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BONELAB 2 Months Later: Okay, I Made a BIG Mistake
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- Опубліковано 6 гру 2022
- Hello! Welcome to my bonelab Retrospective; 69 days later I take another look at bonelab post the hype rosy glasses.. have my thoughts changed? Was it overhyped? How have the updates gone since launch? Does the campaign hold up as well as it's predecessor Boneworks? Today I answer all of those question and also talk about my own part in overhyping the game.. something that I have DEFINITELY learned a very hard lesson from.
Still I find it pretty insane that you can play Bonelab and Boneworks levels on Quest 2- But basically, while mods are getting a lot better, there's still a LOT of work to be done on the SDK- luckily lots of great mods and fixes/ reworks to the campaign are working towards Bonelab being a much better and fuller game.
Hope you enjoyed! Was Bonelab overhyped for you? What were your thoughts?
My Links:
/ thrilluwu
My discord:
/ discord
Patreon link:
/ thrillseeker
69 DAYS LATER. I loved and I still love Boneworks and Bonelab, but I have also learned a very valuable lesson about hype trains and excitement. I DEFINITELY let myself get WAYYY TOO HYPED. and my experiences a couple months after launch are definitely different not that the hype and excitement has melted away. What are your thoughts?
If you wanna play some Bonelab multiplayer sometime join in my discord: Discord.gg/Thrill
Bonelab is my favourite vr but I haven't played boneworks so that might be better I'm not sure. I feel addicted to bonelab
Be honest, you waited exactly 69 days just to have this video? nice.
Day before my birthday so this decides if I buy it
It’s multiplayer?
I dunno about bonelab, but RUMBLE VR is really something bro... That's just next level VR multiplayer gameplay especially with the fitness aspect along with the fun.
For me it felt like BONELABs story mode really is holding the game back a lot. The moment when I felt like "okay the Prologue is now over, I can finally play the real levels" it was over.
I totally agree. It would've been perfect if the campaign was on boneworks level. We know they're capable of making a great campaign, so honestly would rather have the game come out 1 or 2 years later
I think that was the point. The Bonelab campaign was supposed to be a intro to the worlds modding would bring. The problem is that the modding scene though certainly good at this point it's still not nearly developed. The official SDK is still in early development and native weapon, advanced maps, and NPCs are still not features limiting modders. SLZ's radio silence on the SDK certainly isn't helping.
I imagine Bonelab was meant to have Skyrim level modding, but that level of modding takes time so right now Bonelab feels incomplete.
agreed
That was the same feeling with Boneworks to be honest
on top of that the last half of the levels felt like legit tech demos
My biggest issue is how much emphasis the marketing seemed to have on the avatar switcher
It seemed like switching avatars on the fly would be a main gameplay element through most of the game, but in the end you only end up being able to really do that for the last few levels
Not to mention, most of those levels really only benefited from having the tall guy and the heavy guy. None of the other avatars really felt like they were useful in their own right, they all just felt like slightly different "standard" characters to use til you got to a point that you need tall or heavy guy for one obstacle.
Uncreative much
@@russianotter heavy is the best avatar in the game, change my mind
@@russianotter still trying to figure out what the point of the "light" avatar is.
@@Thezuule1 to be kawaii, duh
the main problem i've found the entire time with bonelab, is that it's just lonely. like, even in lore, you're just alone, you meet one person who's sentient and they barely interact with you, then you're on your own for hours. it's a fun playroom, but thats it without being able to share it with others
I think the whole being lonely thing would have worked if it has the same story style as boneworks, and was actually about MythOS and not just the hub and mods
This is an issue with most VR single player games
I like the alone aspect of it. It's calming and relaxing
I think they easily could've fixed this with a narrator or character that talks to you. Like Portal, Borderlands 2 or even High on Life. Even Subnautica where literally everyone else died has the PDA voice.
@@caseymurray7722 the radios are that
I hope they don’t abandon bonelab, it has such a great foundation.
It’s a great foundation, yes, but that’s all it really is.
It comes down to the money. If developing Bone Lab isn't generating profit for the dev's they have to move on to something else. If it is generating profit then updates/sequels will continue.
@@AlexRaylight this part is true but luckily we have modders to save us
@@Joe-my6go that…was..literally…his point 💀
@@memevondank1197 that’s what I’m saying like it’s a great game but really only groundwork the modders are the creators
My one and only problem with it is that it's WAYYYYY too short
It was short because people complained boneworks was too long. The same people who complained boneworks was too long are the ones who just downloaded a 100% save for bonelab
@@SoniXperias boneworks was like 6 hours maximum what the fuck are they on about?
@@gorbonfree8245 I have no clue
thats what she said
It's cause it's GMOD VR. If GMOD had a campaign, it wouldn't be long either
I feel like the campaign needs an extension of some sort.
Like you have this big build up with unlocking avatar after avatar, and then you have 1 level were you put these into action.
It really feels like the game was striped of at least 1/4 of the campaign content
Yeah playing it again a couple months later it felt super anticlimactic
maybe free dlc expansion or just a few extra levels after the avatar minigames
i would say 3/4 i feel like it should of had a few varied maps having many ways to have avatars solve puzzles and then a big battle triumph , few down arch settling down levels then a twist ending surprise final boss epic fight needing to use all talents together and then unlock lager tuskusy cityplex and kingdom areas for sandbox exploration. man did i feel let down when the update came and added just a few tiny rooms. i feel like boneworks had more updates and things added by this point,
important note
boneworks got a few campaign like levels after launch, manly the redacted chamber and the hover junkies level
@@flamingscar5263
At that same time I feel there's a lot of limitations not from the engine, but from the game itself because it was built with the Quest 2 standalone system in mind, which kneecaps the potential a great deal. PCVR is the cruicible of VR software development, and it got the short end when Quest 2 was prioritized.
I wish there were more bosses, enemy types, and setpieces to explore the vr tools they have made and utilize them to the fullest.
It's funny since they want to spearhead modding so bad but only give us the tools to make custom avatars and weapons, stuff modders can just do without tools anyways. If they actually understood modding beyond "hahaha he changed the funny NPC model to Shrek" we might have been able to actually get new, varied and full expansion style mods like Entropy Zero from Half Life 2 or DayZ from Arma. That's what modding really means.
@@yume5338 Basically they offered "tool chain" to those who normally don't mod. I hope they add NPC templates for different type behaviors when you create maps (Haven't got time to check map creation). I think main problem is that they don't want any executable code in mods. That multiplayer mod was using old modding style because they needed executable code. I understand because you basically give backdoor for 3rd party and I think they don't want to take that risk.
I think now big campaign style mods are moving to separated games because engines are more easier to use and basically free for small projects (if you aren't planning to use initial asset set from original game).
@@LimbaZero I don't think offering a backdoor for modders would be a gigantic risk. Look at the source engine games and CSGO and it's predecessors. It didn't cause them to die and be insecure even though it started as a mod.
@@yume5338 There is somebody making a ez2 mod for bonelab tough, I don't know if it will be ever finished but it's being made.
look deaper i swear to god i have been playing for so long and have not found all the secret rooms youll find what your looking for trust me
I'm working on a VR RPG alone at the moment and I've got to say that Bonelab did give me inspiration to increase the amount of interactions you can have in my game. increasing immersion and fluid combat are my goals at the moment.
What’s the game gonna be called?
@@yamon2946 Cinder, I've posted the first short devlog on it. I have a lot of work to do still
All I can say is, please don’t let the player just be floating hands 🙏🏼 it’s so over done in VR and feels like gaming on training wheels.
@@iAmTonySaint it's done in vr because it's all you really *need* for interaction, a full body is extra headache that most people just dont wanna deal with lol
its not vr "training wheels" or anything like that, it's just 100x easier for devs
@@opcivy I sort of figured that. Going the extra mile visually can definitely pay dividends though. I know it may be more difficult, and graphics aren’t everything, but I feel like that’s what they sign up for as game devs. To create the best gaming experience that they can, and that tiny part of it, as small as it may seem, is still apart of the immersion. That’s how I feel about it personally. If I the gamer can see the flaw, I know that they do too. Some of them at least.
Not a lot of UA-camrs look back and admit that they were feeding the hype. I respect your integrity fr Thrillseeker.
8:24
One thought I should add to this: You can do vehicles, NPCS, and items _only_ with the unofficial extended SDK. The official SLZ SDK is still stuck on primitive level mods and avatar mods. It's kind of surprising that it hasn't been updated at all yet (the last update was on October 5th)
You cannot make a campaign map yet with how primitive the tools are. There's no checkpoints, loading zones, and even grab points, which is like, one of the most important things a level can have.
It's not that strange if you look at their history.. Boneworks was also touted as a modding wonderland, but the modding tools were all made by the community.. The SDK stresslevel Zero gives out for their games is pure trash. That's why the mods are so primitive and crappy.
Especially considering that such a big part of the game was pushing for modding and community development, the fact that the modding framework is so primitive feels SLZ shooting themselves in the foot.
@@vgaportauthority9932what???? it was never a "modding wonderland". SLZ never even added mod support, people quite literally "jailbroke" the game to make their own makeshift SDK. boneworks wasn't supposed to be a modding game at all
Boneworks is one of the greatest games ever made. The sense of awe and wonder I had every time I stepped into that world was astounding. Im one of the lucky people who don't get motion sickness in VR ever, I would watch my friends tap out of boneworks after 15 minutes sick as hell and then Id do a 5 hour session straight through with no problem.
Same. I’ve kinda given up on gaming and don’t really play anymore, then came Boneworks and I played for 25 hours on 13 days. I was astounded by it. The soundtrack and atmosphere, as well as dynamic gameplay made it fun.
I had a friend help me with mods and he said his friend was at his house and tried boneworks. He kept talking about how good he was at combat then proceeded to vomit
dude its amazing how i just don't get sick in VR ive always had the legs the only time I have ever felt Quest was while playing mission ISS on the 1st day I got the quest2
I'd have to say I don't get motion sick in VR either. Unless I've been drinking a lot however. It's funny though, because riding passenger in a car where the driver can't seem to find a good spot for the accelerator, the back and forth jostling of acceleration and deceleration makes me car sick.
same here, i really don’t understand how people get motion sick by playing vr. i can sort of understand how boneworks could make you sick with all the climbing, jumping, and movement but not any normal vr game
I thought I didn't get motion sickness then I played the goddamn go kart level
Story mode got me really upset. The moon level was frustrating for me not knowing what to do and the time it took to walk anywhere. And also it's exactly what you said, after getting all the characters the game's done. I thought the taxi was to get me to the real levels, i could not believe and be more pissed off when it drops me off on main menu --'
The moon level was fun for me. Because the gun that creates things would make platforms below me as I jumped and explored. I felt like an earthbender using platforms to move fast and jump high
This was exactly my reaction to the campaign. I too was confused when I got to the hub... I was starting to wonder if that was it, and it was just minigames from then on. Googled it and found out that there was in fact more story... But not much more. A bit later, short minigames to introduce the concept of avatars and their abilities, which seems like it's building to something... It felt like you should have been halfway through at most, like the real game was about to just start, in which you'd have to use all these avatars to overcome all sorts of puzzles and challenges... And sure, there was like 10 min of that, then a giant hand scoops you up and a dude in a taxi is like, "You want content? Make it yourself!" I was excited that the modding tools would lead to people making new levels, entire games even... That's all I want; more playable content. More levels/campaigns. But so far it seems it's just hundreds of avatars with misshapen hands which I don't give a crap about. The few map mods I've seen so far looked pretty empty and pointless. So...yeah, overhyped and disappointing, I'm sorry to say.
They released appalling modding tools for it, which I found to be extremely disappointing. When they called it Bonelab I kinda thought they'd have a sort of level-building toolset inside the game (rec room/neos style) so average joes could make content. but nah.. They released a model exporter for Blender, and that's about it... Which is why the "mods" are all just player characters dragged in from other games....
The fact that Stresslevel Zero sold this as a game that will thrive on a big old modding community is SO DISHONEST when all the mods that we'll actually see will be mostly rooted in us standing in front of mirrors admiring our anime characters.............. That got stale quick.
I think the idea there was for the end to lead you into modding, but since the modding feature is mostly nonexistant without external tools, the true ending for a lot of people is just that: the end. If the modding tools get better, it'll be a worthwhile game, but unti then...
...well, it's not that good.
This game will only ever take off once it supports multiplayer mods like Gmod.
THAT will be a lot of fun. Single players mods can only be so fun, but making sleds and racing friends isn’t something that can be replicated playing by yourself.
@@vgaportauthority9932 Lol *this* is the actual problem right here. They aimed to make a sandbox and made it near-impossible to make content for.
Personally I originally thought that the ending with the giant hand was a boss fight and I got super hyped then got super confused when it just stayed with his finger
I got the game when it first came out. I beat it, downloaded a few avatars and maps, then never played it again
Edit: Also the climbing mechanics made me want to despawn myself IRL
Well said on all accounts, honestly. The biggest issue for me was the pacing and length of the game, and them seemingly not even thinking to push the limits of the campaign.
- Why not put in some enemies that are actually a threat? Maybe a null body became sentient and can fire a gun, swing a sword, or even block you?
- Why not have some armored nullbodies in fantasyland that require pulling off all their armour in order to even hurt them?
- Why introduce the avatar switcher as if it's a primer for a huge campaign, then only put in like 2 or 3 more levels before ending the game?
Same as you, I love this game and had a blast... but on repeat playthroughs that joy and love started to fade a bit. I can hardly even enjoy the last level anymore, since it can be completed in a matter of minutes. Just wish that the game followed some kind of reliable ramp up to a climax that felt worthwhile.
If they ever reworked the final level, I'd honestly wish for that final room with the windmill to have a gargantuan encounter in it. Maybe a corrupted void version of ourselves that switches between avatars like we can and takes a while to kill while Jimmy calls out "uh oh, looks like there's a glitch in the system", finally ending with him breaking through the ceiling after the fight.
Great video, Thrill!
it's great tech ruined by terrible design...
those enemy ideas are actually great...
Those enemy ideas are great
Your 3rd point was good, but you can't really expect devs to add exactly what _you_ wanted into the game. They can't read your mind.
A game’s biggest selling point being mod support? Yeah, fair.
The campaign being just a setup for that mod support? Yeah, also fair.
Should it cost 40 bucks when both of these are true? LOL no, that’s how you get people to either not buy it or sail the seven seas.
Still waiting for proper mod support. From a dev I have heard that scripting is not planned. You will have to use the melon loader hack to do anything of substance.
It’s pretty lazy game design when its built on the community having to finish it for the devs in order to be “fun”
funny how gmod never costed more than 10 bucks despite being a superior sandbox in every single way, and for some reason slz is selling their investment sca- sorry sandbox spin off for 40 bucks even though they know very well how little content it actually has (community has to carry it with barely functional ford reskins lol)
i feel that at max it should be 30 like boneworks but 40 bruh
"sail the seven seas" Haha that one got me ;)
I think that Bonelab feels like it was made with the assumption that you played Bonework. Take for example the slow time ability. In Bonelab they don't talk about it at all. I never used it. I then went after completing the campaign tried Boneworks and the Museum level made me understand how it works. Now I use it in Bonelab.
not only that but its inferior to boneworks and didn't fix any of the issues people had with the original like melee
that's a massive flaw
that's a massive flaw
That assumption is called: bad game design
@@waffler-yz3gwWait, I think I’ve seen you on Miziziziz’s channel before!
as someone who didn't know bonelab existed until a month after it came out and vaguely knew of boneworks existence i had a lot of fun playing bonelab, both the story mode and just messing around in the sandbox levels. It felt really fun and unique and i spent a lot of time just boxing the npcs because the physics is fun.
10:43 THIS. THIS IS IT. That's the main issue. They're basically selling a promise for the uncertain future, for 40$. It's an incredibly bad practice that's unfortunately getting more popular nowadays, and yes it should be hated.
Exactly
funny how gmod never costed more than 10 bucks despite being a superior sandbox in every single way, and for some reason slz is selling their investment sca- sorry sandbox spin off for 40 bucks even though they know very well how little content it actually has (community has to carry it with barely functional ford reskins lol)
I hate it too. The trend of Early Access and GaaS roadmaps is making gaming as a whole depressing.
40$ is fine tho. You have to remember that its a vr game, which requires a lot more detail then other games, and thus way more work. And its not super short, just quite short, while being higher wuality then most aaa vr, which make 40$ a fair price.
@@Matx39 it's 40$ for a physics engine really, I wouldn't even call bonelab a game because of how little content there actually is
I'm really glad you made this video. Your Bonelab/Boneworks analyses really showcase how VR games are still being explored in general... And this specific game aside, the unexplored platform that is VR needs games that can be rightfully hyped, overhyped, and take advantage of trying, succeeded, and failing in the journey of figuring this whole "virtual reality" thing out.
Really respect everything you reflected on here, and it's fun to watch your own opinions develop over time (same with all of us in the VR community), which is pretty cool + exciting to be a part of in of itself.
Amazing video as always!! :)
Hi phia
I know this is stupid but: Here before the comment blows up
@@maxizockt7325 same
We love accountability and growth from a person, so good on you for admitting your hand in the situation and being honest with us and yourself. No love lost
Exactly what I was saying day one. Looking back I may have been a bit harsh but honestly to have all these glaring problems staring at you while everyone online is talking about it like the next coming of the video game messiah is so surreal. Glade people can finally see through the hype, and hopefully enough people like me have cooled down enough from the slap in the face from the hype train to see it is a good game and stress level zero worked hard on it.
My biggest gripe was the lack of directions in the game. When I first got Bonelab, I was extremely confused on where to go, what to do, how to unlock things. I had to take off my headset and consult google for directions CONSTANTLY. Oddly, I don't see many other people saying the same, so maybe I'm just a dumbass, lmao.
The only properly confusing bit was the crane section that requires you to play minigames. It's a nice subversion of expectations to include them in the story, but they straight up had to add instructions at the start of the hub in an update because no one understood how to start the proper story after getting there
Or you just don't like to wonder around, some ppl like for a game to constantly say what they have to do. Like all of the AAA games do now. Don't get me wrong, that's just preferences I think, also old games were harder in that aspect, so the older part of gamers don't mind to wonder so much.
Honestly I was the same, you're not a dumbass
@@BHBalast the game isn't hard, it has zero direction and a bad campaign
Yeah I never got past the hub mini games. I need to jump back in.
It feels like it could have been a DLC for boneworks
I am still curious if the engine is simply the same...
@@b.s.7693 I believe they both use a modified version of the unity game engine I know bonelab uses unity as that's what you need to mod it
True, but then it would not be on the quest platform (which is how they raised the million dollars in an hour).
@@b.s.7693 I think the principles and algorithms are very similar, but i think they had to do a lot of optimization.
I think its worse than that though, it felt like a watered down boneworks. Porting boneworks levels over to bonelab and seeing the quest 2 shit itself reveals why.
8 months later, im not able to defend Bonelab anymore.
I used to defend this game RELIGIOUSLY since it was the only game like it on quest 2, besides blade and sorcery, but the fact that after all this time, and the last update has only had a handful of new stuff, the blatant fact that they wanted people to compare the game to boneworks, the lack of a mod manager despite that being the main pitch of the game, it just does not work.
BONELAB is still a good game, but it just isnt worth the extra 10 dollars compared to boneworks. It was a breath of fresh air for quest players, but not enough to warrant a buy over boneworks.
The potential of bonelab is insane, its actually crazy they haven't released the full SDK and updates the game more.
Fully agreed. After playing an equal amount of hours on both games I can safely say that Boneworks is way better.
My biggest problem was that 70% of the campaign were disjointed tech demo levels that were showing you what each skin did. And then you barely got to even use them because there's only like 1-2 hours left of the game. Also the ending was very much an anti climax. No big boss. No big event. Nothing other than a really easy level with a cool aesthetic and then grabbing a finger. I totally understand this is a small team and I'm sure it was a huge job getting marrow and all of the tech stuff completed, but next game needs to focus on a campaign. I really craved the half life style of thrill that came from the fast paced gunplay in connected levels leading to something big. I never got my craving fully satisfied
I haven't played this or any other VR game but from what I could understand reading yours and other's comments, it just seems that they need someone with experience in level design. If it made that much money, just get an experienced dev for the next game.
@@rodryguezzz For some extra context, the previous game Boneworks had excellent level design, so that's why people felt especially disappointed this time. To me it just seemed like they had huge ambition for this game, so something had to give since it's a small team
Also, I know I might have sounded harsh in my comment, but I really did enjoy the game. One of my favorite VR games. I just ended up disappointed there wasn't more of a traditional campaign
If you ever do get into VR, Boneworks and Bonelab are two of the best, so I'd still 100% recommend both. Just expect Bonelab to focus more on side content and arcade style levels focusing on high scores rather than a Half Life experience
The only real issue with Bonelab is that the mods are what carried the game. Without mods you just have a $40 sandbox game with a campaign 1/4 as long as other games at that same price. That’s how it was at Day 1 and it was a little disappointing. However the post launch modding support really made it worth the $40 imo.
After 2 months the mod support is still pretty bad/incomplete to say the least
@UCzeGd3XJBiulPZO1lTYbNcw Yes, it took me about double the time and I think the levels were better overall. Bonelabs levels were very narrow and linear in comparison imo.
@UCzeGd3XJBiulPZO1lTYbNcw I finished Bonelab's campaign in about 10 hours, after more than 30 hours in Boneworks, I still haven't finished the game.
That and the really bad environmental interaction courtesy of a horribly bouncy physics engine and bottom of the barrel combat and weapon gripping
Yeah. The content for the price was some serious bs
I’m upset they didn’t give us any real physics puzzles like they did in boneworks. That’s the main intrigue for me is the physics engine, and using your environment to create your own solution to the problem in front of you. Boneworks gave me half life vibes because it presented physics based puzzles that you get to figure out in your own unique way. Players were given a basic set of physics rules and did with them as they pleased. I remember jamming some crates underneath a platform that would drop when you walked on it so that when the platform started dropping, it hit the crates jammed in beneath it and stopped the platform from lowering anymore and I was able to run across and complete the room.This whole game just seemed like a showcase for the avatar system and the vehicle framework with no more content than that. What we have is good, there’s just not nearly enough of it. Disappointing overall but I will be revisiting the game to check out the crazy mods people create
Thank you for making this. I felt like I couldn’t talk about how the game made me feel (slightly negative) around launch due to the hype, but now I hope others can understand my disappointment as a huge Boneworks campaign fan.
I got to the hub area in ecstasy listening to the music for the first time. But then the mini-games really killed the mood for me, to the point i realised i wasn’t really feeling like i wanted to put the headset on to play anymore. Really wish we could have the amazing physics together with a descent campaign for a fully fleshed out game, and disappointed that bonelab didn’t turn up to be this kind of game :/
i like bonelab, especially now that index controllers behave less stupidly, though still the controller is in the wrist... which is a lil' wonk.
my biggest issue now is the forced "seamless standing / sitting" feature.
I would like to be crouched while moving if i am crouched irl
You can do that though.
@@yoavco99 it's super jank still, glad there is mod that gets rid of the auto crouch/height stuff, one that has to be loaded through melonloader though
@@metallicserpant1480 according to their discord mods we will have the option to use classic toggle between standing and sitting at some point.
@@yoavco99 try it.
Hop into bonelab, put your hands in your floor and push your stick forward, the avatar straightens up whenever you try.
@@missa2855 oh that's what you meant. Yeah
It had a short campaign, but is definitely a huge platform for VR physics and interactions, and loads of people are saying it's bad because of the travel sickness, but if you've ever heard of Boneworks, then you should expect that
The travel sickness didn’t bother me nearly as much as the lazy design and janky AF physics
@@dragoonseye76 How is the design lazy, it took them 2 years
@@TheCuteKyuubi the requirement for the community to do all the actual work in mods to make it “fun”. If you are going to troll, you are going to have to add some honest intelligence
@@TheCuteKyuubi can you honestly say the AI was worth a crap?
Same feels like a lot of complaints seems like simple user error and or getting used to games holding their hands thru the plot. There are flaws but physics isn't one of them.
One of the huge selling point of boneworks was that it was not a tech demo. I think a lot of people expected that of bonelab as well. As the name suggests I think bonelab was meant as a sandbox that would be able to run on quest, but they had to add the campaign so people would feel they got their money's worth.
From what stress level zero has said and teased, the next game should be a lot more campaign heavy
there is a lot of not said lore if you look at the writing on walls clipboards and look for secret rooms its a very lore rich game and it gets deep but it gives the game a lot more just going lore hunting
You have good points, but either way Bonelabs was a huge step forward in the capabilities of the quest 2 and other lower end vr headsets. Without bonelabs we wouldn’t get a proper physics type game in probably forever (exaggerated). The fact that Quest games are now updating to close or near standards as bonelab, is game changing.
@@MadWatcher without Facebook vr would have already died
every since bonelabs release ive only really found myself playing more boneworks
but i am excited to see what the future of bonelabs holds i think it can only get bettr from here
there isn't one. Its the cyberpunk 2077 of vr and is not getting better and there will be no anime to bring it back
@@housemouseshorts you cyberpunk is the most played game and the anime did't bring back cyberpunk it was the updates and them fixing the game if I play the 2020 version of cyberpunk after watching the anime know I think of the I would think it was shit
@@housemouseshorts cyberpunk 2077 was updated to the point that its one of my most played games ever, so I do hope bonelab is the cyberpunk of vr
Agree with everything you said, I let myself get way too hyped as well. The developers not having support in the main SDK for custom weapons and basically being limited to avatars and levels day 0 didn't help either, but I definitely let my hype get out of hand
you are so right, boneworks campain structure was perfect as a mysterious new world. Bonelabs was jsut a long tutorial. And here i thought i was the only one thinking that
I think for people who played boneworks before the game might feel overhyped. If you haven't played boneworks it is quite amazing and you easily spent more than 10h to complete it, because you spent hours exploring stuff. I totally agree that the story is kind of cut short. Hoping they will release an extension of the campaign. Like and Episode 1 and 2 kinda thing. Btw. Alyx Levitation it pretty amazing!
Interesting. I’ve never played either bone games. I actually don’t own a VR headset (except the old PlayStation VR). I’ve been debating buying a Quest (2?) or smtn like that. But Alyx n Boneworks are the only games I’ve heard much hype about (that perhaps make it worth buying a headset). N I don’t have a gaming pc, just consoles. N now I’m realizing Works isn’t on Quest, so is it really worth buying a headset to experience Bonelab? You think I’ll appreciate it more not having played Works?
Hell I don’t even know if Alyx works on Quest.
It’s such a bummer and SO LAME that Alyx n Boneworks aren’t on PSVR2. It’s a giant L for Sony not to have pursued getting those games ported to psvr2. It’s such a good headset, way more powerful than what I’d get with a Quest, but it doesn’t have the 2 games I’m most interested in.
On the positive note, I'm really glad they received all support they did. Stress Level Zero keep proving they can take what they got from their endeavours and use it to push to even greater heights!
Dunno if I'd really call an incomplete platform port with new maps, of their previous also incomplete and now abandoned game "Pushing to greater heights". But maybe expecting more for $40 is just "old fashioned thinking" or "entitlement" on my part, ha ha ha. :-|
Theres no positive note here. Its as bad as cybepunk 2077 and theres no anime to bring people back into it this time. It was falsely advertised. Overhyped by influencers and basically turned out to be a complete and utter scam on par with cyberpunk and battle feild 2045 or whatever.
The sdk is not complete. The advertisements showed only the last few levels and the mini game levels and sold it as the campain. This is as bad as fallout 76s merch sales and cyberpunk 2077s sketchy adverts. The diffrence is slz got to walk away with the bank becouse they are a vr dev and apparently not held to the same standards. When cdpr AND bethesda did this .They where delt with legaly. When slz did this they walked with nothing more than review bombing.
nah alex knoll proves otherwise
@@KiraSlith No it's called getting your money's worth, why would you think it's entitlement to expect a good product for your $40, especially after the Hype-train everyone boarded because we're all starving digitally for a good VR title of AAA quality. It's not old fashion to expect a standard of quality for your money either, you put your own sweat equity into earning that $40 whichever way you did it and should expect something of quality when spending it or why spend it at all.
@@housemouseshorts At least if you have had the chance to go back to it CP2077 has improved a lot (couldn't tell you about the console versions though) Bonelab will sit around and get shelved for the next VR tech demo SL0 makes
One thing I find interesting is the moon level had probably the most thrilling experience of VR I've ever had in it, at least in terms of physics driven gameplay. I found out where to go and then proceeded to get there by using 2 shotguns as ski poles. Fun stuff in it's own right. But once I got to the building I had to climb I realized I could use the kick back from each shot to increase my height. I jumped up some sections until I got near the end where I ended up t-posing between two beams to prevent from falling, using the shotguns to anchor myself.
At this point I had an idea and knew it was either going to work or result in me having to reclimb a lot of the building. I raised my arms and quickly lowered them, flinging myself up from the beams that I had was anchored onto. I immediately shot both shotguns straight down to maximize my vertical speed. From here the plan was to reach the top, but I didn't move forward enough to reach it. In a desperate, final attempt at making it, I threw one of the shotguns behind me to propel myself forward just enough to reach the ledge. No other game on the planet would have allowed me to do that. Yes, part of the climb felt clunky, but when it it all came together at the end... I can't help but be grateful a game like this exists.
I had almost the same experience with Moon Base, and although I see why most people hate it, I don’t think it deserves what everyone has given it
That kinda makes me want to play it, honestly! I hope the mod scene improves to support easy modding. I'd buy for that alone
Funny enough, I also had an amazing experience on Moon Base. For awhile, I was stuck wandering around and didn't know what to do. But then I started messing around with the item spawner and found a baseball and a baseball bat. Just to kill time, I spawned a couple dozen baseballs and threw them up to myself and hit the ball out. It actually ended up working great, with the ball going to a predictable place with a reasonable amount of distance. I was reminded of my childhood, practicing baseball out in the yard with my parents and brother, and it was really relaxing. I just ended up looking at Earth, with my what now had been hundreds of baseballs littered across the moon floor, and I remember thinking to myself that no other VR game could have done that
Weird, I absolutely LOATHED the moon level, the floaty feeling and awkward sized avatar was so painful to slog through. It was bad enough that coming back for the my friend apollo achievement, having the jump pads made the level feel at the same time much more palatable and yet also completely pointless. I never even use the Bingus avatar, theres literally no need for it.
The Moon Base is like a rubix cube of physics.
If you were randomly given one and had never seen one before, you wouldn't know what to do and would probably put it down, never think about it again.
But if you knew what to do, or had some weird premonition of the goal, then the clicking and clacking of twisting the sides into the solution becomes all the more satisfying!
Basically most people didn't know what to do with the physics engine and finding the goal, which is what leads to the main hate of the level.
But when you figure it out, and start to think about what you could do with the physics, then testing out the possible solution becomes that same satisfying feeling!
Anyone that played Boneworks could see this coming IMO. Going all the way back to DuckSeason Stress Level Zeros games always have good gameplay, but leave quite a lot to be desired when it comes to being "the complete package".
UA-camrs follow this hype train then walk back model a lot. Let's be honest, it helps them a lot. Rake in the views and revenue whilst the hype train builds, then ride the hype train down talking about how the game missed the mark etc. If you want to see this "business model" in action, take these videos from ThrillSeeker, also look at JackFrags catalogue and other UA-camrs as well. I don't want it to seem I'm negatively calling anyone out here, I'm just pointing out why the average person shouldn't trust and let the UA-camrs increase the hype train.
Don't hate the player, hate the game. I don't blame UA-camrs for doing this, it's their job after all - but the UA-cam audience at large needs to recognise this trend and not let it suck them in too much.
I honestly have no clue how people somehow missed the giant poster on the wall telling you where the capsule is with a giant question mark and an entire map of the moonbase.
It was probably just because the map is mad, confusing considering it has a lot of places which look like you can enter but can’t
I agree with your assessment of the game. I personally bought it mainly for the story campaign, and it left me wanting more. There were some cool moments and levels, but I was hoping for much more. The Arena is pretty awesome though, much fun to be had there
if the arena is so fun get blade and sorcery its had tons of updates since most people looked at it and an in game mod browser is coming soon (it also already has lots of mods)
@@mecalico4647 I agree with you, but I mean. I have both games, and in all honesty it's unfair to compare both of them. Bonelab has gun play, weapons swords whereas Blade and Sorcery has really really good Sword Mechanics, movement mechanics. All in all both games are best at what they do, Bonelab is far more interactive the tradeoff is a little jank, where as Blade and Sorcery feels slightly better. I'd say personally Bonelab has the best of both worlds and actually has more content compared to Blade and Sorcery.
@@benchmarkerlovesgaming140 blade and sorcery has guns too lol
@@canaconn2388 No, it doesn't.
I feel like the biggest thing holding back Bonelab was the Quest 2.
Most likely, I'm glad they put it on quest but I think it did hold them back a little bit
Yeah but it's still a miracle that it runs with a decent framerate and has mod support. Graphics aren't really that bad either, quite a PCVR experience on a mobile chipset
I think of what Boneworks 2 on PCVR could have been and I develop another sliver of hate towards standalones.
@@tomcat3900 But it would also get 10x less sales
No, it wasn't it's so far helped bonelab especially in the aspect of selling
13:05
The cardinal lesson of every young gamer. Once you've been disappointed, betrayed, or exploited enough times, and you get older, the rest of life starts demanding more of your time and attention, you lose your belief and hope in "the next revolutionary new game that will change everything". Your interest, anticipation, and hype for games dwindle and fade into more of an apathetic, detached sense of intrigue. Before long, you even find yourself forgetting the release date of the few games you *do* show some interest in, and suddenly the releases just start passing without you even noticing. You just learn to accept games as they come, be more discerning with your purchases, and find games and genres with replay value that you can sink lots of time into and entertain yourself with for years.
I think what people fail to see here is that Boneworks/Bonelab isn't JUST a Game, it's a Game that's trying to be the Garry's Mod of VR and what People are really focused at is the main game and not so much the Modding aspect which is what the Developers Wanted.
(Edit) What else I personally think is ruining Bonelab's success is SLZ holding back the Modding Scene by not giving us the Full Modding Power of the SDK.
i'll be a little blunt here thrill, especially with one of the video titles listed when you were being honest about the level of hype you put in about the game before it came out.
You are, in my and likely many others eyes, one of several large "User/community level" sources of vr news and info and the like. and generally you do seem to be trying your best to manage that and weigh various sides on things within the VR community, both standalone and not. but something like this happened with the quest 2, and i see it repeated now, and you yourself have commented on it before in the past as well having apparently noticed the effects, but not seeming to have taken it entirely to heart yet.
you have an extreme tendency to get caught up in that excitement, and indeed, hype, that it sometimes seems to override a bit of self recognition in a given circumstance. you say you need to be careful going forwards with not over hyping things, while one of your video titles literally was about how hyped things were. i hope to a certain degree there was recognition either when you used that title, or shortly after or, inevitably, at the games launch, as to the issue with using it, even with youtube titles being what they are.
i'm not saying excitement is a bad thing mind, heck no. this is an amazing industry, and it has had its falters, but it needs to keep progressing. and that needs excitement, and that needs interest, and that needs honesty on things. but just like the flood of promotion from all sides for the quest 2 now has the vr industry leaning heavily towards the need for smaller, simpler, and less impressive games because of how big the quest audience is now (whether that's loathed by some or loved by the users, i won't get into, that's its own issue), it feels like there does need to be some balance kept to things, some reigning in of runaway excitement, or things can get all out of whack.
honestly my hope is that maybe studios will license the marrow system from Stress level zero, as a means to incorporate it into their games so that there is a better framework for the body proportion system that SLZ created. that was one of the things that fascinated me the most with Bonelabs, and honestly needs to be in more games, that sense of self proportion to the character as a means of better immersion. maybe not specifically the way the inventory system works, i wouldn't want that being or even coming close to a standard for everything........but what you said is definitely right, studios and devs will take note, and they will take some lessons......i honestly hope those lessons and notes progress the industry better, runaway hype trains be darned.
I could not read all that, i would've if i could've.
mostly agree, however, anyone complaining about pillar climb is having a skill issues its like my top 3 level in bonelab, and its really not that hard, i completed it on my second try when the game came out.
I completed it first try in like 6 minutes I was confused why everyone was upset about it also lol
One of my biggest points is that the game has no notable and memorable Soundtrack. The Soundtrack in boneworks is so Iconic, soooo good and fits the game like a glove. I have yet to look up bonelab's Soundtrack because i cant remember one for the life of me (other than the moon one).
I mean there is a reason that you only used boneworks's music in this video.
Yea the boneworks soundtrack fit the game really well. But with the bonelab soundtrack it felt all over the place.
Huh interesting, personally I came away feeling like one of the biggest improvements was the OST’s quantity and quality. Personally was obsessed with Fist fight Fugue in particular.
I think Bonelab's soundtrack is excellent but the campaign can't do it justice. Pretty much everything past Descent just doesn't have the atmosphere to accompany it like Boneworks does, and there are like a dozen tracks on the Bonelab OST that aren't used at all.
Hard disagree. I think Bonelab's soundtrack is JUST as good, if not better.
@@Cooe. stop the cap.
I respect your Opinion tho.
I think the big issue is that Boneworks/lab wants to lean on the modding but still hits a big issue. Where VRC got lucky that people wanted to put up with Unity and janky tools, games like Neos had it figured out. Including the creation tools in the game itself is the key to the future of community content in VR titles. It's different now because there is so much friction switching from developing on the desktop to testing in vr, especially when it's modding and you have to wait for a whole game to load up just to test what you're working on.
Once we get more tools built for VR and completely usable in VR, community created content will get better. But slapping some neat tools into Unity isn't the way it should be anymore... at least in my opinion.
I'm a VR dev as well. I've made VR based creation tools and it's just not as hard as most people pretend it is. It's just a bit of a different way of thinking.
It was extremely overhyped tbh
And this channel was the main contributor
@@Jexis I disagree
Pretty rich coming from this guy 😂
@@Jexis I agree
@@ThoughtsFew ooooo. Good burn
In my opinion it was overhyped ALOT (all the nonsense about it completely changing vr and whatnot), but it's still possible for it to achieve some level of this when/if modding takes off to the extent of something like gmod (something it was also touted to be similar too)
Yeah definitely. Imo if it wasn’t hyped beyond belief and people took it for what it was. The hate train would probably be nonexistent.
I don't like how devs push all their job to "modders". That's almost the same as having unemployed personnel working for you for free. That's how it is. I am a modder myself and I mod a game which does exactly the same. Delivers just a bit of content and gives you some modding tools (which are clearly not enough for proper modding!!) and waits you to make a game for people instead of devs. And honestly that's how most modded games live nowadays but you gotta be a fool to believe you can achieve gmod level of content or at least similar to that. As from what I saw the sdk is pretty limited meaning they have failed at the only thing that should hold bonelab from sinking. Modding will not bring you a good campaign, modding will not bring you the joy of playing next gen game which bonelabs claimed to be, modding will not make a game for you if the game itself can't satisfy players nor modders. I paid full price for it and honestly I'm disappointed. Boneworks seemed way more reasonable
I mean encouraging the community to mod their game and making it easy as hell to do so doesn’t sound like they’re pushing it into them to me. And the base game still has plenty of content to dive into. One of my friends sunk over 100 hours into bonelab before downloading mods and according to him he loved every second of it. Imo boneworks is outdated now compared to bonelab but you’re entitled to your own opinion and I can’t knock you down for that.
Boneworks was the whole reason I got into VR. I instantly fell in love with the game as well. Between the story line, the soundtrack (which I still listen too), and the overall game play was just overwhelmingly good. I fought through motion sickness just to keep playing and is one of the 3 games I will play through the story multiple times.
I was SO hyped for BoneLab when I heard the news. The trailer was awesome with fresh new music, features, and continuing the story...or so I thought. Using the new avatars was cool n all but it seriously felt like a late tech demo or a weird drawnout tutorial for their new engine. It mostly felt like it was directed at the modding community which is cool because theres a lot to work with. But as someone who has limited time after my job and doesnt know shit about modding.. it was sorely lacking in the story and didnt really continue the story with Ford.. like what happened after he got capped? who are these void people? what was mythOS doing about the fact this dude slipped through the cracks? WHY ARE THEY SO MAD!1? Who is lXl? there are so many questions left unanswered
honestly the physics, modes, and mods are pretty amazing, and fit my expectations well. The campaign is really the only thing holding it back, and a big reason for why people are mad is how the trailer was presented. I watched the bonelab trailer at least 50 times before it came out because of how excited I was. The trailer mainly presents the campaign, and it looked incredible. They should've shined more light on the sandbox aspects of the game. After all, bonelab is mainly a sandbox game, if people don't like sandbox games, they most likely wont like bonelab.
One thing that really bugs me about the game is not being able to see what spawnable items look like before you spawn it. Its such a pain scrolling through the menu of thousand of mods you have installed trying to look for the new ones and then closing the menu and starting over again. I think just having like a hologram preview exactly like the arm thing would be cool for the item spawn menu
Before you spawn something you can hold down the trigger to see a highlight tho yeah an in menu preview would be nice
there is a hologram
@@zyonssYeah, but AFTER you select it.
One of My favourite aspect of boneworks was some of the amazing, sprawling levels like the tower, which you could replay over and over for ages without getting bored. I’m so disappointed how linear and boring the bonelab campaign levels were. It doesn’t matter how good your gameplay is, you need good levels to support your gameplay.
Tower is w
TBH I was so disappointed I almost had to force me through the campaign because I paid 40$ for it and didn't want that to be wasted. Biggest problem for me is the jank and the bugs. I can't even crouch properly cause I stand up automatically while walking. So the promised showcase where the developer sits in the car and sits down in person didn't work for me cause after some time sitting in the cart it just began to wobble around like crazy to the point it was unplayable. The whole fistfighting and fighting with objects is very weird and feels as frustrating as fighting in a dream for me. Also gunplay was very off and what other people noticed including me was that if you peak under your headset to see your hand at the same time, it's that the guns are off centered. So gunplay just feels very unsatisfying compared to onward or contractors. Things got stuck multiple times and pulling yourself up on a ledge sometimes just throws you down again because of the legs.
Would be crazy if SL0 does a "Mod" for extended campaign version, showing the potential of SDK and giving the community the "full" campaign mode we want
That would be great!
The potential of the SDK starts and stops at importing models I'm afraid... They sold a game relying on mods with modding tools that in no way let people do anything fun or advanced.
@@vgaportauthority9932 I hope they can fix it some how, would be cool to have a platform to play other games inside BL, side histories, or even let the players create their own with IA voice lines and etc.
@@larion2336 I guess we are used to deal with EA hahaha but SL0 never did a paid DLC, yet, this would be sad AF, Cyberpunk mentioned doing this and the internet was immediately angry because of the context
0:00 Nice!
0:24 Not gonna lie, no other train would fit the word "hate train" more than the German ICE they used for that animation... they're constantly broken :D - but to be fair, when they're not, they're actually great!
0:30 I may repeat myself, but: Nice!
5:23 To be perfectly fair, most people even failed looking at that map which is already being slammed right at their face in the beginning which is why SL0 added another one right as you exit that "bunker", as well as those jump pads which might actually make using the map as a sandbox level more interesting, but they should propel you at an higher arc and slower speed instead to be better for that. The real issue with the map is just that it has a ton of POIs that look interesting, but then turn out to be places with nothing to find really, all the doors shut etc. In other words, that map is just a sandbox and it lacks content, so it can be a great one if you use it as a sandbox and it could have been a great one for the story progress if it had content.
5:26 Again, to be fair, I made it at my second try already before they patched the avatar changing thing. First try though looked to me like "Imma never gonna make this if I keep endung up being Fuglykat that gets oneshot by those things buzzing around me", but on my second try, with even more patience trying to shoot those things from all the way down there, I ended up having to finish the climbing as Heavy and it was cumbersome, but still absolutely doable.
5:42 I did and it was 40+ hours for me plus another like 10-12ish in the sandboxes while I still was doing my run, but I'm playing it slowly and try turning around every rock twice to find stuff. Did the same in BONEWORKS and haven't even finished it yet, still in the Runoff area right before the Sewers and I'm at 60+ hours in that game as well.
6:12 My first thought after hearing and reading those critiques was that they should have swapped the pricetags of BONEWORKS and BONELAB. Would be more appropriate. The 40 bucks would totally be fine though if they bring the older games including BONEWORKS into it at a later time just like they added Hover Junkers to BONEWORKS. And probably initually plannet to do with Duck Season as well, I mean, we never got the Shotgun there as promised, instead they now gave us BONELAB with Q2 standalone support and I can totally see why they did that.
I absolutely love Bonelab.
Yeah I agree on the story part, but for me it was not overhyped at all, people don’t understand how massive this game is, not only for itself, but for entire VR. this will set a standard for future VR games who want to go in this direction, which will in turn create opportunity for better and better bonelab-like games to come.
And the mods are on great track imo, thousands of characters, fully custom guns, and now even fully custom NPC’s, so not nullbodies, even custom maps with gamemodes and stories like someone made a heist.. and it’s only been 2 months. It will only get greatly better from here and I believe the progress will go faster and faster as technology does.
I recently spent 12 hours in bonelabs which I am editing right now, and I must say after a while, when you get so used to the physics and the world, it felt more like that was my real world and when I had to go to the bathroom or whatever, that’s when “real life” just felt like a break from the real word which was Bonelab. It’s just surreal to describe, but it kinda messed up my vision of the world for a while.
Anyway great video Thrill, it’s good to look back at the game in retrospect and give it the criticism it needs but don’t be scared to stick to your guns as you said. This is a truly amazing game and I believe this will im the future be used a game to mark a mew era of VR technology and games, like the first xbox or ps, that was boneworks, now bonelab, it will get massively better from here and I believe this is a case where overhyping the game was actually the right amount of hype to have
7:53
No way! My Diamond sword mod got used here!
Also, I pretty much agree with your points here. Nice video as always thrill!
That’s yours!? Heck yeah!!!!
since its release, I was always under the impression that Bonelab was a modmachine. A small game for modders and VR enthusiasts to play with
except the sdk is dogshit so you're better off making content for vrchat where the tools are actually functional
A small 40 dollar game
@@kinkypro that doesn't really have any mods other than player model swaps and empty levels ripped from other games...
I think a lot of people were thinking the mods would work more like contractors mods (just click what mod you want in game in the mod menu and it downloads it’s that easy) it’s disappointing that it’s no where close to as easy on quest stand alone. I honestly don’t even know how to add mods to bonelab and the game wasn’t so good that I feel I want to learn or put the effort in to getting them
Bonelab might be my favourite VR game alongside boneworks but moon base and the hub levels really felt like a chore to play
I love Bonelab. I haven't jumped into it recently because I haven't really been in VR much but I remember how much I love it. The ending also for me was amazing, I loved all of the levels in the entire game, yes even the moon gravity jumping one, and started to tear just a touch as the game came to a close because I loved the ending.
SPOILER ALERT IF YOU CONTINUE
I even remember chasing the dude's Taxi around for like half an hour just sitting on it after I completed the game because it was such a fun game and I didn't want it to end. I still love it and the ending in my opinion was great. I do just wish it had more but it won't stop me from enjoying the game from time to time when I hop on my *Oculus* Quest (I play PCVR thru Quest even though it is on standalone).
I love the ending, and the setup. I'm even okay with the shortness of the game. A lot of my appreciation for boneworks comes from post-launch lore bits. Mod support with multiplayer will be so dope. The future for this game is bright.
You liked pillar climb?
That's the like graybox-ish one right? If so yeah.
@@ImNotGam no it’s the one where you unlock tall
@@fordealisbad8569 I definitely think that's the worst level but basically only for the last section.
That's exactly what I'm afraid of. "It will get better" are words to fear when a new game is released.
It probably will mind you, but I hate that it's a routine nowadays.
I was completely blown away by bone labs.. I’ve been a VR consumer for the past 3 years or so I just got a quest pro. I originally had a quest. This is the most fun and interesting game I’ve played where Im like a kid as 27 year old adult excited to get home from work to play it
I definitely had a blast with bonelab. I also love collecting all the hidden items capsules. But I think the story mode needed some levels at the end that really made you switch between avatars to complete the level. I felt like you could kinda do the whole game as one avatar and that I'll only ever switched for fun and experimentation. Would have been cool to get some levels that really hinged on switching avatars more and pushed that cool concept further. I was and am excited to make mods and maybe even a game with the sdk, but it's a bit too limiting so far to make much past avatars. I also think finding the sdk and all the stuff you need was pretty hard to find back when I first played Bonelab. I remember wanting to make a level that had some gokarts in it, but the SDK didn't have a way of adding existing items, so I had to join the discord and get the extended sdk and download some files and so on. It was a bit much and it makes me want to just wait till it's not so convoluted. I've played it for 27hrs (plus 10ish hrs making mods) so far and All in all, I really love bonelab, but admittedly it needs a lot of work to become a game that will live on through mods for years to come.
i remember getting to the hub and being very very confused on how to do the story. to be honest i havent done any of it. but then i saw the modding stuff and was like "oh its just planned to be VR garrys mod im ok with this. so ive been more waiting for mods (i dont know how to mod)
You definitely described my experience with this title. Still waiting on my PC so this was my first delve into the bone zone and I was not impressed because of those pace drops.
I remember the first time I played I was like "alright those avatar levels were kinda boring but I cant wait to see how things go after this"
Funny thing about this game, I fractured my leg the day it released. I wasn’t able to play it for like 2 and a half months. Eventually I played a bit then got motion sick and stopped playing for 2 more months and then I beat it today. Pretty good.
The game isn't sold as a sandbox, it's sold as a game. I'm not at the point I can make my own mods, and I don't have hours to try multiple mods to find something that makes the game better for me. I'm hoping at some point I'll come back to this game in the future and it'll be worth it, but it's going to be on the shelf for a least a few months, probably longer. It's partly on me for not doing research/buying on release, it's the videogame industry after all, but I did feel a little cheated when I got to the end and the 'thats all folks' car ride happened.
This is the big issue with it. Garry's mod is a sandbox with multiplayer, scripting and extensive mod support, and a ton of people already knew how to work with Source. Bonelab's intentions were always unclear, never deciding what it wants to be, but at least it has one thing going for it.
Garry's mod is also 5 bucks on sale (according to SteamDB); BONELAB as you said was marketed as a GAME with mod support. Do people get into Skyrim originally cause of the mods NO they got it for the game and modded later. IMO If it wanted to be Garry's mod it should be one cheaper and have a little create section; if it wanted to be a game then make a longer better campaign
Bonelab IS the tutorial. All throughout, it provides tips and tricks for designing ve games based on the marrow engine, which ties in nicely to their heavy emphasis on mods.
interesting theory
in that case it still doesn't rly justify them releasing an overglorifed 40 dollar game design tutorial (ironically the game has poor level design)...
also the "emphasis on modding" is word only, the modding sdk for the game is unfinished/broken and rly not worth the effort (no "code mods" lol!)
@@horrorfan1978 how is it over glorified 40 dollar game? i dont understand this argument, if you dont think its worth 40 bucks than just dont buy it lol, i put my money on a dollar per hour of gameplay and everything i get afterwards is just charity for it being a good game, so far i got a little less than 80 hours and slowly climbing, hbu
Something SLZ needs to do is make a “dungeon” sort of mode like Blade and Scorcery where they pre make a bunch of environments then put them in random orders each time. So that way those who don’t use mods or don’t know how to (even though it’s easy) have something to play over and over again.
Moral of the story: Never hop on the hype train.
Expect more, and you'll get less. Expect less, and you'll get more.
people calling 7 hour games short these days 💀
portal 2 was around 7 hours long and nobody complained
edit for clarification: 7 hours but can be beaten in 2
Portal 2 on a first playthrough was not 2 hours long, even without multi campaign
Wtf are you on, portal 2 is over 10 hours. At least get your facts right jesus
portal 2 average playtime is 8.5 hrs only speedrunners do it in 2. I would be totally fine with the length of bonelab if it was 8 fucking amazing hours like portal 2 was, it's is one of my favorite games. Instead bonelab is roughly 50% minigames and the advertised avatar swap was used for like... 2 levels. The levels that are there are much more linear than boneworks, lack physics puzzles, and overall feel like every piece was watered down to work on the quest 2.
What I loved about boneworks is the story was long and fit the theme so well, like the feeling of loneliness in a game for some reason makes my favourite types of games. Take half life for example, and that’s the problem I have with bonelab is that it didn’t have the best story. and the things boneworks was bad about like base sandbox wasn’t to good which is what bonelab is great on.
And bonelabs mod support is amazing
I think when it comes to the story bonelabs just needed to give an incentive or some form of letting players know they’re going in the right direction, like when it came to the hub admittedly that might’ve just been me being dumb when I saw the crane game and had no idea what to do for such a long time until I had already completed all the mini games and just looked up a tutorial. But when it comes to the moon base that’s unforgivable in my eyes, making you be incredibly slow and have to walk so far without even having a holdable map, and the map itself being confusing as your objective is in a giant hole, a giant hole that you would never see unless you just endured the slow crawl around the entire map or just looked up a tutorial, the latter of which I did because even when trying to endure it I still couldn’t find the avatar ball/objective. Maybe just a little hint or lore related clue to help direct players in a way that still has them thinking and exploring but while also directing them towards the right path. Or in cases like moonbase at least give them something that allows them to traverse the world faster because I think I can speak for everyone that isn’t fascinated by space that the gravity and slow speed you have on moonbase was absolutely horrible
When I speak of lore related clues btw I mean something like the many clipboards that are strewn around the map, what if they gave hints or clues to the players on what to do in the level, or even having hidden writing on the walls such as in the hub what if the vents area had writing inside that were the thoughts of the jngame developers talking about like how weird it is for stress level zero to lock them off from a majority of the facility yet have them create the crane game security system that keeps them locked out as if they wouldn’t also know how to unlock the hub. Doing something like this would tell the player that there is some significance to the crane but also force the player to further examine it, think about what they need to do with the crane game to beat it and escape the hub without outright telling them how to do it
Completely met my expectations. With borderlands 3 and cyberpunk and destiny 2 all purchased at launch, I don't get overhyped anymore, bonelab is a fantastic vr physics sandbox that's astoundingly capable of standalone operation. The game is repayable and easily modified, with new mods all the time. If the game let you down, you just had too high expectations.
Not gonna lie, your own overhyping of Bonelab severely damaged my trust in this channel and you going through the process of apologizing for it restored a little of it. Definitely not all of it, but some of it. As for my own feelings on Bonelab... I could go into all the problems I have with it. Bad AI, bad levels, virtual crouching, the list goes on. But I think it's best summed up by the following anecdote. I had been planning to upgrade my headset this year and have decided to save my money following *this* being the apparent "best" that VR has to offer. I liked Boneworks a lot, but... I dunno, I'll never trust SLZ again and it really makes me feel like VR is just a dying industry that I should get out of now instead of letting the sunk cost fallacy drive me into spending more money on it. I have yet to see anything that convinces me otherwise.
Yeah, Boneworks is what fueled a lot of the love I have for VR- so obviously my extreme excitement for Bonelab leaked through into my content.
It’s a lesson I only have to learn once. I thought everyone would be just as happy as I was and it took me some time to reflect on the game and look at it way more analytically. I really appreciate the patience. Means a lot to me.
-still like Bonelab btw, just a lot more objective about it ;)
@@ThrillSeekerVR Yeah. I mean, I plan to stick around on this channel, I still want to be watching VR just in case. But I'm probably gonna hold my money for the next several "BIG NEW REVOLUTIONS" that come out.
@@ThrillSeekerVR My trust in this channel has been damaged more severely by the fact that you keep changing the title/thumbnail of your new videos. I'm constantly thinking something new is out only to realize I've already watched the video. Even worse is when I have previously passed up the video because I'm not interested, only for a more clickbait title to get me to click later. Followed by annoyance when I notice the video still doesn't appeal to me, just changing the title doesn't make the content more interesting to a disinterested viewer.
@@Zhkk that is extremely extremely common on UA-cam. LTT and Mr Beast go through like 15 different titles and thumbnails haha. Just to be transparent, the performance of a video is almost entirely based on the title and thumb and sometimes I mess that up. It’s something that I adjust to hopefully resonate the best with the people that watch my videos.
I mean it’s even so common that it’s likely UA-cam will be launching A/B titles and thumbnails in the future as a feature. Sorry if it comes off disingenuous! It’s really not!
I think I overall preferred boneworks. trying to 100% it is much more of a challenge than bonelab but i also really like the avatar switching feature, its so cool being able to go from being really tall to fat and strong
I think for everyone saying it’s too short and the avatars were given at the very end, the game repeats for a reason. You’re put back to what’s essentially a ng+ and get to play the whole thing feeling stronger and a whole lot more able to just do what you want through the whole thing- I think this also explains the fact that I suddenly reached the hub in under ten minutes compared to my original 40.
My biggest issue with bonelab is how aweful the guns feel compared to boneworks, they lost all their snappiness from boneworks
This video was VERY needed, thank you.
The amount of hype I've seen on this channel for this game. This is too good lol.
That’s the point of this video, to acknowledge it and learn from it? Lmao what
@@ThrillSeekerVR I actually meant 'this is good' literally - as in kudos for being straight up. I love the transparency. Also had a feeling a lot of people who were hyped would eventually have different feels. Great vid, yo.
@@MrWhitty2000 got it! Sorry lost in text translation. All is good and I appreciate it
@@ThrillSeekerVR no worries - tbh I’m pretty trash at explaining stuff in my comments lmao. I always end up realizing it way later :P
Keep up the hustle G.
Let's be honest, it's not just the length and pacing of this game. There a lot of design choices that are questionable at best. Like the avatar minigames, you would think that each minigame would serve to introduce and justify the existence of each character, right? So let's take a look.
Strong - He can hit things really hard, put him in a beat 'em up level, makes sense.
Fast - She can do parkour well, put her in a parkour level... okay, but the level could've been made more interesting.
Short - He can crawl through short spaces easily, put him on the moon! ...What? What does that have to do with-
Heavy - He weighs a lot and can pack a punch, make him defend a rock. Okay, but doesn't that kind of make Strong pointless?
Light - She doesn't weigh much, make her drive a go-kart. ???
Tall - Big boi with a lot of reach, make him climb a tower. Sure, but if the point of the level is to make use of the character, why are you switching my character?
It's an interesting premise to have a bunch of avatars, but it doesn't really justify its own existence and once you can switch at will, you don't even use half these characters.
A lot of things in the game just don't make sense when you think about "why is this here?" I'm glad that SLZ is taking some of this criticism and working with it, and I hope that they continue to do so.
The expectations going into it are super important. BONELAB is primarily a sandbox, with a campaign very much designed to introduce you to that sandbox as well as add whatever lore elements they were going for. BONEWORKS was primarily a campaign with some additional sandbox functionality. It was absolutely over-hyped, I agree, but I think it was also misinterpreted in intention, and I can't blame the devs for not wanting to correct the people who are planning to buy their game that they've spent countless hours on. I also can't say that they tried to mislead anyone, like many of us, I closely followed any footage and PR about BL before it came out and I don't ever recall them saying anything about the campaign. They did, however, talk a great deal about the improvements to their physics engine, and the longest pre-game footage released (that one NODE video) was all in the sandbox mode. I think this whole situation was a "we tricked ourselves", not that the devs made a badly designed game. (The seemingly confusing levels such as the hub and the moon both have large signs near the beginning that say exactly what you're meant to do to progress, check for yourself.) With the exception of bugs and performance issues, I think they made exactly what they intended and we were the ones with inaccurate expectations.
TLDR, BONELAB is specifically a brilliant sandbox and in terms of that specific aspect it's a huge improvement over its predecessor.
I heard about bonelab on September 27th. First time I even knew it existed. I got it on launch day and I gotta say even if it was over hyped I'm in love and it's my second favorite game of all time.
you were the main promoter of that hype train
That’s what this video is about lol.
@@ThrillSeekerVR Yeah, and you didn't say a simple sorry or anything, no offense but a ton of people got misleaded by you and bought the game for 40$
@@gramostv_official what? It’s still a good game and I still like the game I just have a few qualms? I’d still recommend the game and I address all of the reasons why in this video.
@@ThrillSeekerVR My point is that this game is a promise for the future, A VERY PROMISING PROMISE but still a promise, and promises shouldn't cost 40$
@@ThrillSeekerVR game turned out to be an investment scam but hey, nobody could have guessed slz would just milk boneworks to death, in fact i myself was expecting a great game i could mod the shit out of
You might wanna look into the nightmare that is virtual virtual reality 2
When I got the game at launch, the only problems I had were the Mine level, the Moon Base, the dreaded Pillar, and the loneliness of the Bridge.
I USED to have issues with the physics engine and how it had me thinking that you couldn't do most of the stuff you would do IRL.
But now all of that has changed.
I still hate the Mine, but it's mostly due to me not being able to move through the level as fast as I want to.
I find the Moon Base to be one of the most relaxing places in the game, with staring at the earth in the void of space being comforting to the ambitions of hopefully being what everyone expects me to be.
The Pillar's update actually makes me MISS the old level gimmick, since I personally thought that constantly changing avatars while climbing was supposed to be a challenge to prove that you have the ability to quickly adapt to whatever was thrown at you.
The Bridge has since been updated to almost change entirely, and the addition of the helicopter and guards within the environment makes it feel like I'm playing an entirely new level.
And I've gotten used to the bugginess of the physics engine, with most of the bugs actually SAVING me in certain situations I would have otherwise died in!
So I can understand why some people hate BoneLab, since its campaign is more of a "test" than an actual campaign.
But if you're looking for something that truly feels like the more you play, the better it gets, then you can see why I still play it 69 days after it's initial drop.
The game's only gonna get better from here, and I hope you can enjoy later if you don't enjoy it now!
I feel the same way you do about the game, I enjoyed parts of the campaign but the moonbase one sucked, got lost there for like an hour and had to look up what to do. But then at the point where I looked up the answer I just didn't feel like putting the VR headset back on because I had gotten a bit motion sick from being in VR for so long. And then I just didn't have the motivation to play the game until a week later.
I haven't been able to play with mods yet however I am looking forward to them getting better and better. Until then I think I still prefer boneworks over labs.
for me this game felt more like a tech demo...
That's I wasted 40 bucks, next game they make I'm 🏴☠️
From the ending, I thought there is a way to create maps in-game. So I looked for it, but I was confused because the only thing I could find were some tools that let you play with the physics engine. And when I realised that it was all about mods and I needed a pc to make them, I got very disappointed.
that's actually a really interesting way of looking at what bonelab was promising
and I suppose it really would be amazing to make a map, interactions and stuff like that in real time with physics inside of the game itself allowing you to test during the process of making
For me the problem with Bonelabs is that it is not that fun to do more than one or two playthroughs. There is a lot of filler, yet the campaign feels short. Don't get me wrong, it was one of my favorite games, but now I just don't want to play anymore. It feels almost like a chore... but hey, maybe I am just getting older and moving past the joy of games.
"Yes but actually no"
The plot being barely comprehendable wasn’t a big dealbreaker for me, since I didn’t understand the boneworks plot either (and I still don’t), but I had so much fun with it
The problem was indeed the pacing. The main game being held hostage TWICE by mini games was the biggest offender for me
Yeah some of the boneworks puzzles slowed the game down a bit, but you could always use a bit of ingenuity to bypass it (to quote Yatzhee “when in doubt stack a crate”), but the mini games in LABS didn’t let you off so easy
I do like the official mod support, but the Quest 2 priority does mean I have to tinker a lot more to get things to work properly (I am a PCVR user)
Overall, an enjoyable game, but it gets a few major things not quite right