Nha the n100 cpu from Intel is down to 140usd for a complete mini pc. Match that with a small gpu in the pci3 (m.2 port) and you would have the system talked about here.
To be fair, about 100ish (rough estimate) are just from Ayaneo. But, yeah, we need fewer variations and more actual performance and battery competitors to the deck.
they are lacking because fsr 2.2 and 3.0 looks like crap at lower res, hopefully fsr 3.1 could finally be good enough for upscaling at any resolution below 1440p base resolution
@@jeofthevirtuoussand These things have 7-8" screens. I don't know how anybody could see the difference without pausing the game and holding the console right up to their face. DLSS vs FSR vs XeSS matters a lot more on a desktop-sized 4k screen or a TV. Honestly, so long as it looks better than regular non-native resolution scaling on an LCD/OLED, who really cares? What really matters is getting more efficient SoCs regardless of which GPU manufacturer you're waving the flag for. Right now, the Steam Deck is the only thing which provides usable battery life and a good compromise between wattage and performance. It doesn't matter that my ROG Ally has better performance (although possibly not frame pacing) at 25w when it's lucky to last an hour.
Yeah, that is exactly what I thought too. So, I am starting a KickStarter and will make a new model. Much,much better than all these. It will have at least 0.5 FPS better performance ! Price wise it will be great value.
Valve has been working on the steam deck for years, even before GPD released their first handheld. Also, to be fair, most people didn't even know what GPD was. As much as I hate to say this, the handheld community was saved because of the switch. Then, when the Steam Deck came out, all these other companies started releasing their own handhelds. But GPD is an OG for sure and has been in the games since the beginning!
_But It Was Popular!_ @@acwbit2368 Which Encourage Other Company To Do The Same! We Would Never Have AYANEO And AOKZOE, ROG, VALVE, And Etc In The Handheld Market If No One Give A Care About Handheld! Ayaneo Might've Also Help The Handheld Market Rise Since They're Competing With GPD At The Time.
Nvidia is only worried about AI. I think Nintendo is still working with them on the Switch 2. But outside that Nviidia is only an AI company now. They are pushing into self driving cars and tech like that. Yes Nvidia will probably make GPUs but outside that. Their business is outside "gaming" products.
I do agree with that but it's not just NVIDIA per se, but also their directors, sponsors and shareholders who's last game they played probably dates back to the Atari 2600 days. If Jensen Huang wants to remain the CEO of NVIDIA, he needs to sing the song of AI and get the likes of AWS, Microsoft, Google and Oracle to spend hundreds of billions combined so they can be happy. Otherwise he gets ousted as CEO, and honestly I rather prefer Jensen as the CEO, rather than some ghoul that would focus ONLY on AI.
We already have one. It's called the Nintendo Switch 😁 Maybe not modern per se, but a Switch 2 is coming, hopefully using the latest Nvidia mobile chipset.
I don't think Nvidia would waste their fab time on a handheld when AMD clearly dominates it. Their profits on the enterprise side absolutely dominate the gaming sector. I still have my Nvidia Shield 'Portable' and the Nvidia Shield Tablet with cellular :)
@@lucasmancini2 amd laptop dominance was the greatest gen of laptops the price fell and machines run cooled. But amd and nvidea handled would be too hot to handle and too little space.
@ETA PRIME - Hopefully this comment gets to you! I am curious about this, as I think you should also try downclocking the Intel P-cores in conjunction with disabling them like you did. Intel's Turbo clockspeeds really, and I mean REALLY ramp up the power consumption. I would wager that actually having 2 P-cores and 6 E-cores active, with clamping the P-cores at 4.5GHz and the E-cores at 3.5GHz would give better perf and decrease overall CPU power.
So Nvidia already put out an incredible PC gaming potable though Razer, the Razer Edge Pro, which was incredible, an absolute powerhouse that still outperforms even the Steam Deck in some areas thanks to its native dedicated GPU and 2GB GDDR5 VRAM, but the thing is, we don't actually need a whole discrete GPU to get a massive performance boost, what we need is a proper full-fat APU, an actual APU, as per the original specs of what separates and APU from an iGPU or SoC, it on DIE VRAM, this would give 2.5 to 4 times the performance out of the gate, in fact, even if AMD added just a modest 1GB on DIE eDRAM cache to their current iGPU line-up along with a fast-inter-connect between system RAM, we would see at least a double FPS uplift, minimum frames would more than double, and if they combine this with a hardware line-double IC, we would get another 2x performance increase from that. That said, if Nvidia did get involved with say the Steam Deck 2, I'd imagine they would use their ADA or Lovelace Tegra dGPU, Intel have worked with AMD before to make the most powerful APU complete with discrete 4GB of HBM2 VRAM, which is still a monster performer, so it would be an Intel/Tegra Hybrid APU I'd imagine.
There's a little problem: Nvidia doesn't own x86 license, unlike AMD or Intel. The arm platform isn't able to handle AAA games (the strongest arm chip, the Qualcomm Snapdragon Elite X isn't dealing 30 FPS in baldurs gate in low setting). And that's on a $1700 machine....
I was really disappointed with msi. I tought it would be budget but its actually more expensive and it delivers less power. We need a handheld that is reasonable
so u want an intel cpu and a nvidia gpu in a handheld, it will have worse battery than the msi claw, theres a reason nvidia made an arm chip and its the best way still.
I don't want Nvidia to do X86. I'm Hoping that they do a pretty decently powerful ARM powered chip for a handheld. We've already seen great leaps in performance from apples a17 pro. So if they can make something similar or even better, I'll be happy😊
Maybe they can find a partner to make something between the GPU part of their Orin SoC (should be in the Switch 2) and a trimmed down RTX 4050 (in 700-800$ laptop right now). The RTX 3050 6GB is not that efficient, and that CPU was at full power all the time in your tests. They should do better than that.
dlss is a must for handheld , and its even better docked , because dlss makes it worth using a 1440p monitor , lock the framerate to 40 fps why 40 fps? because 40 fps is a massive step up from 30 fps , and it literally the middle ground between 30 fps and 60 fps , 60 fps =16.6667 ms 40 fps = 25 ms 30 fps = 33.3333 ms the difference between 16.667 ms and 25 ms is around 8.3 ms, the difference between 33.333 ms and 25 ms is around 8.3 ms. from 40 to 60 fps you would need ((( 20 fps to gain 8.3 ms ))) , from 30 to 40 fps you would need ((( 10 fps to gain 8.3 ms )))
More competition is always better. Intel already did something like this with Kaby Lake-G (Intel CPU with AMD iGPU). Something like that with Nvidia GPU will be interesting.
In the Commercial sector ARM chips are becoming more and more useful and prevalent, but butting up against a lack of experience from the developers of companies who want to adopt them and the lack of smooth interpolation between the existing x86 architecture and ARM. Apple has already tried to tackle this issue with their chips and has done well although they have a ways to go. Nvidia is very good at optimizing software and I suspect a byproduct of the AI gold rush will be much more advanced ARM chips and conversion layers to x86 in software (possibly hardware accelerated). Because Ai is currently 80% of their revenue I suspect they will not partner on any custom x86 or ARM processors for a specific device. However it is very likely they won't forget their still 12 billion dollar a year GPU market (20% of revenue) when they have all this new ARM tech to pass along to it. The Tegra chips that eventually went into switches were in phones, Audi Stereos and Tesla visual sensors along the way. Because of this I expect an ARM based handheld with an Nvidia GPU down the line that leverages all the work they are doing in the AI space to remove the downfalls of ARM compatibility while utilizing its amazing power performance. I also expect it to be a partnership rather than Nvidia branded due to the AI distraction.
i looks like nvidia dont really care about gaming so ill bet on that and i dont think it will beat amd.AMD is very invested in the console market like playstation and now the handheld console
I'll be waiting another 1-2 years for a better handheld to release Considering tehnology evolves faster and faster each year, i wont be surprised if the managed to fit an rtx 4090m in one of these (or equivalent)
Nope, no no no. No x86 🙅♂ When Nvidia enters the PC SoC space, it will be with a single chip, in-house design with Arm cores. There's no other option. Linux/Windows on Arm + a deep software investment from Nvidia will produce great things 😊
Has anyone successfully launched a handheld with a discrete GPU? My Acer Nitro 5 laptop has an i5-12500H coupled with a mobile RTX 3050 ti. That would be more than enough for a handheld if they could engineer it down into a handheld form factor.
An Nvidia handheld would contradict Nvidia's business model; of to just keep not innovating the same old ways, to allow speculative and extortionist prices, for anything computer related, at the global market. Plus, most Nvidia product architecture, is electrically power inefficient; from its already AutoCAD design drawing. The Nvidia handheld console idea, is only somehow an entertaining theme, for a basic ytb video, about computer technology.
Nvidia knows nothing about battery life or power consumption. They pump out GPU"s that just eat through the watts. A handheld powered by Nvidia would never exist until they can build efficient cores that can conserve power and Nvidia isn't about to give up their top tier rank reducing their power consumption. Who knows what the future holds. 5th Gen RTX may hold better watt to performance numbers but I doubt it will be enough to stuff in a compact power efficient package.
The more capabilities the more power it will require there is no magic giving you all the features and way more performance in a handheld format. And not like current iGPU are memory limited, while adding dedicated VRAM increases power draw while adding HBM would also inflate price. Intel cores are quite power hungry but good. Also advocating a proprietary technology is not the best option.
An unpopular opinion, but just give the finger to Nintendo when they bring out the switch and encourage some hardware hackers to make a linux (debian, arch, puppy, etc.) image for the device and have your nvidia handheld.
Qualcomm has the exclusivity for windows on arm until end 2024 so if nvidia wanted a windows handheld it couldn’t launched yet. Hopefully a new handheld in 2025 with mediatek.
What i would like to see: - Windows 12 - ARM - 8" 2160p 144Hz OLED VRR - 32GB shared ram - 8W handheld (only mode) - 20W+ docked - 40Wh+ battery - Detachable controllers - 1TB SSD - Dock with pcie slot to expand storage when docked - VR accessories (like Pimax Portal VR Kit) - Best chip possible for 8W handheld gaming and 20W (or more if possible) docked gaming
If battery life matters, Intel is not the way to go. Given their experience, Nvidia will likely go ARM on their own. But if x86 is needed, they might have a sweet deal with AMD.
the Ideal specs for a handheld PC worth buying: CPU: Intel i9 14th gen GPU: Nvidia 4090 RTX RAM: 128GB Storage: 16TB with 4 microSD slots Screen: 10" 8K QLED screen with wacom quality touch capabilities & a wacom style drawing stylus Battery: at least 10 hrs. for gameplay Audio: 2 audio jacks Face Buttons: 6 button set up (A,B,C,X,Y,Z) & 3 shoulder buttons on each side. Additional: NO PADDLE BUTTONS ON THE BACK OF THE GRIPS!!! & non braded cables. signature wireless controller, mouse, & keyboard as standard accessories.
Great video, as usual! What I would like to see as a handheld? I am already blown away from what they are now! But, I'm working on building myself a laptop dock for my Samsung Galaxy Z-Fold 5 with parts I had lying around from dead laptops... One feature I wanted to add was a Raspberry Pi 5 8GB to act as alternate computing (when I use my phone any other way). I was wondering what could be a good (or great) alternate to the Raspberry Pi... For example: I thought about the Mainboard of the Framework laptop 13... but it's 500-1000$ (canadian)... I would be looking more or less like the Raspberry Pi pricing (twice could be considered around the top limit...) Are there miniPC that are abordable, preferably AMD (for Ryzen), and comes only as the mainboard (i.e.: no box or enclosure)? Thanks
I don't know about you, but.. Nvidia handheld would be as slow as my laptop with RTX on it... Every single laptop with Nvidia I had was slow, leggy, and it felt like it was carrying a block. I'm not kidding, I went full AMD with the Ally z1e, and I can finally use my pc without legs. by the way, Nvidia never fixed the control panel leg. Personal experience, since 2015.
Currently APUs have quite good theoretical performance. Only thing holding them back is slow memory and memory bandwidth is just not big enough at the moment
Absolutely. I don't think enough credit is given to how impressive they really are. If they had GDDR6 or hell GDDR6 dedicated memory set aside for the APU it would be considerably faster.
Nvidia should do something completely different from x86. Go full ARM, Linux based OS with support for Windows on ARM. If Apple can pull off the x86 experience on ARM, why can't Nvidia? With the likes of WINE, Proton and Box86 existing, it feels like a lot of the legwork has been done already.
I mean, if you look at how some of their laptop chips perform at low wattage, it's certainly doable. Look at the RTX 4070 mobile used in the Asus Z/X13, running at 45W. I'm sure if nvidia could be bothered, they could present a GPU fit for a handheld that punches hard. But hey, like that's gonna happen anytime soon. Maybe that would ignite a fire udner AMDs ass to release new GPU architectures for APUs a bit more frequent.
Unless Nvidia starts making X86 CPUs, the power draw of 2 chips instead of just one would be a lot higher. Most powerful? Sure. It will also have the worst battery life or be way bulkier to compensate. FSR 3.1 will likely close the gap with DLSS. I’m extremely happy with my Steam Deck and I love SteamOS. I can’t see ever wanting a Windows based handheld.
As Windows on ARM likely is gonna get a boost (Snapdragon X) it think its mouch more plausible Nvidia would make a ARM-SOC. They alsohave in house Teams working on such things. So i thinks itˋs very unlikely we will see a X86 Nvidia Handheld. Also there war a Laptop showcase some Time ago, where Nvidia Teamed up with MediaTek to get a ARM und Nvidia GPU POC running on Linux.
Apple's m3 max gives roughly the same performance as a laptop rtx 4070, but with an entire chip power draw at maybe 65 watts. The apple iGPU probably never tops 40 watts. Meanwhile the 4070 laptop needs over 100 watts alone. This isn't an ARM vs CISC thing, so what's going on? The M2 iPad, fan less, has more GPU oomph than the steamdeck
i dont know about nvidia working on a handheld beside nintendo, but this : they are going to release "low voltage" desktop PC's CPUs contender to apple's M3 (more likely an arm64 format). but you know that means, ANYBODY, any brands just like how it goes with AMD Z1 extreme, it will be picked up by many of those brands. there WILL BE nvidia based handheld, albeit third parties. and you know how nvidia is with graphic departments. this is likely to happen in the near future.
Nvidia really isn't that interested in this market segment, they're not interested in gaming all that much anymore period. Unlikely to ever happen, plus they really don't have anything that scales to the low-end of laptop dGPUs anymore, what used to be media chips a step above iGPUs. Nvidia's only concern is AI, any other market segment gets sloppy seconds. Next-gen is seeing how Xe2 or Xe3 scales down. RDNA3+ is going to be on APUs for quite some time, 2027 iirc is the current roadmap, and 3+ won't have much benefit over 3. The only alternative is that any of these companies get a clue and ditch the APU for a dGPU package, or get AMD to spin off the Z series as a hybrid chip, shared substrate, similar to what Kaby Lake G was, or getting Intel to do similar with a proper Xe package with whatever their mobile chips are going to be named now under the new Core namings. Outside of this, AMD has chosen to stagnate this year, and their iGPU decision to retain RDNA3+ for so long is part of this stagnation, Intel can very quickly the better solution because Radeon team has had their thumbs up their ass for the better part of a decade, and the Zen team is slowing down, plus mobile chips were already a generation behind desktop chips but that's now looking like a two year gap. AMD is dropping the ball and will absolutely lose this market if they're not careful. Then we also have what's about to happen with ARM, considering everyone on the CPU side is interested, this might push for better developments on the GPU side. This is the only point that Nvidia might spin off a new chip for this. This is the point where Qualcomm might spin up a new desktop-class GPU to go with their newer desktop-class CPU for an SOC for this market segment. Plus the relevant market, Nintendo is overdue for a new switch, consoles are going into gen 10 and Microsoft is making a decision on x86 or ARM, etc. I mean just look at the comparison between Qualcomm's top-end and Apple's M series, there's a massive gap between the two and we all know Apple won't be producing the best option. Personally, I don't see the point in an x86 handheld, it's too inefficient to make sense. I'd rather just wait for an ARM device than deal with the downsides of x86. Change is finally coming, just hopefully sooner than later. But as per usual, ETA has some bad takes, like how the Steam Deck revolutionized everything and suddenly the handheld market exists because of them; while GPD has been around for quite some time and is using older chassis designs on newer models. I wouldn't expect this sellout to understand Nvidia's position in any of this, nor what AMD is now doing; can't wait until the 'AMD 8000 series is SO MUCH FASTER than 7000 series' video, when the silicon is quite literally the same CPU and GPU with a minor update to the NPU, or did that already happen? You can't properly speculate anything if you're uneducated on the topic, and the only thing ETA knows is to shill whoever is paying him this week.
nvidia is almost as bad as intel and that's the real reason they don't have one or a console design in many years. not only are their smaller lower end GPU's trash compared to AMD's, only floating on blind zealotry and ignorance to sell. the RTX 2050 mobile which the Switch 2 SoC will likely have pretty much the same GPU is a 30W GPU alone on Samsung 8nm so Switch 2 will have to downclock or cut down the GPU, falling further behind the Radeon 780M iGPU in the Rog Ally and other laptop chips. Switch 2 is using 8nm and not an advanced node. Not much can be done beside downclocking/cut down. And how well does an AMR A78 compare to Zen 4?
It's better if they don't. It will be a disaster if they made an x86 chip because they have 0 experiance. Just look at intel, they fell behind and have been unable to compete with AMD when it comes to power efficiency, playing forever catch-up. AMD is the expert in APU power efficiency, they have been getting big power efficiency improvements even before Zen with their excavator apus. The best nvidia can do is ARM designs and they aren't even the best at that. Switch 2 isn't even out yet and it can't even compete with current APUs let alone Strix Point APUs coming out in August. And it's not just the CPU side, the GPU of the APU is extremely power efficient. There is a reason nvidia killed their MX series low power gpus, their 25-30W GPUs couldn't compete with 15-25W APUs, and needed 50W to even match 35W APUs and that doesn't include the extra power of the CPU it was paired with.
Just keep the traditional laptop hardwares for Nvidia handheld. Nvidia mobile dgpu with AMD/Intel mobile cpu, soldered on board ram to make them compact. RTX 4050 mobile with 30w maybe. Should keep it cool I guess
Is shield TV Pro still the best TV Box? I bought new Samsung TV with gaming apps and GeForce NOW in appstore. I will still use my Nvidia Shield Pro for streaming content and playing games. I get better gaming resolution on Nvidia Shield, Better colors and Nvidia Shield feels allot faster. Even the remote control is 100 times better having much stronger signal. I dont know about the handhelds but the world is entering in to the cloud gaming dimention where people wont need consoles to enjoy playing computer games. Whats your thoughts on that people, and did anyone find a better TV box then Nvidia Shield TV Pro? Please comment because this is a burning topic in my head and I need to know what others think and what others discovered.
I don't think Nvidia is interested in reselling Intel or AMD CPUs. They'd more likely stick with their own ARM CPUs, especially with Windows' ARM support picking up with the upcoming Snapdragon X Elite (or just keep printing money replacing us with AI).
You do understand that this market is too small for them? It is probably even small for AMD but is good marketing. How many units of all models except Steam Deck have been sold in total? Less than a million probably. And even Steam does not have the numbers that would push chip companies rush to bring even better SoCs. We will see what AMD Halo Strix brings with 16CU, should be around 30-50% faster than existing 780m.
I would love to see Nvidia's Orin In either a Handheld, a 13 inch Android Tablet/laptop like Samsung's 14inch, or something in between. It doesn't need much: - an Oled - SD Card Reader up to 2 TB - USB4.0 (either side) - Good dual or quad speakers - Wifi 6 or 7 For a Handheld, an 8 inch tablet would be nice, but they could just make a generic one with a handheld that fits with it, like they did with their last tablet, just engineer the controller a bit and showcase it alongside the Ayaneo
Oh. Frame generation and DLSS is working better on higher resolutions. So it's much better to upscale 1080p to 4K, than 480p to 1080p, because you will lose details and clarity.
The trouble with x86 is there is really only two choices, either Intel or AMD, there use to be Cyrix years ago, but they are nowhere to be seen nowadays, so partnering up for a x86 solution is off the cards, that leaves ARM, and with how far ahead the Nvidia Tegra was in 2015 compared to other ARM SoC's, and MS claim their latest x86 emulation layer for ARM is better than Apple's. Nvidia will already have a chipset ready for the Switch 2, and according to rumours from the Verge last year both AMD and Nvidia are working on ARM based SoC's for Windows which could be a better fit for a next gen handheld Windows device.
What noone here seems to understand is that even the best AMD Apu has a pretty shit iGPU. I don't like Nvidia either but they make the most efficient GPUs at this time. A rtx 4050 equivalent would be great for a handheld. It would be wayyyy more powerful than any iGPU at even 20watts. Then add a low powered 6 or 8 Core AMD CPU and it's the best handheld. Ayaneo already sells stuff at 1300usd so that could be the price to beat. Unlike other APU powered handhelds, this one would actually be able to run games at 1080 ultra, instead of low/med. Plus it would be able to run even more displays.
as much as i want nvidia to make x86 cpu/apu it wouldnt be happen soon. they already tried back in early 2000 but intel reject the x86 license ask by Nvidia, intel saw nvidia as a good partner ( Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU in one system) but not as a good competitor ( whole CPU/GPU build by nvidia). do you know back then nvidia used to make nforce chipset for amd and intel cpu? but later intel forbid external chipset all intel mainboard needs intel chipset ( thats why they create Intel management engine ) Nvidia try to buy cyprus who already had x86 license but intel revoke their license also. even when intel release their 15 watts intel atom cpu around 2008 nvidia still wants to create custom chip, Atom+nvidia gpu target for portable mobile gaming ( low powered cpu but powerfull gpu to compete agaisnt PSP and Nintendo 3ds) but again intel refuse that offer. thats why we never got intel atom laptop with external gpu ( i know they target 15 watt for portable but dont you think nvidia cant make low power gpu? ) thats why when ARM getting more attention during android mobile phone rise nvidia jump in with their tegra apu ( ARM let everybody bulid their own cpu). and if you remember back then nvidia shield could compete agaisnt ps3 graphic on portable mobile device with less than 15watt apu ( ps3 runs at 100watt) even top qualcom, mediatek, apple bionic cpu fall behind and need about 4-5 years to catch up with what nvidia tegra could offer in terms of mobile graphics. ARM is growing strong these days, windows even support ARM cpu natively. if there is a new apu from nvidia i bet it would be ARM based
Does anyone remember the one razer did with the razer edge and pro version a long time ago. Not the current android one but with a dual core intel cpu with a gt 630m or 730m le gpu
C'mon ETA, we have enough influencers pushing ngreedia hardware down our throats for you to do this . Hell, this video wording sounds like a paid hit piece against AMD. A shame that you decided to ignore their long story of abusing the market with proprietary crap like Physx, Gameworks AMD now DLSS. Hating open source, open standards and even their own customers. Shame on you.
I feel like we will see this... but a bit less powerful and it will have "nintendo" printed on it... but also it will be ARM instead of x86. You know who would probably LOVE to make a $1k x86 gaming handheld with Nvidia? Razer.
Nvidia would probably make a arm based Handheld with a custom Linux based os, Android os or maybe even Windows (if the X86 emulation get's faster). Nvidia themselves don't use X86 in consumer hardware or even Servers lately.
I thought only AMD and Intel had licence for x86 (x64) chips. So would need to be arm based. Intel would want to push its own GPU tech which has its own upscaling so doubt this will happen... though qualcomm x suggests we might get ARM windows soon :)
this is so unlikely at technical, price, and politics reasons which is the reason for the Nvidia Shield, Arm handheld not x86. In addition, Intel is no slouch to low end graphics hardware. If there is any possibility it would be a huge handheld like 10-15 inches which involves Intel/AMD CPU with a discrete Nvidia GPU like how laptops are made.
If you're talking being tied to the Windows OS, an Intel/Nvidia based handheld would ideal. If you wanted an alternative OS like SteamOS, ChimeraOS or Bazzite OS, you'd run into issues since Nvidia drivers are cumbersome to install and suffers from some performance issues with screen tearing I could never fix when using it on a Linux distro.
Intel CPU's are too power inefficient especially in the handheld market. The MSI flaw shows how poor it is lol. Recently Intel processors have been hampering Nvidia RTX GPU's with issues. There's even videos telling people to stay away from Intel.
We do not need nvidia to make handhelds. If they did, they would price the handhelds at 2x the value of other handhelds, dumb idiots would still buy them, which would allow for other handhelds to put absurd price tags on their own hardware. This is exactly what is going on with GPUs. Nvidia upped the value and decreased performance across the board, people still buy them, same crap applies here. Look at intel for an example, they knew msi claw was gonna be garbage, yet it is priced higher than ally z1 extreme which is the direct competitor. Nvidia would do the same, the only key difference is that they would most likely offer the best handheld in the market in terms of performance and tech, but having that means other problems for other handhelds, problems related to the consumer side, not the developers. Having nvidia at this point is the equivalent to asking to have apple join in on the fun, apple would do exactly that too, probably even worst than nvidia. What we need is intel, amd and qualcomm (snapdragon) to duke it out for the handheld market. AMD is planning to not improve APUs from 2024 to 2027, so it gives intel a chance to catch up and offer something decent for once down the road. As for qualcomm, if they can actually deliver a nice performing piece of hardware at a decent price, i'm down... My issue with qualcomm would be drivers, since they are mostly android and are now getting into windows market, it would probably lack proper drivers to run extremelly good.
Nvidia hasn't been focused on low powered stuff and it shows. Their current gen RTX stuff isn't really all that power efficient compared to how much AMD and even Intel have improved on that front. Not saying they couldn't do it, just that it(and gaming in general) doesn't seem to be Nvidia's priority right now.
I noticed that you are using a 6gb 3050 which has an anemic memory bus of 92bit. This shouldn't be a thing on a dedicated gpu, we would see even better performance on a 8gb 3050 which has a 128bit bus.
X86 Nvidia handheld? Hell no. Arm Nvidia handheld? Sounds amazing, if the price is right. I want to see a brand new, uncrippled Arm handheld. I'm hoping Qualcomm gets the ball rolling for the market to go Arm.
lets face it, If Nvidia went this path, it would be an updated Tegra. They wouldn't do an x86. Now would a 3rd party do an x86 with Intel/Nvidia? yes. That is very likely.
To me, Windows handheld are no-go. The operating system and hardware are not for a handheld. Last time I was looking for a handheld held to play games while resting in bed after work, I looked at the available Windows handhelds and thought: Why wouldn’t I buy a gaming laptop for the same money instead? And then, why wouldn’t I build a desktop for the same money since I already have a monitor, keyboard and mouse? Oh, I was looking for a handheld. Then I bought myself a Nintendo Switch, and I’m still happy with my decision😂
No, AMD has captured the consumer market, consoles, and Nvidia has captured the enterprise market. AI. so I don't see Nvidia focusing on spending effort trying to compete with AMD. In fact their product lines are diverging more and more away from desktop graphics.
Power draw/performance AMD cpu is much more efficient then Intel Cpu. Amd cpu is currently the best option. If we have separate Gpu Nividia is better choice much less power hungry then Amd
If this actually happened, I just want one thing no Windows. They should come up with their own OS or partner with somebody just like Orange Pi is doing with Manjaro.
There really isn't enough space in a handheld to add a whole nVidia dgpu and the cooling system to support it without making an absolute BRICK of a device. So I think the best option right now Is for people to get comfortable with the devices we currently have, and really support them. Because this will incentivize manufacturers to not abandon the form factor. Valve will keep working with AMD on a real generational improvement at a similar tdp as they likely have been. And AMD will work on their own in conjunction with other partners like Asus and Lenovo, for iterative increases in performance for yearly refreshes. and this category as long as we keep supporting it, should keep game developers grounded a little bit. With a target hardware spec to reach for good performance. Great on Deck is where it started, I think we need to keep that in mind, that the steam deck needs to lead the charge. 800P at Medium to High settings needs to be the baseline of good performance on the steam deck, and new games need to hit that target. Other Handhelds can beat that target or whatever, but we need to push for game developers to meet this baseline, so that these other premium handhelds can have a better experience as 'premium' handhelds. To keep the market healthy, and drive for innovation both in the software and hardware space.
The reason why I personally think this will never happen is because Nvidia continues to lose to AMD for price to performance at low to mid tier. A Nvidia handheld would be shut down by Nvidia itself. The chips are there, Nvidia just doesn't care
If you look how far android phones (and vr headsets) have come in performance, I don't really see a point for a handheld with a discreet Nvidia gpu. A snapdragon 8 gen3 with a cooler has enough horsepower to emulate pretty demanding PC games.
Yes just what we need a $2500 handheld.
Yea he said all of that but missed the main point of something like that existing lol.
The price would be a back breaker so it wouldn't sell.
@@killahki Or it would sell enough to hike the prices of hand held pcs.
Nha the n100 cpu from Intel is down to 140usd for a complete mini pc. Match that with a small gpu in the pci3 (m.2 port) and you would have the system talked about here.
@@impuls60 Performance wise that's an 11yo cpu at best.
You can get a 5500U laptop for 400-500 euros (this is taxed btw).
Yeah, with 15 minutes of battery.
More handhelds are definitely needed. The current available 167 models are lacking
To be fair, about 100ish (rough estimate) are just from Ayaneo. But, yeah, we need fewer variations and more actual performance and battery competitors to the deck.
With many of them with the same chips.
they are lacking because fsr 2.2 and 3.0 looks like crap at lower res, hopefully fsr 3.1 could finally be good enough for upscaling at any resolution below 1440p base resolution
@@jeofthevirtuoussand These things have 7-8" screens. I don't know how anybody could see the difference without pausing the game and holding the console right up to their face. DLSS vs FSR vs XeSS matters a lot more on a desktop-sized 4k screen or a TV. Honestly, so long as it looks better than regular non-native resolution scaling on an LCD/OLED, who really cares? What really matters is getting more efficient SoCs regardless of which GPU manufacturer you're waving the flag for. Right now, the Steam Deck is the only thing which provides usable battery life and a good compromise between wattage and performance. It doesn't matter that my ROG Ally has better performance (although possibly not frame pacing) at 25w when it's lucky to last an hour.
Yeah, that is exactly what I thought too. So, I am starting a KickStarter and will make a new model. Much,much better than all these. It will have at least 0.5 FPS better performance !
Price wise it will be great value.
Gpd was the OGs who single handedly revived the handheld pc market, they didn't "jump on" because of the steam deck.. it's the opposite.
Valve has been working on the steam deck for years, even before GPD released their first handheld. Also, to be fair, most people didn't even know what GPD was. As much as I hate to say this, the handheld community was saved because of the switch. Then, when the Steam Deck came out, all these other companies started releasing their own handhelds.
But GPD is an OG for sure and has been in the games since the beginning!
GPD did not revive handhelds, they were the first to jump on the train. Also does not mean they were the first to develop the idea.
@@MrRunItUp lol stop saying bs
@@francistein8409 gpd was never first
_But It Was Popular!_ @@acwbit2368
Which Encourage Other Company To Do The Same! We Would Never Have AYANEO And AOKZOE, ROG, VALVE, And Etc In The Handheld Market If No One Give A Care About Handheld!
Ayaneo Might've Also Help The Handheld Market Rise Since They're Competing With GPD At The Time.
See the thing is Nvidia doesn't give a crap about the lower end gaming market
what about the switch? but yes gpu market is insane. the budget category just died out…
@@lucasmancini2 Yeah that would be different because that's not Nvidia caring about the budget market that's just getting money from Nintendo
@@jt3000o sure they do, their lower end cards are their biggest sellers
Nvidia and Intel lost with AMD in Handheld Devices
Nvidia is only worried about AI. I think Nintendo is still working with them on the Switch 2. But outside that Nviidia is only an AI company now. They are pushing into self driving cars and tech like that. Yes Nvidia will probably make GPUs but outside that. Their business is outside "gaming" products.
I do agree with that but it's not just NVIDIA per se, but also their directors, sponsors and shareholders who's last game they played probably dates back to the Atari 2600 days.
If Jensen Huang wants to remain the CEO of NVIDIA, he needs to sing the song of AI and get the likes of AWS, Microsoft, Google and Oracle to spend hundreds of billions combined so they can be happy. Otherwise he gets ousted as CEO, and honestly I rather prefer Jensen as the CEO, rather than some ghoul that would focus ONLY on AI.
Almost commented and this sums it up
100%
nope you dont need it.
We already have one. It's called the Nintendo Switch 😁
Maybe not modern per se, but a Switch 2 is coming, hopefully using the latest Nvidia mobile chipset.
Not the mobile one, but a custom one based upon their Jetson lineup of embedded SoCs.
@@RockstarRomania Right, I figured it would be custom, but still based on a mobile chipset, naturally. It's not going to use desktop hardware.
I don't think Nvidia would waste their fab time on a handheld when AMD clearly dominates it. Their profits on the enterprise side absolutely dominate the gaming sector.
I still have my Nvidia Shield 'Portable' and the Nvidia Shield Tablet with cellular :)
But why? they could put out a amd cpu/nvidia gpu combo. Just like my laptop: ryzen 7 5800h / rtx 3070
@@lucasmancini2 amd laptop dominance was the greatest gen of laptops the price fell and machines run cooled. But amd and nvidea handled would be too hot to handle and too little space.
@ETA PRIME - Hopefully this comment gets to you! I am curious about this, as I think you should also try downclocking the Intel P-cores in conjunction with disabling them like you did. Intel's Turbo clockspeeds really, and I mean REALLY ramp up the power consumption. I would wager that actually having 2 P-cores and 6 E-cores active, with clamping the P-cores at 4.5GHz and the E-cores at 3.5GHz would give better perf and decrease overall CPU power.
So Nvidia already put out an incredible PC gaming potable though Razer, the Razer Edge Pro, which was incredible, an absolute powerhouse that still outperforms even the Steam Deck in some areas thanks to its native dedicated GPU and 2GB GDDR5 VRAM, but the thing is, we don't actually need a whole discrete GPU to get a massive performance boost, what we need is a proper full-fat APU, an actual APU, as per the original specs of what separates and APU from an iGPU or SoC, it on DIE VRAM, this would give 2.5 to 4 times the performance out of the gate, in fact, even if AMD added just a modest 1GB on DIE eDRAM cache to their current iGPU line-up along with a fast-inter-connect between system RAM, we would see at least a double FPS uplift, minimum frames would more than double, and if they combine this with a hardware line-double IC, we would get another 2x performance increase from that.
That said, if Nvidia did get involved with say the Steam Deck 2, I'd imagine they would use their ADA or Lovelace Tegra dGPU, Intel have worked with AMD before to make the most powerful APU complete with discrete 4GB of HBM2 VRAM, which is still a monster performer, so it would be an Intel/Tegra Hybrid APU I'd imagine.
There's a little problem: Nvidia doesn't own x86 license, unlike AMD or Intel. The arm platform isn't able to handle AAA games (the strongest arm chip, the Qualcomm Snapdragon Elite X isn't dealing 30 FPS in baldurs gate in low setting). And that's on a $1700 machine....
nvdia arm gaming handheld that are not switch or the outdated shield.. we need.
I would like for a new Nvidia Shield TV Pro.
Windows ain't there yet
Yupppp
@kirby21-xz4rx we dont need windows, windows sucks, put linux on there, preferable steam / proton
@@SWOTHDRA
Yeah, that's my issue with the Legion Go.
The best thing about the Steam Deck is the SteamOS. Without that, they lose a whole lot.
Steamdeck 450$
Rog ally 799
Legion go 799
Msi claw 799
NVIDIA 5000$
Apple 12999$
Customer: How much Nvidia? Nvidia: Yes.
I was really disappointed with msi. I tought it would be budget but its actually more expensive and it delivers less power. We need a handheld that is reasonable
so u want an intel cpu and a nvidia gpu in a handheld, it will have worse battery than the msi claw, theres a reason nvidia made an arm chip and its the best way still.
I don't want Nvidia to do X86. I'm Hoping that they do a pretty decently powerful ARM powered chip for a handheld. We've already seen great leaps in performance from apples a17 pro. So if they can make something similar or even better, I'll be happy😊
Maybe they can find a partner to make something between the GPU part of their Orin SoC (should be in the Switch 2) and a trimmed down RTX 4050 (in 700-800$ laptop right now). The RTX 3050 6GB is not that efficient, and that CPU was at full power all the time in your tests. They should do better than that.
What we need is faster RAM 8500mt+ and more CU's from AMD. If Nvidia can compete in the handheld TDP, then all the well, otherwise it's no loss.
We need ARM
They need a new Nvidia shield tv with the RTX chipset, that would blow all android boxes out the water
I'm not optimistic. But if they announce a new shield, maybe it would be more likely to happen after the switch2?
L🤭L A bit late for the Nvidia x86 April fool 🃏
Nvidia just needs to bring back the Tegra SoC series.
what I'd like to see, is if they're gonna go ARM then they should take the kind of chip they're using for their new server CPU cores
Yup
Nintendo has Nvidia, so this handheld says a lot about future announcements of a new Nintendo console!
dlss is a must for handheld , and its even better docked , because dlss makes it worth using a 1440p monitor , lock the framerate to 40 fps
why 40 fps?
because 40 fps is a massive step up from 30 fps , and it literally the middle ground between 30 fps and 60 fps ,
60 fps =16.6667 ms
40 fps = 25 ms
30 fps = 33.3333 ms
the difference between 16.667 ms and 25 ms is around 8.3 ms,
the difference between 33.333 ms and 25 ms is around 8.3 ms.
from 40 to 60 fps you would need ((( 20 fps to gain 8.3 ms ))) ,
from 30 to 40 fps you would need ((( 10 fps to gain 8.3 ms )))
Project Zet(if I'm not wrong) is x86 open source, could it be Nvidia will create and design chip cpu based on architecture x86?, who knows? 🤷♂️
Nope, ARM, x86 is trash
@@SWOTHDRA well AMD use ARM to enhance x86, so could Nvidia use it for compatibility and enhance their architecture, who knows man who knows? 🤷♂️
More competition is always better. Intel already did something like this with Kaby Lake-G (Intel CPU with AMD iGPU). Something like that with Nvidia GPU will be interesting.
Not just any GPU, but an AMD Vega GPU that was comparable to an GTX 1060 back then.
.
In the Commercial sector ARM chips are becoming more and more useful and prevalent, but butting up against a lack of experience from the developers of companies who want to adopt them and the lack of smooth interpolation between the existing x86 architecture and ARM. Apple has already tried to tackle this issue with their chips and has done well although they have a ways to go. Nvidia is very good at optimizing software and I suspect a byproduct of the AI gold rush will be much more advanced ARM chips and conversion layers to x86 in software (possibly hardware accelerated).
Because Ai is currently 80% of their revenue I suspect they will not partner on any custom x86 or ARM processors for a specific device. However it is very likely they won't forget their still 12 billion dollar a year GPU market (20% of revenue) when they have all this new ARM tech to pass along to it. The Tegra chips that eventually went into switches were in phones, Audi Stereos and Tesla visual sensors along the way. Because of this I expect an ARM based handheld with an Nvidia GPU down the line that leverages all the work they are doing in the AI space to remove the downfalls of ARM compatibility while utilizing its amazing power performance. I also expect it to be a partnership rather than Nvidia branded due to the AI distraction.
i looks like nvidia dont really care about gaming so ill bet on that and i dont think it will beat amd.AMD is very invested in the console market like playstation and now the handheld console
I'll be waiting another 1-2 years for a better handheld to release
Considering tehnology evolves faster and faster each year, i wont be surprised if the managed to fit an rtx 4090m in one of these (or equivalent)
No thanks
With US$175 for expend in Amazon witch retro handheld wild you recommended?
Nope, no no no. No x86 🙅♂
When Nvidia enters the PC SoC space, it will be with a single chip, in-house design with Arm cores. There's no other option.
Linux/Windows on Arm + a deep software investment from Nvidia will produce great things 😊
Has anyone successfully launched a handheld with a discrete GPU? My Acer Nitro 5 laptop has an i5-12500H coupled with a mobile RTX 3050 ti. That would be more than enough for a handheld if they could engineer it down into a handheld form factor.
An Nvidia handheld would contradict Nvidia's business model; of to just keep not innovating the same old ways, to allow speculative and extortionist prices, for anything computer related, at the global market.
Plus, most Nvidia product architecture, is electrically power inefficient; from its already AutoCAD design drawing.
The Nvidia handheld console idea, is only somehow an entertaining theme, for a basic ytb video, about computer technology.
Nvidia knows nothing about battery life or power consumption. They pump out GPU"s that just eat through the watts. A handheld powered by Nvidia would never exist until they can build efficient cores that can conserve power and Nvidia isn't about to give up their top tier rank reducing their power consumption. Who knows what the future holds. 5th Gen RTX may hold better watt to performance numbers but I doubt it will be enough to stuff in a compact power efficient package.
Rt and tensor cores are hardware and demand power, having a separeted cpu then would go opposite side of power eficiency for a handheld battery...
The more capabilities the more power it will require there is no magic giving you all the features and way more performance in a handheld format. And not like current iGPU are memory limited, while adding dedicated VRAM increases power draw while adding HBM would also inflate price. Intel cores are quite power hungry but good. Also advocating a proprietary technology is not the best option.
An unpopular opinion, but just give the finger to Nintendo when they bring out the switch and encourage some hardware hackers to make a linux (debian, arch, puppy, etc.) image for the device and have your nvidia handheld.
ETA prime is only one who can afford it. UA-camr money 🤡
Qualcomm has the exclusivity for windows on arm until end 2024 so if nvidia wanted a windows handheld it couldn’t launched yet.
Hopefully a new handheld in 2025 with mediatek.
What i would like to see:
- Windows 12
- ARM
- 8" 2160p 144Hz OLED VRR
- 32GB shared ram
- 8W handheld (only mode)
- 20W+ docked
- 40Wh+ battery
- Detachable controllers
- 1TB SSD
- Dock with pcie slot to expand storage when docked
- VR accessories (like Pimax Portal VR Kit)
- Best chip possible for 8W handheld gaming and 20W (or more if possible) docked gaming
Windows belongs in the bin
Bro 8 w is trash, more like 80w handheld and 300 wh battery
@@Nefirim Maybe The Rock would find that comfortable
Preferred modified RTX 5050/5060. They would need to implement some great cooling.
Lots of AMD fanboys in here. I welcome all competition and go with what’s better. I don’t understand how you can have an allegiance to a corporation.
If battery life matters, Intel is not the way to go. Given their experience, Nvidia will likely go ARM on their own. But if x86 is needed, they might have a sweet deal with AMD.
well tha will workout with a GTX 1060 of 8Gb DDR 6, or maybe a GTX 1660 gb DDR 6, orrrr RTX 3050 or a custom RTX 3040. 3030
the Ideal specs for a handheld PC worth buying:
CPU: Intel i9 14th gen
GPU: Nvidia 4090 RTX
RAM: 128GB
Storage: 16TB with 4 microSD slots
Screen: 10" 8K QLED screen with wacom quality touch capabilities & a wacom style drawing stylus
Battery: at least 10 hrs. for gameplay
Audio: 2 audio jacks
Face Buttons: 6 button set up (A,B,C,X,Y,Z) & 3 shoulder buttons on each side.
Additional: NO PADDLE BUTTONS ON THE BACK OF THE GRIPS!!! & non braded cables. signature wireless controller, mouse, & keyboard as standard accessories.
Oh... I thought Nvidia was making something cool for gamers for a sec.
When the Razer Edge came out 10 years ago that was pretty cool and had an nVidea gpu.
Great video, as usual!
What I would like to see as a handheld? I am already blown away from what they are now!
But, I'm working on building myself a laptop dock for my Samsung Galaxy Z-Fold 5 with parts I had lying around from dead laptops... One feature I wanted to add was a Raspberry Pi 5 8GB to act as alternate computing (when I use my phone any other way).
I was wondering what could be a good (or great) alternate to the Raspberry Pi... For example: I thought about the Mainboard of the Framework laptop 13... but it's 500-1000$ (canadian)... I would be looking more or less like the Raspberry Pi pricing (twice could be considered around the top limit...)
Are there miniPC that are abordable, preferably AMD (for Ryzen), and comes only as the mainboard (i.e.: no box or enclosure)?
Thanks
Yo
I don't know about you, but.. Nvidia handheld would be as slow as my laptop with RTX on it... Every single laptop with Nvidia I had was slow, leggy, and it felt like it was carrying a block. I'm not kidding, I went full AMD with the Ally z1e, and I can finally use my pc without legs. by the way, Nvidia never fixed the control panel leg. Personal experience, since 2015.
Currently APUs have quite good theoretical performance. Only thing holding them back is slow memory and memory bandwidth is just not big enough at the moment
Absolutely. I don't think enough credit is given to how impressive they really are. If they had GDDR6 or hell GDDR6 dedicated memory set aside for the APU it would be considerably faster.
Nvidia should do something completely different from x86. Go full ARM, Linux based OS with support for Windows on ARM. If Apple can pull off the x86 experience on ARM, why can't Nvidia? With the likes of WINE, Proton and Box86 existing, it feels like a lot of the legwork has been done already.
I mean, if you look at how some of their laptop chips perform at low wattage, it's certainly doable. Look at the RTX 4070 mobile used in the Asus Z/X13, running at 45W. I'm sure if nvidia could be bothered, they could present a GPU fit for a handheld that punches hard. But hey, like that's gonna happen anytime soon.
Maybe that would ignite a fire udner AMDs ass to release new GPU architectures for APUs a bit more frequent.
Unless Nvidia starts making X86 CPUs, the power draw of 2 chips instead of just one would be a lot higher.
Most powerful? Sure. It will also have the worst battery life or be way bulkier to compensate.
FSR 3.1 will likely close the gap with DLSS. I’m extremely happy with my Steam Deck and I love SteamOS. I can’t see ever wanting a Windows based handheld.
As Windows on ARM likely is gonna get a boost (Snapdragon X) it think its mouch more plausible Nvidia would make a ARM-SOC. They alsohave in house Teams working on such things. So i thinks itˋs very unlikely we will see a X86 Nvidia Handheld. Also there war a Laptop showcase some Time ago, where Nvidia Teamed up with MediaTek to get a ARM und Nvidia GPU POC running on Linux.
Apple's m3 max gives roughly the same performance as a laptop rtx 4070, but with an entire chip power draw at maybe 65 watts. The apple iGPU probably never tops 40 watts. Meanwhile the 4070 laptop needs over 100 watts alone. This isn't an ARM vs CISC thing, so what's going on? The M2 iPad, fan less, has more GPU oomph than the steamdeck
i dont know about nvidia working on a handheld beside nintendo, but this : they are going to release "low voltage" desktop PC's CPUs contender to apple's M3 (more likely an arm64 format). but you know that means, ANYBODY, any brands just like how it goes with AMD Z1 extreme, it will be picked up by many of those brands. there WILL BE nvidia based handheld, albeit third parties. and you know how nvidia is with graphic departments. this is likely to happen in the near future.
Nvidia really isn't that interested in this market segment, they're not interested in gaming all that much anymore period. Unlikely to ever happen, plus they really don't have anything that scales to the low-end of laptop dGPUs anymore, what used to be media chips a step above iGPUs. Nvidia's only concern is AI, any other market segment gets sloppy seconds.
Next-gen is seeing how Xe2 or Xe3 scales down. RDNA3+ is going to be on APUs for quite some time, 2027 iirc is the current roadmap, and 3+ won't have much benefit over 3. The only alternative is that any of these companies get a clue and ditch the APU for a dGPU package, or get AMD to spin off the Z series as a hybrid chip, shared substrate, similar to what Kaby Lake G was, or getting Intel to do similar with a proper Xe package with whatever their mobile chips are going to be named now under the new Core namings. Outside of this, AMD has chosen to stagnate this year, and their iGPU decision to retain RDNA3+ for so long is part of this stagnation, Intel can very quickly the better solution because Radeon team has had their thumbs up their ass for the better part of a decade, and the Zen team is slowing down, plus mobile chips were already a generation behind desktop chips but that's now looking like a two year gap. AMD is dropping the ball and will absolutely lose this market if they're not careful.
Then we also have what's about to happen with ARM, considering everyone on the CPU side is interested, this might push for better developments on the GPU side. This is the only point that Nvidia might spin off a new chip for this. This is the point where Qualcomm might spin up a new desktop-class GPU to go with their newer desktop-class CPU for an SOC for this market segment. Plus the relevant market, Nintendo is overdue for a new switch, consoles are going into gen 10 and Microsoft is making a decision on x86 or ARM, etc. I mean just look at the comparison between Qualcomm's top-end and Apple's M series, there's a massive gap between the two and we all know Apple won't be producing the best option.
Personally, I don't see the point in an x86 handheld, it's too inefficient to make sense. I'd rather just wait for an ARM device than deal with the downsides of x86. Change is finally coming, just hopefully sooner than later.
But as per usual, ETA has some bad takes, like how the Steam Deck revolutionized everything and suddenly the handheld market exists because of them; while GPD has been around for quite some time and is using older chassis designs on newer models. I wouldn't expect this sellout to understand Nvidia's position in any of this, nor what AMD is now doing; can't wait until the 'AMD 8000 series is SO MUCH FASTER than 7000 series' video, when the silicon is quite literally the same CPU and GPU with a minor update to the NPU, or did that already happen? You can't properly speculate anything if you're uneducated on the topic, and the only thing ETA knows is to shill whoever is paying him this week.
nvidia is almost as bad as intel and that's the real reason they don't have one or a console design in many years. not only are their smaller lower end GPU's trash compared to AMD's, only floating on blind zealotry and ignorance to sell. the RTX 2050 mobile which the Switch 2 SoC will likely have pretty much the same GPU is a 30W GPU alone on Samsung 8nm so Switch 2 will have to downclock or cut down the GPU, falling further behind the Radeon 780M iGPU in the Rog Ally and other laptop chips. Switch 2 is using 8nm and not an advanced node. Not much can be done beside downclocking/cut down. And how well does an AMR A78 compare to Zen 4?
It's better if they don't. It will be a disaster if they made an x86 chip because they have 0 experiance. Just look at intel, they fell behind and have been unable to compete with AMD when it comes to power efficiency, playing forever catch-up. AMD is the expert in APU power efficiency, they have been getting big power efficiency improvements even before Zen with their excavator apus. The best nvidia can do is ARM designs and they aren't even the best at that. Switch 2 isn't even out yet and it can't even compete with current APUs let alone Strix Point APUs coming out in August. And it's not just the CPU side, the GPU of the APU is extremely power efficient. There is a reason nvidia killed their MX series low power gpus, their 25-30W GPUs couldn't compete with 15-25W APUs, and needed 50W to even match 35W APUs and that doesn't include the extra power of the CPU it was paired with.
Just keep the traditional laptop hardwares for Nvidia handheld. Nvidia mobile dgpu with AMD/Intel mobile cpu, soldered on board ram to make them compact. RTX 4050 mobile with 30w maybe. Should keep it cool I guess
Is shield TV Pro still the best TV Box? I bought new Samsung TV with gaming apps and GeForce NOW in appstore. I will still use my Nvidia Shield Pro for streaming content and playing games. I get better gaming resolution on Nvidia Shield, Better colors and Nvidia Shield feels allot faster. Even the remote control is 100 times better having much stronger signal. I dont know about the handhelds but the world is entering in to the cloud gaming dimention where people wont need consoles to enjoy playing computer games. Whats your thoughts on that people, and did anyone find a better TV box then Nvidia Shield TV Pro? Please comment because this is a burning topic in my head and I need to know what others think and what others discovered.
I don't think Nvidia is interested in reselling Intel or AMD CPUs. They'd more likely stick with their own ARM CPUs, especially with Windows' ARM support picking up with the upcoming Snapdragon X Elite (or just keep printing money replacing us with AI).
You do understand that this market is too small for them? It is probably even small for AMD but is good marketing.
How many units of all models except Steam Deck have been sold in total? Less than a million probably.
And even Steam does not have the numbers that would push chip companies rush to bring even better SoCs.
We will see what AMD Halo Strix brings with 16CU, should be around 30-50% faster than existing 780m.
I would love to see Nvidia's Orin In either a Handheld, a 13 inch Android Tablet/laptop like Samsung's 14inch, or something in between.
It doesn't need much:
- an Oled
- SD Card Reader up to 2 TB
- USB4.0 (either side)
- Good dual or quad speakers
- Wifi 6 or 7
For a Handheld, an 8 inch tablet would be nice, but they could just make a generic one with a handheld that fits with it, like they did with their last tablet, just engineer the controller a bit and showcase it alongside the Ayaneo
Oh. Frame generation and DLSS is working better on higher resolutions. So it's much better to upscale 1080p to 4K, than 480p to 1080p, because you will lose details and clarity.
The trouble with x86 is there is really only two choices, either Intel or AMD, there use to be Cyrix years ago, but they are nowhere to be seen nowadays, so partnering up for a x86 solution is off the cards, that leaves ARM, and with how far ahead the Nvidia Tegra was in 2015 compared to other ARM SoC's, and MS claim their latest x86 emulation layer for ARM is better than Apple's.
Nvidia will already have a chipset ready for the Switch 2, and according to rumours from the Verge last year both AMD and Nvidia are working on ARM based SoC's for Windows which could be a better fit for a next gen handheld Windows device.
What noone here seems to understand is that even the best AMD Apu has a pretty shit iGPU.
I don't like Nvidia either but they make the most efficient GPUs at this time.
A rtx 4050 equivalent would be great for a handheld.
It would be wayyyy more powerful than any iGPU at even 20watts.
Then add a low powered 6 or 8 Core AMD CPU and it's the best handheld.
Ayaneo already sells stuff at 1300usd so that could be the price to beat.
Unlike other APU powered handhelds, this one would actually be able to run games at 1080 ultra, instead of low/med.
Plus it would be able to run even more displays.
as much as i want nvidia to make x86 cpu/apu it wouldnt be happen soon. they already tried back in early 2000 but intel reject the x86 license ask by Nvidia, intel saw nvidia as a good partner ( Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU in one system) but not as a good competitor ( whole CPU/GPU build by nvidia). do you know back then nvidia used to make nforce chipset for amd and intel cpu? but later intel forbid external chipset all intel mainboard needs intel chipset ( thats why they create Intel management engine ) Nvidia try to buy cyprus who already had x86 license but intel revoke their license also. even when intel release their 15 watts intel atom cpu around 2008 nvidia still wants to create custom chip, Atom+nvidia gpu target for portable mobile gaming ( low powered cpu but powerfull gpu to compete agaisnt PSP and Nintendo 3ds) but again intel refuse that offer. thats why we never got intel atom laptop with external gpu ( i know they target 15 watt for portable but dont you think nvidia cant make low power gpu? ) thats why when ARM getting more attention during android mobile phone rise nvidia jump in with their tegra apu ( ARM let everybody bulid their own cpu). and if you remember back then nvidia shield could compete agaisnt ps3 graphic on portable mobile device with less than 15watt apu ( ps3 runs at 100watt) even top qualcom, mediatek, apple bionic cpu fall behind and need about 4-5 years to catch up with what nvidia tegra could offer in terms of mobile graphics. ARM is growing strong these days, windows even support ARM cpu natively. if there is a new apu from nvidia i bet it would be ARM based
it COUDLN'T happen... it would USE TOO MUCH POWER!!!! The BATTERY would be the SIZE of a SHOW BOX!
Does anyone remember the one razer did with the razer edge and pro version a long time ago. Not the current android one but with a dual core intel cpu with a gt 630m or 730m le gpu
C'mon ETA, we have enough influencers pushing ngreedia hardware down our throats for you to do this .
Hell, this video wording sounds like a paid hit piece against AMD.
A shame that you decided to ignore their long story of abusing the market with proprietary crap like Physx, Gameworks AMD now DLSS.
Hating open source, open standards and even their own customers.
Shame on you.
I feel like we will see this... but a bit less powerful and it will have "nintendo" printed on it... but also it will be ARM instead of x86. You know who would probably LOVE to make a $1k x86 gaming handheld with Nvidia? Razer.
Nvidia would probably make a arm based Handheld with a custom Linux based os, Android os or maybe even Windows (if the X86 emulation get's faster).
Nvidia themselves don't use X86 in consumer hardware or even Servers lately.
I thought only AMD and Intel had licence for x86 (x64) chips. So would need to be arm based. Intel would want to push its own GPU tech which has its own upscaling so doubt this will happen... though qualcomm x suggests we might get ARM windows soon :)
this is so unlikely at technical, price, and politics reasons which is the reason for the Nvidia Shield, Arm handheld not x86. In addition, Intel is no slouch to low end graphics hardware. If there is any possibility it would be a huge handheld like 10-15 inches which involves Intel/AMD CPU with a discrete Nvidia GPU like how laptops are made.
If you're talking being tied to the Windows OS, an Intel/Nvidia based handheld would ideal. If you wanted an alternative OS like SteamOS, ChimeraOS or Bazzite OS, you'd run into issues since Nvidia drivers are cumbersome to install and suffers from some performance issues with screen tearing I could never fix when using it on a Linux distro.
Intel CPU's are too power inefficient especially in the handheld market. The MSI flaw shows how poor it is lol.
Recently Intel processors have been hampering Nvidia RTX GPU's with issues. There's even videos telling people to stay away from Intel.
We do not need nvidia to make handhelds. If they did, they would price the handhelds at 2x the value of other handhelds, dumb idiots would still buy them, which would allow for other handhelds to put absurd price tags on their own hardware. This is exactly what is going on with GPUs. Nvidia upped the value and decreased performance across the board, people still buy them, same crap applies here.
Look at intel for an example, they knew msi claw was gonna be garbage, yet it is priced higher than ally z1 extreme which is the direct competitor. Nvidia would do the same, the only key difference is that they would most likely offer the best handheld in the market in terms of performance and tech, but having that means other problems for other handhelds, problems related to the consumer side, not the developers.
Having nvidia at this point is the equivalent to asking to have apple join in on the fun, apple would do exactly that too, probably even worst than nvidia.
What we need is intel, amd and qualcomm (snapdragon) to duke it out for the handheld market. AMD is planning to not improve APUs from 2024 to 2027, so it gives intel a chance to catch up and offer something decent for once down the road. As for qualcomm, if they can actually deliver a nice performing piece of hardware at a decent price, i'm down... My issue with qualcomm would be drivers, since they are mostly android and are now getting into windows market, it would probably lack proper drivers to run extremelly good.
Nvidia hasn't been focused on low powered stuff and it shows. Their current gen RTX stuff isn't really all that power efficient compared to how much AMD and even Intel have improved on that front. Not saying they couldn't do it, just that it(and gaming in general) doesn't seem to be Nvidia's priority right now.
I noticed that you are using a 6gb 3050 which has an anemic memory bus of 92bit. This shouldn't be a thing on a dedicated gpu, we would see even better performance on a 8gb 3050 which has a 128bit bus.
X86 Nvidia handheld? Hell no. Arm Nvidia handheld? Sounds amazing, if the price is right. I want to see a brand new, uncrippled Arm handheld. I'm hoping Qualcomm gets the ball rolling for the market to go Arm.
lets face it, If Nvidia went this path, it would be an updated Tegra. They wouldn't do an x86. Now would a 3rd party do an x86 with Intel/Nvidia? yes. That is very likely.
To me, Windows handheld are no-go. The operating system and hardware are not for a handheld. Last time I was looking for a handheld held to play games while resting in bed after work, I looked at the available Windows handhelds and thought: Why wouldn’t I buy a gaming laptop for the same money instead? And then, why wouldn’t I build a desktop for the same money since I already have a monitor, keyboard and mouse? Oh, I was looking for a handheld. Then I bought myself a Nintendo Switch, and I’m still happy with my decision😂
That would be nice, but Nvidia can't design x86 chips, only Intel and AMD are proprietaries of the x86 architecture
Why are you asking to pay $999 RTX & DLSS tax when there's already a cut-throat race for $650 price to performance of handheld market.
No, AMD has captured the consumer market, consoles, and Nvidia has captured the enterprise market. AI. so I don't see Nvidia focusing on spending effort trying to compete with AMD. In fact their product lines are diverging more and more away from desktop graphics.
Power draw/performance AMD cpu is much more efficient then Intel Cpu. Amd cpu is currently the best option. If we have separate Gpu Nividia is better choice much less power hungry then Amd
2nano maximum Cu... 8 teraflop for handheld at 30 watts....with Nvidia
If this actually happened, I just want one thing no Windows. They should come up with their own OS or partner with somebody just like Orange Pi is doing with Manjaro.
An updated tegra soc. I bet Nintendo switch 2 will have it. It’ll be arm tho.
They already have the Switch. They should jump straight to the gaming tablet market, like the minisforum v3.
There really isn't enough space in a handheld to add a whole nVidia dgpu and the cooling system to support it without making an absolute BRICK of a device. So I think the best option right now Is for people to get comfortable with the devices we currently have, and really support them. Because this will incentivize manufacturers to not abandon the form factor. Valve will keep working with AMD on a real generational improvement at a similar tdp as they likely have been. And AMD will work on their own in conjunction with other partners like Asus and Lenovo, for iterative increases in performance for yearly refreshes. and this category as long as we keep supporting it, should keep game developers grounded a little bit. With a target hardware spec to reach for good performance.
Great on Deck is where it started, I think we need to keep that in mind, that the steam deck needs to lead the charge. 800P at Medium to High settings needs to be the baseline of good performance on the steam deck, and new games need to hit that target. Other Handhelds can beat that target or whatever, but we need to push for game developers to meet this baseline, so that these other premium handhelds can have a better experience as 'premium' handhelds. To keep the market healthy, and drive for innovation both in the software and hardware space.
The reason why I personally think this will never happen is because Nvidia continues to lose to AMD for price to performance at low to mid tier. A Nvidia handheld would be shut down by Nvidia itself. The chips are there, Nvidia just doesn't care
If Nvidia made a modern day X86 handheld... they would only make 10 at a time and It'd cost $5000. Because Nvidia.
If you look how far android phones (and vr headsets) have come in performance, I don't really see a point for a handheld with a discreet Nvidia gpu. A snapdragon 8 gen3 with a cooler has enough horsepower to emulate pretty demanding PC games.