How To Start a Laser Engraving Business! Which Laser is Right for Your Business?
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2023
- In this comprehensive guide, we walk you through the step-by-step process of starting a successful laser engraving business. From conceptualization to reaching out to customers, we provide valuable insights and tips to help you master the art of launching your own venture.
Learn how to select the right laser engraving equipment, set up your workspace efficiently, and understand the essential materials needed for various engraving projects. Discover the ins and outs of designing captivating and marketable products that grab attention and drive sales.
We delve into the important aspects of pricing strategies, including pricing for profitability and staying competitive in the market. Uncover the secrets of effective marketing and branding techniques to reach your target audience effectively.
Stay ahead of the game by understanding the legal and licensing requirements for running a laser engraving business. We discuss key considerations such as insurance, permits, and establishing contracts to ensure smooth operations.
Our guide also covers the crucial topic of customer acquisition and retention. Learn how to identify your ideal customers, build lasting relationships, and implement successful customer service strategies.
Whether you're a beginner or already have some experience, this video offers essential advice to help you succeed in this lucrative industry. Gain the knowledge and confidence needed to turn your passion for laser engraving into a thriving business.
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FYI: We are not professionals, and we don’t claim to be. This is what we found worked for our project. Yours may need a little different approach. We have just enough woodworking skill to make some basic furniture. Safety first!
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Kim and Garrett, It's SueBear from Myrtle Beach. I’m at a flea market next to Myrtle Beach SC. I currently am doing sublimation, and vinyl products. You both are fantastic and going far. The best part is that you both are helping others to fullfill their dreams also. So many of the the top suppliers for crafters started out as crafters just like you both. In the early 90's we all had forums. We didn't have it with the videos. I was on the same forum as the owner of Brambleberry before she was Bramleberry opened her business. Everyone would help each other and share our results in the candle, bath and body recipes. She was very helpful and then started selling some of her favorite ingredients and supplies. All us crafters bought from her and Kindness comes back and more. My husband Robert retires in December. I've always been crafting since the mid 80's, it was my way to stay home with the boys. Bob is very talented in the nuts and bolts of things to. Bob and I are trying to figure out what will do us the most good. I really like the xtool that lets the wood go thru to make the signs and porch leaners. I love love love your Haunted Mansion Skull Vertical Porch Leaner. I want to make all your signs and porch leaners to sell at the market and everntually lean to make them as well. I so have been wanting to make a map of where people live to sell but have only seen it printed out. 100% out the park with the 3d.This will be both my and my husbands dream of selling at the flea market. We got 40 ft of front space preparing for retirement. We really think we can do something great. Especially since you both have so graciously shared all the files and experience to help others. I really if I had a choice I think the one to make the rounds and leaners. I have 40 ft x 10 ft deep of space. All the walls are covered in peg board. I'm hoping to have the space full of all your rounds and leaners and will make some of the displayers that you guys created. I am very excited for our new venture and thank you for including all of us in yours.
Thanks for the kind words! Good Luck to both of you! And happy early retirement, crafting is a fun side hustle! We really enjoy meeting and chatting with new people at the shows!
what is the got gifts for you? is it a scam?
Great job on the video K&G you covered all the important parts of having a Laser side hustle or full blown job. Im very lucky I came across your channel months ago. You two have opened many doors for me. Take care and see you on Test Cut Tuesday.
Love the videos ya'll make. Keep them coming! And thanks for taking the time to show us new products to explore
My husband has a stained glass business, and we were talking about ideas to incorporate glass cutting and stained glass. I think the diode cutter would be the correct process. Thank you for the videos. 😊
Hi Kim and Garrett. I have a cnc machine and I am beginning to make signs and quilting tools. I can see a real niche need for an xtool laser. Thanks again for all of your videos!
Thank you Kim & Garrett! I’m still in the planning stage of what my business will look like, but I’m a REALTOR & I’m planning on focusing on that niche of closing gifts.
Honestly I think I would start with the desktop one, but I like the idea of doing bigger projects, too! I’d be happy with anything right now! Lol
Watching your videos is inspiring. I just got a D1Pro 20W, and have barely made smoke yet. I am drawn to the boxes, lanterns and xmas houses, but who knows where the journey will lead. Thanks for the excitement.
Me and my Daughter watch your videos and she has recently set up a store and wants to start her own business. She is wanting to concentrate on pet items and campervan items. She already has free help (me). Keep up the great work you have taught us a lot!!!!
Hey there!! My husband and I love watching your videos! Helpful but not boring! We started our little business when 2020 took out our team job. We wanted to continue working together, so went for it! We create customized things such as corn hole, signs, tables etc. Our shop is in a town of 950, we try to support local and currently have grown into a small town gift boutique. We are just now ready to step into the new world of laser etching. The xTool D 1 pro is the one we are thinking of investing in to get our feet wet. Of course budget is key. We can’t bring ourselves into a $7000 piece quite yet. ;😜 thanks again for all of your help!
Great Video! This answers so many questions and helps you have confidence in you choice. I am sharing this video with friends who have mentioned taking their passion for making to the next level.
You 2 are the bomb! I've been subscribed to your channel since the first time I've watched and bought a few things from your website as well. I would love to get the xTool P2. You are the reason I invested in the xTool 10W Pro and the F1 but I'm retiring August 31 and would love to start my own little laser business and this would be the icing on the cake. Not only are you so informative and passionate in all you do... you are so fun to watch and put a smile on my face every time! I really do appreciate you. Thanks for all you do!
Thanks, Kim and Garrett, for all your support and encouragement! I would love to get our small side hustle off the ground! Still figuring out our niche. Looking at the inferred F1.
Great video. I make acrylic and wood signs. I just purchased a P2 and I enjoy getting new ideas from content like yours.
I make door hangers, Christmas ornaments, and earrings..would live to try out a P2 or F1. Thank you guys for all the videos and advice!!!
I have a CO2 I just got. Looking into doing door hangers, acrylic. With the scraps I will use for earrings. Love watching you guys. Looking forward to my new adventure.
Hi Scott! Sounds like you just need some accessories to go with your machine, or even some more materials like acrylic or keychains! Thanks for commenting and good luck!
I'm looking at a C02. I use the one at our local library, and I am hoping to start a diy kit business. I love your videos they are so much fun.
Wife and I are about to go all in on a laser (probably the p2) and a cnc machine to start a business that we can run together, full time for her and part time for me working around my job. Leaning toward starting off with outdoor holiday decorations, and porch leaners and then getting into custom engraving of different items. She is the creative one and I am the software/techie one. Love your channel and your videos are entertaining and helpful.
Hey Kim and Garrett! I would love Love LOVE the P2 ❤ I make geeky gifts, pop culture wall art and trendy jewelry. I definitely think the P2 would give my products the detail and fine tuning they require. I appreciate you all so much! Your knowledge is invaluable and you personalities are fabulous! Thanks again for all you two do for your audience ❤️
Hi, it’s Mark Rust from the patron group - definitely enjoying the videos. I’ve been doing mostly earrings, coasters, and ornaments, but am starting to get going with the larger signs. The xTool P2 with the automatic pass through looks amazing to me
I have an XTool 10 and 20W both with extensions. I want the P2 to use on my husbands bowls. He hand turns wood bowls. With the P2 I would be able to engrave inside. Plus it would be faster for the barn quilts I make.
Great video I am a teacher and have had an m1 since they released on kickstarter … big fan of xtool. Your channel keeps me inspired and thinking out of the box . After seeing your review of the F1 I am in love … it would be amazing to use in my job as a teacher to create unique items for class and to use with my students …. My fingers and toes are crossed what an amazing give away that would certainly help purchase another great xtool machine .
Just starting on wooden signs. I would like to try the xtool d1 pro 20 watt. So excited to do more!! Can make money with it bc my signs would be more detailed!!
Thank you for sharing so much information. My wife and I recently started making crafts so we’ll have projects we can do together and transition into life after retirement. We’re really enjoying the adventures of creating things. Epoxy resin projects we’re the first thing I started doing while she made custom decorations for plant pots, and now we want to do some engraving and cutting with XTool equipment. Eventually we’d love to have a CO2. In a few weeks we’ll be vendors at our first show.
That is AWESOME! Sounds like you guys have a fun retirement plan. I love resin stuff, but it takes so long to cure. First Show!!! Sweet!!!! It's gonna be awesome! Just know that you WILL forget stuff. LOL Our first show was close enough to our house that I could keep running home for things we forgot. 😂😀😂 Good Luck on your first show! and GOOD LUCK on the Giveaway, Jose! Post your stuff on our FaceBook Group, I'd love to see the resin stuff! ~garrett
@@KimandGarrettmakeit I didn’t see an option to post any pictures on your FB Page, I’m guessing you have a separate group which I’m not aware of.
I'd love to have a D1. I need the ability to make bigger items. I love all you guys have taught us.
I would like a c02 for bigger projects like learners. I have a diode already. Thanks you two for all your videos and support
If I was to pick one, I would say the P2. I currently own a longer ray 5 20W and was limited on bed size until I purchased the extension kit. Now, my definite need is for a large honeycomb bed to fit my 375 x 825 mm bed size. Xtool just so happens to have one to fit the bill. I currently do hangers and different wood craft ideas for people.
Sounds like the P2 is the perfect next step for you! With all of it's features and functionality, it can really grow with your business! Good Luck!
Just starting. Have the x tool d1 pro and the P2. We are starting with wedding items as well as dome of your signs. Can't find any MDF anywhere.
What I love about the Xtool is being able to engrave tumblers. That would be great!
I just bought the laser xtool p2 and I'm very happy to have found tou guys here on UA-cam! ❤you are the best and very cute
Congratulations on your P2! I know you're loving it! There are so many great accessories you can purchase to go with it! Good luck!
I've currently got a hobby grade diode laser. I would love to get into the CO2 Market, but for now I have room for a diode and the familiarity with it. I will probably stay with that for a little while. I love the designs I see on your UA-cam channel, and greatly appreciate all of the help you give beginners like me. I love the 3D art and would like to be able to do some of that. Down the road, I would also like to get into tumblers but that's mostly for myself
Hi Kim and Garrett, great tips. Thank you, and I love your energy. I have had my side gig since 2017. Always have been a crafter and dabble in many things. I got a mini Lazer a few yrs ago and love it. have done some great small 3x3 items and gifts. This year, hubby bought me the xtool D1Pro for xmas/birthday. Am excited and learning to use it. It is a bit intimidating at the start lmao. but I am getting used to it. Only done smaller test things so far as I learn the programs and wait for stock to come in. One day I hope to turn this into a full time job.
What were some of your challenges when you first started?
I'm just starting to learn more and more about Lasers. I have the XTool and use it to design and sign woodworking projects. I've made ornaments and small artworks that I plan to sell at a local craft fair in town next month as I learn what the market is in the area. As a retired teacher, I find the artistic and business pairing exciting. I want to get into engraving bottles and glassware and hope to expand the 'business' in that direction. Thanks for the advice and enthusiasm!
Yes! Glassware is a great medium for engraving!
I recently bought the P2 but havent used it yet! Love watching yall
Love this video!!! The XTool F1 is a big wishlist item for us!!! We would love to be able to personalize items on the fly at shows and a booth at our local Painted Tree!!! Magnets, key chains and ornaments! Thanks for doing this!!!
Very informative video, Love all your work, especially the latest signs that you have made, I would love to experiment with the xTool D1 pro, I have lots of ideas that I would love to make...Thanks!
I want the P2 but it is too expensive so I bought the F1 to start my business and hopefully I will make money enough to buy the P2 in the future.😊
The products that I will start with is golf industry, make some key chains, ball holders and other personalized items.
I have watched lots of your videos, and finally subscribed today! My niche is bagmaking, and I have been looking at lasers and how they can help me. I had finally decided today that Xtools was probably the company to go with, since they not only have good reviews for ease of use, but you can buy all the safety equipment you need to go with them (unlike the laser that I just bought…sigh). I purchased a small IR laser to make bag tags and jewelry. I want t CO2 laser because I can cut so many materials with it, but particularly acrylic. Having one means I could use pattern SVG files to make acrylic templates. That would be awesome! I’d love to be able to make home decor items too. I have seen some wild patterns out there that would be so much fun to make!
I have 2 diode lasers, the Roly Lasermatic 10 and the NextWave Moray ready 2 laser. Both have full enclosures which is important to me because I have children. The Roly 10 watt diode was easily capable of cutting through 7mm cedar planks. If you hope to do work at a craft faire, I suggest getting an enclosure for your laser.
Thanks Kim and Garrett. You guys are amazing with all your tutorials, designs and making the rest of us better at what we all LOVE. My niche is door hangers and engraving cutting boards. Would love a xTool.
I would love the diode laser. I currently have a Glowforge pro
Great video. I am new to this and would love a P2. They seem to be the best on the market! Hopefully one day I will get one! Thanks for the video.
I always enjoy watching and learning from you two! I currently have a Glowforge Pro but have yet to use the pass-through. I really want to get the F1 XTool but have been holding off.
It would be awesome to have the P2 to work with a C02 laser. I’m looking to get into laser engraving doing research now. I like your content and your style. Lots of fun on your channel. Thank you for sharing and I hope to join the laser engraving ranks soon.
Thank you for breaking down the lasers. Newbie here and still deciding on which Laser. If I do decide on xTool, The P2 sounds right for me. Too bad I missed out on the $500 off but still looks like xTool is for me.
I would love to start laser engraving cutting. Really believe I could do well in South Africa so thank you both for all the videos and advice started watching you with sublimation and so glad you progressed down this road aswell
Hey very nice to meet you. I am currently working 3 jobs. I am wanting to start my aode hustle hopping to replace 2 of them. I live in a pretty decent size town. I look forward to your videos and help thank you so much. I am hopping to start with a Co2 laser. Can they do tumblers as well?
Love your videos and energy. Just got a f1 and enjoy it more every day.
Just getting started in the world of lasers. I would love a chance to get a D1 Pro 20 watt. I think that would be a great place to start. Thanks for sharing
The 20watt would be a great place to start. Good Luck, Kevin! ~garrett
I just bought the polar omtech laser and I haven't got it out of the box yet, don't give me a bad time I just got it yesterday and it is 105 degrees today. I am thinking my niche will be door signs like you guys make. I would like to play with design because I love the 3d look of signs and garlands. In my home town, we have about 23,000 people and hardly anyone puts anything on their doors. Last year, I did floral wreaths, no one wants to pay that price! The people whom have door hangers are wooden flowers or a flip flop or a high school hanger. I know they bought most of those at least 3-5 years ago. I would even like to sell the kits like you do and encourage group painting parties. I am also intrigued with the portable xtool F1 diode laser to personalize at craft fairs on the spot. I think you could do ornaments, bookmarks for kids(I am a retired teacher), pencils, etc....
Love your guys channel, vibe and reviews.
I love making signs!! And I love watching your tutorials.
Thanks so much 😊 Good Luck! ~garrett
Hi and Thank you for the video, we have not quit figured out our niche, we do a little of everything right now. Thinking of the F1 for the portability of being able to take it with to do craft Fairs for the on site personalizations.
We’ve been watching you both for a long time and we’re usually laughing! We would love to expand our ability to include metal and jewelry, the F1 would be a great add! Our niche is everything custom! Weddings and wineries! We live 12 miles from our areas wine country! Glass, wood, paper and acrylic everything, maybe some engraved flasks and bracelets for wedding party gifts.
Hi guys, I have my eye on the P2. Business is starting to pick up and it would make life a lot easier.
Just ordered my xtool f1. Cant wait to use it, you guys helped make the decision easier. The f1 is something i can start to play with without braking the bank. Keep up the good work
F1 is a great little versatile laser to start with! Thanks for commenting and good luck!
I'd love the Xtool IR F1 laser. I could use it to expand my business and help me move onto other areas such as metal items. I love that it is small and portable.
I think it cool that you can remove the bottom and set it on larger things. Good Luck, Steve! ~garrett
Hi guys!! E are very interested in expanding our current 3d side hustle into lasers as well. Would LOVE to get the IR laser, the F1. Great content as always!
I do a lot of cnc work. I would love to have the 20 xtool D1 Pro for engraving as well as occasionally cutting small parts that are difficult on my cnc.
Nice work. Enjoy learning the process to apply what I do.
The d1 would be nice to own .I would make door hangers and craft for craft fairs
OMG you guys are awesome. Thanks so much for doing this video. I really want a CO2.
Thx for the video! I’m very intrigued by the P2!!!! Starting a leather accessory business and wondering if that is the laser for me.
Hey Amy! The P2 does great with leather booth engraving and cutting. Good Luck! ~garrett
K&G! Y'all are so fun! I made my family watch some of your UA-cam videos and now they all call him Pocketsaw guy. I would love a bigger laser but the portability of the F1 for on the spot customization would be awesome!
Such a great video. Thanks guys.
I make different items for craft shows from small to large and a P2 is on my list to make keychain cut outs then use the F1 at the shows to personalize them for customers while they wait. To make more money at shows with this level of personalization will sell more items!
YES!!! WE think so too! Good Luck, Bob! ~garrett
I have a diode and CO2 already so I would love to get my hands on an F1, that way I have all the materials covered. I make hangers, leaners, rames signs and anything else I'm asked about.
Have a hobby CNC and would like to move into laser. Desire the P2 CO2 laser due to the safety features and advanced features. Thanks for the introduction to the different lasers!
Hey! You've been selected as one of the winners for the giveaway! Email us at support@kandgmakeit.com for the next step!
It would be awesome to have the F1 - I'm hoping to expand my jewelry making business by engraving metal, glass and acrylic!! Love your channel and all of the inspiration you give to us crafters to go out and do it!! Thank you both!!!
That would be cool! Thanks Kathleen! Good Luck! ~garrett
Thanks yall
Leather and wood is what I work with . I like the P2 laser
I would love to get the F1.. I mean that P2 also.. But the F1 for those quick things at shows would be great
Hi !! I’m Wendy I’m in Idaho. I would love the D1 laser. I mostly make door hangers and being able to cut out words for the signs would up my game. You guys are awesome!! Love watching all your videos
Currently I make pet cremation urns. I've been selling them mostly by word of mouth, I have sold a couple on Facebook marketplace. I will be showing and leaving samples at local veterinary offices and animal hospitals in my area.
I believe having a Lazer ingraver would allow me to move up by allowing me to offer personal inscriptions on the urns. Even an engraved portrait of the loved pet.
The D1 would do the job, as most of the materials I use are flat, and would be engraved prior to assembling.
That is a great niche. I bet you could do more than just local. Good Luck! ~garrett
At the moment I have a 5w diode laser that I've been engraving cellphone stands. I would choose the P2 CO2 laser to get into making wall decor. I think that one will help me open the opportunity to make more money.
WHOA! That would be a heck of a jump from 5 to 55!!! I would love to be there for your first cut, because I know how stoked I was on my for my first big cut. there was a lot of "Look at that $h!#! So AWESOME!" What kind of cell phone stands? Post your stuff on our FaceBook Group, I'd love to see it! Good Luck, Michael! ~garrett
I’d love the f1 and or P2 I’ve been eyeing them both. I’m a handmade jewelry artist working with glass and metal, I think I can do some amazing things with it like engraving on the glass and inspirational sayings on my jewelry. Thank you for your amazing content. 🙏🏻
Yes, the F1 is a precision engraver and can engrave the tiniest letters and detail!
The P2 for sure. Me and my girlfriend run a small laser business now and I work a 70hr week full time job. We do everything from door hangers to key chains. All with 2 20watt lasers.
Wow! Yes, the P2 is the perfect next step for you guys! Thanks for commenting and good luck!!!
Thank you and keep up the great work.
Great information as always
The P2 looks very intriguing. I have never used a CO2 laser.
I carve porch signs mainly, but i recently bought the F1 for craft fairs. I wasn't able to but the air purifier for the F1. That's on my wish list right now. I have made mini cutting boards to engrave at the craft fairs. My first fair was a fundraiser for a friends sister. I was able to engrave purses with no problem. But the smoke from the cutting boards was a bit much for inside.
Hi Chris! We've been amazed with that little purifier, it works great! Perfect to take to the shows! Thanks for commenting and good luck!
@K&G My wife and I love your videos!!! Any of the XTools would be great! My wife is on 100% disability due to a quack and does all types of crafting as a means to stay busy and earn a little extra cash. One of the XTools would allow her to step up her game a bit. We'll eventually get her one, one way or another. Just watching your videos has encouraged us :) Take care and God bless!
Hi Daniel! I think any of them would be a great start and will definitely help earn a little extra cash! Thanks for commenting and good luck!
Hello everyone! I already have an xTool D1 20W with a rotary, and a Ortur lasermaster 2. I have done some engraving test on plywood and canvas. I would like to start a small side hustle as soon as possible. first I want to buy a xTool F1 and later i hope i could invest in a P2 as well. 😃👍
I just got part of my new xTOOL F1 and can’t wait to get the rest so I can try it out. Thank You for all that you’ve done for everyone.
Oooh! The F1 is a fun one! It's such a versatile machine with both diode & infrared lasers on it! Join our FB group and show us what you're making with it! Good luck!
Thanks yall. I hoping to buy one next year. Hope y'all have a wonderful day.
I have been researching lasers for several months and have been so confused! I'm seriously leaning towards a CO2, desktop version, but not quite sure! I'd love to try any of them, but for what I want to make I would choose the P2. I like that it's all enclosed as well and I love the cameras on them! You guys are a hoot to watch, thanks for all of your hard work and sharing so much!
Hi Scrappinmama! That's where I started, scrapbooking, I miss it! And YES the cameras on the P2 are amazing, we can truly line things up at such a detailed level! Thanks for commenting and good luck!
@@KimandGarrettmakeit Awe, that's so awesome! COVID and my kids getting older and busier have kept me from scrapping now for several years. I miss it, yet I don't at the same time! LOL! Thank you for the reply! I think I should go with a desktop. I get into SO many crafts, then stop, I don't want a huge machine taking up space if I don't use it! Ugh, decisions, decisions!! LOL!
Hi Kim & Garrett, for me I would like to have the P2....I currently have a side hustle, I make earrings and I have a Diode Laser, so I would like to try a CO2.....my next choice would be the X1 its bigger than my current diode......thanks for this giveaway ...I always enjoy your videos
Sheila Arnold with Signspirations LLC makes Sassy, Salty signs and customized layered signs for home decor. Other items that we are venturing in to is metal work for construction companies and home decor. I would love to receive the F1 Fiber Laser. I have a Diode and a CO2 - all are a lot of fun! Looking to create create kits and supply kits for area craft stores and paint shops in our area. The F1 will enhance my ability to cut and engrave on more metal items to expand the business even more!
How much do you charge per minute for laser time of xtool s1? Thank you
I am interested in the Xtool P2 eventually to do terrain pieces for gaming miniatures and diaoramas. Starting out I have been looking at the Xtool D1 Pro and then upgrade and build up from there.
OH! that is such a great niche! Post your stuff on our FaceBook Group, I'd love to see it! Good Luck, Jack ~garrett
I would love the P2. I make signs, home decor, and earrings; the feed through would be amazing. I would love to add to my crafts and move into a business. You need to publish a class!
You can for sure run a small business with the P2!
Love your videos. I neeeeeeeed the D1 pro. 😂😊
I am really looking at getting the xtool F1 to do slate coasters and jewerly
I am all signed up for groups and channels! I am especially interested in the IR laser - F1. I want to be able to engrave on metal items. Love your channel and allll of your videos! You guys rock! Great job!
F1 is a great choice! It's both an IR AND a diode! Best of both worlds, in a small working area!
I recently bought the 10 w d1pro I love trying to get ut figured out and start making money with camping signs and child stuff
Lots of great info guys! Thank you!
Thanks Karen!!!
I do sublimation and want the CO2 laser to make my own blanks, along with other laser products.
Been looking at lasers been doing research, I would love a Co 2 or one which I can use towards making signs to go with my wreaths. I have seen other uses that I would love to create. I’m trying to expand my side hustle to help bring extra money. Love learning from you guys.
Yes Charity! A CO2 will definitely take your business to the next level! For wreath signs, you can even start with a lower cost entry point like the D1 diode laser as well! Thanks for commenting and good luck!
Would love the one that cuts out the door hanger signs.
Thanks for the opportunity I would be happy with any of them the diode would help me with the tumbler market that I am in .
Hi, I make small wood crafts but would love to make decorations with cutouts and engraving. I’d love to buy the CO2 and sell items at craft shows.
Is creative space really many times slower than Lightburn? But Lightburn doesn't utilize all the neat features creative space has? Seems like both cameras would be a must have.... Which do you prefer? thx
I been making signs and porch leaners an all kinds of projects. I do it by myself and i cut everything out on a scroll saw, i’m 68 yrs now and i been crafting since i was 16. It would be a dream come true to win $500 towards the X-Tool . I think i would like the P2, since it’s inclosed iI been looking for months and feel i would enjoy this machine. Thank you for shearing your techniques, the items you use and i can go on and on.