What's Inside Tool Batteries? Milwaukee FLEX DeWalt Makita Snap-On [18650 21700 ??]
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- Which battery cells does each tool manufacturer use in their tool batteries? We take a look under the hood of the RIDGID, Snap-On, FLEX, Milwaukee, Makita, and DeWalt batteries to find out. Which ones are 18650 cells and which are 21700, and what's the difference? Is Samsung the go-to choice, or is it Sony, Panasonic, or Sanyo?
- Наука та технологія
We need more videos like this on batteries. There is a lot of confusion out there.
I had thought for the longest time that DeWalt's XR batteries used 21700 cells, but I guess not.
Since MAC impacts are literally made by DeWalt, and DeWalt batteries fit on them, does MAC batteries which are interchangeable with DeWalt batteries use the same 18650? Has anyone tested the Flexvolt batteries on the MAC impact yet? Klein impacts also take DeWalt batteries but I don’t think they have their own batteries yet.
You’ve said a mouthful Howie Z !!! Indeed, there is confusion, and speculation, and a whole lot of contentiousness regarding batteries, and their capabilities? I don’t quite get it? It is like dudes are ready to brawl over what cells are what and in what batteries! 😬😳🙄🙄🙄🤔🤷🏻♂️ Good comment Howie! Hope you and yours are well! 👍👍👍😁✌🏻🇺🇸
@@paedahe4975, I think you answered your own question. Since Mac outsources their tools and batteries to Dewalt and Dewalt batteries fir onto the Mac tools, then Flexvolt will also fit onto the Mac, stepping down to 20v.
@@christianness8983 the dewalt 6 AH uses 21700, also , the newer 4 AH uses 21700, so, not ALL their their batteries uses 21700, only select ones
Thanks, Tim! I wanted to do this but hadn't gotten to it. Now I can just refer to this video 👍
i think bosch procore series batteries are 21700, also metabo (not metabo hpt) has new high output batteries with 21700.
I own 5 bosch batteries, 2 of them procore. Older batteries were 18650, new ones are 21700. Most 4, 5 and 6 Ah batteries are 18650. Higher capacity batteries are 21700.
The Metabo HPT Multivolt are 21700 cells
At this rate it seems only makita are refusing to go 21700 for 18v tools, which is annoying for those of us who have invested a fortune into a platform
Makita should have made 40V batteries and charges backwards compatible like Metabo HPT did
@@darylsavage119 never invest a fortune in makita. Cheap stuff but nowhere near top notch.
Your favorite belt and box channel sent me lol
Wow. Very interesting. Id like seeing the in’s and outs if these battery tools some more.
We will definitely be doing more on this. Thanks for watching.
Good job, I have been wondering about this for a long time. I wish you could have included a Bosch 18v.
Makita uses the 21700 cells in the 40v tools. The 18v line won’t get them.
I really appreciate this video as I know nothing about batteries. All my tools have the 18650 line and I thought I really needed to get the 21700 line up. I don't over do my tools so it seems as though my batteries will do just fine. Thankyou
Interesting footnote on the DeWalt is how they are using the 21700’s additional output. DeWalt’s PowerDetect line specifically responds to its 8Ah and 10Ah battery packs, that themselves are both 21700 cells. The PowerDetect develops the extra power by way of increasing the amperage of the tool vs the FlexVolt, Kobalt, and FLEX increasing the voltage to develop more power. In my opinion, the DeWalt PowerDetect is the smarter design due purely to battery volume and weight being smaller and having a longer runtime with that smaller weight and volume, they are utilizing the 21700’s in the smartest manner.
Indeed Brandon! Very well stated and explained! I have the Power Detect drill, and I weighed my XR 8.0 Ah battery, Vs the FlexVolt 9.0 Ah (closest match) and it was 1#, 2 oz. lighter, than the FlexVolt battery. I for one, wouldn’t want to be handling and toting around a drill that was over a pound heavier, than what is already a heavy set up with the 8.0. And it really comes down to Amp draw. Thanks for the comment! Peace
Very good points. Thanks for watching.
That little ridgid palm impact was a pretty random appearance lol. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that
It makes an appearance every now and again, when we need to pull some things apart. It's a great little tool for this. Thanks for watching.
palm drivers are nothing remotely new
@@nomercyinc6783 I have a Palm driver too 😁😁
@@nomercyinc6783 Except for us folks that have never seen one. Or maybe we're so darned old that we forgot it existed. 🙂
@@maddogmark lol possible
Good video would like to see more videos on the batteries and also should chart cost per Ah would be nice.
We will definitely release some more videos on batteries. The price per Ah is a great idea, but it's very hard to do. ALL the tool companies and the box stores play games with the batteries and prices. It's hard to nail down how much they're actually charging for the batteries, and then it changes all the time too. Thanks for watching.
Awesome and helpful video.
The DeWalt is a 18 volt, it's 20 volts max, but it's no different than any of the others.
Edit: I saw later in the video you mentioned this, great video man 👍
Appreciate it. Thanks for watching.
It's how they get out of paying a royalty to Milwaukee. Milwaukee has a patent in 18v batteries for tools
@@JJsGA nope, DeWalt has had 18v lines for many years. 20v is just for marketing, to trick you into buying the same tools in a different battery platform. Outside the US, the same DeWalt stuff is still labeled 18v because other countries don't allow those types of lies. It's only 20v at rest after a full charge, drops under 18v with any minimal load.
@@jba6677 I know about the 18v stuff. I told you why they started doing a "20v" line as 20v max was to get around Milwaukee royalties because Milwaukee patented "18v lithium ion batteries for power tools" that's what's on the patent. Dewalt work around was to market as 20v Max
Dewalts 18v stuff is not lithium ion but nickel metal hydride. Therefore that line doesn't owe royalties to Milwaukee.
Do a quick search and you'll see that Milwaukee owns the sole rights to 18v lithium batteries
@@JJsGA US7554290B2 covers li-ion power tool packs producing 20 AMPS or more, which covers almost everything, voltage doesn't matter. This patent should never have been granted and covers nothing new or novel. They just handicapped everyone in the tool industry chemistry progression from nicad to nimh to li-ion. Li-ion power packs existed long before the patent was filed. Surprised milwaukee is a patent troll, I'll be sure to not buy anymore of thier tools.
Hello,
What is the name, model number and voltage of the small Ridgid powered screw driver that you used to disassemble and assemble these battery packs?
im disappointed that every flex battery isn't 21700 if i made a new tool company to rival the big 3 brands I'd use all 21700 cells unless its for a brushed tool
Cost! They use 18650 cells because they're cheaper. You can't blame them if they're able to pull this much power out anyway. Thanks for watching.
Size and weight, as well as cost. 21700 cells make sense for batteries 6Ah or higher, and sometimes in 3Ah 1p configurations like the 3Ah Octane battery. But newer 18650 cells can deliver 25A-30A, making 21700 cells unnecessary until you hit 6Ah 2P packs. 21700 cells do run cooler, and have less voltage sag, so they are better for peak performance, but it’s not a huge difference, so it comes down the the engineering trade offs of cost, size, weight, and peak performance. Choose.
You can’t get more than 3000mAh in a high amperage 18650 cell at this time, so to exceed 6Ah, you have to go to a 3P design (like M18 HD9.0, and I believe the Octane 9.0) or 21700 cells in a 2P/3P configuration like every other 8+Ah power tool battery pack I know of.
@@geoffstrickler VERY well said Geoff
Not to mention now they have the stacked lithium batteries which I imagine are rather different inside. Plus, go with the cheaper batteries if you're going to be offering a lifetime warranty. The Flex batteries put out loads of power, enough to smoothly push my 12" miter saw and table saw.
Great video! That Ridgid palm driver is slick! Does Milwaukee make one as I'm in their platform? I did just order the Milwaukee 2505-22 M12. 😎😏
Yes, I love this little Ridgid pressure-sensitive tool. No, Milwaukee doesn't make one of these. Thanks for watching.
Great video I was just looking at the 25r to rebuild a pack and i guess its clear its a good choice. The interesting one would have been the rigid 5ah, might well have had 25r. The 3ah I am repairing are not marked.
That's interesting. Typically we can always find markings on the batteries today. Thanks for watching.
You will get much better results with a 25S, or if you want the highest possible output, the 20S
@@procrastinator1842 hard to find the 25S. The 20S is available if you wait for them to be in stock
I’d like to see the same video for the 21700 batteries. I know Milwaukee doesn’t use the same cells in all their HO batteries. The 6 AH and 8 AH have difference cells for example. I’d be curious to see the difference and what everyone else is using.
Sort of surprising Flex didn’t go with 21700’s right away.
Believe the 8 is using 40T cells and the 6 is using 30T cells
Great video..not too shabby...😊😊
Thank you! Cheers!
whats that ridgid tdriver you used to take apart the batteries. Never seen anyting like it before.
Tim, nice video, very informative.
Could you please can the swoosh noise? It’s really annoying with headphones on!!
THE BEST VIDEO ABOUT BATTERY'S EVER...
Very good information brother
We appreciate that. Thanks for watching.
Awesome video but not really anything not already available with a small amount of research. Where I think we need more information is in the features of the batteries and how they interact with the tools - not the difference between 18650 and 21700 cells. Obviously a bigger battery will have higher output. I want to know what the features of the battery management system are and how tool makers are interacting with their batteries. Also, while 5 of the 6 batteries had batteries rated at 20A continuous is that really necessary? How many amps does a tool draw under load? With Lithium cells there's always a tradeoff between capacity and max output.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.......I'm not sure I understand but is the only difference between the 18650 & 21700 the fuel tank? Power output is power output but having the 21700 batteries are like upgrading to a larger fuel tank that still has the same horsepower engine........ Please let me know if this is a correct statement. I don't know.
21700 will always win vs 18650 when it comes to performance related to brute power (max current). But from a capacity perspective, the manufacturing process has to evolve a little more to catch up with 18650s in regard to capacity per cell volume (energy density). 25Rs are the most used 18650s today in power tools. Batteries of mid-rage tools go for Sony V3s or newer than can also be 10A, not 20 like samsungs. Milwaukee stared with 12AH the use of 21700. Now they have 2x5 and 1x5 batteries with 21700s rated high output.
Not necessarily the 6amp flexvolt which has 18650 cells outperforms the 6amp 20v battery that has 21700 cells
@@loucifer4205 You can't outperform Samsung Ts with samsung Q/R/RMs. Your statement is absurd. Unless that18650 battery uses 4 rows of 18650 of 1500mAh, which are obsolete by now.
A pissing march is always bound to happen when two battery dorks cross swords😂
Great breakdown! I'm surprised at Flex; for all the hype, I expected something like the Samsung 21700 40T cells.
I hope there's a new line of batteries called High Output that uses those cells.
I don't think they need it at this point. They're pushing some major power with the 18650 cells. Thanks for watching.
Flex Tools currently has 4 sizes of batteries. 2.5 ah and 5.0 ah which both use the 18650 cells we saw here.
But like Milwaukee, they also have an 8.0 ah and 12.0 ah size batteries, and both of those sizes, just like Milwaukee, use the 21700 cell batteries.
Milwaukee identifies all of their batteries that have the 21700 cells as HO batteries or High Output.
This includes the 3.0 HO, the 6.0 HO along with the 8.0 and 12.0 I just mentioned above.
Flex has not added anything to the name of their batteries that indicates that they're using higher output cells but their 8.0 and 12.0 ah have the bigger cells.
Samsung 40T is in the larger 8Ah/12Ah packs.
I don't quite understand why everyone thinks you need 21700s in every single pack. Makes more sense to have some smaller packs with 18650s so you can put them on the smaller tools that don't really need 21700s in the first place.
The INR21700-40T isn’t a particularly good choice for a 1P pack design. Flex does (presumably, since I haven’t seen anyone disassemble one yet) use them in the 2P/3P 8.0/12.0Ah battery packs.
The -30T is used in the Ridgid Octane 3.0Ah and Milwaukee M18 CP3.0HO. While both of those cells are rated for 35A continuous drain, the 40T doesn’t actually deliver that consistently. Testing shows it can deliver 30A-32A but will struggle with that as it gets below 50% charge, while the 30T can sustain that until it’s nearly drained. The only pack that I’m aware that MIGHT use the -40T in a 1P battery is the Kobalt 24V 4Ah, but I don’t have confirmation of that, only saw a claim that it is a 1P configuration, and therefore, it might use the -40T.
Bosch Procore 4Ah is also a 1P pack using 40T cells, just with better heat conduction away from the cells.
Do you know about Makita 3.0Ah, What 18650 cell inside? Brand and type please.
Are you doing a rapid charger review next?
Metabo HPT 36V (Multivolt) are all 21700 cells the 36V batteries are backwards compatible with their 18V line(Unlike Makita 40V😥) and run 5.0 with their 18V tools 2.5 as a 36V-- the larger battery runs 8.0 for 18V and 4.0 for 36V
I haven't seen too much difference in run time between my 18V and 36V Metabo HPT batteries
They run much cooler with the 36V tools and significantly increase power with both 18V/36V tools
Was waiting for the top view to se what separates then and why more torque if it’s the same battery.
Reads the complex number rating,
"Tells me right away it's 18650"
I knew that already damn
On my DeWalt 20v platform, I only have one 18650 battery the 5ah one. Rest are all 21700.
Both DeWalt and Milwaukee are slowly phasing them out.
I wouldn't say they're phasing them out, but the high performance batteries definitely have the 21700 cells, for the most part.
I only say that, because in the case for DeWalt. The new 3ah And 4ah batteries are, 21700 cells. The old 3ah 18650 battery is discontinued. You can still get the 4 And 5ah batteries, but for how much longer?
I think eventually the 18650 cells will be relegated to the 12v line ups.
I know this is an old video, but could anyone tell me what the metal clips are that connect the battery terminals to the tool? I cannot for the life of me find these online. Thanks in advance!
Is like to know which specific batteries have low voltage protection built in! I believe Makita 18v 5 and 6ah do, but all the lower capacities seem to not!
That is a great question and one that we've been asking for years (not just Makita). It seems that some of the batteries/tools do very well with this, and some definitely do not. Thanks for watching.
NONE of the five major cell manufacturers produce a cell with protection on them. That is added when the battery is made from the cells. If you see a cell with a button top protection, it has been added afterwards and rewrapped, rebranded. Maybe Panasonic sells a button top but I don’t think so.
Very good video!
Thank you very much!
Hello my friend...i want to ask you... which batteries i take for my electric mini chainsaw....i have two batteries 20v dead...samsung inr 18650 or sony vtc6... which one of these batteries will give me more power ..can you please tell me
Very interesting!!! Thanks
Glad you liked it!Thanks for watching.
DEWALT IS NOT 20 VOLT! It's just marketing the 20V max... Here in europe they are labeled 18V. And their 12v line is 10.8V in here.
The difference is in measuring nominal voltage or not. Lithium cells usually are ~4v peak and 3.6 under load, so 3.6vx5 Is 18v and 4vx5 is 20v... That's where it comes from... P.s some Li battery chemistries (most of them) are actually 4.2v max 3.7v nominal
Which dewalt batteries have 21700 cells?
is flexvolt 21700 i know there are 2 different versions of flexvolt batteries onr has the yellow bottom one has the gray bottom the yellow bottom batteries come in the flexvolt advantage kits and the gray bottoms are on the shelf individually
18650s on the 6s
Look for the three little silver ‘stripes’ on top of the battery, each side, at the mounting area. This denotes 21700 cells, is what I have been told.
I’ve seen DeWALT DCB205 packs with cells from three different countries. Heck, I bought two from Tractor Supply Co and they both had different origins for cells.
Thanks for the breakdown, subscribed. Now a question; all but one are 5Ah batteries. Of those the most common cell capacity rating is 2500mAh, and there's 10 cells per battery. Doing simple math, 2500mAh x 10 = 25,000mAh / 1000 = 25Ah. I must be misunderstanding something, where am I going wrong? Is it because they're wired 5 in series so need to divide by 5?
Yes, the pack are in 2s5p configuration, 2 rows of 5 cells in series, so you get 2.5+2.5=5, in series the voltage adds up, not the capacity.
The cells are indeed in 5s2p configuration. 2 cells in parallel equates to 5ah. Essentially making one 5ah cell out of two 2.5 ah cells. Then those are series for 18v.
Hope that makes sense.
The way you're looking at it, would be every cell in the pack in parallel, and voltage would be 3.6 nominal or 4.2 max.
The output Amps is double what you're claiming. the 2p multiplies the amps by two, while the 5s or 6s multiplies the voltage by five or six. Any of these packs with 20A cells is outputting 40A continuous. Any with 15A cells is outputting 30A continuous. That's why the single row 1.3-2Ah batteries are so inadequate for serious use. They only have 15-20A of continuous discharge.
I've taken apart 5, or 6 Milwaukee m18, and all of them had samsung 15mm.
Capacity: 1500mAh
Discharging: 23A
Do you know how durable the Milwaukee battery is? I dropped one today from a ten foot ladder on concrete. It still worked and I kept using it right after. But now I’m concerned it might’ve been leaking and contaminated my clothes and skin. Would it leak and keep working? And would it leak liquid. I don’t notice anything right now, but I’m scared it might’ve been leaking on me while I was still using it.
Thanks!
I’ll check the battery when I go back to work tomorrow so maybe I’ll see a residue or something.
There really shouldn't be much liquid in these batteries. Lithium Ion is really not liquid. There could possibly be some goo, but your battery would definitely show signs of weakening. Thanks for watching.
@@Shoptoolreviews thank you for answering I appreciate it! I looked today and saw no signs. So it’s all good.
Good well informed video
That rigid tool. Is that pressure sensitive response? Freaking cool!
Yes it is! It's an awesome tool for breaking down tools and parts. Thanks for watching.
@@Shoptoolreviews oh dude, I've got to get me one! That's freaking sick... thanks a bunch!
Look out for AvE's BOLTR on the rigid palm impact.
Some Milwaukee tools do indeed take advantage of the higher amp output from the 21700 cells. And Makitas new 40v line uses the 21700. They got stuck with cell size because of their choice to do the x2 side by side 36v tools. They would have had backwards compatibility issues.
I think I'll build my own 21700 battery 18v pack for my Makitas using one of the DIY boxes from alie.
I'm a vaper so i use 18650s all the time so 18650 is smaller than 21700 each cell usually 4 volts charged but difference is mah so they wire in series up volts.
Excellent Tim !!! I concur with others in the comments a more expanded version of this video would be great! Thanks for putting this out. Very interesting. Again, I am not impressed with the FLEX brand battery. Looks like the Makita, DeWalt, and The Milwaukee are the best constructed batteries. I’m not too sure about the whole M18 Copyright issue that floats around on UA-cam, but I have it on good authority DeWalt chose the 20Volt nomenclature based on Marketing Hype, and to distinguish from the older 18 Volt batteries, both NiCd and the LiIon post batteries they made. Like others have mentioned, I do take issue with Makita on not only their outright refusal to go with some 21700 celled batteries, but to come out with the.XGT line, and not make it backwards compatible!? DeWalt and Metabo HPT didn’t seem to have any problems doing it? Makita just won’t admit that it would potentially open up issues with compatibility with existing tools, and not having the space for the bigger batteries, namely the X2 tools. Stay safe and Healthy! 👏🏻👍👍👍👍👍😁✌🏻🇺🇸
We do share a lot of your concerns and comments as well, especially concerning Makita. It will be interesting to see what the near future holds with battery technology. The more that the auto manufacturers push electric, the more the tool industry will take backseat to the Lithium supply. Thanks for watching.
do video on all the 21700 cell
Any one know why the Flex battery is double the weight? 2 more cells should make it 1.2lbs not 2lbs…
The samsung 25r have a 100 Amp pulse discharge as well.
I am surprised none of them use the Sony VTC5A Cells. They are very popular with people who vape using the higher powered mod boxes (2-4 cells) because they not only have 2600mAH but also 25A continuous discharge rating, so even with a high powered vape pulling around 200 watts, the batteries tend to barely even get warm. They would give any of these manufacturers an edge over the competition in 18650-powered packs.
Samsungs probably have better cycle life. And when you're selling batteries with a 3 year warranty then cycle life is more important so you don't commit yourself to excess battery replacements.
@@jaywelker5566 Thats a good thought but all the OEM 18650 manufacturers make good cells that last. Ive gad my VTC5As for about 3 years and they still work like new. I think its simply cost. You can get 25Rs for $6 each while VTC5As are $8 each so if a consumer wanted to make a 24V 5.2AH battery with 12 x VTC5As it would be $96 just for the cells alone... Oooof lol I could easily see a $150 priced battery with those cells in it.
@@jaywelker5566 Correct
Samsung are damn good batteries
Did a few tear downs like this for the 18650 for my flashlights and other stuff
Yes, Samsung does a very good job with their batteries. Thanks for watching.
The new 6ah and 10ah Dewalt batteries are also 21700 cells I believe... About to go confirm...
DeWalt starts using the 21700 cells in their 20V 8 & 10 Amp/Hr as well as their 9 & 12 Amp/Hr FlexVolt batteries. I’m not positive of what cells are on the 20V 6 Amp/Hr battery. The 20V 5 Amp/Hour and down 2 stack batteries as well as 1.3, 1.5, & 2 Amp/Hr single stack batteries use 18650. The 20V 3 & 4 Amp/Hr single stack batteries also use 21700. The 6 Amp/Hr FlexVolt battery uses 18650 cells. The FlexVolt batteries all use 3 cell stacks of 5 either with the stacks in parallel for 20V or series for 60V. The 20V batteries can come in either a single or double stack of 5; some newer DeWalt tools can take advantage of the increased power capabilities of the larger 2 stack and 3 stack batteries. DeWalt only calls them 20 a Volt Max in the US/American market in the UK and EU DeWalt calls them 18 Volt Max.
This is probably already mentioned, but as far as i've read, and seen all the 18v = 20v. It's all marketing. But I have some from each brand, and they all start at about 20v fully charged and go down to about 18v nominal. Flex 24v is probably different though.
Happy to essentially conclude that they are all the same thing. The Snap On is $$$$$ while the makita is $$$$ DeWalt and Milwaukee $$$, Flex is apparently a Lowe’s house branded tool, which I know barely more than nothing about, but they seem to be lower priced.
Rigid being Home Depot’s captive offering, with solid worthiness but a questionable lifetime warranty. My experience was met with BS excuses such as still possessing the ORIGINAL printed receipt!!!! A tool I used plastic to purchase, which was supposed to be my iron clad proof of purchase, purchase price, time, date etc. Thankfully the rest of the Rigid tools I have haven’t had any problems.
My Makita replaced the original Craftsman drills I began with in 2001. The sears battery tools endured till I decided to get top notch gear instead. Now I’m fully armed to the teeth with the Makita 18v system that one and all still perform great.
Is the makita 6.0 the same as the 5.0?
No, it's a 6.0. Thanks for watching.
@@Shoptoolreviews thank you do you have a video on that ?
Same configuration (5S2P, 18650) but other, less current cells. So better for low power high endurance jobs.
Who's shop has more echo?
Who's?
Basically comes down to the electronics they add for fail safe
Old dewalt used A123 cells 50A discharge current,120A peak.
Wow, that's impressive...120A peak discharge. Thanks for watching.
The funny thing is that the Makita charges it faster (45min for the 5ah) wich is way less than the rest. In any case, most of them output an 800w figure. No wonder why a cordless drill feels so powerfull; A 650w bosh corded drill was a big deal back in the day
20V batteries are usually capable of outputting 60A continuously. 1.2kW is the most common figure. usually cutting tools are hugging that limit
With the exception of the flex, they are all just 18 volts, even the dewalt.
Bosch and Ryobi please
The numeric designation denotes the diameter, length, and shape. 18650 = 18mm diameter, 65mm length & 0 means it's cylindrical
Ridgid uses 21700 cells in there 3amp hour octane pack.
Now if I could just make a battery go cart with some of these batteries
So disappointing to see the Sony 15A cells in the Octane rather than the LG 20A or a 21700 cell.
We'll do some more digging to see what else we uncover. Thanks for watching.
I swear makita was using Sony cells but I guess they must’ve changed. My Milwaukee 3.0 Xc battery and Milwaukee 2.0 cp were both using LG cells and the the 2.0 had 25 amp rated cells while the xc 3.0 used 20 amp cells
Makita use sony VTC cells in their 6.0 pack.
Makita has used both Sony cells, as well as LG cells in the past, Brynnon. I too was surprised at that!
We've definitely seen the different tool companies change battery cells, so it's not uncommon. Thanks for watching.
Look at the bottom of the battery, the cell origin is Malaysia or Korea, it is Samsung cell, if Singapore, it is sony
Technically the Dewalt is 18V nominal like all the others except Flex. They use 20V Max* for marketing. And Flex is 21.6V nominal and 24V Max
That's what we said. Thanks for watching.
@ Ezra Waters additionally, if you didn't know, Milwaukee trademarked the 18 volt tool battery size. So anyone that uses that size in the name of their cordless tools is required to pay Milwaukee a royalty fee. This is also why DeWalt calls their batteries and tools 20 volt tools. All to get around paying Milwaukee that fee.
Craftsman used to do the same with their 19.2 volt CP line of tools.
It's really the same thing as Milwaukee's 18 volt line but by calling it something else you don't have to pay additional fees to your competition.
@@El_Diablo_LI none of this patent rumor stuff is true. And that's not why Dewalt call them 20V either. (they're labeled 18V in EU/AU/UK anyways, and that's because of their government regulation, not because they care about some nonexistent patent from another American company)
It's not marketing stupid, then what is 12v they are 10.8v
Mate rip apart the Milwaukee high output battery!! They are 21700!
Interesting, makita usually uses Sony cells. But they realistically have the same performance.
It seems to me the tool battery cells are still fairly primitive on there own when you take away all the tech, microchips and all that connect to them. They are still the same shape and heavy. I’m waiting for the time when they begin to really shrink in size and still maintain the power as fell phone batteries have done.
Phone batteries are bigger today than a lot of phone batteries in the early 2000s, as today's phones require way more power. Just like how power tools require way more power than a cell phone. Tool batteries might still be big and heavy, but they're significantly more powerful and longer lasting than the old ones.
We’re the Bosch one
All the top brand use the same cell. You should of choose some of the cheaper brand like ryobi or kobalt or harbor freight brand
The batteries I've taken apart are MILWAUKEE 5ah was Samsung
DEWALT 5AH had LG CHEM CELLS 2000mah
HITACHI 5AH had SANYO CELLS 2600mah
MASTER FORCE 4AH SONY CELLS. 2100mah
if using lithium polymer drone battery. the energy expended is certainly much greater than the 18650.
True, but you don't find Li-Po batteries on powertools. Mostly Li-Ion. Thanks for watching
Samsung 25R 18650's or 30T or 40T 21700's are the best money can buy.
Definitely on the top of the heap. Thanks for watching.
Now I've watched it, I'm not surprised they all run 25R's, great battery for the price. The VTC6 are a little more "posh" and are still a great battery (cost more too). The VTC4 used to be in EVERYTHING but they were only 2000mAh. The VTC5A were 2500mAh and 30A, but they cost about 20-30% more than their 25R counterparts. Would be very interesting to see a 25R pack go against a VTC5A pack. both 2500mAh but the Sony has up to 10A extra on discharge rate.
With 21700's the Samsung 30T is 3000mAh and 35A and the 40T is 4000mAh and 35A*
Obviously these batteries are more dense thus produce more pixies.
*if kept under 80c where it drops to 25A.
The Sony VTC6 can do 30A up to 80 degrees C. it says in the datasheet
How many of them 18650’s do I need to make me a 4 second 0-60mph go cart with a 300 mile range
We have Snap-On but no Kobalt 🥴🥴
Kobalt would use the same as Flex though Chervon babies 😁.
Kobalt uses 18650 and they have 21700 in the ultimate output batteries that are unicorns for the XTR lineup
Thanks Tim
Thanks for watching.
I am surprised that Teslas are full of thousands of these small battery cells. I would have thought electric car battery cells would be the size of beer cans. My point being, in a cell phone the lithium batteries are flat and tiny. Tool batteries are larger due to the power load. So why aren’t car battery cells scaled up in size? Strange... at least too me.
The reasoning behind using cells instead of prismatic blocks (you can get 400 amp hour prismatic beasts) is the 18650 allows better cooling of the battery material for a longer life and safer operation at high current discharges. Their newest tabless NMC cells are 4680 9 Ah cells or 46mm in diameter and 80mm long. They were able to get the internal resistance down enough that those cells can crank out the amps without getting hot. The 900 KW/h battery pack option in their semi has a massive amount of those cells. Now THAT is the cell I'd want for my next tool pack, they can handle 5,000 cycles completely drained and speed charged and would probably outlast the tool. Maybe in a few years some tool company could get those cells, I'm not holding my breath though.
They should be called 13 to 15 volt batteries because once under load that's what they are putting out
Who uses the best materials to make the battery that would be snap on they use pure .3mm pure nickel high end plastic and components Milwaukee uses nickel plated copper which is better then pure nickel
I’m happy to see you wore rubber gloves, but then I see that metal watch band and think facepalm:/
Has anyone had yellow fluid come out of their battery 🔋
You have?
I dropped a battery pack today from a height of ten feet on concrete. Is still worked and I kept using it but I’m concerned perhaps it was leaking gas or liquid. I didn’t notice anything yellow though.
dewalt flex volt and milwaukee highoutput is 21700
The funny thing is that RIGID has the best batteries. VTC6 have the lowest voltage drop (very important parameter at high loads!). The 25R are good batteries, but not the best! I wonder what's inside the Hikoki / Metabo HPT. The new 18V battery packs look like 21700.
The 2170 cells were developed by Tesla and Panasonic for the model 3. (If I'm the thousandth commenter to point that out, do i get a prize?)
Soooooooo, basically.....they are all the same??? Excluding the Ridgid.....but I thought Milwaukee and Ridgid were made at the same facility???????
I think they all buy large batches of batteries and you get what you get. TTi is the mother ship behind Ryobi, Ridgid, and Milwaukee, but they definitely have their differences. Thanks for watching.
More dangerous to put the metal table than wearing gloves
you can touch them
it won’t kill you
i work on these all the time
Dewalt flexvolt 6,9,12 are just normal 18650 cell
some of their XR using 21700
you can tell they are much wider and bigger
Samsung 25R are quite decent
Sony VTC6 better quality with less discharge
most tools draw below 15A except some of bigger saw
The dewalt battery is an 18v battery. They just dont want to pay Milwaukee royalties for putting 18v on the side of their batteries so they put 20v max.
Yes, and No. They went to 20V Max for marketing purposes and to separate themselves from the old 18V Post packs they used prior. Thanks for watching.
Where are you people getting this idea that Milwaukee gets royalties for lithium batteries did they invent lithium batteries? No , snap on got in trouble for making batteries that would work on their tools and Milwaukee so stop with the royalties bullshit already if anything black and decker were the first company to make battery operated tools so if any company would get royalties it would be them
@@loucifer4205 No buddy said anything about them getting royalties for lithium batteries. It was about putting 18v on the side of the battery.
@@Skwish6952 dewalt had 18v on their batteries long before Milwaukee
FLEX is 120wh battery its a 36v or 40v flex face off was rigged from the get
People keep claiming "rigged", but they don't seem to have any evidence of such. I'm all eyes and ears if you have any. Thanks for watching.
They should have put it against the Metabo HPT 36V and the Makita 40V , 60V Dewalt and the German Metabo ad those tools are better performers than many of the Flex tools-the 18V tools are older tech for the most part--when they claim "best"it should be each brands best- Milwaukee is the exception as they are only using 18V still
How in the world do you not have Bosch in that Group? Did you not want the participants this group to be beat ? Cmon now this is ridiculous
Yup its 18650s vape or laptop 💻 cells they power the Tesla too
you forgot 2 boys ryobi and kobalt
Yeah, we didn't want to include EVERY battery, so we had to cut it somewhere. Thanks for watching.
@@Shoptoolreviews LOL true
A bit disappointed to see regular nickel-plated steel connecting those - they chose the cheapest components. Bosch batteries seem to be significantly better built than all of these.