Loving the shoutout to the Silmarillion. If you read the creation story in the opening chapters the analogy to the origin of Sin from Pride is crazy! Especially if you’re a musician, and if you’ve witnessed how sharing in the creation of music can so easily devolve into an ego battle. Peace!! ✌️😎💜
Thank you for this work introducing father Andrew’s Amon Sul podcast. I think what you guys are doing is so great! At first I didn’t know what to make of you, now I wait for your new videos with no small amount of anticipation.
Aliens are kinds of daimons. Elves and fairies are also daimons - for certain peoples, in certain places , at certain times, depending on their collective spiritual zeitgeist, and the predisposition of certain individuals to see them, while many others did not. In our own collective moment, living as we've been in a society of relentless untruthfulness, and the levels of anxiety that modernity has created in us, many have become susceptible to seeing the kinds of daimons that are in accord with our spiritual and existential condition - namely, the aliens that appeared to some of the vulnerable.
@@PetrusSolus, yes, in many stories about fairies I have came across from Ireland and even leprechauns they tend to be mischievous beings. This is the same with aliens, how you have people experiencing this psychedelic state were they are being tortured by these disturbing looking beings. Even gnomes from Scandinavian tradition consist of the mischievous being that you must please so it wont destroy your home.
@@aarhermano499 Yes, but more can be said, which is that over time, visions of negative beings on the part of experiencers changed to positive perceptions over time, since the original beings were "colored" by the hidden material in the subconscious that was projected onto them. The effective processing of one's karma should eventually change one's perception of reality, no? Same would apply to the experience of hell. Certain people with spiritual limitations will experience their afterlife state as hellish, because the intensity of the light is too great for them, while those who've cultivated themselves spiritually to higher spiritual levels will experience bliss instead.
Some people from a sect approached a priest I knew - they didn't recognize him from behind, and asked: "Do you want to talk about God?" He turned around and said: "I am an Orthodox priest, and - yes, I would love to talk about God." They immediately disappeared after that :)
@@barry.anderberg ??? Doing what, talking about spiritual beings? None of them look any older then Heiser and he was reading commentaries in high school on "this stuff" so...
Regarding psychedelics and "what the monster has to teach you," I think the person you were talking to is misunderstanding this. Not recommending psychedelic use, but in my experience, the monster doesn't _teach_ you anything, the _encounter_ with the monster teaches you things. It's not "what does this being have to teach me," but rather, "what would I have to be in order to vanquish this and make it go away?" It's sort of like a bronze serpent of Moses scenario.
@@Pilgrim22 I did a series of trips on dmt.. It was a period long gone but had some very dark experiences.. But during one trip everything fell in place and I saw how this darkness could only do something if I was open to it, maybe through fear but anyway, after that time, whenever things became dark I would just stare at it, trusting that all would be well and thus not afraid at all and it would disappear immediately.. I really don't know at what level to interpret all of the experiences so I am not assuming anything about it.. But that lesson has come back throughout my life many times and in part showed me the way back to Christ.. Trusting Him being the way to go to not be afraid and let the dark in..
@@petrrtep7657 Yeah psychedelics are intense. Lots of strange things can happen to us while in that state so I understand everyones hesitation on the topic. I do also think that they can be a vehicle for deception depending on the spiritual state of the individual. My take away from my experiences is to stay focused on God at all times lest the monster takes our attention... because they are out there in many forms. Now that I have found Christ and the true church I am no longer interested in these substances.
Part of the problem might be that the person Jonathan talks about (JBP?) is still struggling with some degree of a materialist mindset. Whenever I've taken psychedelics in the past (mushrooms, LSD), I've encountered material things on a much more spiritual level, asking the kinds of questions that Matthieu talks about in his book: What is the meaning of this? What truth does it embody? It wasn't until listening to JBP and the Pageaus that I began to be able to put this into words. Some people do have legitimately bad experiences though, which is why setting/mindset have been so important in psychedelic culture. I'd like for Jonathan to understand the psychedelic experience, but, in a way, he kind of understands it already.
@15:00 Describing the spiritual reality as a overlapping transparency reminds me of Narnia, where Aslan's Kingdom _is_ Narnia, but infinitely bigger and more full, overlaying the mundane Narnia the characters had known.
So glad you guys addressed psychedelics. I warn my clients against them for the same reason. Are they having "spiritual" experiences? Sure. But not godly ones . . . at least generally; I've heard some stories of God intervening by grace.
I love Jonathan with all of my heart, but he is speaking from a place of ignorance. And for someone who spends so much time making fun of people who are stuck in a literal or materialistic mindset, he is not making a serious effort to understand the way that psychedelics interact with our spiritual experiences.
I've been a Christian since I was very young. My first interactions with them cured 30 years of suicidal depression. I love God and His world more directly. Maybe because I was a scientist/ materialist and got "de-materialized" and have a proper worldview just from the experience. But the natural "spirit" of the "place" was so loving, forgiving, and placed my grieving hand in God's. This is why I am now interested in Orthodoxy.
@@jesh879 agreed. It is rather surprising how courageous he is, in general. But when it comes to this subject, he backs out and relies on a kind of ignorance feigned as faith. Be might be scared, to be honest. At least he rightfully knows how dangerous they can be. Jordan Peterson has a good talk with Dennis McKenna on the use of them (Dennis is the brother of Terence McKenna). There are also some clips on YT where Jordan talks about it with Pageau. However, this video encapsulates best what Pageau's pov is on this subject. I've looked around to see if his opinion has changed but it is rather constant. It is a really important subject, especially in relationship to Christianity and the Hellenic world. There is a crazy book called Sacred Mushroom on the Cross. I do not endorse it, but it is very thought provoking. Hope Johnathan would consider these points of views more often and more seriously. It is as "fringe" as it gets. His hermeneutics relies on faith and reading safely in his home, but I don't think he'll ever go into the woods alone... I love the man, but this might be his one shortcoming as a truth seeker.
One big question is if what one sees on psychedelics is a manifestations of one's self, like projection of some sort, of if there are real external entities. Johnathan seems to implicitly subscribe to the latter, which is totally fair and convincing. At the same time, not all such entities may be malevolent. If it is a projection of oneself in some way, I think it is very similar to the Guardian at the Threshold. Rudolf Steiner's How to Know Higher World's gives a great account in what he Guardian is. This might explain while people grow so much after having trips because they were able to pass the threshold and overcome the guardian. This would also explain why some trips may also be so bad for people because they cannot face themselves when compelled to. I am of the opinion that it is both a projection of one's self and an interaction with other entities. The Self and the Other.
@@SokofeatherEven as an Anti Augustinian protestant, I have learned so much from Eastern Orthodoxy. How one understands "conceived by the Holy Spirit" is of massive importance. It one understands like most protestants and Augustine in his blasphemous slander that the Holy Spirit "planted immaculate sperm" in Mary to create a "hybrid Jesus" Justin Martyr says you "misunderstand what we say" Jesus isn't a Nephelim son of the Holy Spirit. He was generated/Begotten before all ages of the substance of His Father alone, and conceived in time of the substance of His mother alone. The incarnation is about saving the Adamic Spermatos "flesh" not replacing it with a super spirit-human flesh after the manner of unlawful procreation. As a former augustinian protestant preacher and missionary I can tell you Rome and her daughter cults are man flesh hating haunts of unclean spirits. I was inhabited by a Nephelim "demon" before the real Jesus exercised the demon I was told was the Holy Spirit. Prelest is a very real spiritual illness and most western heresy can be traced to the accursed Augustine whom some Eastern Orthodox call "Disgustin Augustin" and not a Saint. Penal death and penal substitution can be found in Augustine as well as many other heresy that are completely unorthodox but are "orthodox" by today's standards. The True Light shines brighter through what I call "Empirical Orthodoxy" than it does through western traditions. May GOD save us through His Christ!
Amazing information on my favorite research subjects! God bless all three of you greatly! I need to find an Orthodox church near me, because I need to learn more of their theology. I get grief from protestants for reading noncannonical books, and I see them as an important tool in trying to understand the big picture.
I have only ever encountered three types of embodied spirits: creatures with material bodies, inimical demons/eldritch horrors with subtle bodies, and neutral/ambivalent beings with subtle bodies who don't really care all that much. The Church did not seem like a place I belonged, but then I heard about St. Christopher and started to think maybe. Still figuring out how/where I fit into this whole thing.
@@sempelpang the quest for truth continues because I did not find it in Eastern Orthodoxy. I suspect that all religions will have the same issues with asserting falsehoods as truth.
@@k98killer I think I might know what you mean. For what it's worth, I think if you are looking for an accurate set of beliefs or assertions about reality, as information presented by religions or spiritual traditions, you will never find it. I've searched for many years as well and have been disappointed. Traditional Christian doctrine lacks many aspects of spiritual realities that I think are real. No one tradition will ever be able to describe our magnificently complex and vast seen and unseen worlds. But I've found the only "truth" that actually matters is walking the path of Christ. It's not found in information - can never be expressed in words or ideas, actually - but in voluntarily sacrificing myself, dying to myself, and thus participating in the cosmic reality of Christ's resurrection. It's the experience itself. I don't understand it, it's not for the faint of heart, and it's not as fun as a lot of the new age/ancient mystery religion/law of attraction stuff I was into for many years, but it's the only thing that actually works. Whatever your thoughts are about Eastern Orthodoxy, or any set of beliefs for that matter, know that joining with Christ in his self-denial, suffering, service, and total lack of anxiety about the future will lead to your becoming more human, and ultimately to union with God.
When they were discussing how we shouldn't not get wisdom from monsters I recalled JBP mentioning quote by Jung "Beware of unearned wisdom". Seems to fit the story here. But then I remembered part of C.S. Lewis "Why am I not a pacifist" lecture. There he explains how one builds knowledge/understanding of truth by: 1) Input - facts observed + facts "learned", from others (and in fact for the most part, one uses the 2nd one) 2) some obvious base deductions 3) A -> B -> C chain of reasoning Similar on a moral plain with moral truths. But big chunk of point 1, Input comes from others, through authority. We believe others - family, friends, media, internet. Believing authority is a kind of "unearned wisdom". And we are curious creations that have different levels of knowing - we might know that the stove is hot, but when we burn ourselves - Then boy do we know it. XD For days and weeks after we "know" ;). But with current pretty much non-existence of real authority - I'm totally not surprised by flat earthers on one side, and fake news on the other. And that's a curious riddle - as authority is good, and necessary, but we're likely to fail using it - what then ? I came up with some source of Truth - being it the Word of God - Bible or Christ, and authorities being more believable, the more they point to the source. It feels right, but it doesn't sound right XD.
I just learned today that the INAH (National Institute of History and Anthropology) here in Mexico, which is a very important institution for the study of prehispanic Mexican history, released a book of "silenced" ghost stories narrated by serious academics and researchers of the institute during field studies over archaeological sites. It blew my mind and I had to return here to see what Frs. Stephen and Andrew and Jonathan had to tell about it. It´s incredible how the Symbolic World is breaking loose.
Ahhh I found out about that book too! It’s really interesting. It confirmed my intuitions about the prehispanic world and now having listened to the Lord of Spirits podcast it all makes sense. And it is quite common that people here in Mexico idolize the ancient prehispanic cultures and want to go back to those forms of idolatry because “they were more pure” and “are our true identity as Mexicans” without really knowing what that implies. It is no coincidence that we have our own manifestation of the Virgin Mary who takes the prehispanic cultures, transforms them, and points them towards God. With the proper lens our national history makes sense and it becomes clear that we are part of a larger story.
@@sunnysideoop278 Yes! It makes tons of sense. Great to hear from a fellow Mexican Jonathan Pageau enjoyer, I'm not alone! There's a lot of insght waiting for us if we study this channel.
Always enjoyed the Tolkien podcast with Fr Andrew. Will check out the Lord of Spirits one now. In Islamic tradition isn’t Satan a jinn that rebels because he’s made of like fire and air and thinks Adam being made of earth is lesser than him and won’t be subject to Adam in hierarchy? Anyone remember if the watchers were Jinns as well in that story? I know they have a similar story. I agree with Jonathan the jinns are interesting even though I ascribe exclusively to the 2nd temple/Christian worldview. Agree with another commenter, Dr. Mike Heiser talks about this quite a bit in his books and lectures. Thanks guys, God bless.
One word of caution on these things. From experience, it's very easy for a functional materialist to get very enamoured with the spectacular and sensational. These things are a very real reality, but the experience thereof is not something to seek in itself, tempting as that may be. It should be a natural part of faithfully seeking the kingdom of God and his righteousness.
I'm late to this video, (and early in) but I'm also a fan of Paula Fredriksen who has done I think an invaluable service by bringing the polytheistic ancient world back to life so when we read "...every knee shall bend" we know it is not simply referring to the material world. I also don't believe you can read something like Mark's gospel (or Revelation) without an acceptance that God is not the only force at work in the world. I look forward to the rest of this conversation.
Great discussion, thankyou. Re: Enoch. I think it fell out of favour as a consequence of the battle between the Church and the Manichaean heresy. The Enochian literature was heavily exploited by the Manicheans in their gnostic mythos. Augustine, being a former member of the sect, would thus have reason to reject it. Manichaeism was the main rival to Christianity during late antiquity.
the texts like Enoch vere an attempt to preserve pagan wisdom by hiding it in the chrisrian language.. the pseudo-dionysus texts are that.. some managed to outsmart the church censorship, some didn't.. now we are free to see what they really say..
The resistance really comes down to modern teachings that claim a form of belief while rejecting the power of the spiritual battle. The watered down, uselessness of modern teaching and complete lack of transparency is the root cause of the human condition. If humanity took seriously the spiritual aspects of the universe we live in, if we fully understood our existence as being on multiple planes simultaneously, then literalism would not limit our responses or the skills we are developing - personally or collectively. For the most part, humanity is hopelessly lost in psychic illusions, while totally ignorant of and vulnerable to our real enemies. We are consistently set up to fight each other, wasting ourselves and our powers. There is a consistency between ancient and modern civilizations as being dangerously vulnerable to confusion of the human role and capacity as a specie. Without a proper framework to set ourselves in, we are at the mercy of those with greater knowledge and malicious intent toward us. That’s as real as it gets.
Re "If you see a ghost of a family member, assume it's a demon..." There was an interesting episode of Star Trek Voyager ("Coda") which demonstrates that point.
I thought this talk was SO great, and got me really excited about there podcast.. and it is great.. The only trouble I run into is.. as someone who's largely ignorant of this Orthodox tradition.. there's a lot of places where it can be challenging to critically engage with.. and maintain sorta epistemological integrity.. where truth-e-ness claims are often made based on the relationship to the authority of the church / tradition and it's like "yeah, but I'm totally ignorant of this.. so I'm not really in a place where I can make judgements about how I should regard that authority." The best I've been able to do is to try and seek out other perspectives on these kinds of things.. which isn't super easy for me to find.. and see if that reveals anything to me. The best I've been able to do on this is Marie-Louise von Franz.. who was a close collaborator with Jung and would treat her patience exclusively through dream analysis.. and that tradition.. going all the way up to some of the stuff I find around UoT... I find I'm able to find a decent amount of solid ground at least. But I love that you're out there doing this stuff..
Jonathan! This is great - there are a lot of ideas, particularly in this episode, that are help guiding a novel I'm writing on this spiritual structure, but in relation to man and animals.
@30 minutes. Comes to mind George Gabriel’s (author of Mary Untrodden Portal of God and translator of Ancestral Sin) on the demons who were cast from the possessed to the pigs of Gaddarenes, the fathers narrative was Christ assented to them going to the cliff as a consolation, because they prayed for release.
It would be an odd discussion, but it’d be fascinating to hear these guys - I’m Orthodox so I should say Fathers - talk with Rupert Sheldrake, who’s trying to open up the scientific world to taboo topics that don’t fit strict materialist physics.
@@scottschwartz6282 Ah sorry, they haven't been on officially yet, but they were in the chat for the show "Discussion with Michael Landsman on Church Fathers, Orthodoxy and Catholicism "
There was the spirit that gave the seeress the ability to prophesy. It basically just followed Paul around proclaiming "These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved." until he called it out of her. (Acts 16:27)
I love you guys ! ♥️ This is awesome ! I did want to mention that I am a protestant , I follow Tim Mackey who is also a protestant teacher with the Bible project. He explains this whole conversation as well, in a very like manner!
Jonathan, Excellent video. I enough always miss the real in among the world. Something that recent reminder me of that was first part of the Doyle's "White Company"; when a young cleric leaves the monastery to help his brother at home, he perceives the angels and saints interacting spiritually with the people that travel down the road leaving the monastery. We miss that the imminent over focused on the physical. I just today saw a study of how people focus on some things, like motion before size. So, we see the material before the imminent, but that is a specific element of form over the completeness of the real. I look forward to hearing Father Andrew and have listened to his LOTR podcast with joy; and Father Stephen, of course, since I judge UA-cam presenters by their magnificence of their beards! Of course, he'll have competition from Pastor Paul's new beard look (no criticism of Father Andrew, and his blessed headphones, or your beard implied).
When I was young I did them for that exact reason. I wanted to reach out and grab it for myself by taking something. The Eucharist is the truth psychedelics point to: instead of taking something I am receiving, in a search for wisdom I receive Wisdom Himself.
The arrival of bronze technology and later iron technology would have greatly impacted their respective cultures, especially in the their application towards cultural and warfare applications. If these new technological advances lessened spiritual faith in any way, the keepers of spiritual wisdom would have looked at this new technology as bad, un-pure, or a distraction form the deep spiritual tenets of the day. Perhaps a precursor to our modern love of technology over spiritual virtue. Metallurgy was a deeply guarded secret due to its importance to trade, wealth, and prestige, it makes sense that the keepers of wisdom could villainize these technologies as coming from an unholy place. Based on the modern world we live, I see the wisdom in pumping the breaks on the seduction of new technologies as a distraction from the the spiritual core of beliefs.
A physical example of Pageauian “manifestation”: As a 3-dimensional sphere passes through a 2-dimensional plane, it “manifests” as a dot, becoming a slightly bigger circle, becoming a medium-sized circle, becoming a large circle, becoming a medium sized circle again, becoming a tiny circle, and ultimately becoming a dot like it was at the beginning. Then it disappears. All 2-dimensional inhabitants of this “2 dimensional plane” can only perceive this circle as a thin line. This line starts as a point, slowly grows wider, and then slowly retracts until it blinks out of existence. You see, the 2d inhabitants of this 2d world can only perceive a 3D object (the ball) as a 1D line. Similarly, us 3D humans can only perceive a 3D ball as a 2D circle (even though we know it’s 3D, we can only see one side of it at once. We can’t see all sides of a sphere simultaneously.) The closer the ball gets, it appears like a larger circle. The farther away the ball is, it appears like a smaller circle. Although we can understand higher dimensions (such as the 4th dimension, Time), we are only ever capable of experiencing one POINT in time. It is impossible to simultaneously be in two points of time, you are only ever in the present. But higher beings can and DO do that. If we were able to quote unquote “stop time” and be stationary in a singular point in time, it would then be possible to be in two points in space at the exact same moment in time. It would then be possible to perceive a sphere at all angles ‘simultaneously’ (one point in time). There seems to be a rule that, in any given dimension, it is only possible to PERCIEVE one dimension LESS. Nonetheless, we can UNDERSTAND 1 or two dimensions higher, some people may even understand more than that.
Several people in the comments have mentioned Dr. Michael S. Heiser. So worth looking into his information on the divine council in his book, The Unseen Realm.
I would be interested to hear Jonathan discuss the film 'My Dinner With Andre', specifically Andre Gregory's recounting of his experiences at Findhorn Foundation , with people there encountering strange beings ( if I recall, he mentions "little men" or "gnomes") and various other esoteric experiences.
'Non-canonical', 'Enochian Texts', 'Spirit-communing', 'Kabbalah'.. Great to hear these subjects being discussed from an Orthodox Christian perspective. On the 'Celestial Hierarchies / Builders of the Kosmos' theme - I am reminded of a passage in Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine Volume 1, P. 274 》 ".. ... the whole Kosmos is guided, controlled, and animated by almost endless series of Hierarchies of sentient Beings, each having a mission to perform, and who - whether we give to them one name or another and call them Dhyan Chohans or Angels - are "messengers" in the only sense that they are the agents of Karmic and Cosmic Laws. They vary infinitely in their respective degrees of consciousness and intelligence .. each of these beings either was, or prepares to become, a man, if not in the present then in a past or a coming cycle (Manvantara). They are perfected, when not incipient men, and differ morally from the terrestrial human beings on their higher (less material) spheres, only in that they are devoid of the feeling of personality and of the human emotional nature - two purely earthly characteristics."
And so God considered where to Rest... His Spirit wanted to become manifest in Delhi, But the Father thought, "The Indians are idolaters, I shall come down to Jerusalem..." So the Son said, "Last time I was there was not very welcoming, let us go to Vatican City..." The Holy Spirit replied, "The Vatican? I've never been there before!"
Don’t forget about the Faun that is present in the story of Saint Anthony. Apparently, a wandering desert being that is a wilderness faun from the fairy world, ask St Anthony and the Christians for prayers for his kind. It almost seems like the faun wanted Christ to be aware of the fae and their desire for salvation as well
Drank ayahuasca about a week ago. Only solidified my love for and faith in Jesus. One data point yes, but I would suggest you (Jonathan) reckon with this seriously as most any potential converts within my generation will have had these experiences and will need them to be honestly reckoned with to properly fit them into any potential neo Christian world view you and others are attempting to cultivate
Jonathan the “monsters” are not an issue as they too know and respect the power of Christ as he is of their world and ours both. Your strong faith in Him would give them little to no power over you
Sorry, just had to giggle a little at an ancient Scriptural concept being called ‘neo’ anything. Based on my understanding as preached by the Holy Fathers, using hallucinogens to achieve higher states of consciousness is simply a cop-out or short cut taken in lieu of doing the prescribed spiritual work of prayer, fasting and acts of mercy to achieve that state. And by taking this shortcut and convincing yourself you’re spiritually prepared (which you never are) aren’t you exposing your soul to real spiritual dangers?
This advice was given to ascetics in the desert. 99% of people will never reach that level of spiritual strength and awareness. Psychedelics are a tool -- a technology to explore the non material world and to understand yourself better. As with any tool, it can be used improperly. But the now substantial amount of studies on psychedelics show real capability for healing, growth and meaning. God created the world and it was good. Fear is not of God. Maybe you need to be less afraid just because you lack understanding.
Have you listened to Mike Heiser PhD He has a lot of material on a peer reviewed level on the Divine councel, gods, etc. He has a lot on UA-cam you might enjoy.
Jesus said believers in him are priests. We overcome darkness with his light. Not a perfume. Praise is a sweet smell to him. Drive out darkness by praise.
@@TimeLord1987 He mighty be antireligious however his atheist icons did not create enough imagery for him to use. So he needs to use christian and other symbolism to add depth to his work. How ironic.
the trailer seems to imply a clash between goddess, earth, maternal spirituality and logocentric masculine.. interesting that the AI stands for the former.. that brings to mind some recent theory like The Xenofeminist Manifesto..
@@mostlydead3261 great analysis...I am on 9th episode and man thry really let their imagination go. In a weird way. And Ridley's obsession with posthumanism really blooms. It's a car crash that I can't stop watching 😂
As one grows spiritual these movies become obsolete. It's more rewarding to read books on the saints than to let this poison infiltrate your mind. My tv never gets turned on. Rubbish in equals rubbish out.
I've had some experiences that might be demonic. Poltergeist situations and sleep paralysis. half awake dreams with tall shadowy figures and dog like creatures either standing by the door or breathing in my ear. Saying the Jesus prayer broke the paralysis on the third saying last time. Maybe these are just dreams.
Chuck Missler, Dr. Michael Heiser, Derek and Sharon Gilbert and Nelson Walters have all been speaking and writing books about this subject for years! Although they are protestants, and the impression I get from this video is that as such they couldn't possibly know anything. On the off chance that anyone is interested, the Gilberts have a program called, "Unraveling Revelation," it goes into a lot more detail about the specific entities the Bible names, as well as the other books that are referenced in Revelation. They also have a podcast at Gilbert House Fellowship, that goes verse by verse through the Bible and chronologically through the books...an interesting way to study The Word! If we're all saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, aren't we all in the same family and shouldn't we care for one another, work together and share information? The devil is coming for us all...
Perhaps ~15 foot tall is the ~max height that a person with say ~20/20 vision can clearly see upwards in their peripheral vision (i.e. as they're standing and looking/staring forward)? If so, then perhaps that could explain why so many think the angelic being is that tall.
Anyone watching would probably enjoy 'The Naked Bible Podcast' Michael S Heiser has a similar aim in his teachings. Looking at the Bible in it's correct context.
Is there a book out there with the Orthodox interpretation of basic Christian ideas and words, kind of like a study companion or thesaurus if you will, to help wrap our western brains around eastern interpretations and understanding?
![Lord of Spirits - A Land of Giants [Ep. 7]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjqchu-XUXE/mqdefault.jpg)
"If you engage in immorality, you are entering into communion with demons."
- Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick.
Based
Yes.
circular definition.
what is immorality?
Based Father.
@@notloki3377 it's not a definition
I am concerned for Fr. Andrew's headphones as they seem to be passing in and out of the seen and unseen realms.
Don't worry. They're blessed headphones.
Lol🤣
😂
Hahaha, love this humor ;p
...the realms of his fuzzy beard?🎉
The brilliant discussion going on at 39:00 reminds me of the phrase “greatest trick the devil played was convincing the world he’s not real.”
Also convincing people you won’t die.
he was on stage at the grammys lmao
A person from Egypt once told me that if a person, a muslim is posseased in a severe way, the imam even used to Call for a koptic Priest.
Everytime Johnathan puts a video put
"No THIS is my favorite"
I came to this podcast through Jordan Peterson. It is very enlightening and inspiring.. Thank you.
Same here!
Reminds me of Dr. Heiser’s works, God bless him…rest in peace.
Loving the shoutout to the Silmarillion. If you read the creation story in the opening chapters the analogy to the origin of Sin from Pride is crazy! Especially if you’re a musician, and if you’ve witnessed how sharing in the creation of music can so easily devolve into an ego battle. Peace!! ✌️😎💜
I believe most of us are patiently awaiting your analysis of these cosmic intelligences.
yeah Ive been awaiting him to go into detail about the “intelligences”.. I think I have an idea of what he means, but I’d like a full description
He’s bringing on Ken Wilber and they’re going to talk about Integral Jesus.
Thank you for this work introducing father Andrew’s Amon Sul podcast. I think what you guys are doing is so great! At first I didn’t know what to make of you, now I wait for your new videos with no small amount of anticipation.
This was a really good watch! Would be lovely to have more discussions with Fr. Andrew and Fr. Stephen!
Fr. Andrew: "Father Stephen is a comic book lover as well"
Fr. Stephen: *casually sips from his Flash mug*
Aliens are the materialists’ fairies.
Aliens are demons.
👍🏼
Aliens are kinds of daimons. Elves and fairies are also daimons - for certain peoples, in certain places , at certain times, depending on their collective spiritual zeitgeist, and the predisposition of certain individuals to see them, while many others did not. In our own collective moment, living as we've been in a society of relentless untruthfulness, and the levels of anxiety that modernity has created in us, many have become susceptible to seeing the kinds of daimons that are in accord with our spiritual and existential condition - namely, the aliens that appeared to some of the vulnerable.
@@PetrusSolus, yes, in many stories about fairies I have came across from Ireland and even leprechauns they tend to be mischievous beings. This is the same with aliens, how you have people experiencing this psychedelic state were they are being tortured by these disturbing looking beings.
Even gnomes from Scandinavian tradition consist of the mischievous being that you must please so it wont destroy your home.
@@aarhermano499 Yes, but more can be said, which is that over time, visions of negative beings on the part of experiencers changed to positive perceptions over time, since the original beings were "colored" by the hidden material in the subconscious that was projected onto them. The effective processing of one's karma should eventually change one's perception of reality, no? Same would apply to the experience of hell. Certain people with spiritual limitations will experience their afterlife state as hellish, because the intensity of the light is too great for them, while those who've cultivated themselves spiritually to higher spiritual levels will experience bliss instead.
Some people from a sect approached a priest I knew - they didn't recognize him from behind, and asked: "Do you want to talk about God?" He turned around and said: "I am an Orthodox priest, and - yes, I would love to talk about God." They immediately disappeared after that :)
Dr. Michael Heiser needs to be in on these talks.
Yeah he needs to get involved
These guys were doing this before Heiser.
@@barry.anderberg he is reinventing the wheel, but his scholarship is amazing.
@@barry.anderberg ??? Doing what, talking about spiritual beings? None of them look any older then Heiser and he was reading commentaries in high school on "this stuff" so...
Yes, Dr. Heiser would be an excellent addition to this discussion, also Tim Mackie.
Regarding psychedelics and "what the monster has to teach you," I think the person you were talking to is misunderstanding this.
Not recommending psychedelic use, but in my experience, the monster doesn't _teach_ you anything, the _encounter_ with the monster teaches you things. It's not "what does this being have to teach me," but rather, "what would I have to be in order to vanquish this and make it go away?"
It's sort of like a bronze serpent of Moses scenario.
Was thinking exactly this, based on my experience.. Well put..
I took psychedelics once and heard a monster growling over my shoulder. I decided not to even turn around and look. Seemed like a bad idea.
@@Pilgrim22 I did a series of trips on dmt.. It was a period long gone but had some very dark experiences.. But during one trip everything fell in place and I saw how this darkness could only do something if I was open to it, maybe through fear but anyway, after that time, whenever things became dark I would just stare at it, trusting that all would be well and thus not afraid at all and it would disappear immediately.. I really don't know at what level to interpret all of the experiences so I am not assuming anything about it.. But that lesson has come back throughout my life many times and in part showed me the way back to Christ.. Trusting Him being the way to go to not be afraid and let the dark in..
@@petrrtep7657 Yeah psychedelics are intense. Lots of strange things can happen to us while in that state so I understand everyones hesitation on the topic. I do also think that they can be a vehicle for deception depending on the spiritual state of the individual. My take away from my experiences is to stay focused on God at all times lest the monster takes our attention... because they are out there in many forms. Now that I have found Christ and the true church I am no longer interested in these substances.
Part of the problem might be that the person Jonathan talks about (JBP?) is still struggling with some degree of a materialist mindset. Whenever I've taken psychedelics in the past (mushrooms, LSD), I've encountered material things on a much more spiritual level, asking the kinds of questions that Matthieu talks about in his book: What is the meaning of this? What truth does it embody? It wasn't until listening to JBP and the Pageaus that I began to be able to put this into words. Some people do have legitimately bad experiences though, which is why setting/mindset have been so important in psychedelic culture. I'd like for Jonathan to understand the psychedelic experience, but, in a way, he kind of understands it already.
@15:00 Describing the spiritual reality as a overlapping transparency reminds me of Narnia, where Aslan's Kingdom _is_ Narnia, but infinitely bigger and more full, overlaying the mundane Narnia the characters had known.
So glad you guys addressed psychedelics. I warn my clients against them for the same reason. Are they having "spiritual" experiences? Sure. But not godly ones . . . at least generally; I've heard some stories of God intervening by grace.
I love Jonathan with all of my heart, but he is speaking from a place of ignorance. And for someone who spends so much time making fun of people who are stuck in a literal or materialistic mindset, he is not making a serious effort to understand the way that psychedelics interact with our spiritual experiences.
I've been a Christian since I was very young. My first interactions with them cured 30 years of suicidal depression. I love God and His world more directly. Maybe because I was a scientist/ materialist and got "de-materialized" and have a proper worldview just from the experience. But the natural "spirit" of the "place" was so loving, forgiving, and placed my grieving hand in God's. This is why I am now interested in Orthodoxy.
@@jesh879 agreed. It is rather surprising how courageous he is, in general. But when it comes to this subject, he backs out and relies on a kind of ignorance feigned as faith. Be might be scared, to be honest. At least he rightfully knows how dangerous they can be. Jordan Peterson has a good talk with Dennis McKenna on the use of them (Dennis is the brother of Terence McKenna). There are also some clips on YT where Jordan talks about it with Pageau.
However, this video encapsulates best what Pageau's pov is on this subject. I've looked around to see if his opinion has changed but it is rather constant. It is a really important subject, especially in relationship to Christianity and the Hellenic world.
There is a crazy book called Sacred Mushroom on the Cross. I do not endorse it, but it is very thought provoking. Hope Johnathan would consider these points of views more often and more seriously. It is as "fringe" as it gets. His hermeneutics relies on faith and reading safely in his home, but I don't think he'll ever go into the woods alone...
I love the man, but this might be his one shortcoming as a truth seeker.
One big question is if what one sees on psychedelics is a manifestations of one's self, like projection of some sort, of if there are real external entities. Johnathan seems to implicitly subscribe to the latter, which is totally fair and convincing. At the same time, not all such entities may be malevolent.
If it is a projection of oneself in some way, I think it is very similar to the Guardian at the Threshold. Rudolf Steiner's How to Know Higher World's gives a great account in what he Guardian is. This might explain while people grow so much after having trips because they were able to pass the threshold and overcome the guardian. This would also explain why some trips may also be so bad for people because they cannot face themselves when compelled to.
I am of the opinion that it is both a projection of one's self and an interaction with other entities. The Self and the Other.
@@SokofeatherEven as an Anti Augustinian protestant, I have learned so much from Eastern Orthodoxy. How one understands "conceived by the Holy Spirit" is of massive importance. It one understands like most protestants and Augustine in his blasphemous slander that the Holy Spirit "planted immaculate sperm" in Mary to create a "hybrid Jesus" Justin Martyr says you "misunderstand what we say" Jesus isn't a Nephelim son of the Holy Spirit. He was generated/Begotten before all ages of the substance of His Father alone, and conceived in time of the substance of His mother alone. The incarnation is about saving the Adamic Spermatos "flesh" not replacing it with a super spirit-human flesh after the manner of unlawful procreation. As a former augustinian protestant preacher and missionary I can tell you Rome and her daughter cults are man flesh hating haunts of unclean spirits. I was inhabited by a Nephelim "demon" before the real Jesus exercised the demon I was told was the Holy Spirit. Prelest is a very real spiritual illness and most western heresy can be traced to the accursed Augustine whom some Eastern Orthodox call "Disgustin Augustin" and not a Saint. Penal death and penal substitution can be found in Augustine as well as many other heresy that are completely unorthodox but are "orthodox" by today's standards. The True Light shines brighter through what I call "Empirical Orthodoxy" than it does through western traditions. May GOD save us through His Christ!
Amazing information on my favorite research subjects! God bless all three of you greatly! I need to find an Orthodox church near me, because I need to learn more of their theology. I get grief from protestants for reading noncannonical books, and I see them as an important tool in trying to understand the big picture.
Did you find a church, Lee?
I haven't found one anywhere near me that I would attend but it is worth travelling for. Any tips from South England peeps?
I have only ever encountered three types of embodied spirits: creatures with material bodies, inimical demons/eldritch horrors with subtle bodies, and neutral/ambivalent beings with subtle bodies who don't really care all that much. The Church did not seem like a place I belonged, but then I heard about St. Christopher and started to think maybe. Still figuring out how/where I fit into this whole thing.
How goes the journey?
@@sempelpang the quest for truth continues because I did not find it in Eastern Orthodoxy. I suspect that all religions will have the same issues with asserting falsehoods as truth.
@@k98killer I think I might know what you mean. For what it's worth, I think if you are looking for an accurate set of beliefs or assertions about reality, as information presented by religions or spiritual traditions, you will never find it. I've searched for many years as well and have been disappointed. Traditional Christian doctrine lacks many aspects of spiritual realities that I think are real. No one tradition will ever be able to describe our magnificently complex and vast seen and unseen worlds. But I've found the only "truth" that actually matters is walking the path of Christ. It's not found in information - can never be expressed in words or ideas, actually - but in voluntarily sacrificing myself, dying to myself, and thus participating in the cosmic reality of Christ's resurrection. It's the experience itself. I don't understand it, it's not for the faint of heart, and it's not as fun as a lot of the new age/ancient mystery religion/law of attraction stuff I was into for many years, but it's the only thing that actually works. Whatever your thoughts are about Eastern Orthodoxy, or any set of beliefs for that matter, know that joining with Christ in his self-denial, suffering, service, and total lack of anxiety about the future will lead to your becoming more human, and ultimately to union with God.
@@daughj I do not see how adopting any dogmas or rituals concerning Jesus of Nazareth is necessary for living those values.
Thanks
When they were discussing how we shouldn't not get wisdom from monsters I recalled JBP mentioning quote by Jung "Beware of unearned wisdom". Seems to fit the story here.
But then I remembered part of C.S. Lewis "Why am I not a pacifist" lecture. There he explains how one builds knowledge/understanding of truth by:
1) Input - facts observed + facts "learned", from others (and in fact for the most part, one uses the 2nd one)
2) some obvious base deductions
3) A -> B -> C chain of reasoning
Similar on a moral plain with moral truths.
But big chunk of point 1, Input comes from others, through authority. We believe others - family, friends, media, internet. Believing authority is a kind of "unearned wisdom". And we are curious creations that have different levels of knowing - we might know that the stove is hot, but when we burn ourselves - Then boy do we know it. XD For days and weeks after we "know" ;).
But with current pretty much non-existence of real authority - I'm totally not surprised by flat earthers on one side, and fake news on the other.
And that's a curious riddle - as authority is good, and necessary, but we're likely to fail using it - what then ?
I came up with some source of Truth - being it the Word of God - Bible or Christ, and authorities being more believable, the more they point to the source. It feels right, but it doesn't sound right XD.
For me this acknowledgement of the spiritual dimension is a pretty big deal. Don’t usually but I’m relistening. Thank you!!
I hope you've listened to the Lord of Spirits podcast. It's been tremendous for me.
Great content as always!
Long past due topic that needs to be discussed. Late to the party but glad y’all came.
I just learned today that the INAH (National Institute of History and Anthropology) here in Mexico, which is a very important institution for the study of prehispanic Mexican history, released a book of "silenced" ghost stories narrated by serious academics and researchers of the institute during field studies over archaeological sites. It blew my mind and I had to return here to see what Frs. Stephen and Andrew and Jonathan had to tell about it. It´s incredible how the Symbolic World is breaking loose.
Ahhh I found out about that book too! It’s really interesting. It confirmed my intuitions about the prehispanic world and now having listened to the Lord of Spirits podcast it all makes sense. And it is quite common that people here in Mexico idolize the ancient prehispanic cultures and want to go back to those forms of idolatry because “they were more pure” and “are our true identity as Mexicans” without really knowing what that implies. It is no coincidence that we have our own manifestation of the Virgin Mary who takes the prehispanic cultures, transforms them, and points them towards God. With the proper lens our national history makes sense and it becomes clear that we are part of a larger story.
@@sunnysideoop278 Yes! It makes tons of sense. Great to hear from a fellow Mexican Jonathan Pageau enjoyer, I'm not alone! There's a lot of insght waiting for us if we study this channel.
What a great episode, thank you!
Always enjoyed the Tolkien podcast with Fr Andrew. Will check out the Lord of Spirits one now. In Islamic tradition isn’t Satan a jinn that rebels because he’s made of like fire and air and thinks Adam being made of earth is lesser than him and won’t be subject to Adam in hierarchy? Anyone remember if the watchers were Jinns as well in that story? I know they have a similar story. I agree with Jonathan the jinns are interesting even though I ascribe exclusively to the 2nd temple/Christian worldview. Agree with another commenter, Dr. Mike Heiser talks about this quite a bit in his books and lectures. Thanks guys, God bless.
Thanks again Jonathan, great content as always!
good show. very important topic not often discussed, sadly. so, yeah, more please.
Great chat, the conversation was more open-minded than I had expected, the good humour was a bonus. Thumbs up!
One word of caution on these things. From experience, it's very easy for a functional materialist to get very enamoured with the spectacular and sensational. These things are a very real reality, but the experience thereof is not something to seek in itself, tempting as that may be. It should be a natural part of faithfully seeking the kingdom of God and his righteousness.
This. is. so. good. Thanks JP!
I'm late to this video, (and early in) but I'm also a fan of Paula Fredriksen who has done I think an invaluable service by bringing the polytheistic ancient world back to life so when we read "...every knee shall bend" we know it is not simply referring to the material world. I also don't believe you can read something like Mark's gospel (or Revelation) without an acceptance that God is not the only force at work in the world. I look forward to the rest of this conversation.
Ha! Jonathan mentioned my post in the group about the masks. That’s my 15 minutes of fame.
I love you guys. I have been listening to Michael Heiser for a long time now and he has similar content.
Wow I need to hear more about what Fr Stephen de Young has to say
Great discussion, thankyou.
Re: Enoch. I think it fell out of favour as a consequence of the battle between the Church and the Manichaean heresy. The Enochian literature was heavily exploited by the Manicheans in their gnostic mythos. Augustine, being a former member of the sect, would thus have reason to reject it. Manichaeism was the main rival to Christianity during late antiquity.
the texts like Enoch vere an attempt to preserve pagan wisdom by hiding it in the chrisrian language.. the pseudo-dionysus texts are that.. some managed to outsmart the church censorship, some didn't.. now we are free to see what they really say..
@@mostlydead3261 that's not remotely true.
The resistance really comes down to modern teachings that claim a form of belief while rejecting the power of the spiritual battle. The watered down, uselessness of modern teaching and complete lack of transparency is the root cause of the human condition.
If humanity took seriously the spiritual aspects of the universe we live in, if we fully understood our existence as being on multiple planes simultaneously, then literalism would not limit our responses or the skills we are developing - personally or collectively.
For the most part, humanity is hopelessly lost in psychic illusions, while totally ignorant of and vulnerable to our real enemies. We are consistently set up to fight each other, wasting ourselves and our powers.
There is a consistency between ancient and modern civilizations as being dangerously vulnerable to confusion of the human role and capacity as a specie. Without a proper framework to set ourselves in, we are at the mercy of those with greater knowledge and malicious intent toward us. That’s as real as it gets.
This material is the #AnswerToJung
This podcast series has been fantastic so far!
Great podcast. (With The School of Athens too.) Thank you.
Wonderful crossover!
I love these two. Their podcast is awesome
Re "If you see a ghost of a family member, assume it's a demon..." There was an interesting episode of Star Trek Voyager ("Coda") which demonstrates that point.
Ooo, I don’t remember that one. Will have to look it up. Voyager was my fav Star Trek series…until Discovery kicked its ass.
Awesome podcast 👍
Thank you
I thought this talk was SO great, and got me really excited about there podcast.. and it is great..
The only trouble I run into is.. as someone who's largely ignorant of this Orthodox tradition.. there's a lot of places where it can be challenging to critically engage with.. and maintain sorta epistemological integrity.. where truth-e-ness claims are often made based on the relationship to the authority of the church / tradition and it's like "yeah, but I'm totally ignorant of this.. so I'm not really in a place where I can make judgements about how I should regard that authority."
The best I've been able to do is to try and seek out other perspectives on these kinds of things.. which isn't super easy for me to find.. and see if that reveals anything to me.
The best I've been able to do on this is Marie-Louise von Franz.. who was a close collaborator with Jung and would treat her patience exclusively through dream analysis.. and that tradition.. going all the way up to some of the stuff I find around UoT... I find I'm able to find a decent amount of solid ground at least.
But I love that you're out there doing this stuff..
Press like.
This was brilliant guys! - ;)
This was tremendously insightful. Thank you very much.
fascinating thanks Jonathan!
I hope you do a round 2 with both priests... this was excellent! Their Podcast is also very educational.
Jonathan! This is great - there are a lot of ideas, particularly in this episode, that are help guiding a novel I'm writing on this spiritual structure, but in relation to man and animals.
This was an interesting conversation
Lewis also did it even more so in That Hideous Strength.
In the ancient Norse mythology, Thor actually does get drunk on beer and mead. The gods were not immune to intoxication.
But Thor never has a midlife-breakdown, right? And I think they evenly do not mention any obesity issues.
@30 minutes.
Comes to mind George Gabriel’s (author of Mary Untrodden Portal of God and translator of Ancestral Sin) on the demons who were cast from the possessed to the pigs of Gaddarenes, the fathers narrative was Christ assented to them going to the cliff as a consolation, because they prayed for release.
Absolutely fantastic. One of your best podcasts.
It would be an odd discussion, but it’d be fascinating to hear these guys - I’m Orthodox so I should say Fathers - talk with Rupert Sheldrake, who’s trying to open up the scientific world to taboo topics that don’t fit strict materialist physics.
I’d pay to hear that conversation.
Sheldrake?! Heck yes I'd love to see him work with Orthodox teachers.
Saw these guys on Reason and Theology. Looking forward to more of them here and elsewhere.
Where can I find this appearance? My Search did not turn up.
@@scottschwartz6282 Ah sorry, they haven't been on officially yet, but they were in the chat for the show "Discussion with Michael Landsman on Church Fathers, Orthodoxy and Catholicism
"
There was the spirit that gave the seeress the ability to prophesy. It basically just followed Paul around proclaiming "These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved." until he called it out of her. (Acts 16:27)
I love you guys ! ♥️ This is awesome ! I did want to mention that I am a protestant , I follow Tim Mackey who is also a protestant teacher with the Bible project. He explains this whole conversation as well, in a very like manner!
I forgot to comment. This was awesome.
Jonathan, Excellent video. I enough always miss the real in among the world. Something that recent reminder me of that was first part of the Doyle's "White Company"; when a young cleric leaves the monastery to help his brother at home, he perceives the angels and saints interacting spiritually with the people that travel down the road leaving the monastery. We miss that the imminent over focused on the physical. I just today saw a study of how people focus on some things, like motion before size. So, we see the material before the imminent, but that is a specific element of form over the completeness of the real.
I look forward to hearing Father Andrew and have listened to his LOTR podcast with joy; and Father Stephen, of course, since I judge UA-cam presenters by their magnificence of their beards! Of course, he'll have competition from Pastor Paul's new beard look (no criticism of Father Andrew, and his blessed headphones, or your beard implied).
Thanks!
Very, very insightful and erudite. Thank you all!
You all should try and add Michael Heiser to your circle. Great discussion to listen to. Thank you.
Wonderful video! Congrats!!!
Awsome!!
Some people don’t need psychedelics because they have wisdom. People using them, that’s what they’re trying to achieve.
When I was young I did them for that exact reason. I wanted to reach out and grab it for myself by taking something. The Eucharist is the truth psychedelics point to: instead of taking something I am receiving, in a search for wisdom I receive Wisdom Himself.
The arrival of bronze technology and later iron technology would have greatly impacted their respective cultures, especially in the their application towards cultural and warfare applications. If these new technological advances lessened spiritual faith in any way, the keepers of spiritual wisdom would have looked at this new technology as bad, un-pure, or a distraction form the deep spiritual tenets of the day. Perhaps a precursor to our modern love of technology over spiritual virtue. Metallurgy was a deeply guarded secret due to its importance to trade, wealth, and prestige, it makes sense that the keepers of wisdom could villainize these technologies as coming from an unholy place. Based on the modern world we live, I see the wisdom in pumping the breaks on the seduction of new technologies as a distraction from the the spiritual core of beliefs.
This went from biblical talk to some weird form of world building. Lets keep it on the path guys come on.
Interesting conversation 🤔
A physical example of Pageauian “manifestation”:
As a 3-dimensional sphere passes through a 2-dimensional plane, it “manifests” as a dot, becoming a slightly bigger circle, becoming a medium-sized circle, becoming a large circle, becoming a medium sized circle again, becoming a tiny circle, and ultimately becoming a dot like it was at the beginning. Then it disappears. All 2-dimensional inhabitants of this “2 dimensional plane” can only perceive this circle as a thin line. This line starts as a point, slowly grows wider, and then slowly retracts until it blinks out of existence. You see, the 2d inhabitants of this 2d world can only perceive a 3D object (the ball) as a 1D line. Similarly, us 3D humans can only perceive a 3D ball as a 2D circle (even though we know it’s 3D, we can only see one side of it at once. We can’t see all sides of a sphere simultaneously.) The closer the ball gets, it appears like a larger circle. The farther away the ball is, it appears like a smaller circle.
Although we can understand higher dimensions (such as the 4th dimension, Time), we are only ever capable of experiencing one POINT in time. It is impossible to simultaneously be in two points of time, you are only ever in the present. But higher beings can and DO do that. If we were able to quote unquote “stop time” and be stationary in a singular point in time, it would then be possible to be in two points in space at the exact same moment in time. It would then be possible to perceive a sphere at all angles ‘simultaneously’ (one point in time). There seems to be a rule that, in any given dimension, it is only possible to PERCIEVE one dimension LESS. Nonetheless, we can UNDERSTAND 1 or two dimensions higher, some people may even understand more than that.
the atlas of symmetry has an object called the monster. if memory serves it has 63,000,000 dimensions.
Angels and demons are more accurately described as being outside of time, but they are still created beings.
Several people in the comments have mentioned Dr. Michael S. Heiser. So worth looking into his information on the divine council in his book, The Unseen Realm.
I would love to see you guys talk with Dr. Michael Heiser as others have said!
I would be interested to hear Jonathan discuss the film 'My Dinner With Andre', specifically Andre Gregory's recounting of his experiences at Findhorn Foundation , with people there encountering strange beings ( if I recall, he mentions "little men" or "gnomes") and various other esoteric experiences.
'Non-canonical', 'Enochian Texts', 'Spirit-communing', 'Kabbalah'.. Great to hear these subjects being discussed from an Orthodox Christian perspective.
On the 'Celestial Hierarchies / Builders of the Kosmos' theme - I am reminded of a passage in Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine Volume 1, P. 274 》
".. ... the whole Kosmos is guided, controlled, and animated by almost endless series of Hierarchies of sentient Beings, each having a mission to perform, and who - whether we give to them one name or another and call them Dhyan Chohans or Angels - are "messengers" in the only sense that they are the agents of Karmic and Cosmic Laws. They vary infinitely in their respective degrees of consciousness and intelligence .. each of these beings either was, or prepares to become, a man, if not in the present then in a past or a coming cycle (Manvantara). They are perfected, when not incipient men, and differ morally from the terrestrial human beings on their higher (less material) spheres, only in that they are devoid of the feeling of personality and of the human emotional nature - two purely earthly characteristics."
It is typical of sects to mix truth with lies. You have simply mixed patristic tradition with your ravings.
Wonderful work!
Grant Morrison is one of my favorite comic book writers of all time. His views on time and magick are incredibly interesting
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of beards.
And so God considered where to Rest...
His Spirit wanted to become manifest in Delhi,
But the Father thought, "The Indians are idolaters, I shall come down to Jerusalem..."
So the Son said, "Last time I was there was not very welcoming, let us go to Vatican City..."
The Holy Spirit replied, "The Vatican? I've never been there before!"
Is Jonathan the Holy Spirit or son
No
You should do an interview with Michael Heiser!
I 've been waiting a long time for you to mention Guenon
Another author who's been trying to solve the same problem in the hierarchy of spirits, other than Lewis and Tolkien, is Gene Wolfe
Don’t forget about the Faun that is present in the story of Saint Anthony.
Apparently, a wandering desert being that is a wilderness faun from the fairy world, ask St Anthony and the Christians for prayers for his kind. It almost seems like the faun wanted Christ to be aware of the fae and their desire for salvation as well
I'd love to here any of you deep dive into Shintoism
What is father Andrew mentioning at 26:26 > "I am totally fascinated by ..... "
Panpsychism?
Drank ayahuasca about a week ago. Only solidified my love for and faith in Jesus.
One data point yes, but I would suggest you (Jonathan) reckon with this seriously as most any potential converts within my generation will have had these experiences and will need them to be honestly reckoned with to properly fit them into any potential neo Christian world view you and others are attempting to cultivate
Jonathan the “monsters” are not an issue as they too know and respect the power of Christ as he is of their world and ours both. Your strong faith in Him would give them little to no power over you
ua-cam.com/video/iXI6B4gfxLg/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/CS5Asc29oaY/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/HEnr8pVigxg/v-deo.html
Sorry, just had to giggle a little at an ancient Scriptural concept being called ‘neo’ anything. Based on my understanding as preached by the Holy Fathers, using hallucinogens to achieve higher states of consciousness is simply a cop-out or short cut taken in lieu of doing the prescribed spiritual work of prayer, fasting and acts of mercy to achieve that state. And by taking this shortcut and convincing yourself you’re spiritually prepared (which you never are) aren’t you exposing your soul to real spiritual dangers?
This advice was given to ascetics in the desert. 99% of people will never reach that level of spiritual strength and awareness. Psychedelics are a tool -- a technology to explore the non material world and to understand yourself better. As with any tool, it can be used improperly. But the now substantial amount of studies on psychedelics show real capability for healing, growth and meaning. God created the world and it was good. Fear is not of God. Maybe you need to be less afraid just because you lack understanding.
Have you listened to Mike Heiser PhD
He has a lot of material on a peer reviewed level on the Divine councel, gods, etc.
He has a lot on UA-cam you might enjoy.
I'm a big Heiser fan and also an Orthodox Christian. I've always felt he's reinventing the wheel so go speak; I too wish he'd take the Ortho-pill
Jesus said believers in him are priests. We overcome darkness with his light. Not a perfume. Praise is a sweet smell to him. Drive out darkness by praise.
Jonathan can you do Raised By Wolves please? It is teeming with symbolism.
Wasn't Scott always very anti-religious, almost a New Atheist type? The trailer for that definitely seemed to have that message.
@@TimeLord1987 He mighty be antireligious however his atheist icons did not create enough imagery for him to use. So he needs to use christian and other symbolism to add depth to his work. How ironic.
the trailer seems to imply a clash between goddess, earth, maternal spirituality and logocentric masculine.. interesting that the AI stands for the former.. that brings to mind some recent theory like The Xenofeminist Manifesto..
@@mostlydead3261 great analysis...I am on 9th episode and man thry really let their imagination go. In a weird way. And Ridley's obsession with posthumanism really blooms. It's a car crash that I can't stop watching 😂
As one grows spiritual these movies become obsolete. It's more rewarding to read books on the saints than to let this poison infiltrate your mind. My tv never gets turned on. Rubbish in equals rubbish out.
It would be a good conversation with Ben Greenfield on plant medicine.
Lisa’s going to have a field day with this on the clips channel.
I've had some experiences that might be demonic. Poltergeist situations and sleep paralysis. half awake dreams with tall shadowy figures and dog like creatures either standing by the door or breathing in my ear. Saying the Jesus prayer broke the paralysis on the third saying last time. Maybe these are just dreams.
@Rhizomio my sincere thanks, God bless.
If by change you see this comment, plz make a video on the symbolism of the New Nolan, Tenet. Thanks!:)
Chuck Missler, Dr. Michael Heiser, Derek and Sharon Gilbert and Nelson Walters have all been speaking and writing books about this subject for years! Although they are protestants, and the impression I get from this video is that as such they couldn't possibly know anything.
On the off chance that anyone is interested, the Gilberts have a program called, "Unraveling Revelation," it goes into a lot more detail about the specific entities the Bible names, as well as the other books that are referenced in Revelation. They also have a podcast at Gilbert House Fellowship, that goes verse by verse through the Bible and chronologically through the books...an interesting way to study The Word!
If we're all saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, aren't we all in the same family and shouldn't we care for one another, work together and share information? The devil is coming for us all...
Fr. Stephen has a bible study on Ancient Faith Radio called The Whole Counsel of God. 🤯
Perhaps ~15 foot tall is the ~max height that a person with say ~20/20 vision can clearly see upwards in their peripheral vision (i.e. as they're standing and looking/staring forward)? If so, then perhaps that could explain why so many think the angelic being is that tall.
so excited for this series, symbolic world has been the perfect training course for what these podcasts will mean
Anyone watching would probably enjoy 'The Naked Bible Podcast' Michael S Heiser has a similar aim in his teachings. Looking at the Bible in it's correct context.
Is there a book out there with the Orthodox interpretation of basic Christian ideas and words, kind of like a study companion or thesaurus if you will, to help wrap our western brains around eastern interpretations and understanding?
Wish Terence McKenna was here for this chat. They should go on Rogan.