Repair: Ford Escape P0446 EVAP Vent Problem
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Come along with Eric & Ivan in this diagnosis as Ivan double checks Eric's original diagnosis on this 2008 Ford Escape 3.0 AWD. It turns out it is not always as simple as replacing the EVAP vent and calling it a day.
Ivan's Channel: / motoyam82
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. South Main Auto Repair assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. South Main Auto Repair recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not South Main Auto Repair.
Man if I was closer I would stop by and program anything Ford for you free!
+FordTechMakuloco Oh now that would be a good video :)
South Main Auto Repair
Oh Brian, that's so kind of you
You
Eric O "favorite video shooter"
& Iven
Are the only ones really worth the time watching..
And of course not to mention the Greatest world teacher Paul Danner.
And when I say world i really mean it guys he's got fans all over the globe.
Thank you all, you really made UA-cam worth watching.
Wasn't there a TSB on these ECMs for going bad?
There are independent shops out there. Like these guys: sosdiagnostics.com/repair_shop.html
Excellent! Ivan is so sharp. I like hearing his diagnostic process... such a sweet guy too!
Thank you Ivan, very good diagnosis.
It's pretty cool see how you two tackle diagnosis. You guys make a great team. Great video!
+arcdraw He is a great friend
Brake Cleaner as an antiseptic, who would known. Great vid guys. Thanks for what you do!
just want to say thank you for your channel and helping me out with alot of vehicle trouble and saving me thousands of dollars!
Great video Eric! I'm sure it's a good feeling when the customer leaves with a smile on their face.
No, he said she was crying when she heard how much he saved her.
+rusco321 That's right, she also said she wanted to smooch me haha then she looked at my wife lol
That video turned out excellent. Only thing i miss is taking the cover off the old PCM for a quick look to see what might have happened.
I suspect a fried board but you never know.
Thank you Ivan for making this video possible!
+Cadde Yeah, I was hoping they'd open the old PCM and look for any evidence for why that pin was getting grounded.
It's nice to have Ivan around to validate your diagnosis. Lot's of knowledge between the both of you and you're friends which is cool!! I enjoy watching both of your videos and even more when you are both working together.
Yes, very good to see a diagnosis, and not just throwing 1000.00 parts at it, great job Ivan!!!
for the record, my favorite vids. to date is with Eric and Ivan.
Great video!! Totally a South Main Auto Video. Good to see you there Ivan!
So I recently did the Timing Cover/Water Pump and A/C Compressor/Orifice Tube/Reciever-Drier on a 2002 Ford Taurus. I swear if I had a camera to record it, I would have had a South Main Auto video...including:
- Dropped Fasteners and Tools down the bottom of the car
- Brake Clean!
The only things I wouldn't have had were quirky sayings like "1-2-BBQ!", and the man, Eric O. himself. Haha. Each time I dropped something down the bottom, I said "Dropping fasteners South Main Auto style!" While the job was fun and my first major repair on a vehicle on my own, having watched SMA videos really helped make it fun. The procedure came from a Fordtechmakuloco video. I don't think you have done a Ford Timing cover video yet...In the end, I was only partially defeated, and likely because I may have put the stupid orifice tube in backwards...
Thanks for the knowledge you share with us and for the entertainment you provide in each video that bleeds over into real life.
+Pete Gaytan III Haha glad to see the channel is growing on you lol
Great job guys. I have seen a couple of Ford PCMs corroded through the case before and one was an Escape. I thought maybe you had one there. Amazing how some dealerships don't want to even talk to you, like they are "Gods gift" to the automobile or something. Happy that everything turned out well for you and your customer.
I hope you guys do more together. Great Synergy, both technically and personality wise.
as an electrical engineer I would love to take that PCM apart. sometimes they are pretty simple circuits.
Ivan great video, got to the meat and bones of the problems and made it very easy to understand, Eric you got a good buddy there.
+super coupe Ivan is a great friend indeed!
I used to work for Ford in EFI System design. All Ford PCMs for the past 15+ years have an internal "output circuit check" capability. (Checks for all low speed outputs properly connecting to ground and going open.) I don't recall, but it may only run during KOEO testing. I am also pretty certain there is a "harness wiggle" test that can be run during KOEO. My memory is not as good as it used to be.
I would love to have a look inside that module. There must be some corrosion causing a short and holding the voltage up to ~4V.
Great video as always. The problem dealing with dealerships is the multi levels of interference you have to deal with. If you could get past the greeter/receptionist, the service writer, and the manager, and get right to the guy with the dirty hands and tools, there would be less hassles. Flat rate book time pay structures also raise the cost.
+eldoradony That is it all wrapped up! You said it!
"Remember viewers, If WE can do it, you can do it! Thanks for watching."
Great Collaboration Video! So like Ivan said, a vent solenoid caused the PCM driver for that solenoid to fail?
Only saw that once on a 84 or 85 GMC V8 "G" van. It was an open diode on an air conditioner clutch. The AC worked, then turned off the clutch and poof went the driver in the PCM. Also set the timing back to base timing. They drove it over 100 miles like that, almost smoked the cat! I'd had some training on the system, knew exactly what was wrong. Another PCM, new diode, checked base timing and advanced timing with the A/C on. Fixed and down the road!
Love all your videos. The collaboration videos with Ivan (recently subscribed to his channel) kinda make you feel like you're with your buddies on a weekend fixing somebodies car. The mix between mechanical repair and electrical/computer diagnostics is great. My only complaint, and I must point this out....is I think you forgot to cue the dramatic music at the appearance of Brake Kleen.
Eric I think you're going to need a bigger building and more technicians!
I used to work as a welder fabricator. You never get used to burning yourself it always hurts like .... !
You and Ivan work well together. Thanks again guys! Another great SMA video.
This is a great video Eric and Ivan! Thanks for sharing this with us. I have seen this one, but I had a P0446 today and wanted to watch some other videos to see what I maybe failed on in my video!
Nevertheless, you guys are great techs for sharing your knowledge and experience with all of us!
Have a great 4th with the family guy's!
Another excellent production from South Main Auto!
Excellent video, I learned so much. AND a response from the king, FordTechMakuloco. You must rate pretty high Eric for Brian to be following you. GOOD JOB MAN!!! I'm also following Ivan now. That guy is SMART!!!
Nice to see Eric and Ivan together again in a video!
I'm not entirely sure about disinfecting wounds with break cleaner, but that is a whole different subject! ;-)
Keep up the good work.
Awesome vid. Ivan you are a great tech also. You guys make a great team. Comin to see u Ivan
Word to the wise. Not all vehicles lose power to the EVAP with the key off. As some remain on to purge the system even when parked. I seen this first hand on Fords and drove me crazy till I begged the Ford tech with beer and lunch. Toyotas use the same setup as well.
hahaha did anyone else notice Eric's signature "woah!" in the background at 17:15?
The infamous Eric "WOAHHHH" @17:18
LMAO!
Love the first aid tips at the end. Who knew brake cleaner had disinfecting capabilities!
Great video with full of trouble shooting knowledge...!! Thanks for posting this video and showing how to work through the diagnosis. If your shop was close to me, I would be bringing over my vehicles to be serviced.
Since those PCM's are so expensive, why don't you open it up at see if the partial ground can be cleaned and possibly reused. If nothing else, It will add to your knowledge of those units
Its probably a shorted transistor that would require SMD repair.
More cooperation, less world troubles.Great video.
"Don't be a Sally", lol! It's quite disconcerting that a $25K vehicle could potentially be sent to the junkyard if the manufacturer didn't feel like producing a new computer for it though. Makes me wonder if my next car should be 20 years old so it can actually be fixed. ;)
Excellent job on the Ford Escape PO446.
That SnapOn Versus makes it a lot easier than how i'm troubleshooting this exact problem on my 2006. Good 'ol DMM is all I can afford. What you showed sure made sense of why I was getting "weird" voltages on my DMM though. I'm going to run through everything once again and if everything shows like this video does.. (I hope it doesn't) then I guess it's time for a new ECU
Oops! Old video. I really appreciated the interplay between mr brakecleen and ivan. What's wrong with going back to the gascap??
Much better billable items for service dept. income (similar to wallet flush). Now owners are sshush, it's a secret (BETA TESTING).
Love learning more about bi-directional controlling
It seems like its only a matter of time before we have no choice in investing in the pass thru. I am holding off as long as I can. I am sure you are doing the same thing. Very good video. I had a ford F 150 that the vent solenoid took out pcm
Great job guys, In our area we have a stereo shop that has some computer kids that come to the shop with lab top and program stuff for us at great price if they cant do it no charge,we have that pass thru thing its a pain in the ass especially when snap on scanner doesnt corporate. Most dealer ships here in ct aren't much help ether.
Great video Eric. If Ford wouldn't cooperate how cool would it have been if you sent the PCM overnight to Brian @FordTechMackuloco for reflash. Would have been a collaboration of epic proportions!.
+peelman1506 Great idea! I was half hoping that they would rip open the original PCM and find some green crust to clean up and fix the problem.
+peelman1506 i would like to see that too! i am sure brian would be up for a visit to ny.
+peelman1506 Yeahhhh......And those guys are both Polish too.
Great teamwork......
Great video guys, yeah I know how those dealers are! I once had 2 new 2007 chevy 3500 plow trucks that would overheat in the plowing season, the dealer service rep. said we should take the plows off and carry them in the beds between parks, I checked with some guys on a site called BAT Auto and one guy sent me a service bulletin for the exact problem which gave me a list of parts needed which was a new fan clutch that took care of the problem, which was under warranty, now why couldn't the G.M dealer do this ? never trusted them again after that. I gave all of this information to the plow installer who said he had people complaining of the same problem and boy was he ever happy.
Thanks Ivan!!!!!
YEAH BRAKE CLEAN! Well...I can't believe I'm being THAT fan boy on the internet...^^
No, in all honesty, it is amazing that you actually do care about your customers...becomes more and more rare these days...
Related info: I recently spent a lot of time on an escape looking at the circuit which operates the EVAP solenoid. There was nothing wrong with THAT circuit - however - what I considered ANOTHER circuit : the vent circuit had a bad wire between its 12v supply and the shared 4pin connector ahead of the carbon canister assembly.
THIS was my root cause of P0446 - another circuit in the evap system.
Hands down best video on UA-cam great info man it’s damn refreshing to actually see a honest mechanic that cares about his customers amazing job both of ya smart as heck a lot over my head keep up the good work men I have a 2016 Ford Edge 2.7 ecoboost I pray I don’t have to go through all this stuff I bought the purge valve solenoid assembly praying that fixes it any advice I would be greatfull
Interesting subject. I ran across a Lincoln LS ABS module that turned on the ABS light. The system works however. That part is $1,100 from Ford and they confirmed it had a P code that suggested power brake module boost something. Some have said it's just a cracked solder joint inside and those can be repaired but have to be re-programmed.
Great for the owner that the reflash worked- you know I have a 2009 Accent and my seatbelt light was on all the time so I checked the module and some of the pins were corroded, I sprayed with some contact clean but a no-go so after pricing a new one from Hyundai which was like 650.00 I go on from ebay for around 100.00, I just plugged it in and the light went out, I guess when the car is in an accident then a salvage yard unit is NG, I saved like 550.00- you guys know what you're doing that's why the garage is full
+jim dandy Thanks Jim, sounds like you had a good fix too.
Great video Eric!!!!....Hello to Ivan!!!....Great team!!!....I´ll subscribe to Ivan´s channel!!!...I see now he knows everything about electronics!!!.....Great and fantastic job you´ve done with this costumer!!!!...both of you are really professional!!!!....Congratulations!!!! :) :) :) :)
Man, you guys have too good of a time together. What are friends for anyway?
Great video guys (thanks Eric and Ivan)
Another fine collaboration guys. I use IDS although I buy the subscriptions as required.
Always a good diagnostic. Thanks!
Extremely irritating background chatter in the first six minutes or so of the audio track. I realize that kind of problem is difficult to control in any kind of productive repair environment. You and Ivan keep up the good work.
I was wondering when the brake cleaner would make an appearance! No wonder Advance Auto Parts stock is going up this morning. I personally like the smell of carb cleaner better. :P
+anti0918 Carb cleaner gives me a headache
+brian0918 No silicon dielectric paste !
Great video guys! Nice team up!
+Toyota Tech Thanks Yota!
Good diagnosis guys ! Been there done that with the wedding ring and a welder. with no gloves, really hurts. Hey spray some brake cleaner on the old PCM, hey u never no :)
Eric, you need to make Ivan an offer he can't refuse to come work for you.
+Jeff Telford Haha he lives 4 hours away!
17:17 you can hear Eric yell lol. Good video!
Lol I herd that
Great video! Funny when Ivan got a wiff of the brake clean he made the mistake of the upside down PCM. I hope there is not a run on brake clean at the auto part stores!
You guy did great work on this video thanks🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
The changes in technology dismay me. I cut my teeth on carburetion and points/condensor ignitions, then got out of it. Back then I was always able to get someone I would find broke down out on the road going again. It would take a broken cam gear or something catastrophic like that to defeat me. Today it is seldom I can help someone. If I suspect a fuel delivery problem maybe swap out a relay, that's about it.
We gotta teach Iven (or Ivan) how to say, "That's your problem lady..."
Dropping stuff in the backround? lol. Looks like you have a great camerawoman there. No more dropping the cam
I would have loved to have seen you guys open that thing up and examine it.
Another great video.
Eric, you going to open that old pcm to see if you can find the problem? Might just be a simple transistor replacement.
Two artist at work.
40 years ago,Volvos had early BOSCHE ecus-buried under either drivers or passenger seat (forget which location)
-many Volvos and Mercedese used similar but not same BOSCHE ECU-where replacement ECUs about $600 NEW plus labour ~
~I sensed a 300 Milliwatt GERMANIUM transistor overloaded from heat vent or duct going to rear seat!!
-so replaced it with $2 SILICON transistor rated 1 w
-instead of (then about $300) used ECU -that STILL used both underrated AND temp sensitive transistor ~
so ( in BOTH hot summers AND cold winters) gave driveability problems -from ECU
thus FIXED many Volvos and Mercedese -for about $50 TOTAL ~~
Great video, once again! Would like to see a post-mortum on the old PCM.
And that's why I keep my 1955 f100
Nice job. I didn't know Ivan was that close to me. Less than 1 hour to State College from Claysburg Pa.
Brake clean for stress, excellent! I used to make models for that before they added mustard oil. :-)
Do you like using the Low Rise Car Lift, as you did in this video? I have always been leery of disconnecting the PCM connectors with the BAT connected, but you guys proved that those computers are tough and don't easily short. I suppose having some part of your body contacting the car frame will eliminate most static charges. Awesome video!!
Epic good time!! Now, if you could get Mr. Paul Danner in with you guys, to make a video, there would be four of my five favorite super heroes in one place! Then you could call S.M.A. the Hall of Justice! Scannerdanner would be superman. Eric plays the role of aquaman. Ivan and Hannah are the wonder twins. And you know Vanessa plays Wonder Woman, because she is seldom seen outside of the invisible jet!!
Who is number five
That would be Mrs. O. aka Wonder Woman! She don't like to be on camera. There have been more certified Bigfoot sightings, than Mrs. O. sightings. ;-)
Nice job guys, I hate calling computers myself. Any time we suspect the computer I check all powers and grounds and verify that the affected circuits have no shorts, opens or another circuit that is on drawing the available voltage down so low that it causes a circuit problem. Right now I'm trying to get a video up on a Cummins Transit Bus I worked on that involves checking voltages for the symptom. I will try to get that up as soon as I can.
good to see you are not offended by second opinion,then again two heads are better than one
Good team.
+Scott Stephens A-Team :)
You should pick up a cardaq m. Mine paid for itself in the first six months and also gives access to quite a few of the dealer diagnostic platforms. I have had quite a few GM trucks that had to have a reflash to get the idle down after cleaning the throttle body.
Btw all of the fords I've programmed I've been able to program the Pats system through the FMP software as well. That's why I love GMs SPS programming interface. They have all modules on the vehicle available for programming plus their software is browser/Java based so no need to constantly download and install software updates nearly everytime you program a vehicle. Other manufacturers need to take a lesson from them when it comes to j2534 and diagnostics. It's because of that I bet GM makes a killing off of acdelco TDS subscriptions.
great job guy's. keep them coming thanks
Fun seeing you two working together... You should get Matt to join you some time now too. :)
Great video as always. Thanks.
+Gerald Hinson Btw, still anxiously awaiting the continuation of the Kia!
+Gerald Hinson Maybe Eric could teach Matt how to look at the camera when he speaks to his audience.
+Gerald Hinson who is "Matt" ?
orfeous
Matt is Matt Schrodinger, AKA Schrodingers Box on UA-cam
+eldoradony Schrodinger isn't his last name lol. He takes his channel name from Erwin Schrodinger, who was a famous physicist. In a nutshell Schrodinger hypothesised that his cat could be both alive and dead at the same time because of a subatomic event that could occur. It was quantum something but it's been a looong time since I studied it.
Here's a different question; when you are making a video on a customers vehicle, do you ever offer the customer a chance to watch said video? If I were a customer, I would totally be interested in seeing how a fix was performed.
thanks for the cleaner!
Scary looking lift
Thank you Eric! Hey Ivan I guess is not that easy to work with a pretty lady right next to you!!
What a team!
So when you want to hook a computer up upside down you have to hit the connection harder. Thanks. Still, aren't you tempted to examine the old PCM guts to see if the failure shows?
A locked on solenoid would quickly become a dead short from overheating and burning the coil insulation and would fry the driver transistor and than eventually the pre driver and on and on back. Well that's how it works in a pinball machine anyways.... Only In that case you can repair the board for pennies.
Random Eric O. "WOAH" at 17:19. Haha!
+Pete Gaytan III Must have dropped something :)
Good job everyone.
Two cool dudes! Thanks!
my two favorite car bros!
Fantastic guys, yes Ivan is a Premium guy for sure , awesome channel . Ok guys if you were faced with a $1400 ECM + programming and the exact same senero would this be a feasible fix, just thinking outside the box, I really don't know what the hell im doing most of the time so don't laugh too much :) ok we have a Ford canister vent valve that is getting a command from the ECM driver with a ground but not a full ground not enough to close the canister vent solinoid. Could we wire up a Bosch 5 pin relay and use the neg. trigger that is sent from the ECM thru the relay to apply a separate and good ground to the solenoid since the relay will most likely work with a poor ground where the canister vent solinoid requires a full ground to energize . Now that would be a normal SMA fix if it's even possible. I have no idea just rambling on I guess. Great vid guys 👍👍
***** Haha , I like the way you think, I was thinking the poor ground was causing a voltage drop of I think around 3-4 volts. The relay using the poor ground could be used to provide a good ground and stop the drop entirely. Holly crap you know for sure Eric and Ivan are already laughing their arses off as I'm trying - Haha , it's my Waco idea I'll take all the heat and if it works were a couple of real sharp guys. LMAO.....
+CB Tech Wow I fell like I'm talking to my buddy ScannerDanner, is that you Dan ?? Ha. Ok I remember he did get a dim light with the test light ( lousy test light , mine is way better LOL) and that's were the rest went into the ditch, I like a DMM to see what voltage I got but anyway when he bidirectionally turned the ground on it did glow more , either one will provide enough of a ground, there was no code for low/ high voltage , just thought I'd throw that in, I have no idea . Ok man your sharp- staying on all the time WOW , you gotta get your own channel man your right up there with Billy R. Ok I'm just reaching for the moon here , don't laugh now. Ok if he had a ScannerDanner test light it would draw about 75 ma on the low glow and not energize the relay , maybe , now if we thru in a resistor to eliminate it and only went with the commanded on ground. Or we go with your idea, I do like where that's going as well. Not too many people I compare to Billy R , man your good .
+Steve Rob Hey Steve...stop it now, you're making my head hurt. Damn it, where's that Goodie's powder? Seriously Steve, some good thoughts there. Some issues that I can think of are that with the PCM driver off, there was about 4V. And with it turned on, the driver pulled the ground to 0V. This voltage could be used to drive maybe a 5VDC relay coil and its contact could be used to supply a 'good' ground for the solenoid as you've mentioned. Several problems happens now. The PCM is using the control ground to monitor its current through the solenoid. So, without this ground, the PCM would likely throw a code for an electrical fault. Another issue is that the troubleshooter inside the Verus mentioned that the solenoid was using a duty cycle which means Pulse Width Modulation. The contacts on the relay surely couldn't be bounding off and on as the contact would burn up in short order because of the high inductive spikes from the relay coil. And even if you put a diode across the relay coil, the relay couldn't' react fast enough for the original design intent. But hey, really good thoughts on the subject though....
stuzman52. First the Verus is wrong the canister vent solenoid is on/ off no duty cycle. I think :) I would have liked to have seen the voltage reading on the ground backprobed with the connector plugged in . I suspect the voltage sensing on the ground would see system voltage but the partial ground engagement at the transistor was not good enough to provide the amperage to pull the solenoid closed. Eric's got no choice now he has to bring the Ford back rip out the ECM and put the old one back and start from scratch with me and ***** at the standby . Haha
For sure DB Tech...always good to analyze a problem and then see if there could be some issues with the 'new' design.
Can you open the PCM and see what's wrong. I am guessing it's a fried driver (fairly cheap part).
great video guys and i have learn lots from this video thank you from las vegas nv
Ive a Windstar that when we turn off the vehicle, we can hear bubbling noises coming from the gas tank area. sometimes it will run out of gas going up long hills.. only does this when there's 1/4 tank or less.. plenty fuel press otherwise. .
Help me understand please. With the evap vent solenoid being normally open, I would expect that when voltage is applied that the vent would close. It appears that during the testing after the PCM was installed after the dealership reflashed it that Ivan was commanding the circuit on which was dropping voltage to 0. I'd expect that commanding the circuit on would result in voltage being applied and commanding off would remove voltage and result in the solenoid resuming its normally open position.
So a control wire is a with a negative polarity (-) and a feed wire is with a positive polarity (+) ?
Eric, good call ! No balls though, had to call in the big guns ! LOL! Along with you, Steve, Paul, Matt, and a few others, ( Not many ) Ivan is fast becoming another, that I follow on a regular basis ! You guys ( as Steve says ) are pretty dam sharp!
+Billy R Reaaaallll premium guy that Steve is haha
Your awesome dude ! LOL !
two heads are always better than one, especially when spending customers' money. I agree with Eric. A smart business call. thanks,,
Whos Steve?
Got a question - What do you think caused the damage to the ECM? Great that its fixed but am curious to the cause of the damaged ECM.
Believe you mentioned in the video that the owner took it in for repairs at another shop. I am wondering if the ECM damage was caused at that time.
Wonder if the other shop used a multi-meter on the wrong setting to troubleshoot the problem and the meter's 9 volt battery could have damaged the ECM? Am thinking the not so careful mech tech damaged the ECM during that troubleshooting of the control circuit (Evap Control Circuit) that leads back to the ECM.
+Hawaiian F150 I'll have to send you an Email sir... this one has an interesting story :)
+South Main Auto Repair I'm all ears.
Curious to hear this backstory... Has enough time passed that you can tell us, Eric?
So I'm still not sure what you did here, did you flash your test PCM and install that? At any rate its nice to have friends that can double check your theory.