To caption the obvious, when I say “best” it is my subjective opinion. 😁 Edit: as it’s been almost 2 years since this video has been made, I seem to have stuck my foot in my mouth. As suppressing them is exactly what I did. Surefire RC2. And they are awesome. Though less manageable as you would expect when shooting from a barricade or the inside of a car etc. But everything is a trade off. That said, 12.5 is still the GOAT 🐐 🙌🏻 I double down on this
My research and combat training has led me to view the 12.5 as the best overall length as well... self defense, urban close quarters combat, moderate distance battle field combat, operation from a vehicle, effective power or velocity, reliability with a mid length gas tube and sufficient dwell time... the 12.5 may not be the best at any of those, but can do all of those pretty well. I am looking to buy probably a Zion15 12.5" in 5.56 this week. Is the Socom barrel better than the government profile... I don't know. I don't know why 10.5" has become sort of the standard in ar pistols. I want to get into doing builds, but I'm not comfortable doing that without much help, so the Zion looks good to me so far.
@@MrBurdinekl honestly, the disparity between socom and government cuts on a 12.5 barrel are so negligible that it’s probably not worth noting and strictly preference. Barrel flex may play a part at 500 yards or more giving the government cut the advantage but a 12.5 isn’t a long range gun. Ultimately, it honestly boils down to aesthetic. What will make a difference is gas length.
I agree 100% 12.5 is the best barrel length on suppressed for a SBR. I have a 12.5 upper for mine and a 10.5 for my suppressed upper. I tried a suppressor on the 12.5 and it’s just not for me. That 2 inches less makes a pretty substantial weight savings. Plus with my home and property. The chances I’m shooting past 200 yards is almost 0 so a 10 five suppressed works perfectly for me. A lot of it just comes down to use case. That said, I’d say 10.3 is probably the shortest you should ever go in 5.56. I may make a 7.5” 300 blackout if I want to go shorter than 10.5”.
I can add some lesser known evidence to it, it's about the absolute longest barrel lengths that can shoot 55gn ammo effectively with 1:7 twist. People confuse that, it's not the twist rate alone, it's too long of a barrel AND too aggressive of a twist rate that's an issue. 12.5" 1:7 barrels get 55gn rounds right there up to 300k RPM, which is considered the maximum you should spin it up to. You figure out the RPM by (muzzle velocity in feet per second x 12 inches per foot) / (7 inches for one rotation) x (60 seconds per minute) = RPM. People think the 1:7 is the issue, but it's not, and the reason they see issues with accuracy is because they likely have a longer barrel and the bullets are pretty much on the cusp or actually disintegrating in flight. They basically melt and come apart in air from reaching such a high RPM in longer barrels.
The IWI Zion 12.5” pistol has a mid length gas system. It’s not as compact as some AR pistols out there, but as far as functionality I’d say it’s the ideal pistol variant. It’s also a quality firearm that runs under the $1000 mark. I picked one up today from Bud’s gun shop online with free shipping for $828.
I have a 13.5" mid length gas .308 and it's still a tack driver for under 300yd hunting hog and deer. Easier to maneuver in thick brush. Suppressed, it's nice and comfortable. Especially with subsonic rounds. Using Winchester Power-Point Hog Special .308 Winchester 150-Grain, had a great sub 1 moa at 100 yds.
Thank you for sharing your insights and thoughts. I'm still new to this stuff and appreciate your opinion. I carried an M16A-1 when I was in the Marines. I knew that rifle pretty well but the whole platform has grown since then. So much new stuff to learn. Thanks for posting.
We had M16A1s in my first unit, which I really liked. Multiple generations of AR-15s have emerged since then. I consider the M16A1 and Colt 653 carbine the capstones of the first Generation, which included the 1957 prototypes, 1959 Colt 601, 602, 603 (M16A1), USAF 604, 605 Carbine, 606 HBAR, 607 Commando, 608 USAF Survival Rifle, XM177, XM177E2, GAU-5A, GAU-5A/A, 656 Sniper, etc. M16A2 marked the entrance to the 2nd Generation which included the Colt 723, 727, and 733 carbines/commandos. M4 came from the 727, ushering in the 3rd Generation, which also included M16A4. Within M4/M4A1, you have SOPMOD Blocks. On the civilian side, it exploded with variations and trends, the biggest one being high performance intermediate cartridge and alternate chamberings, free-float as a dominant baseline, excellent triggers, billet receiver sets, endless furniture options, and all while a revolution in optics and electro-optical aiming devices has emerged. I think the quintessential example of all this is a 12" 6.5 Grendel AR-15, which can not only excel at HD, but hunting and long range shooting, all in the size of an MP5.
DITTO, USAF SP in the 1970's and 80's M16A1 was standard fare. Or A GUA5A/A. I also served as SP armorer, so intimate with cleaning and storage of same. S.E.A. to the Sandbox '73-'95
I think everything should be suppressed (suppressable), regardless of length. Guns shot a lot are seldom carried a lot (patrol, walknhunt, or in/out of vehicles). Guns carried a lot are seldom shot, so weight and length are more of a factor. The additional weight/length for a suppressed 12"+ is irrelevant for people that actual train and compete year round. The benefits of a suppressor far outweigh the costs. The problem lies with civilians who don't train or compete that have to justify their tacticool purchases by imaging what the weapon would theoretically be used for in a zombie apocalypse that they aren't prepared for.
All my ARs are suppressible and I have suppressors. They have their place, but they’re not magic. I think suppressors are somewhat overrated for most people. They’re heavy and make your rifle filthy. For a lot of situations, I don’t agree that the benefits of a suppressor outweigh the cost. Buy ammo and get training first.
SLR Rifleworks makes 11.5 and 11.7” handguards that fit the 12.5” barrel like a glove. Incredible quality and lock-up, top notch customer service. Good to go
@@adamg574 yep. General rule for 1/2-28 threading is you’ve got about a .7” delta between the threads on the end of the barrel and the chamber that sits in the receiver beyond where the handguard contacts the receiver. In short, with an 11.7” handguard on a 12.5” barrel the base of the muzzle device will sit perfectly flush with the end of the handguard. An 11.5” handguard on 12.5” barrel will give you an extra .2” or so of wiggle room. And that flush fit (11.7 on 12.5) will almost always work perfectly with suppressors since most of them are tapered toward the mounting end.
I favor 12.5's the most as well, although I prefer middy 12.5" builds. Aero's 10.2" handguards are just long enough to completely cover your gas block on a middy 12.5", protecting the block but giving you easy access if running adjustable blocks. I've put together a few 12.5" middy uppers so far with different barrels, and all have been solid. Very soft shooting and you only need H1 buffers with them.
Really 10.2 hand guard on an 12.5 love to see how that looks do you run into any issues with the h1 buffer with the ejection pattern? Or any sorts of malfunctions?
Just built a new Surpressor host upper with a 12.3 BA Hanson bbl and a 11.5 MI Combat Rail. Not a whole lot shorter than my pinned 14.5/16.1 OAL upper, but those 2" makes running a 6" Surpressor indoors completely doable. IMO, anything less than 12.5 should be chambered in 300BO, or x39. Sub'd!
For any aspiring owners, consider lightening the weapon as much as possible, without sacrificing barrel thickness or BCG quality. There are two good examples in this video, between the heavier quad-rail and lighter MLOK handguards. I would always prefer minimal weight for CQB and home/civil/urban use.
Yeah true and like you said midwest industries has some good ones too. I had one of their 12.5 uppers and it was damn good. I just bought a zion 12.5 pistol with a midlength gas system, I'm curious to see how the midlength system is in a 12.5. Plus the price was too nice to pass up with the labor day sale.
@@lifestyleniall Yup that was it to 208 gunshop. Oh hell yeah that deal was way too sweet to pass up. Same here I'm just waiting for it to ship and I'm waiting to get the YHM Turbo Kv2.
I've had a K on my 7.5" 300bo pistol and I now use it on my 20" 6.5 grendel build and I just got a 12.5" 5.56 barrel for my pistol I plan on running it on there too
This is the way. Not gonna be super quiet, but enough to take the edge off and not blow your ears out if you have to shoot it indoors. Super compact and great ballistics relative to 10.3 and 11.5.
Cool video on 12.5’s. I am running a Forward Controls RHF4 11.5” Quad Hand-guard with a Ballistic Advantage 12.3” Hanson barrel. Absolutely perfect set up. You should check that out.
I have two 12.5” uppers and they both have mid length gas systems. One is a Triarc Track 2.0 barrel in a billet Zev upper w/ Zev Wedgelock handguard and the other is an HM Defense Monobloc in a billet Mega Arms MML upper.The Triarc is easily the softest shooting upper receiver I own, and the Monobloc is the SHTF/WROL
10.5 has a huge port on it, 12.5 port size runs smoother as a mid length without beating the internals up......12.5 middy/quad rail, trijicon tri-power, YHM RES2 here 😀
@@treloughfarrer7604 I understand that you want a clone but imo just do it as an 11.5" or a 12.5", they're using slightly longer guns these days due to the unreliable fragmentation of 5.56 out of a 10.3" MK18 and due to the less reliable nature of barrels shorter than 11.5", really you won't regret that extra inch! Good luck with your gun dude. :-)
Just built a Rosco 12.5" with an 11" Strike Industries Gridloack handguard. Rosco Bloodline barrels with their patrol length gastube is a nice ft shooting 1/2 MOA gun.
Thanks for this one- yes, Great length/ for the 12.5 w/ 12” hand-guard, a carbon guard that can be trimmed to length, is great, or- running a blast can / which also moves some of the added percussive noise away from the shooter
@@4liter That upper with the SLR handguard has a Criterion hybrid in it with carbine gas. Shoots nice (haven't put a lot of rounds through it yet). I just recently built another 12.5" upper with the Triarc barrel with a MI 11.5" Combat handguard. Aside from the handguard, that's my "gucci" upper. Lol
I ran a 12.5 for a while and loved it. Still went back to 16 ultimately. I'm a long guy tho. So even tho 12.5 was a nice balance, the benefits didn't outweigh the cons. I can train past the issues 16 give me. I can't train to make 5.56 more effective out of 12.5.
They had a bunch of M4 bbls and whacked em down where the 203 cut is at, enlarged the gas port to get enough of a gulp of air to cycle properly and the 10.3 was born. The 11.5 was already once in service 66' - 68' but only had a small following so was back shelved. In my opinion 11.5 is the optimal bbl length for dwell time, proper gas port size, etc..
The 10.5 was created by Colt as a Submachinegun alternative Before the 11.5” and before the M203. Colt created the 11.5 because of reliability issues on the 10.5 due to lack of dwell time. It also helped to reduce the flash and blast of the 10.5”. The short length rifles were always a specialist weapon used primarily by MACV-SOG and some other Special Forces units, as they still are today. The Military continued on with the 20” M16 until the 80s when they wanted to replace their grease guns (yes ww2 era grease guns) for vehicle crewman etc. The 14.5 M4 was then born (that length was mainly to fit the M203) The M4 was then almost universally adopted inthe late 90s as the reduction in velocity/overall effective range was determined to not be a huge deal vs the benefit of shorter length for guys enterring and exiting vehicles and for logistics of everyone using the same gun
12.5 Inch seems like the greatest middle ground of Length, Weight and maneuverability. Just a shame it has to be classified as a Pistol. Sort of Curious if they make a Muzzle Break Long enough that can be tac welded on making it a Full 16 Inches. Remember, you have to TAC WELD the Muzzle Device to make it a 16 Inche Rifle.
I think Rosco’s 12.5 Sage barrel with the “patrol” length gas system and continuous taper profile is the way to go. I just don’t wish is was a CHF barrel. Or at least 4150 CMV rather than 416R. That’s type of setup would be the ideal do it all gun that could be ran suppressed or unsuppressed
I'm currently building a 12.5" upper using a Rosco K9 barrel with a Rosco Patrol length gas tube and gas block. The gas port set about halfway between carbine and mid-length should give me plenty of dwell time to run reliably. I plan to run suppressed and unsuppressed interchangeably.
Dude, thank you so much. I avoided putting a bcm foregrip because I wasn’t sure of the law Orin this case ATFs opinion that they think is law. Sure as shit, it does say 26” or greater is good to go. Also thank you for posting this. Currently have an 11.5, but was considering a 12.5.
So, just to be safe, you can put a foregrip on a 12.5, and have a pistol brace on it without having to register yes? This shts so confusing it makes me nauseous
A firearm don't have rifle or a smooth bore. You can buy all kinds of non rifle non shotgun in what would be illegal configurations. They make a barrels with straight grooves. Making them firearms and not nfa items. The nfa is for rifles and shot guns not straight grooved fire arms.
I know what you’re referring to, and yes, smooth bore rifles like the ones from Franklin armory do avoid the NFA, however, the lack of rifling is not the determining factor in classifying a rifle as a “firearm”. It’s a gray area that even the ATF has a hard time determining, but having smooth bore is not a requirement for that classification
Primary Weapons Systems makes a really nice 11.85" long stroke piston driven AR15 with 3 adjustable gas block. 2 positions on the gas block are for shooting suppressed, the piston makes shooting suppressed a lot cleaner in your upper. The 11.85" length is for exportation reasons but I find it's a really nice length for maneuvering and having decent ballistics. The downside is some unique parts in instances you may need to make repairs.
@alponching002 oh bro I'm a 2A loving and protecting mf but I ain't never confessing with my tongue that anyone or anything OTHER than JESUS CHRIST are my lord and savior. Stay solid brother
Funny you say that. That’s exactly what is now on the black one. Lol. Been a while since I made this video. I swapped the aero for the FCD rail with KAC panels
Well… not gonna lie. I actually did suppress this gun and went with an RC2. I may have a bit of egg on my face but this gun f#cks!!! Both of em. Not *quite as maneuverable in tight spaces but hardly a loss given ballistics over a 10.3.
Thanks for the informative video. I've got a 10.3", 11.5" and a 16". I've never really thought about a 12.5" but might just get a 12.5 upper too; wouldn't hurt right lol
Also, I have the midwest industries handguard you speak of, it's great and my rosco bloodline 12.5 goes right to the end. I do run a linear comp though to keep everything pushing forward for in the house.
12.5 for 300 blk, 16 for 556, and 20 for 308 imo. good performance out of each cartridge while not sacrificing too much of the performance that makes a rifle or mobility for its intended purpose. Not very many people go kicking in doors with a 308 when they have a 300blk or 556 available.
Definitely an interesting perspective. I’m still new the nfa and sbr realm. I’ve been considering a 12.5 for the reasons you have mentioned but I am curious as to why you’ve mentioned a 12.5 if you’re not going to suppress your rifle? Is there a reason for not suppressing the 12.5? I’d like to eventually go the sbr route with my rifle however I’d like to suppress it. Do you have any recommendations then?
Perhaps it came off wrong. Not saying you shouldn’t suppress a 12.5 but when you start getting beyond that length, it becomes a bit less manageable in tight spaces with the added can. It’s all subjective though I suppose. One thing is certain. 12.5 is superior to every barrel length that is shorter
In your particular situation, I’d go 11.5 if it was me and I planned to suppress and planned on doing close range and any mid range shooting out to 300 yards. If you are consistently shooting 400+ I’d try the 12.5 It’s pretty unmanageable after that. Certainly for cqbr. Most who suppress these days go with 10.5 or 10.3. It’s a popular length for that reason. I wanted to raise awareness in the video that an extra inch or two will have exponentially improved performance.
Thank you for the quick reply! I’ve been on the fence between 11.5 and 12.5 I still have a 16” that can reach farther if I want to use that. I may consider the 11.5 more then. Either way I appreciate your insight and clarification!
** minor side note… if you do decide to run a 11.5 or 12.5 rifle and you want to suppress it. Look at the Dead Air Sandman K. In my humble opinion it is the BEST option to suppress your gun and keep your overall package length short. I do agree with you that the 12.5 is the GOAT as far as “Sweet Spot” short boy. Build one each.
Gonna build a lefty 12.5 with a KAC lower ive been waiting for almost 2 years now. Would like a KAC upper but, ya know...$$$$$ and will have a dedicated can preferably inconel
If you're not going to suppress it, why not go with 14.5 and call it day? You get better ballistics and maybe less maneuverability. Either way great video.
12.5 is the sweet spot as far as velocity is concerned. With a 14.5 you gain a minimal amount of fps, like 10-30 with defensive loads. 14.5 to 16" is a much bigger difference than 12.5 - 14.5.
12.5 Car and 13.7 Mid are my favorite barrel lengths . My 12.5 has Fn Hybrid HF barrel with C4 10" Quad and YHM T2 Turbo K . My 13.7 is FN Midweight HF with Midwest 12.5" Two piece free FLOAT MLOK and YHM T2 Turbo K. YHM Turbo K only adds 4.9" when using Kurz Kit . So its practically the same size as 16" with A2 flash Hider. Using Turbo K doesnt slow me down at on 12.5 or 13.7 . I agree 100% quad rails will never go out of style and they are the surefire/ bomb proof rails period . BCM , and Centurion make quad rails that are only 3 to 4oz heavier than Mlok .
Hey brother, I'm looking at either 12.5 or 13.9 triarc system rifle...I hear what you're saying about the 12.5. If I do go 13.9 I'm most likely going to pin and weld it so legally it will be considered a rifle. Which I think is a win, still a good size. I want to know your opinion on this. Which route would you take?
Depends what the 12.5 is honestly. The triarch is a STRONG candidate to compete with. They have the rifle gas tuning down pat so you know it’s gonna be a soft shooter. The 12.5 definitely has an edge on maneuverability. I suppose I would need more information to give an accurate assessment
I ordered and just got done building a 12.5 kit from Delta Team Tactical. It came with 12.5 Ballistics Advantage barrel, 13in M lok rail, Recoil Technologies flash can, Aderson upper and lower, Davidson Defense slab side BCG, Kak industries mil spec complete lower kit, SB4 brace.
@@dstdrummer Nice...I was going to go with PSA . They have some nice deals and I like there kits they offer some quality lowers and upper kits. Good job brother
@@williamharris803 I couldn’t pass up the deal on the lower. Complete, assembled, with their, “EPT”….$159. I’m going to pair that with the DTT “Conqueror” 12.5” upper. Should make for a nice little project. 👍🏽
Civilians need to re-think the maneuverability argument and overall “cool” factor of shorty ARs. Nothing will get you killed faster than a false sense of your abilities that can come with buying into the shorty mindset. I’ll always say a 14.5 or 16 carbine is the best choice for a civilian.
@@Rob-qr2kn Most civilian and non-LEOs do not need to be concerned about maneuverability and close quarters combat because they have no training or experience. As a civilian, it’s easy to buy into the mindset that since you have a short barrel gun, now you can start clear rooms in your home and “operating” in and around vehicles. But that’s just a good way to get killed easier.
@@Rob-qr2kn Learning how and know when to use those skills are two totally different things. It’s more than just taking a couple training classes. Buy whatever makes you happy, but truly know your realistic limitations.
Well you might need the maneuverability regardless of whether or not your mil/LEO. I think your biggest gripe is a false confidence it _could_ bestow , but everyone's self defense situation may be different, it's easy to keep a 16" 556 pointed at your bedroom door you're holed up in, but what if you have children or a partner to get to?
Initially I said this because I didn’t plan on using it suppressed. I have apparently stuck my foot in my my mouth because I have since suppressed it and it runs beautifully. Not quite as maneuverable in tight areas like a car but definitely happy with it vs the 10.5
@@theuncouthtruth9551 I've finally ordered mine! A car may be too tight... But what are your thoughts on the 12.5" with a silencer on a home/building situation?
Home defense, 10.3. Strictly If it’s indoor and close range, you can still manage enough velocity with the right round for effectiveness. I’d recommend Speer gold dot or hornady tap
Spoiler alert: I did wind up suppressing it. RC2. And it’s awesome. I totally put my foot in my mouth since this video was made. Though I was correct in cqb maneuverability. It’s definitely more cumbersome around corners but not unmanageable. The trade off of having distance and velocity is totally worth it.
Just got a 12.5” complete upper in the mail. Trying to decide with a SF War Comp if it puts me at 16”!! I’m getting varying responses. I have an SBR’d lower I’m gonna use for now and call it good. Good Video!! Subbed!!
Was gonna say RIP your dog, but I'm glad you clarified. That being said, for anyone reading this comment, a warcomp WILL NOT get a 12.5" to 16" overall.
What would be your thoughts on running a 12.5 lwrc with adjustable gas block suppresses? Good or bad? I've really been thinking on this lately and have really been wanting one specifically to have it suppressed. Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated!
Screw ADJ gas block. Has your weapon correctly gassed and you’ll be fine. Use a VLTOR A5 Buffer. It’s the best thing in every situation. People argue this and they’re just wrong. Sorry. Give me the following and I’ll shoot at the same efficiency as a 20” m16 - 12.5 mid or carbine barrel (Centurion mk12) - custom gas tube tuned for my weapon specs ( it’s a real thing ). - Vltor A5 buffer w/ H2 (maybe H3) weight and Springco Green or orange. - LPVO - shoot fast eat ass sticker on all my mags
I’m just coming around to this. And was considering a 12.5” as I have a barrel kicking around but as I’m looking around, I can’t find a handguard I want to put with it. Lately been going back to picatinny handguards. And everything is either too short or too long. I have a 7.5” upper kicking around from before I knew better. It’s an Aero and strangely, it freakin runs.
@@theuncouthtruth9551 holy crap. I had no idea they started making rails. Awesome. I love the lightweight of the mLok stuff but concluded it isn’t as rigid as the quads are
My thoughts were initially due to added length. But I put my foot in my mouth because I actually did wind up suppressing with an RC2. Not quite as maneuverable on things like barricades and doorways but still an excellent barrel length due to the ballistics and though less manageable than the 10.5, still quite manageable indoors
No. I shoved my foot well into my mouth. The reason I say unsupressed is because it’s less manageable around corners and tight spaces. But I actually suppressed both and I absolutely love it. Where it really counts is around cars and on a Vtac barricade. There’s a difference but considering how much more velocity you get, the cost benefit supressed is negligible. I recommend the 12.5 either or. Because it’s a great length
Can you clarify tbh I get confused on these ar “pistol” laws. I have the Zion 15 pistol, can I put a vertical grip on? Did I hear that right or did I miss something
Yes. You heard that right. You can. Just no stock. Must be a brace. The OAL is greater than 26” so a VFG is allowed. But because the barrel is less than 16” it must have a brace. This is classified as “firearm”. Not a rifle. Not a pistol. And not an NFA item like an AOW or SBR.
I only have a suppressed 9in BCM in 300blk and have been debating on if I should get a 556 or not for months. The only reason I'm considering one is ammo compatibility with more people, but my closest friends already own 300blk guns anyway. 🤷♂️
Similar situation here. Not sure there’s a point to a SBR 5.56 when I have a 9” 300blk, so might just go 14.5, but the velocity differences between 12.5 and 14.5 aren’t too significant.
To caption the obvious, when I say “best” it is my subjective opinion. 😁
Edit: as it’s been almost 2 years since this video has been made, I seem to have stuck my foot in my mouth. As suppressing them is exactly what I did. Surefire RC2. And they are awesome. Though less manageable as you would expect when shooting from a barricade or the inside of a car etc. But everything is a trade off. That said, 12.5 is still the GOAT 🐐 🙌🏻 I double down on this
🤔
My research and combat training has led me to view the 12.5 as the best overall length as well... self defense, urban close quarters combat, moderate distance battle field combat, operation from a vehicle, effective power or velocity, reliability with a mid length gas tube and sufficient dwell time... the 12.5 may not be the best at any of those, but can do all of those pretty well. I am looking to buy probably a Zion15 12.5" in 5.56 this week. Is the Socom barrel better than the government profile... I don't know.
I don't know why 10.5" has become sort of the standard in ar pistols. I want to get into doing builds, but I'm not comfortable doing that without much help, so the Zion looks good to me so far.
@@MrBurdinekl honestly, the disparity between socom and government cuts on a 12.5 barrel are so negligible that it’s probably not worth noting and strictly preference. Barrel flex may play a part at 500 yards or more giving the government cut the advantage but a 12.5 isn’t a long range gun. Ultimately, it honestly boils down to aesthetic. What will make a difference is gas length.
I agree 100% 12.5 is the best barrel length on suppressed for a SBR. I have a 12.5 upper for mine and a 10.5 for my suppressed upper. I tried a suppressor on the 12.5 and it’s just not for me. That 2 inches less makes a pretty substantial weight savings. Plus with my home and property. The chances I’m shooting past 200 yards is almost 0 so a 10 five suppressed works perfectly for me. A lot of it just comes down to use case. That said, I’d say 10.3 is probably the shortest you should ever go in 5.56. I may make a 7.5” 300 blackout if I want to go shorter than 10.5”.
I can add some lesser known evidence to it, it's about the absolute longest barrel lengths that can shoot 55gn ammo effectively with 1:7 twist. People confuse that, it's not the twist rate alone, it's too long of a barrel AND too aggressive of a twist rate that's an issue. 12.5" 1:7 barrels get 55gn rounds right there up to 300k RPM, which is considered the maximum you should spin it up to. You figure out the RPM by (muzzle velocity in feet per second x 12 inches per foot) / (7 inches for one rotation) x (60 seconds per minute) = RPM. People think the 1:7 is the issue, but it's not, and the reason they see issues with accuracy is because they likely have a longer barrel and the bullets are pretty much on the cusp or actually disintegrating in flight. They basically melt and come apart in air from reaching such a high RPM in longer barrels.
The IWI Zion 12.5” pistol has a mid length gas system. It’s not as compact as some AR pistols out there, but as far as functionality I’d say it’s the ideal pistol variant. It’s also a quality firearm that runs under the $1000 mark. I picked one up today from Bud’s gun shop online with free shipping for $828.
you suppress it?
@@DTreatz If I had a suppressor I would.
@@josefabdon l0l
My next purchase!
Is it not good suppressed? Newbie here …
12.5 is the sweet spot in velocity and ballistics. I've had a couple in the past and I kept one out of the few that I built.
16 is the jack of all trades, and go 20 inches if you want something actually effective at a range.
I have a 13.5" mid length gas .308 and it's still a tack driver for under 300yd hunting hog and deer. Easier to maneuver in thick brush. Suppressed, it's nice and comfortable. Especially with subsonic rounds. Using Winchester Power-Point Hog Special .308 Winchester 150-Grain, had a great sub 1 moa at 100 yds.
A bit newer to guns, would a 14.5 barrel allow for under 600yrds hunting?
@@xekeysyes
Thank you for sharing your insights and thoughts. I'm still new to this stuff and appreciate your opinion. I carried an M16A-1 when I was in the Marines. I knew that rifle pretty well but the whole platform has grown since then. So much new stuff to learn. Thanks for posting.
We had M16A1s in my first unit, which I really liked. Multiple generations of AR-15s have emerged since then.
I consider the M16A1 and Colt 653 carbine the capstones of the first Generation, which included the 1957 prototypes, 1959 Colt 601, 602, 603 (M16A1), USAF 604, 605 Carbine, 606 HBAR, 607 Commando, 608 USAF Survival Rifle, XM177, XM177E2, GAU-5A, GAU-5A/A, 656 Sniper, etc.
M16A2 marked the entrance to the 2nd Generation which included the Colt 723, 727, and 733 carbines/commandos.
M4 came from the 727, ushering in the 3rd Generation, which also included M16A4.
Within M4/M4A1, you have SOPMOD Blocks.
On the civilian side, it exploded with variations and trends, the biggest one being high performance intermediate cartridge and alternate chamberings, free-float as a dominant baseline, excellent triggers, billet receiver sets, endless furniture options, and all while a revolution in optics and electro-optical aiming devices has emerged.
I think the quintessential example of all this is a 12" 6.5 Grendel AR-15, which can not only excel at HD, but hunting and long range shooting, all in the size of an MP5.
DITTO, USAF SP in the 1970's and 80's M16A1 was standard fare. Or A GUA5A/A. I also served as SP armorer, so intimate with cleaning and storage of same. S.E.A. to the Sandbox '73-'95
I think everything should be suppressed (suppressable), regardless of length.
Guns shot a lot are seldom carried a lot (patrol, walknhunt, or in/out of vehicles). Guns carried a lot are seldom shot, so weight and length are more of a factor. The additional weight/length for a suppressed 12"+ is irrelevant for people that actual train and compete year round.
The benefits of a suppressor far outweigh the costs.
The problem lies with civilians who don't train or compete that have to justify their tacticool purchases by imaging what the weapon would theoretically be used for in a zombie apocalypse that they aren't prepared for.
Hey man I'm trying to prepare
All my ARs are suppressible and I have suppressors. They have their place, but they’re not magic. I think suppressors are somewhat overrated for most people. They’re heavy and make your rifle filthy. For a lot of situations, I don’t agree that the benefits of a suppressor outweigh the cost. Buy ammo and get training first.
SLR Rifleworks makes 11.5 and 11.7” handguards that fit the 12.5” barrel like a glove. Incredible quality and lock-up, top notch customer service. Good to go
Threads on the barrel clear the 11.7 hand guard?
@@adamg574 yep. General rule for 1/2-28 threading is you’ve got about a .7” delta between the threads on the end of the barrel and the chamber that sits in the receiver beyond where the handguard contacts the receiver. In short, with an 11.7” handguard on a 12.5” barrel the base of the muzzle device will sit perfectly flush with the end of the handguard. An 11.5” handguard on 12.5” barrel will give you an extra .2” or so of wiggle room. And that flush fit (11.7 on 12.5) will almost always work perfectly with suppressors since most of them are tapered toward the mounting end.
Are there really people crazy enough to pay 300$ for a handguard out there?
12.5 is the shortest where it will still burn all the gunpowder. Anything lower will spit powder out the front can even burn your arms.
I favor 12.5's the most as well, although I prefer middy 12.5" builds. Aero's 10.2" handguards are just long enough to completely cover your gas block on a middy 12.5", protecting the block but giving you easy access if running adjustable blocks. I've put together a few 12.5" middy uppers so far with different barrels, and all have been solid. Very soft shooting and you only need H1 buffers with them.
Really 10.2 hand guard on an 12.5 love to see how that looks do you run into any issues with the h1 buffer with the ejection pattern? Or any sorts of malfunctions?
Just built a new Surpressor host upper with a 12.3 BA Hanson bbl and a 11.5 MI Combat Rail. Not a whole lot shorter than my pinned 14.5/16.1 OAL upper, but those 2" makes running a 6" Surpressor indoors completely doable. IMO, anything less than 12.5 should be chambered in 300BO, or x39. Sub'd!
Thinking of pin/weld my can to my 12.3” BA Hanson.... legal upper length then , I’m 5’4 so it’s perfect size 😅
I fail to see how 11.5 isn't better, the whole point of a SBR or pistol build its to accentuate its short length.
Forward Controls Design makes some good 11.5 hand guards that'll fit the 12.5 barrel
For any aspiring owners, consider lightening the weapon as much as possible, without sacrificing barrel thickness or BCG quality. There are two good examples in this video, between the heavier quad-rail and lighter MLOK handguards. I would always prefer minimal weight for CQB and home/civil/urban use.
You nailed all the same reasonings that I had for the 12.5.
What you got there is only 2 inches shorter than a pinned and welded 13.7-14.5. An 11.5" with a A2 birdcage length muzzle device is the way to go.
I’m currently running 12.5 Zion-15 with suppression. It’s beautiful.
When doing a 12.5 barrel I just stick with 11.5 handguards. It just helps avoid any issues especially If you want to add a suppressor later.
Agreed. The problem I ran into was that it’s not a common length. It should be. Especially if Geissele made that length for the MK13
Yeah true and like you said midwest industries has some good ones too. I had one of their 12.5 uppers and it was damn good. I just bought a zion 12.5 pistol with a midlength gas system, I'm curious to see how the midlength system is in a 12.5. Plus the price was too nice to pass up with the labor day sale.
@@madeintexas1213 I got the same deal! 208gunshop right? I’m waiting eagerly for the “shipped” status… 😬 Such a killer deal
@@lifestyleniall Yup that was it to 208 gunshop. Oh hell yeah that deal was way too sweet to pass up. Same here I'm just waiting for it to ship and I'm waiting to get the YHM Turbo Kv2.
What issues does that help avoid?
Thanks for this video that ending part about Midwest was very helpful for my 12.5 piston build
I run a 12.5 w a Surefire RC2 which puts it right around the length of a 16 inch gun and it runs great
I prefer 12.5" with a "K" suppressor
I've had a K on my 7.5" 300bo pistol and I now use it on my 20" 6.5 grendel build and I just got a 12.5" 5.56 barrel for my pistol I plan on running it on there too
This is the way. Not gonna be super quiet, but enough to take the edge off and not blow your ears out if you have to shoot it indoors. Super compact and great ballistics relative to 10.3 and 11.5.
Cool video on 12.5’s. I am running a Forward Controls RHF4 11.5” Quad Hand-guard with a Ballistic Advantage 12.3” Hanson barrel. Absolutely perfect set up. You should check that out.
Anyone care to expand in more detail the Foregrip topic on a 12.5 vs smaller? I wasn't too clear about the legality of it?
Thank you for this video. Just the info iv been looking for on my new build.
I have two 12.5” uppers and they both have mid length gas systems. One is a Triarc Track 2.0 barrel in a billet Zev upper w/ Zev Wedgelock handguard and the other is an HM Defense Monobloc in a billet Mega Arms MML upper.The Triarc is easily the softest shooting upper receiver I own, and the Monobloc is the SHTF/WROL
You don't care about dwell time? That's like having length gas on a 16 or 14.5
10.5 has a huge port on it, 12.5 port size runs smoother as a mid length without beating the internals up......12.5 middy/quad rail, trijicon tri-power, YHM RES2 here 😀
How reliable and ammo picky is a 12.5 running mid length gas unsuppressed though? I’ve read carbine gas is better for an unsuppressed 12.5.
@@adamg574 I don't have any issues with or without a can. I run the cheapest steel cased all the way through high dollar ammo no issues.
I'm finishing my 1st build with a 16" barrel. You've convinced me that my 2nd will be 12.5!
You won’t be disappointed 👌🏻
I just finished my 7.5 and 16 as well. My next is a 10.5 mk18 clone
@@treloughfarrer7604 I understand that you want a clone but imo just do it as an 11.5" or a 12.5", they're using slightly longer guns these days due to the unreliable fragmentation of 5.56 out of a 10.3" MK18 and due to the less reliable nature of barrels shorter than 11.5", really you won't regret that extra inch! Good luck with your gun dude. :-)
I like 12.5 but I can’t carry my 11.3 as if it was a handgun. Like state parks were only handguns are allowed.
Just built a Rosco 12.5" with an 11" Strike Industries Gridloack handguard. Rosco Bloodline barrels with their patrol length gastube is a nice ft shooting 1/2 MOA gun.
Thanks for this one- yes, Great length/ for the 12.5 w/ 12” hand-guard, a carbon guard that can be trimmed to length, is great, or- running a blast can / which also moves some of the added percussive noise away from the shooter
I have an SLR Rifleworks handguard on my 12.5" SBR. It's 11.7" so runs right up to the muzzle threads.
I’ve got the same setup with a 12.5 ballistic advantage Hanson barrel. Love it.
@@4liter That upper with the SLR handguard has a Criterion hybrid in it with carbine gas. Shoots nice (haven't put a lot of rounds through it yet). I just recently built another 12.5" upper with the Triarc barrel with a MI 11.5" Combat handguard. Aside from the handguard, that's my "gucci" upper. Lol
I went with a 12 inch handguard on a 12.5 and the diameter is large enough for a suppressor.
I ran a 12.5 for a while and loved it. Still went back to 16 ultimately. I'm a long guy tho. So even tho 12.5 was a nice balance, the benefits didn't outweigh the cons. I can train past the issues 16 give me. I can't train to make 5.56 more effective out of 12.5.
Thats a great way of putting it. Hadn't thought of it like that.
12.5 inch cmmg 300 black out sbr is what I went with for unsuppressed supersonic loads
They had a bunch of M4 bbls and whacked em down where the 203 cut is at, enlarged the gas port to get enough of a gulp of air to cycle properly and the 10.3 was born.
The 11.5 was already once in service 66' - 68' but only had a small following so was back shelved. In my opinion 11.5 is the optimal bbl length for dwell time, proper gas port size, etc..
Damn. I did not know that. Thanks for the history lesson👍🏽🍻
The 10.5 was created by Colt as a Submachinegun alternative Before the 11.5” and before the M203. Colt created the 11.5 because of reliability issues on the 10.5 due to lack of dwell time. It also helped to reduce the flash and blast of the 10.5”. The short length rifles were always a specialist weapon used primarily by MACV-SOG and some other Special Forces units, as they still are today. The Military continued on with the 20” M16 until the 80s when they wanted to replace their grease guns (yes ww2 era grease guns) for vehicle crewman etc. The 14.5 M4 was then born (that length was mainly to fit the M203) The M4 was then almost universally adopted inthe late 90s as the reduction in velocity/overall effective range was determined to not be a huge deal vs the benefit of shorter length for guys enterring and exiting vehicles and for logistics of everyone using the same gun
An adjustable gas block solves the 12.5 gas issues.
12.5 Inch seems like the greatest middle ground of Length, Weight and maneuverability.
Just a shame it has to be classified as a Pistol. Sort of Curious if they make a Muzzle Break Long enough that can be tac welded on making it a Full 16 Inches.
Remember, you have to TAC WELD the Muzzle Device to make it a 16 Inche Rifle.
I think this dude meant to make a video about what Bicep length is the best
I think Rosco’s 12.5 Sage barrel with the “patrol” length gas system and continuous taper profile is the way to go. I just don’t wish is was a CHF barrel. Or at least 4150 CMV rather than 416R. That’s type of setup would be the ideal do it all gun that could be ran suppressed or unsuppressed
12.5" 300BO barrel was a great choice i made
It's called an SBR if it has a stock on it and that requires a tax stamp if under 16" it need a minimum length of 26"
It is not called a SBR but aow
I'm currently building a 12.5" upper using a Rosco K9 barrel with a Rosco Patrol length gas tube and gas block. The gas port set about halfway between carbine and mid-length should give me plenty of dwell time to run reliably. I plan to run suppressed and unsuppressed interchangeably.
How's that going for you. I have the same set up and it runs like a top
Dude, thank you so much. I avoided putting a bcm foregrip because I wasn’t sure of the law Orin this case ATFs opinion that they think is law. Sure as shit, it does say 26” or greater is good to go.
Also thank you for posting this. Currently have an 11.5, but was considering a 12.5.
So, just to be safe, you can put a foregrip on a 12.5, and have a pistol brace on it without having to register yes?
This shts so confusing it makes me nauseous
A firearm don't have rifle or a smooth bore. You can buy all kinds of non rifle non shotgun in what would be illegal configurations. They make a barrels with straight grooves. Making them firearms and not nfa items. The nfa is for rifles and shot guns not straight grooved fire arms.
I know what you’re referring to, and yes, smooth bore rifles like the ones from Franklin armory do avoid the NFA, however, the lack of rifling is not the determining factor in classifying a rifle as a “firearm”. It’s a gray area that even the ATF has a hard time determining, but having smooth bore is not a requirement for that classification
The midwest industries 11.5" rails fit perfectly with a 12.5" barrel. The threads on a ballistic advantage barrel are 0.61" long.
Primary Weapons Systems makes a really nice 11.85" long stroke piston driven AR15 with 3 adjustable gas block. 2 positions on the gas block are for shooting suppressed, the piston makes shooting suppressed a lot cleaner in your upper. The 11.85" length is for exportation reasons but I find it's a really nice length for maneuvering and having decent ballistics. The downside is some unique parts in instances you may need to make repairs.
Idk about you but MY Lord AND Savior is Jesus Christ
Amen
I'm also a gun guy but c'mon.. I cringed when he said that. Let's just pray they find the real Lord and Savior.
@alponching002 oh bro I'm a 2A loving and protecting mf but I ain't never confessing with my tongue that anyone or anything OTHER than JESUS CHRIST are my lord and savior. Stay solid brother
Praise God and pass the ammunition so you don’t get nailed to a cross like Christ.
@@Ruby_Sterling oh I'm all over my 2A rights. I'm well taken care of on both ends lol
Damn. I bought the 11.5”😂😂. We can chrono them both one of these days at the 50
I love the 12.5 even with a can it’s my favorite length
Forward controls sells a 11.5 quad rail made for them by centurion. I have it on my 12.5 and it absolutely fucks. Check it out
Funny you say that. That’s exactly what is now on the black one. Lol. Been a while since I made this video. I swapped the aero for the FCD rail with KAC panels
@Florida Man HVACRyeah but centurion makes their RHF4 quad rail
What are your thoughts: a 11.5 larger can or 12.5” short (k) can suppressing it? Building a do all but serve as Home defense rifle.
Well… not gonna lie. I actually did suppress this gun and went with an RC2. I may have a bit of egg on my face but this gun f#cks!!! Both of em. Not *quite as maneuverable in tight spaces but hardly a loss given ballistics over a 10.3.
13.7 is King for me right now
Just got myself a 12.5 carbine from aero. Still gotta hit the range and break her in but damn aint she a beaut 😄🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷
Thanks for the informative video. I've got a 10.3", 11.5" and a 16". I've never really thought about a 12.5" but might just get a 12.5 upper too; wouldn't hurt right lol
ION 11.7" Lite MLOK Handguard seems like another option
BCM makes some hand guards for the 12.5. However the Daniel defense rails are amazingly lightweight and durable!
Love my MK18...yes it needs a can especially for 5.56.... good thing I just picked up a killer AK from Zastava
Great vid thanks. That set up is the only way we can have an AR in CT. That and a pre ban.
Yeah, not interested in getting politics from gun experts. I can think for myself, so thanks for not going further into that than you did.
K. Duly noted 👍🏻
Been using a 12.5" mid gas ARP since 2010, perfect with a can.
Why is 12.5 the best barrel length? It’s not. It’s a compromise, just like everything else.
Welp. You’re not wrong 🤷🏼♂️
Also, I have the midwest industries handguard you speak of, it's great and my rosco bloodline 12.5 goes right to the end. I do run a linear comp though to keep everything pushing forward for in the house.
I just built a 12.5 Rosco with 11.5 Midwest hand guard
I'm building a 13.7 pinned and weld AR chambered in 556,And a 13.5 300 blackout
Where are you getting the 13.5 BO barrel from?
I wouldn't go shorter than 12.5 for clearing rooms . I feel like 14.5 is my favorite
Glad I found this the 12.5 is my next build as well
I think a flash can like a Noveske should tuck under even a slim handguard.
It should
Nice info my man! I just ordered a bcm 12.5 earlier today.
12.5 for 300 blk, 16 for 556, and 20 for 308 imo. good performance out of each cartridge while not sacrificing too much of the performance that makes a rifle or mobility for its intended purpose. Not very many people go kicking in doors with a 308 when they have a 300blk or 556 available.
A few more companies make handguards now, ripcord industries ldr1, Slr rifle works has 11.7 inch rails, there are others but I forgot
Do you think the DD M4A1 RIS ii would fit with a 12.5in barrel and be suppressed too??
No. It won’t. Actual length on those are 12.25. You need at least .75” of more barrel length vs actual rail length to fit
@@theuncouthtruth9551 Bummer!! Thanks for the heads up!!
Definitely an interesting perspective. I’m still new the nfa and sbr realm. I’ve been considering a 12.5 for the reasons you have mentioned but I am curious as to why you’ve mentioned a 12.5 if you’re not going to suppress your rifle? Is there a reason for not suppressing the 12.5? I’d like to eventually go the sbr route with my rifle however I’d like to suppress it. Do you have any recommendations then?
Perhaps it came off wrong. Not saying you shouldn’t suppress a 12.5 but when you start getting beyond that length, it becomes a bit less manageable in tight spaces with the added can. It’s all subjective though I suppose. One thing is certain. 12.5 is superior to every barrel length that is shorter
In your particular situation, I’d go 11.5 if it was me and I planned to suppress and planned on doing close range and any mid range shooting out to 300 yards. If you are consistently shooting 400+ I’d try the 12.5 It’s pretty unmanageable after that. Certainly for cqbr. Most who suppress these days go with 10.5 or 10.3. It’s a popular length for that reason. I wanted to raise awareness in the video that an extra inch or two will have exponentially improved performance.
Thank you for the quick reply! I’ve been on the fence between 11.5 and 12.5 I still have a 16” that can reach farther if I want to use that. I may consider the 11.5 more then. Either way I appreciate your insight and clarification!
** minor side note… if you do decide to run a 11.5 or 12.5 rifle and you want to suppress it. Look at the Dead Air Sandman K. In my humble opinion it is the BEST option to suppress your gun and keep your overall package length short. I do agree with you that the 12.5 is the GOAT as far as “Sweet Spot” short boy. Build one each.
@@kryptonite77f6 sandman S for the 11.5 and 12.5 or even better yet Sierra 5 dedicated 5.56 can if you’re sticking to deadair. Sandman k for a 13.7
Gonna build a lefty 12.5 with a KAC lower ive been waiting for almost 2 years now. Would like a KAC upper but, ya know...$$$$$ and will have a dedicated can preferably inconel
Valid points. Good post
Good video and great synopsis!
If you're not going to suppress it, why not go with 14.5 and call it day? You get better ballistics and maybe less maneuverability. Either way great video.
You answered your own question. Maneuverability.
12.5 is the sweet spot as far as velocity is concerned. With a 14.5 you gain a minimal amount of fps, like 10-30 with defensive loads. 14.5 to 16" is a much bigger difference than 12.5 - 14.5.
Also you get same or little lass velocity and ballistics
12.5 Car and 13.7 Mid are my favorite barrel lengths . My 12.5 has Fn Hybrid HF barrel with C4 10" Quad and YHM T2 Turbo K . My 13.7 is FN Midweight HF with Midwest 12.5" Two piece free FLOAT MLOK and YHM T2 Turbo K.
YHM Turbo K only adds 4.9" when using Kurz Kit . So its practically the same size as 16" with A2 flash Hider. Using Turbo K doesnt slow me down at on 12.5 or 13.7 .
I agree 100% quad rails will never go out of style and they are the surefire/ bomb proof rails period . BCM , and Centurion make quad rails that are only 3 to 4oz heavier than Mlok .
Try ripcord industries they have a 12" rail 13.75 and they'll make it the way you want it.
Definitely a solid option. I went with FCD (centurion). Pretty happy with it too. But I hear great things about ripcord
What would be a good barrel length for suppressor ?
Hey brother, I'm looking at either 12.5 or 13.9 triarc system rifle...I hear what you're saying about the 12.5. If I do go 13.9 I'm most likely going to pin and weld it so legally it will be considered a rifle. Which I think is a win, still a good size. I want to know your opinion on this. Which route would you take?
Depends what the 12.5 is honestly. The triarch is a STRONG candidate to compete with. They have the rifle gas tuning down pat so you know it’s gonna be a soft shooter. The 12.5 definitely has an edge on maneuverability. I suppose I would need more information to give an accurate assessment
I’m very interested in the tan rifle. anyway to get another video on that build. Or at least a reply on components used?
great info thank you
Good video as always brother stay safe out there
Type A’s 12.5 hand guard is pretty awesome. Can’t wait to get mine lol
I ordered and just got done building a 12.5 kit from Delta Team Tactical. It came with 12.5 Ballistics Advantage barrel, 13in M lok rail, Recoil Technologies flash can, Aderson upper and lower, Davidson Defense slab side BCG, Kak industries mil spec complete lower kit, SB4 brace.
I am planning on ordering the same kit, (complete upper only, no lower parts kit).
How do you like it?
@@dstdrummer I'm very happy with everything. Go to Deltateam Tactical. They did a good job getting my kit to me.
@@williamharris803
Killer!
That eases my mind.
I got a good deal on a PSA complete assembled lower too.
Thanks!!
@@dstdrummer Nice...I was going to go with PSA . They have some nice deals and I like there kits they offer some quality lowers and upper kits. Good job brother
@@williamharris803
I couldn’t pass up the deal on the lower.
Complete, assembled, with their, “EPT”….$159.
I’m going to pair that with the DTT “Conqueror” 12.5” upper.
Should make for a nice little project.
👍🏽
Thanks for the video! Say, at 12.5” with a 1:8 twist what do you think is a good ammo grain? Would 55gr be sufficient? Thanks again!
1:8 would go best with 62g but it will definitely go well with 55. 1:8 is a “happy medium” twist. Works well with everything except 77g match king
@@theuncouthtruth9551 thank you sir!
Good. Video I'll go with 12.5 how about mid length iwi or hm defense
Civilians need to re-think the maneuverability argument and overall “cool” factor of shorty ARs. Nothing will get you killed faster than a false sense of your abilities that can come with buying into the shorty mindset. I’ll always say a 14.5 or 16 carbine is the best choice for a civilian.
@Adam Brown, elaborate please.
@@Rob-qr2kn Most civilian and non-LEOs do not need to be concerned about maneuverability and close quarters combat because they have no training or experience. As a civilian, it’s easy to buy into the mindset that since you have a short barrel gun, now you can start clear rooms in your home and “operating” in and around vehicles. But that’s just a good way to get killed easier.
@@adambrown6930 Gotcha, I want to learn to do that stuff though. End of the day, I'll get what I want but your explanation is valid.
@@Rob-qr2kn Learning how and know when to use those skills are two totally different things. It’s more than just taking a couple training classes. Buy whatever makes you happy, but truly know your realistic limitations.
Well you might need the maneuverability regardless of whether or not your mil/LEO.
I think your biggest gripe is a false confidence it _could_ bestow , but everyone's self defense situation may be different, it's easy to keep a 16" 556 pointed at your bedroom door you're holed up in, but what if you have children or a partner to get to?
Great video.
You said you'd choose the 12.5" over the others " unless I had plans to suppress it."
Can you elaborate on this?
Initially I said this because I didn’t plan on using it suppressed. I have apparently stuck my foot in my my mouth because I have since suppressed it and it runs beautifully. Not quite as maneuverable in tight areas like a car but definitely happy with it vs the 10.5
@@theuncouthtruth9551 I've finally ordered mine!
A car may be too tight... But what are your thoughts on the 12.5" with a silencer on a home/building situation?
@@theuncouthtruth9551 What suppressors have you used for it? K cans?
Late night UA-cam creeping but anyways I subbed. I honestly like to hear reviews and from regular gun guys.
What’s the shortest barrel length you recommend for being suppressed. I want to build something short for home defense/clearing rooms/cqb.
Home defense, 10.3. Strictly If it’s indoor and close range, you can still manage enough velocity with the right round for effectiveness. I’d recommend Speer gold dot or hornady tap
I did a video explaining why
ua-cam.com/video/bx3nqL3V2RE/v-deo.htmlsi=8-Ax67kRgywjAZHl
12.5” or 13.7” w/ DA Sandman K w/5.56 FH End Cap is a great Combo.
Ghost firearms has a 12in handguard that will fix perfect also
you and everyone else can rag on the NFA. Thanks for not lingering on the topic, it gets boring.
why not suppress it with a HuxWrx 7.62 QD???? thats the perfect rifle for that suppressor.
Spoiler alert: I did wind up suppressing it. RC2. And it’s awesome. I totally put my foot in my mouth since this video was made. Though I was correct in cqb maneuverability. It’s definitely more cumbersome around corners but not unmanageable. The trade off of having distance and velocity is totally worth it.
Mine is 12.7 i think it's perfect.
What speed difference does one of 12.5 "vs 11.5" have?
12.5 was better Velocity if we talking about.223/ 5.56 with depends on velocity
Just got a 12.5” complete upper in the mail. Trying to decide with a SF War Comp if it puts me at 16”!! I’m getting varying responses. I have an SBR’d lower I’m gonna use for now and call it good. Good Video!! Subbed!!
Duh…I’m thinking of my 14.5” lol!! Still good video!!
Was gonna say RIP your dog, but I'm glad you clarified. That being said, for anyone reading this comment, a warcomp WILL NOT get a 12.5" to 16" overall.
@@asdfghjk2933 lol 😂 simple math huh??
What would be your thoughts on running a 12.5 lwrc with adjustable gas block suppresses? Good or bad? I've really been thinking on this lately and have really been wanting one specifically to have it suppressed. Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated!
Screw ADJ gas block. Has your weapon correctly gassed and you’ll be fine. Use a VLTOR A5 Buffer. It’s the best thing in every situation. People argue this and they’re just wrong. Sorry.
Give me the following and I’ll shoot at the same efficiency as a 20” m16
- 12.5 mid or carbine barrel (Centurion mk12)
- custom gas tube tuned for my weapon specs ( it’s a real thing ).
- Vltor A5 buffer w/ H2 (maybe H3) weight and
Springco Green or orange.
- LPVO
- shoot fast eat ass sticker on all my mags
I’m just coming around to this. And was considering a 12.5” as I have a barrel kicking around but as I’m looking around, I can’t find a handguard I want to put with it. Lately been going back to picatinny handguards. And everything is either too short or too long.
I have a 7.5” upper kicking around from before I knew better. It’s an Aero and strangely, it freakin runs.
I actually just swapped the aero handguard for the forward controls design RHF11.5” quad. Fits like a glove 👌🏻
www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/RHF4_p_217.html
@@theuncouthtruth9551 holy crap. I had no idea they started making rails. Awesome. I love the lightweight of the mLok stuff but concluded it isn’t as rigid as the quads are
Why wouldn’t you suppress a 12.5 inch ? I have 10.5 and 12.5 and YHM T2 on the way. Just curious your thinking behind that ?
My thoughts were initially due to added length. But I put my foot in my mouth because I actually did wind up suppressing with an RC2. Not quite as maneuverable on things like barricades and doorways but still an excellent barrel length due to the ballistics and though less manageable than the 10.5, still quite manageable indoors
why is a POLICE DEPARTMENT allowed to make laws for a whole country , it’s like my local pd making laws for my district
Newbie here - why not suppressed is it not good suppressed or do you mean there are better lengths for suppressed?
No. I shoved my foot well into my mouth. The reason I say unsupressed is because it’s less manageable around corners and tight spaces. But I actually suppressed both and I absolutely love it. Where it really counts is around cars and on a Vtac barricade. There’s a difference but considering how much more velocity you get, the cost benefit supressed is negligible. I recommend the 12.5 either or. Because it’s a great length
@@theuncouthtruth9551 oh I see thanks!
Can you clarify tbh I get confused on these ar “pistol” laws. I have the Zion 15 pistol, can I put a vertical grip on? Did I hear that right or did I miss something
Yes. You heard that right. You can. Just no stock. Must be a brace. The OAL is greater than 26” so a VFG is allowed. But because the barrel is less than 16” it must have a brace. This is classified as “firearm”. Not a rifle. Not a pistol. And not an NFA item like an AOW or SBR.
@@theuncouthtruth9551 okay thank you very much
I only have a suppressed 9in BCM in 300blk and have been debating on if I should get a 556 or not for months. The only reason I'm considering one is ammo compatibility with more people, but my closest friends already own 300blk guns anyway. 🤷♂️
No one cares
Similar situation here. Not sure there’s a point to a SBR 5.56 when I have a 9” 300blk, so might just go 14.5, but the velocity differences between 12.5 and 14.5 aren’t too significant.
@Adam G I actually ended up going 556 now haha. It is so nice being able to just buy ammo cheaper than even reloading 300blk.
@@musicman1eanda definitely understandable!