Pray for me, a sinner, i say that because theres something about her that puts me off. Idk, its super werid. Theres no reason why i should be suspect of her. I just cant bring myself to listen to her fully, as if somethings hidden :(
Me too, I think. I've been listening to (and praying with) Orthodox music for years now (especially Valaam monks and Cappella Romana) and have now been listening to lots of talks on Orthodoxy, and it's drawing me in... UA-cam is Orthodoxy's secret weapon.
And that is no more obvious than your own name. You never gave yourself your own name, language, beliefs etc. All you can do is choose what you do later after your identity has been created from the community/God
@@deanmccrorie3461 I think this is a little more deterministic than reality. We do choose our beliefs and many other things related to ourselves. But we aren't doing so in a vacuum, away from the experience and approval - dissaproval of others.
@@strugglingathome Thats what i said. You choose your beliefs. But only retroactively. Meaning as you age Simply because you dont have access to other beliefs until others or god give them to you. Otherwise your getting your name, beliefs etc out of nothing like a magician from birth
The lack of enchantment in modernity is very much why I wandered down the Neo-pagan path for over a decade in my early life... before I was shown TRUE enchantment of the Eucharist. I NEED these type of conversations, so thank you so very much!
38:30 - The "formality and informality," the organization yet sometimes the confusion that seems to be present. -- I feel so blessed to have been able to live close to a small skete for a little over a year, and the Hieromonk asked me to assist in the altar (I was a 53 year old altar boy!). At one of the first liturgies I assisted in, he told me what his spiritual father had told him: "If you see me make a mistake, if you notice that I forgot a prayer or accidentally omitted something - don't interrupt me in the moment, but bring it to my attention after the conclusion of the service." And then he told me that his spiritual father had told him that "the angels are present with us when we are serving in the altar, and they make up for whatever mistakes we make." This sums up that "organic" nature of Orthodoxy you spoke about and the organized yet sometimes chaotic nature of the services.
I could have listened to that for hours. Frederica is truly amazing. Her books on the Jesus prayer and Mary are fantastic reads in their simplicity and honesty. A shining example of the power of the feminine...
What a lovely woman. Jonathan, that's what we need. A soothing and grounding mother's touch after engaging with some highly intellectual and somewhat abstract stuff.
Your discussion of the wooden noisemakers being used on Great and Holy Friday (at about the 14 min. mark) made me think of our parish practice during Matins of Holy Friday. Someone in the altar makes a slow hammer sound (striking together two wooden hammer handles) after each of there 12 Passion Gospel readings. So by the midpoint of the service it really drives home the sense of the nails being driven into Christ's hands and feet. This coupled with the extinguishing one by one of the 12 candles on the liturgical table creates a steadily more powerful crescendo of hammering and growing darkness, so that by the time the last candle is extinguished after the last Gospel reading, and the last 12 hammerings are heard, the church seems literally filled with the stillness of death. Immensely powerful!
I love her. When I first started watching Jonathan's videos I bought her audiobook about what it's like to be a part of the orthodox church. It's so good to see her here now
I am a Roman Catholic and experienced this orthodox tradition through the Catholic Lay apostolate of Madonna House in Combermere, Ontario (Russian foundress, Servant of God Catherine Doherty), and at St. Elias Ukrainian Catholic Byzantine Church in Brampton, Ontario. The Roman Rite is re-discovering herself and my prayer is that she learns to breathe with her 2 lungs again, east and west. Glory to God!
Oh my yes. In just the first few minutes of this talk, my soul is lifted. As I am mostly a worship musician, the idea that this entire existence is a song, begun in the breath of the Creator, then carried on by all He has and is creating. Thus, “en-chant-ment” is truly bringing the song into the world…even though the song has always been here, many have not had the ears to hear it. I could go on and on…I am hearing these talks at least a year after they’re posted, and sometimes years later, but they are still sounding out in truth…and I am still singing.
In the Byzantine Church (from Romania) they make noise and rumble during the Holy Saturday Liturgy, representing the souls brought out from Hades when Jesus descended there to bring them up. They also dispersed bay (laurel) leaves representing said souls.
Thank you for your videos! May all of our stories unite into the one True story of Christ and His Church. What a treasure of literature and spiritual healing Orthodoxy provides during these troubling times. Glory to God!
*thank you* for encouraging me in the whole 'settle young, get married young, have kids'. i am in the throes of that right now, so i shall be clinging to your advice!
Great anecdote about Fr Roman Braga of blessed memory answering the question about how many times must I say the Jesus Prayer before I see the uncreated light! Reminds me of a comment by St Paisios of Mt Athos, who warned against introducing technology or modern conveniences into our worship and the praxis of the Faith, and I paraphrase, "before you know it, you'll be able to use a mannequin on a rope and pulley to raise and lower to do your prostrations for you while you sit in your prayer corner and read comfortably."
We have the "clackers" at our Good Friday Catholic Mass. The knocking or "clacking" sound it makes represents the hammering of the nails into the hands and feet of Christ to the cross.
in 47:16 I felt that... I constantly feel like Im being called by God. Little signs here and there. But, at the same time I feel joy, light and revelation in this signs, I also fear to accept the idea entirely, because my life would completely change. Thats frightening. Im becoming a really paradoxal thinker and my life feels like a rollercoaster. Dont really know how to accept God and pathing towards Him. Your videos have helped me to understand a lot doe and for that Im really thankful, Jonathan!
I felt the same way! After becoming Orthodox at age 56 God clearly led me through all kinds of signs and occurrences to marry a deacon whose wife had died. I had wanted to become a nun! It was a huge struggle but I finally cried out to God that I would sacrifice my will to be a servant and wife to this man who makes beeswax candles for the church. Now we are on a huge adventure building an Orthodox Christian Healing Arts Center in our 8000 square foot candle factory. Keep trusting God and let Him change your life completely. Be willing to give up everything to follow Him! 🙏🏻☦️🙏🏻
Our center is called the Union of All Orthodox Christian Healing Arts Center, being built near St Silouan ROCOR monastery in central California. We will have a big conference retreat room, small group prayer Bible study counseling room, infrared saunas and an encaustic art studio for people to make their own art.
@@orthodoxboomergrandma3561 God bless you and may he prosper your ministry! You will look back one day and laugh and say "To think I wanted to be a nun."
24:47 so identity is a social construct, but not arbitrary. Being human is rooted in biology, but Personhood emerges within a network of familial and communal relations oriented towards trust, care and love of God and Neighbor.
Personhood exists in animals too. We recognize this especially, I think, in animals who live with humans, yet also in elephants, gorillas, dolphins. I believe it is an aspect of God that is emergent in consciousness. Animals with great personhood often are given full military and police funerals by the humans who knew them,
The 7 firs Council's and the East in general use "hypostasis" rather than prosopon, the Greek equivalent of the Latin "persona." Hypostasis, meaning "individual substance" emphasizes the more objective side of personhood, whearas person/prosopon the more subjective side. We need I think to emphasize that the person is a substantial reality (body, soul and spirit, not just the lower aspects but the higher as well). Of course in the end objective and subjective are perspectival terms that look at reality from different angels. We must certainly acknowledge that our subjectivity is part of reality, it is that which knows or is otherwise affected by the object, some of those objects are other subjects which ought to be experienced and related to as such. We can even apply objective in a positive sense in their regard, we must not treat persons as mere objects, on the other hand we must not relate to them merely in relation to our subjectivity (which is actually what objectify means in the negative sense) but at least in part in their alterity/ objectify. Its complicated, but simple if we aren't too inflexible about words.
@@greenchristendom4116 I regard "objective" and "subjective" as terms which should be used only in strictly limited contexts. Beyond that, they are problematical. And even can lead us astray. As in this example: "i see your foot." Obj. "I touch your foot." Obj. "I see my foot." Obj. "I touch my foot."Obj.(?) "I feel my foot moving." ?? "I remember seeing my foot." Subj. ??? Why should a memory recorded in the brain be any less objective than the seeing of the eye, or the impulse of the movement and perception of that movement ?
@@mondopinion3777 I think they're all objective and subjective in different respects, as I said they're perspectival. Subjective in so far as part of the experience of affect of the subject object in terms of that by which the subject is affected or towards which it is directed.
I learned new knowledge and understanding of this channel.. I am Filipino watching here in the Philippines. I love reading western books. The book of Jordan B. PETERSON is amazing.
The opening of the conversation reminded me of one of the latest episodes of LoS, with the discussion of "experiences of the grace of God", and the Nous: the "re-enchantment" is a "re-discovery" of what has always been there.
This was a beautiful conversation. I think the takeaway is that symbolism happens, not only on a grand, cultural level, but also in our everyday lives with our families and our communities, where attention matters most.
Believe it or not there is some serious synchronicity with what I am starting to hear right now and what I heard from Scott Adams this morning and the lectionary reading from yesterday.
I love the discussion about storytelling and how we participate in a story, and not just our own. We are defined by others and we define others. It's not about self-definition. EDIT: I'm near the end and I think this is one of the best video. It was really interesting. I'll definitively try and read your guest.
I always thought the Purim noise makers were about celebrating Esther and Mordecai in contrast to Haman. When the story is told, everyone gives a loud “booo!” when the name Haman is mentioned. But at the name of Esther (Hadassah in Hebrew) there clackers are used and a cheer is given. (Of course… there is likely a MUCH deeper meaning. I’m just not sure what it is. I’ve always been impressed at how well the Jewish people understand symbolism, story, and the poetry of God’s Holy Word.)
41:56 I do agree that becoming Orthodox or Catholic (I have also had this experience as an RC) makes you unique through your particular identity in Christ. For those interested in real diversity not the myopic modern idea, each of was created to reflect a particular aspect of the Godhead and as we become divinized/sanctified we become more ourselves. In losing our ego and adopting our God-assigned identity we become the one-of-a-kind creation God had in mind. Also love how Jonathan talks about Saints as those guideposts to that individuality.
Many will be familiar with E. Michael Jones I'm sure. Unlike Mr Jones I'm not of course a Catholic. However, in his writings he addresses many points that I think any Christian, including those of us who are Protestants should strongly consider. One of those points is the so-called "revolutionary spirit' that all human beings can be deceived by. Until we address that issue, as well as certain elements who probably carry that banner, we will never do anything but spin our wheels. That unfortunately would get us nowhere and nowhere is exactly where we are.
@14:00 "the amplification of sound" and the sounds that may not be so pretty is perhaps key to understanding our gift and mission as intermediaries to that "table" that is becoming our stumbler and stupor bearing dis-belief flatland of my hand held techno-clacker. Romans 11 comes to mind. What are we transmitting now?
in Latin the verb incanto, incantare means to put a spell on something. so etymologically it’s not just any song that enchants, but an... enchanting one ;), I take it in the sense of it being forcefully persuasive.
Wow. Thank you Frederica. I have been using the word reenchantment ever since I read and loved Berman's REENCHANTMENT OF THE WORLD, and never realized it was an ill-chosen term. Reality does not call for enchantment, but rather engagement, participation. I believe Owen Barfield wrote and taught about this using the word Participation.
It seems the message is ALL happened at the Cross, but if he were not raised we are dead in our sins. It is not a sin to be autonomous as we must all learn to judge as we are.
Experimenter: What sort of person are you? Subject: What can I say about my own heart? Experimenter: But who could tell about your heart other than you yourself? Subject: How can I talk about my character? Ask others; they can tell you about me. I myself can’t say anything. --A L Luria, "Cognitive Development"
Inappropriateness is one of features of that problem. This skill somehow was spilled beyond its reasonable boundaries and started to be used out of place. Maybe its proper boundaries was somehow watered down.
Perhaps I'm alone in this but i feel like i can't penetrate into the symbolist worldview. I see everyone in this comment section who has interiorized it with no problem and i feel like im perhaps materialist I can recognize some symbolism, for example i can see the different narratives in the lost child found in the temple, Jesus was "lost" and found "in the temple" during the passion and resurrection, so was Israel, so is resurgence of religion, so was many a man who went to church and converted and got saved. But i feel like i should grasp the primordial symbol of "lost child found", yet i don't, i only have a vague notion in my heart that i can't put into words. What's your advice?
Read more poetry. With prose your brain will automatically try to comprehend it. Poetry is the only thing you can read and “get,” without actually understanding a word. I’ve read poems that I swear speak to my soul, even though I don’t actually know what the author meant and often don’t understand the antiquated language. It’s like word magic. Psalms is poetry, but too often my brain tries to “dissect” every passage because it’s the Bible. Try The Lake Isle of Innisfree by Yeats. May God bless you.
Find another church fellowship! You don't say which denomination you're a part of, but orthodox Protestant denominations - LCMS, PCA, ACNA, SBC - have "churchfinder" services through their websites. I can't speak for the RCC or for the Orthodox churches. If such a thing is impossible in your area, try to organize a Bible study/prayer fellowship with others. There are probably others in your present church who are dismayed, as well. Start with them. They may well know people who are also bothered by the decline of orthodoxy in their churches, who would be interested in an orthodox group. Seriously: consider putting announcements on community bulletin boards in your area, such as supermarkets often have. Don't give up! Remember, wherever two or more are gathered in His Name, there is He. And if you find yourself all alone in terms of human fellowship, remember, Christ will never leave you or forsake you.
Johnathan, speaking about your third child in your 40s... had you started earlier you’d just have your 9th child and say “I’m getting old!” No matter if it’s your 3rd or your 9th because you started young.
Interesting to hear you say noise is associated with death. In Mexican and South American culture we have groups called Matachines that thank the Virgin Mary (Queen of Evangelism) for bringing us to Christ. They take traditional dance that was used for their many gods and now use it to celebrate the one true good. Part of the dance are the drums and rattles that are used. Your comment made me think that the tradition might actually mark the death of the old religion instead of celebrating the birth of the New. Look up a video of Matachines.
And that's mainly because St.Faustina was Polish, and it (the Trisagion) is an important part of Catholic tradition in that country, sung quite often in a simple (but powerful) mournful-sounding chant. Probably because of Poland's closeness to the East. Pretty much the only time the Trisagion is sung in the rest of the Catholic West now, traditionally, is for Holy/Good Friday, where the Greek (Hagios Theos...) is used in an interplay with Latin (Sanctus Deus...).
@@Xanaseb the Trisagion was more widespread in the West than just Eastern Europe. There is a basilica in Mexico, dating from early 1800's, that has the Trisagion inscribed in the facade in huge carved letters in Latin. The reason I remember is because that was the first time I encountered it, even before I heard about the Divine Mercy Chaplet. It intrigued me and I researched it back in the 90's...
@@silvinasi Ah, interesting! Well it is an important ancient prayer, so that doesn't surprise me that it is known and used, but still, it is not common in the liturgy itself
For me ? -- well I have been rethinking what I was taught about physics ever since I read, and proved to myself with careful trials, that you can dissolve a small fluffy cloud by gazing at it intently for 4 or 5 minutes. Now, 40 years after this simple release from "scientific" black-box indoctrination, I am deeply immersed in an I-Thou universe, learning every day with my communicative, gentle animals, and from the crows, and always from Yeshua.
. . and I should add that I follow, insofar as i am able to comprehend, , the advances in theoretical physics, because those guys are becoming very Participatory
Amazing. You don't define yourself. Ask the people who knows me to know my heart. Education does equal superiority or knowledge. In this world we equate level of schooling and certifications as to worth of a human. Rather we need wisdom from God not this world.
secular mysticism is part of every religion and government, i am the only authority heaven blessed on the surface of the planet right now. It doesn't matter which side I am on, I was raised roman catholic but am now unified christian with a dash of Buddhism for Presents. Heaven on earth is the goal. unite humanity under christ, I will deal with the other, he too must join the fold after, hopefully ( I know people aren't going to like that but it has to be 100%) I am here to fix things, I think, I hope.
There is a lot of good things in this interview. However, it got spoiled by the boosting of a picturesque life with a dozen of grandchildren. Please remember the teaching and suffering of Christ. The cardinal sin is not ‘autonomous’, it is ‘pride’. More humility and agape would be good.
The discussion of the advantages of young marriage is very idealised to our real-life rather gritty contemporary Western world. In raw number terms younger marriages are more likely to end in divorce. Average divorce rates are cruising along are ~50%. A man legally obligated to provide alimony, loss of custody (or even access) of children and loss of "his" home + becoming socially isolated. Well suffice it to say for those 10's of millions of men they are gradually disabused of any Disneyland notions of marriage for life with your "soul-partner" and such nonsense. Sorry Fredericka but unfortunately with variations of extent, that's how it goes down for most working-class Caucassian men. Not purty at all.
![How to pray without ceasing [Frederica Mathewes-Green on Prayer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oEyuSVHf4gw/mqdefault.jpg)
![How to pray without ceasing [Frederica Mathewes-Green on Prayer]](/img/tr.png)
Frederica is the grandmother we all need on UA-cam. Such a gem.
🌞
Pray for me, a sinner, i say that because theres something about her that puts me off. Idk, its super werid. Theres no reason why i should be suspect of her. I just cant bring myself to listen to her fully, as if somethings hidden :(
@@Bakarost People that hold piety can tend to have this effect on folks.
@@Bakarost I'm so sorry. If you end up wanting to talk about it, feel free to email me--there's a contact form on my website.
getting strong dumdum incel vibes from this youtuber dork
I'm going to become Orthodox. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ 🙏
Awesome!
Me too, I think. I've been listening to (and praying with) Orthodox music for years now (especially Valaam monks and Cappella Romana) and have now been listening to lots of talks on Orthodoxy, and it's drawing me in... UA-cam is Orthodoxy's secret weapon.
Frederica and Jonathan give off the same vibe....which is a compliment of course.
“You don’t define yourself, you don’t make up your own profile.” I love how Frederica understands that identity is a community mediated phenomenon.
And that is no more obvious than your own name.
You never gave yourself your own name, language, beliefs etc.
All you can do is choose what you do later after your identity has been created from the community/God
@@deanmccrorie3461 I think this is a little more deterministic than reality. We do choose our beliefs and many other things related to ourselves. But we aren't doing so in a vacuum, away from the experience and approval - dissaproval of others.
@@strugglingathome Thats what i said. You choose your beliefs. But only retroactively.
Meaning as you age
Simply because you dont have access to other beliefs until others or god give them to you.
Otherwise your getting your name, beliefs etc out of nothing like a magician from birth
The lack of enchantment in modernity is very much why I wandered down the Neo-pagan path for over a decade in my early life... before I was shown TRUE enchantment of the Eucharist. I NEED these type of conversations, so thank you so very much!
Protestant Christian here on the road to Eastern Orthodox….and the beauty and mystical caught my soul off guard. And it makes so much more sense. ☦️💟
16:00 The Trisagion was the first piece of Orthodox hymnody I fell in love with.
Me toooooo ☦️💕
38:30 - The "formality and informality," the organization yet sometimes the confusion that seems to be present. -- I feel so blessed to have been able to live close to a small skete for a little over a year, and the Hieromonk asked me to assist in the altar (I was a 53 year old altar boy!). At one of the first liturgies I assisted in, he told me what his spiritual father had told him: "If you see me make a mistake, if you notice that I forgot a prayer or accidentally omitted something - don't interrupt me in the moment, but bring it to my attention after the conclusion of the service." And then he told me that his spiritual father had told him that "the angels are present with us when we are serving in the altar, and they make up for whatever mistakes we make." This sums up that "organic" nature of Orthodoxy you spoke about and the organized yet sometimes chaotic nature of the services.
I could have listened to that for hours. Frederica is truly amazing. Her books on the Jesus prayer and Mary are fantastic reads in their simplicity and honesty. A shining example of the power of the feminine...
What a lovely woman. Jonathan, that's what we need. A soothing and grounding mother's touch after engaging with some highly intellectual and somewhat abstract stuff.
I love Frederica! She's always radiating and smiling! :)
Looking forward for this conversation! :)
I'm always excited to hear anyone promote The Ethics of Beauty.
Your discussion of the wooden noisemakers being used on Great and Holy Friday (at about the 14 min. mark) made me think of our parish practice during Matins of Holy Friday. Someone in the altar makes a slow hammer sound (striking together two wooden hammer handles) after each of there 12 Passion Gospel readings. So by the midpoint of the service it really drives home the sense of the nails being driven into Christ's hands and feet. This coupled with the extinguishing one by one of the 12 candles on the liturgical table creates a steadily more powerful crescendo of hammering and growing darkness, so that by the time the last candle is extinguished after the last Gospel reading, and the last 12 hammerings are heard, the church seems literally filled with the stillness of death. Immensely powerful!
Interesting, which tradition?
That would be incredibly powerful, especially after everything in the week before, building up to that day!
I love her. When I first started watching Jonathan's videos I bought her audiobook about what it's like to be a part of the orthodox church. It's so good to see her here now
Frederica is amazing. God grant her many years!
By your prayers!
I am a Roman Catholic and experienced this orthodox tradition through the Catholic Lay apostolate of Madonna House in Combermere, Ontario (Russian foundress, Servant of God Catherine Doherty), and at St. Elias Ukrainian Catholic Byzantine Church in Brampton, Ontario. The Roman Rite is re-discovering herself and my prayer is that she learns to breathe with her 2 lungs again, east and west. Glory to God!
Oh my yes. In just the first few minutes of this talk, my soul is lifted. As I am mostly a worship musician, the idea that this entire existence is a song, begun in the breath of the Creator, then carried on by all He has and is creating. Thus, “en-chant-ment” is truly bringing the song into the world…even though the song has always been here, many have not had the ears to hear it. I could go on and on…I am hearing these talks at least a year after they’re posted, and sometimes years later, but they are still sounding out in truth…and I am still singing.
Have her back on! She's a light. Glory to Jesus Christ!
Beautiful conversation
This conversation was bound to happen!!
inevitable**** ;)
In the Byzantine Church (from Romania) they make noise and rumble during the Holy Saturday Liturgy, representing the souls brought out from Hades when Jesus descended there to bring them up. They also dispersed bay (laurel) leaves representing said souls.
I had seen the strewn leaves in some parishes but did not know what they represented! Thank you for your comment.
Interesting that it's bay leaves that are used, a great bitter herb for cooking :D
Beautiful and edifying
Thank you for your videos!
May all of our stories unite into the one True story of Christ and His Church. What a treasure of literature and spiritual healing Orthodoxy provides during these troubling times. Glory to God!
*thank you* for encouraging me in the whole 'settle young, get married young, have kids'. i am in the throes of that right now, so i shall be clinging to your advice!
Heartwarming. Yes.
37 min mark - "Marinating!" Yes! Orthodoxy has to seep into our bones! Literally, as we see from the incorrupt relics of the saints!
Great anecdote about Fr Roman Braga of blessed memory answering the question about how many times must I say the Jesus Prayer before I see the uncreated light! Reminds me of a comment by St Paisios of Mt Athos, who warned against introducing technology or modern conveniences into our worship and the praxis of the Faith, and I paraphrase, "before you know it, you'll be able to use a mannequin on a rope and pulley to raise and lower to do your prostrations for you while you sit in your prayer corner and read comfortably."
Fascinating discussion and many insights from Jonathan and Frederica. Thank you and God bless you.
Christ is risen! What a joyful conversation!
We have the "clackers" at our Good Friday Catholic Mass. The knocking or "clacking" sound it makes represents the hammering of the nails into the hands and feet of Christ to the cross.
Just what I needed to finish my workday. Everyone else, enjoy your Memorial Day!
Please invite her back!
I was on the verge of Spirit-filled tears at least 3 times. Thank you both so much. God bless you both
in 47:16 I felt that... I constantly feel like Im being called by God. Little signs here and there. But, at the same time I feel joy, light and revelation in this signs, I also fear to accept the idea entirely, because my life would completely change. Thats frightening. Im becoming a really paradoxal thinker and my life feels like a rollercoaster. Dont really know how to accept God and pathing towards Him. Your videos have helped me to understand a lot doe and for that Im really thankful, Jonathan!
I felt the same way! After becoming Orthodox at age 56 God clearly led me through all kinds of signs and occurrences to marry a deacon whose wife had died. I had wanted to become a nun! It was a huge struggle but I finally cried out to God that I would sacrifice my will to be a servant and wife to this man who makes beeswax candles for the church. Now we are on a huge adventure building an Orthodox Christian Healing Arts Center in our 8000 square foot candle factory. Keep trusting God and let Him change your life completely. Be willing to give up everything to follow Him! 🙏🏻☦️🙏🏻
Our center is called the Union of All Orthodox Christian Healing Arts Center, being built near St Silouan ROCOR monastery in central California. We will have a big conference retreat room, small group prayer Bible study counseling room, infrared saunas and an encaustic art studio for people to make their own art.
@@orthodoxboomergrandma3561 God bless you and may he prosper your ministry! You will look back one day and laugh and say "To think I wanted to be a nun."
24:47 so identity is a social construct, but not arbitrary. Being human is rooted in biology, but Personhood emerges within a network of familial and communal relations oriented towards trust, care and love of God and Neighbor.
Personhood exists in animals too. We recognize this especially, I think, in animals who live with humans, yet also in elephants, gorillas, dolphins. I believe it is an aspect of God that is emergent in consciousness. Animals with great personhood often are given full military and police funerals by the humans who knew them,
The 7 firs Council's and the East in general use "hypostasis" rather than prosopon, the Greek equivalent of the Latin "persona." Hypostasis, meaning "individual substance" emphasizes the more objective side of personhood, whearas person/prosopon the more subjective side. We need I think to emphasize that the person is a substantial reality (body, soul and spirit, not just the lower aspects but the higher as well). Of course in the end objective and subjective are perspectival terms that look at reality from different angels. We must certainly acknowledge that our subjectivity is part of reality, it is that which knows or is otherwise affected by the object, some of those objects are other subjects which ought to be experienced and related to as such. We can even apply objective in a positive sense in their regard, we must not treat persons as mere objects, on the other hand we must not relate to them merely in relation to our subjectivity (which is actually what objectify means in the negative sense) but at least in part in their alterity/ objectify. Its complicated, but simple if we aren't too inflexible about words.
@@greenchristendom4116 I regard "objective" and "subjective" as terms which should be used only in strictly limited contexts. Beyond that, they are problematical. And even can lead us astray. As in this example:
"i see your foot." Obj.
"I touch your foot." Obj.
"I see my foot." Obj.
"I touch my foot."Obj.(?)
"I feel my foot moving." ??
"I remember seeing my foot." Subj. ???
Why should a memory recorded in the brain be any less objective than the seeing of the eye, or the impulse of the movement and perception of that movement ?
@@mondopinion3777 I think they're all objective and subjective in different respects, as I said they're perspectival. Subjective in so far as part of the experience of affect of the subject object in terms of that by which the subject is affected or towards which it is directed.
@@mondopinion3777 maybe emphasizing person as a substantial reality rather than just a developed sense of identity would be a good way to put it
This woman is a saint.
26:10 This is why I keep saying it's a belonging crisis more than a meaning crisis that ails us.
Beautiful!
This was a really great interview. Very warm but informative and still not very long!
I learned new knowledge and understanding of this channel.. I am Filipino watching here in the Philippines. I love reading western books. The book of Jordan B. PETERSON is amazing.
Brilliant. Thanks to both of you.
Love her.
Everything about this video is great.
The opening of the conversation reminded me of one of the latest episodes of LoS, with the discussion of "experiences of the grace of God", and the Nous: the "re-enchantment" is a "re-discovery" of what has always been there.
This was a beautiful conversation. I think the takeaway is that symbolism happens, not only on a grand, cultural level, but also in our everyday lives with our families and our communities, where attention matters most.
FINALLY!! So thrilled you two were able to chat.
What a blessing
Thank you for an amazing and enlightening and delightful conversation!
She is wonderful! I love her point about abstractions, that was interesting!
Maybe what’s needed is not the re-enchantment of the world but re-enchantment of ourselves?
Agree- re-enchantment of the modern mindset perhaps?
We just need to learn to recognize The Enchantment.
That was beautiful 😭🥰
Believe it or not there is some serious synchronicity with what I am starting to hear right now and what I heard from Scott Adams this morning and the lectionary reading from yesterday.
Thanks
This was beautiful!
Thank you!
I love the discussion about storytelling and how we participate in a story, and not just our own. We are defined by others and we define others. It's not about self-definition. EDIT: I'm near the end and I think this is one of the best video. It was really interesting. I'll definitively try and read your guest.
I have read several of her books and all have been excellent!
I always thought the Purim noise makers were about celebrating Esther and Mordecai in contrast to Haman. When the story is told, everyone gives a loud “booo!” when the name Haman is mentioned. But at the name of Esther (Hadassah in Hebrew) there clackers are used and a cheer is given. (Of course… there is likely a MUCH deeper meaning. I’m just not sure what it is. I’ve always been impressed at how well the Jewish people understand symbolism, story, and the poetry of God’s Holy Word.)
41:56 I do agree that becoming Orthodox or Catholic (I have also had this experience as an RC) makes you unique through your particular identity in Christ. For those interested in real diversity not the myopic modern idea, each of was created to reflect a particular aspect of the Godhead and as we become divinized/sanctified we become more ourselves. In losing our ego and adopting our God-assigned identity we become the one-of-a-kind creation God had in mind. Also love how Jonathan talks about Saints as those guideposts to that individuality.
Was waiting for this one to come out
I hope this guest is able to come on again
Here in our late 50s and early 60s, my husband and I have accepted that it’s okay to be “poor”, relatively. The Divine provision is amazing.
Loved this one!
I feel exactly the same way about "re-enchantment" -- thank you for articulating your objections.
I was just being nit-picky about etymology. Jonathan uses it in a way that actually corresponds to reality.
Many will be familiar with E. Michael Jones I'm sure. Unlike Mr Jones I'm not of course a Catholic. However, in his writings he addresses many points that I think any Christian, including those of us who are Protestants should strongly consider. One of those points is the so-called "revolutionary spirit' that all human beings can be deceived by. Until we address that issue, as well as certain elements who probably carry that banner, we will never do anything but spin our
wheels. That unfortunately would get us nowhere and nowhere is exactly where we are.
the beginning was Enchantment - the themes and Song of the Word
This is great
@14:00 "the amplification of sound" and the sounds that may not be so pretty is perhaps key to understanding our gift and mission as intermediaries to that "table" that is becoming our stumbler and stupor bearing dis-belief flatland of my hand held techno-clacker. Romans 11 comes to mind. What are we transmitting now?
in Latin the verb incanto, incantare means to put a spell on something. so etymologically it’s not just any song that enchants, but an... enchanting one ;), I take it in the sense of it being forcefully persuasive.
Haha.... Software to say the Jesus Prayer on a never-ending loop to mine for the Uncreated Light.. 😂
I think I understand bitcoin better now.
Wow. Thank you Frederica. I have been using the word reenchantment ever since I read and loved Berman's REENCHANTMENT OF THE WORLD, and never realized it was an ill-chosen term. Reality does not call for enchantment, but rather engagement, participation. I believe Owen Barfield wrote and taught about this using the word Participation.
I concur, enchantment means mesmerize and control. Jesus gives free will to follow or not. He participated in our salvation and we in Him.
We really need a conversation between Jonathan and Michael Heiser.
The crossover we need
This aged sadly.
@@jamersbazuka8055 Yep, Pageau should still interact with Heisers material though.
wow!
Yaaaay!
orthodoxy is the true way, cheers from Greece (read about Agios Paisios)
what is conspicuous consumption?
It seems the message is ALL happened at the Cross, but if he were not raised we are dead in our sins. It is not a sin to be autonomous as we must all learn to judge as we are.
Best tolk yet
Experimenter: What sort of person are you?
Subject: What can I say about my own heart?
Experimenter: But who could tell about your heart other than you yourself?
Subject: How can I talk about my character? Ask others; they can tell you about me. I myself can’t say anything.
--A L Luria, "Cognitive Development"
Reducing things to abstraction is the sickness!
Inappropriateness is one of features of that problem. This skill somehow was spilled beyond its reasonable boundaries and started to be used out of place. Maybe its proper boundaries was somehow watered down.
Those "clackers" she's referring to are Greek worry beads.
No, it's more like a wooden rattle. The Greek term is "krotalon."
Or the clacking could be the clacking sound the throat makes at death. My grandfather made this sound
Jonathan how come you havent any symbolic analysis in aronofskys movies like Noah or P ?
How do I know that I have answered the call? Is it just a conversion to christianity?
I’m still uncertain about what you mean by enchantment. I’ve always associated the word with evil.
32:35 wait is something supposedly wrong with powdered milk?
Pelase make a video of the symbolism in the japanes anime Neon Gensesis Evangelion
Perhaps I'm alone in this but i feel like i can't penetrate into the symbolist worldview.
I see everyone in this comment section who has interiorized it with no problem and i feel like im perhaps materialist
I can recognize some symbolism, for example i can see the different narratives in the lost child found in the temple, Jesus was "lost" and found "in the temple" during the passion and resurrection, so was Israel, so is resurgence of religion, so was many a man who went to church and converted and got saved.
But i feel like i should grasp the primordial symbol of "lost child found", yet i don't, i only have a vague notion in my heart that i can't put into words.
What's your advice?
Read more poetry. With prose your brain will automatically try to comprehend it. Poetry is the only thing you can read and “get,” without actually understanding a word. I’ve read poems that I swear speak to my soul, even though I don’t actually know what the author meant and often don’t understand the antiquated language. It’s like word magic. Psalms is poetry, but too often my brain tries to “dissect” every passage because it’s the Bible. Try The Lake Isle of Innisfree by Yeats. May God bless you.
I’d like to be in community but my church is becoming woke and I don’t know how to relate.
Find another church fellowship! You don't say which denomination you're a part of, but orthodox Protestant denominations - LCMS, PCA, ACNA, SBC - have "churchfinder" services through their websites. I can't speak for the RCC or for the Orthodox churches.
If such a thing is impossible in your area, try to organize a Bible study/prayer fellowship with others. There are probably others in your present church who are dismayed, as well. Start with them. They may well know people who are also bothered by the decline of orthodoxy in their churches, who would be interested in an orthodox group.
Seriously: consider putting announcements on community bulletin boards in your area, such as supermarkets often have.
Don't give up! Remember, wherever two or more are gathered in His Name, there is He. And if you find yourself all alone in terms of human fellowship, remember, Christ will never leave you or forsake you.
Johnathan, speaking about your third child in your 40s... had you started earlier you’d just have your 9th child and say “I’m getting old!” No matter if it’s your 3rd or your 9th because you started young.
Interesting to hear you say noise is associated with death. In Mexican and South American culture we have groups called Matachines that thank the Virgin Mary (Queen of Evangelism) for bringing us to Christ. They take traditional dance that was used for their many gods and now use it to celebrate the one true good. Part of the dance are the drums and rattles that are used. Your comment made me think that the tradition might actually mark the death of the old religion instead of celebrating the birth of the New. Look up a video of Matachines.
Catholics use that chant on/at Divine Mercy prayer.
I was thinking, “hey! I know that chant!” Haha
And that's mainly because St.Faustina was Polish, and it (the Trisagion) is an important part of Catholic tradition in that country, sung quite often in a simple (but powerful) mournful-sounding chant. Probably because of Poland's closeness to the East.
Pretty much the only time the Trisagion is sung in the rest of the Catholic West now, traditionally, is for Holy/Good Friday, where the Greek (Hagios Theos...) is used in an interplay with Latin (Sanctus Deus...).
@@Xanaseb the Trisagion was more widespread in the West than just Eastern Europe. There is a basilica in Mexico, dating from early 1800's, that has the Trisagion inscribed in the facade in huge carved letters in Latin. The reason I remember is because that was the first time I encountered it, even before I heard about the Divine Mercy Chaplet. It intrigued me and I researched it back in the 90's...
@@silvinasi Ah, interesting! Well it is an important ancient prayer, so that doesn't surprise me that it is known and used, but still, it is not common in the liturgy itself
24:35
For me it's abstraction to life n family are very important ..what's for u !!?🤔
For me ? -- well I have been rethinking what I was taught about physics ever since I read, and proved to myself with careful trials, that you can dissolve a small fluffy cloud by gazing at it intently for 4 or 5 minutes. Now, 40 years after this simple release from "scientific" black-box indoctrination, I am deeply immersed in an I-Thou universe, learning every day with my communicative, gentle animals, and from the crows, and always from Yeshua.
. . and I should add that I follow, insofar as i am able to comprehend, , the advances in theoretical physics, because those guys are becoming very Participatory
The Incarnation is the total opposite of inchantment. This is a deceptive path
Amazing. You don't define yourself.
Ask the people who knows me to know my heart.
Education does equal superiority or knowledge.
In this world we equate level of schooling and certifications as to worth of a human. Rather we need wisdom from God not this world.
secular mysticism is part of every religion and government, i am the only authority heaven blessed on the surface of the planet right now. It doesn't matter which side I am on, I was raised roman catholic but am now unified christian with a dash of Buddhism for Presents. Heaven on earth is the goal. unite humanity under christ, I will deal with the other, he too must join the fold after, hopefully ( I know people aren't going to like that but it has to be 100%) I am here to fix things, I think, I hope.
You're here either to be exorcised or to be on psychiatric medications.
Would love to see your reaction on new viral video of Altiyan Childs (xfactor winner) exposing secret religion of elites and celebrities
There is a lot of good things in this interview. However, it got spoiled by the boosting of a picturesque life with a dozen of grandchildren. Please remember the teaching and suffering of Christ. The cardinal sin is not ‘autonomous’, it is ‘pride’. More humility and agape would be good.
The discussion of the advantages of young marriage is very idealised to our real-life rather gritty contemporary Western world.
In raw number terms younger marriages are more likely to end in divorce. Average divorce rates are cruising along are ~50%. A man legally obligated to provide alimony, loss of custody (or even access) of children and loss of "his" home + becoming socially isolated. Well suffice it to say for those 10's of millions of men they are gradually disabused of any Disneyland notions of marriage for life with your "soul-partner" and such nonsense. Sorry Fredericka but unfortunately with variations of extent, that's how it goes down for most working-class Caucassian men. Not purty at all.
Don't trust Youssef. He and his lieutenant Veni Vidi Vici are jerks!!!