Can You Get an Immersive Home Theater Experience WITHOUT a Subwoofer?
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- Опубліковано 1 тра 2023
- Can You Get an Immersive Home Theater Experience WITHOUT a Subwoofer?
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(3) JTR Noesis 212HTR - bit.ly/JTR_Noesis_212HTR
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The first system I ever heard that got me into home theater was a 5.1 system in an apartment running Definitive Technology LCR without additional sub(s). I still remember how clean and tight the bass sounded especially when listening to music. You won't get the same LFE performance as a dedicated sub, but not everybody has the room or the WAF for a 15"+ sub in their living room.
I agree I think these definitely have a great application for a lot of living room setups.
I like the concept of having fewer speakers especially for the living room. I wonder if we will see more systems dedicated to the three-speaker setup? DefTech looks to be on the leading edge of that idea.
Yeah, there aren’t many other brands that utilize active offers in their towers so they can have their own niche. They are carving out.
10:17 thank goodness Michael comes to his senses and says he recommends pairing this system with subwoofers for the best possible performance 😅😂
I don’t care how larger towers are, I have always been an advocate for adding a Subwoofer whether it’s 2 channel or for home theater.
The older BP series was able to be driven "full range" with the crossover dumping out the lower frequencies to the amp. But the sub was more of a driver than a woofer. You had the option of using rca line in, lfe, or line level. Pairing them with a larger 12 or 15 inch amplified woofer was great!
I got the BP 9040 towers and the CS 9040. Best speakers I’ve ever owned. I absolutely love them.
I just hear them in San Antonio, Tx in Best Buy Magnolia the other day, and they sound fantastic
love my Definitive Technology setup...X3800H, Marantz MS7055, BP9040, CS9040, SR9080, monitors 800's FH, Klipsch R-41SA RH ... 2x Spl-120, 2x R-12SWi.... 5.4.4 layout
Awesome system you have there Josh
@@Youthman live in a condo, so my neighbors really love it. hahaha..
I bet haha
Sure you can. I have Cerwin Vega AT-15’s and they have larger woofers and go lower than a lot of subs!
Great content as always! Also wanted to check whats the general rule of thumb for speaker Sensitivity/Watts per room size, does a 200W LCR suffice for a 25ft room? Or a 30ft room?
I've heard the BP9080 speakers in a home theater without additional subwoofers, and they can hang with the best of 'em. The only negative I would say is the lack of subwoofer placement options. If your subwoofers sound great up front, these speakers will rock the house down. If not, placing additional subs around the room is necessary to fill in the sometimes large gaps in low-end thump in some rooms. I've also noticed that the newer Deftech stuff doesn't go as low as the older models, and use a weaker amp. I wonder how the DN80/70 would directly compare to the BP9080/60, as the latter goes into the mid-upper teens for bass. I believe the newer series' are mid-low 20's. They're still getting fantastic reviews, and no one has mentioned any detriment to sound quality at all.
They are not as good as the older models. Do not buy!
Great looking designs! Subs and towers look great together!
I do wish you could actually see some of the design though. Much of it is hidden by the acoustically transparent fabric,
you mean if they were designed as a flush surface without the sock?
The only part of the speaker cabinet that can be seen is the top.
@Youthman .. I've seen them up close.. and undressed.. I've been to multiple shows all year. Im aware of their design quite well - Owned the BP2000 series way back. I know how to pull down stockings.. (Maybe others dont know that about these designs)
🙏🙏😇😇
I really like them. Wish they could have different colour socks tho.
Hi Michael - quick questions on your thoughts on these:
- how'd the speakers sound on music?
- did you try them out with the bipolar reduction switch? How'd they sound? seems like more setups seem to prefer the reduction switch enabled.
- how was the quality of the bass on the frequencies it could handle?
- what crossover setting did you use on the center speaker with the smaller drivers? How was the dialog articulation on this? And did you feel it offered a wide enough angle to cover the whole couch?
- any thoughts on the tweeter these speakers were using and the highs they were producing?
Looking forward to your x4800h review.
In the late 90s Bose made a pair of towers with built in powered bass drivers, that were not bad at all. They were one of the first companies to try it.
Not bad? I want a speaker that is more than just not bad. 😉
Hey Michael hello from Costa Rica 🇨🇷 Quick question I have a sony str-dh790 and cheap subw, looking for update the receiver first with Denon X2700h what do you think?
Would love to hear your meanings on headphones for movies maybe som suggestion of different headphones, I use the airpods max with an apple tv 4k but got some problems with dolby atmos content (volume jumping up and down randomly) thanks for great content keep up the great work😃
for a big soundstage ( what is what u want for a movie expierience ) u want an open back headphone. But with that you lose some base and also other people in the room can hear your content. It will not be loud for them but in a normal room. They can hear what u hear as well. Just alot more quiet. DT1990 or DT990 from beyerdynamics are good ones.
I have an older DT front stage. Actually, I partially got it because you so strongly recommended a matching LCR. Anyway, I also got it for WAF because my wife wanted to reduce the floor space that was taken. And she was right, there's no space for a sub, so I'm glad I got this setup. It was the only way. But I have an active sub in my center as well as the towers. =)
That’s awesome. What are your thoughts on having a matching LCR?
I don't think I listen critically enough to hear the difference. I'm sure it makes a difference but I normally am just fighting with myself because I want to turn the bass up but I'm terrified to wake up my children. Even so, looking for a matching LCR with subs in the towers ultimately led me here and I have an active 10 in the center and active 18's in the towers. I call that a win. We'll see if I can tell once I run Audessy and the SACD from TD and J&T.
Michael, for future reviews I think it would be beneficial to experiment with things like the tweeter setting (0dB, -6dB) and give your thoughts on both setups. Other than that its a nice review.
Appreciate it. This is the only speaker that I have ever seen with that setting. It wasn’t a night and day difference.
@Youthman understood. I was just thinking, in general, when you come across little features like that, whatever the piece of equipment, it would be beneficial to hear your opinion on that feature just so people have an idea of what to expect. Cheers
You recommended Denon 7.2 AVR-2800H, but some reviewers say that it has limited power for demanding setups. Is this correct?
Youthman when will you do home theater tour of your home theater?
It’s WAY overdue! Definitely on my list
Hey there Youthman. I have 4 Def tech bp 2002s and a center channel clr 2003 I am running them with my pioneer elite vsx-82txs. I just purchased an Adcom powered amp model GFA 6000. My question is what is the best possible way to incorporate the new power amp to hook up to these speakers. Any and all advice is welcome
You would use a single RCA cable to connect Front Left preout on AVR to L RCA input on the Adcom, then speaker cable from L Output on the Adcom to your Front Left speaker.
Repeat for Center, Right, Surround Left and Surround Right.
@Youthman so I would keep my jumpers on and run in full range. Cause right now with just the pioneer avr hooked up I run the from my preouts l,r,c,and rears to the full range in on the Def techs and I run the speakers off the speakeker output to the Def techs. Set to large and subwoofer off. For some reason when I hook the Def techs up to the subwoofer out and lfe in on the speakers I don't get any signal or it's to low of voltage to power them on. So I was wandering if I could run the Def techs and the power amp through the pre outs using a y splitter. For each channel on the pre outs and power my minds and highs on the speakers from the power amp
Google these speakers please as they have highs,mids,lows. You could literally tri wire these I'm thinking but for now I just have the adcom 5 ch power amp.
Let me know your thoughts. I've reached out to Def tech but no one has gotten back to me. And I don't want to blow the built in amp and x over. If you are able to get in touch with Def tech ask them please what they recommend for my unique situation
👍
Hey Michael How's It Going??? I just Wanted To Know What's A Great Multi Channel Power Amplifier To Buy???
I have been more than pleased with my Monolith 11X. They make them in a lot of channel variations. Emotiva, Parasound, Buckeye. Lots of great choices
@@Youthman , Thanks Michael! I've Been Thinking About The Emotiva and The Monolith Big Time
I went with the Monolith 11X over the Emotiva XPA11 as it has a more even distribution of power (200x3 + 100x8) vs (300x3 + 65x8).
I started with Def tech about 12 years ago. I had the procenter 2000 along with 4 1000pro monitors . And a single 12 jbl sub. They sounded faster with movies so clear and loud and. O distortion. I need to stop watching these youth man videos because this hobby is expensive but still love your content.
I have gotten home theater sound without a subwoofer. What I did was set the front speakers to large and turned off the subwoofer output.
Yes, that’s exactly how I had it set up in this video. You just won’t be able to get the deepest lows that you can achieve with a dedicated subwoofer.
Do you think the dm20 could work as an on-wall surround in a vertical position?
Yes the dm20 is designed for this and can be hung horizontally as well as vertically.
Yes it would work fine in a vertical position. You can see the speaker mount on the rear allows you to mount it 4 directions.
Ok cool. Yeah I was thinking that may work better than the dm95 for ear level surrounds since the dm95’s are angled. The dm20 is twice the price though 😕
Hey youthman, I was thinking about this the other day. You have all 4 subs in your front soundstage. Would you get more bass with a sub in every corner of the room instead of all 4 up front?
It’s very possible. I just do not have the space to do that which is why they are behind the screen. Still sounds incredible to me.
@@Youthman it would be an interesting comparison. The RS1 is a pretty compact box. The amps per sub are bigger too. I wonder if jtr would let you do that comparison
The only difference between the RS1 and the RS2’s is 3 dB due to the additional woofer. It’s not about output. It would only be used to provide a flatter frequency. Response across multiple positions. My room is flat down to 5 Hz in my primary listening position.
@@Youthman how do you measure something that low? Iam using the umik 2 because its a little bit bigger then the umik 1, so can capture more of the soundwave. But i dont trust it below 40hz. I take it as an indicator but not as absolute truth. Because ive gotten quite a few wonky measurements from it.
@@Youthman 5 Hz is ridiculous 😂
You wont experience anywhere near the same level of immersion without GOOD subs like PSA, JTR Rhytmik
They definitely take movie watching to a whole new level
Hi youthman , I was looking for some help with running two subs , I have the sony str1080 reciver ,it has two sub outs , but when calabrating on screen it only shows 1 sub . My issue is when I run the room correction with the two connected it was giving a result of -10db , then when I checked levels with spl meter I had all speakers at 75db , but the subs were high at over 80db but I couldn't lower them because I was all the way down at -10db. So I turned off the sub at the back ran again with the gain at 50% ,, and again -10db , I kept turning it down until I got to 0.0db , then I turned that sub of and done the same with the other sub until I got that to 0.0db , then I turned the two on ran calibration again and got -4db . So I turned off the back sub ran again got the front one to read 0.0db and I pressed save . I then checked there levels separately, but I had to go to - 7db to get them to about 79 dB on the spl meter . There seem to be no video anywhere that looks at this for a reciver with two sub outputs but can't be calabrated separately.
Like the distance for example it's easy measure all other speakers but what do I tell the reciver that is only showing one sub that is 13ft away , and another that is just behind the seating area maybe 4feet away , I'm a little confused
,I love the channel and would appreciate your input with this .
Thanks
Darren from Ireland.
Hi Darren I have an older STR-DN1050 in my 7.1 set up, I think you'll find the 2 sub outlets are parallel not independent on these model's unfortunately.
I have 6 Wharfedale 9.5 towers set to Small and 3 subs; 2 Jamo J10's upfront on a Ysplitter to one outlet and a yamaha sw10 beside my chair.
I listen to YT Music (premium) using nvidea shield as my source through hdmi, I'm into a lot of bass heavy reggae, blues, country, rap rock, drop kick Murphys and of course Netflix movies.
Ive watched every sub set up video on YT and read endless forums, so I've played around a hell of a lot tuning these bloody things for freaking hours over the last couple of years, using the supplied set up mic, (I'm contemplating buying a caliberated measuring mic and getting REW but it looks like like a bit of a technical mission for this 53 year old carpenter)
First thing, I turn the nearfield yamaha sub off and gain match the 2 front subs to around 25% (25 to 50%) each on the subs own volume/gain knobs, keeping them identical.
Next run the auto set up procedure a few times, adjusting the sub gain knobs (so they both end up exactly the same on the sub gain knobs) until they show -9.5 db on the reciever display, that's about it really, if you just have 2 subs, besides setting all speakers to Small and crossovers usually between 80 and 100 hz (90 to100 hz sounds best in my 5.5m x 7.5m lounge listening room)
With 3 subs the next or last thing I do is adjust the nearfield yamaha sub by ear and use sbl meter (set to C weight) to check its in phase (its louder in phase) however I generally don't adjust the sub distances or volume levels on the reciever after setting the front subs up, (you can play with sub distance checking theyre in phase but it's probably best not to I'm lead believe)
Spl meters and set up mics apparently aren't that accurate for checking sub bass frequencies the subs usually have to be turned down a notch or two, I find.
Hope this helps mate, from a Blackbush and Tullamore DEW drinking 5th generation New Zealand Kiwi of Irish descent on both sides.l
Thanks bud , I will try it again and probably again and again , 👍
End goal is probably splash out on a caliberated measuring mic and learn how to use REW it looks like a bit of head fk.
Youthman is great, Audioholics is cool and Home Theatre Guru on YT has a guide on gain matching subs with spl meter
I'll try check that one out double subs they wreck my head , but I love em just the same ,
I need a subwoofer. I got to have that lower bass in the nether regions to have a real experience!
Me too!
There great when they work the amp in the speaker will go in a couple years and have to be replaced over and over etc etc etc I’ve seen these types of speakers at a repair place
Anytime you add electronics, that adds an additional potential failure point
Wounder if the flagships are much better (dm80 n dm30)? I still own there bp3000tl towers with builtin 18" subs and there cs3000 with a 10" sub. All there speakers since seem like a step back! Dont know why they went back to bipolar designs after the Demand series. Boggles me why they still pushing those crappy over priced dm90 up firing atmos modules over ceiling atmos speakers!?!
Great review. Ambulance is a terrible movie.
I actually enjoyed the movie
That's a long video just to say 'no'.😆
Do not buy those! Buy the previous 9000 models that are on sale!! Way better quality!! No cast baskets and cheese subs!
This whole video is an ad :/
hey man, u sound a little less excited than usual... ur personal life is none of my business but i hope everything is okay
Honestly, I’m doing fantastic! I’m getting ready for MWAVE, a trip to Atlanta Home Theater and a trip to Wisdom Audio. Some products are more exciting to me than others. It probably also doesn’t help that I finished filming this review at midnight. 🤣 The UA-cam grind is real.
But I super appreciate your checking in with me. That truly means the world to me.
Andrew Robinson just did a "in room" evaluation on these speakers and came out with a much different conclusion then you but did have the larger DM80 with larger subwoofers and the DM30 center. I think you grew your channel to much in only testing the biggest and best stuff on the market at rediiculous prices and for the only people that have theater rooms. You lost touch with the majority of people that in reality only have living rooms for a surround set up but still want to enjoy something better then a TV or stereo set up. Have fun in your theater room.
Just curious, did you even watch the video? The entire point of this video was to reach that very demographic. Those that do not have dedicated Theater Rooms. This is a very nice set up for someone that doesn’t have the ability or desire to add a dedicated subwoofer to their set up. This is a massive improvement over just about any sound bar. Go back through my 720 videos and you will find a ton of con tent made with budget friendly Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
Wow, you really told him. So the guy came up with a different take than Andrew Robinson (who gives fantastic, but rarely a negative review) and you decide to tell him how out of touch he is?
Is this your intellect or jealousy talking? There are channels for all walks of life and I am glad we have options and these reviewers have the self awareness to cater to other budgets. Comments like yours sound petty.
@sky, what exactly are you whining about? That you don't have a dedicated theater room? Guess what, neither do I. But why would I be made that someone else does? It's Michael's channel and he is welcome to produce whatever content he wants. Would I like a dedicated theater room? Absolutely and I hope to have one someday, but I'm not going to complain about content creator having something I don't. Michael talks about his journey all the time starting from very budget to his current setup. It's great he can afford the JTR setup now. Can I? Nope and likely I never will. If you want someone who talks about a living room setup at a much more budget friendly price, then find a different channel. It's really that simple
And that was the day I unsubscribed from Youthman😂😅
🤣🤣🤣🤣 you aren’t right bro 😆