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I have shingled a few hundred roofs in my time, taken off shingles 30 plus years old tar paper under them was in amazing condition could have reused it(but did not) the huge benefit of the new underlay is the strength , it will not tear off the roof on a windy day if installed correct, tar paper tends to tear off. My experience.
Just had a new roof put on, pretty sure with adhesiive rain and ice underlay. Subcontractors took a shortcut and put it over bad wood on the garage. I can see the underlayment through 2 holes. What kind of repair is that going to involve - whole side of garage, bad section only? Just trying to be prepared if they BS me.
It would be good to talk about code requirements for ice barriers and where they are required to be used. I would also like to see you go over the correct way to install a drip edge on the eave and gable ends of the roof. A lot of roofers do not understand the concept of protecting a roof from back up especially if you have gutters. The membrane is taken over the edge and down behind the drip. Then the drip is installed followed by flashing tape to seal the leading edge of the drip.
@@manictiger That is the very purpose of codes-with out them customers would complain consistently and demand something done with codes people complain they have to follow them-you can't win
I’d like to see a video of real world testing of underlayment. Putting 15# felt paper, 30# felt paper, synthetic paper and ice and water down then soak it with artificial rain aka a hose and see how protective it is and for how long. That’s a video I’d give a thumbs up to.
When the installer is preforming a demo with a synthetic underlayment. The roofers have to remove the shingles but not with pitch forks. That’s like picking up a vacuum sealed potatoes with a folk. For lack of a better analogy. They have to remove the pins from each place they were secure. safe to say the synthetic IS superior over felt. But I would be curious about. Is ice and water barrier cost effectiveness and how do you make the customers experience exclusive. Great question 👍 its extremely hot in Texas. I’ll tell you what.
@@StallionFernando I once did do a whole entire house of 45 square of pure grace ice and water how ever haz put that underlayment nows it a pay in the everything in summer time with that material but I have to say very very recommended I've heard it can stay up to 2 months on the roof with no shingles layed and it won't come off or leak we actually left the roof exposed for the night because of some home owner difficulties with the sells man and had a bit of rain come through that night and there where no leaks through chimney nor roof boot intakes nothing but the home owner had a big pocket he daily drives a Bentley
I've been roofing since the 70's. Still do. A roof done right with proper attic venting doesn't need any underlayment. I do put that crap on but I know it doesn't help.
I totally agree. I’m a framer and have been for 30 years. I put the roof on my own house 28 years ago. I used ice and water at the eves and in the valleys and no tar paper because back then, I too thought it was unnecessary. I just ripped it off today and guess what…the 5/8 osb(16”o.c. rafters) was beautiful!! Like you said, if you vent it good and do the right thing, you don’t need that crap! I feel totally vindicated today for all the times I couldn’t get a good answer out of “professionals” for why you should use felt paper. Now I can take those 2 rolls of Tiger Paw back! lol! Thanks for being a voice of reason. Also, I hate roofing!😁
That one spot where you show the video of it raining and it looks like the problem I’m having, I just got new gutters and when it’s pouring out it looks like the water is coming out from the eaves where it meets the gutter
If I had extra blueskin SA, could I use that as an underlayment for a shed? It being slippery isn’t a big deal, it’s a small shed. I’m just wondering more about the shingles adhering. Actually they get nailed so it shouldn’t matter…. Right?? Lol
I was look for a simple was and cheep way to seal up a roof that I got to remove peel and stick and I heard you asking about the fiber glass under lay ment I have used for my torch down roof cover over &I used fiberglass under lament on a motel roof over ,the roof was the old style rubber mat style small pitch flat roof, it was wrong down but still in good shape it just need a top cover I used some cold process adhesive and used the fiberglass felt or under lay ment ,for the top cap ,the fiberglass mixed in whit the felt gives the rool a dark gray look with the white fiberglass , the tools are 36" wide so when I roofed and rolled the rool out over the adhesive ,I went over with a 30" sod roller then my over lap was 16 "All they way thru the roof were 16 " joints there a small pitch on the roof but all in all the fiberglass under lay ment is hela strong and seals what ever you use it on !!
Licensed since 85…I tried the synthetic & liked them- but-a friend had “numerous” leaks with synthetic & determined that the synthetic was tearing at the nail, the synthetic didn’t hug the roof adequately & put to much pressure around the nail…I went back to Astm #30- 2 layers if the roof is a rock to composition conversation or under 4/12 pitch- always use peel & stick in valleys..If I’m going over 1x6’s some times I’ll upgrade to modified felt..
the issue is using just nails and not nails or staples with plastic caps as per specification on the install instructions from most, if not all the manufacturers Been using synthetic for about 5 years, we've never had a single leak or tearing. Some synthetics are thicker than others, such as GAF's Felt Buster Vs their Tigerpaw. when using the Felt Buster, you need to pull it tight as you're rolling and Stapling with the Stinger caps at the same time. It is a learning curve going from tar paper to synthetic
Dmitry explain the importance of putting synthetic underlayment over ice and water shield so many don't and when we go back to tear off shingles their melted together and will not come off it's uninspected and crucial to reroofing a home
I'm getting ready to change my roof. The rep that came out wants to put a warer barior on the botom & sides. He's pushing the gaf products. Then tiger paws underlamet I live in oregon Mild Winters 6:51 . Some snow but not too much, lots of rain.
From Insights: 00:32 Purpose of underlayments 01:16 Asphalt/felt/tar paper 02:00 Synthetic felt/underlayment 03:02 Ice and water shield 03:50 High temp ice and water shield 04:52 Base sheet
well...not exactly. You may be a good roofing "salesman" but i doubt you possess a roofing license. I have 25+ years in roofing as a state and city licensed, certified contractor. Felt is, principally, a vapor barrier NOT waterproofing. And that is why it is technically classified as such. You will (I promise) blast 1000s of holes through your fancy "waterprooof" felt when you nail your shingles through it. Still a "waterproof barrier"? Of course it isn't and you know it. The actual origin of felt usage is interesting - you should read about it but it had nothing to do with being a part of a "waterproof roof system" - suffice to say for decades roofers didn't even install it (I've torn off roofs with no felt and they were perfectly fine for the 30 year shingle service life). Felt was made for the homeowner to "dry-in" his roof when a father/son DIY'd it because it took them weeks - and it was a common thing back in early 1900s America. Basically - felt was a tarp but then the manufactures realized they could get everyone to "value-add" to the job and it became taboo not to install felt when everyone knew that in most cases, it was unnecessary. Kinda like the way "government" has become "necessary". If you install shingles properly, the felt is superfluous. Felt is rarely actually necessary - says so in most shingle application manuals in fact it used to not even be a warranty requirement until they realized they could force you to buy/use "their" branded product and spend even more on fancy stuff that was totally unnecessary. Yes, below 4/12 pitch you need to provide more than a vapor barrier because in the absolute worst storms, it is possible for a shingle system to be defeated but it is still rare even below that pitch and most homes are 4 or better. But these fancy peel n stick ice and water shields are BS and not necessary. You know and i know that the manufacturers are just creating expensive fancy products so you make your jobs "sound" better than the other guys and that's all fine - EXCEPT when you guys go and start saying that roofers are "cutting corners" by not installing this. No - they're saving their customer's money by not installing it. A shady roofer will say he is installing something when he isn't. A pro will not charge you for - and not install - something you don't need because he knows his roof does not need it in order not to leak - just like his dad's and his grandad's didn't need it. Bottom line is that there certainly all sorts of roof scenarios and sometimes you need something extra but any real licensed roofer can explain those. But don't run around trying to make other roofers out to be the bad guy, when you're just installing crap your customer's don't even need - because you might just get called out by a 3rd generation certified master. PS: I've seen installs you posted on YT; standard ridge on a dimensional? overspray and wrong paint code for flashing? one inch exposure at the eves? valley metal on normal pitch? all mistakes. Monkey see, monkey doo - someone taught you wrong.
Hi Dimitry - if I am having new shingles installed should the underlayment be from the same manufacturer? I think you mentioned in one of your videos ( Best Roofing Shingles?) that a consumer should check to make sure the accessories are the same so it doesn't cancel/compromise the warranty. If it doesn't void the warranty, I am looking to install Owen Corning TruDefinition Duration - what would be the best ice & water shield underlayment?
@@mrwhiteinca interesting, right now everyone wants to build the perfect house but is difficult to find someone that really knows about it. So far I've learned the following (but I guess some of this information is wrong) 1.that the shingle needs to be light colored and sealed with clear acrylic coating 2. That the felt has to be waterproof 3. That a radiant barrier is needed underneath the plywood 4. That's mandatory to insulate and seal the inside of the roof with spray foam 5. That a vapor barrier and/or vapor retarder is needed in the inside as a final layer before the ceiling installation 6. Roof venting is always a must no matter the layers of insulation 7. Building an attic helps the owner to be aware of any damage 8. The roof framing with metal is better than wood I'm not a professional as you can tell, but the above is what the so called experts teach online, maybe not everything is wrong.
@@mrwhiteinca I'm just trying to find out, if it's ok to use the tar paper under my metal panels to help prevent condensation inside my trailer instead of that expensive stuff?? And NO ONE will answer my question. I'm starting to think NO ONE KNOWS!! 🙄
@@eduardomaradiaga5868 the so called experts online, can not give me a simple direct yes or no answer as to weather or not, I can or can not, use the tar paper under metal panels to help prevent condensation inside my metal trailer roof. So I really don't think the so called experts online, know any more than the people that get online looking for a direct and honest answer!! 🙄
CertainTeed makes the fiberglass felt paper. It's banded as Roofer Select. I hate using it, leaves me itchy for a day or two so where long sleeves and Pants if you're not use to handling it. Don't get excited either, it tears just as easily as 15 & 30 ibs paper and if it gets rained on before you install, it wrinkles up and takes forever to dry flat again Never going back to it since we've been bringing in Felt Buster and Tigerpaw from GAF, I couldn't imagine going back to Tar paper
My 6 yr old roof bit the dust in Hurricane Ian in FL. My insurance adjuster said it was in good shape. I lost all the cap shingles and more. An independent public adjuster told me I need a new roof that the gutters are FULL of gravel or whatever you call it to not clean it out it’s evidence. We had 8 hrs of 150 mph winds for 8 solid hours. I’m trying to educate myself but so confused. I want to know what questions to ask when choosing a roofer. Probably 1 in 3-5 houses here are tarped or have a new roof. 😮
Any cons to using ice & water on entire roof decking? I've read its not recommended because it doesn't allow roof to breath but by code it us required on bottom edges and flashing tape is required on plywood seams so I don't understand how that is any different! Thanks
How come I tear off hundreds of roofs with zero underlayment and ice and water membrane and they're bone dry. 4/12 pitches too...3 tab. Personally I think it's easier to go straight when you can see the deck. And if you want you can see the rafter lines so you can throw a nail or two per shingle into the rafters for added hold. Correct me if I'm wrong?
I have heard of "breathable" roofing underlay, much like the "air barriers" used on walls that allow moisture vapour to pass thru, but not water that may have entered the roof cavities. This would be a product typically used under vertically strapping, which would be termed the second roof. Such a product would only be nailed thru at the vertical strapping and would have horizontal strapping spaced above it. A video discussing these products and methods of application would be brilliant.
What about cost comparisons for all these underlayments? The paper-type (first one) is old school, and, a home owner, I would prefer something better! Thank you for vid! Very helpful to know about this, so that people can see if contractors/roofs would do a good job both at labor AND materials they charge the customers!
I'm an idiot at roofing and I Don't like ice and water barrier from Owens cornering. I do love their synthetic felt. I can tell you the synthetic felt held with cap nail until 60mph winds. The ice and water completely held in those wind without me really worrying about it much. The reason I don't like the ice and water is if the nails are not fully sank it will protrude through your intended barrier. It says to use a fifty-pound roller I used a ten and it was a mess. Only one side will have ice and water barrier the other side I'm doing two layers of synthetic felt instead. Time will tell if it's a good idea or not
And I can give you the numbers on the current day cost on both 268 ft of like 4ft wide synthetic felt costs is $99.99 or less Ice and water 70 ft about 4ft wide was $99.99 or less
Let's think about a re-shingle job on an existing house. What is the main importance or purpose of the underlayment? It' not put on primarily as a secondary leak stopper. It's put on because unless you are putting new shingles over the old, it is YOUR ONLY leak stopper, until the roof is finished. I've heard of some underlayments that won't even hold water. What sense is that?
We need to replace the roofing on a relatively small gazebo. We need 8 triangles and have available standard asphalt shingles. Trying to figure out the best way to tackle this small project. We are older but in decent shape to get up and off of ladders. The center hole is not large enough to get up into, so have to approach from the edges.
I was told to use up to 50 pound tar paper to make the shingles last longer because when heat penetrates your shingles the more value of tar paper the heat does not burn the shingles up. The elastomeric underlayment goes on edges, valleys, and the crown roof vents. You have a great opportunity to use many different underlayment for different conditions and get maximum longevity out of your roof shingles. Always go with architectural…. 3 tab is a horrible choice. Spend the money…. Buy once cry once… and if it is applied right…. You will not outlive your roof
I've used the fiber glass paper basically it's just like fire resistant and I didn't believe it at first because it's just like tar paper it's black and rolled up so I teard a peace got a lighter and tried to make it burn and as soon as I let go of the lighter it would completely light out ND it didn't really burn it would just turn in to some thing similar to sand not even ashes I've only used it once don't recall the brand either
I am a home inspector in Kentucky and we have a lot of metal roofs around us. Can you talk about what type of underlayment is good, better and best for that application?
I read you shouldn't put shingles directly on ice shield because they will adhere to the shield and years later when they are being removed they can't easily get them off without removing the ice shield too.
well. Thats due to the tar adhesive on the back of the shingles. Shingles also stick to shingles underneath, plywood, pretty much whatever you lay shingles ontop of, the shingle will adhere to when it gets warm that first time. however, if you are pulling shingles off the roof I assume you are replacing the roof. you wouldnt want to reuse the undeayment anyhow. so,
We just need good or great installers that care how to install any of them properly. Sad to say, but most installers are either don’t care or suck, they just want to get any jobs done asap and don’t care if they install it correctly!
We used the peel and stick flintastic stuff on our treehouse roof. It's confusing because as a non roofer I was thinking for a minute I had to put felt on tope of the flintastic underlayment. ~~ I guess I don't have to. It's not a crucial job and the hexagonal treehouse is open on two sides, but we still want a decent roof.
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Thanks for sharing and to the point we are going to be putting a tin roof on our roof and would love to see a video on your high temp ice and water shield in I’m looking forward to seeing one of your videos
Why not 30 lb. tar paper down first (not with staples -- round plastic cap), then a layer of Polyglass "Polystick MX" self-adhered, then one layer of architectural shingles?
From a daily roofer that is dedicated to roofing I do not recommend hi temp iva and water it’s one of the worst brands the tar literally cracks and falls if it’s not hot enough. The 30 pound felt is my choice in my opinion because it’s actually better against water and it’s basically almost a water shield because of the coating of tar . Synthetic is going to be my choice on a steep roof because synthetic doesn’t rip apart like 30 pound felt
@@eddiespagetti8395 people seem to forget that felt has a self sealing ability . Synthetics do not. Tearing on the roof is not a big problem, holes through the paper, much more of a problem,.
Used Resito eves protec as first underlay and then a membrane underlay. The eave trim is over the resisto and the membrane is overlapping the eave trim. The Resisto acts to seal screws and do it's normal job. I used a GE product to adhere the 3 inches of membrane at the eve trim. Used Butyl tape for all seams and Gable trim. Including valleys. Bought large closures for the ridge cap.
New roof installed. Found out subcontractors didn't remove bad wood over part of garage. It has ridge venting and should have used some sort of adhesive underlayment like rain and ice. Went into the loft and you could see the underlayment through 2 softball size holes in the wood. Do they need to redo the whole side of the garage or can the rain and ice be merged with existing work so only the bad section needs replaced?
I used zip system on my roof. Installing Epdm over it . The adhesive doesn’t stick to liquid flash and flashing tape. Going to try 3M™ Hi-Strength 90 which Huber says sticks to their product. Was considering blue skin in my scupper trough but will have to test this adhesive on that as well.
Unfortunately you used the wrong product. If you are using EDPM a ZIP System sheathing is not compatible. Also ZIP System sheathing should be used on a roof with a slope greater than 2/12. I hope this helps.
@@captainmo3064 Yes you are correct however . I feel confident it is completely sealed. Flashing and liquid flashing around all edges . No seams in the membrane. The 5/8ths zip roof sheathing was completely sealed as well with no leaks for about a month of storms before I got the membrane down.
I'm reading a few comments about leakage around the nail heads. Would a liquid flashing help seal that? Also, if you use ZIP sheathing on the roof, would you also need an underlayment (after taping or liquid-flashing the seams)?
Please recommend solutions to get rid of tar smelling inside my house after new roof installed 1 year ago. Roofing company used 30# tar paper, dimensional, architectural shingles. The tar smell is unbearable during high temperature weather and when the A/C is running. Thank you!
thanks for this educational video, author talked about ice and water shield which it directly stick to the decking then put the regular underlayment over it, but at time 3:35 why the ice and water shield put on top on the regular underlayment ? or it doesn't really matter the order. anyone know why ? thanks
The trouble with the roofing in the USA . They seem to just expect that the tiles slate etc are not going to keep the water out . Whereas in uk and Europe our roofs firstly very little shingles just for sheds and out buildings . Then concrete tiles and slate are there to keep the water out . The problem you have is the roof pitch in many cases far too shallow. And tye rain doesn't come off roof quickly.
Where can I find the current pricing per roll for this Malarkey Arctic Seal underlayment? Just had a new roof installed, and the contractor should have put the Malarkey Arctic Seal, but instead used GAF Feltbuster! This seems like a breach of contract. Would I have recourse to make the roofer do my roof again to put the Arctic Seal underlayment? I ordered the Malarkey Vista shingles too, and now I need to confirm those are the shingles on my roof (they had brought the Highlander shingles the day before, and I told them about the error).
My house was built in 1980 and has a concrete tile roof and I'm not the original owner. However, the builders made the roof without any subroof ... just flat 1x6 horizontal slats under the tiles. You can easily see daylight looking out the attic space. Having my roof replaced because a couple edge tiles have broken off. Just deciding whether I want (concrete vs. ceramic) tiles or composite/asphalt roof (with a completely added subroof). Your recommendations? I live in California's central valley where we get winter lows in the 20's F and summer highs in the 110s. This video is helpful. Thanks!
How about permeability? Wouldn't a non permeable underlayment similar to poly trap moisture between it and the shingles? Wouldn't moisture that condensed under the poly after install have nowhere to go except soak your decking?
I used to install the synthetic, installed it on a couple of new construction jobs and had leaks around the nail heads so I went back to 30lb. Have you had similar issues?
I install the synthetic with a Plastic cap nailer or Stinger stapler. Also, the synthetic underpayment is never meant to be waterproofing. Technically, as soon as you penetrate any undergarment, it ceases to be leak proof, that's why proper shingle installation s so important, especially on 3 tab on less than 8:12 in windy areas where wind driven rain is a concern
Please suggest which of these underlayment combination is best for Florida? -1 layer of weather lock G Granulated Ice and water and 1 layer of Rhino synthetic -2 layers of RhinoRoof synthetic underlayment and WeatherLock Specialty Tile and Metal for the high temp water barrier at all valleys, along walls, and around roof penetrations. -1 layer of RhinoRoof® Granulated Self-Adhered Underlayment
Actually, the best in Florida at this moment will be SharkSkin Ultra laid at 3/4 exposure with a 6" grid spacing using 1-1/4" ring shank nails. System is Florida approved @ -210 psf and carries a 50 year limited manufacturer warranty. Oh and exposure is 1 year.....Ain't gonna find nothing better than that!
Most roof leaks that develop over time are from missed placed nails in the shingle during installation that rust out over time and allow water to penetrate causing a leak, there's nothing wrong with good old' 15 or 30lb felt paper, Proper installation is the key,
Exactly. Plain old felt has worked for decades. It's all about more profit and sales. They invent new membranes and most end up being crap anyhow. Stick to felt is wise choice
Thanks RI. Can you tell us more about the moisture permability of the underlayments?For example felt/tar paper will allow moisture to escape. If water vapor is not allowed to escape wont the wood sheathing eventually rot? Thats what I worry about with these new plastic underlayments.
I know that Malarkey makes a synthetic underlayment that is breathable. It is their premium grade underlayment. Find it on their website. Maybe others do too, IDK.
Please explain how any underlayment other then ice and water sheald is water proof after I just put 8 thousand nail holes in it. Truth is under payment is a vaper berier. Most roofing will sweat on the underside, with the change of temperature. Hens the term vaper bearier.
Thus why tar paper is the best underlayment. It has oils in it that help protect the wood. It also breaths and can dry back out. Vs the others create moisture underneath and traps in the moisture underneath it because it’s synthetic plastic, can not dry out. Rots the wood and creates mold. Thus the old trusted thick tar paper comes out the winner.
I mean, it’s underlayment. Sure it’s part of the roofing system, but it’s not the roof. Underlayment is a vapor barrier and nothing more. Besides the ice and water shield it is not meant to stop water penetration once the roof is installed. After all there are thousands of nail holes in it after you install the shingles. The best part about a good underlayment is how walkable it is on a steep roof. I’ve tried plenty of synthetics, but in my opinion 30 pound felt it’s still the best.
I sell a lot of metal roofs. I don't know any roofer in my area who would agree with that. (Pacific Northwest, Gulf Islands, Canada). I get a lot of homeowners going for cheap, especially because some of their projects are small square footage, so they can't wrap their heads around the cost of a 10 square roll of synthetic, but I can't think of an actual roofer who is still using felt here. My 2 bits.
Ice and water shield IS meant to stop water penetration! It's exact job it to stop water that's laying on top of ice dams from penetrating the roof deck once it travels back up under the shingles.. as for the 'hundreds of holes' ice and water shield seals around the nails.
A roofer told me that he always uses 3 layers of underlayment. The top one is the ice n water shield, which he says would seal the nail holes. Is that correct?
Question for anyone. When applying new flat flat deck material, can you use tar paper for underlayment or not bc of fire hazard? I've tried to tell the homeowner that I don't think paper is what you want to use. If anyone can help out with a bit of insight I would appreciate it
Great information. I'm building new home and only have synthetic felt on right now. Heavy rain today and spotted some leaks. Spoke to the builder who check it out but is this common on a roof that doesn't have shingles on?
The entire point of felt is so your roof doesn’t leak before the shingles go on..If your roof is leaking as a result of the pipe flashing collar not being sealed or some other applicational error that’s not the underpayment fault but if the felt is tearing at the shank of the nail that’s the underpayment fault..In 40 years of roofing thousands of homes #30 ASTM felt has never been an issue..
Can you put ice and water underlayment on top of the titanium underlayment. We have a roof leak and when we reroof I don't want any chance of it leaking again 😊
I live in El Paso TX (79821) Its Very Sunny, Very HOT and Dry. Is there a thermal barrier that we can install between the underlayment and the Asphalt shingle?
Use #28 fiberglass base, it doesn’t hurt giving it less exposure for flame protection…Dibiten is the best torch down period..they use imported crushed slate flakes from Europe..It’s not cool roof compliant in California but a cool roof coating can be applied once finished..Make sure there is an overflow on all seams and side laps, if not get the roofer back…in 30 plus years of installing 2 roofs a week I’ve yet to have one wear out…
I had corrugated sheets installed on wood after removing tegolas. My roof is leaking now, and I was hoping there's an undercover I can use. My roof is very large. The property is in the hot topics.
Great video. Getting a new roof this summer and now I know what to ask for and when they talk about underlayment, I understand now. Very helpful and informative. Thank you, Mr Simmons.
Unless your in Alaska or a state that is minus 10 or colder winters lots of snow ect , you do not need to waste money on this stuff. Regular 30 pound felt has worked since the 1950s. This is all profit sales pitch for the contract
Ive been researching this for months and can't get a solid answer. 2x6 fiberglass, conditioned attic, in NV zone5, (-10f with snow to 115f), high wind application. I want to install a metal roof with an air gap. my only question is, is it safe to install peel and stick (zero perm) onto entire roof deck? Im concerned that interior moisture could start adding up in the fiberglass. I like peel and stick for the benefit of sealing around penetrations.
Sharkskin self adhered synthetic paper is something I’ve just come across recently. They are using it for UV protection on areas where the high temp underlayment is to be exposed more than 90 days on the project I’m on. Other than that I really like Carlisle’s WIP products and any shingle paper that has cool pictures/animals on it. Rhinos, whales, elephants, etc.
one roofer that didn't serve my area (which was my 1st choice roofer), said he only uses malarkey udl 80#. He claimed its the only underlayment that self seals around nails. Is very heavy which is why no one uses it. Thoughts on that one?www.dhtconstructionwa.com/uploads/4/7/9/2/47926495/rightstart-udl-tech-data-2015.pdf
Good video. I would think/like to have it explained in more detail about felt and synthetic felt why its required. Most people think vapor barrier and it is a fire code issue (slow down the burn if there is a fire) synthetic taking the place of both a vapor barrier and fire code vs felt just more so on the fire code. We use the HT (high temp) primarily only on metal roofing, some of the Best in my opinion is the Shark Skin underlayment
@@roofingtips We have only used it when doing metal roofing. When doing long panels you want the best grip on your feet I just feel as its not as slick as grace underlayment (who also makes a good HT ice shield) Iv never used it for anything else but the surface is easy and safe to work on and it provides a really good barrier.
Can i use the synthetic underlayment just by itself? I watch a video where a guy said to place and ice and water shield under the Synthetic underlayment. is it necessary or just an added layer of protection? Thank you for the info.
Thanks for your video on underlayment. I live in CT. and am having leaks over sunroom.I had solar panels installed on a roof with a 2/12 pitch. Should the solar Co. have recommended and or checked for an underlayment before installing my panels?
Absolutely, they should have inspected the roof before the solar install. I had solar installed one year ago and the installer did a thorough inspection on my concrete tile roof beforehand and also provided a roof penetration warranty for 24 months. I checked in the attic after the first rain and saw no evidence of any leaks. Check your contract for a similar roof penetration warranty. Good luck.
I have the underlayment that was like the first one you talked about…i have a small hole in it and want to know if I could use the water and ice self sticky underlayment to go over the hole of the torn underlayment to seal it and put the tile back on it?
I have a low pitch roof that has a granulated rolled roof here inHot Humid Florida. I want to upgrade to a shingled roof, but I don't want to remove the existing roof. My question is, what type of underlayment can I use over the rolled roof?
I'd like to know how it reduces your heating bill because most attics are ventilated and designed to be close to the exterior temperature. A product that adds or retains heat would tend to melt the snow and create ice dams.
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I have shingled a few hundred roofs in my time, taken off shingles 30 plus years old tar paper under them was in amazing condition could have reused it(but did not) the huge benefit of the new underlay is the strength , it will not tear off the roof on a windy day if installed correct, tar paper tends to tear off. My experience.
Another issue with tar paper, is that if it gets water on it before the shingles go down, it gets all warped and bubbly.
Just had a new roof put on, pretty sure with adhesiive rain and ice underlay. Subcontractors took a shortcut and put it over bad wood on the garage. I can see the underlayment through 2 holes. What kind of repair is that going to involve - whole side of garage, bad section only? Just trying to be prepared if they BS me.
@@woodstream6137did you pay them to repair?
@@brianmcdowell7377 warranty covers it.
Tar paper quality has gone down over the years
did my whole roof underlayment in ice and water, in case i ever do solar ... great vid
underlayment serves 3 purposes ...temporary roof until the roof is installed ....moisture barrier and prevents shingles from sticking to the decking
It would be good to talk about code requirements for ice barriers and where they are required to be used. I would also like to see you go over the correct way to install a drip edge on the eave and gable ends of the roof. A lot of roofers do not understand the concept of protecting a roof from back up especially if you have gutters. The membrane is taken over the edge and down behind the drip. Then the drip is installed followed by flashing tape to seal the leading edge of the drip.
Screw code. I just want my half mil dollar houses to last.
@@manictiger That is the very purpose of codes-with out them customers would complain consistently and demand something done with codes people complain they have to follow them-you can't win
@@jakefalasca1561
Right, but I tend to focus on how things are done by the pros first and what's "to code" second. Usually they line up, of course.
@@manictiger exactly I went from code to common sense and knowledge I gained from feeding shingles to installing them
@@manictiger Then watch the Build Show ha ha ha
I’d like to see a video of real world testing of underlayment. Putting 15# felt paper, 30# felt paper, synthetic paper and ice and water down then soak it with artificial rain aka a hose and see how protective it is and for how long. That’s a video I’d give a thumbs up to.
When the installer is preforming a demo with a synthetic underlayment. The roofers have to remove the shingles but not with pitch forks. That’s like picking up a vacuum sealed potatoes with a folk. For lack of a better analogy. They have to remove the pins from each place they were secure. safe to say the synthetic IS superior over felt. But I would be curious about. Is ice and water barrier cost effectiveness and how do you make the customers experience exclusive.
Great question 👍 its extremely hot in Texas. I’ll tell you what.
@@incubedinsight4940 that’s not true at all. Old synthetic falls apart and crumbles and a fork is easy to use
30 lb felt is the best
I honestly start working on the roofing industry for more than 30 years, and I think the best underlayment that we recommend is# 30 pound tar paper!!
I read that first sentence several x. Proofread, my guy.
Ice & Water is superior, paper is outdated, paper still allows water to penetrate with nails white I&W has much better protection.
@@StallionFernando it just depends on the pocket size ice and water is more expensive and covers less squares per roll
@@StallionFernando I once did do a whole entire house of 45 square of pure grace ice and water how ever haz put that underlayment nows it a pay in the everything in summer time with that material but I have to say very very recommended I've heard it can stay up to 2 months on the roof with no shingles layed and it won't come off or leak we actually left the roof exposed for the night because of some home owner difficulties with the sells man and had a bit of rain come through that night and there where no leaks through chimney nor roof boot intakes nothing but the home owner had a big pocket he daily drives a Bentley
@@StallionFernando Who does an entire roof with ice and water shield? Doesn't it go under the underlayment at the edges and valleys?
I've been roofing since the 70's. Still do. A roof done right with proper attic venting doesn't need any underlayment. I do put that crap on but I know it doesn't help.
I totally agree. I’m a framer and have been for 30 years. I put the roof on my own house 28 years ago. I used ice and water at the eves and in the valleys and no tar paper because back then, I too thought it was unnecessary. I just ripped it off today and guess what…the 5/8 osb(16”o.c. rafters) was beautiful!! Like you said, if you vent it good and do the right thing, you don’t need that crap! I feel totally vindicated today for all the times I couldn’t get a good answer out of “professionals” for why you should use felt paper.
Now I can take those 2 rolls of Tiger Paw back!
lol!
Thanks for being a voice of reason.
Also, I hate roofing!😁
That one spot where you show the video of it raining and it looks like the problem I’m having, I just got new gutters and when it’s pouring out it looks like the water is coming out from the eaves where it meets the gutter
If I do any really steep roofs I like to use rhino synthetic underlay, it’s nice and grippy to walk on and shingles don’t slide on it as much
If I had extra blueskin SA, could I use that as an underlayment for a shed? It being slippery isn’t a big deal, it’s a small shed. I’m just wondering more about the shingles adhering. Actually they get nailed so it shouldn’t matter…. Right?? Lol
@@thefinaldispatch 💯 would be fine.. don’t even really need any underlayment especially for a shed but if you have extra blue skin forsure use it!
@@PavelessAdventure awesome thanks
I was look for a simple was and cheep way to seal up a roof that I got to remove peel and stick and I heard you asking about the fiber glass under lay ment I have used for my torch down roof cover over &I used fiberglass under lament on a motel roof over ,the roof was the old style rubber mat style small pitch flat roof, it was wrong down but still in good shape it just need a top cover I used some cold process adhesive and used the fiberglass felt or under lay ment ,for the top cap ,the fiberglass mixed in whit the felt gives the rool a dark gray look with the white fiberglass , the tools are 36" wide so when I roofed and rolled the rool out over the adhesive ,I went over with a 30" sod roller then my over lap was 16 "All they way thru the roof were 16 " joints there a small pitch on the roof but all in all the fiberglass under lay ment is hela strong and seals what ever you use it on !!
Licensed since 85…I tried the synthetic & liked them- but-a friend had “numerous” leaks with synthetic & determined that the synthetic was tearing at the nail, the synthetic didn’t hug the roof adequately & put to much pressure around the nail…I went back to Astm #30- 2 layers if the roof is a rock to composition conversation or under 4/12 pitch- always use peel & stick in valleys..If I’m going over 1x6’s some times I’ll upgrade to modified felt..
the issue is using just nails and not nails or staples with plastic caps as per specification on the install instructions from most, if not all the manufacturers
Been using synthetic for about 5 years, we've never had a single leak or tearing. Some synthetics are thicker than others, such as GAF's Felt Buster Vs their Tigerpaw. when using the Felt Buster, you need to pull it tight as you're rolling and Stapling with the Stinger caps at the same time.
It is a learning curve going from tar paper to synthetic
I worked on alot of hot tar roofs back in the days we used the fiberglass rolls for underlayment sealed with hot tar
Dmitry explain the importance of putting synthetic underlayment over ice and water shield so many don't and when we go back to tear off shingles their melted together and will not come off it's uninspected and crucial to reroofing a home
I'm getting ready to change my roof. The rep that came out wants to put a warer barior on the botom & sides. He's pushing the gaf products. Then tiger paws underlamet
I live in oregon Mild Winters 6:51 . Some snow but not too much, lots of rain.
Gaf is trash!! Sorry if you've already installed. 18 to 22 yrs max
From Insights:
00:32 Purpose of underlayments
01:16 Asphalt/felt/tar paper
02:00 Synthetic felt/underlayment
03:02 Ice and water shield
03:50 High temp ice and water shield
04:52 Base sheet
well...not exactly. You may be a good roofing "salesman" but i doubt you possess a roofing license. I have 25+ years in roofing as a state and city licensed, certified contractor. Felt is, principally, a vapor barrier NOT waterproofing. And that is why it is technically classified as such. You will (I promise) blast 1000s of holes through your fancy "waterprooof" felt when you nail your shingles through it. Still a "waterproof barrier"? Of course it isn't and you know it. The actual origin of felt usage is interesting - you should read about it but it had nothing to do with being a part of a "waterproof roof system" - suffice to say for decades roofers didn't even install it (I've torn off roofs with no felt and they were perfectly fine for the 30 year shingle service life). Felt was made for the homeowner to "dry-in" his roof when a father/son DIY'd it because it took them weeks - and it was a common thing back in early 1900s America. Basically - felt was a tarp but then the manufactures realized they could get everyone to "value-add" to the job and it became taboo not to install felt when everyone knew that in most cases, it was unnecessary. Kinda like the way "government" has become "necessary". If you install shingles properly, the felt is superfluous. Felt is rarely actually necessary - says so in most shingle application manuals in fact it used to not even be a warranty requirement until they realized they could force you to buy/use "their" branded product and spend even more on fancy stuff that was totally unnecessary. Yes, below 4/12 pitch you need to provide more than a vapor barrier because in the absolute worst storms, it is possible for a shingle system to be defeated but it is still rare even below that pitch and most homes are 4 or better. But these fancy peel n stick ice and water shields are BS and not necessary. You know and i know that the manufacturers are just creating expensive fancy products so you make your jobs "sound" better than the other guys and that's all fine - EXCEPT when you guys go and start saying that roofers are "cutting corners" by not installing this. No - they're saving their customer's money by not installing it. A shady roofer will say he is installing something when he isn't. A pro will not charge you for - and not install - something you don't need because he knows his roof does not need it in order not to leak - just like his dad's and his grandad's didn't need it. Bottom line is that there certainly all sorts of roof scenarios and sometimes you need something extra but any real licensed roofer can explain those. But don't run around trying to make other roofers out to be the bad guy, when you're just installing crap your customer's don't even need - because you might just get called out by a 3rd generation certified master. PS: I've seen installs you posted on YT; standard ridge on a dimensional? overspray and wrong paint code for flashing? one inch exposure at the eves? valley metal on normal pitch? all mistakes. Monkey see, monkey doo - someone taught you wrong.
Hi Dimitry - if I am having new shingles installed should the underlayment be from the same manufacturer? I think you mentioned in one of your videos ( Best Roofing Shingles?) that a consumer should check to make sure the accessories are the same so it doesn't cancel/compromise the warranty. If it doesn't void the warranty, I am looking to install Owen Corning TruDefinition Duration - what would be the best ice & water shield underlayment?
@@mrwhiteinca interesting, right now everyone wants to build the perfect house but is difficult to find someone that really knows about it.
So far I've learned the following (but I guess some of this information is wrong)
1.that the shingle needs to be light colored and sealed with clear acrylic coating
2. That the felt has to be waterproof
3. That a radiant barrier is needed underneath the plywood
4. That's mandatory to insulate and seal the inside of the roof with spray foam
5. That a vapor barrier and/or vapor retarder is needed in the inside as a final layer before the ceiling installation
6. Roof venting is always a must no matter the layers of insulation
7. Building an attic helps the owner to be aware of any damage
8. The roof framing with metal is better than wood
I'm not a professional as you can tell, but the above is what the so called experts teach online, maybe not everything is wrong.
@@mrwhiteinca I'm just trying to find out, if it's ok to use the tar paper under my metal panels to help prevent condensation inside my trailer instead of that expensive stuff?? And NO ONE will answer my question. I'm starting to think NO ONE KNOWS!! 🙄
@@eduardomaradiaga5868 the so called experts online, can not give me a simple direct yes or no answer as to weather or not, I can or can not, use the tar paper under metal panels to help prevent condensation inside my metal trailer roof. So I really don't think the so called experts online, know any more than the people that get online looking for a direct and honest answer!! 🙄
I'm not a contractor but have done 3+ roofs I like the thickness of tar paper, but I used to have a heck of a time to get it to lay perfectly flat.
CertainTeed makes the fiberglass felt paper. It's banded as Roofer Select. I hate using it, leaves me itchy for a day or two so where long sleeves and Pants if you're not use to handling it.
Don't get excited either, it tears just as easily as 15 & 30 ibs paper and if it gets rained on before you install, it wrinkles up and takes forever to dry flat again
Never going back to it since we've been bringing in Felt Buster and Tigerpaw from GAF, I couldn't imagine going back to Tar paper
My 6 yr old roof bit the dust in Hurricane Ian in FL. My insurance adjuster said it was in good shape. I lost all the cap shingles and more. An independent public adjuster told me I need a new roof that the gutters are FULL of gravel or whatever you call it to not clean it out it’s evidence. We had 8 hrs of 150 mph winds for 8 solid hours. I’m trying to educate myself but so confused. I want to know what questions to ask when choosing a roofer. Probably 1 in 3-5 houses here are tarped or have a new roof. 😮
Can the "Base sheet" (at 4:50 on this video) be used as a stand alone underlayment in Arizona with concrete tile?
what do you think about Certain Teed Diamond Deck Underlayment????
Any cons to using ice & water on entire roof decking? I've read its not recommended because it doesn't allow roof to breath but by code it us required on bottom edges and flashing tape is required on plywood seams so I don't understand how that is any different! Thanks
Very informative! I learned alot I needed this because I am facing having to put a new roof on.
How come I tear off hundreds of roofs with zero underlayment and ice and water membrane and they're bone dry. 4/12 pitches too...3 tab. Personally I think it's easier to go straight when you can see the deck. And if you want you can see the rafter lines so you can throw a nail or two per shingle into the rafters for added hold. Correct me if I'm wrong?
I have heard of "breathable" roofing underlay, much like the "air barriers" used on walls that allow moisture vapour to pass thru, but not water that may have entered the roof cavities. This would be a product typically used under vertically strapping, which would be termed the second roof. Such a product would only be nailed thru at the vertical strapping and would have horizontal strapping spaced above it. A video discussing these products and methods of application would be brilliant.
seems to me that the breathable quaility is negated by the nonbreathable quality of the shingle
I went with 1/2" ZIP with taped seams and a poly underlayment.
What about cost comparisons for all these underlayments? The paper-type (first one) is old school, and, a home owner, I would prefer something better! Thank you for vid! Very helpful to know about this, so that people can see if contractors/roofs would do a good job both at labor AND materials they charge the customers!
I'm an idiot at roofing and I Don't like ice and water barrier from Owens cornering. I do love their synthetic felt. I can tell you the synthetic felt held with cap nail until 60mph winds. The ice and water completely held in those wind without me really worrying about it much.
The reason I don't like the ice and water is if the nails are not fully sank it will protrude through your intended barrier. It says to use a fifty-pound roller I used a ten and it was a mess. Only one side will have ice and water barrier the other side I'm doing two layers of synthetic felt instead. Time will tell if it's a good idea or not
And I can give you the numbers on the current day cost on both
268 ft of like 4ft wide synthetic felt costs is $99.99 or less
Ice and water 70 ft about 4ft wide was $99.99 or less
Let's think about a re-shingle job on an existing house. What is the main importance or purpose of the underlayment? It' not put on primarily as a secondary leak stopper. It's put on because unless you are putting new shingles over the old, it is YOUR ONLY leak stopper, until the roof is finished.
I've heard of some underlayments that won't even hold water. What sense is that?
We need to replace the roofing on a relatively small gazebo. We need 8 triangles and have available standard asphalt shingles. Trying to figure out the best way to tackle this small project. We are older but in decent shape to get up and off of ladders. The center hole is not large enough to get up into, so have to approach from the edges.
I was told to use up to 50 pound tar paper to make the shingles last longer because when heat penetrates your shingles the more value of tar paper the heat does not burn the shingles up. The elastomeric underlayment goes on edges, valleys, and the crown roof vents. You have a great opportunity to use many different underlayment for different conditions and get maximum longevity out of your roof shingles. Always go with architectural…. 3 tab is a horrible choice. Spend the money…. Buy once cry once… and if it is applied right…. You will not outlive your roof
I've used the fiber glass paper basically it's just like fire resistant and I didn't believe it at first because it's just like tar paper it's black and rolled up so I teard a peace got a lighter and tried to make it burn and as soon as I let go of the lighter it would completely light out ND it didn't really burn it would just turn in to some thing similar to sand not even ashes I've only used it once don't recall the brand either
Thank you, I am having a roof installed and your video definitely educated me on what to get. Keep up the good work! --- Fred
I am a home inspector in Kentucky and we have a lot of metal roofs around us. Can you talk about what type of underlayment is good, better and best for that application?
I read you shouldn't put shingles directly on ice shield because they will adhere to the shield and years later when they are being removed they can't easily get them off without removing the ice shield too.
well. Thats due to the tar adhesive on the back of the shingles. Shingles also stick to shingles underneath, plywood, pretty much whatever you lay shingles ontop of, the shingle will adhere to when it gets warm that first time. however, if you are pulling shingles off the roof I assume you are replacing the roof. you wouldnt want to reuse the undeayment anyhow. so,
Butyl base synthetic ice and water is my new favorite. Amazing in cold weather applications
Never heard of it &been roofing 23 yrs,Where you located?.
Im in southeastern mich&it gets cold as f**k. .
@@jasonthomas2714 komodo by ft synthetics I think
@@joeljohnson9583 gotcha✅
That sounds like crazy stuff
It's so good. Sticks in the freezing weather
Awesome. Never thought of using base as an underlayment. Thanks.
We just need good or great installers that care how to install any of them properly. Sad to say, but most installers are either don’t care or suck, they just want to get any jobs done asap and don’t care if they install it correctly!
Synthetic is lightweight and high performance and has great offset values regardless of what lazy asshole installs it.
We used the peel and stick flintastic stuff on our treehouse roof. It's confusing because as a non roofer I was thinking for a minute I had to put felt on tope of the flintastic underlayment. ~~ I guess I don't have to. It's not a crucial job and the hexagonal treehouse is open on two sides, but we still want a decent roof.
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Thanks for sharing and to the point we are going to be putting a tin roof on our roof and would love to see a video on your high temp ice and water shield in I’m looking forward to seeing one of your videos
Why not 30 lb. tar paper down first (not with staples -- round plastic cap), then a layer of Polyglass "Polystick MX" self-adhered, then one layer of architectural shingles?
From a daily roofer that is dedicated to roofing I do not recommend hi temp iva and water it’s one of the worst brands the tar literally cracks and falls if it’s not hot enough. The 30 pound felt is my choice in my opinion because it’s actually better against water and it’s basically almost a water shield because of the coating of tar . Synthetic is going to be my choice on a steep roof because synthetic doesn’t rip apart like 30 pound felt
Keep simple. 30# has worked for decades now. This is a sales pitch. All this crap is unnecessary really
@@eddiespagetti8395 people seem to forget that felt has a self sealing ability . Synthetics do not. Tearing on the roof is not a big problem, holes through the paper, much more of a problem,.
💯What's the best options for under a metal roof in the midwest with snowfalls? Thanks for tips!
SharkSkin
Used Resito eves protec as first underlay and then a membrane underlay.
The eave trim is over the resisto and the membrane is overlapping the eave trim.
The Resisto acts to seal screws and do it's normal job.
I used a GE product to adhere the 3 inches of membrane at the eve trim.
Used Butyl tape for all seams and Gable trim.
Including valleys.
Bought large closures for the ridge cap.
New roof installed. Found out subcontractors didn't remove bad wood over part of garage. It has ridge venting and should have used some sort of adhesive underlayment like rain and ice. Went into the loft and you could see the underlayment through 2 softball size holes in the wood. Do they need to redo the whole side of the garage or can the rain and ice be merged with existing work so only the bad section needs replaced?
We use safeguard 30 it’s a hybrid underpayment it’s pretty good but it’s experience, it runs about $94.00 a roll and it covers 449sq ft.
Look up safeguard 30..... hybrid, part polymer part asphalt, and it’s no joke, you can walk a 12/12 no problem. Just did one with it.
Their website claims it’s the best of both worlds. There’s an endless supply of one-off underlayment products. Cool stuff
I used zip system on my roof. Installing Epdm over it . The adhesive doesn’t stick to liquid flash and flashing tape. Going to try 3M™ Hi-Strength 90 which Huber says sticks to their product. Was considering blue skin in my scupper trough but will have to test this adhesive on that as well.
Unfortunately you used the wrong product. If you are using EDPM a ZIP System sheathing is not compatible. Also ZIP System sheathing should be used on a roof with a slope greater than 2/12. I hope this helps.
@@captainmo3064 Yes you are correct however . I feel confident it is completely sealed. Flashing and liquid flashing around all edges . No seams in the membrane. The 5/8ths zip roof sheathing was completely sealed as well with no leaks for about a month of storms before I got the membrane down.
Firestone makes some awesome rubberized underlayment. Its really expensive, but great stuff
And then you went on to describe base sheet...awesome stuff
I'm reading a few comments about leakage around the nail heads. Would a liquid flashing help seal that? Also, if you use ZIP sheathing on the roof, would you also need an underlayment (after taping or liquid-flashing the seams)?
Please recommend solutions to get rid of tar smelling inside my house after new roof installed 1 year ago. Roofing company used 30# tar paper, dimensional, architectural shingles. The tar smell is unbearable during high temperature weather and when the A/C is running. Thank you!
Is your roof vented, either with a ridge vent or gable vents. Also are the soffits vented?
How many rolls of tar paper i need for 68 foot long and 14 feet wide with a peak too to the peak is 7 1/2 wide Sir
Hey, how about those radiant barrier capability underlayment? Like Low-E Thermasheet. Looking forward a review on that...
thanks for this educational video, author talked about ice and water shield which it directly stick to the decking then put the regular underlayment over it, but at time 3:35 why the ice and water shield put on top on the regular underlayment ? or it doesn't really matter the order. anyone know why ? thanks
The trouble with the roofing in the USA . They seem to just expect that the tiles slate etc are not going to keep the water out . Whereas in uk and Europe our roofs firstly very little shingles just for sheds and out buildings . Then concrete tiles and slate are there to keep the water out . The problem you have is the roof pitch in many cases far too shallow. And tye rain doesn't come off roof quickly.
Where can I find the current pricing per roll for this Malarkey Arctic Seal underlayment? Just had a new roof installed, and the contractor should have put the Malarkey Arctic Seal, but instead used GAF Feltbuster! This seems like a breach of contract. Would I have recourse to make the roofer do my roof again to put the Arctic Seal underlayment? I ordered the Malarkey Vista shingles too, and now I need to confirm those are the shingles on my roof (they had brought the Highlander shingles the day before, and I told them about the error).
I just bought Fortress by roofing products. It is a 3 ft tall roll made of asphalt covered with a plastic cover easy to remove.
My house was built in 1980 and has a concrete tile roof and I'm not the original owner. However, the builders made the roof without any subroof ... just flat 1x6 horizontal slats under the tiles. You can easily see daylight looking out the attic space. Having my roof replaced because a couple edge tiles have broken off. Just deciding whether I want (concrete vs. ceramic) tiles or composite/asphalt roof (with a completely added subroof). Your recommendations? I live in California's central valley where we get winter lows in the 20's F and summer highs in the 110s. This video is helpful. Thanks!
That' was the standard for tile roofs back then! Called skip sheathing.
How about permeability? Wouldn't a non permeable underlayment similar to poly trap moisture between it and the shingles? Wouldn't moisture that condensed under the poly after install have nowhere to go except soak your decking?
Learned a lot in 6 minutes. Thank you. Would this be the same for what is used for roofs that have tile installed?
Word around the street is 30lb tar paper will actually make the shingles last longer as tar paper gets absorbed into the shingle over time.
So GAF tells me none of their underlayment are waterproof. If it rains on the synthetic before its shingled, it will leak. Help me out here! Thx
I used to install the synthetic, installed it on a couple of new construction jobs and had leaks around the nail heads so I went back to 30lb. Have you had similar issues?
I install the synthetic with a Plastic cap nailer or Stinger stapler.
Also, the synthetic underpayment is never meant to be waterproofing. Technically, as soon as you penetrate any undergarment, it ceases to be leak proof, that's why proper shingle installation s so important, especially on 3 tab on less than 8:12 in windy areas where wind driven rain is a concern
Will the synthetic underlayment work for concrete storm shelters?
Please suggest which of these underlayment combination is best for Florida?
-1 layer of weather lock G Granulated Ice and water and 1 layer of Rhino synthetic
-2 layers of RhinoRoof synthetic underlayment and WeatherLock Specialty Tile and Metal for the high temp water barrier at all valleys, along walls, and around roof penetrations.
-1 layer of RhinoRoof® Granulated Self-Adhered Underlayment
Actually, the best in Florida at this moment will be SharkSkin Ultra laid at 3/4 exposure with a 6" grid spacing using 1-1/4" ring shank nails. System is Florida approved @ -210 psf and carries a 50 year limited manufacturer warranty. Oh and exposure is 1 year.....Ain't gonna find nothing better than that!
What about best value and price ? What about albedo for energy efficiency?
Most roof leaks that develop over time are from missed placed nails in the shingle during installation that rust out over time and allow water to penetrate causing a leak, there's nothing wrong with good old' 15 or 30lb felt paper, Proper installation is the key,
Exactly. Plain old felt has worked for decades. It's all about more profit and sales. They invent new membranes and most end up being crap anyhow. Stick to felt is wise choice
what is the difference between 15 lbs to 30 lbs felt paper?
@@aclasscali The Thickness, 30lb is twice as thick than 15lb.
Is thetar paper better at breathing out any moisture ?
Thanks RI. Can you tell us more about the moisture permability of the underlayments?For example felt/tar paper will allow moisture to escape. If water vapor is not allowed to escape wont the wood sheathing eventually rot? Thats what I worry about with these new plastic underlayments.
I know that Malarkey makes a synthetic underlayment that is breathable. It is their premium grade underlayment. Find it on their website. Maybe others do too, IDK.
Please explain how any underlayment other then ice and water sheald is water proof after I just put 8 thousand nail holes in it. Truth is under payment is a vaper berier. Most roofing will sweat on the underside, with the change of temperature. Hens the term vaper bearier.
Thus why tar paper is the best underlayment. It has oils in it that help protect the wood. It also breaths and can dry back out. Vs the others create moisture underneath and traps in the moisture underneath it because it’s synthetic plastic, can not dry out. Rots the wood and creates mold.
Thus the old trusted thick tar paper comes out the winner.
We are using storm guard in SW Fla on the sheathing then probably rolled rubber or shingles on top
What is your opinion of Roof Max and Roof Renew rejuvination? Does it work?
I mean, it’s underlayment. Sure it’s part of the roofing system, but it’s not the roof. Underlayment is a vapor barrier and nothing more. Besides the ice and water shield it is not meant to stop water penetration once the roof is installed. After all there are thousands of nail holes in it after you install the shingles.
The best part about a good underlayment is how walkable it is on a steep roof. I’ve tried plenty of synthetics, but in my opinion 30 pound felt it’s still the best.
I agree. Does not do very good with tile roof installs in my opinion. Orange County, CA.
I sell a lot of metal roofs. I don't know any roofer in my area who would agree with that. (Pacific Northwest, Gulf Islands, Canada). I get a lot of homeowners going for cheap, especially because some of their projects are small square footage, so they can't wrap their heads around the cost of a 10 square roll of synthetic, but I can't think of an actual roofer who is still using felt here. My 2 bits.
And code is still 30lb felt, fyi
@@forrestbehr8778 Not where I live. Minimum 15 .
Ice and water shield IS meant to stop water penetration! It's exact job it to stop water that's laying on top of ice dams from penetrating the roof deck once it travels back up under the shingles.. as for the 'hundreds of holes' ice and water shield seals around the nails.
A roofer told me that he always uses 3 layers of underlayment. The top one is the ice n water shield, which he says would seal the nail holes. Is that correct?
Question for anyone. When applying new flat flat deck material, can you use tar paper for underlayment or not bc of fire hazard? I've tried to tell the homeowner that I don't think paper is what you want to use. If anyone can help out with a bit of insight I would appreciate it
Great information. I'm building new home and only have synthetic felt on right now. Heavy rain today and spotted some leaks. Spoke to the builder who check it out but is this common on a roof that doesn't have shingles on?
The entire point of felt is so your roof doesn’t leak before the shingles go on..If your roof is leaking as a result of the pipe flashing collar not being sealed or some other applicational error that’s not the underpayment fault but if the felt is tearing at the shank of the nail that’s the underpayment fault..In 40 years of roofing thousands of homes #30 ASTM felt has never been an issue..
Can you put ice and water underlayment on top of the titanium underlayment. We have a roof leak and when we reroof I don't want any chance of it leaking again 😊
I live in El Paso TX (79821) Its Very Sunny, Very HOT and Dry. Is there a thermal barrier that we can install between the underlayment and the Asphalt shingle?
Nice video any underlayment for torch-down roofing installation?
Use #28 fiberglass base, it doesn’t hurt giving it less exposure for flame protection…Dibiten is the best torch down period..they use imported crushed slate flakes from Europe..It’s not cool roof compliant in California but a cool roof coating can be applied once finished..Make sure there is an overflow on all seams and side laps, if not get the roofer back…in 30 plus years of installing 2 roofs a week I’ve yet to have one wear out…
I had corrugated sheets installed on wood after removing tegolas. My roof is leaking now, and I was hoping there's an undercover I can use. My roof is very large. The property is in the hot topics.
Great video. Getting a new roof this summer and now I know what to ask for and when they talk about underlayment, I understand now. Very helpful and informative. Thank you, Mr Simmons.
Unless your in Alaska or a state that is minus 10 or colder winters lots of snow ect , you do not need to waste money on this stuff. Regular 30 pound felt has worked since the 1950s. This is all profit sales pitch for the contract
No problem! Glad I could help!
, would you recommend 40 # felt? I live in NW Florida, and it is very hot.
How about the Therma Sheet underlayment?? My company uses it and we have great success
What area of the US?
Ive been researching this for months and can't get a solid answer. 2x6 fiberglass, conditioned attic, in NV zone5, (-10f with snow to 115f), high wind application. I want to install a metal roof with an air gap. my only question is, is it safe to install peel and stick (zero perm) onto entire roof deck? Im concerned that interior moisture could start adding up in the fiberglass. I like peel and stick for the benefit of sealing around penetrations.
Whats your take on Titanium UDL 25, 30, and 50? Synthetic underlayment. Also Titanium PSU 30 Ice and water shield?
Any ideas for an underpayment for silicone with fabric ?
What kind of crazy underlayments have you experienced?
Sharkskin self adhered synthetic paper is something I’ve just come across recently. They are using it for UV protection on areas where the high temp underlayment is to be exposed more than 90 days on the project I’m on. Other than that I really like Carlisle’s WIP products and any shingle paper that has cool pictures/animals on it. Rhinos, whales, elephants, etc.
@@ltd4yt lol 90days??
@@jasonthomas2714 Actually it’s 180 day max exposure on this product. Happens all the time in commercial construction.
@@ltd4yt damn its arduous to find quality help these day's.
😬
one roofer that didn't serve my area (which was my 1st choice roofer), said he only uses malarkey udl 80#. He claimed its the only underlayment that self seals around nails. Is very heavy which is why no one uses it. Thoughts on that one?www.dhtconstructionwa.com/uploads/4/7/9/2/47926495/rightstart-udl-tech-data-2015.pdf
0utstanding!👍 What's your thoughts on GAF Tiger Paw Synthetic Underlayment?🙏👀🙏
Thank you for time stamps 🙏🙏🙏
do i put something between the peel and stick and the asphalt shingles ? Also do i put paper or synthetics between roof and peel and stick?
What make/model van is that? I'll need a vehicle to live in after I pay for a new roof and am broke and homeless.
what underlayment do you recommend in Florida?
Sharkskin can go on without needing roof right away. Not sure where to buy underlayment as big box stores have limited options.
Good video. I would think/like to have it explained in more detail about felt and synthetic felt why its required. Most people think vapor barrier and it is a fire code issue (slow down the burn if there is a fire) synthetic taking the place of both a vapor barrier and fire code vs felt just more so on the fire code. We use the HT (high temp) primarily only on metal roofing, some of the Best in my opinion is the Shark Skin underlayment
What do
You like about shark skin?
I’ve never heard of shark skin! It sounds awesome though, what makes it so special?
@@roofingtips We have only used it when doing metal roofing. When doing long panels you want the best grip on your feet I just feel as its not as slick as grace underlayment (who also makes a good HT ice shield) Iv never used it for anything else but the surface is easy and safe to work on and it provides a really good barrier.
@roofing insights
SharkSkin is the best!
That was interesting. We are manufacturing and selling those sticker type membranes for underlay along with the granulated on top for slow slope roof.
Can i use the synthetic underlayment just by itself? I watch a video where a guy said to place and ice and water shield under the Synthetic underlayment. is it necessary or just an added layer of protection? Thank you for the info.
Thanks for your video on underlayment. I live in CT. and am having leaks over sunroom.I had solar panels installed on a roof with a 2/12 pitch. Should the solar Co. have recommended and or checked for an underlayment before installing my panels?
Absolutely, they should have inspected the roof before the solar install. I had solar installed one year ago and the installer did a thorough inspection on my concrete tile roof beforehand and also provided a roof penetration warranty for 24 months. I checked in the attic after the first rain and saw no evidence of any leaks. Check your contract for a similar roof penetration warranty. Good luck.
Best underlayment for flat roof .We do get hot during summer ?
I have the underlayment that was like the first one you talked about…i have a small hole in it and want to know if I could use the water and ice self sticky underlayment to go over the hole of the torn underlayment to seal it and put the tile back on it?
Love the diamonds deck and interwrap
I have a low pitch roof that has a granulated rolled roof here inHot Humid Florida. I want to upgrade to a shingled roof, but I don't want to remove the existing roof.
My question is, what type of underlayment can I use over the rolled roof?
Very informative!!
If I purchase the H/T stuff. Can I nail shingles to it after stuck to the roof?
They never mentioned shingling on top of it.
What about Erie Construction company's thermo sheet underlayment. It's silver and pretty thick and they say it reduces your heating bill 10-15%?
I'd like to know how it reduces your heating bill because most attics are ventilated and designed to be close to the exterior temperature. A product that adds or retains heat would tend to melt the snow and create ice dams.