I think that what is called 'toxic masculinity', on examination, is usually very immature masculine behaviour. Probably the same for whatever behaviour is ascribed to 'toxic femininity'. It is adults behaving as if they never left the school yard.
I don't know Jordan Peterson, but it sounds cool to get him on here. Cause now I want to know about this guy 😅 Btw, just finished watching all 3 videos here, I watched in the order of number 3-1-2 and I really like your new channel. Well done! Keep the interviews coming 🤗
I find Jordan Peterson a strange character, there is something that is part gut instinct about my feelings about him. When I've heard him speak in certain videos where he's started crying I've always felt there was a performative element and an insincerity about him. I'm willing to concede I could be wrong, it's not like I've met him in person to really get to know him but he to my mind fits the bill of someone who is a grifter, he's all about Jordan Peterson and the cult of Jordan Peterson. He seems to revel in being provocative and there are areas where I find myself in agreement with him but I often find his way of engaging on topics needlessly abrasive. I think he is clearly an intelligent guy and has left many people who try to gotcha him look a bit silly. I've also seen him in some longer form debates just come across intentionally vague and needlessly wordy to leave himself the wiggle room of not being tied to something he's implied when challenged on it. It's probably unfair to blame him for the way his cult like followers defend him and attack people on social media when criticised but it doesn't help. Which is somewhat ironic as he's not entirely wrong on the censorious nature of a certain section of at least slightly left leaning parts of modern culture and as I said whilst I'm skeptical of him and think he spews a lot of word salad and plenty questionable statements he at least sometimes has points worth considering and it's always better have rigorous public debate rather than sacred views that can't be challenged.
@@Malky5279 There's definitely a cult following of the man. I think he speaks a lot of ambiguity in his words. I think he does try to stand up for the so called incels today or at least make them think he is on their side if nobody is. Whether he really is, that's another story.
My grandmother was a flapper, the 1920s version of a “liberated woman”. I remember in the 1960s and 70s, in the early days of the “sexual revolution” and the rise of feminism, hearing her say that no matter what we thought about those things, it was still only the women who get pregnant. I think about that when people claim that gender differences are merely social constructs.
Respectfully, that is a moronic argument. Nobody is saying that "men" in the sense you mean can give birth. You are intentionally pretending they are so that you can point to a caricature and call it stupid.
She's right but also for a population of women, the experience of a women's LIFE-CYCLE is fundamentally VERY different to a man's: What priorities and goals how her behaviour will change at different stages it's all affected: Not only is being pregnant coming with medical condition during term, but for the next 20+ years there's the nurturing of a growing human (eg pre-frontal cortex in brain carries on developing in early-20s for example...). What we see in West is an attempt to shape men and women to the economic system instead of what is better: To shape the economy to the biology of men and women eg family focus for a major example. Put that way the idea of gender equalization at work is a form of insanity...
I've heard people, women talk about the sexual liberation of the 1960s it was only for men, it just meant women were pressured for sex and abused more and younger because they could get away with it more easily as there was less fear of say making a teenage girl pregnant, no one listens to women and girls especially not those in authority but you can't deny a pregnancy
Well I’ve just done 3 heretics in a row 😂 I very much enjoyed Nina’s perspective on many things and agree that women can be very toxic in a variety of ways. The only thing I disagreed with her on was her saying the 16yr old that dated RB had a lot of power in the relationship. I’ve been a 16 yr old in love and an almost 5 yr relationship (started at 14 yrs) He was 17yrs old and well known here. He treated me like a princess but I was immature which I didn’t think so at the time. I always did whatever he wanted to do, not because he made me but because I wanted to. I guarantee the 16yr old with RB was happy just to be with him and she did not have the same power because she was not mature enough to use any. Just because your body is able to have sex with a 31yr old, it doesn’t mean your brain is able to deal with an adult relationship. Love your new channel! ❤
My initial reaction was to think that the age gap was WAY to big and that RB was obviously taking advantage of a more naive and possibly vulnerable person (which may well have been the case) but I do think that Nina's point here about 16 meaning something slightly differnt in the 90's and teenagers feeling more sexual agency at that time is very accurate (not to say that's a good or bad thing). Im talking here as someone that went to a co-ed comprehensive school at that time. We seem to look back at the past through the eyes today with out any context. Nina's points about the culture/hedonism of the 90's i think is very valid here and i dont beleive she was in any way trying to excuse RB's behaviour.
@@Benalt998 I don’t think she was excusing RB’s behaviour either. I happen to have the insight of a 16yr old in a sexual relationship and there’s absolutely no way I had or any of us had the maturity that our bodies had. Of course we like to think we know everything at that age 😀 but if anyone looks back at themselves as a 16yr old, we would all come to the same conclusion, that we are smarter, much more mature and able to deal with the opposite sex in a better way.
Well said. A person at 16 does not have the experience to see where their decisions may lead them. Totally agree that girls who have sex may not learn enough about themselves through this time and need to experience self-awareness, and I suspect boys are the same. 16 year old with a man on his 30s may be excited about it, but she definitely would not have power in the relationship.
@@dbentleyto95 I would agree with you too on the 16yr old boys. I’d love to hear a male perspective from someone looking back to how they felt at that age if they were sexually active. When I was writing my experience about getting into a relationship at age 14 yrs. I kept thinking back to Andrew doing that Elvis episode and repeating 14 will get ya 20 😂😂
I love your new channel. It takes a lot of humility and courage to be a heretic. The world needs more people that are willing to change their mind. This is a great way to share ideas in an open civilized way.
What an enlightening interview. Nina finds perspective without judgment. I like how deeply analytical she responded to your (quite brilliant) questions were.
Smashing interview Andrew. I am an old lefty who believes in supporting each other and judging folks on the content of their character rather than a characteristic (colour, sexual preference etc). The leftist (new left) point of view, I can't get on board with because it feels like fascism. The left used to be about consensus the new left feels like it's about celebrating victimhood, group think and I just don't feel comfortable with where it's gone.
...and the left has abandoned its main role...interrogating, power, wealth and class. This obsession with identity has caused it to act in a fascist way.
The term leftist has been hijacked by the fascists. There is nothig left wing about the woke reactionary fascism we are witnessing. It's a corporatist agenda
“In Scripture, the enemy is often called diabolos throughout the New Testament, a Greek word derived from two words: dia, meaning apart, and balien, meaning to throw. To refer to the devil is to quite literally acknowledge him as the one who throws us apart, the one who scatters, the one who divides.”
Love Nina’s perspective, absolutely fascinating. I’m definitely going to buy her book. Thank you for the introduction Andrew & for the laughs about your experience in the men’s changing room!!! 😂
I can’t say that I relate to the idea that having sex with an older man is empowering. She definitely does not speak for all of us. And we can object to dirty old men preying on teenage girls without locking everyone into sex segregated schools and institutions. All female spaces can encourage terrifying levels of female aggression towards non conformist girls and women, and a lot of us feel safer when the sexes are more mixed. We can have sex segregated bathrooms without segregating everything else in society. I don’t want to live in Saudi Arabia.
Agree, I don’t personally find it empowering, nor did I have that experience, thank god, but I do remember the need to feel wanted and important at 16, so I can imagine that it would be easy for some girls to think they could get that from an older guy.
Is not empowering, you are actually losing power because you are more naive, less experienced, more excited to feel things so you act on a rush... You are easily controlled and manipulated, that is the contrary of being empowered.
Perhaps it might not be possible to separate biologically female student rest rooms. I think that ship has sailed. Furthermore, the young men may benefit from such single-sex schools, and they are the ones falling behind, at least here in the States.
For each their own. I always preferred older man, I found them more sophisticated sexually; they already know themselves and the world; they have wisdom and experience.
Nina is fascinating, strong, learned, opinionated, thoughtful, independent, self-assured, presents her thoughts and ideas very well, very clearly, gives me lots to think about. And with a pleasant neutral voice, no preachiness, no convincing impulse or tone. This is the first I've seen her or heard of her, so thanks Andrew for having her on.
I don’t think it’s fair to point out how a 16 year old have the power to sexually seduce grown ups, especially talking about a girl who claims that she’s been raped and groomed at that age. 16 year olds are not intelligent, as they only have the years of newborn-15 as life experience behind them. A grown up on the other hand knows exactly how it is to be 16 and how vulnerable someone are at that age, as they have already experienced it. Also talking about incels, I understand that some people feel sorry for them, but as a woman you are very vulnerable once you get pregnant, especially in todays world when we do no longer live in a pack (although we are pack animals) and therefor we need to pick very carefully. To then gamble and pick a man who does not speak to or about women with respect is a very risky bet that could have dangerous consequences. With that said, great work Andrew! ❤️😊
I’m thoroughly enjoying both of your channels but you do have something rather special with this one. Fantastic guests and wonderful conversations that make one hopeful for humanity. Thank you Andrew.
@@andrewgoldheretics it’s me that ought to be thankful to you. I have become a dedicated listener and I truly appreciate the work and effort that you put into this channel, your interviewing style is refreshing and quite remarkable, an absolute pleasure to watch you interact with your guests and your audience. I have found UA-cam is getting quite stale with the same old formats. You have opened up some wonderful discussions on many topics which I find fascinating. I may not always agree with every single viewpoint but I like to hear challenging ideas that broaden my perspective. Your genuine curiosity and eagerness to learn from others is what makes you special Andrew. I wish you every success in your future endeavours and I look forward to seeing the results. Congratulations on your engagement and upcoming marriage! Many thanks again. Allannah
Nina looked a bit defensive when you revealed your disdain for ‘modern art’. I wondered if what you were talking about was actually ‘postmodern art’. It is a form of artistic expression that questions the very paradigm of ‘what is art’ by deliberately not conforming to any of the traditional characteristics you’d associate with said form. I find this stuff annoying. It doesn’t inspire you, or tell you anything deep or transcendental about the human condition. It’s just satire - and not particularly clever either. I share your disdain, Andrew.
@@Theactivepsychos I’d say they played with existing genres and invented new ones. I believe there’s a difference between those artists you mentioned and, say, putting a urinal in an art gallery to cynically satire the paradigm of art. Each to their own I suppose
@@Lordofthewhyz but in the day Picasso and many other modern artists were labelled “insane” and their work “ugly” and “from a diseased mind”. A general critique of cubists read… “I have seen the work of insane persons confined in asylums who lean toward art, and I will say that the drawings of these insane artists are far superior to the alleged works of art I saw at the exhibition. “A futurist or cubist takes a canvas and throws on some green paint, then a daub of yellow and then of slush. Next he makes a few circles, smears all the colors together, adds a few straight lines and labels the whole ‘Broad and Chestnut Streets on a Sunday Afternoon.’ These so-called artists are beyond me.” Sound pretty close to what people say about modern art now. Did you ever see the huge shipping container in the Tate main turbine hall? Just a massive oversized one it took a few minutes to walk one end to the other. In the surface it was pointless and stupid and it felt almost like one was being conned as you walked trepidatiously into the pitch black, then you touch the end with an outstretched hand almost disappointed that that was it until you turned around and pitch black turned to illuminated. It’s was a play on perspective. I loved it so much.
@@TheactivepsychosI think you’re debating with an argument I haven’t put forward. I agree with what you’ve said. If it helps: I’m a fan of minimalist and abstract art. It plugs into the deep instincts we have around colour and form. What I dislike is art that seems to exist solely to send up art as a paradigm itself. And doing so with the self-righteous snootiness of a literary critic hell bent on deconstructing everything. I don’t believe art is purely subjective and relativist whereas a postmodernist believes it is and wants to entirely flatten that. I can go into that more if you like. But essentially this is my opinion - you’re welcome to have a different one.
We are run by narcissism and narcissists. That is the main issue that drives all the behaviors she describes. Manifestations of narcissism are all around us.
Naricisstic personality disorder is very real. It is found in maybe 2-10 people, out of every 100. But these disturbed people set the tone of society and have for all of human history. From Moses to Napoleon. Genghis Kahn to Adolf Hitler. But more insidious, is the childhood trauma caused by these people on their children. Who grow up dysfunctional irrational plagues on society themselves.
At age 63 I have come to the conclusion that I am a heretic🤫😑🤯 Ive been left leaning my entire life & a Pollyanna; I experienced being cancelled for making a comment about my observations of a cultural practice in the sector that I was employed by & that led me to question a lot of my beliefs. I am still left leaning but I am far more conservative in my beliefs now
I’m surprised why you don’t get why Jordan Peterson is getting involved in politics Andrew. Politics is instrumental in shaping how we live (particularly around health and well-being), yet psychology is fundamental in how we behave ~ sadly our politicians, when creating policy, too often ignore human psychology in favour of ideology.
The amount of gay people we have lost in the next generation, it actually is sad, the musicals we will never see, all thejoy they can being will now be lost to chemically castrated kids, sad day This pod cast is like watching a really good car show, the host knows what he's talking about, asking questions, learning,conversations, all the parts make sense and it all fits together..??Just easy normal logical conversations, no side no tribe just talking about facts and things we are constantly learning every day. This girl is smart asf lol I actually felt my iq go up a tiny bit watching this and taking the words in and making my own mind up, I gravitate towards the truth.
Fantastic podcast! In these increasingly polarized times we need more content like this. We truly need to listen and understand those who have different opinions to ourselves. It is so important to respect the views of others even if we don't agree with them.
Boy George’s new book is refreshing. He is a bit more relaxed in his self title as a “Geezer Gay”.. I’m almost scared to talk to a friend about the Trans rights realm because I truly believe in Women’s Safe Spaces (after attack) yet she seems to be deaf to such penis reality.
Nina Power a rare breed of journalist, although her main job is teaching. Balanced, thoughtful, interesting and listens as much as she expresses her own thoughts. We need more people like this, because the internet world has almost created an environment of no compromise , where people end up 'shouting' their opinions at each other ,but never really meet in the middle ground to discuss issues sensibly. As far as the masculinity thing goes I feel sorry for the young men growing up now because everything's seems to have shifted too far the other way. I'm not sure you can use Russell Grant as a yard stick for measuring that because if some of the things that have been said are true then that is clearly out of order. It's more to do with how do you approach a girl when you're a young adolescent and how young females act to that. Sexual attraction and the signalling that goes along with that is somewhat built into our make up evolutionary wise. As far as feminine toxicity goes I feel that these days its more to do with what girls permit a good lucking guy to get away with and what they put others down for and call them out. For instance being a bit awkward and commenting to a girl on how attractive you think her butt is or whatever. Is that seen as sexual harassment by one guy, but not another ? It's all about approach and for shy guys that found it difficult when I was growing up back in the day, I think the relationship landscape for them has become even more difficult. Great interview Andy.
Nina is bloody WONDERRUL. When she says about lack of humour, The Internet and anonymity "This is The ID speaking" (timestamp 25m30s - 25m59s) it recalls concept of the classic 1956 Sci-Fi film 'Forbidden Planet'. The Krell civilization had built a giant machine to turn all their needs & wishes into reality. The Krell citizens quickly destroyed each other and became extinct when the machine acted on their jealousies & hatreds, and created monsters which attacked everyone and destroyed everything. The Krell machine turn 'Monsters from The Id' into reality. Maybe we have made our own Krell Machine and set it in motion?
62 year old woman here. I think we're making men's sexuality "darker" by: 1) the lack of physical work they do and there physical play they are encouraged to engage in as children. Men need to have ways to use that testosterone! Our denigration of male physical strength may have helped tilt male sexuality towards an obsession with sex. Young men, in particular, need to take risks, to pit themselves against the elements, to take physical challenges. When you take these away from them and give them a sofa and and a computer this is the result! 2) We have largely destroyed the romantic narrative which men lived by as well as women. I remember men being very romantic. They had, on average, as much desire for a stable, loving relationship as women. They too were looking for "the one". The fact that they cheated, or roved, or that some were womanisers, does not disprove this. I suggest that the ritual of courting, helped channel/focus the male sexual urge - again chiselling the testosterone. 3) We have forgotten that sexual desire is primarily linked to the urge to reproduce, and therefore lost the narrative of young people looking for a mate...that is someone to have children with, and build and share your life with. Children are now an afterthought for those who have explore what we now call our sexuality! 4) We are increasingly obsessed with the notion of "sexuality" - a relatively new concept which began with our acceptance of gay attraction.But now the idea of "sexuality" encourages us to think of ourselves as separate units that need a sexual partner to fulfil certain roles for us. The act of sex which should be a coming together of two people, exploring feelings and sensations together, becomes an act of mutual masturbation. 5) We have denigrated the image of father. This means again that we have eliminated men's position as protectors, which I believe is another channelling of testosterone. Instead we are asking them to "mother" instead of asking them to be "tender". You do not have to "mother" to be warm and loving. 6) Additionally we have been pushing sex onto younger and younger kids. So-called "sex education" being part of this. I noticed by the year 2000 that boys and girls were engaging in sex before they had any real (on heat) desire. As parents we had become so sure that this was natural that we were in a sense encouraging it, thinking we were liberated and clever! The old fashioned barriers put up by parents and society at large, meant that kids only ventured into sexual relationships when the desire for one person was so great that they would climb fences to get to the object of desire. I would suggest here that unrequited love is an important stepping stone to maturity. 7) Lastly, and related to all the above, I feel that men's sexuality is becoming "darker" because we have forgotten the poetry and dance of love. Sentimental? Sentiment = feeling.
Love that you're doing these conversations, Andrew. Pure "Gold". Peter Boghossian is often in London and has been recently - you should totally do a convo with him, if you haven't already. Would absolutely love that.
I think, despite what most people would have you believe, that the 'righteous hate' thing is in most people but its the extent of how far and wide that hatred is that differentiates between real haters and people who hate bigotry. Personally, I took the time to listen to Jordan Peterson and while I don't agree with everything, I think he has a good heart and wants the best for people.
Your new channel is fantastic. These meaningful interviews whether I’m completely on board with yours, or your guest perspective, does certainly give me food for thought.
I did not know her , disagree with parts of what she said but definitely agree on the facts we have to acknowledge men and women differences, and that we need to keep our language around womanhood. also I am happy she talked about MAID in Canada, I think it's an important topic people should open their eyes about , but as usual it is taboo on the left to question it.
Very interesting listening to Nina. I don't remember where or when I learned this, that the reason a man's libido is stronger than a woman's generally speaking, is simply a matter of procreation. The fact that we all belong to the animal kingdom and are classified as mammals, the sexual drive of the male must be very strong in order to ensure the continuation of the species. Obviously different men have different drives and not to exclude what women want, I guess what I learned was, at best, a huge generalization? Andrew, in the gym shower don't consider yourself dainty, but rather more cultured and refined of manners. I work downtown, near a business park and campus and much construction. Why do men hock loogies? Because they have a need to do so. Most of the men I've encountered that do this are in mixed company and are discreet about it. But when men are in a group amongst themselves, their attitude and manner changes. They aquire a group mentality and feel safe to be themselves. Oddly I have never heard or seen a woman do this though. Andrew, within all of your travels including all of the people you've met and interviewed, I think you are a bit sheltered and that's not a bad thing. As for the curtains being open during the interview, I enjoyed watching the passersby. I thought it added to the ambience of the room. Looking forward to your next episode Andrew. Keep them coming I am enjoying all of these so far👍.
When you mention toxic Femininity I immediately think about the phenomenon of the last few years concerning angry women called “Karens”, who rage in markets, stores, parks and parking lots, yelling, harassing, striking out and even calling police to intimidate usually innocent and and bewildered other people.
that isn't toxic femininity you are describing , this 'phenomenon' that you call it is only new because the Left are out to portray white women of a certain age as entitled and very likely racist, so they push the idea with short out of context videos, these situations haven't become worse or more likely, they just push the idea it has just as a black woman can kick off and demand all sorts in shops but these are ignored. it is similar to the idea they are trying to push that it is a problem to be a straight white man, old, pale and stale as they say, if it was the other way round and we had a problem with older black men then it would rightly be seen as racist because it is. pushing the idea that all men or women of a particular colour acting in a negative way is racist toxic femininity is something else
The Russel Brand issue is that he currently came under attack in a co-ordinated attack from the media and elements of the government. This is the aspect of this event that I find extremely concerning!
But he doesn't have anything useful to say about anything whatsoever. He can argue to the death and win any debate and only convey a mental wasteland and intellectual nothingness.
The issue with Russel Brand was not just about him having sex with a 16 year old woman/girl. The allegation was that he forced himself on her when she said no, he continued. You have a conversation for several minutes about the age difference and power difference in the relationship, but you are missing the most important point, that it was an allegation of sexual assault (SA). And the allegations of SA, were not just with one woman and not just young women.
I really admire your emotional ways and feelings Andrew. You’re a wonderful guy and your channels are fascinating 😊let the others think what they want ❤❤❤
She is not right about what a simp means. It's a guy that will do whatever it takes to please a women, even let her walk over them. It's a guy that invests all his attention into a woman he wants but she would never date him. She might even use him because he'll willingly spend money on her hoping she'll reciprocate romantically.
That's the extreme form of simpery you explained. It just means showing excessive sympathy and attention to a person - usually a woman. You can simp for someone you're dating. Think men that are under the thumb for example. They would be called simps
@@FranklinGoodwin-rb7td ahh, those guys in relationships we used to say they are "pussy whipped". But the meaning must have changed. Don't Google it unless you are into pron. A completely different meaning now.
Andrew i have to say i watched all 3 streams from Heretics and i am very impressed these are the streams you should do much more of, Great guests/interesting/informative/entertaining i have subbed and look forward to more great content...Well done sir
Amazing Guest!! Wow. What a well read woman. .. Love that she see so many perspectives and makes no excuses for us women. Glad to see she wasn't going to throw Russel under the bus. ;) I was working and renting my own room in a shared house when I was 16... AGE is only a SMALL part of the CONTEXT - Context Matters. Russel Brand and his exploits - a pretty normal example pf the sort of relations going on in the 90's!
Fascinating interview thank you very much I find it interesting to consider the decline in the UK of the local public house , once a haven and a moral support network for many men, seems to be aligned with the decline in the happiness and contentedness of men and i think it had nothing to do with the consumption beer and more to do with mateship that is now lost.
Really appreciated the nuanced discussions in these 3 Heretic interviews. Here's a few questions for those into Purity Testing: If we can have an autism spectrum and a gender spectrum, why can't we have a spectrum for masculine and feminine as well? Is a man or woman who has gone through a toxic phase or made a toxic decision incapable of ever turning things around?
Nina is truly interesting. Really loved her insight, although not so sure on her position of Russell Brand if I’m honest. Her position on toxic femininity is pretty bang on.
Andrew, I can explain the snorting very easily. The water vapor gets into the sinuses and hydrates the phlegm, causing it to drain, so in order to stop the nose from running on their face, they snort to pull it back, or it starts draining down their throat and the body reacts to it as if it were a stoppage threat to the airways. It's not an overtly aggressive or macho thing, it's actually very benign. It only takes once of you not noticing your nose is running, then drying your face and smearing snot all over your face to make you want to NEVER have that happen again.
I grew up in the 90's and I was 17 in 1997 and the 2 boyfriends I had, one was 20 and one was 22. I thought all the boys in my school were immature and idiotic. I was mature for my age and wasn't into the gossip culture of high school. I was into literature, Broadway musicals, punk music, so I didn't mesh well with my classmates. I had my only child as a 20 year old, with the one who was 22 when I was 17. I was more mature than he was at that time too. That's why I don't get the whole thing of being hard on these guys from that time that slept with 16-20 year old women. It's not a popular opinion these days, but I think we were worlds away from the 16-20 year olds of today. I see the 16 year olds now and just can't believe how incapable they are and how unprepared they are to be adults. My daughter was a very mature 16 year old because I raised her that way, but on the whole teenagers now just act like 8 year olds in my eyes.
That's so messed up I'm of similar age to you and I only date older women, I found females around my age or a bit younger to be giggly, vapid and immature
A simp is a person who continues to be a vulnerable toward another continually without gaining the attention desired. The simp gives, but does not receive what they desire from another.
Super interesting interview and subject! I agree with Andrew, though - By dint of immaturity, the power of sexual attractiveness in a sixteen year old is wholly differently understood and negotiated by a sixteen year old than by a much older seducer. That awareness may be heightened in recent years, and cultures change for sure. But I find it hard to believe that mature adults don't know that very well in any era. Predatory people will always push boundaries, and I wouldn't go to lightly on them! To paraphrase Edmund Burke, all it takes for evil to prevail is for good (wo)men to do nothing!
Well it's hard to understand what sexuality is like in the opposite gender. It is, as far as I can discern, a VERY different experience in all forms. So the influence of an attractive young woman on a man is presumably not understandable for a woman. I've yet to meet a man who can articulate it for other men, let alone being able to explain it to a woman.
I love your material. So much widom and I'm learning so much. I am only waiting for you to do something on the growing idea of polyamory as something more natural to us than monogamy and the abuse that goes on in those circles and how it's pushed on others and monogamy is seen as toxic and abusive. In my view this ideology funtions very much in the same way as the cultish ideology around gender. The narrative is built and kept in much the same way. I'd really love to hear something on this subject.
Loved this conversation. Also: I can remember being a teen in the 90s... a randy 16 year old girl jumping into consenting relations with a charismatic, "older" man in a party situation would definitely have put a "stripe" on our epaulette (socially speaking). I see why some more sexually conservative people feel it's crazy, but if you're there to party, RB would have been a viable candidate for our serious attention. My dad would NOT have approved for us girls, but he was chasing the school nurse at 13, so la la la (hands over ears).
43:55 Nina has hit the nail on the head. The ideas about sex gender micro aggression toxic masculinity ripe (I is A) culture combined will lead to the kind of social conservatism and distancing from each other like it used to be a century ago in the states and more recently in Asia and all.
Men being together with men and women being together with women comes with its own dangers, though. Same sex workplaces tend to become uncomfortable (toxic or overly laddish), and especially young men in groups can become dangerous towards women, especially if the group members have skewed moral views.
It depends on a lot of factors: There's some industries eg child-care where women are exceptional working together or construction building where men thrive with the masculine environment without women. Some industries thrive with mixed groups eg some creative industries. It really depends and culture plays a role, unique make-up of people or business let alone industry. Put it this way mixing people forced abstract standards is not magically going to solve problems, it will probably cause more problems than it solves instead of an organic process that tends towards what works in a professional setting.
@@commentarytalk1446 I know. It would be useful to know what factors spoils what could be useful and good - in workplaces, social situations and in cultures as a whole.
@@mademoiselledusfonctionell1609 On initial thoughts alone, it is probably a case of "tacit knowledge", for example the creative industries that lean into the entertainment industries, there's inevitably going to be a lot of the people working together sleeping together in all sorts of combinations... it's probably a combination of the type of people, the nature of the work, the conditions of work (and play!) and the emotional energy of all the above... ! Can't see legislating for that ever working out.
@@commentarytalk1446 I meant more that we need to know what causes toxicity in different situations (such as if it is the case that one rotten apple actually can spoil the whole bunch, or if it is a matter of management strategy or managereal personality or whatever), male or female, to be able to prevent s-t from happening.
Has anyone else noticed how often women are getting the crap knocked out of them in movies, now? Not good. Usually they bounce right up and fight back and often win. That is mindbending.
As someone who's passionate about art, an artist myself and someone who's studied fine art in university, I'm fully on board with equating the majority of mainstream modern art to an MLM scheme... As a comparison it's spot on ! There's no appreciation for aesthetic in modern art, the quality of the artwork itself doesn't matter nearly as much as the "message" and how it's explained by the artist statement... And even then I'd argue that when you boil it down most modern art hasn't said anything conceptually new since Marcel Duchamp's "Fountain", which is basically just literal junk put in a gallery in order to question "what is art".... and that was made about 100 years ago! Overall I find modern art and the culture surrounding it extremely "wankey" for lack of a better word.. Oh yeah, and on top of all of that, it's no secret that a LOT of the most expensive art sold these days are by artist who's popularity and work is artificially inflated in value by the wealthy in order to store and launder money through the sale and trade of their "art"... Just like modern pop-stars, they're not real musicians and not real artists, they're all "manufactured". and just like it's difficult and risky to invest time and money in an actual band with genuine creative vision, it's the same with actual artist, that's why galleries are filled with modern "art" that's objectively so lazy looking, but the majority of people are kept quiet from admitting it, as it's hidden behind a facade of "if you don't get it it's because you're not sophisticated enough"... it's a very similar phenomenon to the one explored in the "The Emperor's New Clothes" tale, where no one points out something everyone can clearly see...
41:10 What a nice modern way to say, ‘She must’ve wanted it.’ “Maybe 16 meant something different in the 90’s.” No, it always meant the same thing. A 16yo has always been and always will be a 16yo. There will always be grown people telling u that their desires are more of a priority than the needs of any dependent child. These adults know that they are slacking for their age group, but a small child will be so impressed that u have ur own room and money to spend, things that they will vastly surpass in less than a decade of their own lives.
"A 16yo has always been and always will be a 16yo." -- The rate at which children mature varies widely with culture and circumstances. This is settled social science. Even the age of sexual maturity is strongly affected by environment.
I like Nina's viewpoints. We all have faults, and the World isn't just black & white. That's why I can't accept the strict P.C. views that we see on both the Left and Right. I have never had so little trust in the Authrorities, the Media and the "Influencers" as I have now, and probably won't vote again...There is noone worth voting for.😑 I really enjoy your Heretics series, I think I am in that category, too. 😉
'Simp' doesn't mean "someone who's polite to women", and men should avoid women who understand it to mean that, because they have a very warped view of what women are entitled to. A 'simp' a man who allows himself to be taken advantage of. He ascribes women superior value and quality, and will sacrifice his dignity, principles, money, time, and anything else he might have, in service of one or several women, often in the hopes of attracting their attention. The most primitive form of simp would be a man who ends up spending all his savings on an OnlyFans girl, in the hope and belief that it might lead to a relationship with her. A less obvious simp would be a man who takes on all gentlemanly virtues, even with women who have no ladylike virtues, won't treat him as a gentleman should be treated, nor will reciprocate in any other way. In short, a 'simp' is a self-made simpleton. Any woman who considers simp behavior to be mere politeness, i.e. perfectly reasonable treatment of women, is lethally dangerous, and will ruin a man's life.
That was very interesting! I really relate to your feeling Andrew of feeling like a different species amongst other men. I've experienced that very same thing in gyms. Its everywhere to be honest, especially in tradesmen too. I've notice everytime I have to get someone in to do something I always feel like I'm dealing with some kind of knuckle dragging caveman and that's not me. I'm respectful (I hope), don't use bad language, will not talk about women in a derogatory way etc etc. I don't have any male friends because of this, I find almost all men I come across to be idiots!
I watched your video with Graham Linehan ( the IT Crowd, I don't know if thats his name?) He is a really good person and I totally agree with him and your interview technique really helped the topic so I subscribed. You sold me on this one before you even finished talking.
adding to the shower thing. Why do men playing sports always spit. I sort of under stand while running hard but standing on the sidelines and spitting is just disgusting. Not manly, kinda gross.
Andrew, i laughed so hard at your description of what men do in the shower 😂 I'm not a very feminine woman and often feel the same, that other women are a yotally different species to me that i just dont understand. (On the other hand, my husband can sometimes be like these men you describe and he also seems like another species 😂).
I'm sorry. I'm a bit older. But I have always liked masculine men. They DO have a soft side, which is very sexy. But I like feeling safe. Maybe someone will think twice when they see a size 13 shoe sitting at the front door? If I wanted something feminine, I'd probably be interested in girls. I think men should be men. Intelligence in a man is also extremely sexy to me. A man doesn't have to be drop dead gorgeous if he is super smart or clever. My first husband was extremely intelligent. My second hubby was more masculine and rough. But I know they both loved me. I could easily have been happy with either. The issues with the smart one, had nothing to do with him being smart. I learned a LOT. His child, my 1st born, is 2 pts under a genius! I have 3 and they are all as equally as wonderful as the other in their own unique ways. I dont think we should be messing with biology at all. People should be born being proud of and loving who they are. Idk what's going on anymore.
Her understanding of alpha vs. beta is lacking, and her definition of simp is false. Perhaps a juvenile would use the word as she defines it, but all "simp" means is a man who gives undue attention to a woman he has no relation to. Simping isn't buying a girl a coffee to get her attention, it's repeatedly buying her coffee after she has categorically rejected you in the hopes she might change her mind: she won't and you're simply wasting time and money. Alpha is a simplification of the term "High-Value Man," which can be broken down into categories; capacity for violence; physical fitness, wealth; disagreeability. That's not a conclusive list, but "Alphas" will fall into at least one of these categories.
Do you agree that it is dark to be a man? And what of incels and Jordan Peterson and toxic femininity? Hit like, share and comment below!
Men die earlier than women on average. I think women are catching up though, the more and more they want to be like men.
I think that what is called 'toxic masculinity', on examination, is usually very immature masculine behaviour. Probably the same for whatever behaviour is ascribed to 'toxic femininity'. It is adults behaving as if they never left the school yard.
I don't know Jordan Peterson, but it sounds cool to get him on here. Cause now I want to know about this guy 😅
Btw, just finished watching all 3 videos here, I watched in the order of number 3-1-2 and I really like your new channel. Well done! Keep the interviews coming 🤗
I find Jordan Peterson a strange character, there is something that is part gut instinct about my feelings about him. When I've heard him speak in certain videos where he's started crying I've always felt there was a performative element and an insincerity about him.
I'm willing to concede I could be wrong, it's not like I've met him in person to really get to know him but he to my mind fits the bill of someone who is a grifter, he's all about Jordan Peterson and the cult of Jordan Peterson. He seems to revel in being provocative and there are areas where I find myself in agreement with him but I often find his way of engaging on topics needlessly abrasive.
I think he is clearly an intelligent guy and has left many people who try to gotcha him look a bit silly. I've also seen him in some longer form debates just come across intentionally vague and needlessly wordy to leave himself the wiggle room of not being tied to something he's implied when challenged on it.
It's probably unfair to blame him for the way his cult like followers defend him and attack people on social media when criticised but it doesn't help. Which is somewhat ironic as he's not entirely wrong on the censorious nature of a certain section of at least slightly left leaning parts of modern culture and as I said whilst I'm skeptical of him and think he spews a lot of word salad and plenty questionable statements he at least sometimes has points worth considering and it's always better have rigorous public debate rather than sacred views that can't be challenged.
@@Malky5279 There's definitely a cult following of the man. I think he speaks a lot of ambiguity in his words. I think he does try to stand up for the so called incels today or at least make them think he is on their side if nobody is. Whether he really is, that's another story.
My grandmother was a flapper, the 1920s version of a “liberated woman”. I remember in the 1960s and 70s, in the early days of the “sexual revolution” and the rise of feminism, hearing her say that no matter what we thought about those things, it was still only the women who get pregnant. I think about that when people claim that gender differences are merely social constructs.
yup, it seems women resent that men can't get pregnant and somehow blame men for biology sometimes
Respectfully, that is a moronic argument. Nobody is saying that "men" in the sense you mean can give birth. You are intentionally pretending they are so that you can point to a caricature and call it stupid.
She's right but also for a population of women, the experience of a women's LIFE-CYCLE is fundamentally VERY different to a man's: What priorities and goals how her behaviour will change at different stages it's all affected: Not only is being pregnant coming with medical condition during term, but for the next 20+ years there's the nurturing of a growing human (eg pre-frontal cortex in brain carries on developing in early-20s for example...).
What we see in West is an attempt to shape men and women to the economic system instead of what is better: To shape the economy to the biology of men and women eg family focus for a major example. Put that way the idea of gender equalization at work is a form of insanity...
The strangest thing is how birth control broke families. No one saw that coming.
I've heard people, women talk about the sexual liberation of the 1960s it was only for men, it just meant women were pressured for sex and abused more and younger because they could get away with it more easily as there was less fear of say making a teenage girl pregnant, no one listens to women and girls especially not those in authority but you can't deny a pregnancy
Well I’ve just done 3 heretics in a row 😂
I very much enjoyed Nina’s perspective on many things and agree that women can be very toxic in a variety of ways.
The only thing I disagreed with her on was her saying the 16yr old that dated RB had a lot of power in the relationship.
I’ve been a 16 yr old in love and an almost 5 yr relationship (started at 14 yrs) He was 17yrs old and well known here. He treated me like a princess but I was immature which I didn’t think so at the time. I always did whatever he wanted to do, not because he made me but because I wanted to.
I guarantee the 16yr old with RB was happy just to be with him and she did not have the same power because she was not mature enough to use any. Just because your body is able to have sex with a 31yr old, it doesn’t mean your brain is able to deal with an adult relationship.
Love your new channel! ❤
I agree with you on all counts ! Thanks!
My initial reaction was to think that the age gap was WAY to big and that RB was obviously taking advantage of a more naive and possibly vulnerable person (which may well have been the case) but I do think that Nina's point here about 16 meaning something slightly differnt in the 90's and teenagers feeling more sexual agency at that time is very accurate (not to say that's a good or bad thing). Im talking here as someone that went to a co-ed comprehensive school at that time. We seem to look back at the past through the eyes today with out any context. Nina's points about the culture/hedonism of the 90's i think is very valid here and i dont beleive she was in any way trying to excuse RB's behaviour.
@@Benalt998 I don’t think she was excusing RB’s behaviour either.
I happen to have the insight of a 16yr old in a sexual relationship and there’s absolutely no way I had or any of us had the maturity that our bodies had.
Of course we like to think we know everything at that age 😀 but if anyone looks back at themselves as a 16yr old, we would all come to the same conclusion, that we are smarter, much more mature and able to deal with the opposite sex in a better way.
Well said. A person at 16 does not have the experience to see where their decisions may lead them. Totally agree that girls who have sex may not learn enough about themselves through this time and need to experience self-awareness, and I suspect boys are the same. 16 year old with a man on his 30s may be excited about it, but she definitely would not have power in the relationship.
@@dbentleyto95 I would agree with you too on the 16yr old boys. I’d love to hear a male perspective from someone looking back to how they felt at that age if they were sexually active.
When I was writing my experience about getting into a relationship at age 14 yrs. I kept thinking back to Andrew doing that Elvis episode and repeating 14 will get ya 20 😂😂
I love your new channel. It takes a lot of humility and courage to be a heretic. The world needs more people that are willing to change their mind. This is a great way to share ideas in an open civilized way.
What an enlightening interview. Nina finds perspective without judgment. I like how deeply analytical she responded to your (quite brilliant) questions were.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Smashing interview Andrew. I am an old lefty who believes in supporting each other and judging folks on the content of their character rather than a characteristic (colour, sexual preference etc). The leftist (new left) point of view, I can't get on board with because it feels like fascism. The left used to be about consensus the new left feels like it's about celebrating victimhood, group think and I just don't feel comfortable with where it's gone.
I 100% agree with you xXx
...and the left has abandoned its main role...interrogating, power, wealth and class. This obsession with identity has caused it to act in a fascist way.
The term leftist has been hijacked by the fascists. There is nothig left wing about the woke reactionary fascism we are witnessing. It's a corporatist agenda
I agree whole-heartedly with you. This movement has left a lot of us feeling politically quite homeless.
“In Scripture, the enemy is often called diabolos throughout the New Testament, a Greek word derived from two words: dia, meaning apart, and balien, meaning to throw. To refer to the devil is to quite literally acknowledge him as the one who throws us apart, the one who scatters, the one who divides.”
Love Nina’s perspective, absolutely fascinating. I’m definitely going to buy her book. Thank you for the introduction Andrew & for the laughs about your experience in the men’s changing room!!! 😂
I can’t say that I relate to the idea that having sex with an older man is empowering. She definitely does not speak for all of us. And we can object to dirty old men preying on teenage girls without locking everyone into sex segregated schools and institutions. All female spaces can encourage terrifying levels of female aggression towards non conformist girls and women, and a lot of us feel safer when the sexes are more mixed. We can have sex segregated bathrooms without segregating everything else in society. I don’t want to live in Saudi Arabia.
Agree, I don’t personally find it empowering, nor did I have that experience, thank god, but I do remember the need to feel wanted and important at 16, so I can imagine that it would be easy for some girls to think they could get that from an older guy.
When father's are parentally engaged with their daughters, they are less vulnerable to seeking out the attention of much older men
Is not empowering, you are actually losing power because you are more naive, less experienced, more excited to feel things so you act on a rush... You are easily controlled and manipulated, that is the contrary of being empowered.
Perhaps it might not be possible to separate biologically female student rest rooms. I think that ship has sailed. Furthermore, the young men may benefit from such single-sex schools, and they are the ones falling behind, at least here in the States.
For each their own. I always preferred older man, I found them more sophisticated sexually; they already know themselves and the world; they have wisdom and experience.
Nina is fascinating, strong, learned, opinionated, thoughtful, independent, self-assured, presents her thoughts and ideas very well, very clearly, gives me lots to think about. And with a pleasant neutral voice, no preachiness, no convincing impulse or tone. This is the first I've seen her or heard of her, so thanks Andrew for having her on.
34:12 real-time pondering (one of many examples)
I don’t think it’s fair to point out how a 16 year old have the power to sexually seduce grown ups, especially talking about a girl who claims that she’s been raped and groomed at that age. 16 year olds are not intelligent, as they only have the years of newborn-15 as life experience behind them. A grown up on the other hand knows exactly how it is to be 16 and how vulnerable someone are at that age, as they have already experienced it.
Also talking about incels, I understand that some people feel sorry for them, but as a woman you are very vulnerable once you get pregnant, especially in todays world when we do no longer live in a pack (although we are pack animals) and therefor we need to pick very carefully. To then gamble and pick a man who does not speak to or about women with respect is a very risky bet that could have dangerous consequences. With that said, great work Andrew! ❤️😊
I’m thoroughly enjoying both of your channels but you do have something rather special with this one. Fantastic guests and wonderful conversations that make one hopeful for humanity. Thank you Andrew.
Wow, thank you!
@@andrewgoldheretics it’s me that ought to be thankful to you. I have become a dedicated listener and I truly appreciate the work and effort that you put into this channel, your interviewing style is refreshing and quite remarkable, an absolute pleasure to watch you interact with your guests and your audience.
I have found UA-cam is getting quite stale with the same old formats. You have opened up some wonderful discussions on many topics which I find fascinating. I may not always agree with every single viewpoint but I like to hear challenging ideas that broaden my perspective.
Your genuine curiosity and eagerness to learn from others is what makes you special Andrew. I wish you every success in your future endeavours and I look forward to seeing the results.
Congratulations on your engagement and upcoming marriage!
Many thanks again.
Allannah
LOVED it
Nina looked a bit defensive when you revealed your disdain for ‘modern art’. I wondered if what you were talking about was actually ‘postmodern art’. It is a form of artistic expression that questions the very paradigm of ‘what is art’ by deliberately not conforming to any of the traditional characteristics you’d associate with said form. I find this stuff annoying. It doesn’t inspire you, or tell you anything deep or transcendental about the human condition. It’s just satire - and not particularly clever either. I share your disdain, Andrew.
Me too! It's also not linked to talent.
You’d have complained about monet, van gogh, Picasso and Klimt, at their time, in that case.
@@Theactivepsychos I’d say they played with existing genres and invented new ones. I believe there’s a difference between those artists you mentioned and, say, putting a urinal in an art gallery to cynically satire the paradigm of art. Each to their own I suppose
@@Lordofthewhyz but in the day Picasso and many other modern artists were labelled “insane” and their work “ugly” and “from a diseased mind”.
A general critique of cubists read…
“I have seen the work of insane persons confined in asylums who lean toward art, and I will say that the drawings of these insane artists are far superior to the alleged works of art I saw at the exhibition.
“A futurist or cubist takes a canvas and throws on some green paint, then a daub of yellow and then of slush. Next he makes a few circles, smears all the colors together, adds a few straight lines and labels the whole ‘Broad and Chestnut Streets on a Sunday Afternoon.’
These so-called artists are beyond me.”
Sound pretty close to what people say about modern art now.
Did you ever see the huge shipping container in the Tate main turbine hall? Just a massive oversized one it took a few minutes to walk one end to the other. In the surface it was pointless and stupid and it felt almost like one was being conned as you walked trepidatiously into the pitch black, then you touch the end with an outstretched hand almost disappointed that that was it until you turned around and pitch black turned to illuminated. It’s was a play on perspective. I loved it so much.
@@TheactivepsychosI think you’re debating with an argument I haven’t put forward. I agree with what you’ve said.
If it helps: I’m a fan of minimalist and abstract art. It plugs into the deep instincts we have around colour and form. What I dislike is art that seems to exist solely to send up art as a paradigm itself. And doing so with the self-righteous snootiness of a literary critic hell bent on deconstructing everything. I don’t believe art is purely subjective and relativist whereas a postmodernist believes it is and wants to entirely flatten that. I can go into that more if you like. But essentially this is my opinion - you’re welcome to have a different one.
Loved spending my day with Andrew Gold interviews
We are run by narcissism and narcissists. That is the main issue that drives all the behaviors she describes. Manifestations of narcissism are all around us.
Naricisstic personality disorder is very real. It is found in maybe 2-10 people, out of every 100. But these disturbed people set the tone of society and have for all of human history. From Moses to Napoleon. Genghis Kahn to Adolf Hitler. But more insidious, is the childhood trauma caused by these people on their children. Who grow up dysfunctional irrational plagues on society themselves.
Another wonderful guest .
I enjoyed listening to your conversation.
Nina is another great intellectual 😊
At age 63 I have come to the conclusion that I am a heretic🤫😑🤯 Ive been left leaning my entire life & a Pollyanna; I experienced being cancelled for making a comment about my observations of a cultural practice in the sector that I was employed by & that led me to question a lot of my beliefs. I am still left leaning but I am far more conservative in my beliefs now
Or the modern left has turned terrifyingly fascist. I believe that has happened. I never trust people without a sense of humor.
Fascinating chat. She's a breath of fresh air. Thanks.
I’m surprised why you don’t get why Jordan Peterson is getting involved in politics Andrew. Politics is instrumental in shaping how we live (particularly around health and well-being), yet psychology is fundamental in how we behave ~ sadly our politicians, when creating policy, too often ignore human psychology in favour of ideology.
The amount of gay people we have lost in the next generation, it actually is sad, the musicals we will never see, all thejoy they can being will now be lost to chemically castrated kids, sad day This pod cast is like watching a really good car show, the host knows what he's talking about, asking questions, learning,conversations, all the parts make sense and it all fits together..??Just easy normal logical conversations, no side no tribe just talking about facts and things we are constantly learning every day. This girl is smart asf lol I actually felt my iq go up a tiny bit watching this and taking the words in and making my own mind up, I gravitate towards the truth.
Creativity is banned now anyway, in the name of ideology. But I see what you’re saying. It’s a crying shame.
Fantastic podcast! In these increasingly polarized times we need more content like this. We truly need to listen and understand those who have different opinions to ourselves. It is so important to respect the views of others even if we don't agree with them.
You cheeky bugger, all this secret content you’ve had up your sleeve! Love it
More to come!
@@andrewgoldheretics keep it coming! Give Simon Whistler a run for his money!
Boy George’s new book is refreshing. He is a bit more relaxed in his self title as a “Geezer Gay”.. I’m almost scared to talk to a friend about the Trans rights realm because I truly believe in Women’s Safe Spaces (after attack) yet she seems to be deaf to such penis reality.
"penis reality" I really like that ...
Nina Power a rare breed of journalist, although her main job is teaching. Balanced, thoughtful, interesting and listens as much as she expresses her own thoughts. We need more people like this, because the internet world has almost created an environment of no compromise , where people end up 'shouting' their opinions at each other ,but never really meet in the middle ground to discuss issues sensibly.
As far as the masculinity thing goes I feel sorry for the young men growing up now because everything's seems to have shifted too far the other way. I'm not sure you can use Russell Grant as a yard stick for measuring that because if some of the things that have been said are true then that is clearly out of order. It's more to do with how do you approach a girl when you're a young adolescent and how young females act to that. Sexual attraction and the signalling that goes along with that is somewhat built into our make up evolutionary wise.
As far as feminine toxicity goes I feel that these days its more to do with what girls permit a good lucking guy to get away with and what they put others down for and call them out. For instance being a bit awkward and commenting to a girl on how attractive you think her butt is or whatever. Is that seen as sexual harassment by one guy, but not another ? It's all about approach and for shy guys that found it difficult when I was growing up back in the day, I think the relationship landscape for them has become even more difficult.
Great interview Andy.
Nina is bloody WONDERRUL. When she says about lack of humour, The Internet and anonymity "This is The ID speaking" (timestamp 25m30s - 25m59s) it recalls concept of the classic 1956 Sci-Fi film 'Forbidden Planet'. The Krell civilization had built a giant machine to turn all their needs & wishes into reality. The Krell citizens quickly destroyed each other and became extinct when the machine acted on their jealousies & hatreds, and created monsters which attacked everyone and destroyed everything. The Krell machine turn 'Monsters from The Id' into reality. Maybe we have made our own Krell Machine and set it in motion?
62 year old woman here.
I think we're making men's sexuality "darker" by:
1) the lack of physical work they do and there physical play they are encouraged to engage in as children. Men need to have ways to use that testosterone! Our denigration of male physical strength may have helped tilt male sexuality towards an obsession with sex. Young men, in particular, need to take risks, to pit themselves against the elements, to take physical challenges. When you take these away from them and give them a sofa and and a computer this is the result!
2) We have largely destroyed the romantic narrative which men lived by as well as women. I remember men being very romantic. They had, on average, as much desire for a stable, loving relationship as women. They too were looking for "the one". The fact that they cheated, or roved, or that some were womanisers, does not disprove this.
I suggest that the ritual of courting, helped channel/focus the male sexual urge - again chiselling the testosterone.
3) We have forgotten that sexual desire is primarily linked to the urge to reproduce, and therefore lost the narrative of young people looking for a mate...that is someone to have children with, and build and share your life with. Children are now an afterthought for those who have explore what we now call our sexuality!
4) We are increasingly obsessed with the notion of "sexuality" - a relatively new concept which began with our acceptance of gay attraction.But now the idea of "sexuality" encourages us to think of ourselves as separate units that need a sexual partner to fulfil certain roles for us. The act of sex which should be a coming together of two people, exploring feelings and sensations together, becomes an act of mutual masturbation.
5) We have denigrated the image of father. This means again that we have eliminated men's position as protectors, which I believe is another channelling of testosterone. Instead we are asking them to "mother" instead of asking them to be "tender". You do not have to "mother" to be warm and loving.
6) Additionally we have been pushing sex onto younger and younger kids. So-called "sex education" being part of this.
I noticed by the year 2000 that boys and girls were engaging in sex before they had any real (on heat) desire. As parents we had become so sure that this was natural that we were in a sense encouraging it, thinking we were liberated and clever! The old fashioned barriers put up by parents and society at large, meant that kids only ventured into sexual relationships when the desire for one person was so great that they would climb fences to get to the object of desire. I would suggest here that unrequited love is an important stepping stone to maturity.
7) Lastly, and related to all the above, I feel that men's sexuality is becoming "darker" because we have forgotten the poetry and dance of love.
Sentimental? Sentiment = feeling.
This new channel is so good and a breath of fresh air amidtst all the ambiant politically-correct nonsense !! Looking forward to the next interviews
thanks! tell your friends haha :D
Love that you're doing these conversations, Andrew. Pure "Gold". Peter Boghossian is often in London and has been recently - you should totally do a convo with him, if you haven't already. Would absolutely love that.
Already done. Out Saturday :)
I think, despite what most people would have you believe, that the 'righteous hate' thing is in most people but its the extent of how far and wide that hatred is that differentiates between real haters and people who hate bigotry. Personally, I took the time to listen to Jordan Peterson and while I don't agree with everything, I think he has a good heart and wants the best for people.
Thanks Andrew, excellent interview and good to see the channel doing well 😀 Id recommend closing the curtains though.. its a bit distracting!
Your new channel is fantastic. These meaningful interviews whether I’m completely on board with yours, or your guest perspective, does certainly give me food for thought.
Thank goodness! An invigorating channel, Andrew.
Really interesting conversation & sharing of ideas by 2 intelligent people. A refreshing change!
I did not know her , disagree with parts of what she said but definitely agree on the facts we have to acknowledge men and women differences, and that we need to keep our language around womanhood. also I am happy she talked about MAID in Canada, I think it's an important topic people should open their eyes about , but as usual it is taboo on the left to question it.
My fav episode so far! I hate men doing annoying noises, thank God it was finally mentioned.
I never knew they did that
Very interesting listening to Nina. I don't remember where or when I learned this, that the reason a man's libido is stronger than a woman's generally speaking, is simply a matter of procreation. The fact that we all belong to the animal kingdom and are classified as mammals, the sexual drive of the male must be very strong in order to ensure the continuation of the species. Obviously different men have different drives and not to exclude what women want, I guess what I learned was, at best, a huge generalization?
Andrew, in the gym shower don't consider yourself dainty, but rather more cultured and refined of manners. I work downtown, near a business park and campus and much construction. Why do men hock loogies? Because they have a need to do so. Most of the men I've encountered that do this are in mixed company and are discreet about it. But when men are in a group amongst themselves, their attitude and manner changes. They aquire a group mentality and feel safe to be themselves. Oddly I have never heard or seen a woman do this though. Andrew, within all of your travels including all of the people you've met and interviewed, I think you are a bit sheltered and that's not a bad thing. As for the curtains being open during the interview, I enjoyed watching the passersby. I thought it added to the ambience of the room. Looking forward to your next episode Andrew. Keep them coming I am enjoying all of these so far👍.
When you mention toxic Femininity I immediately think about the phenomenon of the last few years concerning angry women called “Karens”, who rage in markets, stores, parks and parking lots, yelling, harassing, striking out and even calling police to intimidate usually innocent and and bewildered other people.
that isn't toxic femininity you are describing , this 'phenomenon' that you call it is only new because the Left are out to portray white women of a certain age as entitled and very likely racist, so they push the idea with short out of context videos, these situations haven't become worse or more likely, they just push the idea it has just as a black woman can kick off and demand all sorts in shops but these are ignored. it is similar to the idea they are trying to push that it is a problem to be a straight white man, old, pale and stale as they say, if it was the other way round and we had a problem with older black men then it would rightly be seen as racist because it is. pushing the idea that all men or women of a particular colour acting in a negative way is racist
toxic femininity is something else
The Russel Brand issue is that he currently came under attack in a co-ordinated attack from the media and elements of the government. This is the aspect of this event that I find extremely concerning!
But he doesn't have anything useful to say about anything whatsoever. He can argue to the death and win any debate and only convey a mental wasteland and intellectual nothingness.
Hi Andrew ♥
This subject was so interesting and refreshing.
Thank you Andrew ♥
Omg who is this woman ? and where has she been all my life? I’m now going to hoover up everything I can find out about her. 🥰
The issue with Russel Brand was not just about him having sex with a 16 year old woman/girl. The allegation was that he forced himself on her when she said no, he continued. You have a conversation for several minutes about the age difference and power difference in the relationship, but you are missing the most important point, that it was an allegation of sexual assault (SA). And the allegations of SA, were not just with one woman and not just young women.
I really admire your emotional ways and feelings Andrew. You’re a wonderful guy and your channels are fascinating 😊let the others think what they want ❤❤❤
Absolutely loved this podcast . Nina is so clever , funny . Great interview. Thank You x
She is not right about what a simp means. It's a guy that will do whatever it takes to please a women, even let her walk over them. It's a guy that invests all his attention into a woman he wants but she would never date him. She might even use him because he'll willingly spend money on her hoping she'll reciprocate romantically.
That's the extreme form of simpery you explained. It just means showing excessive sympathy and attention to a person - usually a woman. You can simp for someone you're dating. Think men that are under the thumb for example. They would be called simps
@@FranklinGoodwin-rb7td ahh, those guys in relationships we used to say they are "pussy whipped". But the meaning must have changed. Don't Google it unless you are into pron. A completely different meaning now.
Never heard of NIna before and really really enjoyed this one thankyou!
Andrew i have to say i watched all 3 streams from Heretics and i am very impressed these are the streams you should do much more of, Great guests/interesting/informative/entertaining i have subbed and look forward to more great content...Well done sir
Amazing Guest!! Wow. What a well read woman. .. Love that she see so many perspectives and makes no excuses for us women. Glad to see she wasn't going to throw Russel under the bus. ;)
I was working and renting my own room in a shared house when I was 16... AGE is only a SMALL part of the CONTEXT - Context Matters.
Russel Brand and his exploits - a pretty normal example pf the sort of relations going on in the 90's!
Fascinating interview thank you very much
I find it interesting to consider the decline in the UK of the local public house , once a haven and a moral support network for many men, seems to be aligned with the decline in the happiness and contentedness of men and i think it had nothing to do with the consumption beer and more to do with mateship that is now lost.
I like this topic you’re diving deeply into the “ identity nonsense! “ I’m going to borrow that ! Thank You
Really appreciated the nuanced discussions in these 3 Heretic interviews. Here's a few questions for those into Purity Testing:
If we can have an autism spectrum and a gender spectrum, why can't we have a spectrum for masculine and feminine as well? Is a man or woman who has gone through a toxic phase or made a toxic decision incapable of ever turning things around?
Keep it coming Andrew, you just made my morning as my boxing class was cancelled -
🥊
Nina is truly interesting. Really loved her insight, although not so sure on her position of Russell Brand if I’m honest. Her position on toxic femininity is pretty bang on.
Division is killing us ,great broadcast love it 🇬🇧👏👏👏🤩
So bizarre the term Toxic Femininity... it's a reaction. A very mild one.
Andrew, I can explain the snorting very easily. The water vapor gets into the sinuses and hydrates the phlegm, causing it to drain, so in order to stop the nose from running on their face, they snort to pull it back, or it starts draining down their throat and the body reacts to it as if it were a stoppage threat to the airways. It's not an overtly aggressive or macho thing, it's actually very benign. It only takes once of you not noticing your nose is running, then drying your face and smearing snot all over your face to make you want to NEVER have that happen again.
I grew up in the 90's and I was 17 in 1997 and the 2 boyfriends I had, one was 20 and one was 22. I thought all the boys in my school were immature and idiotic. I was mature for my age and wasn't into the gossip culture of high school. I was into literature, Broadway musicals, punk music, so I didn't mesh well with my classmates. I had my only child as a 20 year old, with the one who was 22 when I was 17. I was more mature than he was at that time too. That's why I don't get the whole thing of being hard on these guys from that time that slept with 16-20 year old women. It's not a popular opinion these days, but I think we were worlds away from the 16-20 year olds of today. I see the 16 year olds now and just can't believe how incapable they are and how unprepared they are to be adults. My daughter was a very mature 16 year old because I raised her that way, but on the whole teenagers now just act like 8 year olds in my eyes.
That's so messed up I'm of similar age to you and I only date older women, I found females around my age or a bit younger to be giggly, vapid and immature
It can be just dark being a human being. The constant battle of what we instinctively want to do and what modern society allows us to do.
A simp is a person who continues to be a vulnerable toward another continually without gaining the attention desired. The simp gives, but does not receive what they desire from another.
Thought that was a gimp
Super interesting interview and subject! I agree with Andrew, though - By dint of immaturity, the power of sexual attractiveness in a sixteen year old is wholly differently understood and negotiated by a sixteen year old than by a much older seducer. That awareness may be heightened in recent years, and cultures change for sure. But I find it hard to believe that mature adults don't know that very well in any era. Predatory people will always push boundaries, and I wouldn't go to lightly on them! To paraphrase Edmund Burke, all it takes for evil to prevail is for good (wo)men to do nothing!
Well it's hard to understand what sexuality is like in the opposite gender. It is, as far as I can discern, a VERY different experience in all forms.
So the influence of an attractive young woman on a man is presumably not understandable for a woman. I've yet to meet a man who can articulate it for other men, let alone being able to explain it to a woman.
This was a great conversation❤
Glad l found this site . I thought it was just me getting old
I always wondered who was in Sesame Street's Big Bird costume...thank you for the revelatory thumbnail.
I love your material. So much widom and I'm learning so much. I am only waiting for you to do something on the growing idea of polyamory as something more natural to us than monogamy and the abuse that goes on in those circles and how it's pushed on others and monogamy is seen as toxic and abusive. In my view this ideology funtions very much in the same way as the cultish ideology around gender. The narrative is built and kept in much the same way. I'd really love to hear something on this subject.
13:45 saying that state assisted medical suicide is "basically eugenics" is the dumbest statement
It takes a very manly man to declare that he wants to be dainty 🤣
I was really impressed with Nina's knowledge of Malevich's Black Square painting.
Same, and I had put my foot in it!
This interview is FANTASTIC. Nina Power is brilliant. I love this channel.
Loss of masculinity? The rise of hyper masculinity has been alarming. Do you live on the same planet?
What does hyper masculinity mean?
Loved this conversation. Also: I can remember being a teen in the 90s... a randy 16 year old girl jumping into consenting relations with a charismatic, "older" man in a party situation would definitely have put a "stripe" on our epaulette (socially speaking). I see why some more sexually conservative people feel it's crazy, but if you're there to party, RB would have been a viable candidate for our serious attention. My dad would NOT have approved for us girls, but he was chasing the school nurse at 13, so la la la (hands over ears).
43:55 Nina has hit the nail on the head. The ideas about sex gender micro aggression toxic masculinity ripe (I is A) culture combined will lead to the kind of social conservatism and distancing from each other like it used to be a century ago in the states and more recently in Asia and all.
Men being together with men and women being together with women
comes with its own dangers, though.
Same sex workplaces tend to become uncomfortable (toxic or overly laddish),
and especially young men in groups can become dangerous towards women,
especially if the group members have skewed moral views.
It depends on a lot of factors: There's some industries eg child-care where women are exceptional working together or construction building where men thrive with the masculine environment without women. Some industries thrive with mixed groups eg some creative industries.
It really depends and culture plays a role, unique make-up of people or business let alone industry.
Put it this way mixing people forced abstract standards is not magically going to solve problems, it will probably cause more problems than it solves instead of an organic process that tends towards what works in a professional setting.
@@commentarytalk1446 I know. It would be useful to know what factors spoils what could be useful and good - in workplaces, social situations and in cultures as a whole.
@@mademoiselledusfonctionell1609 On initial thoughts alone, it is probably a case of "tacit knowledge", for example the creative industries that lean into the entertainment industries, there's inevitably going to be a lot of the people working together sleeping together in all sorts of combinations... it's probably a combination of the type of people, the nature of the work, the conditions of work (and play!) and the emotional energy of all the above... ! Can't see legislating for that ever working out.
@@commentarytalk1446 I meant more that we need to know what causes toxicity in different situations (such as if it is the case that one rotten apple actually can spoil the whole bunch, or if it is a matter of management strategy or managereal personality or whatever), male or female, to be able to prevent s-t from happening.
Another fantastic conversation 👏 thanks!
I've just ordered Nina's and Graham's books!!
Has anyone else noticed how often women are getting the crap knocked out of them in movies, now? Not good.
Usually they bounce right up and fight back and often win. That is mindbending.
Interesting and engaging. Greetings from Montreal.
As someone who's passionate about art, an artist myself and someone who's studied fine art in university, I'm fully on board with equating the majority of mainstream modern art to an MLM scheme...
As a comparison it's spot on !
There's no appreciation for aesthetic in modern art, the quality of the artwork itself doesn't matter nearly as much as the "message" and how it's explained by the artist statement... And even then I'd argue that when you boil it down most modern art hasn't said anything conceptually new since Marcel Duchamp's "Fountain", which is basically just literal junk put in a gallery in order to question "what is art".... and that was made about 100 years ago!
Overall I find modern art and the culture surrounding it extremely "wankey" for lack of a better word..
Oh yeah, and on top of all of that, it's no secret that a LOT of the most expensive art sold these days are by artist who's popularity and work is artificially inflated in value by the wealthy in order to store and launder money through the sale and trade of their "art"...
Just like modern pop-stars, they're not real musicians and not real artists, they're all "manufactured". and just like it's difficult and risky to invest time and money in an actual band with genuine creative vision, it's the same with actual artist, that's why galleries are filled with modern "art" that's objectively so lazy looking, but the majority of people are kept quiet from admitting it, as it's hidden behind a facade of "if you don't get it it's because you're not sophisticated enough"... it's a very similar phenomenon to the one explored in the "The Emperor's New Clothes" tale, where no one points out something everyone can clearly see...
41:10 What a nice modern way to say, ‘She must’ve wanted it.’
“Maybe 16 meant something different in the 90’s.” No, it always meant the same thing. A 16yo has always been and always will be a 16yo.
There will always be grown people telling u that their desires are more of a priority than the needs of any dependent child. These adults know that they are slacking for their age group, but a small child will be so impressed that u have ur own room and money to spend, things that they will vastly surpass in less than a decade of their own lives.
"A 16yo has always been and always will be a 16yo." -- The rate at which children mature varies widely with culture and circumstances. This is settled social science. Even the age of sexual maturity is strongly affected by environment.
What an interesting conversation this broadcast is. Thank you.
thoroughly enjoyed.!
☺️😊😁
great / relevant conversational piece.
✌🏻🌏🇦🇺🤘🏻
I like Nina's viewpoints. We all have faults, and the World isn't just black & white. That's why I can't accept the strict P.C. views that we see on both the Left and Right. I have never had so little trust in the Authrorities, the Media and the "Influencers" as I have now, and probably won't vote again...There is noone worth voting for.😑
I really enjoy your Heretics series, I think I am in that category, too. 😉
There is no war going on. Only a struggle for people outside the norm to find a place in the whole
Love the new channel… ❤
'Simp' doesn't mean "someone who's polite to women", and men should avoid women who understand it to mean that, because they have a very warped view of what women are entitled to. A 'simp' a man who allows himself to be taken advantage of. He ascribes women superior value and quality, and will sacrifice his dignity, principles, money, time, and anything else he might have, in service of one or several women, often in the hopes of attracting their attention. The most primitive form of simp would be a man who ends up spending all his savings on an OnlyFans girl, in the hope and belief that it might lead to a relationship with her. A less obvious simp would be a man who takes on all gentlemanly virtues, even with women who have no ladylike virtues, won't treat him as a gentleman should be treated, nor will reciprocate in any other way. In short, a 'simp' is a self-made simpleton. Any woman who considers simp behavior to be mere politeness, i.e. perfectly reasonable treatment of women, is lethally dangerous, and will ruin a man's life.
Loved this interview
In the 70's and 80's all manner of celebrities had "groupies" and they were always 15, 16, 17, 18.
That was very interesting!
I really relate to your feeling Andrew of feeling like a different species amongst other men.
I've experienced that very same thing in gyms. Its everywhere to be honest, especially in tradesmen too. I've notice everytime I have to get someone in to do something I always feel like I'm dealing with some kind of knuckle dragging caveman and that's not me.
I'm respectful (I hope), don't use bad language, will not talk about women in a derogatory way etc etc.
I don't have any male friends because of this, I find almost all men I come across to be idiots!
Unfortunate you perceive an entire field of workers this way. Perhaps you have not really known anyone beyond your preconceived ideas.
I hope there are more episodes
Someone should inform Ms. Power that her voice is actualy lovely ...
Great interview. Thanks
I watched your video with Graham Linehan ( the IT Crowd, I don't know if thats his name?) He is a really good person and I totally agree with him and your interview technique really helped the topic so I subscribed. You sold me on this one before you even finished talking.
love this channel Andrew....Good discussion...refreshing x
Glad you enjoy it!
adding to the shower thing. Why do men playing sports always spit. I sort of under stand while running hard but standing on the sidelines and spitting is just disgusting. Not manly, kinda gross.
This is great! I like her, she's clever and sympathetic. (And I can really relate to your feelings about the locker room at the gym. Ugh.)
Andrew, i laughed so hard at your description of what men do in the shower 😂 I'm not a very feminine woman and often feel the same, that other women are a yotally different species to me that i just dont understand. (On the other hand, my husband can sometimes be like these men you describe and he also seems like another species 😂).
Brilliantly intelligent lady.
Love and hate; like day and night are the same pole. They only vary by degree. Love can turn to hate as day does to night 🌙
I'm sorry. I'm a bit older. But I have always liked masculine men. They DO have a soft side, which is very sexy. But I like feeling safe. Maybe someone will think twice when they see a size 13 shoe sitting at the front door? If I wanted something feminine, I'd probably be interested in girls. I think men should be men. Intelligence in a man is also extremely sexy to me. A man doesn't have to be drop dead gorgeous if he is super smart or clever. My first husband was extremely intelligent. My second hubby was more masculine and rough. But I know they both loved me. I could easily have been happy with either. The issues with the smart one, had nothing to do with him being smart. I learned a LOT. His child, my 1st born, is 2 pts under a genius! I have 3 and they are all as equally as wonderful as the other in their own unique ways. I dont think we should be messing with biology at all. People should be born being proud of and loving who they are. Idk what's going on anymore.
Great interview. I don't agree with pretty much half the things she says, but it's interesting to hear her points.
Thank you for this channel!
Her understanding of alpha vs. beta is lacking, and her definition of simp is false. Perhaps a juvenile would use the word as she defines it, but all "simp" means is a man who gives undue attention to a woman he has no relation to. Simping isn't buying a girl a coffee to get her attention, it's repeatedly buying her coffee after she has categorically rejected you in the hopes she might change her mind: she won't and you're simply wasting time and money.
Alpha is a simplification of the term "High-Value Man," which can be broken down into categories; capacity for violence; physical fitness, wealth; disagreeability. That's not a conclusive list, but "Alphas" will fall into at least one of these categories.