just tuning drums.
Wisdom for the World. Thanks.
Trying out different heads and tunings over years, you start to find your sound and sometimes change it up after a while and it helps you create all kinds of different ideas behind the drum set
This is great, thank you for this episode. Lots of things learned in a single video. Kee it up 🙏🥁💯
Amen! Truth on so many levels! Speaking the truth. Thank you!
Great video! Thank you
Relinquish our critical thinking……. just take that line in.
Great vid, thanks guys
Great video! Thanks!👌
I can’t back this hard enough. The irresponsibility w information in social media is absolutely insidious, and there are seemingly no consequences barring ostracization or legal, both of which are extremely easy to avoid. Which essentially means anyone putting bad info out there and getting views off of it is profiting. How the hell do you de-incentivize that? You don’t. You can only incentivize the opposite. Great work as always, ya’ll
Thanks for the video. Really love the way you guys explain drums 👍🏻
I really love how you present things. You are truly a gent, so knowledgeable, and you never beat people over the head with it. You are a "why" type of person, and for that I thank you!
As for me, I am clueless. I turn the drum keys a bit here and there without fussing to much, and when it sounds (and feels) good to me, I call it done! My drums probably aren't studio friendly sounding, but they do sound pretty good in live situations. I've often wondered if studio tuning is very different than live tuning.... (maybe they're the same?). Anyway, thank you very much for all your wonderful videos! Love ya man.
P.S. I'm an okay drummer if I do say so myself, but you're one of those drummers I could listen to all day, enjoy myself, and learn a lot at the same time. You have a swagger that I really dig.
Nothing but hugs fir Sounds Like A Drum.
It's nice to be real
Respect to you both
Heath
Awesome and much needed meta video!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!! This video is so needed, and should probably be watched by everyone watching UA-cam, but we know it won’t, unfortunately.
Thanks for the quality of work that you guys put out here, we really appreciate it!
You are so welcome!
This has been my problem since I started drumming 8 yrs ago. I'm an intellect, so I like to understand the why's, not just follow the numbers. I was following the steps from another channel, but when I changed to Evans from Remo, that method was producing a terrible sound that would ring out for days!! The video on choking was the best one for me. It helped me understand what was happening and how to make adjustments to fix it. I am super happy with it now and was able to get rid of my muffling ring. Being able to tech your own equipment seems obvious. I raced Baja for many years, it would have been stranded on several occasions if I didn't know how to fix my own bike on the trail. tnx for the videos.
I've played drums for a long time, however I really started to care more about tuning since I started to record myself. I've watched a lot of videos and none of them had the definitive answer on how to do it the best way. I took bits here and there and tried them out and worked out some sort of methodology, but it's far from perfect... And I still have lots of knowledge to acquire and practice to put in. What you're saying makes a lot of sense
I love the idea of your own unique sound.
I find that the sounds you choose for your drums is a major part of your identity. Not many drummers care that much and just use what is popular. I play metal, but my drum sounds are influenced by so many non-metal sources. My toms are way higher than most and I use a rototom as my first tom. My snare is a 12"x8" very woody sounding maple snare that is super unique. That's my sound and a part of my musical identity!
been playing indie pop styles and funk pop. been tuning my toms in a jazz tuning and tuning my snare higher than most! i find hi tom tunings sing way better and if tuned right sound really musical!!
@@cjkenney Yes! Our bands sound is low tuned guitars and high tuned drums. Very logical in my head, drums cut though more and the guitars can chug underneath
Well said. Can even feel the frustration what drove this video
Yes, I agree with the general thought here. In particular, tension on the snare side head. So many firm opinions. And all it takes is 1 hour of your time: take a drum, loosen the head. Tune it up a tiny bit at a time, play it, record it. Increase tension by tiny tiny steps. Repeat. Within that 1h you have learned several spots where you like the sound the drum makes. Two of my favourite snare side sounds are a whole turn apart. I really recommend going very tight, until you can’t move the head with your finger, this is so you also know those sounds.
Really well delivered topic, and all so true. Someone on our phone/computer screen tells us something, so it must be correct... right? Usually, with no explanation as to why you should, or shouldn't do such and such... hence, all reasoning about cause and effect goes out the window, and then we just regurgitate the premise without any curiosity, or need for critical thinking. That's why I look forward to your episodes, you provide information, what the reasoning is behind what you're saying. Plus, you are not pushing brands/products, and you never say your method is the 'only way'. Thanks Ben an Cody.
My standard set up is acrolite with 15inch kerope hats. My snare side head is not cranked.
i have a super cheap steel snare (30 dllrs cheapest taiwan snare), and sounded so high pitched with nasty overtones; i changed the reso and batter, using a Remo controlled sounded coated, and wow. sounds too much better!. thanks for the wisdom lml lml
This is great. Honestly. Tune the thing until it sounds good to you. Then you’ve succeeded.
Nice ❤
One thing I've learned through experimenting a bunch, and maybe I'm doing something wrong here, is that the pitch you hear next to each lug (when tuning the head to itself) is also affected in a big part by the opposing lug's tension.
Sometimes I hit next to a lug and it sounds quite too high, even when pressing the middle of the head down. So I lower it, but it still sounds much too high! And I have this gut feeling that I can't keep loosening it else it'll just be objectively completely detuned compared to the rest... And then I lower the opposing lug and it actually helps a lot!
So nowdays I go around the whole drum a couple rounds to try to really figure out what's pulling what. It could be that all my hoops are warped or something... I do this with triple flanged hoops, don't have enough experience with die cast and none with wooden hoops to say if this happens with other types.
As someone with all three types of hoops, it happens with all of them. I suppose stiffer hoops exhibit the effect to a smaller degree, but I can't say for sure, I never tried to quantify or compare it.
Brilliant. Always assume anyone you're listening is a nincompoop until they prove otherwise 😁
Great job without dropping names ;)
Just out of curiosity, given there are so many episodes and seasons, do you have a playlist for someone just starting out with tuning? Or should i just start with S1E1 and run through all of them lol
I always tune my snare drum to how I like it to sound. I don’t over think it either. I might totally detune the 2 closest lugs in the middle of a gig for a different sound and it sounds great. That said, the sound tech said at sound check that it was the first time he didn’t have to tweak anything and it sounded great. I guess dogs really do have good ears. It makes up for the fact I don’t have any thumbs. But seriously, after doing this for over 40 years I can easily get a great sound by tuning by feel.
For me i found a tuning method that gets me to the sound i like .What's really frustrating is that you get your perfect snare sound and then it makes your toms go crazy .Or vice versa ..Another hard drum to tune is the bass drum with a double pedal ..Not many vids at all on that topic .Not all tunings and muffling work with a double pedal if you want speed ..I hope this channel addresses those tuning issues in the future ..That is a very tricky subject .Head tension spring tension muffling all effect a double pedal in different ways , you will be surprised how much ..Stay well
Life is a autodidactive thing....someone once said....and i guess that's what you wanna say too....and i would absolutly agree....everybody is responsible for himself...and i would like to ad...everybody will find what he or she needs ....just by following the inner voice.Not everybody is in the same level.....so everybody needs a little bit something different....what's good for A could be bouring or even bad for B and wirsewise (?).
When i started playing the drums back in '71 here in Germany it was pritty hard to find somebody who could show you something,so learning by doing and learning by keeping your ears and eyes open was the only way to go.....these days,you can find videos and information on allmost everything you want 24 hours/7 days a week .....this is all we were dreaming of back then...but i guess these days it's harder in annother way....we started in the dessert...now we're in the gungle....
Thanks for your words and thoughts !
Even Buddy Rich had his friend, Ellis Tolin, tune his snare drum. If that doesn’t humble you….😂😂😂
Mostly use Tunebot. Mostly all lugs same pitch give a good or acceptible sound. The heads are in tune with itself. Recently had a floor tom that did keep sounding rubbish. Pressed the centre and did find ribbles. Had to release the tension of the spots were there were no ribbles and than had to remove ribbles and tension up using the my standard method. So upgrading my method. It sometimes is required to loosen the heads, And start from (almost ) scratch in stead of adjusting from current situation. Remove ribbles and than tension up. I had to use some tuning insights instead of only using the tunebot. Heads(bottom/top , batter/reso) that have almost same tuning can give some strange overtones or weird interactions but mostly some dampening helps. Sometimes slightly change on of them does help. My experience: if i tune my drums always the same, i know what my instrument is doing. Now not the instrument is the variable but me, the music, the band, the audience, the event and the acoustics and ...the setup. Same feel and same sound always on any kit in any place. I use different sticks, brushes, mallets, rods, stick heights , techniques , dampening to change my sounds and feel. Fort me the recommended tunings do raise my sound into the world wide accepted ranges. There maybe better, there may be worse but this is acceptible by most musicians. Very difficult to have bottom or top higher in a prescribed way so i prefer the Simon Phillips way top and bottom same pitch for maximum resonance and only very small adjustments outside that range. I change my tuning when i have another setup of the same kit. Sometimes use major thirds, sometimes fourth intervals and sometimes major chords or inversions of that. Play all kinds of music so do not tend to use jazz, latin, funk or blues tunings. Still playing in all kind of groups. Almost never get complimentsa about my tuning but also almost never get negative sounds about my tuning. Yes i tune my drums! I maintain all my drumsets as is possible within my budget. Still they all are accepted.
Would ya post ya tune bot settings?
Not just the internet but mainstream media too! Look how much shizz we got into by trusting "experts" on TV etc, particularly in last 4 years.
Well now I want a "How to gig on a bicycle" video.
Can this be more metaphorical than literal?
6:13 almost sounds like you’re talking about something else 😂 😉 👍
The mindset that because it's on the internet it must be true is just ridiculous. I'm amazed at how many videos I've seen about tuning the drums that are absolute crap.
I got to ask!!! How many videos can one channel do on tunning?? Wow.!
"He's not a scientist"? On the contrary, I'd argue that this channel is science in it's purist form: you try something, make note of it, try it again, make more notes, then change some variables and repeat.
Aw thanks. We were referring to the experience of watching other people who choose to dumb down the details and ignore the nuance for fear of acknowledging the physics at play. Cheers!
Yes I know who you are talking about too. He's great of course and I do like his approach. I don't take his teaching as pure dogma though.
A lot of high level pros don't tune or even set up their own kits, drum techs do all that work.
You’re absolutely right! Which is ironic when they’re asked how they get ‘their sound’. We’ve both been responsible for setting up and/or tuning kits from some of the biggest names in drumming and it always makes for an interesting experience (and some great conversation with them too!)
Lol has Rob Brown seen this?
To be clear, this was not directed specifically at Rob or really any one person.
Yeah. Those videos should be titled "how to tune a set of drums like a pro drum tech".
The idea that 14 inch floor toms are hard to tune is so iduotic to me. Just use your ears!
How about the depth?
Waiting on the "why do you keep hating on so much?" comments. Seriously, though, with (my estimate) 90+ hours of content and growing, I doubt what you've taught with this channel can be easily distilled to a reel. As much as sometimes I'd like it to be. I mean the draw of those "short-cuts" is that everyone looks for the quick fix sometime, especially when it comes to something that _can_ be as frustrating as tuning.
Don’t you guys do paid product placement endorsing products/companies because they gave you guys money to make a video? Sponsored content?
We do occasional Snare Spotlights that are paid features but we don't get paid for using any of the products we use in our episodes. On rare occasions we'll have a sponsor for an episode. We also earn a small amount of money from UA-cam ad revenue but our Patreon is our primary means of supporting the channel.
I once watched a video from this channel about how to tune jazz drums. They sounded awful. Each version he demonstrated. Truly bad. This guy might be paid to do this but I would disregard his advice by what I saw and heard.
This video has him bashing other drummers, anonymously, but… all the same. It takes some nerve to do and cowardly to not address the people your talking about if you actually think they are in the wrong.
Disappointed with this channel and moderator.
I only tune my resonant heads (poorly) because my batters are mesh and my mics are all underside