Gender Expert: Men Are Emotionally Dependent On Women, We're Treating Them Like Malfunctioning Women
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- Опубліковано 20 лип 2024
- Richard Reeves is a Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution and President of the American Institute for Boys and Men, an organisation that researches and addresses issues affecting men. He is also the author of the book, ‘Of Boys and Men’.
00:00 Intro
02:13 Why Dedicating Your Career To Men's Issues
04:43 What's Your Background?
06:55 The Crazy Stats That Made You Research This Topic
08:56 We're Going Through A Cultural Revolution
13:21 We Need A New Way To Approach This
17:01 Are Men And Women Differently?
21:56 Men Take More Risks
27:06 Unconscious Behaviours Of Men
35:00 Suicide Is The Biggest Killer Of Men
39:33 Why Is This Suicide Increasing?
43:36 Why Do Humans Feel Like They Need To Be Needed?
47:48 Why Men Feel Less Needed
50:32 Does Retirement Kill You?
55:32 We're Losing Connection In Our Modern Society
58:31 The Dating Environment Has Changed
01:06:12 Are Dating Apps Being Unfavourable To Men?
01:10:30 Is Marriage In Decline?
01:13:40 Births Are Increasing Outside Of Marriage
01:14:45 Is Marriage Better For Women Or Men?
01:16:48 Enforced Monogamy
01:18:44 Why Andrew Tate Converted To Islam
01:21:36 Women Economic Power
01:23:45 What Do You Think About The Word Toxic Masculinity
01:27:57 There Is A Friendship Male Recession
01:32:27 Men Shed's Movement
01:34:37 My Experience With Couples Therapy
01:37:19 The Hard Times Of Going Through Couples Therapy
01:41:14 How Masculinity Can Be Expressed
01:48:31 What Advice You'd Give Your Children
01:54:47 Using Our Voices To Make Men Be Heard
02:02:11 The Last Guest Question
You can buy Richard’s book, ‘Of Boys And Men’, here: amzn.to/3RTn986
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Within the current foreign controlled Australian Corpratocracy . Destroying our once healthy Family, ,Community and culturally expressing social system, post World War Two . Relied heavily on destroying Males important Roles .
Congratulations 🎉 to the winners!
Wow! What an amazing opportunity for Steven and DOAC fans! Congratulations to those who have been gifted this award.
Can I come watch the BTS.. I'd love too and I've done BTS photos for film so I'd like to do that for you.
Like my postal voting ballot, the notification of me winning has not arrived yet ;)
My mother died right around the time that my dad retired, and we kids all lived far away. But the neighborhood kicked in and kept finding community projects that they claimed they "needed" Dad's help with, from delivering water in his pickup to the water stands for the city marathon, to helping build things, to mowing the grass for an older woman, or helping the disabled. At the thrice weekly seniors domino games, he was given the "task" of picking up the donuts.
Dad ended up being so connected and having a great social life that even I as a single working woman could envy. We were really fortunate to have him in such a neighborhood.
@xianne 027 ... tfs, so happy for your Dad [ & you, your siblings] ! Yes, how truly ''smart'' & 'kind of his neighborhood : ) Yes, He now has connection, purpose & feels ''needed & useful'' !! .... thus busy, happy, contributing, not lonely & looks forward [hope] doing these things / reason to get up etc each day ! : )
@@cindyglass5827 Well, it's all past tense. It's been almost 20 years since Dad passed away, but we were indeed really fortunate that he lived in a community that kept him connected and active those 13 years that he was a widower alone.
They were really creative in finding ways to keep him busy and it gave him great joy to be needed.
@@Xianne027 Sorry, I missed that part, I'm sorry for your loss etc ~
That's a blessing man. Community, family, and friends is all we have when we strip away all the bullshit of modern life.
That's so nice to hear 🩷 If I ever live next to an elderly man, I will be making sure I need his help 🩷
“The women’s movement was about women securing economic independence not of men losing it” such a good line!
what do you think it means when you hire a woman because of her being a woman over a more qualified man? you want to put more women on boards means less men on boards the independence gained has been at the expense of men women are finishing uni at 2:1 and its not that more women are finishing and the men never changed but after that women still will only marry uni grads which they outnumber. I rather women were just lifted but what was done school was changed to favor women and so has the work place and men were not allowed to be masculine or perform well.
Unfortunately it didn't come with all the responsibilities of being independent. That is why you see men kick off and leave entirely. Hypothetically, your married. Few kids. Wife leaves you for someone, take the kids and everything. A guy looks at that whole thing and goes 'why should I work hard and earn for a bunch of people living off of me and not being a part of my life. I'll check out then. Do it alone. F U all. And then everyone is shocked. Women demand to be treated like men until they want to be treated as women.
@@dicekar How do you know the man is more qualified? This is an insane take, we still live in a society where we have capitalism and free markets, therefore you hire for what drives the most revenue. Do you see revenue dipping anywhere because of women being hired? Where's the evidence that these men were more qualified? Is it showing up in the earnings or the revenue?
@@dicekar The second part of your rant is just hilarious though. What do you think the solution is if women are outnumbering men 2:1? You trying to force less women into college or are you trying to force more men into college? Maybe pay teachers more money to give more economic incentive for men to become teachers, then you'll have more male role models at school?
@@dicekar Women are getting raises because the horny bosses take favor of them too. And they wonder why their companies are going out of business because of their D.E.I. initiatives...
“Humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less.” One of my fave quotes.
This is so good. I think a lot of people raised by Christianity are taught like you have to think less of yourself because it seems like it would be pride. Victim mindset.
It wasn't CS Lewis that said this. Nice quote though.
CS Lewis also said, “if you focus on heaven, you get everything earth has to offer… if you focus solely on earth, you get neither…” something like dat ❤
This is the actual problem of men. Thinking less of themselves and trying to be a provider in a world that does not need providers. I think this Richard Reeves is just a scam, knowing the issue and still fueling it.
Humility: A modest or low view of one's own importance;
Thinking about yourself less is actually called being selfless
Reminder: Basic manners apply to both men and women. "Holding the door is a symbol of"... courtesy.
Yeah, but a lot of women feel they are entitled to everything!……
Yeah, that word and the word " thoughtfulness " is quickly disappearing from the United States lexicon
@@Ffsdevgj I had a male neighbor who refused to walk through the door if I was holding it. My apartment was RIGHT ACROSS from the exit/entrance door. The handle was already in my hand, but his ego refused him to walk through a door that was already opened before he reached the handle. just because I’m a woman🤦🏽♀️ made me feel so worthless and low smh. The same way your comment makes me feel worthless and low😒
@@ayyyejesterdazed maybe you could just deal with it??? How hard is it to have 1 piece of gendered decorum? That man is not saying with his actions that you are not worthy to hold the door open for him. He saying that is not his place and it is not how he grew up. Try letting him hold the door open for you I bet it would make his day make him feel needed and not so ostracized by not only you but society as whole. Not everything is about you
@@Ffsdevgj There's a definite group of Women who feel entitled, above everyone else, it is also true that applies to many Men too, it can also be seen in some children.
I avoid people like that, if possible, you can't change their Maladaptive Ego, but you can avoid 'Feeding it'. Don't pander to these characters, your worthiness does Not depend on their extremely Conceited opinions.
Iam holding the door both for men and women, regardless of whether it is the CEO or the cleaning woman. For me it is just a natural gesture of kindness and respect to any human being.
@@rafaelm.correcher50 💯💗
Simple courtesy, indeed
Same & I am female. It's called manners, as is my articulated thanks when shown the same courtesy.
Same, also walking street side when with someone more vulnerable…a young child, an older adult (not because of age per se, but maybe balance/hearing challenges).
I only do it when I’m in a good mood.
I hold the door for who ever I'm with...it's called being polite.
Good on you , I do the same.
@@SeleMpoko common sense genius!!
The unrecognized human being .
Thank you for showing love easily.
Humanity has gone backwards
Why? Modern women don't deserve any favors.
I do as well.
I am female and I always open door for people , male and female. It is sign of respect, I am aware of some one who is behind me. I see it all the time men not doing it. In my opinion they simply don't care.
Same. It's also just door science. Why would you hit someone with a door or need to open it twice?
That’s a man’s job! lol you taking my job.
Never in my 60 years on this prison planet have I ever seen a female open a door for a male in America.
@@grantbishop1961 Agreed
@@grantbishop1961wow, really? People around me do it all the time. Men open doors for men, women open doors for women, men open doors for women, women open doors for men. It's just courtesy.
I'm 44, single, never been married, and don't have children. Everything you both said resonated deeply and at points brought me to tears. I feel seen and heard, which is such a profound thing when I felt so lonely. Thank you both for being brave enough to have the conversation. I see you and hear you, also.
Keep your head up. Read your Bible be a man ! Don’t feel bad about it. You are strong, God made and a man. You have conquest and conquering in your blood!!! Go out and get it! 💪🏽🔥
similar. I'm 49, single, never married, no kids.
Read" the rational male" by Rollo Tomassi. You still have a chance to have the life you want.
There are more than 3 billion women in the world,if u really want a woman,why restrict yourself to your zip code,travel,hell go on dating app,fill in a different state,country,continent.
Have an open heart,and open ur eyes,be smart.
U dont have to be rich to do this.theres a woman out there for everyone,just be a good person thats all
Hi Stephan, thanks for sharing! 😊
One of my friends who is just 20, tried to commit suicide yesterday. He seems to ‘have it all’..he’s good looking, has a career that he loves, a supportive family..I’m just shocked he would try to do this. I'm going to see him tomorrow when he is discharged from hospital..I’m just going to listen, and hopefully my support will make a difference, however small. We all need to check on the people we love. Things may not always be as good as they seem..
You should read the poem Richard Cory, sometimes society puts more pressure on the perfect people than we could ever realize. Godspeed.
Really sorry to hear that. Many man had been thought to not talk about their issues or feelings, causing a high level of stress and pressure about what we were meant to do, and now what we are not meant to do. Many man struggle and need a friend to talk.
Many men are going through a struggle right now, I hope he pulls through.
No one shows you who they really are. We are all fragile. You are a good soul. I had a sis in law and I knew she was depressed, I never thought she would kill herself leaving 3 small children to find her after coming home from school. I also had a cousin who at 19 hung herself in her bedroom closet. She was beautiful and popular. Demons are real and they will come in through any open door. Pray for your friend that his demons flee from him in Jesus precious HOLY Name, Amen!
Ohhh so sorry! Why would he try to end it all? Why?
11:12 regarding women relying on men for income; that predominantly played out in middle & upper income families. Poor family women have always worked; working for wealthy households, taking in laundry, sewing, etc.
My mother stayed home until 45 years old. When my parents divorced she had to go to work for the first time. She was a much happier woman after she went to work!
Yes! not working was a luxury, not a form of oppression.
@@markaurelius61 it was a luxury of the upper class but also a way of oppression. Not giving the women an education and not allowing them to work, making them completely dependable of the father or husband...
@@lauraw.7008 to some extent women were still relying on men because they were paid less as their work was seen less professional and they were assumed to have a husband with a "normal" salary, so they were paid less
@@Marta-zm8oeWhat do you mean "were" paid less? Still are.
I would disagree on one point. "We tore up the script for women and that's great". I think we just replaced it with another script. Instead of having a plethora of options, we are now forced, again, into one: you WILL be a CEO/Girl Boss. The honest truth is that 99.9% of us (there are vanishingly few CEO jobs) will work in low/middle status jobs, grinding it out, day in day out, for decades until we're worn out and exhausted. I don't know about other women, but looking back at my life as a 64 year old feminist, is that this is NOT what I signed up for! The new script also says you must never be a mother, and if you do, you must never stay at home and raise your children. We're now as equally trapped in a very tight box as we were decades ago.
Hard disagreed. Women can still be mothers, no one is telling you not to. The problem ( which I have seen myself in my friends) is fathers who expect their wife to do all of the chores of being a parent and taking care of a child meanwhile they are both working 49 hour weeks.
Also the point of women working wasn’t so they could be CEO girl bosses, it was so they could have financial independence.
I am a man but I watched my father use money to manipulate my stay at home mother bc if she left him she would have no money, I watched that for 20 years.
That is the reason that if I was born a woman I would never ever ever choose to be a stay at home mother. You would have to claw me away from my job, even if it was a fry cook at McDonald’s
@@josephp.1919 It's not that people are telling us not to, it's that it's not actually financially feasible to be a stay-at-home mom and raise your own kids now. Most of my friends have to put their kids in childcare at an extremely young age, even though they don't want to and they'd rather be home raising their own children.
@@charlottelovelynyc246 But that's not what you claimed at first- "We are now forced, again, into one: you WILL be a CEO/Girl Boss". I'm 34, and with the exception of low IQ Instagram accounts, I've never heard anyone preach that unironically to girls. No one in my environment ever expected me to be a CEO, and in high school most us knew we would *at best* aim for white-collar jobs. All my girl friends from school and work have kids now, and took 1-2 years to stay at home with their babies. It required some financial planning with their husbands, but it is certainly possible. Most of them first returned to 60%/80% jobs for a bit longer. Being a mother is not only encouraged, it is even expected, and both parents are involved with caring for the kids. It is true that most women will have to work to provide for a family, but there is still quite a bit of flexibility on how much you work if you plan ahead with your partner.
Slaving away for a boss or shareholders, rather than your husband and children.
@@josephp.1919so you'd rather be a slave to McDonald's bosses and shareholders than working for your husband and children? Interesting....
There is no such things as financial independence because you have to get the money from somewhere.
My grandmother told me, “ the difference between a boy and a man is that a man has something in his life that is more important than himself.” The male mental health crises and its antidote seems to support this idea. It also supports emotional maturity and growing beyond self awareness to transcend the self… it’s interesting how interconnected it all is.
All journalists should study Steven Bartlett and how effective he is at interviewing. The allowance of silence, the warmth, the authentic interest, the calm pacing. It all makes for an honest discussion that feels more like a heart-to-heart talk than an interview. ❤ Thank you.
Steven allows his guests to talk. Sounds like an obvious way to hold an interview, but there are podcasts I just cannot watch anymore from the CONSTANT interruptions by the host, or worse, the host wants to say what they know about the topic, then ask, "would you agree?". Steven comes prepared, listens, stays present, asks relevant questions. An intelligent and humble man. Bravo.
Totally, it feels more just like a discussion or casual chat, rather than a typical Q&A interview, though he does manage to get the questions in...
I agree. I love watching his podcasts, because of his warm, understanding and curious personality and the ability to know exactly where to interject and ask questions. He is not only an active listener but an active participant in the conversation with a deep interest in what everyone has to say that he interviews. Well done on becoming the wonderful person that you are Mr. CEO
And all the prep shows
I can listen to him all day. ❤
I’m only 40 minutes in to this conversation & I have already cried multiple times. As a 29 year old man & so much of this is so relatable.
It’s so hard to articulate these things.
Thank you for having this conversation!
Same brother
You have permission to wipe your tears, study a trade and create your best life. Turn those tears to anger and then anger to fuel for success. They want you soft and weak so they can rule over us. It's time for men to be warriors not wimps. I have so many clients studying stoicism with their sons. Powerful mastery of self.
@@LoveQuestWithLisaConcepcion And here you are, grifting off the pain of others.l Gross.
@@LoveQuestWithLisaConcepcion omfg SHUT UP HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING??
@@LoveQuestWithLisaConcepcion proving their point that men can’t have emotions 🙄
"If you have kids, you have a moral responsibility to be a father to those kids." I love this line. To many men run away from this in any way they can. That is not fair to the mother and has been happening for decades.
Women have no fault divorce, they can abort at will. Men have NO OPTION in determining if a woman will keep the child or not so granting women power to garnish a man's wages and his future is the height of hypocracy from feminist minded people.
Mother's have a responsibility to find strong ,trusted male role models that agree to step in. I had my younger brother and a family friend that helped with my boys.
@@teresaodle857sa happens often in cases like that. Unfortunately my mil took help w the young kids w a cousin and he sa the little boys ages 2-4
the problem with having kids is you have to deal with the mother. If shes your wife then maybe things work out. But its the fact that men have to deal with all the BS their female partners throw at them which makes being a father not worth it in everyway because relaionships with women is completely 1 sided.
@@deficator750 there are men that start out as foster parents and then adopt. Or going the route w an LGBT couple. There are options.
"You shouldn't think less of yourself, you should just think of yourself less" very well said!
Fuck no, that's entirely the issue. Men should think of themselves a whole lot more.
I was alone traveling with my daughter who is 6. When we were getting out from the bus to go to the airplane, I was holding her hand but also had 2 bag packs, mine and hers, and they were heavy. A very nice guy looked at us and asked permission to help her step out of the bus, off course I said yes because I obviously needed help. These things are so important, and I appreciate very much when men are offering to help, they really are taller and/or stronger most of the time and being a gentleman makes the difference. We are different and we should just acknowledge and respect these differences.
It’s true we are different but the problem is women’s differences are seen as less valuable in society. The reality is that we are complementary. One isn’t better than the other.
@@CambieSweets this thought alone makes some men think that society takes their worth from them. They 'need' to be better. At least better than women, if all men they meet in life and see in the media are presumably better than them. Were they to abandon this way of thinking, they may feel better.
@@desarc6855 Absolutely, men are always playing a zero-sum game.
🤢🤮
I don’t want a world where caring gentleman are so few .
The male door holding thing has always baffled me. I went to a mixed sex school and we were taught to hold the door open for anyone who was coming along behind, as long as it didn't mean they had to run to take advantage of the opportunity. 😂
This is a red herring. Nobody actually cares about holding doors apart from manosphere commentators.
I love automatic doors 😂
If we are passing through a heavy door or gate, it's common courtesy to hold it open for those passing behind us.
{Men and women}
A really sweet boy {aged about Eight} went and got me a paper bag for a dog treat while in a queue at the till... Lovely manners- he heard me asking the man at the till ''Do you have bags for the treats?'' and the young lad went off and got one.
you must not have grown up in the south
@@tresjolieme81
No, I didn't. What was it like around door holding culture?
Why do we need to be “needed” rather than “wanted/chosen”? I don’t like being “needed” because it feels like being used/trapped. There is something empowering about feeling “wanted/chosen” without being “needed” that I wish they’d explored more. I want to always "choose" my partner and for my partner to "choose" me every day out of our mutual love and respect for each other. And agree that if that ever goes away, we will discuss it together and assess whether this relationship is still fulfilling/worth continuing together.
If you do not need something, why would you want that same something?
Needed is about personal fulfillment and purpose. Wanted is about ego. Want without need is fleeting and useless.
Because what people want changes every day and raising a child takes 18 years.
I wish women would take that serious instead of focusing on whether or not they want to party.
Modern women suffer peter pan syndrome.
@@SV-je8mg perfect explanation.
Needs equals dependency. If you can gate keep a persons access to meeting their own needs it's a powerful form of control and leaves them helpless.
In my experiences people who are needing to install themselves in a position to meet your needs are trying to covertly control you as a means to meet their own interests. I want my autonomy.
It's much more powerful to be wanted by someone who can walk away from you at anytime but doesn't because they recognise your worth.
My friend held a door open for a female. She had a go at him for being sexist. His response “I’m not holding g it open because you are a lady, I’m doing it because I’m a gentleman”. Absolute genius. That being said I’ve rarely come across a negative reaction for offering a get a bag down, holding a door open or carrying a lady across a puddle.
Carrying a lady across a puddle? She can't walk around it?
ur first story sounds made up sorry
@@teresamagnusson there were brambles either side of the path. I had boots on and she wore sneakers. She also happens to be my partner. 😊
@@jesuissweet it’s not impossible, I suspect it may have been one of those tails that gets passed around and he’s used it as his own. 😂
That doesn't mean we don't want it. It just means the women speaking for all of us that don't think like us are f coming across you before we can. As a woman who hardly ever sees this happen, let alone experiences it, I apologize that you've been through that
It's almost impossible to be the sole provider when most families need 2 incomes to survive in current economies.
And that was the plan all along. Decrease in home gardening and cooking or in home entertainment. thereby creating a need for businesses to offer things like childcare, grocery delivery, drive throughsz etc.
That's cos "something" happened about 50 years ago that doubled the supply of workers while the demand stayed the same, causing wages to be devastated.
@@kevinpankanin6222if women didn’t come to the workforce, w4m4n would have terrible lives. So no, it’s not a “plan”.
@@luminous696950 years ago things were terrible for most people. That’s not the case today. And a few years before there were w4ars. Don’t sugar coat the past and idealise something that didn’t even exist.
@@luminous6969 the jobs that existed back then didn’t exist. M4n simply didn’t adapt. Plus w4m4n were working for fr44. He is talking about the HEAL sector. All that was done by w4m3n for free.
I can't be the only young woman (29, single, wanting to get married) who was absolutely stunned by the repeated message of "men need to be needed". If there is one thing, I am actively working on in regards to relationships, it's "Do not be needy! Never come close to being perceived as a burden!". The message toward women from men within their dating pool has repeatedly been that! That's why I feel unsure about how to process this new learning..
Yes, they need to be needed (of use, valued, helpful, loved), which is different to being needy (insecure, whiny, demanding). That’s how I interpret what he means by needed.
@@paper601 to me it sounds like anything that isn't hyper-independant on a woman's part is already too needy. Would have appreciated the two to get a bit more into this.
@@atide_and1175 I haven’t picked up on that, but I’ll keep listening. I always find that sort of stuff beside the point anyway to be honest. When I listen to these views, I can empathise and appreciate what’s being said as other people’s experiences, but I write my own book and it doesn’t include a man who thinks I’m needy, it’s one who understands me, and I understand him.
Brene Brown is an excellent voice on the shame of being vulnerable. We're all human, we all have needs.
We are instinctively driven by purpose and feeling like we matter deeply to a woman that is there for us as much as we are for them. Eliminate purpose and most of a man's identity is destroyed. We become lost. And we know no one will come to help. We're alone either to figure it out or give up. I unknowingly went into a shitty job right after college that has dragged me down. I'm 29 as well, wanting to meet anyone at all as it's been over a decade of loneliness, wanting to marry, and wanting to figure out where I go from here career-wise. I've been a number in this job, my parents are heartbroken to see me spiral into who I am today, had some health issues, and I was pretty close to suicide twice during covid taking stock in all of these things. Now I know I don't want to die, but I still haven't cracked the code at getting the excitement back to live vibrantly. I miss having someone to share life with. Don't second guess yourself at all. Your "neediness" may be the purpose that revives a man in their life, reminds them they matter again, and earns you a devoted partner.
When I heard "I've tried to raise them in a way that would give them the courage to ask the girl out, the grace to accept no for an answer, and the responsibility to make sure that either way she gets home safely" I literally said "wow" and started crying. There was many moments of this conversation when I felt moved, but this one destroyed me. I really feel, as a raging feminist, that awareness and raising masculinity is the new wave of feminist. I believe that we need everyone, women and man to be on the same team, and I would really like to see men carrying about each other and creating men communities like women does. Hearing how Richard Reeves talks about men was really beautiful and endearing. Thank you.
Remember the push for boy scouts to let in girls? This didn't just happen with the boy scouts. it happened with everything that is seen as a "male-dominated" hobby, job, industry, interests and so on.
The reason why men have no real community anymore, can be partially blamed on the feminist push that everything masculine and "manly" is toxic. Everything needs a "feminine" touch now, to be inclusive.
And don't try to weasel your way out and claim that toxic masculinity doesn't mean everything about masculinity, when the last few years have more than clearly demonstrated that this is the case.
Absolutely..as a radical feminist.. i am lately seeing alot of red pill death cultish behaviour in the Women's right movement.
From the transphobia to abject refusal to get involved with a male child's upbringing..
It makes me angry at well intentioned women being bigoted but at the same time it makes me feel sad because they're desperately trying to avenge the horrible things which have been done to us historically...
From gender based Eugenics to fgms to us basically being turned into slave-baby cannons, to the alienation we feel from our parents when we become teenagers, to how we're adultified by other grown ups and held responsible for household chores and babysitting while our older, more mature brothers are allowed to play outside with other kids and allowed their childhood..
Finding out that I'm only wanted if I provide access to my body or free labour crushed me to pieces..
The inherently misogynistic things i was told from my religion and relatives made me suicidal and depressed..
It is a very lonely and degrading experience..
These women are more scared than they're angry..
And i wish people understood that women are in pain just like men are...
The minute I heard that boys and men are in suffering too, I was like
"Welcome to women's reality."
The men don't care how women are suffering because they think women are objects, and all an object needs to be is pretty to control the whole world,right?
So they think pretty women don't suffer when they vehemently ignore the majority of women who don't fit beauty standards..
It breaks me how the media does not portrays the bloody and messy truth of women's body,
The truth women deal with, majority of our lives,
The actual , horrible fear most women have of child birth , of labour pain, of our crotches tearing and our asses exploding, while being shamed for having a loose pussy to make the babies society forced us to make...
The messy healing process of post delivery, about the help and nurturing affirmation women need from men in that vulnerable time.. About how men *need* emotional maturity, the soft, emotional side to truly be able to protect a woman...
But media
only shows the parts men jerk off to..
And it needs men to keep jerking off...
so that they can distract men from the fact that they're getting men addicted to make a profit off of their pain and depression..
Feminism still has a vast journey ahead..
But this time, we include men , the suffering they experience,
And the ways we can stop ourselves from perpetuating it.. Just like we expect them to...
Why should the boy be the only one asking the girl out? Why aren’t we raising boys and girls to ask each other out?
@@eznosnopes5276 because there are plenty if not the majority of women who pick and choose the parts of the patriarchy that work to their advantage. I had a coworker who married a feminist. She approached him and asked for a coffee date. There are women who would never ask a man for a date because feel it would be beneath them or that the risk of rejection is something a man should have to face. Many also want men to pay for expensive dates and feel that cheap men ask for coffee dates.
@@cbassett7274 yep. We’re teaching boys they aren’t intrinsically deserving of love or affection if we teach them it’s only their job to approach. We’ve taught girls to feel worthy of love but boys they need to earn it.
We’re teaching girls that boys fear of rejection should be subordinate to girls fear of rejection and he should just take it. Through out a lifetime, I believe these are harmful messages that play out in negative ways in men’s lives.
LOL! I'm retired, divorced and my children live a long way away. When I retired I bought a new motorcycle, I started getting out to more techno gigs as I had the time. If I have the time I do a little writing and keep fit working outside brush cutting etc, building rock walls on my property or just sitting under a tree listening to the birds.. I don't need people but I enjoy the faces I meet. Geez people learn to love yourself first. Life is truly grand
I think that's one of the greatest issues with people these days. So many people are absolutely reliant on other's approval. Once you find things that YOU truly enjoy for yourself, it takes a huge load off mentally.
I think it's very USA mentality to think that being retired could be bad for the tribe. Specially with the extremely unequal wealth distribution they have and non-solidary pension system, it's really crazy they would think that.
Opening a door for a person, any gender, is being a considerate human being. I care about you and see you as a person of value to hold the door. Treat others as you’d like to be treated.
Communist
Exactly. It's not a men or a woman thing. It's something that a respectful person would do.
agreed, and i hardly ever see women open up doors for men which must mean that women do not value us as human beings.
I love that men hold the door for me and always thank them. However I always notice a ww come speeding up out of nowhere so that I as bw will be forced to grant her this “entitlement”. And when this dynamic plays out in the numerous mundane ways where they demonstrate this inhuman rank pulling reflexive default there can be no reciprocity.
So true
As a middle schooler, my father criticized me for wanting shoes like the other kids, saying what I wanted was a job.
In my relationships, I became the breadwinner. I no longer look at men as the provider and protector. Now, I find relationships having too many issues and prefer to be alone. Rather than trying to earn love, now it comes down to how to find my own self-worth. Looking for what I need from with-in. That's one of the main changes happening in the world.
Absolutely. I too only found peace once i learned to truly love myself. We men are far too conditioned to be disposable and human doings instead of human beings. The game looks very different once you learn to value yourself and your peace.
@Bob_111 I love that! Human doings, rather than human beings. That's the most accurate depiction I think I have ever heard. What we bring and what we do defines us. Rather than just being, the only time a person seems to be valued for who they are, is after the person passes.
@@pearlestrada7453 I hope you find someone who deserves your love..and that can give it to you freely, not expecting you to ‘earn’ it
That’s what women go through as well.
Right now nobody is acknowledging the differences and expecting the same outcome from both men and women.
This is why all of us are ending up alone trying to fulfill ourselves with our hobbies and jobs.
Thanks for sharing and starting this conversation! 🙏
My single 28 year old son was telling me about a casual conversation he had with a buddy who is almost 30 also. They both were talking that if they died no one would miss them because they aren’t needed at all. They don’t have kids. They’re not married. My son said the only one that would really be affected would be his baby sister, I did not like that conversation.
My 30-year-old son has health issues and lives with us. He has decided to never marry because of his bad health. We were in the emergency room one day and they asked him if he was sad or depressed or had thoughts of suicide. He told them he didn’t and they left the room , immediately upon leaving the room, he joked, “I have thoughts Of suicide everyday.”
He just didn’t want to be admitted! This is an absolute pandemic. Thanks for discussing! (except for the polygamy part) Makes me mad at my husband when he didn’t even do anything wrong. Anyone comes near my husband and I’ll claw their eyes out.😂
I’m really sorry that your son feels this way. His whole family and friends would be affected. His role in life is to be happy and create positivity in the world and in relationships. He can do it, it just sounds like he doesn’t believe it possible for himself! Maybe therapy would help him 💜
@@rachaelhaines1576What if he only has that one male friend she mentioned?
And she also said he only has one sibling, his sister.
That's two people.
That will forget about him if you give them enough years.
Even in the Bible it's said about people, even the greatest people, that even THE MEMORY of these great important to society men and women will be forgotten in a few generations.
The sands of time never stop blowing and covering up names, places and actions.
So many people feels this way nowadays, and you won't ever realize how prevalent it is. Men don't receive support, love or affection and we all believe no one would miss us. After all, the society has shown us we're nothing more than cogs in the machine and meat for the meat grinder of war. Now even our usefulness has been taken away, so what is the point?
@@PowerofRock24 this is what I don't get. Why need women to be economically oppressed to feel needed?
If you intend to be a husband and have children, then your work today is so that you can meet a need. A woman still is vulnerable when pregnant and having kids, you need to be able to lead a family through all these ups and downs of life. It's just common sense to me. Why just make the logical leap to being useless? What about the support and emotional connection that women are craving for? Why reject providing that and making the leap to being useless? From my time viewing the bitterness in redpill, I have noticed that many of the guys have a failure in reasoning or logic. It's not that they don't feel needed, it's that they have a particular thing they want to do, and want to force it as what women must need.
Ex. They insist women should be stripped of economic freedom because men don't care about talking to women or providing emotional support, what they want is to protect and provide and the woman to submit to them.
So men are needed, but if we take the red pill, it will look like women do not want what some of these men are offering as the only construct for which they intend to be useful to these women, and so they ignore the needs they could be filling and jump straight to being useless.
So men are useful, but some men need to learn how they as persons and their talents can be used to fill the needs that they ought to fill.
@@STak-ju7gx I never suggested women should be economically oppressed. But back in the 50s, women didn't NEED to work, though they did have that option, despite what feminists will say. In those times, men could provide for a whole family, just like men used to provide for an entire tribe with the hunt. In this economy, people can barely even support just themselves. Of course men feel like failures if you understand the way men's brains work. A man's entire reason to exist is to provide and be valuable. But how can he do that when employers treat their employees as expendable, and wages are at an all-time low. Women have only been a major part or the workforce for a short time so the difference is likely not as glaring. For men, they see their grandfathers that bought their own homes in their 20s and was married shortly after and still had enough money left over for retirement, luxuries and a nice car. But men today can't even get a date because or the current cultural dynamics, and they will never afford their own home or be able to retire. Then there is an entire sect of the feminist crowd saying "we don't need men" and "delete all men", basically kicking the dog while he is down. They also claim men have it better, but we don't see any evidence of that, except for the top 1% of earners.
The main problem I feel that has been driven into the minds of men for forever, and now more recently into women, is that we are considered failures if we aren't fully independent by adulthood, which is absolutely stupid because we as humans are social creatures, not solitary creatures. We need dependence on others for a myriad of aspects, be it for emotional support, or stimulating conversations, economically, taking care of our offspring, social life, etc., and fulfillment in these aspects don't necessarily have to come just from a romantic/life partner, or immediate family. It can also be fulfilled from friends, or even just coworkers, or acquaintances with common hobbies, etc. Loneliness is something that we were never meant to be in. And it sucks that this lone-wolf mentality has been pushed so hard on everybody, especially young men.
I think a major issue is that people in general have traditionally been married to the idea of finding someone to be with, rather than the idea of finding someone they want to be with. The idea of being with a person is deemed more important than the person themselves.
The entire root of being with someone, is basically saying "I think we can get more out of life together, than apart", and two people agreeing on that statement about each other, will be happy together. But it has to start with the person themselves, rather than the generic idea of being with someone in general, because at that point you're just looking for "anyone" to fill an arbitrary hole in your own sense of self fulfillment.
yeah, i think part of it which is partly why there are so many situationships. They don't really like each other, and so never fully commit, but its better than being alone. But I think its also partly because of bad communication. Because neither is willing to be alone they are not willing to set boundaries out of fear of scaring the other person off. So a guy engaging in such behavior will eventually come off as having no spine.
I for a while have had the feeling that part of the problem with relationships is that people are married to this idea that the relationship ends at marriage. That is they put in effort when dating but stop once married. Traditionally pre marriage stuff was mostly to test if you could even stand the person. If you went through with it marriage was the start of the relationship and both parties generally understood this was something they were expected to work on into eternity.
@@AndrewTheFrank That's honestly part of why I'm a bit against marriage. I mean, not the idea of commitment to each other, nor the idea of marriage from a practical and legal point of view -but rather the fact that it somehow should signify a change that realistically shouldn't even be there? If you love someone enough to marry them, then the marriage part itself should be irrelevant because you already love them that much and are committed enough as is. So why try to force a change in the relation by inserting some "relationship promotion" to marriage status. It just seems very weird and dated as a general concept.
I'd much rather consider general commitment in a relationship without any promotional name to it, other than it being a relationship. It's a constant process of seeing if you can build your life together, and this doesn't stop just because you get married. You don't suddenly achieve a level where you have to stop caring about how you build your life together, or evaluate your level of commitment. Deep down emotions and wants will not care what you call yourselves. Eventually they will surface regardless, so better do it on honest terms instead of pretending that calling yourselves married is now some safety blanket that lets you take it easy and neglect some of the things you were more committed to prior to being married. Marriage isn't some checkpoint you reach where you're now safe from acting on undesired emotions.
I mean.. I don't hold something major against marriage in general, I just think it's a bit of a wasteful concept emotionally speaking, and I can definitely see how many people would fall into a false sense of security because they believe the act of getting married enforces a higher level of commitment which then allows them to slack on some aspects they wouldn't dare do (aka dare face and deal with) prior to being married.
Well said, and I think this is why men may settle more than women. You can be raked over the coals by society, peers, friends, family for not being in a relationship. It's seen as a failure. I think a lot of people have a desperation to lower their standards to have a warm body to sleep next to at night, not realizing that the settling may result in decades of misery and "what if"s. We've either got to innoculate people from the opinions of others or change our culture, which is highly critical of men who are alone.
Well said !
@@C12341 society is also critical of women who are alone but over the last decade or so women have learned to not need to get their validation from men and instead seek it within. Once men can learn to not require the validation of women (or of other men for ‘having’ a woman) they will be better off, and then we can learn to be truly healthily interdependent.
I’m 22 years old, with a three year old son. Single father with FULL CUSTODY. Partnerless. Without my son I can see exactly what he is talking about. I find myself in a unique situation. Great episode!
at 22?, damn brother i am 22 as well but im pursing my studies right now. life is really different for people regardless of being of same age. i wish good health for you and your son and may you be able to provide the best for him.
Seek wisdom. There can be change without growth, but there can be no growth without change.
You are amazing and your role is the most important in your son's life. May Christ bless you and keep you.
I'm in the same boat, with a 6-year-old girl. It changes your view on dating and what you'll put up with and what you like and expect from a partner. I suspect you're rocking single parenthood, building a career without crying about it or blaming anyone.
Why does the mother have no involvement at all? For young children especially, a mother is important. Unless she was really harming the child.
I raised my children effectively alone, because I married an alcoholic who also abused us
But somehow, with slander he stole my children and paid off home and all the cars and my clothes and furniture and everything in the house. Leaving me on the streets with nothing.
I hope that for your child's sake, you did not acquire sole custody by using parental alienation. Because that is severe child abuse
Avoidant men: thank you for bringing this topic up! I’m so heartbroken by seeing men avoid conflict only to have to pay with failed relationships and failed businesses. May our men be healed from this so they may live the wonderful assertive lives they deserve. ❤
Men need to be more balanced and solve conflict in healthy ways.
There are times to be assertive and times to be less so...balance!
The poster was discussing avoidant men, and you replied with a generalization about all men. I am not arguing against the point of being balanced, I am saying the way you word yourself is offensive to a gender.
@@robertdulany6811 it's not offensive when it's true
@@SC-sh6ux problem: the balance woman wants is not what men perceive as balance - you are demanding that men act like woman, and psychologically speaking, that is what is causing men to fail, for our brains are just different.
Sorry, but it is just Nature - its not saying that "woman bad, men good", but a simple acceptance of our distinctive diferences.
@@KimWest-hv4tv I'm a woman and it is offensive if it's a generalisation and certainly not true. I'm no expert in men, as I have dated women for the last 20 years and I'm in a long term relationship now. However I have a very large family with many wonderful men, uncles and cousins. They were raised a certain way. I only had a 1st and last boyfriend many years ago and he was an incredibly wonderful soul. Although I realised then I wasn't attracted to men I can 100% say my only experience of a man in a relay was respectful, kind, hard worker and open to talk about anything and open to listen to anything. We're still good friends now and he found a beautiful and wonderful wife for himself. Maybe you need to surround yourself with the right people. That's on you dear.
One correction: that famous divorce lawyer said that, although women do usually file for divorce, they are not necessarily the ones "precipitating" it. There is a difference between WANTING the divorce and HAVING to file for it.
True. I filed because my ex husband pretty much forced me to do so. He was deployed and wanted it done before he returned so that he could marry another. I obliged as it was enough for me to walk away. I filed and he agreed to everything because he wanted it so bad. I asked for things I was entitled to and walked away from anything I couldn’t carry. I wanted a clean break.
It's not about being needed, its about being APPRECIATED
If you needed that means you appreciated in the context he talks about.
@lopetonceba1059 not really, you can need someone and do show the appreciation for what he did for you
@@lopetonceba1059 majority of people don't appreciate the work of teachers, the police, the firefighters... but we need them
@@lopetonceba1059nah, jobs can need us but we don’t always feel appreciated. Same can be said for how men are expected to take initiative in asking women out but definitely face a ton of rejection. Unless you’re in the top 5% of men (height, looks, money, influence) you likely never receive a message on a dating app where women are receiving multiple messages per day. That feels like universal rejection.
We all need appreciation, not merely being needed to pick up the heavy things or fix the plumbing.
What’s wrong with being needed?
The real problem we have right now: we are downplaying housewives too much due to industrialisation. I just had a conversation with my friend who was complaining how young people do not have the adult mentality. When 2 parents are working, something has to give. The worst thing? The social construct had created a situation where 2 working parents is the norm.
I would give anything to be a stay at home mother. But society crucifies you for it, because you have to contribute to the household, have your own money, have something to fall back on should anything go horribly wrong. I tried it at 36 and went back to work within 4 years because even my husband expected me to go back to work.
I don't think you can bring that argument to him. He's probably of the opinion that women should work 40+ hours and just leave children in the daycare.
Question why automatically housewife, why not house parent or both parents working part-time and sharing parenting. I think the backlash to the one parent staying home is often there's an assumption that it will automatically be the mother even if she's earning a bigger income than the other parent which is crazy...also by defaulting to it's always the mother excluding breast feeding (which obviously can only be done by mum) what you're saying is that men are not as good at parenting as woman which is not true.
@@Bella34544 It seems like you don't understand much about psychology at all. Fathers cannot be mothers. Mothers cannot be fathers. And for the first year or few years of a child's life, a mother's near-constant presence is extremely important. There's also more and more research popping up that showcases that this really is the case as well. It's not a coincidence that man people these days have such a hard time bonding with others. It's because they haven't gotten the experience as a child. Some will still manage, but many will not.
Theres too high a risk for women to be stay at home mothers/housewives. Theres too many cases where the husband ends up leaving her and she has to rely on her family to get by because she gave up any sort of education/work related progress. Not just that but the work force actively discriminates against anyone that hasnt been in the work force in a while. Now imagine being pregnant, with two kids and no husband around... Yeah, not easy. there is little to no support for women like this, meanwhile men just jump from one woman to another without a care for hurting the ones that matter most. Men need to step up, join modern times, and stop wishing for something that only exists in the past.
As a woman, this conversation triggered something too. I’m feeling responsible for men feeling useless. I’ve been raised in a very patriarchal way where I was feeling invisible and inferior. I grew up with the idea that the more independent I’ll be, the better I was going to feel. Who needs a man if the only way a woman is seen is as a birth giver and a man support. So I came up with this thought, this idea that I didn’t need a man. Needing a man was bad. I should provide for myself. Holding a door for me? Sorry but I can do it myself. Which is such BS as I love when a man does it. I love when a man takes my hand to push me on the other side of the footpath so he’ll stay on the road side. I love a man who makes plans or take decisions or initiatives.
And yes, I do need a man. For affection, for conversations that will challenge my thought process and make me grow. I need a life partner.
YOU MEN ARE NEEDED.
This is something that everyone who isn't a man gets wrong: A man holding the door for someone is not to be meant as a sign of pointing at the other person's inferiority or phyiscal inability. It is a sign of acknowledgement, that you exist an are worthy of respect and being treated with the dignity of a human being. Find me someone who doesn't keep the door open for the person right next to them and I'll show you someone who doesn't care about the people around them and looks at them with disgust, or as a nuisance. It is that simple, yet for some reason, some people exist, who seemingly had this very fundamental thing rewired to the wrong conclusion by their upbringing or education.
Women don't need romantic relationships.
But men are worthy even without a romantic relationship.
Here's the problem. If we need them, they will abuse us. Their loneliness is their own fault.
couldn't agree more xx
Dont bother even trying. We men are actually hiding away, not joking. We CHOSE to not be in a relationship.
There is a close link between narcissism and a misunderstanding of equality. A narcissistic man will interpret that a woman's independence means that she has to fend for herself in any situation, a narcissistic woman will interpret that a man must give her respect no matter what she does. Their confusion will function as social gaslighting.
what a bunch of bs. straight out of ur ass.
An independent woman does have to fend for herself in any situation though. That's the very definition of independent.
Respect has nothing to do with a narcissism though, it’s a mutual responsibility in the couple - to respect each other…
big part of the issue is defining "caring, nurturing, and emotionally vulnerable" as "synonymous with femininity". these are simply human attributes that have been societally attached to femininity and a lot of men would probably have no issue being those things if it wasnt seen as feminine
we could also stop viewing feminine as negative and that would handle it too.
Thank you. I have three sons (8, 6 and 2) and they are all naturally so caring and nurturing. It makes me sad to think society is going to teach them that's not how they should be.
"these are simply human attributes that have been societally attached to femininity" -- no, they are not. They are biological attributes most commonly found in women. They are not learned social behaviors.
The problem is many people view fimininity as being weaker and inferior
Thank you for telling them!! This is the missing piece here. Men keep themselves from being Human. It's not feminine to be HUMAN. Feelings And Connection Are Human! Not Weak! It's not so complicated. Stop Being Stern And Macho And Let Yourself FEEL without Self-Hatred. Reach Out to other men and chat about your Situation and Feelings. That's it!
I’m not even half way through the episode and can’t hold back on commenting and saying thank you for talking about this. As a diehard women empowerment advocate, single mom of a son and daughter, that left a abusive misogynistic marriage, I over poured into my daughters and my own independence and empowerment, while subconsciously forcing my son to becoming all about women empowerment and I believe it caused him to struggle with his own sense of masculinity and even value. He’s such a sweet and kind young man now (22 yrs) but I can see the struggle he has when it comes to feeling valued and know who and how he should be.
I recognized this years ago, apologized and have been trying to help him with that.
While my daughter (18 yrs) knows who she is, her value and how she shows up in the world.
This is a long overdue conversation and doesn’t mean that we are turning back the clocks.
Wow, a mother who apologized to their son? Rare
@@_VISION.Why she needs to apologize to her son for
Beautiful share. Thank you. I’ve done this work too. I made sooo many apologies. 🤦🏻♀️ If you need some guidance where to go next… A good book I read was The Queens Code by Alison Armstrong. Also The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida. Both these helped me understand the men in my life and how to foster healthy masculine energy in my three sons. Your open heart is already serving your son, blessing to you. ❤
@@neo1053 I guess you don't know how to read
And this is why prisons are filled with men and women who were brought up in single mother homes.
So if women now ask for divorce twice as often as men, because they are no longer forced by financial circumstances to stay married - does this not imply that men *not* asking for divorce as often as women means *they* are forced to stay married by financial concerns?
It only means that men have more emotional investment in staying married then women…you can still go to work
It's cheaper to keep her. You'll hear many married men say this.
Men are not asking for divorce because they still need the emotional support they get from women in marriage where women do not need the economic support from men anymore. So basically staying in marriage benefits men more than women.
Yes men are stuck in marriages with deadbeat wives who don't provide what they initially promised.
Also the courts defaulting custody to women is holding men prisoner in marriages.
That would be the fair, egalitarian logic. No one is interested in equality, though, as you can read in the responses.
"Treading On Egg Shells" is my summary of this conversation's tone.
Gentlemen. I like this points. but I must simply suggest, make 2 friends - male. Good ones. Support each other, unconditionally. and be brutally fucking honest. Have their back, even when they fuck up and be their to improve. My 2 friends of 12 years have been the greatest thing to ever happen to me. Supported me and my wife, we saved one marriage from sabotage and divorce, we're helping another with his first kid.
It guys you want just turn the macho off, set the goals, don't mince words, and get to work.
My partner has friends like that and it is amazing. I can not imagine what he would be like without his friends - all I can do is thank them and let my partner to be there for them.
Much easier said than done.
So how do you "make" 2 male friends? Meet them in the toilet as they are refreshing their makeup? It's kinda like saying if you are starving - just get some food. If you are homeless - just get a home.
Instead turn to God and Jesus who will never disappoint, fail you, abandon you, or leave you. Seek and put your faith in them! The best thing you can have in this life is a personal relationship with God and Jesus.
@@Michael-iw3ek woman usually do not meat friends by refreshing makeup in the toilet. You have to go places where people share common interests and interact. I met my best friends at work, non profit organisation, volleyball. And nowadays there are men only support groups, look that up.
“Why did Andrew Tate convert to Islam?: to have multiple wives”. Yes, any person with a decent amount of critical thinking skills would have figured this out from the beginning. It was to suit his own personal needs, not to follow Allah IMO.
Not sure if this applies to the subject, but in my experience all the Muslim men I have come across are married to one woman and committed to her and the Christian men have side relationships. 😅
... fulfilling personal wants, or ego centric needs?
@@zzs33 you're very limited experience with Christian men. way to smear a whole subsection of people 🖕🏼
@@zzs33 then you need to get out more 😂
I worked in Greece for a few years and married Arab Muslim men travelled in packs and screwed everything they could. They aren't honorable
With all due respect, I think Andrew Tate is the furthest idea of what male role model is. Andrew Tate only had a platform due to his rise in certain sports, in no way is Andrew Tate in any place to provide guidance, half the spewed diatribe is because women throw themselves at him so he grew an ego and that ego is writing checks his body can't cash. Tate is a mysoginist with no useful or moral bank.
As the mother of a little boy, and a wife, a sister, a daughter to 3 amazing men, it is insane to me that advocacy for or even just pointing out struggles of men is considered controversial. The people responsible should be ashamed of themselves.
I have never met a man who felt that lost. Ever. Where are they hiding? Because I am a single mother, struggling in my life. I might be more than happy to meet someone who would at least not beat me up or get jealous of me, because I am being loved by my child.
They're just invisible to you, thats all. For a number of reasons. You have to examine yourself to understand the reasons for that though. This takes work so is generally avoided.
Here’s something that often gets totally misrepresented in these conversations. People SO OFTEN say that men used to be expected to be the providers while women stayed home. Through most of human history, men and women had to “work” and provide for themselves and their families. It was only for a tiny period of time that men did most of the providing. That’s NOT the norm, yet we treat it like it is. Even when we look at media’s portrayal of centuries past, we see women as being taken care of be men, but that was for a fraction of the world population - specific to a time, place, and class.
We really need to remove this piece of the narrative that’s simply narrow and, frankly, inaccurate.
yep. preach girl. its only for the wealthy that women didn't work and its only for a decade or two, where the middle class could live pseudo rich, that women largely didn't need to work. It was also at a time just after a war when most the labor force had died so workers could demand more pay.
and in history past if women weren't working the fields with men they were cooking and cleaning all day. they didn't have dryers and pre packaged meals. when making food from scratch its an all day process. washing cloths by hand is long and laborious. So even if a woman didn't have to work a job for cash (such as be a rich man's maid, or some labor job) she still was doing some kind of labor all day. All of these things women did, if not money savers, were necessary for survival. Its not like they were unimportant.
I mostly Agree, everybody had to work in the past, It was just more common that men's work was outside the home (anything from building/miner/farming/woodcutter and so on) where women did the household (preseving food/preparing food/washing/cleaning/caring for the young kids) work at home.
Even the kids needed to work or assist from a very young age (and was partly why people had so many children). I know my grandfather started helping his dad in construcktion at the age of 7 in 1920 or there about.
100% Women have always had to do important work providing for their families and communities. It seems through history that the more structured a society became, the more rigidly defined were the roles that women could undertake, stripping them of their agency.
@@michelejowilson3900 "100% Women have always had to do important work providing for their families and communities. It seems through history that the more structured a society became, the more rigidly defined were the roles that women could undertake, stripping them of their agency."
No. It was explicitly the industrial revolution that created the change to women working. This displaced women from the workforce, and it was a while before the available labour was within women's physical capability. Within that time, the new reality gave birth to corresponding social norms, which took a while to shake back off again. It wasn't about the level of structure, it was the forcing of labour into an industrialised economy, and everything that that involves.
Great point, at the turn of the 19th century many if not all women worked. Look at WW 1 videos in England, women worked constantly. From what I noticed men did a lot of cooking in that era too, but I think it was simpler times when expectations of keeping up with the Jones and keeping the house clean and laundry 24/7 were not top of mind. Men (and women) had an outlet with the community, sports, church etc
The most risky thing I've experienced in relationships was going all in because that meant I was going all out from myself. Break ups would end life as I knew it and leave me to start again from scratch. It's a fantastic way to feel worthless and alone.
I didn't meet the right woman until I was 29 and we've been married for the last 12 years with an 11 year old daughter. My second biggest fear is losing one of them. My first is losing myself.
Our family unit makes one hell of a team but our individual independence and interests are our foundations. It's important to spend some time alone doing things that I love. It helps me maintain my relationship with myself and if I were ever to experience tragedy that left me all alone, I'd have hobbies and experiences to fall back on.
When everything in our lives are attached to our relationship, such as friends and entertainment, everything is at risk. There's nothing attractive about someone who's single and has absolutely zero passions or interest for anything and we all know it. All it attracts are crazy clingers that put us back in the same situation they found us once they're gone.
Great post!
@@gracefortheteam7726 thank you.
I wish I could have grasped the concept from my parents divorce but it took me nearly losing my life and spending 6 days in ICU for me to understand several months later. It's a little more detailed version of, "you can't love someone else until you learn to love yourself." Though we also have to learn to trust ourselves to be able to enjoy our leisure time alone and we can't have alone time in a relationship without trusting our partner, or at the very least realizing that if we cannot trust them, then our relationship isn't really worth our time.
Beautifully written ❤
This one of the most important comments on this post and echoes thoughts I've had about men needing to have identifies outside of just "dad" "husband" "provider" etc. Men are valuable simply from having been born, not because they've made themselves into a red pill caricature.
@@crowncliff my mom lost most of her social life when my parents got divorced. So much of what they did involved my dad's side of the family and although some of them didn't disown her, it was just awkward.
The last girlfriend I had before I met my wife was only interested in parties and new things. She wanted the newest phone every year, the newest car every time she could upgrade and new clothes every time she got paid. When I finally realized how hollow she was, we were already living together. I promised myself that I wouldn't get into another relationship with someone that lacked passion and hobbies.
The first thing that caught my heart from my wife was her love for black and white photography. We went on hikes and adventures to find more pictures to develop in her dark room and it was awesome. I don't personally share her passion but I don't need to. I only have to support hers.
I screwed up when I started my journey as a dad. I wanted to be there for my daughter as much as I possibly could because my dad wasn't there for me. When I went to a therapist to address my depression, I was asked what I did in my time alone. I responded with work, commute and chores.
I had no idea I should have been making a little time for some solo leisure here and there. I got back out into nature and at one point while training for a race, I did a multi day paddle in my kayak and camped on the riverside. When I finally saw the lake at the end of my 130 mile paddle I broke down into tears apologizing to myself for forgetting I was in there. I'm the best friend I could ever have and it's too easy to forget that.
I resurrected and discovered several other hobbies now that keep me in good physical condition and my girls encourage me to do them because I'm a better father and husband when I take care of myself. I'm more content with life when I kick my ass in positive ways.
The “standing in front of a car” scenario is instinctively a man’s action, but it’s a woman’s action, too, for women to children. My mother was in her 70’s, and we were crossing the street, and she reached back and grabbed my hand to protect me from the traffic.
My dear son suicided age 35 almost 36 and left a note on the blackboard in the kitchen
"Get to Know Your Heart's Voice"
A very powerful statement for us all indeed !
As his mother after nearly 10 years I still miss him a lot however time does hea the grief to some degree when we realise and know his Spirit is alive and well and One never dies .
we just missed them physically .
Love and blessings to all grieving mothers and fathers and wives or husbands❤❤❤
has his mother
My prayers are with you and his statement was beautiful. God bless
For most men, it boils down to two things:
Nobody cares.
Work harder.
man up
Exactly. That's why most kids leave those same men, or let's say those "fathers" behind in nursing homes and never look back.
If you don't want to mentaly and emotionaly involve yourself in lifes of people closest to you, then you just wasted your time on this earth. It's simply not enough, you shouldn't want to just exist in space.... so as you said - you should work harder!
@@IanUnderwood1974 I'm an asthmatic who lifts shit all day in a fridge. Zero, and I mean zero thanks for doing all the heavy lifting. Past week had a chest infection and a week off, come back - everyone's behind and irritated as fuck. Not even a thumbs up when you're smashing it but it's your fault when they can't cope without you. Woman dominated workplace 🫨
@@FirstDateFrt Maybe it’s time to start teaching some leveraging skills to your coworkers. Team lifting, use of carts, etc?
Well think about the women
I’m a man that just turned 33 and I’ve been fighting suicidal ideation since I was 5.
No one has ever told me that I was precious and important in my life
We are not precious. Women are precious by nature because they can be pregnant. And that's why they are insanely privileged. But they still want more! Being born with privilege and live it the whole live make them take it as granted and not even notice that
How sad for you! Trust me, you are precious and important to someone, and although we are strangers, you knowing that you are cared about and life is worth living is important to me. I care about you! God has a purpose for you and you will go on to do good things in life, no matter what the circumstances are now. Don't give up on yourself!
Fatherless issues?
@@Susan-id5xjhe was around until i was 13. Im autistic though
@@oritheoI’m sorry you are experiencing this. How do you feel about therapy?
I am a Christian woman, 38, and it's hard finding a man who wants to live the morals and having a traditional thinking woman... But I don't want a bad compromise anymore. It hurts both
Thank you for giving this man an outlet on your platform. I would have never heard him speak if it weren’t for this podcast. My eyes have been opened.
Yay girl !!! I am a 23 year old female however I dropped my feminism years ago when I saw the destruction of females. I mean come on look at our generation of women. Yes it’s empowering we are making loads of money. But look deeper. It’s really sad and scary. And look what it’s doing to men 😢
So why have women had to join the workforce? Breadwinners who bail on them, breadwinners who abuse them? The family needing more resources, as living costs rise and salaries don't? All of the above. Who dictates the script for these modern economies? Elitists. The ratio between profits of CEOs and employees are completely out of balance. Perhaps the root of the problem should be addressed. Why don't these governments, who are supposed to have safety nets for people, recruit them to fill gaps to service society? Who are in charge of these governments? They always complain about having employment shortages, in medical, financial & technology fields, but they don't invest in people, by helping to develop skills... no, funding wars are more important. The potential of human life is not recognized by elitists. This is the biggest problem in society.
The elites wanted our children
So they lowered pay for men, forcing women into the workforce. So that public schools could brainwash our kids.
It's a long term plan
@@AnnieP-wt6ep 👏👏👏
I’d say lots of it was technological. Washing machine and frozen foods made house work cheaper.
I can see that women used to be trapped in marriage. However, now if they want to be a stay at home mother it’s just as difficult as it used to be to be an independent woman.
@@jeremymullens7167 my grandmother was born in 1905. She showed us how to make pasta on her manual hand crank pasta machine.
We had a manual hand crank meat grinder.
When she passed away I ended up with her old cookbooks. One of them had a recipe for doing laundry. Complete with starting a big fire in the yard under the barrel of water.
Of course using handmade soap and washboards.
Other recipes were for possum and frog legs. The frog one mostly was about how to catch the frogs.
@@recoveringsoul755 Cleopatra was born in the 1st century BC. Women have been independent since Eve. It's nothing new. I can't imagine how many women were like your grandmother around the times of the Great Depression, imagine... and that's a compliment. My mother's Haitian, migrated from Haiti in the 70s with a family of alot lol. I've always been a fan of women.
Psychologists studying reasons for attraction have always had proximity in the top spot. To be in proximity to people you have to leave your house and do things, meet people. This is the first thing we should be telling our young men. This was a really good conversation.
I hold a doctorate in Clinical Psychology, and agree. Proximity and thus exposure to potential mates is necessary. Notably, it's also massively more effective for finding a true match in a partner than the common trust people put in online dating these days.
Here's the massive elephant in the room were avoiding with this platitude; we've tried that and found 'sexual harassment' claims and being filmed as 'that creepy guy' for millions of people to mock online a strong demotivater to approaching even in places where you regularly attend. All of this is easily accessible at your finger tips at this very moment, just use Google or UA-cam.
It happens everywhere. Guys who choose to do something outside the home regularly, like go to a certain bar/ restaurant, join a hobby club, or volunteer somewhere... do not want to risk the very real potential of being humiliated and kicked from that space. For instance work was always a possibility in the past, now it's a HUGE no no and it doesn't matter how you look or if your approach style is optimal/ the best approach in the world; you never attempt that at work.
No, nothing is more lonely than going out to social events and feeling left out. Relationships are all transactional these days. People want you to raise their social status, make them look good, or have money or be a battering ram. There's no longer a benchmark communal link between people. By disrupting the old communal roles and inserting a smorgasbord of options it's killed off the societal positions men used to have. We have a multi cultural, multi national, multi sexual, multi ethnic society now. It's false and the roles of men will obviously drop out when you elect to have this cheeseboard of options. It always comes down to the elite.
@@BennyMcGibbon you're dooming and choosing loneliness. Meeting people and having fun around people is a skill you learn, like all things. Like speaking. You could never speak if you never practiced it. Pull through that initial awkwardness. You are looking at people and immediately casting a judgemental light on them. Deciding they're without integrity without even knowing them.
There are people for everyone. Put yourself out there and choose to reserve your judgement until you know someone. Choose to see what you like or admire about them. You might get to know bad people. You'll learn from it. You'll learn to distinguish genuine people you vibe with. Choose life, man.
Maybe you'll learn that the ~other identities~ that you choose to judge can be filled with cool and interesting people too. Based on how you write, I'm willing to bet you don't really personally know any of these people.
@@rukia01wubbaduck Rubbish. I've had many relationships and many friends. I've travelled all over the world. Something is amiss. Seriously amiss. If you can't see that then I feel that you should.
I disagree with this guy that men benefit more from marriage than women
Me too
Awesome conversation. Had me in tears. I’ve always thought as a woman that emotionally switched on men are more masculine, not less 💕
So true about the narrative regarding suicide. My sister was contemplating suicide after having struggled with depression and fibromyalgia received a breast cancer diagnosis. I told her that it would be horrible to loose her and that I would grieve our sister would grieve and our parents the rest of our lives for her. I told her if I could just listen I would...she is a breast cancer survivor of 15 years now and will be 63 in August
Bless you, and your sister.
That's beautiful for her and that she has such loving and caring family around her
My ex thought he was a feminist, but he was aggressive and used anger and passive aggressive behavior to try to shape my behavior. (Really, it just seemed like he needed someone to pin his life frustrations on.) He wanted power over. As I tried to explain to him, I wanted power with. I want to dominate no one and I don't want to be dominated. I want to work with someone -- be on the same team.
A society full of angry, hormonal young men who believe they are under attack has never led to positive outcomes.
Every team needs a captain!! 😂😂😂😂
@@robbytheartist3997 captain aka leaders provide service to everyone keeping himself for the last. He doesn’t get aggressive or dominating.
@@Emptytopfloor yes sir!!!!
What you described is not the male ideal now or historically. Especially the being passive aggressive part. That’s female behavior(not good ones) a man should direct.
And submission is done willingly through trust and a shared vision and goal. Never through aggression and violence.
On the submission thing, I believe every relationship is different. But a man having direction and leading is always a plus. And a woman should always be honored and respected. A woman should always feel valued.
Anger can be masculine but it’s against the stoic ideal if expressed at the wrong time.
I went into this episode with so many opinions and expectations and he not only addressed all of them but he made me really think about a different perspective. Great interview!
Men cursing women with the old ‘you’ll live alone with your cat’ comment fails because women love being on their own. It’s MEN who can’t handle living alone. That’s why they remarry so quickly after a divorce or being widowed. They can’t stand to be alone.
😂😂😂😂😂
@@GMK379 nobody likes being alone
"women love being on their own" is such a cope.
I'm curious, to what extent are you aware that _no_ _one_ _believes_ _you_ when you say stuff like this?
@@ash0916 maybe not, but the point is that being alone is much easier for a woman. She's out of the relationship, and at this moment, she is free from household work and men's aggression.
One thing I've noticed about young people, not just men, is they are rude and mannerless. I work in post-secondary. People coming in and out of elevators and doors, just push through without looking to see if anyone is coming. They just bulldoze they way in or out. It's the minority who hold the door open. There's a lack of please and thank you. So, I really appreciate that man who holds the door open or waits and let's me go first. I always say thank you to him. I literally have to teach my adult learners how to write properly in a professional environment and use manners.
Ok boomer
My observation has been quite different. The kindness that old people value is quite different from the kindness young people value. For instance, I've never seen a young person tear into a server for the wrong order. That's an old person dominated field.
@LCDRformat Well, I have seen young people discuss, not tear into, a server not doing a good job. I have seen young people talk to management about poor service. And, there are nasty people of all ages. My son had a sit down with BMW management about poor service, diagnosing the problem incorrectly, and then discussing how they will rectify the thousands of dollars owed on the bill. I've seen a young diva have fits about the long line for coffee. Huffing and puffing and stomping her feet. Bad manners comes in all ages, not just geriatrics. 😉
@@cynthiabrown5468 So you started out talking about how young people are rude and mannerless, now suddenly it's all ages?
@@Chris-es3wfno it’s not about being a boomer man
The most confident men are those that have been raised by fathers who fully accept the abilities & of women and work WITH them to create a family that share responsibilities equally, while also allowing for both masculinity and femininity, without prejudice of which is “better”, “stronger” or more valuable.
Women just want equal consideration, and with that have no reason to resent the power of men.
Which is not to say that there are not men who have been diminished, or young women who have been misguided in their cultural roles. BOTH need more responsible parenting roles.
Men and women used to be equal. When women held the reproductive power and men the financial. Now women hold both, which means there no longer is any trade to be made. If we don't recognize that as an issue you will lose male cooperation. Remember: You don't want a scenario where setting fire to all of it improves the chance of reproduction.
Those men see themselves as superior to women. They're just more benevolent about it. Try asking to give the kids their mother's surname, and watch the real man behind the mask reveal himself.
I've been single my entire life, never had sex, or a girlfriend. I've dated a little bit though. So far its the best decision I've made. I have made a good life for myself. I listen to my inner thoughts, and I follow my gut. Everyday I work to improve myself. I don't feel useless, worthless, or unwanted/unneeded.
I've got lots of friends and family who support me and love me.
I think I'm part of the next evolution of Man. I know that sounds pretentious. But its true. Once you've taught yourself to be independent, self sufficient, motivated, and set meaningful goals for yourself you don't really need a Woman or kids.
Men need to evolve into becoming their own identity and not rely on the identity that society has told them to be.
Its your life, live your life, don't live someone else's life. If you need a purpose, then make your purpose all about you.
I'm telling you right now, you do not need a Girlfriend, and Wife, or Kids. Take time to focus on yourself. Focus on your Mom, Dad, Siblings, Friends, hobbies, focus on your education/ career, focus on your retirement.
Do not undermine your future on the behalf of Women, you do not owe anyone anything. Be better than them, be more competitive, be more educated, be more successful, because you owe it to yourself.
Nobody is going to do it for you, aside from yourself.
A grateful note of thanks to you, your team and all the remarkable guests you assemble. I am a therapist in the Washington DC area and I find myself often forwarding particular episodes to particular patients.
Thank you for being my co- therapist And at fair prices. 😂❤
Can we acknowledge that men aren’t just “feelinging” unneeded… they are being TOLD they are unneeded!
Its because throughout history men have always been manipulative and toxic to women and women are starting to understand they don’t need men to survive like in the past unless they treat them well.
Exactly! The problem is gynocentrism, they are brainwashed into feeling like they can't be a man without a woman.
All i read on the internet is men hating women and want to harm women. Not the other way around. And in my country everything is manly. Disgusting place to live in.
bro why do u expect random women to need u ? we dont know u weirdos
Well, technically they aren't needed. At least not by women. Nowadays women don't necessarily "need" men, being in a relationship is moreso something you either choose to do or stay away from. Nothing wrong with that
Avoiding holding women accountable in those podcasts mean that it was never aimed to help men . Acting as if women didn't play a role in this is mental . People would rather gain views over men is the main problem with " high value " people especially women .😂😂
He is the typical pander bear.
As a man I do not find the idea of being a provider or protector attractive. I am attracted to emotiionally and financially idependent women
Can I ask why? and by independent do you mean financially supports herself only? I’m curious.
@@princesslola9449Can I chime in here, princess? Because there can be no equality where there is dependency. Where there’s no equality, there will be power games.
A dependent woman is like a child. Just as I doubt a woman would be likely to find a needy, dependent man attractive, so it works the other way.
@@princesslola9449it's gross
When my boys were younger, my youngest came home from school one day and said, “It isn’t fair being a boy. It is ok for girls to hold hands, give hugs to everyone, give kisses..but it isn’t ok for a boy to do so, for a boy to initiate a hug to someone who needs comfort, to hold their hand, to give a non-intimate kiss on the cheek. Boys aren’t allowed to publicly express their emotions, they aren’t allowed to express themselves because of the fear of sexual harassment. ” Which I understand, but there needs to be a balance. This, as a Mom, crushed me. I hadn’t realized how different the sexes are treated so differently, even in the school system until just then. He observed this his 4th year of public school. He was 12 at the time. ( I had the opportunity to be able to home school my boys for a while, then had to go into the work place.) I told him, that unfortunately, this is how things are right now, but if you ever feel the need to comfort someone, let them know that you are there for them, and if they ever need a hug or a hand to hold, it is ok with you.
Thank you for bringing to the masses what some of us have been feeling and struggling with how to articulate the conversation. This needs to be a part of every day conversation so we can be better as a society. So we can nurture and support each other better.
This is not “unfair”, it is the fault of male behavior. If sexual perversion and violence from boys and men were not customary patterns in society, then people may not be as suspicious or reserved about it. It would be quite silly and unreasonable to expect the general public to change social norms that are in place as a means of limited the prospect of something as egregious as sexual misconduct so your son is just going to have to accept the fact that people view and treat women/girls differently because we have different behavior and much lower levels of crime and perversion.
It may bother some men if they aren’t like that of course but -- what else is society supposed to do if not teach gender based boundaries and set the expectation that they be respected.
And yet boys will call each other ‘girls’ as an insult. Girls grow up hearing that their very existence is the worse thing a boy could be.
@@triggered577 there is conflict
@@trishajoy1645 boys will call each other girls as a put-down. Shouldn’t the ramifications of that be part of every day conversation as well?
@@lvl11717 the odd thing is, I never heard my boys call each other that, nor their friends..I don’t know if it is different elsewhere, or just in their group.. usually when one of them was at a crossroads of doing a difficult flip, trick, or turn in the crazy sports they all still do, they would encourage by having each other visualize the positive outcome..( they all participate in all of the different snow sports, as well as mountain biking, skateboarding, climbing, and mountain rescue) so I don’t know if the tactics that we heard as kids are still valid today..
I don’t understand why it’s so hard to have conversations where in a relationship, you just help where help is needed. No gender roles, just doing what needs to be done, regardless of gender. That’s how I’ve always seen things done in successful relationships. No gender roles, just people getting things done and helping where needed.
Love this.
Me either! It’s sadly hard to find others like this.
That's our house hold. Everyone pitches on. Myself, hubby and kids.
Simple!
This is how it's always been in my household. I was never raised with the divisive identity political narratives that are overtaking media and public life of present. It was always who needs help with what, get it done and switch. We still operate this way, although I do notice the younger generations in our family bringing up masculine/feminine roles. Bullocks really. Think in terms of energy (yin and yang) and recognize they can and do exist in different individuals, regardless of biology
34'20 sec ... Around 2015, while working on a project in Germany, I once offered a female colleague (from Sweden), who was preparing coffee for all the teams, to help her. Since we were many people, every day, one of the project teams had to prepare it for everybody else. As a Frenchman I translated my french way of thinking into english and I said : "can I help you ?". I will never forget her answer : "Arh ... that's true, women can't do it by themselves. They need a man to HELP them". I said nothing, I didn't even try to justify myself by saying that I would have offered the same hand to a male colleague considering the load of coffee to make. I left the room and, since then, wisely picked the women I could assist or open the door to. Only the elders. Since then, I no longer say "Can I help you", instead : "Can I be useful ?". The smart man knows how to solve problems, the wise one knows how to avoid them.
Your inability to counter and defend yourself, allow her to continue unabated.
@@retropancakeful In justifying yourself, you only accuse yourself even more. Beside, you would know that debating this topic with a scandinavian woman (considering the extent of the feminist movement there) is useless. But you don't.
Your content has always been well-thought-out and relevant. I learn every time. KUDOS!
Awesome conversation… Thank you. I loved that you said, “We’ve spent so long calling men out and now it’s time to call them in.” ❤
I agree ❤
I always hold the door open for anyone, male, female, old, young, ugly, attractive, abled, disabled. It is just common courtesy. I never knew it was supposed to be some big heroic, chivalrous thing done for attractive women only.
What a deeply meaningful, insightful and helpful conversation! Thank you
So in the unconscious behavior of men section ur answer is essentially “still do all the gentlemen like things that are only for the benefit of women BUT do it a world where men are treated as adversaries.”?
This was a good talk. I question his theory though. Many young men have no desire to become husbands and fathers. A lot of them don't even want serious relationships. Society can't give you a purpose if you don't want any responsibility or commitments to people.
It’s an egg and hen situation I guess. It’s like you know depressed people have no motivation and without motivation you don’t do stuff. And if you don’t do stuff you get depressed.
I agree that being father is not always the answer. But it’s to find situations that balance commitment with passion and engagement where the men are both leading and in control of the situation and also be used to accept situations controlled by others that they initially not would go for themself
@@litjellyfishstoicism and martial arts habw always been a sure fire way to fix things look at the shaolin monks celebit but are happy and strong u don't need a women there's different types of love epicurus teaches how friendship true pure friendship is the best love and u can only Foster that type of friendship through hard work and suffering together and martial arts a realy good way to do so mountain climbing also good anything hard to do physical and mentally
@@all9472 exactly. Then again if you want a woman that is normal and great. Just don’t hang up yourself on it.
And about purpose all that gets dopamine flowing is great. You don’t need to be a monk to do material arts. Sometimes a walk and a bit of mindful thinking is great. Problem is that many boys and girls in this time are not even exposed to that sadly
@@all9472 also you bring up a VERY impersonation point.
You don’t need a woman for all interactions. Heck even you should not have all types with a woman. Why. Becuase it’s seldom possible. And same goes for the woman.
A relationship with yourself.
Relationship with a partner
Relationship with male friends.
Relationships with elders.
And sometimes it’s also good to have relationships with children
And in today’s “modern” world I would add that a platonic (this is the hard part) relationship with a female friend can be good.
And none of those relationship should really need to be tied to the other types but stand alone. With as you mentioned the relationship with oneself
Pure personally the only relationship I don’t avocado for is the one with a god. If it works for people fine. Everyone needs sometimes to believe in something. I just don’t see that as mandatory. If that is a way to have your relationship with yourself so be it but I think one is perfectly fine with that without any religion.
Then there is great values that many religions have. But those values can be taken anyway without a belief of afterlife or a deity
That said I am talking about religion. Being spiritual is for me very different thing
I think you'll find many young adult men saying the same of women with regards to becoming a wife and mother. Both can be right, I think neither men and women have much interest in it.
Richard Reeves gives the best breakdown on the term “toxic masculinity” being an ‘empty set’ with the alternative terms we should use: “mature masculinity” and “immature masculinity”. I agree.
100%!
You can add "toxic" to describe anything. A term need not make or break anyone. Obviously toxic masculinity describes male aspects that go to an unhealthy point..like protectiveness turning to dominance. I'd think toxic femininity would mean women who use sex or attraction to prey on men. That makes sense and doesn't bother me as a term since it makes a rational point.
water is also toxic in too high a dose. Toxic basically means overdose, which in the context of masculinity is pretty apt.
Toxic masculinity is basically a derogatory term for the man who belongs and wishes to belong to his tribe. Customs and culture inherit. This postmodern experience is harmful because they are taking men out of their tribe, out of their pack their community. Shoving them into this multi cultural experiment. After tens of thousands of years in their tribes??? Are you insane?!
No need to water down. Some behaviors are just immature, sure. But some others are plainly TOXIC and dangerous and should be described as such.
I've never wanted men to be more or less masculine, I just want them to leave me be, to be who I am, too often there's a presumption in any interaction with men, platonic or non-platonic, that you're supposed to default to their preferences or ideas, they talk about female behaviour in derogatory ways i.e illogical, crazy, or 'emotional', which is always used as a negative...but when you accept their ideas or preferences, all of a sudden you're not illogical or crazy anymore; they struggle to see themselves as having equally valid opinions or thoughts, where your desires and theirs have equal value, they're either deferent, which is unattractive, or aggressive, which is also unattractive.
Many confuse masculinity with agression. Being masculine does not imply being agressive. It is nice to see a capable decisive man, you think to yourself "this man is able to protect me" until he turns against you. That is not fun anymore. The country I grew up in still hasn't solved the domestic violence issue and we're not talking about verbal abuse but broken ribs and jaws. Every cause has an effect. Girls see their mother's lives and learn, and they learn fast. We are where we are as a repercussion of past actions and maybe if, at some point, men learn to cherish the presence of a woman in their life things will get better. My ultimate goal in the rest of the life I have is to be safe, stress free and happy.
@@madapro03 This is what is working against men. No one is willing to take the risk, anymore, of finding out on which side of 'aggressive' they'll fall on, the hot side, or the side where they hurt or subdue you to protect their sense of self.
Steven, thank you so much for this conversation 🙏 you are such a great interviewer, you always ask the right questions and let your guests speak! 👍 we love your content and the people you bring to your show ❤️👍
*No man is too rich til you leave the earth you leave with nothing*
well at least the rich achieved something in life before that person dies. his kids will probably inherit the fortunes and pass on to the next generation. cycle of life.
true.but.i.wont.die.poor
We live in this earth, we gotta play our part...He's living life while he is still alive...
If you are not in the financial market space right now, you are making a huge mistake. I understand that it could be due to ignorance, but if you want to make your money work for you...prevent inflation
@@AnstettSkellyInteresting, This is superb! Information, as a noob it gets quite difficult to handle all of this and staying informed is a major cause, how do you go about this are you a pro Investor?
“We have a long list of don’ts for men but not a list of do’s for men”
That hit hard.
Society isn’t setting up society up for success.
Why can’t the script for men and women be the same? Stand on your own two feet, take care of yourself and your loved ones, be a good person
think that is partly because the feminist narrative is that men by default get to do everything so we have to be told what to stop doing. conversely they believe that women are inherently enslaved and prevented from doing anything and so have to be told what to do. And so are kind of expected to be paralyzed into inaction until given a directive otherwise.
That’s half the problem - men and women are different in several key ways so the same script for both doesn’t work!
@@bethboyle1479 Im not driven by standing on my feet, I just want to stand on others :/
And the list for women? Only the encouraging of every form of capital vice. This situation is very unstable and can not last. In the end, second wave feminism will dissaper
Really enjoying the show. Always compelling conversations. Thank you 🖤
This speaks to me on so many levels. Thank you for this.
For a long time I felt alone, even with family checking in every now and then. Sharing how I was feeling would make me feel vulnerable and so I would hide it, pretend I was all good. Now reflecting on those times I can see how much I took away from myself, it truly is a self destructive path. I have a long way to go, but fortunately I have made it through the other side, now my focus is on building and living a life I love and being the best dad I can be for my daughter. Conversations like this are incredibly important. For those of you that feel lost, being vulnerable with the right person/people is scary, but most importantly freeing and empowering, you are not alone.
Thank you. Much needed environment. Blessings of peace
I’m glad you’re doing well! It’s good to see men who enjoy fatherhood.
So true. Being vulnerable and asking for help can sometimes save one’s life.
My boyfriend opens my car door for me every time and I love it. When he does things like that, I realize that this is a man I can spend the rest of my life with because he is so consistent, reliable, and honors me when he does things like that for me. It’s important for us to remember our differences and not forget who we are so we can come together and create a better team. But if we try to pretend we’re not different and act like we’re the same, we forget our strengths and become good at nothing.
Good for you !
Because many of your "sisters" have taken to dumping Men for being "too nice".
When I open or hold doors for girls in public; they give me the most weirdest look as in it’s something from the 1800’s. Edit; I also do this with elderly; children and men,, other humans.
Well its always good living in the moment,
not constantly searching for some approval in our memory, because I read this nonsense, or I watched this news, or whatever.
So what do you do in return for him?
@@Stevo-klo45453hi, it's me, one of those girls🙋♀️ personally I'm weirded out by this because it's so rare and I'm not sure if there is an expectation attached to it, like to talk or what is the point of it. It feels a bit patronizing to me too but now I can see why some apreciate the gesture
I think he asked all the right questions and gave all the wrong answers to them.
The key point in my opinion was "We have changed the story for women. But the story for men is still the same". The reason i guess all these men are lacking the sense of being needed is because they expect to be needed in the first place. Think about it. The story for women has already changed from looking for a man to provide to provide for themselves. But men are still looking for a chance to provide, in a world no one needs a provider. And that is the reason i believe we see a lot of men depressed with the thought of being not needed and wanted coz they have been waiting for someone to need them in a world running on totally different rules than "The time of our ancestors". Coz no matter how many mens organizations you start, you will never be able to satisfy that need to be wanted, the need to be involved, in a world where anything is achievable with money. You cant just make men feel needed by screaming "We need you".
so in my opinion,
Men should stop thinking about themselves as providers. Men should stop thinking about themselves as someone born to protect, and safeguard and be a service to people specially women around them. Because you are not born to provide or protect or safeguard or be a helping hand to people around you, you are born to live. You are born to enjoy this limited number of minutes you have received on this planet. You are born to climb mountains or take a deep dive in the sea. You are born to experience the feeling of driving a toyota supra or build a business, or maybe create something new and make a change. Stop searching for someone else to provide and protect and someone else who need you coz you need yourself already.
This is the message i believe that should get across to men. To the men who are waiting to be a provider in a world that doesnt need providers. This i believe should be the new STORY of men.
I hope your son focused on buying HIS favorite car, instead of trying to be a service to someone else. And you advising them to "Be for others and serve" ? Coz you see, that is the exact type of men who take their own life if they did not receive that chance to be that provider. Men wanting a girlfriend who needs them, a wife who needs them, children who needs them, a workplace which needs them. And they take their own life after feeling useless coz we are actually living in a society where those entities actually doesn't really need men (some men succeeds in finding a place they are needed but clearly, most men doesnt. The suicide rates are the proof).
So i think Richard Reeves solutions and specially his definition of masculinity, is not helping this problem in any way but instead worsens the problem. Him still thinking men should think about themselves as service providers for others in a world where providers are need less each day and men are taking their own life for the absence of that feeling baffles me. He understood the problem but instead of solving it, conveyed a message that worsens the situation. Asking men to keep providing and expecting to be a service to someone after convincing women that they dont need men ? And still saying that even after getting to know that it IS the problem ? And his solutions are to get married ? And satisfy the feeling of being needed ? Even after he understands that women only target the top 10% ?
I think this man has stared something very important, cheers for that, but its sad to see him still walking in the wrong path. This man is just contradicting himself.
That's a lot of nonsense you wrote here, mate. You totally ignore biological component of humans and economic realities we live in. Do you by any chance believe that everything is a social construct?
@@kiorde can you explain what nonsense you talking about now ? and how that has anything to do with what i said
@@berealistic2703 sure! You say things like "men should stop thinking" like it's only the matter of choice. It is not. This thing is at the core of every culture in the world, which implies that it probably has roots in biology.
Another stupid thing is about life for enjoying every minute, climing hills, etc. It is definitely not, because we have a civilization to upkeep. While having a fulfilling life is indeed important, the main purpose of every person is to be useful: to build things, repair things, make and nurture new people. You describe goals for parasites, who'd like to think only about themselves. It is not what we should encorage, your goals are not for strong communities.
Yet another stupid thing you say about desire to be useful. If noone provides, everyone dies. You look down on people who make your life comfortable and even possible. Having work done is still very much required thing in this world. You probably don't see it or don't realise it - it's the only explanation I have for the ludicrous amount of nonsense coming from ya.
Terrific conversation guys, definitely a topic that needs to be recognized and talked about. Eye opening for men and women. Well done!
I'm a 78 year old male just sitting here crying thru much of this. Have lost so much over the last couple of years all of which has led to some horrible loneliness. My late wife as well as my later girl friend provided my social network. Now like many men I'm on my own and as has been discussed not doing well with building my own. In fact, failing. A very hard time. And wow, are those evenings hard
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@@tomd5178 Try visiting your local Senior Center. They have activities and lots of things to do. Don't give up Tom! Btw...sorry for your losses.
@ThePonyd You looking for a daddy lol
78 years, crying? Oh boy
Loneliness can be so bad :( I hope that it passes for you and that you can find lots of good connections again. I hope that there are some lovely neighbours, people near you that are also looking for connection as well. My Dad is on his own after my mum died and he is a similar age to you. Sending love.
My brother died my suicide when I was a teen. No judgement - he was in so much pain that the alternative seemed less painful. Little did he know how much we love him and miss him always. The struggle is real.
We have to encourage communication from our masculines.
🙏💜
Was he isolated?
@@LaLaJonesGThat to a male says that y'all don't actually care.
The whole time women were extremly dependent on men still is, what they are not dependent anymore is on husbands, that's what modern men needs to understand.
2 hours well spent! Thank you for your content. We need you ❤
I think the script for women changed to "you can have a career ON TOP OF being a wife and mother" so schools and society set about adding into our load. But men have rarely been taught about parenting or housekeeping to ensure that the workload is divided equally. That is still seen as a feminine role, and many men feel emasculated by doing it... whereas women don't feel effeminated (?? is there even a word???) by working. We need to change attitudes around this work and normalise men doing it as something that needs to be done, not as a man's/ women's role. And we need to teach that the connection from these sorts of things, like having close relationships with your kids, is rewarding.
Why should men, who already do a lot, have to do more just because women want to do more?
It's not men's fault that women want EVERYTHING and don't want to make sacrifices for what it is they want. In my opinion, you choose career or you choose family, you can't do both unless you want to do a substandard job at both. I dont see why, as a man, I should do a 72 hour work week and then on top of that, do 50% of the house chores and child rearing which women have an advantage over men at anyway.
I'm going to play an active role in my children's lives, but i won't have a lot of spare time to do that, I dont want to waste valuable time I could be teaching my children life lessons with, cleaning a toilet.
@@lzl3lol You're not even conceptualising a partnership. This exemplifies the actual problem. Why do you think it's intrinsically a woman's job to do the toilet? Why should she do it if she is tired? Why don't you consider that you want everything if you want to have kids, a clean house and a job? Why don't you sacrifice having kids for your job? Just work if you can't do both. I imagine you (would) use the money your wife makes, you don't sacrifice that.
@@MarthaAnthony a partnership doesn't just mean split things 50/50 down the middle. Both men and women have their advantages and disadvantages.
I never said it was intrinsically a womans job, I clean my own toilet now as a single man. However, considering that I've always put in significantly more hours at work than any of my past partners because they wanted a "work life balance" compared to me who understands that for me to have a family, I have to make sacrifices in regards to my work life balance to get ahead, it's not unreasonable for them to clean the toilet for 3 minutes.
I'll give you an example:
my ex worked 45 hours a week and i was working 72 hours, 6 on 2 off, 12 hour shifts, day/night rotating
we had no children,
I was investing 800+ a month into savings and investments so I could grow a pot to buy us a home,
on top of that, I was also paying a larger % of the bills, which I offered due to me working more and she accepted.
She never saved a penny, she never invested a penny, she spent all her money buying things from amazon, etsy, seeing her friends/family, etc even to the point of spending the rent money and then lying to me about it. I accepted all of that and shouldered the burden alone, only having 4 years to achieve it all before we were talking about beginning a family.
She started arguing with me because she felt it was unfair that I didn't do 50% of the cleaning. How is that fair exactly? So no, I didn't use the money my ex made, because she contributed nothing.
@lzl3lol It's comical that you think the 3 minutes cleaning a toilet would hinder you from giving your children "life lessons". If anything, your 72-hour per week job is preventing time with your kids, not cleaning toilets lol. Just say you don't want to do any housecleaning in the place you reside in.
The reason why is because society emasculates males for wanting to be caretakers, or vilifies them, for no reason whatsoever. The main reason why male teachers, especially at younger ages quit, for instance, it's because of harassment from staff and parents.
Stop calling men gay, a woman, or a predator and you'll see that change.
The first step to successful investment is figuring your goals and risk tolerance either on your own or with the help of a financial professional but it's very advisable you make use of professional.
I know Laura, she has really set the standard for others to follow, we love her here in the UK as she has been really helpful and changed lots of lives.
You're right! The very first time I tried, I invested $2000 and after a week, I received $8,400. That really helped us a lot to pay up our bills.
Interesting! But I'm new here. How can I get to this person's guidelines??
SHE IS ON TELEGRAMs
Absolutely amazing pod cast so much rings true keep up the amazing work you do Steven it really helps and brings so much awareness and understanding to so many topics ❤️❤️🙏🏼
So tender and well considered which is what makes this also highly authoritative. Thank you for this
At 1:30( A close guesstimate in your podcast), your guest mentions that men prefer conversations side to side. I too prefer side to side conversations. The only reason that I can think of is that there is less pressure or overstimulation. I used to be a huge fan of eye contact, because I was taught that it shows respect and confidence. As I have gotten older, I’ve come to prefer side to side. A teacher that I used to work with(I work in Special Education, with students who need extra help with social and emotional learning.), introduced me to side to side communication. It made it easier to communicate with my peers(I am working on overcoming social anxiety.). I have no problem giving eye contact to kids and connect with them well.
i'm guessing the reason why women like face to face, generally speaking, is to see the other person's face. it helps to inform what feeling you should feel but also read their face on if they are telling the truth of BSing. That is to help with social games and maneuvering. Us guys we tend not to engage with such things, but rather the only reason you'd look someone in the eye is to assert dominance. That is the big reason two men would do so is if a fight was about to happen. Someone is about to get hurt. So there is a natural sense of challenge to it. Most of the time when talking to other men this is not our intent. Also, much of the time when us guys talk its either to communicate what we are doing or to take our minds off what we are doing. Most masculine tasks aren't things where you can quietly sit face to face and chat while doing.
There are other theories to this which likely tie into the up above stuff and i've heard it from interrogation experts. Sitting across from each other is more adversarial. It is more of what you would do when wanting to pick a fight. More for when lying, bullying, dominance, and other such social games or manipulation. Sitting side by side is more cooperative and friendly. And so depending on how an interrogator wants to approach a witness, or suspect, they will either sit across from or adjacent to the person so as to help crack them open.
plus i think there are more romantic scenes in movies where the couple is sitting side by side as opposed to face to face.
Simon sinek's episode also mentioned about preferring being next to someone when talking instead of facing them, or something along those lines
This is also a good way to have an important conversation with teenagers of any gender. Side by side in a vehicle, or doing a side by side task. It allows for a deeper topics to be addressed and the ability for the hearer to process while not being starred at.
Ultimately we’re all slaves to the same master. Continuous economic growth at all costs with rising inequality.
🎯🤝🏿💯💯💯
Yes and 99% of men are at the butt end of that story today
Yes. Slavery has not gone away, it has merely changed its form. It used to be driven by force and violence and now it is driven by the lie that we are "free". Which we are not because you need a job and income to survive and those jobs are working 8 hours per day, 300 days per year, until you are old and broken down. All to serve the people at the top who enrich themselves on whatever corporate slavery job you do.
Based
inequality drives innovation, change and the struggle to regulate yourself in an everchanging world. This is positive. If there was true equality and stagnation, then there would be no change and a loss of purpose and meaning to do anything because complacency would be inevitable given the human psyche is biased towards this.
I know that people generally rag on video games, but hearing all this talk about the desire to feel needed I have to say that video games can actually play a role here for men who are not married or who don't get much fulfillment from work. Particularly online games where people organize guilds that work together toward common goals.
Also, for a lot of men, the problem isn't that they are playing too much video games instead of going outside and interacting with possible mates. The problem is that they are playing video games specifically to avoid interacting with women after one too many bad interactions. It's not that they are ill equipped to find a woman, it's that they have determined that there are no women worth finding.
A big problem is that many men want a “traditional wife” but don’t actually want to provide. They want a woman to do all the cooking, cleaning, 99% of the child care and also want her to work because the man doesn’t want her to have “his money”. And then if they do choose to provide and have a woman be a homemaker, they then say that she shouldn’t be entitled to any of “his money” if they divorce because she wasn’t working and was “leeching off him”.
If you are not a traditional man you cannot get a traditional wife. What you said about women doing the housework would be an argument if most men didn't work more hours and dangerous jobs or atleast they do in the non soy west. Working in retail or working on a construction site is not the same thing.
I live in the western EU and I haven't met a single man who wants a stay-at-home wife. Sounds like out-of-date internet rubbish.
@@rodneydelboy6910 I don't know a single guy who works in a dangerous job
@@thesupergreenjudy I live in eastern europe that's why I said that. Most of the men I know do dangerous jobs like construction,diving,welder,sailor.
I’ve been a stay at home wife/mom since getting married 18 years ago. My husband works hard to provide for us. He always says “our” money, “our” house, etc. Sometimes I will say your truck or your paycheck and he is quick to correct me that’s it’s ‘ours’.