@@theoldwarlock Just a reminder, but if your character has the Flynn effect shtick then use of the Chandelier is not optional. (bonus points if you can name that RPG)
Thank you Jim and Alex for your videos. I've recently returned to AD&D after so many years. I'm not a fan of recent editions and really wanted to go back to my roots. Your videos have been a great help. Thank you for all you bring to the community.
I'm really glad I never played anything other than 1st & 2nd edition. There was never any reason for a "New Edition". All that was needed with 1st edition AD&D were some 'revisions'. That's all that the game ever really needed.
@Lightmane Yeah. For so long, 3rd edition was all friends wanted to play. Not a bad system, I just felt it got way out of hand the more content came out for it. And I honestly don't like the "superhero," feeling 5th edition brings. Again, not a bad system. Just not my style. I prefer a more grounded system. Gary got it right, imo.
@@MGOtaku87 I think the experience point table in 3rd edition and beyond are all bad. Maybe the system is good, but I just saw an overabundance of rules that mostly just don't matter. One could say the same about the AD&D DMG, or 2nd edition too. With few exceptions, I think Basic D&D got it right.
Hi Michael, thank you for the comment! We love to hear about people's D&D journeys and we're thrilled to play a roll somehow. We hope your campaigns are full of adventure and be sure to keep your sword arm free!
The 1e DM Guide is still my favorite game book of all time. Back when we were starting out around 78/79, we had Blue Box, Players Handbook, and DM Guide. It would be another year of so before we as a group of 12 year olds could pool our money to buy the Monster Manual (a super expensive $8!) Anyway, the monster stats in the appendices of the DMG were all we had to go on for a lot of critters, and we still loved the game. You had to be failry good with math to figure out XPs back in the day, and keeping a dictionary handy to understand Gygax was always a plus. :-) Random dungeon charts were great too!
in 2e I let my players use the age ability score adjustments. Only the cleric in the group took me up on the offer, and he roleplays the heck out of it I also like it because it makes it so that not every party is comprised of characters who just came of age, which gives every afflicted campaign a "those meddling kids!" feel
You guys really make me wish I could drum up a group to play the old school again. I cut my teeth on AD&D. Played every edition since except 5th. They all have their pros and cons honestly, but none of them will ever have the level of nostalgia that could compete with my memories of first opening up the PHB, DMG, Unearthed Arcana, Fiend Folio etc. For a 14 year old kid in the late 90’s those books felt like opening archaic tomes filled with magical secrets.
This is kind of the reason I like Swords & Wizardry. It's basically OD&D plus all the supplements for OD&D, which is kind of like a really bare-bones AD&D without too much complexity.
RAW 1e is real unique experience. Got a 6 month old campaign going now where I try as hard as I can to keep RAW and it’s some of the most fun I’ve ever had of any edition. To talk a little about what I’ve found: some of the stuff you guys aren’t using turned out to generate a ton of content spontaneously by the players. Example: time passing between sessions + the spying/assassination tables has resulted in the party assassin attracting all kinds of attention as he completes contracts between sessions. Several of the other party members have started combing the countryside looking for this murderer and they’ve been uncovering all kinds of dungeons and unsavory activity.
There is an overall problem of “Demogorgon is waking up” that looms. So the players do have something to focus on. I don’t want to blow up the comment section with a wall of text, I only wanted to share an example of something cool that the rules helped create!
That 1st edition DMG is...a lot. The first time I read it, I couldn't decide if Gygax was a genius or a madman. Probably a bit of both. ;) Our group uses it pretty much the same way you do: The combat tables and magic items are essential, most of the rest is just there to cherry-pick for ideas. I love that it's so random and quirky, D&D has lost a lot of that idiosyncratic personality over the various editions.
41:27 My DMing philosophy is that DMs should try to be more like each other, rather than unique; be more consistent. Consistency is important. Players are discouraged by a lack of consistency more than anything, whether it's a lack of consistency in scheduling, refereeing, fellow player attendance, it doesn't matter. Players need consistency. The reason there's a Dungeon Master's Guide is so that players can switch from one DM to another more seamlessly if all DMs are theoretically able to consistently use complicated tournament rules like psionics, henchmen, spell creation, magical item manufacturing, etc. That way, players know what to expect when joining a new group. It's to ease the transition. I run AD&D 2nd Edition and I read the DMG like it's my bible but it's to preserve consistency. The less stuff I have to make up on the fly, the more consistent the game is. I might be weird for striving to be a consistent tournament DM but whatever. It is what it is. At the end of the day, my players pay me money for a consistent, fair game.🤑
I agree that the random powers of the artifacts is a cool concept and I still use it to this day. Especially if the new owner has to figure out what they are....
I always kinda hated the rule in D&D where being a Werewolf makes you chaotic evil. I like the idea that it is the wolf form itself that is Chaotic Evil, not necissarily the person, though it is hard to keep the werewolf side from shifting your alighnment.(In a sense everyone it kills you are accomplice to, so if you are not actively trying to prevent the killing, and you are aware of it, it's going to shift your alignment.) Personally I don't even run Werewolves as inherently evil. THey are one of the rarer examples of pop-culture hardening a myth. As werewolves in folk lore run the gambit from horrific monsters to heroic demon hunters... One idea I like to play with is the notion of "integrating the shadow." So I have the wolf start out like a purely bestial thing. The more you reject the wolf, the more monstrous it will become as it begins to take on your more monstrous traits due it being "kept" in that part of your mind. However if you embrace the wolf too much you will become more like a wild animal, until it is all that remains. However, if you learn to properly integrate the wolf without letting it control you, you can learn to live in peace with it, and even learn to take control of it's power. Thus making for Evil, Neutral, and Good manifestations (Though the latter does not HAVE to be Good). Mechanically the first manifests like a murderous curse, the second has you slowly turn into a highly aggressive wild animal (essentially a strange character death), and the final would require you to take levels in a class but would slowly give you more control over your Werewolf abilities.
I've been teaching myself this system called Hyperborea 3e and it's so elegant. From what I can tell, given that Hyperborea is my first OSR game of any kind, it's basically AD&D 1e but tweaked in all the right ways. I think you guys would really like it a lot, especially the included setting. I say all this under this video in particular because I also recently picked up this DMG, and so much of it still really useful. The advice for DMs is still as good then as it is today, not to mention all the tables! It's a great help even if I'm not playing AD&D 1e exactly.
Hey my favorite DMG nice one. I will say I love love LOVE Appendix A, easily the most important reason, it helps in creating empty spaces and fill in space between major ideas (chambers) you absolutely need to have in a dungeon. Without that random dungeon generator I would not have the more sadistic traps and inspirations for dangerous unpredictable labyrinths. Everything else like the treasures I 100% agree is great and the combat charts are super useful, but Appendix A is my goto dungeon generator and gives me the most fun to effort ratio as a DM.
It definitely is great for that! I agree, it can be tough to kind of fill some of those spaces in creativity, I think that every DM has run into this problem. Thanks for the comment, and keep your sword arm free!
I think the 1st ed AD&D DM's Guide is the best of the lot and has never been equaled. But I agree with you guys, it's a guide and you won't always need all of it.
As for dungeons (especially megadungeons) I tend to look at those differently than you guys. I like to think of them more as mythological supernatural hellscapes where logic or the laws of reality need not apply... *Evil Chuckle*
Interesting approach. I may have to try applying that to some megadungeons. I can see some logical ways of doing that - maybe even the give some megadungeons their own sentience.
In some of the Basic versions of the game if you read between the lines the rules seem to suggest that. Doors sticking for characters but not monsters as an example. The spirit of the place hates intruders, especially those of opposite alignments. The Echoes of Heaven setting called those supernatural dungeons... Ulcers and I love that. It's some extraplanar locale bubbling up and rupturing into the material plane.
I think there’s a number of ways that AD&D (and especially the DMG) has been used over the years. One tradition has tried to play as close to the rules as possible (though a few house rules remain almost inevitable). This produces a very particular style of intense gameplay which has a lot of moving parts to it but does place certain burdens on the players and the DM. Another tradition is the “take whatever is useful and ignore the rest” tradition. The roots of the second tradition go back to OD&D where this was essentially the assumed play style. In AD&D Gygax developed much more rules intensive game out of the OD&D rules, but many found they it didn’t fit with their own preferences though others found AD&D much more functional. Both of these traditions continue today.
I'm excited! What could be more exciting than a thick book from the 70's full of ponderous text, charts and tables? A 43 minute video on the topic! Let's go! 😁 Watched it, enjoyed it! I would have loved to hear more about how you ruin things relating to what you were going through in the book.
I was very surprised after recently rereading the DMG cover to cover for the first time in 30 years? And I was surprised how much of the DMG we did not use and how similar the way we play 5e was was so close to 1e. After some reflection I think I’ve been playing some kind of modified BECMI over the years without even realizing it. Though I started with Holmes I owned the red box when it came out and played that for years before “graduating” to AD&D.
That was very similar to our experience. We only realized in the past few years that we play some sort of combination of a few editions. While these are primarily AD&D, there are influences from elsewhere as well. Thanks for the comment, and keep your sword arm free!
I fully agree with your take on the DMG. It’s like the pirates code... there more of guidelines 😅. Useful information but only up to how/what the campaign needs.. not rigid expectations
You are gamers after my own heart. There is much wisdom in the old ways (I have been playing since '79) I would feel very comfortable playing at your table. New is not always better and in the evolution of the game it has lost much of it's earlier charm. Thanks for the validation that most of us old timers are still doing it right.
I cant wait to watch this whole video. I keep hearing the 1e DMG is much better than the 2e DMG, but ive never heard clear explanations of the differences between the books
I really loved this video. I tried (multiple times) to run the game btb, but it's just not possible. At least not for me. But I love the dmg (as a guide). I'm already waiting for your next video. Greetings from Argentina.
Thanks so much for the comment! We agree, there's a lot of rules that seem to get in the way of the game. Glad to hear you liked the video, and keep your sword arm free! Hope all is well in Argentina.
Great video!!! Sorry I'm late to the party (no pun intended)! I started playing around the same time as the Old Warlock (1979) with Holmes Basic and then progressed to AD&D 1e as the books came out -- though I couldn't afford them myself and had to rely on my buddy's older brothers due to my insufficient lawn-mowing "salary." I wound up working on AD&D and other games a very long tine ago (like WEG's Star Wars) professionally, but always I was in the shadow of the masters. Thanks for the very comprehensive video --- I still run 1e and recommend the channel to my players!!!
And I love that you're introducing your son to this version -- my son is only 4 due to scientific reasons -- but I'm hoping he (literally) picks up the torch.
I really enjoyed this series of videos. I couldn't quite parse out which combat system you use for your home game -- do you use the segments/rounds of AD&D or the phases from OD&D/Basic?
2:47 5th edition D&D appears to be all about your characters background. We never cared about our characters background, because it just didn't matter. Who cares what happened to your character? All that mattered was what's happening now. Sure, you can create a background if you want, but I don't get why it's such a big deal for some people. Just roll up your character and let's go adventuring. That's all that ever mattered to us. 11:35 Obviously you've never seen my rowboat 😎😛🙂 13:47 I think we all love that awesome artwork. It's just so cool. 18:10 Ok, we finally disagree on something. We did use negative hit points, and death occurred at -10, but if I ever run a game again, I'm changing it to -5, and I'm going to do it differently then we did. The first time I played, the DM rolled a d4, and if that result brought you to positive hit points, you didn't die. I think -1 is basically no different than 0, and I really like negative hit points meaning your character is going in and out of consciousness, and could die. Don't think you're wrong, or that your rule is bad. I just think it should be more than just 0 unconscious, -1 dead. -5 seems about right for me. -10 was pretty silly though 🙂 19:06 I like how you do experience points. Very cool. 36:07 I just made a video where I highly recommend 8 different fantasy novels. You might enjoy watching it 🙂 37:30 We used those combat tables all the time too, as I'm sure everybody did, but now I've created my own combat system, so I had to make new tables too. The little playtesting I've done has been pretty good, but I'm sure it still needs some more work. I like how you just work things out, make it up, instead of just having a 'rule' for everything, which apparently is what 5e does. Making stuff up on the fly is part of what D&D was always about. I think turning every possible situation into a 'rule' is a mistake by WotC. Great video guys. Really enjoyed this 🙂
"We did use negative hit points, and death occurred at -10, but if I ever run a game again, I'm changing it to -5, and I'm going to do it differently then we did. The first time I played, the DM rolled a d4, and if that result brought you to positive hit points, you didn't die." I just saw your video talking about it yesterday.
@@theoldwarlock :) for sure! Seems like it would be great to hang out with ya guys. Very down-to-earth. I look forward to what you guys keep putting out!
I think we used just a little more of the rules than you did. Or at least we referenced them for general information a little more. When we played in a pirate campaign, we needed the waterborne game information. We didn't use it much but we needed to know things like how far in a day could we travel and what the base speeds of vessels were. When we had a high level campaign, our characters were to become Lords and Barons of lands. We needed followers so each of us that could rolled for our "Fanatical Followers" and such. We also had to have armies and Leaders so these were Henchmen and Hirelings for us. It was the first time that any of us had done these things so the rules guided us along. We played a lot like you and we just winged it and rolled for this and that as appropriate. We did use secondary skills if you wanted to roll for it and many of us used it, a little, for our backstory. My Thief that was a Lapidary worked in a jewelry shop. That is until he decided to rob it... I personally hate playing with rules lawyers. And if you spend half the night looking up rules it tends to be a dull time for everyone.
We agree, there's definitely important rules that are at least good advisors for certain situations! We do often avoid using some spelled out rules and prefer to leave a lot of things up to the DM's discretion. Thanks for the comment, and keep your sword arm free!
I would like to ask though, even though you don't use it much anymore, i'm sure it was a big influence on what you do now and not really even think about it. Just like me, another old timer, I think I used it more in the day but you change things around and sometimes we forget where our changes began. Great Video guys!
We've never set anything exactly in stone. It depends on the situation - which player or monster might be quicker, etc., and we always roll a 6 sided that gets adjusted. Initiative determination is mostly DM ruled.
Hey RDMR! I stopped using the infra and ultra vision rules for humanoid characters pretty early. Dwarves and similar underground dwellers still have bonuses when in dungeon-type darkness. Elves and similar have bonuses at night outdoors. But the bonuses are not as strong as listed in the manuals. The bonuses of the books never seemed realistic to me so (as I've often done) I altered them to fit my vision (no pun intended) of what night vision should be like for dwarves, elves, and such.
@@theoldwarlock Cool! I like that idea, and we kinda played it up that way ourselves as well. What I thought you were gonna say was that you really like the idea of having to use a light source, and that that unique vision for a lot of races removed that need enough that you cut out the vision advantage. 🤓
Combat and Saving Throws ... So a DM Screen! BUT how I do Death: I do -10 your Dead! But at -1 you are Unconscious and bleeding out, you also lose 1Hp a Turn while Bleeding out, if not stopped and you reach -10 and would Die, ALSO if you had 1 Hp and something hit you for 12hps of Damage, you are already below -10 and Dead without a chance for anyone to save you! "Bleeding out can be stopped by 1 Turn of Bandaging" *IF you have Bandages ... the Whole Party goes down Unconscious, you are considered to have had Bleed out or Finished off by your attackers, Instead of Dutie fees from Brought in Items, Sold Items sell for Much less, for the merchant to make his Profit as well as some to City Taxes. (1/3 Reduced from Item Value, 1/2 if Blackmarketed), NPCs I have a couple Generic Common Folk in town, but if a key NPC I'll just roll them up, or I've even used Past characters as a New Groups NPC, Crafting Magic Items, IF you can Find a NPC/Character big enough to do the enchant, Each thing it is Enchanted with increases its chance (%) to fail and be Destroyed, and I make it have mini Quests for rare Components that required. I am trying to NOT use DM guides Magic Items and Make up My Own, even if they're sort of like one from DM guide, I dont want the Players to say oh that's a Wand of Wonder .
That's an interesting way to go about it, it sounds a little bit like the Death Saves mechanic in some of the other editions! Thanks so much for sharing, and keep your sword arm free!
Very much agree. And I've always felt that when he tried to cover every contingency, he actually highlighted how many other things were left out of having a rule or table.
12:55 Can't mechanically find invisible creatures? Too easy. Ten hit dice, 13+ intelligence, save vs spell to somehow notice the creature. Don't have that? Players gonna abuse the hell out of a broken spell.
We have a copy of OSRIC. It's essentially the rule set Jim has played with for decades but we have a heavily home brewed game so not all of it is used. Yes! We are father and son. The father is the good-looking one. KYSAF!
@theoldwarlock I started with my father, and he always did some rules hash with B/X and A, which seems so common from the era's grognards. Probably due to how they released the books with the DMG coming out years later. I''ve been with the same woman for a long time, and she's unable to have children, so I've not been fortunate enough to pass it on.
@@99zxk I'm sorry to hear that. I've been really lucky with my boys. Regarding the rules hash like your father used, yes, it was really common and I think you nailed it - he DMs Guide came out so long after people had adapted basic and added the PH and MM.
You mentioned one reason I like earlier editions. You don’t need the chandelier swinging feat to try something dramatic 😂
We don't treat everyone as a superhero! While there will be moments where this is the case, a lot of the adventure comes from much simpler things.
Simple ability checks with modifiers is easy to do on the fly under the old rules
But bracers of brachiation would certainly help...
I find this easy to do in 5e. Just takes embracing the rule that rules are guidelines
@@theoldwarlock Just a reminder, but if your character has the Flynn effect shtick then use of the Chandelier is not optional. (bonus points if you can name that RPG)
I have returned to my favorite and best edition, 1 E after almost 40 years. It’s like learning it all over again but in a fun way.
Thank you Jim and Alex for your videos. I've recently returned to AD&D after so many years. I'm not a fan of recent editions and really wanted to go back to my roots. Your videos have been a great help. Thank you for all you bring to the community.
I'm really glad I never played anything other than 1st & 2nd edition. There was never any reason for a "New Edition". All that was needed with 1st edition AD&D were some 'revisions'. That's all that the game ever really needed.
@Lightmane Yeah. For so long, 3rd edition was all friends wanted to play. Not a bad system, I just felt it got way out of hand the more content came out for it. And I honestly don't like the "superhero," feeling 5th edition brings. Again, not a bad system. Just not my style. I prefer a more grounded system. Gary got it right, imo.
@@MGOtaku87 I think the experience point table in 3rd edition and beyond are all bad. Maybe the system is good, but I just saw an overabundance of rules that mostly just don't matter. One could say the same about the AD&D DMG, or 2nd edition too. With few exceptions, I think Basic D&D got it right.
Hi Michael, thank you for the comment! We love to hear about people's D&D journeys and we're thrilled to play a roll somehow. We hope your campaigns are full of adventure and be sure to keep your sword arm free!
The 1e DM Guide is still my favorite game book of all time.
Back when we were starting out around 78/79, we had Blue Box, Players Handbook, and DM Guide. It would be another year of so before we as a group of 12 year olds could pool our money to buy the Monster Manual (a super expensive $8!)
Anyway, the monster stats in the appendices of the DMG were all we had to go on for a lot of critters, and we still loved the game. You had to be failry good with math to figure out XPs back in the day, and keeping a dictionary handy to understand Gygax was always a plus. :-)
Random dungeon charts were great too!
Tons of good stuff in all of those books, and it seems like compiling them and collecting has always been a part of the fun! Keep your sword arm free!
Keep doing what you're doing. Watching these videos is really inspiring me to get back into D&D.
We love reading comments like this! So glad to hear you like the content, and we hope you do end up playing again. Keep your sword arm free!
in 2e I let my players use the age ability score adjustments. Only the cleric in the group took me up on the offer, and he roleplays the heck out of it
I also like it because it makes it so that not every party is comprised of characters who just came of age, which gives every afflicted campaign a "those meddling kids!" feel
You guys really make me wish I could drum up a group to play the old school again. I cut my teeth on AD&D. Played every edition since except 5th. They all have their pros and cons honestly, but none of them will ever have the level of nostalgia that could compete with my memories of first opening up the PHB, DMG, Unearthed Arcana, Fiend Folio etc. For a 14 year old kid in the late 90’s those books felt like opening archaic tomes filled with magical secrets.
Hopefully you're able to get a group going again! We wish you best of luck! Keep your sword arm free!
This is kind of the reason I like Swords & Wizardry. It's basically OD&D plus all the supplements for OD&D, which is kind of like a really bare-bones AD&D without too much complexity.
We'll have to check it out! Thanks!
RAW 1e is real unique experience. Got a 6 month old campaign going now where I try as hard as I can to keep RAW and it’s some of the most fun I’ve ever had of any edition.
To talk a little about what I’ve found: some of the stuff you guys aren’t using turned out to generate a ton of content spontaneously by the players. Example: time passing between sessions + the spying/assassination tables has resulted in the party assassin attracting all kinds of attention as he completes contracts between sessions. Several of the other party members have started combing the countryside looking for this murderer and they’ve been uncovering all kinds of dungeons and unsavory activity.
There is an overall problem of “Demogorgon is waking up” that looms. So the players do have something to focus on.
I don’t want to blow up the comment section with a wall of text, I only wanted to share an example of something cool that the rules helped create!
Thanks for the comment. It's good to hear how people are using what we don't. Maybe a revisit is needed for us.
That 1st edition DMG is...a lot. The first time I read it, I couldn't decide if Gygax was a genius or a madman. Probably a bit of both. ;)
Our group uses it pretty much the same way you do: The combat tables and magic items are essential, most of the rest is just there to cherry-pick for ideas.
I love that it's so random and quirky, D&D has lost a lot of that idiosyncratic personality over the various editions.
Glad to hear you agree! There's a lot of great things to take as inspiration from all the books. Thanks for the comment and keep your sword arm free!
41:27 My DMing philosophy is that DMs should try to be more like each other, rather than unique; be more consistent. Consistency is important. Players are discouraged by a lack of consistency more than anything, whether it's a lack of consistency in scheduling, refereeing, fellow player attendance, it doesn't matter. Players need consistency. The reason there's a Dungeon Master's Guide is so that players can switch from one DM to another more seamlessly if all DMs are theoretically able to consistently use complicated tournament rules like psionics, henchmen, spell creation, magical item manufacturing, etc. That way, players know what to expect when joining a new group. It's to ease the transition. I run AD&D 2nd Edition and I read the DMG like it's my bible but it's to preserve consistency. The less stuff I have to make up on the fly, the more consistent the game is. I might be weird for striving to be a consistent tournament DM but whatever. It is what it is. At the end of the day, my players pay me money for a consistent, fair game.🤑
I agree that the random powers of the artifacts is a cool concept and I still use it to this day. Especially if the new owner has to figure out what they are....
I always kinda hated the rule in D&D where being a Werewolf makes you chaotic evil. I like the idea that it is the wolf form itself that is Chaotic Evil, not necissarily the person, though it is hard to keep the werewolf side from shifting your alighnment.(In a sense everyone it kills you are accomplice to, so if you are not actively trying to prevent the killing, and you are aware of it, it's going to shift your alignment.)
Personally I don't even run Werewolves as inherently evil. THey are one of the rarer examples of pop-culture hardening a myth. As werewolves in folk lore run the gambit from horrific monsters to heroic demon hunters... One idea I like to play with is the notion of "integrating the shadow." So I have the wolf start out like a purely bestial thing. The more you reject the wolf, the more monstrous it will become as it begins to take on your more monstrous traits due it being "kept" in that part of your mind. However if you embrace the wolf too much you will become more like a wild animal, until it is all that remains. However, if you learn to properly integrate the wolf without letting it control you, you can learn to live in peace with it, and even learn to take control of it's power.
Thus making for Evil, Neutral, and Good manifestations (Though the latter does not HAVE to be Good). Mechanically the first manifests like a murderous curse, the second has you slowly turn into a highly aggressive wild animal (essentially a strange character death), and the final would require you to take levels in a class but would slowly give you more control over your Werewolf abilities.
I've been teaching myself this system called Hyperborea 3e and it's so elegant. From what I can tell, given that Hyperborea is my first OSR game of any kind, it's basically AD&D 1e but tweaked in all the right ways. I think you guys would really like it a lot, especially the included setting.
I say all this under this video in particular because I also recently picked up this DMG, and so much of it still really useful. The advice for DMs is still as good then as it is today, not to mention all the tables! It's a great help even if I'm not playing AD&D 1e exactly.
Thanks for the recommendation Varian, we may have to check it out! We love to get new OSRs suggested. Keep your sword arm free!
Hey my favorite DMG nice one.
I will say I love love LOVE Appendix A, easily the most important reason, it helps in creating empty spaces and fill in space between major ideas (chambers) you absolutely need to have in a dungeon. Without that random dungeon generator I would not have the more sadistic traps and inspirations for dangerous unpredictable labyrinths. Everything else like the treasures I 100% agree is great and the combat charts are super useful, but Appendix A is my goto dungeon generator and gives me the most fun to effort ratio as a DM.
It definitely is great for that! I agree, it can be tough to kind of fill some of those spaces in creativity, I think that every DM has run into this problem. Thanks for the comment, and keep your sword arm free!
I think the 1st ed AD&D DM's Guide is the best of the lot and has never been equaled. But I agree with you guys, it's a guide and you won't always need all of it.
I appreciate how your group just picks and chooses the rules that work for your style.
As for dungeons (especially megadungeons) I tend to look at those differently than you guys. I like to think of them more as mythological supernatural hellscapes where logic or the laws of reality need not apply... *Evil Chuckle*
Interesting approach. I may have to try applying that to some megadungeons. I can see some logical ways of doing that - maybe even the give some megadungeons their own sentience.
In some of the Basic versions of the game if you read between the lines the rules seem to suggest that. Doors sticking for characters but not monsters as an example. The spirit of the place hates intruders, especially those of opposite alignments.
The Echoes of Heaven setting called those supernatural dungeons... Ulcers and I love that. It's some extraplanar locale bubbling up and rupturing into the material plane.
I think there’s a number of ways that AD&D (and especially the DMG) has been used over the years. One tradition has tried to play as close to the rules as possible (though a few house rules remain almost inevitable). This produces a very particular style of intense gameplay which has a lot of moving parts to it but does place certain burdens on the players and the DM. Another tradition is the “take whatever is useful and ignore the rest” tradition. The roots of the second tradition go back to OD&D where this was essentially the assumed play style. In AD&D Gygax developed much more rules intensive game out of the OD&D rules, but many found they it didn’t fit with their own preferences though others found AD&D much more functional. Both of these traditions continue today.
I'm excited! What could be more exciting than a thick book from the 70's full of ponderous text, charts and tables? A 43 minute video on the topic! Let's go! 😁
Watched it, enjoyed it! I would have loved to hear more about how you ruin things relating to what you were going through in the book.
Hey Paavo! Glad you enjoyed it. We may take a more in-depth look at the book and Jim's world examples next year.
@@theoldwarlock That would be very cool! Thanks :)
I'm firmly in the B/X camp these days, or Castles & Crusades, if I wanna play d&d. But Ad&d 1st Ed is sweet
Great insight into Dad's DM style. Really enjoyed this one.
He's quite the DM until he starts actively trying to kill your character. Keep your sword arm free!
I was very surprised after recently rereading the DMG cover to cover for the first time in 30 years? And I was surprised how much of the DMG we did not use and how similar the way we play 5e was was so close to 1e. After some reflection I think I’ve been playing some kind of modified BECMI over the years without even realizing it. Though I started with Holmes I owned the red box when it came out and played that for years before “graduating” to AD&D.
That was very similar to our experience. We only realized in the past few years that we play some sort of combination of a few editions. While these are primarily AD&D, there are influences from elsewhere as well. Thanks for the comment, and keep your sword arm free!
I fully agree with your take on the DMG. It’s like the pirates code... there more of guidelines 😅. Useful information but only up to how/what the campaign needs.. not rigid expectations
Love the reference. And yes, more of an influence as opposed to a rigid rule. Keep your sword arm free!
What makes AD&D combat complicated is the minute round, tracking segments, surprise and initiative.
You are gamers after my own heart. There is much wisdom in the old ways (I have been playing since '79) I would feel very comfortable playing at your table. New is not always better and in the evolution of the game it has lost much of it's earlier charm. Thanks for the validation that most of us old timers are still doing it right.
Thanks, Marcus!
I cant wait to watch this whole video. I keep hearing the 1e DMG is much better than the 2e DMG, but ive never heard clear explanations of the differences between the books
I hope you ended up enjoying it! Thanks for watching, and keep your sword arm free!
I really loved this video. I tried (multiple times) to run the game btb, but it's just not possible. At least not for me.
But I love the dmg (as a guide).
I'm already waiting for your next video.
Greetings from Argentina.
Thanks so much for the comment! We agree, there's a lot of rules that seem to get in the way of the game. Glad to hear you liked the video, and keep your sword arm free! Hope all is well in Argentina.
Great video!!! Sorry I'm late to the party (no pun intended)! I started playing around the same time as the Old Warlock (1979) with Holmes Basic and then progressed to AD&D 1e as the books came out -- though I couldn't afford them myself and had to rely on my buddy's older brothers due to my insufficient lawn-mowing "salary." I wound up working on AD&D and other games a very long tine ago (like WEG's Star Wars) professionally, but always I was in the shadow of the masters. Thanks for the very comprehensive video --- I still run 1e and recommend the channel to my players!!!
And I love that you're introducing your son to this version -- my son is only 4 due to scientific reasons -- but I'm hoping he (literally) picks up the torch.
And one last thing, I totally agree with encouraging the players try anything and the DM making the determination about the outcome.
Thanks, George. Glad you liked the video.
I really enjoyed this series of videos. I couldn't quite parse out which combat system you use for your home game -- do you use the segments/rounds of AD&D or the phases from OD&D/Basic?
We use rounds with loosely applied segments.
Love that book. Read it as a teenager. Still do at 53
its a genuine work of literature
Lots of cool stuff in there definitely.
2:47 5th edition D&D appears to be all about your characters background. We never cared about our characters background, because it just didn't matter. Who cares what happened to your character? All that mattered was what's happening now. Sure, you can create a background if you want, but I don't get why it's such a big deal for some people. Just roll up your character and let's go adventuring. That's all that ever mattered to us.
11:35 Obviously you've never seen my rowboat 😎😛🙂
13:47 I think we all love that awesome artwork. It's just so cool.
18:10 Ok, we finally disagree on something. We did use negative hit points, and death occurred at -10, but if I ever run a game again, I'm changing it to -5, and I'm going to do it differently then we did. The first time I played, the DM rolled a d4, and if that result brought you to positive hit points, you didn't die. I think -1 is basically no different than 0, and I really like negative hit points meaning your character is going in and out of consciousness, and could die. Don't think you're wrong, or that your rule is bad. I just think it should be more than just 0 unconscious, -1 dead. -5 seems about right for me. -10 was pretty silly though 🙂
19:06 I like how you do experience points. Very cool.
36:07 I just made a video where I highly recommend 8 different fantasy novels. You might enjoy watching it 🙂
37:30 We used those combat tables all the time too, as I'm sure everybody did, but now I've created my own combat system, so I had to make new tables too. The little playtesting I've done has been pretty good, but I'm sure it still needs some more work. I like how you just work things out, make it up, instead of just having a 'rule' for everything, which apparently is what 5e does. Making stuff up on the fly is part of what D&D was always about. I think turning every possible situation into a 'rule' is a mistake by WotC.
Great video guys. Really enjoyed this 🙂
"We did use negative hit points, and death occurred at -10, but if I ever run a game again, I'm changing it to -5, and I'm going to do it differently then we did. The first time I played, the DM rolled a d4, and if that result brought you to positive hit points, you didn't die." I just saw your video talking about it yesterday.
@@PanSemSousa cool 🙂
16 seconds in, and I'm already laughing and smiling. You guys are great.
Thanks, BCP. Glad you enjoy our special brand of nonsense.
@@theoldwarlock :) for sure! Seems like it would be great to hang out with ya guys. Very down-to-earth. I look forward to what you guys keep putting out!
I think we used just a little more of the rules than you did. Or at least we referenced them for general information a little more.
When we played in a pirate campaign, we needed the waterborne game information. We didn't use it much but we needed to know things like how far in a day could we travel and what the base speeds of vessels were.
When we had a high level campaign, our characters were to become Lords and Barons of lands. We needed followers so each of us that could rolled for our "Fanatical Followers" and such. We also had to have armies and Leaders so these were Henchmen and Hirelings for us. It was the first time that any of us had done these things so the rules guided us along.
We played a lot like you and we just winged it and rolled for this and that as appropriate.
We did use secondary skills if you wanted to roll for it and many of us used it, a little, for our backstory. My Thief that was a Lapidary worked in a jewelry shop. That is until he decided to rob it...
I personally hate playing with rules lawyers. And if you spend half the night looking up rules it tends to be a dull time for everyone.
We agree, there's definitely important rules that are at least good advisors for certain situations! We do often avoid using some spelled out rules and prefer to leave a lot of things up to the DM's discretion. Thanks for the comment, and keep your sword arm free!
I would like to ask though, even though you don't use it much anymore, i'm sure it was a big influence on what you do now and not really even think about it. Just like me, another old timer, I think I used it more in the day but you change things around and sometimes we forget where our changes began. Great Video guys!
Glad you liked it! It definitely had an impact on a lot of the things we do and how we play the game. Keep your sword arm free!
I think the DMG is mostly for playing solitaire or in random design.
Ok. Out of curiosity what do you use for initiative rules?
We've never set anything exactly in stone. It depends on the situation - which player or monster might be quicker, etc., and we always roll a 6 sided that gets adjusted. Initiative determination is mostly DM ruled.
Just now noticed you said no Infravision or Ultravision? Mayhap, please explain. 🤔🤓
Hey RDMR! I stopped using the infra and ultra vision rules for humanoid characters pretty early. Dwarves and similar underground dwellers still have bonuses when in dungeon-type darkness. Elves and similar have bonuses at night outdoors. But the bonuses are not as strong as listed in the manuals. The bonuses of the books never seemed realistic to me so (as I've often done) I altered them to fit my vision (no pun intended) of what night vision should be like for dwarves, elves, and such.
@@theoldwarlock Cool! I like that idea, and we kinda played it up that way ourselves as well. What I thought you were gonna say was that you really like the idea of having to use a light source, and that that unique vision for a lot of races removed that need enough that you cut out the vision advantage. 🤓
I think the DMG defines its self, its just a guide.
That's how we view it!
Combat and Saving Throws ... So a DM Screen! BUT how I do Death: I do -10 your Dead! But at -1 you are Unconscious and bleeding out, you also lose 1Hp a Turn while Bleeding out, if not stopped and you reach -10 and would Die, ALSO if you had 1 Hp and something hit you for 12hps of Damage, you are already below -10 and Dead without a chance for anyone to save you! "Bleeding out can be stopped by 1 Turn of Bandaging" *IF you have Bandages ... the Whole Party goes down Unconscious, you are considered to have had Bleed out or Finished off by your attackers, Instead of Dutie fees from Brought in Items, Sold Items sell for Much less, for the merchant to make his Profit as well as some to City Taxes. (1/3 Reduced from Item Value, 1/2 if Blackmarketed), NPCs I have a couple Generic Common Folk in town, but if a key NPC I'll just roll them up, or I've even used Past characters as a New Groups NPC, Crafting Magic Items, IF you can Find a NPC/Character big enough to do the enchant, Each thing it is Enchanted with increases its chance (%) to fail and be Destroyed, and I make it have mini Quests for rare Components that required. I am trying to NOT use DM guides Magic Items and Make up My Own, even if they're sort of like one from DM guide, I dont want the Players to say oh that's a Wand of Wonder .
That's an interesting way to go about it, it sounds a little bit like the Death Saves mechanic in some of the other editions! Thanks so much for sharing, and keep your sword arm free!
100% Those are all the same rules I’ve always played with. Maybe we’ve met. 😉
any links to your pummeling table?
I haven't posted it, but I'll see what I can do and let you know.
We're wearing different shirts, aren't we.........................
Again, we're glad someone noticed this one lol!
Feel free to say you're gonna "throw up" pages! It's a natural way to say it haha
Thank you, we appreciate the support.
9:40 No henchmen? What's charisma good for then? No reason to even use charisma if you can't get henchmen.
Reaction adjustments
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14:30 What....... -______________- Paizo battle mat: $9.99. Old Ral Partha minis: $5.00. Not having to play theater of the mind: pricele$$
Trey Parker and Matt Stone sure have changed.
Dang! You've figured us out!
Gygax tended to over-design. There does not need to be a rule/table for every contingency.
Very much agree. And I've always felt that when he tried to cover every contingency, he actually highlighted how many other things were left out of having a rule or table.
Can I play dnd with u guys I miss AD&D
Thanks Todd! We may be doing a video on how to find AD&D groups in local areas. That might give you an option.
12:55 Can't mechanically find invisible creatures? Too easy. Ten hit dice, 13+ intelligence, save vs spell to somehow notice the creature. Don't have that? Players gonna abuse the hell out of a broken spell.
Do you guys ever use OSRIC? Are you father and son?
We have a copy of OSRIC. It's essentially the rule set Jim has played with for decades but we have a heavily home brewed game so not all of it is used. Yes! We are father and son. The father is the good-looking one. KYSAF!
@theoldwarlock I started with my father, and he always did some rules hash with B/X and A, which seems so common from the era's grognards. Probably due to how they released the books with the DMG coming out years later. I''ve been with the same woman for a long time, and she's unable to have children, so I've not been fortunate enough to pass it on.
@@99zxk I'm sorry to hear that. I've been really lucky with my boys. Regarding the rules hash like your father used, yes, it was really common and I think you nailed it - he DMs Guide came out so long after people had adapted basic and added the PH and MM.
Your immense loss.
I use potluck. rules from all editions.