Controlling The Snare Buzz | Season Six, Episode 24
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- Unwanted snare buzz from sympathetic resonance can be quite problematic. But how can anyone prescribe a remedy when they don’t know the cause of the problem? Rather than trying to offer a one-size-fits-all approach in an attempt to treat the symptoms, we’re diving into three categories of potential causes for sympathetic snare buzz to address the root(s) of the issue and help you out in just about any scenario.
PATREON:
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0:00 Intro & Context
1:39 Equipment
5:36 Tuning
10:38 Circumstances
13:49 Expectations vs. Reality
15:09 Final Takeaways
PRODUCTION PARTNERS:
GIK Acoustics (sonic treatment): sladl.ink/GIK
AKG Audio (microphones): sladl.ink/AKG
Evans Drumheads: sladl.ink/EvansDrumheads
ProMark Drumsticks: sladl.ink/ProMarkDrumsticks
Signal chain:
Mics - Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB- Mac Studio w/Pro Tools 2022.5
Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Microphones: Pair of AKG C314 in Recorderman Configuration sladl.ink/C314Pair
Toms: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Kick Drum: AKG D12VR sladl.ink/AKGD12VR
Snare: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Acoustic Treatment:
GIK 242 Acoustic Panels: sladl.ink/GIK242
GIK 4A Alpha Pro Series Diffusor/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIK4aAlphaPro
GIK Evolution PolyFusor Combination Sound Diffuser/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIKEvolutionPolyFusor
GIK Tri-Trap Corner Bass Trap: sladl.ink/GIKTriTrap
Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra Snares: 60’s Ludwig Acrolite
Cymbals:
22” Jesse Simpson clone of old Zildjian A, 15" Zildjian Kerope Hihats
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G1, UV1, and G12 coated / Snare Side 300
Snare Wires: PureSound Custom Pro Steel 20-strand
Toms: N/A
Kick Drum: Evans UV EQ4/ EQ3 Coated White Reso
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
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I really appreciate your comment about coming to grips with the fact that the drums are never going to all sound like they are in separate rooms, all perfectly equalized. A drum set is a collection of instruments all grouped together, and they naturally will make one another resonate some. I LIKE that live quality!
Fantastic. I appreciate Sounds Like A Drum's stance on an extremely open attitude for everything drums. Nothing is truly wrong, what is the best we can get for our currently application. Another stellar topic. Thank you Sounds Like A Drum! 10 out of 10!
To me, snare buzz is part of playing drums; period. When you finish tuning your toms to get rid of the buzz, your bass player turns his amp on and your wires buzz like crazy. I prefer to have my toms tuned to my taste and live with the buzzing.
I have to admit when I saw the title of the video, I thought, “Oh great another snare buzz video.” I was pleasantly surprised by the techniques you explained. Great information here and I learned something new. Thank you for posting this.
Glad you gave it a shot! As it is the season of giving, be sure to share it with others who might have missed out.
I made the discovery that my snare drum sounds amazing with a really low tuned resonant head. it allows me to have a lot of body with not a ton of buzz and good attack, because I can control the articulation and feel of the top head without the pitch going too high. I almost don’t want to share it because it feels like such a valuable secret that took me so long to figure out
I'd like to add one more thing. Because I usually only have an issue with sypathetic buzzing when I play alone. I rarely ever notice it when plaing with a full band, unless there is a standing wave in the room hitting the snare. So just learing to ignore it to some degree definitely is a solution to the problem.
And the buzz also playes a role in the sound of the kickdrum attack. It's not a bug, it's a feature ;)
Lol I have a friend that always loves how snare drum sound in videos and then can’t get his snare to sound good cause he chokes it up so much to stop the snare buzz. I mean it’s a snare it should have buzz lol. So ignoring that small amount of buzz when no music is playing is right lol haha he just makes me laugh. I told him to just get a timbale lol no snare.
Everytime Cody talks about not cranking the snare-side head, I think about a Drumeo video they did about tuning where the “tabletop tight” snare-side head was preached as gospel. FYI, definitely not bagging on Drumeo, I love that channel and all the great stuff they offer and have done for the drumming community as a whole (I pay for the membership every year 😉). My point is that it’s a great example of why plenty of players would never take a chance on experimenting with a lower tuning because an established authority in the community has dismissed the idea. And to be fair, the tabletop tight idea has been passed around for a long time before I saw that video.
My own experience was eye opening when I tried lower tunings with the snare side (per another video on this channel). Way less sympathetic buzz, more control and articulation. Love this channel!!!
Me: I give up (prepares to buy a new drum)
Cody: NO (swats my hand away)
Great video. As you were saying near the end, it is a single instrument and part of the charm is the interaction between drums. Also, I have found that what "seems" like too much snare rattle, isn't actually picked up by the microphones in a session. I've run into that countless times. Too ringy of a snare or too much buzz but then after recording it, I find it's perfectly acceptable.
exactly, most times the soundman would tell me, unmuffle everything (remove moon gel), for a better sound before any effect
Another great video presentation from SLaD! I love how you explore so many sonic possibilities in your videos, and you're less about saying "Here's a terrible thing you shouldn't do," and more about explaining practical, real-world solutions to problems that every drummer encounters from time to time.
Fortunately for me, one of the truly best things about a Super Sensitive snare is that cross-talk is rarely an issue. On the rare occasions that is has been a problem simple adjusting of the tension of the snare wires has ALWAYS worked for me. Possibly it's due to the fact that the SupeSen lifts the wires against the snare-side head rather than pulling them against the head. One of the things that it does do is give a little reinforcing slap that's more audible to me than a listener when I kick the bass drum. I've come to love that sound, to the point where--in my mind--it's become integral to the sound of my kick. And since it doesn't get heard out front, I say no harm done.
Thanks again, Cody and Ben!
Top quality video as usual. I remember that you demonstrated on seperated videos how to mitigate snare buzz with various techniques :
- raising all the reso tension rods except the ones near the snare bed,
- using a shorter snare strand (13" instead of a 14")the applying more tension to the wires,
- using a focused sound batter head (central dot or reinforcing outer ring one).
What about making a video combining all 3 techniques?
Very good video, finally a good explanation of interaction between physical space and sympathetic vibrations
Guys, you are spot on. Absolutely love your stuff!
Cable Snares are my answer to this issue. They aren't spirals, they are straight cables, made of metal and after they snap they muffle the head with full contact across the head.
Snare buzz! Yes I get 99% of mine when one of my bass players crank their amp and play. Since I tend to take decent care of snare tuning - a lot of advice from this channel - I don’t run into any big problems. I think though right now I might have some bent wires as things seem a little noisier lately. Thanks for reminder! The video was great to watch, a lot of good ideas what to try, and good advice about just seeing a “set of drums” as just that, it’s a set of instruments we now call one instrument.
I like how the 42 strand wires on my Gretsch snare help muffle the snare a bit while being extra sensitive. But it does sound more when left rack time is not tuned good.
Thank you for the video. Love your content 🤠👍🏻
I just watched a video with Henry adler. My god. His wires were so painfully loose it rang for at least 1 whole second after each hit. It killed me. But I know he grew up in a different world
This is no answer to this episode,but maybe an idea for an experiment, it's something i practice for a few years now.I removed the lugs of a snare drum and a few toms too, bought new rods that were long enough to tension the batter and the reso side a the same time,one with the other,and got so kind of a free floating drum.....the concept of tensioning the drums in the very early days.
First i was afraid,the reso head coundn,t handle the pressure the batter head needs,but up to a mid/high tuning i had no problems till today.I think sleishman drums and snare drums work this way too.
Tuning is pritty easy this way,all from the top and the shell is free from all the lugs,the extra weight,exept a tom mount or snare strainer/butt end.Pictures are no problem,if you like.
Thanks
PureSound Equalizers help out big time with snare buzz. Also, dropping the snare wires during sound check is a good idea.
I find tuning the snare high and the 12" rack tom lower and then loosening the snare wires I get virtually no buzz. Smaller toms with higher pitch is a little more challenging.
What about sympathetic snare buzz from guitar or bass?
Just my two cents guys. This one would be really great if you could show how you fix the sympathetic buzz rather than just talking about it. Love your videos, just prefer the practical examples. Cheers!
Hey there! We absolutely agree. This would have been great with demos of every single issue and the fixes we outlined. It could have been an hour-long video…maybe a little longer if we’re being realistic. But, that takes a lot of additional production time- before, during, and after the shoot.
We’d sincerely love to make that happen for you and everyone else but the simple truth is that we can’t afford to do that and make these videos available for free. Every minute we spend producing this series is a minute where neither of us is getting work down that pays the bills and allows us to feed ourselves. Please trust me when I say that I’m not being dramatic- this is just the way it is.
Maybe if more people decided to chip in and support the series on Patreon we could put even more time in but we have to strike a realistic balance here. We decided that we’d make an episode that would cover the different categories of causes for a given effect and make recommendations for how to handle them when and if you come across the issues.
Hopefully this resonates with you. I don’t like making excuses so instead I decided to be transparent with you.
Thanks for understanding,
Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum Hi Ben. Really appreciate the transparency! And to be honest I get it. It's just a pity that the videos and ads themselves are not paying enough because you guys are the most useful and practical channel for drums on the whole YT. This definitely was not a hate from my site just maybe a wish. So I wish you guys more views and subscribers so you can get payed what you deserve because you guys rock!
A great plugin tool I've found for dealing with this in a recording situation is the Sonnox Oxford Drum Gate.
This falls under the “fix it in the mix” category. There are all sorts of gates and de-easers you can use if the issue is specific to recording but if you address it acoustically, you don’t have to fix it in the mix.
I tried the 2 key method and it works on my drums
Aight but the toms sound really great in this video about snare wires.
I also find that, with where I like my toms tuned, I get more sympathetic buzz from my 14"x6.5" snares than my shallower and/or smaller diameter snares, and it can be difficult (emotionally, not technically, lol) and somewhat time-consuming to sacrifice "perfect'" individual drum tuning to balance all the drums with each other. Just another reason I don't prefer deeper snares.
Nowadays, I'm more concerned with too much sympathetic ringing from my toms (esp. the floor tom) when I play my bass drum. It's pretty quiet, but it's one of those things where, once I hear it, I can't un-hear it. Plus, I worry about it muddying up the mix.
Snare buzz is a pain. I’ve managed to get rid of most of it… until the bass player sets up, then off it goes again. Grrrrrrr.
I had that issue till I muffled the area around my drums cause I was close to the wall also and sound just bounced all over
Honestly I have this problem more with kick drum. I like a low tuned snare, and a punchy EMAD kick with some low end sustain and so the kick tends to rattle my snares more than the toms.
Is a Conrol a convict roll? Like the “Con” stole the other L?
You dont wanna hear the snare buzz? Wear ear plugs accoustic drums sound way better with those and eliminates the unwanted tones
What about useing single headed toms,like the 12 +16 you play here ,plus a kick with a batter head head only...a complete concerttom set so to say
this video lacks examples of ugly snare buzz and how to adress each particular type. for instance, i had extremely ugly buzz noise on my ludwig supralite and, to be honest, I still didn't get rid of it completely. i decreased it to a degree when i can live with it with some rain dancing (a bit of random tuning, a bit of tom random placement), but i'd be glad if that would be not a talk-video but more problem-solution video
I've had some cases like that, where you hear the first regular snare buzz and then a really bad metalic zing. I still get that every once in a while. I usually cure it by lossening the snare wires a bit. I think in my case it was that I wanted a very tight snare wire sound and I actuall got them so tight that they had a specific pictch which would interact with the snare tuning as well. Good luck.
This wasn’t an attempt at demoing every single example we covered. The concept with this video was to provide you with the tools to fish and feed yourself for a lifetime rather than us fishing for you and feeding you for a day. In fact, that’s really the purpose of this whole channel…
@@SoundsLikeADrumI get it, I was just a bit upset that you didn’t demonstrate the specific buzz problems. I like your channel guys, and when I saw the preview, I was like “ok finally the guys who really know their stuff tell me how to solve this problem and not just “crank the bottom” or “don’t overthink it””. But still no ;(
Set it up like Daru Jones, jk
Toms sound too dead, no resonance