To listen to the FULL INTERVIEW with Jacob Estes where we talk all about Venom, how it came to be, and its swift demise, please consider supporting us on Patreon! Patreon.com/hemmasstudios Or follow us on Twitter and Instagram @HemmasStudios
@@HemmasStudios_ can you do the batgirl movie, and the el mueto movie, or even the canceled madame web plot, I watched your video or canned goods a few days ago and now I’m hooked to your channel
@@funnydude447except in movies. They have factors that comics don't. Time passing, actor fees, audience being fickier about revivals. Comics are forever franchise all one has to do is draw them again since the second the writer shifts it's pretty much a reboot.
@@JimMilton55 I'm thinking the same thing. The symbiotes definitely should be able to live that long, they just need a host since they might die without one after too long.
Sony loves repurposing their old scripts, read David Koepp's Spider-Man 2 draft and it literally has Captain Stacy and Peter's argument at the Stacy family dinner just like TASM 1 ended up having.
I think Carnage being the villain is a bit of a stretch- he’s *the* Venom villain. But you’re not wrong. I did a video a few years ago on the 1997 Venom script- where Carnage dies in a way that’s *eerily* similar to how Eddie “Dies” in Spider-Man 3
However people have felt about Tom Hardy's Venom, at least now we can say that he's carried the character through 3 whole movies after Topher Grace barely got to be Venom for just one.
To be fair the Symbiote itself did survive the movie. Curt had a sample of it and the webbing used by Venom are independent Symbiote chunks, too. Edward Brock junior is, of course, named after his father. My guess is that the Eddie Brock of the movie would've been the father of the Eddie Brock in Spiderman 3.
The ending reminds me of the " War Of The Symbiotes " storyline from Ultimate Spider-Man when Venom absorbed the Carnage symbiote and transformed into a demonic looking monster that didn't resemble Venom or Carnage.
I absolutely loved that segment you created for “the symbiote transfer hookup scene” . The interview was amazing too. I’m loving your channel and I’m looking forward to more amazing videos from you in the future! I would totally go see an R-rated Venom movie!
“Lewis Brock” being the name of Eddie’s father is a strange call, as Spider-Man 3 uses the comic accurate name with Eddie introducing himself as “Edward Brock Jr”
Marvel fans: "We want VENOM to be R-Rated." Avi Arad: "VENOM will be PG-13, so everyone can bring their children to watch it. It will be fun for the whole family." Me: "þussy"
I mean, if Terminator, Robocop and Alien can get kids merchandise despite being rated r, then why can’t venom? (I know it was the 90s I was just wondering.)
I had a similar idea a while back for Venom to come back to life in this universe. I was inspired by the Ultimate universe where Gwen came back to life with a new body made by the symbiote, and by the Venom sample that Doctor Connors kept. But I didn't expect them to actually consider doing something like this in a Venom spin-off movie. If they had planned it a little better, they would have just left Eddie alive at the end of Spider-Man 3 instead of him jumping on the bomb and exploding.
To be honest when i was a kid , i had this idea of Spider-Man 4 including that Eddit Brock lived , i would say kinda since i had access to Ultimate Spider-Man and this idea happened with Gwen and also in the main Marvel Universe since Cletus Kassidy was bonded permenantly with the Carnage Symbiote through his blood especially during Maximum Carnage.
Dude, I loved this. You should interview Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4 writters to know more about it. We already know a bit of Jeffrey Henderson, storybosrd artist for the film. He already talked about it in the "Movies Go Fourth" book, but maybe he could let us know EVEN MORE about it!
I would *love* that. The dream would be somehow getting the full script and sharing it. Because let me be clear. If I ever got that script I’d drop everything and immediately go to cover it.
i'd probably rewrite the ending to be more in line with how the 2018 film ended. With Venom ejecting Eddie at the last second and with an epilogue showing that Eddie and Venom are still bonded despite Venom's apparent sacrifice
@@mc.gemstone Raimi having to kill off Venom at the very end of SM3 almost as quickly as he appeared is one of the main reasons why I've been appreciative that the newer movies have done so much more for the character, regardless of how divisive they've been considered to be by critics and fans alike. Also *ending spoiler warning* for Last Dance, but even after they show Venom sacrificing himself to protect Eddie it's implied in a post-credits scene that he isn't actually gone completely. Since Raimi's Venom never ended up getting any spin-off of his own all people know from the ending of SM3 is that both his Venom & Eddie are more or less just dead, and always left feeling like kind of a waste of the character with what very little screen time Topher Grace actually had as Venom.
The movie sounds like it was going to be great but Cletus being obsessed with the idea of singing opera seems off I’ll say he was a serial killer before and was captured and put in an asylum Once there they tried making him like music and singing as a way for him to get rid of his violent tendencies Which he eventually grew obsessed with and once it didn’t get him anywhere he reverted back from this rehabilitation to becoming a serial killer again
I'm going to be honest, that joke never crossed my mind at any point during making the video- but I'm shocked that this is the case. What a legendary tweet! :P
I saw someone have the idea that Eddie and venom were able to live because of the droplet Connor’s had and Eddie’s essence had fused with the symbiote that much that he or “they” became one. And it’s how he was able to come back
Dude I love your videos! Every time you read us a cancelled script it’s like the movie is being made in my head. In a way these cancelled movies were made by our own imagination thank you for that keep going don’t step on the breaks kind sir!
I waited to hear this story for so long and after digesting it a few more times, it is quite entertaining although Cletus being a failed Broadway singer is my least favorite aspect, unless it was a tool he used to try and rehabilitate himself only to fall back to his dark tendencies, then it works but the execution on him singing Opera to his victims can easily come across incredibly cheesy if not executed properly. I think Honey could have also been Anne Weying, now working at a distant diner after she got involved in a legal case that essentially blackballed her but other than that and the ending kind of feeling sad and abrupt, it is a very fun story and I hope it's script can be read fully as you're really the only person to ever cover Topher Grace's Venom movie, amazing job!
I'm mixed about this spin-off...some of the ideas were good, others not so much...Honey's character is abit inconsistent and needed some work (specifically her betrayal and pointless Symbiot)...the ending doesn't sound very satisfying...and my final gripe is Eddie's lack of continuity since he should have probably straight away wanted to find and kill Peter after waking up since he still hates his guts....I think the only way his objective could change is if he talked out his frustrations with Honey and she would have pointed out how Eddie screwed both Spidey and Peter with his fake picture etc and that would lead Eddie to thinking about changing his career to writing a biography about the "heroic Venom" which is why he gets motivated to start stopping crime and make a name for himself as a hero (you could also tie in that the Symbiot enjoyed stopping crime with Peter which adds an extra layer of motivation).
I think these are definitely cool ideas- and what you’re saying makes a lot of sense. I wonder if stuff like what you’re saying would have been implemented if Estes had the opportunity to do a rewrite. But the point about Honey’s betrayal- in the script her betrayal is laid out in a cleaner way. Estes does a great job with showing Eddie on his crime stopping spree getting more and more violent and Honey getting progressively more unnerved, which works in a movie, but is much harder to communicate in a high level plot summary!
@@HemmasStudios_thanks for clearing that up. I might actually look into the script for more details if it's publicly available, but I'd just like to say that you did a great job on the video. Its high quality reflects the great deal of effort you clearly put in. Looking forward to future uploads!
@@Plexer101 Thank you so much for the kind words! There are few things I loved more growing up than the Raimi Spider Man Trilogy, so getting a chance to contribute to that legacy with revealing the full plot for Venom like this- I really wanted to go big on it!
Funny you mention that- I actually had a whole section written for this video about that part of Spider-Man 3's development and the changeover to Venom as a villain, but it wasn't totally relevant so I omitted it.
I noticed Venom in the movie didn’t look at all like he does in your thumbnail or other materials where he’s posted like action figure artwork. The Venom in your thumbnail looks bigger, and I like the way the face looks more than he did in the movie.
@@HemmasStudios_ since Spider-Man 3's ending was changed in reshoots, it's pretty evident Venom got redesigned last minute in the movie as Raimi's initial version of the movie was deemed "too scary" for test audiences as behind the scenes photos show a very different Venom suit and all that jazz.
Spider-Man 3 is my favourite Marvel movie. Would've loved to watch Topher Grace return as Venom. Coincidentally, Bullets and Blockbusters also uploaded a video on this topic a few days ago.
I would have loved to see more Topher, I think he got a raw deal in Spider Man 3. He could have been great as Eddie! I saw B&B's video and it was great! It's always nice when the love for a topic is coming from multiple spots in our community :)
I’ve always wondered how a Venom movie would look if they tried to reconcile the old canon w/ the newer post-Donny Cates Venom canon and this kind of comes pretty close to it like how The Last Dance seems to. It’s wild how much bl00d got squeezed from that stone to write this especially when this was shortly before (or at the start of?) the Agent Venom stuff with Flash Thompson…so they had to make it up as they went along back then 🤷🏽♂️
This movie would have went hard and made totally much sense if they had to carry on sam raimi and tobey maguires spider-man storyline and built on this world
I would’ve loved to have gotten a Spider-Man 4 and a venom spinoff. That Venom will always be the best live action version of Venom we’ve ever gotten. He was actually Scary and a serious character. But as usual, Sony is a huge disease and ruins everything.
Much like Warner Bros usually being their own worst enemy to make good DC movies, Sony is usually their own worst enemy of making great Spider Man movies.
Topher as Brock fucking sucked, he wasnt big enough, was a generic bad guy. they didn't even get the church scene correct. Venom was the worst part of Spider-Man 3 and to say it's not is revisionist Eddie was praying for forgiveness for his impending suicide. Topher's Eddie was praying for Peter's death. Completely out of character
@@EnigmaticVayne He wasn’t huge but he was bigger and buffer than Spider-Man and he was scary. Venom isn’t 8 foot tall. I thought Venom shouldn’t have been in the movie to begin with, but the look of the character was good, acting wasnt
@@FrIcKeFrEsH02 he was like 2 inches taller than Spider-Man. And the exact same size. WTH are talking about? And you should go look at Venom to Spider-Man sizes in the comics, Venom is way bigger
Dawg it sounds like they were stealing parts especially with that jail scene because venom snapped in venom 2 but eddie didn't go that far to hitting gaurds
As a kid I had a dream of going to the theaters to see Spiderman 4 and the movie poster had venom fighting carnage in it. God, I was pissed to wake up. Sony could've done venom a better, though I like the design. Even Venom in the ps1 game had more charisma than movie venom but you need Spiderman for that dynamic I guess.
This is new. The only other script details are from Goyer which included a past with Eddie and Cletus and it was around i think 1997. And the whole spider like decals Venom uses from his webs and that of the symbiotes using a race of six armed spider aliens, explaining his Venom symbol too.
I love that Goyer script- I made a video about it a few years ago. It's funny how some of the stuff not from the comics repeats into the movies that actually released.
Is there a way I can find the early draft of this script? I had no idea the story was gonna be this different I thought it would be similar to the 2018 Venom movie. The idea of Eddie realising he fucked up killing people was unexpected too. I'm kinda sad this never happened the love triangle between Eddie, Venom and Honey is wild! xD
If I could fix Spider-Man 3 a little, I'll probably have Aaron Eckhart as Eddie Brock Sr as the main villain in Spider-Man 3 and then have Topher Grace as Eddie Brock Jr. in his own spin-off. That way, the plot can follow Eddie Jr hearing about his father's death in an explosion at a construction site caused by Spider-Man and wants to avenge his father by killing Spider-Man himself.
I think the biggest thing against this movie is the simple fact that all Spider-Man has to do in this universe is just go on record immediately saying "Hey Eddie Brock is actually Venom, he tried to kill me and my girlfriend, as well as Harry frickin Osborn" lol Not to mention that Venom did spin webs in Spider-Man 3... like a lot. I don't know why they tried to make it into a big moment. Also find this (early) iteration of Venom very strange... I kinda like how they keep to it being non-verbal like in the movie, but the symbiote suddenly taking on the characteristics of the Hulk with how it uncontrollably emerges just feels off in this script. Not to mention the exposition just sounds incredibly clunky... I know it was a rough draft and what not but I am super glad they didn't go with this
Wouldn’t be great if we got SM4 with a better written version of this happening in the background at the exact same time But at the end of the film Peter hears the news and goes to find Eddie, and hears about the Carnage fight then he’s in the final fight too
I would've ended it with Sunny calling of going to Peter and MJ's home and asking Pete for help with the symbiote to either remove it or to help train them both.
@@kwayneboy1524 interesting… I would have ended with it being the same bridge that the Goblin fight was on from the first movie. Peter would find one or a few pumpkin bombs and use the one on Cassidy, knocking him down into the water temporarily so Eddie can explain how he survived and so on
You know, I have to be honest. I would love to see this original version which shows the redemption of Eddie and Venom after they survived (somehow?) the blast. By the way, funny thing is that in the original ending of Spider-Man 3, which is only known to those who are real Spidey fans and Lost Media fans, that Venom ate Eddie because of the hate he had towards Peter when Peter stabbed Venom instead of tossing him. Peter is shocked that he almost looses to the symbiote until he uses some metal bars to defeat him without the explosion (added in the in the movie after screening) which leads to the symbiote to basically escape Peter in a liquid body inside the small cracks on the floor. So that original ending would explain how they both survived if they didn't change it after screening. But I would change some things in the movie to make it more awesome.
The canceled movie I would have loved to see is The amazing Spider-Man versus Spider-Man sony was playing a team up movie between Andrew Garfield Spider-Man and Tobey Maguire Spider-Man as a part of their amazing Spider-Man cinematic universe
With the release of Transformers ONE, i would LOVE for you to cover the cancelled 2000s live action Sonys Transformers movie directed by Joseph Kahn, a supposedly dark, edgy and hardcore movie that predates the Michael Bays movies. It would be neat to know the story behind the mivie
What… did I just listen to… I’m sorry, what was that?! This is the goofiest R rated movie I’ve ever heard. To whoever wrote this movie’s script… what were you doing back then?
To listen to the FULL INTERVIEW with Jacob Estes where we talk all about Venom, how it came to be, and its swift demise, please consider supporting us on Patreon!
Patreon.com/hemmasstudios
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@@HemmasStudios_ can you do the batgirl movie, and the el mueto movie, or even the canceled madame web plot, I watched your video or canned goods a few days ago and now I’m hooked to your channel
Can you make jan de bonts godzilla film that was cancalled please
" Somehow Venom Returned"
The same thing happened to Ultimate Venom. At first, he got vaporized by electric cables and then he showed up at Central Park with no explanation.😅
@Facade953 he didn't get vaporized tho just shocked. He fled
"No one's ever really gone"
@@funnydude447except in movies. They have factors that comics don't. Time passing, actor fees, audience being fickier about revivals. Comics are forever franchise all one has to do is draw them again since the second the writer shifts it's pretty much a reboot.
@@aurahoneydew9607Peter Cushing, Carrie Fisher, and Ian Holm would beg to differ. These days, no one is ever really gone.
This version’s venom has one of the craziest healing factors in film I’ve seen in a while
Can't they just live forever by always leaving pieces of themselves scattered somewhere?
@@JimMilton55
I'm thinking the same thing. The symbiotes definitely should be able to live that long, they just need a host since they might die without one after too long.
"Eddie calls his father, Senator Lewis Brock"
"It's Brock, sir. Edward Brock Junior"
Also my first thought when I read the name in the script :P
Which is funny because that's not his name in the comics. So if they left his name as Edward Charles Allan Brock there wouldn't be a plot hole.
@@Celtic1020 It's his name in the Ultimate Spider-Man comics.
It's funny that the RV family and Casady being the villain would be used in Let There Be Carnage and The Last Dance....
Yeah how weird it is
@@srstriker6420yeh and threcwas anther vdnomn sinpoff scripts Don jn found footage styles eh itbeou ben li rely scary and hard r rated as well
They also seemed to have reworked the church scene as well for Let there Be Carnage.
I wonder how much of it is really a coincidence?
Sony loves repurposing their old scripts, read David Koepp's Spider-Man 2 draft and it literally has Captain Stacy and Peter's argument at the Stacy family dinner just like TASM 1 ended up having.
I think Carnage being the villain is a bit of a stretch- he’s *the* Venom villain. But you’re not wrong.
I did a video a few years ago on the 1997 Venom script- where Carnage dies in a way that’s *eerily* similar to how Eddie “Dies” in Spider-Man 3
Carnage being a rejected opera singer sounds hillarious!😂🤣
so Topher Graces Eddie was gonna survive being in a Explosion from a Pumpkin bomb? how the hell
He saw the potential money and resurrected.
@@1-Cørps-1 ha very funny not
However people have felt about Tom Hardy's Venom, at least now we can say that he's carried the character through 3 whole movies after Topher Grace barely got to be Venom for just one.
@@nicksorenson940 but IMO Tophers Eddie at least had Spider-Man and was comic accurate
eddie idk how but dr conners had a sample of the symbiote
Cletus singing opera to his victims before dismembering them. That’s messed up
“He must’ve had a good reason for doing that.” LMAOOOO
To be fair the Symbiote itself did survive the movie. Curt had a sample of it and the webbing used by Venom are independent Symbiote chunks, too. Edward Brock junior is, of course, named after his father. My guess is that the Eddie Brock of the movie would've been the father of the Eddie Brock in Spiderman 3.
I like that it makes more sense
The ending reminds me of the " War Of The Symbiotes " storyline from Ultimate Spider-Man when Venom absorbed the Carnage symbiote and transformed into a demonic looking monster that didn't resemble Venom or Carnage.
and was imprisoned by S.H.I.E.L.D
I like the idea of Venom absorbing Carnage and changing his look a bit, from black to a more blueish or purple color.
This definitely sounds like it was written during a writer's strike.😅
19:56 nothing could have prepared me for this
Does this cement me on the nice list for life?
I absolutely loved that segment you created for “the symbiote transfer hookup scene” . The interview was amazing too. I’m loving your channel and I’m looking forward to more amazing videos from you in the future! I would totally go see an R-rated Venom movie!
Thank you so much! That hookup scene was one of my favorite things I've ever made, so I'm glad you enjoyed it too! :)
“Lewis Brock” being the name of Eddie’s father is a strange call, as Spider-Man 3 uses the comic accurate name with Eddie introducing himself as “Edward Brock Jr”
That was the first thing I thought of when I read the name in the script. Surely, that would have been changed in a re-write!
To be honest, that's only his name in the Ultimate verse.
@@extracheap8472 the issue is his name is eddie jr in sm3, that means his father cannot be anything other than eddie sr
@@CoNnOr5899 Good point
Maybe Edward Brock was his grandpa's name?
Venom getting jealous and wanting Eddie for himself is hot af
So Venom is gay?
19:51 THAT CAUGHT ME SO OFF GUARD 🤣
I was waiting for someone to bring it up :)
This whole thing is insane
I don't know why, but something just unlocked something in me
@@klytg303 should I apologize or thank you? :)
3:03 hard R is CRAAAAAZY
Nahhh facts
Sounds a pretty fun watch, i wish we had better venom representation in film
The webs being used as a reference to spider man and mental block is really cool actually really like that idea
I thank you for having this this video, and understand what could’ve been after Spier-Man 3. Love it!
Always great to see you Gos, glad you liked it- it was a pleasure to make :)
Marvel fans: "We want VENOM to be R-Rated."
Avi Arad: "VENOM will be PG-13, so everyone can bring their children to watch it. It will be fun for the whole family."
Me: "þussy"
I mean, if Terminator, Robocop and Alien can get kids merchandise despite being rated r, then why can’t venom? (I know it was the 90s I was just wondering.)
@@Granados07or they can sell Deadpool and Harley Quinn despite being R rated
BASED.
Specially Carnage.
Fr FCK them little kids they'll love the movies either way if it's bad or good they don't care
Ive grown to love Spider-Man 3 over time man
You and me both. I especially love the Editors cut of the movie they put out a few years ago.
It bad compared to the others? Yes
It's a monstruosity? Nah.
0:40 that fob jumpscare caught me off guard
The music jumpscares are my favorite parts of every video
really enjoyed this movie
the raimi verse all together
i would have KILLED to see this happen
I kinda like Spider-Man three
Oh, let me be clear, I *love* Spider-Man 3
I respect that you like Spider-Man 3, so do I better than movies coming out today.
It's better than Madame web at least
Same
hot take but spiderman 3’s venom is my favorite version
That’s definitely a hot take but I appreciate you saying it with your whole chest 😎
Same here.😊
Same
W opinion 🔥
12:55 Venom actually glowing red when he's hit would be so cool
I had a similar idea a while back for Venom to come back to life in this universe. I was inspired by the Ultimate universe where Gwen came back to life with a new body made by the symbiote, and by the Venom sample that Doctor Connors kept. But I didn't expect them to actually consider doing something like this in a Venom spin-off movie. If they had planned it a little better, they would have just left Eddie alive at the end of Spider-Man 3 instead of him jumping on the bomb and exploding.
To be honest when i was a kid , i had this idea of Spider-Man 4 including that Eddit Brock lived , i would say kinda since i had access to Ultimate Spider-Man and this idea happened with Gwen and also in the main Marvel Universe since Cletus Kassidy was bonded permenantly with the Carnage Symbiote through his blood especially during Maximum Carnage.
Dude, I loved this. You should interview Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4 writters to know more about it. We already know a bit of Jeffrey Henderson, storybosrd artist for the film. He already talked about it in the "Movies Go Fourth" book, but maybe he could let us know EVEN MORE about it!
I would *love* that. The dream would be somehow getting the full script and sharing it. Because let me be clear. If I ever got that script I’d drop everything and immediately go to cover it.
i'd probably rewrite the ending to be more in line with how the 2018 film ended. With Venom ejecting Eddie at the last second and with an epilogue showing that Eddie and Venom are still bonded despite Venom's apparent sacrifice
Same! Idk why they keep killing off Raimi Venom so many times, where that be in this or other adaptions.
Also hi Klonoa :]
@@mc.gemstone Raimi having to kill off Venom at the very end of SM3 almost as quickly as he appeared is one of the main reasons why I've been appreciative that the newer movies have done so much more for the character, regardless of how divisive they've been considered to be by critics and fans alike.
Also *ending spoiler warning* for Last Dance, but even after they show Venom sacrificing himself to protect Eddie it's implied in a post-credits scene that he isn't actually gone completely. Since Raimi's Venom never ended up getting any spin-off of his own all people know from the ending of SM3 is that both his Venom & Eddie are more or less just dead, and always left feeling like kind of a waste of the character with what very little screen time Topher Grace actually had as Venom.
When you read the script it’s definitely implied to be the Topher Eddie
The movie sounds like it was going to be great but Cletus being obsessed with the idea of singing opera seems off
I’ll say he was a serial killer before and was captured and put in an asylum
Once there they tried making him like music and singing as a way for him to get rid of his violent tendencies
Which he eventually grew obsessed with and once it didn’t get him anywhere he reverted back from this rehabilitation to becoming a serial killer again
If venom 08 or 09 got a video game on the ps3. I wouldn't be suprised
I find it funny how they basically recycled aspects of this for Venom 2 and 3
19:52 Insert 19 inches of Venom jokes here! Lol
I'm going to be honest, that joke never crossed my mind at any point during making the video- but I'm shocked that this is the case. What a legendary tweet! :P
Not gonna lie,this script sounds pretty decent,would've loved to see this.
And it’s only a first draft! It could have been even better with a rewrite!
I saw someone have the idea that Eddie and venom were able to live because of the droplet Connor’s had and Eddie’s essence had fused with the symbiote that much that he or “they” became one. And it’s how he was able to come back
Lmaooo what the hell could Peter be thinking when he sees Eddie on the news talking about Venom saving lives on the other side of the country
Sounds pretty stuffed, but carnage sounds way cooler here than the one we got in the Tom hardy movies
Actually really like a lot of these ideas. The ending seems a bit ridiculous but I could see it working
Dude I love your videos! Every time you read us a cancelled script it’s like the movie is being made in my head. In a way these cancelled movies were made by our own imagination thank you for that keep going don’t step on the breaks kind sir!
Aww that's very kind of you to say! Thank you so much!
This would have been great!
even if it was animated too
We need a Venom Horror Movie
I'd love one! Especially if they adapted the story from 'Venom: The Hunger!'
welcome back
Always great to see you Fiction Rumble
@@HemmasStudios_ you too!😁👍🏻
I waited to hear this story for so long and after digesting it a few more times, it is quite entertaining although Cletus being a failed Broadway singer is my least favorite aspect, unless it was a tool he used to try and rehabilitate himself only to fall back to his dark tendencies, then it works but the execution on him singing Opera to his victims can easily come across incredibly cheesy if not executed properly.
I think Honey could have also been Anne Weying, now working at a distant diner after she got involved in a legal case that essentially blackballed her but other than that and the ending kind of feeling sad and abrupt, it is a very fun story and I hope it's script can be read fully as you're really the only person to ever cover Topher Grace's Venom movie, amazing job!
Its cool how some parts of the script was later used in the sony venom movies, like how Cletus Kasady becomes Carnage
I'm mixed about this spin-off...some of the ideas were good, others not so much...Honey's character is abit inconsistent and needed some work (specifically her betrayal and pointless Symbiot)...the ending doesn't sound very satisfying...and my final gripe is Eddie's lack of continuity since he should have probably straight away wanted to find and kill Peter after waking up since he still hates his guts....I think the only way his objective could change is if he talked out his frustrations with Honey and she would have pointed out how Eddie screwed both Spidey and Peter with his fake picture etc and that would lead Eddie to thinking about changing his career to writing a biography about the "heroic Venom" which is why he gets motivated to start stopping crime and make a name for himself as a hero (you could also tie in that the Symbiot enjoyed stopping crime with Peter which adds an extra layer of motivation).
I think these are definitely cool ideas- and what you’re saying makes a lot of sense. I wonder if stuff like what you’re saying would have been implemented if Estes had the opportunity to do a rewrite.
But the point about Honey’s betrayal- in the script her betrayal is laid out in a cleaner way.
Estes does a great job with showing Eddie on his crime stopping spree getting more and more violent and Honey getting progressively more unnerved, which works in a movie, but is much harder to communicate in a high level plot summary!
@@HemmasStudios_thanks for clearing that up. I might actually look into the script for more details if it's publicly available, but I'd just like to say that you did a great job on the video. Its high quality reflects the great deal of effort you clearly put in. Looking forward to future uploads!
@@Plexer101 Thank you so much for the kind words! There are few things I loved more growing up than the Raimi Spider Man Trilogy, so getting a chance to contribute to that legacy with revealing the full plot for Venom like this- I really wanted to go big on it!
@@HemmasStudios_ As a huge fan of the original Raimi trilogy, I have to say that you definitely crushed it! 💪🏻
Just imagine Eric Foreman finding out his super power goo is slowly eating him alive
Fun fact, Venom wasn’t supposed to be in Spider-Man 3. It was supposed to be Vulture
And now Vulture is currently in the world of Morbius. Has something to do with Spider-Man, I think.
Funny you mention that- I actually had a whole section written for this video about that part of Spider-Man 3's development and the changeover to Venom as a villain, but it wasn't totally relevant so I omitted it.
18:54 *Shadow the Hedgehog (Keanu Reeves) wants to know Carnage's Location*
HA! I didn't even make the 'Dead Dog'/Keanu connection
25:19 they made zombie land, and were making a venom movie, and WOODY HARLESON WAS IN ZOMBIE LAND!
And the director of Zombieland directed Venom (2018)...
'VENOM!" -Eminem.
Song is a banger- listened to it on the way to see Venom 3 yesterday!
@@HemmasStudios_eh not reply an Eminem fan czmtbrel stand him thsevdays notbatter hjsxwokevtds rants abut orange man bad
Cletus singing an operatic song made me envision him as the Simpsons Sideshow Bob
I like some ideas were used for Tom Hardy's Venom.
But not gonna lie, Eddie being reconstructed by the symbiote is pretty weird.
I noticed Venom in the movie didn’t look at all like he does in your thumbnail or other materials where he’s posted like action figure artwork. The Venom in your thumbnail looks bigger, and I like the way the face looks more than he did in the movie.
You’re 1000% correct. It was always weird to me that the Venom in the movie is different than the one in the marketing material…
@@HemmasStudios_ since Spider-Man 3's ending was changed in reshoots, it's pretty evident Venom got redesigned last minute in the movie as Raimi's initial version of the movie was deemed "too scary" for test audiences as behind the scenes photos show a very different Venom suit and all that jazz.
Dang we need this made fr
Spider-Man 3 is my favourite Marvel movie. Would've loved to watch Topher Grace return as Venom.
Coincidentally, Bullets and Blockbusters also uploaded a video on this topic a few days ago.
I would have loved to see more Topher, I think he got a raw deal in Spider Man 3. He could have been great as Eddie! I saw B&B's video and it was great! It's always nice when the love for a topic is coming from multiple spots in our community :)
@@HemmasStudios_🤝
I’ve always wondered how a Venom movie would look if they tried to reconcile the old canon w/ the newer post-Donny Cates Venom canon and this kind of comes pretty close to it like how The Last Dance seems to.
It’s wild how much bl00d got squeezed from that stone to write this especially when this was shortly before (or at the start of?) the Agent Venom stuff with Flash Thompson…so they had to make it up as they went along back then 🤷🏽♂️
The Dony Cates " Venom Canon " is horrible. He should have stuck to writing Thor stories and not retconning something that didn't need to be fixed.
22:17 Imagine closing your eyes and hearing this part
The Lethal Protector.. More like the Lethal Freaker
This was good until Venom and Carnage merged. That’s a cop out imo. Plus you delete two characters for no real pay off.
damn, this, spiderman 4 and tobey in avengers.... smh we are in the darkest timeline
If only it actually came out, I would watch it
This script sounds better than any VENOM movie we've gotten so far. Seriously this doesn't sound too bad for a first draft.
great vid mate
Thank you so much!
This movie actually sounds really good
Maybe the piece of Symbiote brought him to life
The Symbiote and Eddie are fused, so when the surviving chunks of them made it out of the battle and reintegrated back together, Eddie was revived!
This movie would have went hard and made totally much sense if they had to carry on sam raimi and tobey maguires spider-man storyline and built on this world
I would’ve loved to have gotten a Spider-Man 4 and a venom spinoff. That Venom will always be the best live action version of Venom we’ve ever gotten. He was actually Scary and a serious character. But as usual, Sony is a huge disease and ruins everything.
Much like Warner Bros usually being their own worst enemy to make good DC movies, Sony is usually their own worst enemy of making great Spider Man movies.
Topher as Brock fucking sucked, he wasnt big enough, was a generic bad guy. they didn't even get the church scene correct.
Venom was the worst part of Spider-Man 3 and to say it's not is revisionist
Eddie was praying for forgiveness for his impending suicide. Topher's Eddie was praying for Peter's death.
Completely out of character
@@EnigmaticVayne He wasn’t huge but he was bigger and buffer than Spider-Man and he was scary. Venom isn’t 8 foot tall. I thought Venom shouldn’t have been in the movie to begin with, but the look of the character was good, acting wasnt
@@FrIcKeFrEsH02 he was like 2 inches taller than Spider-Man. And the exact same size. WTH are talking about?
And you should go look at Venom to Spider-Man sizes in the comics, Venom is way bigger
Dawg it sounds like they were stealing parts especially with that jail scene because venom snapped in venom 2 but eddie didn't go that far to hitting gaurds
Hey can you make a video talking about the original version of "puss in boots: the last wish" that was call "puss in boots 2: 9 lives & 40 thieves"
As a kid I had a dream of going to the theaters to see Spiderman 4 and the movie poster had venom fighting carnage in it. God, I was pissed to wake up.
Sony could've done venom a better, though I like the design. Even Venom in the ps1 game had more charisma than movie venom but you need Spiderman for that dynamic I guess.
Curt Connors had a sample of the Symbiote, so I assumed venom wasnt 'Dead'
That was a different one, this is the same symbiote
@@Joey-vs4fr That was not a different symbiote. That was a piece of the venom symbiote.
@ okay thanks, might be debatable though
@@Joey-vs4frthere is no debate watch the movie 😭🙏 goofy
@@yoshigamemaster6127 well I don’t remember exactly how it went, but replaying it in my head I can actually see where you’re right
Better Than The Venom Movie We Got In 2018
This is new. The only other script details are from Goyer which included a past with Eddie and Cletus and it was around i think 1997.
And the whole spider like decals Venom uses from his webs and that of the symbiotes using a race of six armed spider aliens, explaining his Venom symbol too.
I love that Goyer script- I made a video about it a few years ago. It's funny how some of the stuff not from the comics repeats into the movies that actually released.
@@HemmasStudios_ full circle
@@HemmasStudios_wiud younever be wlling tob di video onn ghost rider 3
After hearing this draft, I’m ok with it never being made
I like to see the topic of the many unproduced sequels to Beetlejuice (1988) particularly Beetlejuice Goes Hawaiian.
I can definitely look into it!
I have 113 unproduced superhero scripts. I once sent it to you in through twitter. Anyway, where did you get this venom synopsis?
Can you send one to me? @coolcomicart 👍
Can't reveal where I got it from, I always protect my sources ;)
@@HemmasStudios_wiud tiunyounevee bwcwlling tondsciys th plans fir ghost rider 3
Is there a way I can find the early draft of this script? I had no idea the story was gonna be this different I thought it would be similar to the 2018 Venom movie. The idea of Eddie realising he fucked up killing people was unexpected too.
I'm kinda sad this never happened the love triangle between Eddie, Venom and Honey is wild! xD
The script, to my knowledge, isn't publicly available, unfortunately. And yes, haha the love triangle is *wild.* I love it!
Raimiverse MJ ruining relationships that aren’t even hers 😂 12:22
😂
This legitimately made me laugh out loud
I don't know what did Jacob Estes smoke to write that script, but it made me appreciate even more Tom Hardy's Venom, even if I dislike it 😂
If I could fix Spider-Man 3 a little, I'll probably have Aaron Eckhart as Eddie Brock Sr as the main villain in Spider-Man 3 and then have Topher Grace as Eddie Brock Jr. in his own spin-off.
That way, the plot can follow Eddie Jr hearing about his father's death in an explosion at a construction site caused by Spider-Man and wants to avenge his father by killing Spider-Man himself.
This sounds pretty nice
I enjoy this idea but no wonder it didn’t get made it definitely woulda been over 3 hours long
It was a really, really long script. Easily the longest script we've ever covered!
But would of been cool to get more in the sam rami universe
I think the biggest thing against this movie is the simple fact that all Spider-Man has to do in this universe is just go on record immediately saying "Hey Eddie Brock is actually Venom, he tried to kill me and my girlfriend, as well as Harry frickin Osborn" lol
Not to mention that Venom did spin webs in Spider-Man 3... like a lot. I don't know why they tried to make it into a big moment.
Also find this (early) iteration of Venom very strange... I kinda like how they keep to it being non-verbal like in the movie, but the symbiote suddenly taking on the characteristics of the Hulk with how it uncontrollably emerges just feels off in this script. Not to mention the exposition just sounds incredibly clunky...
I know it was a rough draft and what not but I am super glad they didn't go with this
If anyone’s wondering how Eddie lived
He didn’t
Pieces of the symbiote would of reconstructed him
I’ve explained this a few times in the comments, but this is a MUCH more clear version. :)
@@HemmasStudios_ yeah it’s interesting….is it Eddie or just the Symbiote that thinks it’s Eddie
Wouldn’t be great if we got SM4 with a better written version of this happening in the background at the exact same time
But at the end of the film Peter hears the news and goes to find Eddie, and hears about the Carnage fight then he’s in the final fight too
I would've ended it with Sunny calling of going to Peter and MJ's home and asking Pete for help with the symbiote to either remove it or to help train them both.
@@kwayneboy1524 interesting…
I would have ended with it being the same bridge that the Goblin fight was on from the first movie.
Peter would find one or a few pumpkin bombs and use the one on Cassidy, knocking him down into the water temporarily so Eddie can explain how he survived and so on
07:06 that's where it came from in Venom the last dance 😒🚌
No matter what the story was, it would be better than the crap we’ve gotten.
You know, I have to be honest. I would love to see this original version which shows the redemption of Eddie and Venom after they survived (somehow?) the blast. By the way, funny thing is that in the original ending of Spider-Man 3, which is only known to those who are real Spidey fans and Lost Media fans, that Venom ate Eddie because of the hate he had towards Peter when Peter stabbed Venom instead of tossing him. Peter is shocked that he almost looses to the symbiote until he uses some metal bars to defeat him without the explosion (added in the in the movie after screening) which leads to the symbiote to basically escape Peter in a liquid body inside the small cracks on the floor. So that original ending would explain how they both survived if they didn't change it after screening. But I would change some things in the movie to make it more awesome.
The canceled movie I would have loved to see is The amazing Spider-Man versus Spider-Man sony was playing a team up movie between Andrew Garfield Spider-Man and Tobey Maguire Spider-Man as a part of their amazing Spider-Man cinematic universe
With the release of Transformers ONE, i would LOVE for you to cover the cancelled 2000s live action Sonys Transformers movie directed by Joseph Kahn, a supposedly dark, edgy and hardcore movie that predates the Michael Bays movies. It would be neat to know the story behind the mivie
Damn, really Wanana see this spinoff , at least the world is never perfect
I wish we knew more about Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick's draft.
Same
You should do a video on the canceled Gambit movie
I'd love to make that video, someday :)
I ship venom and eddie because they are parents of carnage.
This comment had me legitimately laughing out loud
This movie would have been absolutely amazing. Screw marvel for not allowing an r rated movie. No wonder marvel movies are trash now
What… did I just listen to… I’m sorry, what was that?! This is the goofiest R rated movie I’ve ever heard. To whoever wrote this movie’s script… what were you doing back then?