Here is the early Christmas present I have been promising. I didn't mention in the video that the commission generated will offset any charges. So don't forget that. I'll update this article to clarify any points not made in the video: - www.betangel.com/betfair-scrap-premium-charge/
Peter some times I am out the country to a country that I can't bet.Will I lose out if I can't be active for a say a month?Can you answer please.Thanx in advance.
Good news on the face of it but i could never understand why they targeted 20% from the small winners once you had amassed a certain figure no matter how many years you had been using Betfair instead of having a figure that rolled over every year, i just put it down to greed.
Betfair only changed this charge because the were forced to. The Gambling authorities in Sweden and Denmark determined that the current business model is unsustainable. More people were leaving because of these charges and there isn't enough new players to sustain the income and therefore the current business model isn't viable. Betfair were forced to produce a new risk assessment to satisfy these gambling authorities !
Yes I think they have finally recognised the traders have largely vanished, the scene has been dead since 2019 in the UK (or on life support). I'm sure a threat from some of the big Asian markets has been waved at them here, it's certainly not the likes of me who used to make between £10k and £20k from the markets, this will bring me back though.
Betfair exchange has been on it's knees for years. They had to do something. Problem is the trust is gone as they were so greedy when they were a monopoly. If I had the choice between betfair exchange or Smarkets I would choose Smarkets all day.
They are probably trying to avoid users moving to betting brokers to use the clandestine betfair (Orbit X and some others you can access). Another thing is competition stepping up, Polymarket for example, it's a crypto dumbed down / brain rot version of Betfair, during the US presidential elections betting markets, Polymarket had a way bigger turnover than Betfair, by a long shot and that is saying a lot because that specific market in Betfair is colossal. Something else that definitely needs changes is the base commission, I paid 6.5% right away when I first started using betfair, moved to a betting broker and I pay 3%, huge game changer, if my commision was 3% on betfair, I would definitely move back to it. Good to see more competition in this segment of the industry, monopoly never benefits the end user
This is terrible for me. I've been losing with Betfair since they began, the one advantage of this was I could turn it around without ever having to pay the charge. Now, every time I I have a good year, I'm going to be hit like a pro trader anyway.
If you all moved to betdaq liquidity would rise to the levels of betfair & you wouldnt have to pay anything over normal standard charging tus saving you a fortune.
And get banned by Betdaq or Smarkets, both of those are nothing but bookies. Both ceed their own markets so they don't like us taking their money. Smarkets Premium charge is crazy more expensive than even Betfair.
In 2008 when the first PC was charged we created Bet Angel for Betdaq. In 2011 when Betfair upped the PC we did a massive refresh on Bet Angel for Betdaq. Hardly anybody moved over. Nobody prompted the product despite it being completely free. I have shown it's perfectly possible to trade on Betdaq as well, but nobody ever seems to switch.
@@betangeltv Sure, because on Betdaq there aren’t as many markets as on Betfair. I’ve tried it a couple of times, and I was alone on the ladder… it’s very frustrating, to be honest.
Great news! Simplifies things, simpler system. One of the biggest hassles with PC was calculating it, this is simpler and less taxing on lower end. Happy to pay if I win larger amounts. Haven't used BF for over a year now because of PC disputes. Will be making a comeback.
Does this work a little bit like the tax system? So you only get charged on the amount over the limit. So 0% on the first £25k anything over up to £100k is charged at 20% and so on. Because if you profit just £1 over that limit say £25,001 then you'll be charged 20%. Surely you should only pay 20% on anything over upto £100k.
this is the biggest question , you would think it is the latter , if not then it could be manipulated, and some will if not then its a really good system and everyone knows where they stand in that every 1000 extra you make = 800 extra profit , no one wants to get to a point where 25 k = 25k but 25001 =20 k and some change , even if you made an extra 5k then your still worse off than not making any of that 5k , so it has to be payable only on profits over not totals
Unfortunately it looks like it is not based on a tax system. Its a disaster for many punters who may slip into the £25k limit or £100k limit. It will be a farce whereby someone who stays around +24k pays ZERO and +99k 20% . But if you hover around 25-30k gross profit you get clobbered with a full 20% every week of profit. And a 100k winner gets a massive 40% clobbering.
Not sure I understand why this is better? if your life time balance with BF is negative previously you never had to pay premium charges but now if you have a big year you will get whacked with charges? and why is there a premium charge at all a better question might be?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm at 99k for the year at the end of November I'm incentivised not to use the exchange in December as if I tick over 100k I have to pay 40% on my entire winnings (minus commission).
@@MartinGreen932 I'm personally not against it as I earn about 15k per year at this stage so will go from paying PC to not paying it. Looks like there are some things to iron out though.
@MartinGreen932, over 50% of PC payers no longer pay any additional charges and 80% will pay less. So the majority of PC payers are better off. I've seen comments from people who clearly don't pay PC moan about it and I'm sure the samem will happen with the expert fee.
Peter, Recent subscriber here: Have had a very good rummage around your offerings and just wanted to thank you for your intellectual contributions that are always excellently produced and always from a place of altruistic intent with no nefarious agenda. Those very small minority who actively whine and complain, because let's face it you can't please all of the people all of the time, well haters always gonna hate! Keep doing what you're doing for us appreciative viewers 😊 Merry Christmas to you and yours 🌲🎁☃️
Great News Peter.I will now offer more liquidity in USA horse racing and Uk horse racing.Thanx for your efforts Peter.Betting could now be seen as inspirational and more 'Betfarians' could now appear once again on Betfair along with many new accounts.Fingers crossed that the new expert fee works out.
A better Xmas present would be if Betfair scrapped all commission charges[or at least cut them to 1%]. Scrapping the premium charge will only affect the high rollers .... where have I heard that before.
Arbers,value bettors and some regular bettors will now probably leave BF and move to Betdaq. 25k over 52 weeks is not a lot for those ppl. Some already hit 5k and its not even Feb. Some traders arent exactly happy about it either. Imho I think its a good move but 25k limit is way too low. They shouldnt put everyone in the same bag. Trading is not the same as regular betting/arbing etc.
@@betangeltv Generated comm is extremely low and most ppl are probably on 2% so when when you win £1000 bf gets £20...unless there is smth I dont understand.
I dont quite get this. Its a 52 week rolling system. When do betfair decide you are going to be charged and If you hit the charges when are they taken from the account?
the one I can't understand is that it talks about 52 active weeks... so on a new account that perhaps reaches 100 markets in the first week of life, even if one were to earn 25 thousand pounds he would have to wait 52 weeks before incurring the tax?
Good news to be sure, but I wish they did this sooner: my account qualified for the premium charge recently and it ate into a pretty big win just this month.
Better news for traders than system users/Big Punters. System users have always paid much more commission than traders as they paid commission on every single bet which was the way Betfair intended as when it started there were backers and layers and a much smaller number of traders. The premium charge was brought in as traders could trade massive numbers on one market but in effect be only charged a fraction as it is on the profit not the turnover. System users could escape premium charge altogether by having huge turnover on side bets that just 'break even' . Those people will now be paying a charge (and so will just big punters) when they may have not in the past. But overall, if most people will see a benefit, then good news. Agreed that it should never have been introduced to punish loyalty ! EDIT (Just read they will deduct the commission paid each week from the charge, not had time to review how that changes things!)
Good for most but I was turned from 0% PC to 20% overnight with this. All my comms churning for naught., but this at least will motivate me to start building new things again to cover the new charge
@@betangeltv Hope it's the case but I'll await confirmation before getting too excited haha. A 'good problem' to have if I do somehow get charged, so no biggy.
You will only pay it if you are a lifetime winner. On the flip side. If you are a lifetime winner but your strategy is declining, you will no longer have to pay any excess charges.
I think you need to make this video again explaining what you mean by "commission generated offsets fees", and if going to £25.100 means you pay 20% on the full 25.1k or just the 0.1k
I've always told young business people starting out if you have a tax problem then your business model is working, I'm starting out on my BF trading journey I hope one day to be paying 40%
@@GNMbg Found this on twitter the other day: "From February 28, 2025, the UK Gambling Commission (UKGC) is lowering the threshold for financial vulnerability checks from £500 to £150 in a 30-day period. This means a larger number of customers will fall within the scope of these checks, and operators need to adapt to stay compliant."
So how is active weeks worked out, if I use BF during the European football season have the summer off so say 10 months of use is the 11th month August or am I back to 9 months
Only weeks were you bet / trade will count. So in those down periods just do something tiny to keep the account active. A small bet or trade of some sort.
Nice job with the scoop, Peter! A big positive for sure (even if "scrapped" is a bit much hehe) and any bettor in their right mind should hope that this really helps exchange betting. I guess they're finally trying to claw back some lost profits :) My reservation in all this is that I'm still left wondering how far this new rate takes us to a truly FAIR fee (not far enough if corporate greed is anything to go by); for all I know this new structure could still be quite exorbitant. To answer the question we need concrete numbers that can illustrate the rate at which the ecosystem actually needs replenishing, as you put it. Until then, talk of transparency and such is rather cheap IMO. But again, big news no less, many thanks for the rundown Peter and I hope you enjoy a short Christmas break!
With the business model they have now the company is unsustainable , they can change the premium rate all they like but they need customers who are prepared to give such companies all of there sensitive information if they lose £100 per week, and thats not going to happen, Just imagine giving a person on the street all your data bank statements , p60, passport, driving licence etc you would be called a fool, when 50% of business in the uk suffers from cyber security data breaches , in other words you would have a better chance of giving someone in the street all your information and have it kept safe rather than giving it to betfair etc.
Can't believe how many negative comments there are on this thread, think it is a brilliant change, admittedly I am in the perfect position as it will save me a minimum of 40% commission each week.
Hi Peter, thank you for the video. A few thoughts. Firstly, you don't look your normal healthy self. I hope you are ok and if you are feeling rough, I hope you get better soon. Secondly, I can see why Betfair are readjusting their bandings. I think their percentage of winnings are greedy. I will keep my eyes and options open to over platforms.
Thanks for your concern. My wife said the same thing. I changed the lighting and it made me look awful. But it would have taken too long to reshoot the content, so I just went with it. I'll look better in the next video!
Where im from the literal translation would be - being made happy with a dead sparrow.. Nothing will change for me personally eventhough higher liquidity would mean pushing higher stakes through the markets and higher profits..
Since exchanges were born it's become clear that some additional fees are required for higher earners. But this takes a lot of people out of that charging mechanism.
@@betangeltv What is the reason additional fees are required for higher earners while they already take 2% of their winnings? Isn't is all about the total liquidity going around on Betfair exchange, whoever wins doesnt matter for them since they get the ( at least ) 2% commission anyway.
Thank you for this video. If a trading period of 52 consecutive weeks is considered the chargeable period, could a one week break during any 52 week period keep me out of the charging criteria? 😊
Active weeks are weeks were you do something. So a one week break doesn't really change anything. If you want an inactive week to count, just place any sort of bet.
Pity they are not scrapping the PC retrospectively LOL just like the disgraceful way they introduced the PC which impacted any ongoing retrospective bets which also affected your P&L with regards as to whether you exceeded the PC threshold.
Yes, they give some money back to the big traders but now they take it from every small trader that just makes above 25K. Never the less i want to say something... the solution for Betfair on increasing liquitidy is to open somehow the U.S.A. market and every trader must push to that direction.
What is the percentage of people who are currently paying PC. That must have been disgusted at these meetings. Secondly , what percentage of people make ' any profit ' over 52 weeks currently ?
There is usually a reason they do that, the most common is that you have updated contact details and they match somewhere else. That's an automated account closure, which can be reversed. The exchange welcomes winners.
Yes I see the point you make but your account had to hit a threshold including any previous losses over the lifetime of your account. So this new way could be far worse off for losers who then suddenly become profitable within a 12 month period. So the question has still not been answered does the new tariff charges take into account the previous p&L figures over the lifetime of an account or is just a 12 month Rolling period ?@@SoSurreal-f9p
Very unclear as it states GROSS profit >£25k then 20%. Gross is before commission, so techically If you are a break even player after commisions you could make £25 Gross but have paid £25k in commssion. You are at exact break even. You have already paid 100% commission on your Gross profit. Do they now want an EXTRA 20%???? OR are they saying you are already paying more than 20% so we will leave you alone?
@@betangeltv OK so the above example would pay no more up to £100k. The page in Betfair that did show the amount I had paid in commissions is no longer there. It also did show the percentage paid in comms as a whole for the amount won. I was around 36%, so still way over 20% and could still make £100k without the new fee. I hope that old page gets put back up at some time so I know where I am at.
Nope, commission generated offsets the charges. People seem to be missing this and I should have put it in the video. Under PC you could pay 20% when you hit £5k in your lifetime. So it's a massive shift away from that.
Scrapped? Are you kidding me, Peter? I regularly make over 100k per year. Not much more now, actually, after slaving away at 40% in PC. Please correct me if I'm wrong but it won't be the same now, it will be even WORSE! Because of the "implied comission on losses" that has changed to 2,5%. Believe me, I have had better christmas presents!
The change in IC will negative affect those at a higher level. But, personally, I feel is a small price to pay to scrap the charges for those lower down the scale.
@@betangeltv Yeah, it's always a small price when you are not the one paying it. As I see it though, it is blatant discrimination towards the most loyal, the ones who work the hardest and yes, those who earn the most thanks to their efforts and, please think about it, thanks to the money they invest. As if there wasn't enough discrimination before, now the gap will be even greater. I mean, it is normal for those who earn the most to pay more. What is criminal is the brutal jump now created from 100k a year (amount from which the 40% "expert fee", operating expenses and, depending on where you live, also taxes, will have to be deducted). So, please, consider changing the title of your video, which does not reflect reality at all: "Reduction for those who pay the least, while others will be squeezed even more" would be more accurate. Anyway, the message remains the same: winners not welcome!
@@betangeltvif I’m making 25k in a year but having heaps of losing bets as well as winning bets, then I’ve been paying enough commission to not get premium charged. Now, as soon as I hit 25k, I would get whacked 20%. Unless I’m missing something? Also, do you know if it’s different for betfair Australia? Maybe it wouldn’t apply to me anyway.
The Exchange itself is thriving due to the amount of white lists to the Asian bookmakers Betfair is on. However I suspect one of those huge players probably had enough of the 60% charges
Lol because u cant others can. I'm a full time sports bettor and make way more then that, but i do it via an broker so i dont pay premium charges anyway.
This is excellent news, though I would like one point clearing up I think. So. If one earns 26K profit does one then pay 20% on the £1k or on the whole £26k? Great video Peter and thanks for helping this change be made.
That's easy they don't pay me anything. I've never recieved any incentive to represent them, ever. I've been very open about this: - www.betangel.com/how-much-do-i-get-paid-by-betfair/ I have paid THEM an incredible amount of commission and premium charge though. It actually works the other way. I just prefer to be my own man and not be paid to promote for money. That is rare as I often see paid promotions on UA-cam that are not marked as such, as I've been offered money to promote the same services, but have declined.
Here is the early Christmas present I have been promising. I didn't mention in the video that the commission generated will offset any charges. So don't forget that.
I'll update this article to clarify any points not made in the video: -
www.betangel.com/betfair-scrap-premium-charge/
Well done Peter for taking credit for the change ;)
Peter some times I am out the country to a country that I can't bet.Will I lose out if I can't be active for a say a month?Can you answer please.Thanx in advance.
Good news on the face of it but i could never understand why they targeted 20% from the small winners once you had amassed a certain figure no matter how many years you had been using Betfair instead of having a figure that rolled over every year, i just put it down to greed.
Great news Peter! 👍🏻 Got the email from Betfair about the changes, but nice to hear your take on the process behind it.
Happy new year!
Betfair only changed this charge because the were forced to. The Gambling authorities in Sweden and Denmark determined that the current business model is unsustainable. More people were leaving because of these charges and there isn't enough new players to sustain the income and therefore the current business model isn't viable.
Betfair were forced to produce a new risk assessment to satisfy these gambling authorities !
I wonder why they’ve done this? Are they trying to save the exchange? Because it seems to have been in managed decline for a while now.
Yes I think they have finally recognised the traders have largely vanished, the scene has been dead since 2019 in the UK (or on life support). I'm sure a threat from some of the big Asian markets has been waved at them here, it's certainly not the likes of me who used to make between £10k and £20k from the markets, this will bring me back though.
Betfair exchange has been on it's knees for years. They had to do something. Problem is the trust is gone as they were so greedy when they were a monopoly. If I had the choice between betfair exchange or Smarkets I would choose Smarkets all day.
They are probably trying to avoid users moving to betting brokers to use the clandestine betfair (Orbit X and some others you can access). Another thing is competition stepping up, Polymarket for example, it's a crypto dumbed down / brain rot version of Betfair, during the US presidential elections betting markets, Polymarket had a way bigger turnover than Betfair, by a long shot and that is saying a lot because that specific market in Betfair is colossal. Something else that definitely needs changes is the base commission, I paid 6.5% right away when I first started using betfair, moved to a betting broker and I pay 3%, huge game changer, if my commision was 3% on betfair, I would definitely move back to it. Good to see more competition in this segment of the industry, monopoly never benefits the end user
They banned me for no reason a year ago and I had been with them for 8 years. No reason just shut my account down.
Very good point!
Thank you for the early Christmas present Peter and Betfair, have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all involved in getting this done.
Great news Peter! Thank you and Merry Christmas! 🎅
By the looks of it, it's not scrapped. Just a different way of doing it.
PC is scrapped and while it's been replaced with the EF, many people have been lifted out of it's clutches.
very happy with this. nice work, peter!
This is terrible for me.
I've been losing with Betfair since they began, the one advantage of this was I could turn it around without ever having to pay the charge.
Now, every time I I have a good year, I'm going to be hit like a pro trader anyway.
No you wont, if you are not in a lifetime profit you won't have to pay it.
If you all moved to betdaq liquidity would rise to the levels of betfair & you wouldnt have to pay anything over normal standard charging tus saving you a fortune.
And get banned by Betdaq or Smarkets, both of those are nothing but bookies. Both ceed their own markets so they don't like us taking their money. Smarkets Premium charge is crazy more expensive than even Betfair.
In 2008 when the first PC was charged we created Bet Angel for Betdaq. In 2011 when Betfair upped the PC we did a massive refresh on Bet Angel for Betdaq.
Hardly anybody moved over. Nobody prompted the product despite it being completely free.
I have shown it's perfectly possible to trade on Betdaq as well, but nobody ever seems to switch.
@@betangeltv Sure, because on Betdaq there aren’t as many markets as on Betfair. I’ve tried it a couple of times, and I was alone on the ladder… it’s very frustrating, to be honest.
@@betangeltv It's quite possible that if betdaq took over the monopoly, they would eventually make PC too
Great news! Simplifies things, simpler system. One of the biggest hassles with PC was calculating it, this is simpler and less taxing on lower end. Happy to pay if I win larger amounts. Haven't used BF for over a year now because of PC disputes. Will be making a comeback.
Does this work a little bit like the tax system? So you only get charged on the amount over the limit. So 0% on the first £25k anything over up to £100k is charged at 20% and so on. Because if you profit just £1 over that limit say £25,001 then you'll be charged 20%. Surely you should only pay 20% on anything over upto £100k.
this is the biggest question , you would think it is the latter , if not then it could be manipulated, and some will if not then its a really good system and everyone knows where they stand in that every 1000 extra you make = 800 extra profit , no one wants to get to a point where 25 k = 25k but 25001 =20 k and some change , even if you made an extra 5k then your still worse off than not making any of that 5k , so it has to be payable only on profits over not totals
If your account moves/is above £25k on week 52, then you pay 20% on profit made in week 53. No expert charge before that.
That is how I understood it.
I asked this very thing. Hopefully Peter/Betfair will clarify as it's a big point
it would be great if it works like this
Unfortunately it looks like it is not based on a tax system. Its a disaster for many punters who may slip into the £25k limit or £100k limit. It will be a farce whereby someone who stays around +24k pays ZERO and +99k 20% . But if you hover around 25-30k gross profit you get clobbered with a full 20% every week of profit. And a 100k winner gets a massive 40% clobbering.
Not sure I understand why this is better? if your life time balance with BF is negative previously you never had to pay premium charges but now if you have a big year you will get whacked with charges? and why is there a premium charge at all a better question might be?
Lifetime profit would need to be above zero for this charge to apply.
@@betangeltv thx
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm at 99k for the year at the end of November I'm incentivised not to use the exchange in December as if I tick over 100k I have to pay 40% on my entire winnings (minus commission).
Yes. Not heard from anyone who is a premium charge payer who is in favour of this change.
@@MartinGreen932 I'm personally not against it as I earn about 15k per year at this stage so will go from paying PC to not paying it. Looks like there are some things to iron out though.
@MartinGreen932, over 50% of PC payers no longer pay any additional charges and 80% will pay less. So the majority of PC payers are better off. I've seen comments from people who clearly don't pay PC moan about it and I'm sure the samem will happen with the expert fee.
There changing the fee to a new name not scrapping it
Peter,
Recent subscriber here:
Have had a very good rummage around your offerings and just wanted to thank you for your intellectual contributions that are always excellently produced and always from a place of altruistic intent with no nefarious agenda.
Those very small minority who actively whine and complain, because let's face it you can't please all of the people all of the time, well haters always gonna hate!
Keep doing what you're doing for us appreciative viewers 😊
Merry Christmas to you and yours 🌲🎁☃️
Great comment mate totally agree Merry Christmas from Australia!
I truly appreciate your support! It means a lot to know that my efforts are making a positive impact. Wishing you a wonderful holiday season!
Great News Peter.I will now offer more liquidity in USA horse racing and Uk horse racing.Thanx for your efforts Peter.Betting could now be seen as inspirational and more 'Betfarians' could now appear once again on Betfair along with many new accounts.Fingers crossed that the new expert fee works out.
Love it....looking forward seeing more activity on markets
Thanks Peter, Well Done mate 🙂
How many are really paying premium charges on a daily basis when you can just use a friends account and skip that whole thing?
A better Xmas present would be if Betfair scrapped all commission charges[or at least cut them to 1%]. Scrapping the premium charge will only affect the high rollers .... where have I heard that before.
Smaller customers now pay 2% and no additional charges up to £25k a year. High rollers actually pay a little more.
great video pete ,i can see the trading volume going up a bit.
Hope so!
Arbers,value bettors and some regular bettors will now probably leave BF and move to Betdaq.
25k over 52 weeks is not a lot for those ppl. Some already hit 5k and its not even Feb. Some traders arent exactly happy about it either.
Imho I think its a good move but 25k limit is way too low. They shouldnt put everyone in the same bag. Trading is not the same as regular betting/arbing etc.
Anybody betting is very unlikely to pay the charge due to generated commission.
@@betangeltv Generated comm is extremely low and most ppl are probably on 2% so when when you win £1000 bf gets £20...unless there is smth I dont understand.
People often get this completely wrong. I'm planning a follow up video to explain why.
I dont quite get this. Its a 52 week rolling system. When do betfair decide you are going to be charged and If you hit the charges when are they taken from the account?
Thanks for the update Peter.
Maybe when Adam Heathcote get's back to full health again this will tempt him back.
the one I can't understand is that it talks about 52 active weeks... so on a new account that perhaps reaches 100 markets in the first week of life, even if one were to earn 25 thousand pounds he would have to wait 52 weeks before incurring the tax?
I imagine it will be the cumulative value of 52 active weeks.
Good news to be sure, but I wish they did this sooner: my account qualified for the premium charge recently and it ate into a pretty big win just this month.
I think it's an overdue change.
Better news for traders than system users/Big Punters. System users have always paid much more commission than traders as they paid commission on every single bet which was the way Betfair intended as when it started there were backers and layers and a much smaller number of traders. The premium charge was brought in as traders could trade massive numbers on one market but in effect be only charged a fraction as it is on the profit not the turnover. System users could escape premium charge altogether by having huge turnover on side bets that just 'break even' . Those people will now be paying a charge (and so will just big punters) when they may have not in the past. But overall, if most people will see a benefit, then good news. Agreed that it should never have been introduced to punish loyalty ! EDIT (Just read they will deduct the commission paid each week from the charge, not had time to review how that changes things!)
No, they won't necessarily be paying a charge as commission is offset against charges, so it's unlikey.
Good for most but I was turned from 0% PC to 20% overnight with this.
All my comms churning for naught., but this at least will motivate me to start building new things again to cover the new charge
Explain how and I'll check if that's correct.
Based on forum discussions, I don't think you will be paying any EF.
@@betangeltv Hope it's the case but I'll await confirmation before getting too excited haha. A 'good problem' to have if I do somehow get charged, so no biggy.
To make if fairer they should add that you have to be a liftime winner before you move to the expert fees
You will only pay it if you are a lifetime winner. On the flip side. If you are a lifetime winner but your strategy is declining, you will no longer have to pay any excess charges.
So what you cannot deposit more than £100 a month anyway
I think you need to make this video again explaining what you mean by "commission generated offsets fees", and if going to £25.100 means you pay 20% on the full 25.1k or just the 0.1k
I have a follow up video planned
I've always told young business people starting out if you have a tax problem then your business model is working, I'm starting out on my BF trading journey I hope one day to be paying 40%
Christmas has come early for Peter!!!!!
When do they take the Percentage rate off? Is it at the end of the 52 Week Period?.
How does this affect Betfair are they losing out or gaining?
It's a delicate balance, but its a net negative because over 50% of people drop out of the PC mechanism and over 80% pay fewer charges.
Did they say anything about scrapping deposit limits as well? 🎉
lol you wish.
As a matter of fact from March 2025 deposit limit for most of us will be £100 unless you prove you are a head of Sony or Microsoft. :)
@@temp911Luke really? who told you this ?
@@GNMbg Found this on twitter the other day:
"From February 28, 2025, the UK Gambling Commission (UKGC) is lowering the threshold for financial vulnerability checks from £500 to £150 in a 30-day period. This means a larger number of customers will fall within the scope of these checks, and operators need to adapt to stay compliant."
@@temp911Luke That's fine. I have id saying I'm head of Sony. Name: McLovin
I wonder how Betdaq, Matchbook, Smarkets etc will respond to this news?
So how is active weeks worked out, if I use BF during the European football season have the summer off so say 10 months of use is the 11th month August or am I back to 9 months
Only weeks were you bet / trade will count. So in those down periods just do something tiny to keep the account active. A small bet or trade of some sort.
Was betfair not at Steveage as well. They could still be there as well.
A long time ago when they offered telephone support.
Nice content and great news all in all. When is expert fee actually captured by Betfair - is it only at the point when withdrawal is initiated?
It's done a 52 week rolling basis
Maaaaaasssssive news ❤❤❤❤❤❤
Wooo. Bloody. Hoooo! Pity we don’t get a refund! Awesome news.
Nice job with the scoop, Peter!
A big positive for sure (even if "scrapped" is a bit much hehe) and any bettor in their right mind should hope that this really helps exchange betting. I guess they're finally trying to claw back some lost profits :)
My reservation in all this is that I'm still left wondering how far this new rate takes us to a truly FAIR fee (not far enough if corporate greed is anything to go by); for all I know this new structure could still be quite exorbitant. To answer the question we need concrete numbers that can illustrate the rate at which the ecosystem actually needs replenishing, as you put it. Until then, talk of transparency and such is rather cheap IMO. But again, big news no less, many thanks for the rundown Peter and I hope you enjoy a short Christmas break!
I assume this will flow on for Australian customers as well?
Yes
With the business model they have now the company is unsustainable , they can change the premium rate all they like but they need customers who are prepared to give such companies all of there sensitive information if they lose £100 per week, and thats not going to happen, Just imagine giving a person on the street all your data bank statements , p60, passport, driving licence etc you would be called a fool, when 50% of business in the uk suffers from cyber security data breaches , in other words you would have a better chance of giving someone in the street all your information and have it kept safe rather than giving it to betfair etc.
Jimmy you are just jealous because you do not make a living with betfair. Start studying and being profitable without wasting your time
Can't believe how many negative comments there are on this thread, think it is a brilliant change, admittedly I am in the perfect position as it will save me a minimum of 40% commission each week.
Over half existing payers just dropped out of additional charging. It's a massive positive.
Is it April the 1st ?
Hi Peter, thank you for the video. A few thoughts. Firstly, you don't look your normal healthy self. I hope you are ok and if you are feeling rough, I hope you get better soon. Secondly, I can see why Betfair are readjusting their bandings. I think their percentage of winnings are greedy. I will keep my eyes and options open to over platforms.
Thanks for your concern. My wife said the same thing. I changed the lighting and it made me look awful. But it would have taken too long to reshoot the content, so I just went with it.
I'll look better in the next video!
Where im from the literal translation would be - being made happy with a dead sparrow.. Nothing will change for me personally eventhough higher liquidity would mean pushing higher stakes through the markets and higher profits..
Still criminal greedy behaviour
Since exchanges were born it's become clear that some additional fees are required for higher earners. But this takes a lot of people out of that charging mechanism.
@@betangeltv What is the reason additional fees are required for higher earners while they already take 2% of their winnings? Isn't is all about the total liquidity going around on Betfair exchange, whoever wins doesnt matter for them since they get the ( at least ) 2% commission anyway.
@@betangeltv Dont know why UA-cam deleted my comment. But what is the reason for additional fees that are required for higher earners?
I haven't deleted any comments, UA-cam will often mark comments for approval.
Some people win at a prodigous rate, so you need to replace that money back into the system somehow.
Thank you for this video. If a trading period of 52 consecutive weeks is considered the chargeable period, could a one week break during any 52 week period keep me out of the charging criteria? 😊
Active weeks are weeks were you do something. So a one week break doesn't really change anything. If you want an inactive week to count, just place any sort of bet.
Thank you😊😊😊 I read your article by the way. Also, the link to the Betfair info was helpful. @betangeltv
Pity they are not scrapping the PC retrospectively LOL just like the disgraceful way they introduced the PC which impacted any ongoing retrospective bets which also affected your P&L with regards as to whether you exceeded the PC threshold.
Yes, they give some money back to the big traders but now they take it from every small trader that just makes above 25K.
Never the less i want to say something... the solution for Betfair on increasing liquitidy is to open somehow the U.S.A. market and every trader must push to that direction.
Unfortunately that's impossible, the US is a closed shop and Betfair failed to get traction over there.
Can I get my premium charge payments back… 😢
What is the percentage of people who are currently paying PC. That must have been disgusted at these meetings. Secondly , what percentage of people make ' any profit ' over 52 weeks currently ?
Bet some deliberate losses back on another exchange and just pay 2% instead of 20%?
for this 1% MC and 0.5 of this 1% are syndicats
Most greatest news
So it’s encouraging ppl to make multiple accounts in order to stay under 100k
Betfair closed my account. They still haven't given a reason why. They dont care if you win unless betting on their Sportsbook.
There is usually a reason they do that, the most common is that you have updated contact details and they match somewhere else. That's an automated account closure, which can be reversed.
The exchange welcomes winners.
Dumb question but 40% is based on what? Surely it isnt winnings? Surely Betfair wont charge you 40% on 100k i.e. 40k?
100k Profit = 60k Profit and 40k to betfairs pockets.
99k profit = ~79k profit and 20k profit to betfair
Not quite like that
What about if someone has lost a million pounds over the lifetime of their account and then goes on to win 100k in the next 12 month Rolling period?
They'll just have to be happy they're now making a few quid. Too many accounts were hitting 250K and disappearing now they will disappear at 100K
Yes I see the point you make but your account had to hit a threshold including any previous losses over the lifetime of your account. So this new way could be far worse off for losers who then suddenly become profitable within a 12 month period. So the question has still not been answered does the new tariff charges take into account the previous p&L figures over the lifetime of an account or is just a 12 month Rolling period ?@@SoSurreal-f9p
There will be some market manipulation now.
Expert fee avoidance video?
I don't think it's fair am 50k down life time and have started profiting consistency I lose out because of this
You only pay it if you are in profit over your lifetime. So you won't be affected.
Very unclear as it states GROSS profit >£25k then 20%. Gross is before commission, so techically If you are a break even player after commisions you could make £25 Gross but have paid £25k in commssion. You are at exact break even. You have already paid 100% commission on your Gross profit. Do they now want an EXTRA 20%???? OR are they saying you are already paying more than 20% so we will leave you alone?
Commission paid counts towards any charges in the same way it did before.
@@betangeltv OK so the above example would pay no more up to £100k. The page in Betfair that did show the amount I had paid in commissions is no longer there. It also did show the percentage paid in comms as a whole for the amount won. I was around 36%, so still way over 20% and could still make £100k without the new fee. I hope that old page gets put back up at some time so I know where I am at.
Your in the pocket of Betfair. If i win £500 a week over 52 weeks I'll be paying 20% Charges 😢😢
Nope, commission generated offsets the charges. People seem to be missing this and I should have put it in the video. Under PC you could pay 20% when you hit £5k in your lifetime. So it's a massive shift away from that.
On the premium charge graphic it says the rate is 20% if lifetime p&l > £0. Is that number not £10k ?
It's complicated but there was a £1k allowance before it kicked in.
This is worse
How is it worse?
Suddenly a majority of people drop out of additional charges, so it's good overall.
Scrapped? Are you kidding me, Peter? I regularly make over 100k per year. Not much more now, actually, after slaving away at 40% in PC. Please correct me if I'm wrong but it won't be the same now, it will be even WORSE! Because of the "implied comission on losses" that has changed to 2,5%. Believe me, I have had better christmas presents!
The change in IC will negative affect those at a higher level. But, personally, I feel is a small price to pay to scrap the charges for those lower down the scale.
@@betangeltv Yeah, it's always a small price when you are not the one paying it. As I see it though, it is blatant discrimination towards the most loyal, the ones who work the hardest and yes, those who earn the most thanks to their efforts and, please think about it, thanks to the money they invest. As if there wasn't enough discrimination before, now the gap will be even greater. I mean, it is normal for those who earn the most to pay more. What is criminal is the brutal jump now created from 100k a year (amount from which the 40% "expert fee", operating expenses and, depending on where you live, also taxes, will have to be deducted). So, please, consider changing the title of your video, which does not reflect reality at all: "Reduction for those who pay the least, while others will be squeezed even more" would be more accurate. Anyway, the message remains the same: winners not welcome!
So a loosing lifetime player finally finds a new winning system and will have to pay 20%+ even though he a lifetime betfair looser?
SCAM
This is awful. I’m going to go from not paying premium charge to paying it
If you never paid it before you won't pay it now. I'd love to know why you think that?
@@betangeltvif I’m making 25k in a year but having heaps of losing bets as well as winning bets, then I’ve been paying enough commission to not get premium charged.
Now, as soon as I hit 25k, I would get whacked 20%. Unless I’m missing something?
Also, do you know if it’s different for betfair Australia? Maybe it wouldn’t apply to me anyway.
Commission you generate offsets any charges.
@@betangeltvahh, I didn’t catch that part. Thanks for the reply and merry Christmas
@fityz431 I'm in the same boat, don't recall any info regarding commission coming off against charges ? Time to check the forum ig
About to be Happy Birthday Jesus 🎉
The exchange must be in decline for this to happen. Hopefully this leads to a resurgence.
The Exchange itself is thriving due to the amount of white lists to the Asian bookmakers Betfair is on. However I suspect one of those huge players probably had enough of the 60% charges
@@PaulNicolas888I might be wrong but I don't think there were any premium charges for the big fish using Asian brokers.
To all comment readers, you will never pay the new fee, cus you'll never make more than £25k trading sports on betfair.
Want a bet mate? Bet you £1000 and winnings paid to my paypal account.
Lol because u cant others can. I'm a full time sports bettor and make way more then that, but i do it via an broker so i dont pay premium charges anyway.
Imagine having your own betfair account lol
sportsbook is separate
First!
This is excellent news, though I would like one point clearing up I think. So. If one earns 26K profit does one then pay 20% on the £1k or on the whole £26k? Great video Peter and thanks for helping this change be made.
There is a buffer before you have to start paying. They have tried to explain it in their FAQ's
Rachel Reeves should be listening to this. Give people money and they will spend it.👍
lets see
wow big news
Finally 😑😑😑
Are you willing to disclose how much betfair pays/sponsors you?
That's easy they don't pay me anything. I've never recieved any incentive to represent them, ever. I've been very open about this: -
www.betangel.com/how-much-do-i-get-paid-by-betfair/
I have paid THEM an incredible amount of commission and premium charge though. It actually works the other way.
I just prefer to be my own man and not be paid to promote for money. That is rare as I often see paid promotions on UA-cam that are not marked as such, as I've been offered money to promote the same services, but have declined.
Thank you for your transparency!
He's not paid from them but a large part of his income is dependent on BF being alive and popular. Hence talking up the indefensible.
Wow
we can thank white labels for this.
It's better to pay the 40% Expert fee than the previous 60% PC. I haven't crossed that bridge yet but I wouldn't have a problem with it once I do.
What a strange week! From vanguard increasing their charges to Betfair removing their premium charge. WOW!
PS thank you Peter 👍
Whats vanguard?
Only if you've got less than £32K with Vanguard though isn't it?
I don't believe it happened
Nice to see the positivity in this message.
Quite different to Mr Berry, whose take is:
"in reality, it changes nothing really"
...bah humbug 😂
It's funny to see somebody who will clearly benefit from this, who has moaned constantly about PC, moan about the changes.
10 thousand euros is still the maximum bet that can be placed?
There is no limit on how big you place a bet, but depositing that amount may trigger a check of some sort. Either affordability or AML.
Its all very well saying theyve canceled the PR but if you make >£100k they are still taking 40%. Hopefully, this will increase liquidity.
The aim is to make everything more viable at the lower end and that should help everybody.