11.5 vs 13.9 Accuracy
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- Today we put the Faxon 11.5" barrel up on paper against the Bear Creek 13.9". We used our primary work load of Tula 55gr and 62gr as well as a couple rounds of Freedom Munitions 77gr. I plan on doing some more of these kind of tests as I workout what's going on with this barrel. If you've got any questions just post them below or his me up on the Instagram. Enjoy!
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Glad to see tula is still shooting Minute of Viking. My work is done here.
"Maybe it's the Tula.." 😂
Could have been a lot of things, it was frustrating whatever it was 😏
Buy once cry once, don’t ever skimp on a barrel or a BCG.
Different barrels like different ammo...no real rhyme or reason, no two barrels are identical. However, Tula and Bear aren't exactly known for accuracy or consistency either. I built my son a "pistol" using a BCA 10.5" barrel that is 416R, .223 Wylde Chamber with 1:7 twist. I bought two of the barrels so I could build off of one just like it. When I get home I'll help him zero his and do some accuracy testing and get back with you on it. Barrels are a strange animal. Even nice barrels all seem to prefer specific loads and hate others. That shorty built for my son was really made for just hitting 100 and less, so anything outside that is a win...PLUS, the barrel was ridiculously inexpensive. I already don't expect much for super accuracy...just want consistency. If I get to compete in the TG it will have to be a performer or I'll not carry it. If it won't perform, I'll pull that barrel and build on another...or use a different one I already have that is accurate. Just me personally, I'm not cutting on a barrel. Too much to go wrong. Cheaper to buy another when you consider all the time it takes to cut one down...and it might shoot like crap afterward anyway. Thanks for the vid Caleb.
Solid points Rob. I agree with you how barrels can be wildly different than others. I’ve got a no-name barrel that shoots everything and then there’s this Faxon one that I obviously haven’t found it’s sweet spot yet.
I have the same BCA barrel. I love it. Very accurate. Was skeptical because of the price and still can't figure out why they're so cheap yet the quality is pretty good
It’s definitely partly the ammo but there’s a problem with the 11.5 for sure. Could be the upper receiver isn’t trued or is a loose fit around the barrel extension, maybe barrel nut isn’t properly torqued, the headspace is sloppy, the crown could be bad. Try swapping the two barrels to the other receivers to see if there’s anything to that and also check the crown. You know.. if you got time for all that.
Your right. A lot of people dont consider that.
As soon as I saw you were shooting Tula I knew you were going to have accuracy issues.
Have you shot Tula for groups? You may be surprised by how it can perform.
@@CalebDowning yes, I bought a bunch of Tula. It never groups as good as every other brand I have tried.
Happy Independence Day! Ya gotta shoot better ammo man, Tula is THE worst ammo for groups! All barrels like different grains of ammo and different brands perform significantly better than others. I have found that Barnaul is the best steel-cased ammo for a budget, otherwise pony up and spend some money on some decent quality ammo and that barrel will do just fine once you find which grain weight it likes. Just my 2 cents...
Solid points but I will challenge that Tula is as bad as many make it out to be. It might not be a “target” load but I rarely(I can’t remember the last one) get failures to fire from a bad powder or primer.
Not it doesn’t shoot as well as some other loads but as you can see in the video, my other loads didn’t fair so well either. 🤷♂️ I don’t know...
I respect your position though.
@@CalebDowning My point wasn't to say that Tula won't fire or always go bang, it's just VERY inconsistent, as you saw. As soon as you used your 77gr ammo, you saw those groups tighten right up! :) I'm not saying don't use Tula, just not for accuracy is all, cause it's 5-6 MOA ammo, and that's the only thing consistent about it. ;) Have a great day my brother!
@@CalebDowning from my rosco 11.5 1:7 carbine gas, more accurate with heavier bullet. Mine likes 75gr, wish my gun liked tula, but it don't.
I did a 13.9" Criterion Core/headspaced BCM bolt build and it shot AAC 5.56 v-max 55gr erratic as fuck. It shot IMI 55gr FMJ tighter than the Vmax. Some barrels just don't like some loads.
Got sub MOA out of AAC 69gr HPBT same day from a hot barrel (not their SMK load, I guess its AAC's own projectile, the cheaper option) and it also grouped 1-1.25" with AAC 75gr Sabre black tip. 🤷♂️
This was with a PA 1-6 SLx. I'll try Frontier 5.56 69gr BTHP and one or two other loads like IMI 77gr razercore while I still have the scope on it just out of curiosity, but fifty cents per round for 3/4 MOA with the 69gr is 👌. The gun has a T2/Unity Riser and a modlite PLHv2 waiting for it, build is basically an accurized, go-to fighting rifle/home defense/property defense/truck/etc. Just testing some ammo for it with the LPVO.
Ya some barrels can shoot the snot out of Tula, some just hate it. But that's pretty much the case with any different barrel vs different cartridge loadings.
True 👍
Well sir, first off Happy 4th🇺🇸👍 I do not have a clue! I have a Faxon pencil barrel 10.5 1 in 8 twist, she is one MOA all day long with 55 gr. I have shot Tulammo in her but, never really for group. So, I just could not say what the groups would be.....but, I would be shocked if they were that big with a red dot let alone a 10x scope. As for as pencil barrel accuracy. That is not going to be an issue on short barrels. Hang a can on a 16", it might be. You could always just get BCA full profile barrel for cheap in 223 Wylde. They will shoot better than that. Hope you figure it out👍🇺🇸
It’s a head scratcher 🤔 But I do like a challenge. I’m tempted to get another BCA barrel and see how it shoots compared to this. The BCA I had in the video has been cut so it’s definitely inside the realm of possibilities that I messed it up. I haven’t touched the Faxon though.
I’ll keep working on it though, somethings gonna work or I’m gonna be swapping out barrels 😁
@@CalebDowning Well sir, I have never seen an AR that would not hold a minimum of 2ish MOA. Keep us posted, if I can help let me know.....unfortunately I build 5-10 a month. That has me scratching my Texas @$$👍🇺🇸
I’ll keep y’all posted as I work on it 👍 Thanks for chiming in man!
Great video Caleb! The other day I noticed my Tula wasn't shooting like other stuff. I have a full size factory barrel on a DMSP Panther.
Thanks Kirby 😁,
Some guns just don’t like the “light weight” bulk stuff 🤷♂️ I’m gonna try some of my hand loads and see how they function.
Those 77’s shot pretty good, I’ve never got groups with fast twist barrels and lite bullets
That's why you get an AKM 556.
I am dripping sweat. On my sig cross i had this shop put my break on before i went to the range. I looked back and he had a long bar sticking through the holes in the break to get it timed.... im nervouse he over did it
I thought you were gonna claim you put 3 in the same perfect hole. I'm bad, but I ain't that bad.
Haha, o no 😄 This was far from that 😅🤦♂️
Cool seeing someone using the PDQ.. Have them on a few builds.. RIP to Mr Brotherton (Creator of the PDQ)..
I love these things 👍
I didn’t know about Mr Brotherton 🙍♂️
Ive seen this before. I bet your rifling in the barrel is defective. It's shooting like a smooth Bore. I would have a gunsmith look at it with a Bore snake.
I would try some run of the mill brass case plinking offerings. Just some plain Jane m193 spec type offerings (55 grain fmj brass case whether it be in 223 or 5.56). I definitely wouldn’t judge the accuracy potential on that barrel because it shot Tula bad. Just a thought.
Not a bad suggestion. Off camera since making the video I have tried some different loads and none of them were really stellar 😏
Tula is minute of barn... invest in BH 77 grain for your SD and comp ammo or buy a JP upper.
Great honest video, I think you have a bad 11.5 inch barrel. I would wait for BCM to make a new run of 11.5 inch uppers. If you can buy one of those bad boys and you will have good times ahead.
True that, that’s a lot of dough though 😬🤑
Sometimes the cost is worth it though...
I have the Faxon 11.5” mid and it shoots great no issues. I really think it’s the cheap ass ammo you’re using.
11.5 barrel issue got figure out?
Not really. I tried two barrels and they both shot pretty crappy.
@@CalebDowning wow wonder what’s happening
🤷♂️ I wanted it to work. It was lightweight and very soft shooting but dang it wasn’t accurate.
@@CalebDowning damn that sucks I have criterion core 11.5 is pretty accurate not to far from 13.95 k9 Rosco
$#!+ groups from steel-cased Tula? SHOCKER
I have 2 faxons. One it just fine the other is a 18" gunner and that thing hates xm193(looks like a shotgun pattern) but does ok with steel case stuff. With higher quality ammo the 18" shoots just over an inch.
So it could just be that the barrel just doesn’t like that ammo. That wouldn’t surprise me 😏
Did you use a crush washer when shouldn’t have? I’ve seen this exact thing happen when a customer installed a Q cherry bomb and added a crush washer. Removed the washer and it fixed the issue.
I believe I had shims on the Faxon. I even tried it with no muzzle device at all and the accuracy was still trash 🚮😏
You should get a torque wrench and make sure your barrel nut is tightened down properly. I think it's recommended in between 40 and 80 pounds Me personally I wouldn't go any under 60.
👍
You should maybe take a look at headspace. Try a JP bolt they have the tightest tolerances
i mean.. shooting tula for goups is like taking a geo metro to a drag race... i stopped shooting that crap years ago, cheap brass .223 and even 5.56 isnt THAT much more expensive.
Trash ammo out of a trash barrel. What did you expect ?
agree on the ammo but the couple of faxon barrels i have, have been pretty accurate Id def be contacting them if this was the results i was getting though.
I’ve had the same problem with Tula, first time shooting it In my ar shoot pretty nice. Next time to the range it couldn’t hit a 7x12 ar 500 coyote target.
😁
Freedom 9mm I got had squibs. Haven’t used their shit since.
What handguard is that? I cant make out the logo....looks cool!...
Also I wanted to say I know several people with faxon barrels that are very similar to your experience......
Really...So it’s not just me then 🤔 hmm
Caleb Downing no its not just you at all.... Im not knocking them but I never see one that can shoot ragged holes.... time will tell though thanks for sharing all that!!
My humble two cents is to hang on to the 13.9 unless there’s no need for that platform anymore? I agree that you want an 11.5 for its lightness and mobility but not sacrificing accuracy. I rather see you get another 11.5 barrel and use the same ammo to see if it’s the Tula.
I’ve already cut the 11.5” but I’m on the hunt for a solid factory 11.5” at a reasonable price. Let me know if you find anything 🤔
Caleb Downing finding something in stock versus finding for a good value might be a challenge. I have a feeling we’re going to be short on stock till the new year.
I believe your right 😏😢 It’s that time of the 4 year cycle...
@@CalebDowning gander outdoors has complete Aero M4E1 11.5 uppers in stock for $385 right now
Caleb, taxon makes an 11.5 with 1\8 twist. Middle myth that is pretty damn good. About $155
Tac games competitor as well. I swear by criterion barrels!! Check out their "core series".
I’ll do that, thanks Kris!
Horrible accuracy shooting Tula who woulda thought
Haha, ya right 😂
Faxon will warranty the barrel. Contact them and talk to Customer Service.
Do you have one of these barrels?
@@CalebDowning definitely curious with what happens on your accuracy. Keep us updated. Dont cut barrel right away. Call faxon and see if they will send you a replacement. I have heard people do it. Have you tried other ammo?
I’ve tried other ammo and it all seems to shoot about 3-4” at 100 yds. I think I might try contacting them and see if they’ll replace it 🤔
I have a Faxon 16" gunner barrel with the permanent skinny comp that the gas block fits over. I picked it up for my WWSD2018 build and it shoots better than 1" groups at 100 yards with good quality ammo.
I probably got a lemon then. I’m hoping that’s the case 🤞
Honestly, it looks like both barrels are not that great. The 13.9 wasn’t that impressive at 36yards.
It's that EOTech. It's garbage! You should send it to me do I can dispose it.
Haha, ok sure 😉😁
I can’t in good faith allow any of my brethren to use such a thing...ill dispose of it properly.
(CAUTION:This is more longer and borin than my last episode of Ramblin by rick)
Man, I'm far from expert, ok, maybe not that far, but in my personal experience I've had weapons all over the paper and plug in some Federal usually, especially match grade and it's like a different weapon. Years ago when I was kinda nudged into a sniper program, as in "pack up. You're gonna be a sniper". Not police counter sniper. I was shooting 308 thru a first gen Savage 110FP. 7 or 9lb non-adjustable trigger. A spec ops dude knew a dude who knew a dude that built an amazing trigger for it. With a set trigger that popped out of the center of the trigger when you pushed it forward. Looks like an Accutrigger when it's out but zero pounds of pressure. Ok, maybe one pound. Neway that was my first experience where ammo made such a difference. I was told, correct me if I'm wrong, that the Federal ammo, at least the match grade, that all the shells in a box were not random loads. Powder, primers, bullets, cases all came from same batch. For obvious reasons. All I know is their 168gr match BTHP had my rookie self outshooting some pros. Who acted like spoiled kids with their mega thousand dollar custom setups. They HAD laughed at my Savage. Final exam in the urban sniper, 100yd segment, was cover a 100yds and put 3 under a quarter in 40 seconds. I didn't want to disrespect anybody but there just ain't a lot of variables at a hundred yards. At least not 3 weeks worth. Well, maybe for them city boys but not for hillbilly that been runnin loose in the woods with long guns since he was bout 6 or 7. However old I was when I was tall enough to keep both ends off the ground at the same time. We were "dirt poor" but always had guns and ammo. May be a correlation there somewhere. Still have the rifle and that target. Gave up the sniper gig, tell ya bout it sometime. My background, and still several times a year even now, was close protection, CQB kinda stuff in beautiful far away lands. Well, I flew over some beautiful parts and the brochures looked nice. I definitely wernt no Chris Kyle kinda guy. Ain't no wuss and could make the shots but like I said it ain't nuthin like police sniper.
Guess I shuda waited till end of video for ya to solve the accuracy mystery. Sorry for mini series comment. Again. Been up startin 3rd day. Pain and PTSD peggin the meter so I'm in the hyper zone at this hour, 11:35am. CST. Damn, that can't be right. Anyway, good vid so far and I bout had a heat stroke just watchin ya at that tactical games event.
Oops, gettin in irregular heartbeat zone. Note to self: chew baby asprin. Not good at 66 even tho I'm almost over the spinal fusion of August 2018. 30th surgery and hardest to get past, if I ever do. Back is now stable, got back nearly 2 inches in height. 5 compressed discs now seperated. Lost over 40lbs and wasn't carrying fat even tho I'm just 5'9" and back up to 220. This is 4th time I've had to start over from scratch. Took a year to learn to walk again after the shattered pelvis event.
Sheite, now I'm really ramblin. Hey it's 4th of July and this is my celebration for the day cause hopefully I'm gettin sleepy and bout to crash. Or die. If you don't get next chapter in this series......well, you know. Reach out to my wife. You do NOT want to miss her yard sale of 50yrs of my important necessary "stuff" collection. She keeps tellin me to make a list of what this stuff is worth but that mite hasten my demise as I may have been less than truthful about the $250 ARs, FNs, Glocks and the NODs and thermal imagers. Body armor, medic gear, the big boy toys. Sale shud be epic. Hate to miss it. Take care. The bad thing is almost here. Dark times ahead. L8r.
Love you “episodes” man 😁 Don’t apologize forever the long windedness, I can relate 👍
Hang in there man!
Hey man send me that barrel and Ill make it shoot bug holes with reloads..... I think the barrel is fine it just is picky which is not a big deal
Ya, I think I’m gonna have to find a good handload if I really want it to shoot tight groups. It is still relatively new so I’m holding on to the thread of hope that it’ll settle in 🤞😬
I haven’t been impressed by the faxon barrels I’ve used. I stopped buying them.
Yeah for tests like this you really should use good standard ammo not steel cased Tula or wolf. That Russian shits cheap for a reason!!
1) your left arm should be crossed over to help with recoil and body movement
2) always use a torque wrench so you're not over tightening anything without question
3) good informative video
Your gas system is fugged. Muzzle device doesn't affect accuracy, bullet has already left the barrel before the muzzle device comes into play. Might be a marred barrel but you can see that with your eyes.
Yup. I really wanted the 11.5” barrel/mid length gas system to work, but it didn’t 😏
And true observation on the muzzle device. Unless the device was over tightened and squeezed the muzzle then it shouldn’t really effect anything.
@@CalebDowning That's why I stick to basic complete upper or complete lower. I don't trust myself enough to assemble a barrel and gas system at each step. Found your vids cause I have started the process of buying ADM parts. God bless 'Murrica.
1:7 twist rate like the 75 and 77 grain, sorry you have a barrel that has expensive taste
Theres no way thats a criterion barrel…
I just stumbled upon this so I have no context as to what's going in, ie, you're a competitive shooter, rifle builder, with lots of other experience with cheap steel ammo?? I mean, it's common knowledge that its unpredictable right? Couple that with your short barrel and there ya have it.
The material the case is made of is irrelevant, but the fact it is bulk/cheap ammo does mean it is usually not if the highest quality. In general my rifles/pistol will shoot 1-2” groups with this ammo.
The length of the barrel is also relatively irrelevant at this range. The projectile has plenty of time to stabilize and at 100 yds it hasn’t dropped off much of its velocity.
There are a lot of factors to that go into accuracy, I’ll give you that 👍
@@CalebDowning I've honestly never shot anything under 11.5. I just know cheap ammo has been unpredictable case to case for me. Maybe the barrel harmonics did get tweaked somehow. I'm not well versed enough in that kind of stuff. Whatever it is, I hope ya get figured out. I'll check out your other videos later too. 👍
Thanks for not being argumentative, it’s hard to sense folks tone on here sometimes 😏
Harmonics is one reason a shorter barrel “can” shoot better than a longer one. A shorter barrel will be effected less by barrel whip(it’s shorter therefore stiffer) and in the same respect it won’t be “as” effected by heat as a longer barrel.
And cheaper/bulk/surplus ammo does tend to be looser on their quality control.
Bruh 4 MOA is M4 accurate
And that’s why Mil-Spec is not a gold standard 😏
HAHAHAHA I don’t mean to poke fun, but did you really think Tula wasn’t the problem? It’s great, cheap training ammo but how did you not realize it’s the Tula? If you’re active on any forums you’ve had to come across it at some point, and you seem knowledgeable too when you mention tightening the muzzle device too hard.
I also think there’s a chance your optic isn’t perfectly zero’d, but your Mk262 group was a group compared to the Tula.
I’ve got deferent opinions on Tula than most folks I guess. I actually find it to be as consistent as most other “range quality” ammo.
I have personally gotten sub-moa groups with Tula, on film nonetheless, so I know what it’s “capable” of 🤷♂️ And I would say it shouldn’t be used in competitions but I was able to take 4th with it at the Tactical Games earlier this year.
So it doesn’t have the best reputation in the “forums” but my personal experience of tens of thousands of rounds tells me that it should shoot decent groups.
But like you said, the MK262 clone definitely shot a better group. 👌
Caleb Downing Yeah I agree that Tula is consistent! I’ve been shooting a lot of Tula this year because I found a slew of barrels that I love for pretty cheap with the money I saved, but I don’t let my Tula groups get to my head. Every once in a while I’ll let myself shoot some Fiocchi 5.56 to get a good grouping, but it’s really hard to beat Tula right now.
Sub-moa with Tula is pretty damn good shooting 👍🏻
If your gonna cut the 13.9 down . Do 12.5 .
I already have a 12.5. It’s an excellent barrel. It’s actually the one I ran at my first real competition and it served me very well. I’m hesitant to cut it again though. I like the length of the 11.5, something about it just looks “right” 🤷♂️
@@CalebDowning is your 13.9 a mid or car length. 12.5 Mid with a Can is smooth setup .
My 13.9” is a mid and my current 12.5” is a carbine.
@@CalebDowning I wouldn't bother cutting it down then . Your just gonna need to use better ammo on the Faxon to perform well . Have you tried grouping the Faxon with M193 to see if it performs well . I have a Faxon SS Nitride 556 that shoots 1.5 MOA or better with Hornady / Frontier M193.
Yea the Freedom 77g BTHP used to be the shit back in the day . You could get those new for 65 cents and reman for 50 cents a round . I picked up 1000 of those 6 years ago . I still have 300 of so left. I bought 500 new and 500 reman. Super accurate with both. I don't think they even make them anymore
I’ve got some 193’s, I’ll try them next outing. I’ve also got some handrolled 62/77gr loads I want to try out.
Barrel twist ...
1-8
You're shooting Tula and expecting top tier results?! 🤪 If you want top notch accuracy you need to spend the money on match grade ammo and barrels!
Like Black Hills and such I guess 😏
If it cant handle steel, it doesnt deserve brass
💪
Something is wrong with that barrel lol…
Most definitely 😏
Tula ammo is dog shit. Free floated barrel and locked into a Vice you should be 1” with good ammo. Not sure why you would use steel case
💰that’s why 😉
But seriously, with all the shooting I’ve done I can say that Tula, Wolf and some other steel cased ammo all work comparably to “range grade” brass but at a fraction of the cost. I’ve shot competitions with all steel cased ammo and did very well. It’s not as bad as some folks out there try and make it out to be.
Caleb Downing I’ve shot 556 rifles since 1996 and I’ve only fired around 200 rounds of steel case, it doesn’t function well for me. I’ve shot 100,000 rounds of brass case ammo and about 20,000 handloads I’ve made and never had one malfunction with the stuff I made. Wolf lacquered case would jam in my Colts after 1-2 shots back in day, I did try Tula and I had primers that would pop out. Of course I don’t shoot as much now due to no ammo anywhere but when things go back to normal I’ll just buy brass...my AK74 is what I shoot the steel in. AR barrels will wear out twice as fast with steel cased Russian ammo.
Brass cased is good, quality hand loads are better, I’ve got no argument there. Each to their own 🤷♂️
Just sell it
Use good ammo
I learned this guy is an average shooter who buys cheap ammo😬.
Yup 👍
@@CalebDowning lol, I subscribed 🍻
Thanks Derek 👊🏻
Lol complaining about accuracy using tula
Haha, I know right 😂
Haha, I know I know 😁
😒
The feelings mutual 😏
Dude makes a video about crap accuracy… tests accuracy on camera with the cheapest, crappiest low quality ammo you can get. Genius.
💡😃
Shit ammo gives shit results.
So what does it mean when you get good groups with crap ammo? Is that a double negative thing or something 🤔🤷♂️