#TTRPG #DnD #DnD5e #OSR The hobby has tourists. This can be both good and bad. Sign up on the pre-launch page for Macuahuitl! www.kickstarte... All my links in one place! linktr.ee/TheB...
Another good one! I literally just recorded a video where I make the reference that most of these tourists probably don’t even play honestly. They’re just content consumers and chronic opinion spouters.
I compared it to the party in the club, that you kind of had to know someone on the inside to get into. They initially thought I meant gate keeping. I explained, no it's not gate keeping. Unfortunately most of the people never learn about that party, and analogies aside, not enough people run the games. I told him it's pretty cool when someone will at least try to run one of these games. And someday maybe, someone will run one for me, but until then, I'll keep DMing it to try and get as many people in as I can. And maybe some will be tourists that need to catch a flight tomorrow, but maybe a few will stick around and make the group a little larger, and a little stronger.
Good attitude! I think each experience will help you grow, both as a Dungeon Master and as a gamer no matter what game you play. I don't feel that requiring reasonable behavioral expectations is gatekeeping; I feel it simply promotes a good time for all. As for DMing, I think I know how you feel! I am often the Dungeon Master/Game Master/Referee, etc.. While it is the most responsible and time-consuming position in the game, for me, it is also the most-rewarding. May you find good gamers at your table for the years to come!
Your analogy is literally describing gatekeeping. Otherwise anyone could hear the music and walk in. The reality is nobody wants to come to your party because the music sucks and your friends are assholes.
Good comment. Sometimes I miss the times when there was no internet (at least not available for all) , when there was no right or wrong thinking and when we just were playing.
If we are going with a Reconstruction analogy then it would follow that the 5e crowd has a moral obligation to cleanse the earth of the OSR so that it can never rear its ugly, elitist head again. The greatest failure of the union was its unwillingness to liquidate the planter class and reeducate its children.
Awesome job! When I first started in the hobby I visited cabo(5e) for a second only to find how fake it was,I quickly made my way to Tenochtitlan(OSR)!!
Excellent extended metaphor. This shite used to happen on a very limited scale throughout the history of the hobby, but it's gotten more forceful and irritating in the last 10 years or so. I started with BX when it was published and from there, up until very recently, the worst things that happened were the "Satanic Panic" (fun times, hide your books) and the occasional dust-up over which edition/game was superior (the answer is: whatever your table enjoys most). This new crap is really nasty and it seems to be gamers doing it to other gamers for no particularly good reason except the new morality police censoring everything they don't like the look of. It's kinda like the Satanic Panic, but this time the call is coming from inside the house.
They are not gamers but woke cancer. As you wrote "whatever your table enjoys most". That cancer was invited by WotC, Paizo and contemporary White Wolf (World of Darkness games). It was bloody obvious where it is going with an excerpt of 5e rules pdf when it was first released. Just read paragraph Sex. If you don't recall I will gladly remind you: "You can play a male or female character without gaining any special benefits or hindrances. *Think about how your character does or does not conform to the broader culture’s expectations of sex, gender, and sexual behavior. For example, a male drow cleric defies the traditional gender divisions of drow society, which could be a reason for your character to leave that society and come to the surface.* " The White Wolf's documentary World of Darkness is yet another example how to ruin the hobby. I bet you can watch it even for free. Phrases like "Community is welcoming to all kinds of gamers". Guess what? I'm not for inclusion, but exclusion. I exclude each single individual I don't find valuable at my table. Or floor, beach whatever you prefer.
I think I would define Tourists as the bad version who demand things change to their convenience. Whereas a Visitor is someone who is trying the hobby out legitimately and may or may not like it and decide to stay. I welcome Visitors and I am happy to help them learn about something I love.
In light of the recent incident with a certain 5e baby I really do have to complain. People who got into the hobby with 5e a few years ago will act like they know everything and tell everyone else they don't know what they're talking about.
I have to say that I like this format quite a bit, and the background music lends that perfect amount of "chill." You are concise and provide a solid analogy as a throughline.
I think it's an apt analogy, an addendum popped in my head, from my own POV. Some people have only ever seen the Cabo side of D&D. They won't venture into the other areas, and have no reason to, but will make declarative statements about what goes on there, based entirely on hearsay of other tourists who've never been there. And they get to change Cabo and thus the perception of all the new tourists (Critters, Stranger Things entrants, etc) and settlers (analogy for people like TBE and others who eventually migrated to older games) coming in through that route. This can be a disservice to everyone, because blind people lead by blind people don't generally get where they want to go. But some tourist seem hell bent on being tour guides, in spite of being tourists themselves. The indigenous (analogy for me, started with TSR D&D when the company was alive) tend to be wary of potential settlers and hostile to tourists because we can see the bright lights and loud noise of Cabo from way over here in real country. We think it's a silly place and you're generally a silly people. Those in transition from tourist to settler, depending on who they run into, might not like the indigenous population on first encounter because of this. We don't speak your language and frankly don't care if you understand us. So there's more of a chance you're going to aim for a new gated community of like-minded settlers outside of Cabo than actual full submersion into the indigenous culture. Seems to happen a lot, I see a lot of Cabo-lite groups out there. There was a time we were welcoming, but then people like you built Cabo. And we'd generally rather you stayed there, in the bed you made. You have to prove you're different from the other tourists to get our respect, and furthermore you have to step out of your Cabo-lite bubble. And you have to respect our ways in turn. Learn our language. We don't have anything to prove. It's our country. You're just vacationing until you prove otherwise. It is not fair, it's not going to be fair, and the lack of fairness is necessary to weed out the tourists who don't really want to be settlers. Good luck.
All this does is make me glad I never hung my hat on D&D. It allowed me to see different types of games. Rules-light, cinematic, more descriptive than granular, etc. But I always held to the idea there is no one way to play a TTRPG. How it's played is different for every group and person. Some want their games to be more epic and complex in scope, others want a straight up good vs evil story, others still just want to explore new worlds and lands, etc and all are valid.
You got to take a tour first, but then you need too accumulate to the environment. Its like getting into hockey and telling them to play on grass because you don't like ice
Nobody has to do anything. People can play whatever they want, however they want and you can stfu and deal with it. But by all means, cry more about it.
Well put. Squares and rectangles. Cabo is Mexico, but Mexico isn't Cabo. 5E is D&D, but D&D isn't 5E. There's much that's shared and certainly cross pollination, but there are things that fly in Cabo that are out of bounds elsewhere, and vice versa. Me? I just wanna grill, for God's sake.
Speaking as a player of nearly 20 years and frequent GM I am a big fan of “tourists”. Ttrpgs will always be evolving and listening to the changes new players want to see or expect can be often be informative for what might improve the experience for even veteran players. I’d rather the hobby find ways to embrace new blood than gatekeep “correct” play and go back to having to struggle to scrape a play group together. On an tangential note, I want to plug DCC real quick as system I’ve had great success running oneshots for ttrpg neophytes in.
I think my analogy stands still though. It's not about "correct play" either. As I said in the video, some tourists are fine, others are assholes. Each new person to the hobby must be taken on their own merits, qualities, and intentions by others within the hobby. The hobby is open to anyone to try it, but that doesn't mean every person will enjoy the hobby or be a good fit for it.
IT'S RPG. Not ttrpg. RPGs are the real thing, and crpgs are video games. No need to use woke language. Just like there's no need to be welcoming to new blood. WotC was very welcoming to new blood. They stated it explicitly in first free rules for 5e. "You can play a male or female character without gaining any special benefits or hindrances. *Think about how your character does or does not conform to the broader culture’s expectations of sex, gender, and sexual behavior. For example, a male drow cleric defies the traditional gender divisions of drow society, which could be a reason for your character to leave that society and come to the surface.* " I'm against being welcoming to *modern crowd* . I'm all for playing with people I want to play with. Companies will not tell me who should I play with, what should I think, what should I do. Freaking marxist moral police. I'm Polish and I remember communism. That's what you are dealing with when you talk about biggest rpg publishers. A tyrannical wokes who are trying to force you to do what you are told. A cancer of the hobby.
I started paying D&D after the Fat Neil episode of Community. I was always kinda nerdy, but hid just HOW nerdy I was. Since starting I have been nothing but disappointed with 5e's chosen direction. I branched out into CoC, Gumshoe, Free League stuff and even a couple indy games like Wild West Cinema. The sad thing is it's so hard to find a local game that ISN'T 5e. And honestly if I met a 5e stan today, I'd be suspicious of what kind of game I'd be getting into.
CoC is great. I like free league stuff too. Yeah I think 6e will bomb eventually and the hobby will contract a bit. Which is good. It will give indie games a shot again.
Also, many are tourists from the lands of board gaming and LARP. They really want the realm of classic tabletop gaming to be more like where they're from. Perhaps they can be seen as colonizers coming from different regions of the world of gaming.
Tourists? Or working people who have families and can't play because of it? But, had a solid background in ttrpgs with constant face to face games when younger in life. We all have different lives and circumstances. No need to gate keep and use your opinions as a blunt weapon. Agree fully there.
I haven't played with any of these newbies to know how it feels except for once and our group handled that pretty solidly (much to the newbies sorrow). However, I'm not into sorrow. Even if warranted, I don't think I understand what you mean by "cancellation attempts" around 2:50 ? Do you mean to say that someone from outside your game who wants to join your game demands that you play their way? Meaning to "cancel" your way in favor of theirs? If so, I must agree with not giving into them. But I must also disagree with treating these people "poorly." (3:40) Now, before anyone jumps on my case thinking I'm going on the other side of the see-saw here and demanding they be treated like royalty (NOT happening), just know that I think there is enough negativity and strife in the world already without my adding to it. And believe me - I can add to it. My personal happiness means something to me. It's something I work towards. Instead of treating *anybody* poorly, I remain the adult in the conversation (even if I am the only one). Instead of becoming a jerk over people that don't care, I might simply let them kindly know they should find another gaming group - this one isn't a good fit. Take good care and goodbye. They don't have to understand why and they don't have to agree - they just have to leave. Have a good day and good luck to you. I mean that. That's just how I operate. Sure, jerks can deserve to be treated like trash, but I've found that it doesn't get me anywhere. In fact, it tends to bring me down. I only have so much time. So why waste it? If I become a jerk to the jerks, it's a lose-lose situation. But if I remain cordial, firm, and well-meaning, I can be happy with my own behavior. Perhaps some day when the jerks go back to their realm of other jerks, one or two might look back at the situation and think, "I was a jerk to Purr, but Purr wasn't a jerk to me. In fact, Purr respected me." People will always remember how you made them feel. If there must be a disagreement and parting of ways, I'm all for the graceful departure. There are already too many jerks in the world; I can't bring myself to add to their number. Have a good one, thanks for the video, and game on! =)
@@TheBasicExpert Ah! Indeed they are. I had not made the connection between the two. Thank you for taking the time to explain. I like your content; it is good food for the brain. Please keep it up! =)
10 years of the most boring, inconsistent and milquetoast campaigns ive ever experienced, and thats not counting the colossal dissapointment that is the culture around it tbh.
I think we should be polite to tourists no matter how rude they may be. You have to remember that tourists live normally in a very protected bubble. They literally have no concept of a different life outside that bubble. You will not be able to educate them by confronting them on that. All you can do is patiently explained why your life is very different than theirs. They're not smart enough to understand that then you shouldn't waste anymore time on them. Nod, smile, be agreeable and wait for them to get bored and leave. It won't take long.
The problem here is that more often than not this permissible attitude tends to allow some level of influence to subversive "activists" on this side of the hobby
@@nostromo9743 if you engage with these people they're happy to spend countless hours lying about you undermining your influence and distracting you from what you love which is our hobby. The fact this video got made is proof of exactly what I'm talking about, instead of telling us about his new Aztec game or other items that have content about our hobby, TBE has to spend time highlighting the fact that these morons are out there attacking us. They win just by forcing us to have the argument, so my feeling is just ignore them out of existence. Without an ongoing controversy, they will fade away and move on to more interesting targets.
@@Tedpikel I don't know I think in this case these are short attention span low intelligence knee jerk trolls. If they poke at us a couple of times and we don't respond they'll move on, bored.
Another good one! I literally just recorded a video where I make the reference that most of these tourists probably don’t even play honestly.
They’re just content consumers and chronic opinion spouters.
i have been saying..tourists...for a long, long, time...thank you...thank you...
I compared it to the party in the club, that you kind of had to know someone on the inside to get into. They initially thought I meant gate keeping. I explained, no it's not gate keeping. Unfortunately most of the people never learn about that party, and analogies aside, not enough people run the games. I told him it's pretty cool when someone will at least try to run one of these games. And someday maybe, someone will run one for me, but until then, I'll keep DMing it to try and get as many people in as I can. And maybe some will be tourists that need to catch a flight tomorrow, but maybe a few will stick around and make the group a little larger, and a little stronger.
Good attitude! I think each experience will help you grow, both as a Dungeon Master and as a gamer no matter what game you play.
I don't feel that requiring reasonable behavioral expectations is gatekeeping; I feel it simply promotes a good time for all. As for DMing, I think I know how you feel! I am often the Dungeon Master/Game Master/Referee, etc.. While it is the most responsible and time-consuming position in the game, for me, it is also the most-rewarding. May you find good gamers at your table for the years to come!
Your analogy is literally describing gatekeeping. Otherwise anyone could hear the music and walk in.
The reality is nobody wants to come to your party because the music sucks and your friends are assholes.
Good comment. Sometimes I miss the times when there was no internet (at least not available for all) , when there was no right or wrong thinking and when we just were playing.
spot on-why i keep coming back since i discovered your content
tourist is too neutral of a term. Carpet baggers would be better. ie- a person perceived as an unscrupulous opportunist.
Some are that while others are just tourists I think.
Most are tourists, some are carpet baggers
If we are going with a Reconstruction analogy then it would follow that the 5e crowd has a moral obligation to cleanse the earth of the OSR so that it can never rear its ugly, elitist head again. The greatest failure of the union was its unwillingness to liquidate the planter class and reeducate its children.
Awesome job! When I first started in the hobby I visited cabo(5e) for a second only to find how fake it was,I quickly made my way to Tenochtitlan(OSR)!!
Excellent extended metaphor.
This shite used to happen on a very limited scale throughout the history of the hobby, but it's gotten more forceful and irritating in the last 10 years or so. I started with BX when it was published and from there, up until very recently, the worst things that happened were the "Satanic Panic" (fun times, hide your books) and the occasional dust-up over which edition/game was superior (the answer is: whatever your table enjoys most).
This new crap is really nasty and it seems to be gamers doing it to other gamers for no particularly good reason except the new morality police censoring everything they don't like the look of. It's kinda like the Satanic Panic, but this time the call is coming from inside the house.
They are not gamers but woke cancer. As you wrote "whatever your table enjoys most". That cancer was invited by WotC, Paizo and contemporary White Wolf (World of Darkness games). It was bloody obvious where it is going with an excerpt of 5e rules pdf when it was first released. Just read paragraph Sex. If you don't recall I will gladly remind you:
"You can play a male or female character without gaining any special benefits or hindrances. *Think about how your character does or does not conform to the broader culture’s expectations of sex, gender, and sexual behavior. For example, a male drow cleric defies the traditional gender divisions of drow society, which could be a reason for your character to leave that society and come to the surface.* "
The White Wolf's documentary World of Darkness is yet another example how to ruin the hobby. I bet you can watch it even for free. Phrases like "Community is welcoming to all kinds of gamers". Guess what? I'm not for inclusion, but exclusion. I exclude each single individual I don't find valuable at my table. Or floor, beach whatever you prefer.
Nice take Basic Expert. Well done.
I think I would define Tourists as the bad version who demand things change to their convenience. Whereas a Visitor is someone who is trying the hobby out legitimately and may or may not like it and decide to stay. I welcome Visitors and I am happy to help them learn about something I love.
That's a fair quibble on the term.
Great video Jon! Well made and spot on.
In light of the recent incident with a certain 5e baby I really do have to complain. People who got into the hobby with 5e a few years ago will act like they know everything and tell everyone else they don't know what they're talking about.
What are you referring to? I must've missed this.
@@JODamaramu
Same, I count my blessing for sticking everything but 5E but I haven't heard anything in particular.
I have to say that I like this format quite a bit, and the background music lends that perfect amount of "chill." You are concise and provide a solid analogy as a throughline.
I think it's an apt analogy, an addendum popped in my head, from my own POV.
Some people have only ever seen the Cabo side of D&D. They won't venture into the other areas, and have no reason to, but will make declarative statements about what goes on there, based entirely on hearsay of other tourists who've never been there. And they get to change Cabo and thus the perception of all the new tourists (Critters, Stranger Things entrants, etc) and settlers (analogy for people like TBE and others who eventually migrated to older games) coming in through that route. This can be a disservice to everyone, because blind people lead by blind people don't generally get where they want to go. But some tourist seem hell bent on being tour guides, in spite of being tourists themselves.
The indigenous (analogy for me, started with TSR D&D when the company was alive) tend to be wary of potential settlers and hostile to tourists because we can see the bright lights and loud noise of Cabo from way over here in real country. We think it's a silly place and you're generally a silly people. Those in transition from tourist to settler, depending on who they run into, might not like the indigenous population on first encounter because of this. We don't speak your language and frankly don't care if you understand us. So there's more of a chance you're going to aim for a new gated community of like-minded settlers outside of Cabo than actual full submersion into the indigenous culture. Seems to happen a lot, I see a lot of Cabo-lite groups out there.
There was a time we were welcoming, but then people like you built Cabo. And we'd generally rather you stayed there, in the bed you made. You have to prove you're different from the other tourists to get our respect, and furthermore you have to step out of your Cabo-lite bubble. And you have to respect our ways in turn. Learn our language. We don't have anything to prove. It's our country. You're just vacationing until you prove otherwise.
It is not fair, it's not going to be fair, and the lack of fairness is necessary to weed out the tourists who don't really want to be settlers. Good luck.
Love the analogy. There's a fine line between tourism and colonization.
Oh my god...cry more, snowflake.
Very interesting points and analogy.
It reminded of "Midnight in Paris."
Best wishes,
V
All this does is make me glad I never hung my hat on D&D. It allowed me to see different types of games. Rules-light, cinematic, more descriptive than granular, etc.
But I always held to the idea there is no one way to play a TTRPG. How it's played is different for every group and person. Some want their games to be more epic and complex in scope, others want a straight up good vs evil story, others still just want to explore new worlds and lands, etc and all are valid.
You got to take a tour first, but then you need too accumulate to the environment.
Its like getting into hockey and telling them to play on grass because you don't like ice
Nobody has to do anything. People can play whatever they want, however they want and you can stfu and deal with it. But by all means, cry more about it.
spot on
GURPS is like Sinaloa.
Tell us that we're living wrong and you might get shanked.
great video as always!
Well put. Squares and rectangles. Cabo is Mexico, but Mexico isn't Cabo. 5E is D&D, but D&D isn't 5E. There's much that's shared and certainly cross pollination, but there are things that fly in Cabo that are out of bounds elsewhere, and vice versa.
Me? I just wanna grill, for God's sake.
Same! Grill and game!
Speaking as a player of nearly 20 years and frequent GM I am a big fan of “tourists”. Ttrpgs will always be evolving and listening to the changes new players want to see or expect can be often be informative for what might improve the experience for even veteran players.
I’d rather the hobby find ways to embrace new blood than gatekeep “correct” play and go back to having to struggle to scrape a play group together.
On an tangential note, I want to plug DCC real quick as system I’ve had great success running oneshots for ttrpg neophytes in.
I think my analogy stands still though. It's not about "correct play" either. As I said in the video, some tourists are fine, others are assholes. Each new person to the hobby must be taken on their own merits, qualities, and intentions by others within the hobby.
The hobby is open to anyone to try it, but that doesn't mean every person will enjoy the hobby or be a good fit for it.
IT'S RPG. Not ttrpg. RPGs are the real thing, and crpgs are video games. No need to use woke language. Just like there's no need to be welcoming to new blood. WotC was very welcoming to new blood. They stated it explicitly in first free rules for 5e.
"You can play a male or female character without gaining any special benefits or hindrances. *Think about how your character does or does not conform to the broader culture’s expectations of sex, gender, and sexual behavior. For example, a male drow cleric defies the traditional gender divisions of drow society, which could be a reason for your character to leave that society and come to the surface.* "
I'm against being welcoming to *modern crowd* . I'm all for playing with people I want to play with. Companies will not tell me who should I play with, what should I think, what should I do. Freaking marxist moral police. I'm Polish and I remember communism. That's what you are dealing with when you talk about biggest rpg publishers. A tyrannical wokes who are trying to force you to do what you are told. A cancer of the hobby.
@@hadeseye2297 calling it ttrpg isn't woke.
You need to be gatekept harder
I started paying D&D after the Fat Neil episode of Community. I was always kinda nerdy, but hid just HOW nerdy I was. Since starting I have been nothing but disappointed with 5e's chosen direction. I branched out into CoC, Gumshoe, Free League stuff and even a couple indy games like Wild West Cinema. The sad thing is it's so hard to find a local game that ISN'T 5e. And honestly if I met a 5e stan today, I'd be suspicious of what kind of game I'd be getting into.
CoC is great. I like free league stuff too. Yeah I think 6e will bomb eventually and the hobby will contract a bit. Which is good. It will give indie games a shot again.
@@TheBasicExpert one can only hope
Fun analogy
The thing about Tourists is that Very few of them know the actual good places.
Also, many are tourists from the lands of board gaming and LARP. They really want the realm of classic tabletop gaming to be more like where they're from. Perhaps they can be seen as colonizers coming from different regions of the world of gaming.
Tourists? Or working people who have families and can't play because of it? But, had a solid background in ttrpgs with constant face to face games when younger in life. We all have different lives and circumstances. No need to gate keep and use your opinions as a blunt weapon. Agree fully there.
Wow dude! How very apt!
100% on target.
I haven't played with any of these newbies to know how it feels except for once and our group handled that pretty solidly (much to the newbies sorrow). However, I'm not into sorrow. Even if warranted, I don't think I understand what you mean by "cancellation attempts" around 2:50 ? Do you mean to say that someone from outside your game who wants to join your game demands that you play their way? Meaning to "cancel" your way in favor of theirs?
If so, I must agree with not giving into them. But I must also disagree with treating these people "poorly." (3:40) Now, before anyone jumps on my case thinking I'm going on the other side of the see-saw here and demanding they be treated like royalty (NOT happening), just know that I think there is enough negativity and strife in the world already without my adding to it. And believe me - I can add to it.
My personal happiness means something to me. It's something I work towards.
Instead of treating *anybody* poorly, I remain the adult in the conversation (even if I am the only one). Instead of becoming a jerk over people that don't care, I might simply let them kindly know they should find another gaming group - this one isn't a good fit. Take good care and goodbye. They don't have to understand why and they don't have to agree - they just have to leave. Have a good day and good luck to you. I mean that. That's just how I operate.
Sure, jerks can deserve to be treated like trash, but I've found that it doesn't get me anywhere. In fact, it tends to bring me down. I only have so much time. So why waste it? If I become a jerk to the jerks, it's a lose-lose situation. But if I remain cordial, firm, and well-meaning, I can be happy with my own behavior.
Perhaps some day when the jerks go back to their realm of other jerks, one or two might look back at the situation and think, "I was a jerk to Purr, but Purr wasn't a jerk to me. In fact, Purr respected me." People will always remember how you made them feel.
If there must be a disagreement and parting of ways, I'm all for the graceful departure. There are already too many jerks in the world; I can't bring myself to add to their number. Have a good one, thanks for the video, and game on! =)
The cancelation remark was in regards to Indestructoboy trying to cancel legion of myth, grimjim, and a few others. They are having a spat right now.
@@TheBasicExpert Ah! Indeed they are. I had not made the connection between the two.
Thank you for taking the time to explain. I like your content; it is good food for the brain. Please keep it up! =)
@@PurrsPlace will do. I'll keep trying to do my best.
5E has been around almost 10 years now.
And? 2020 is when there was a big influx of people.
10 years of the most boring, inconsistent and milquetoast campaigns ive ever experienced, and thats not counting the colossal dissapointment that is the culture around it tbh.
I think we should be polite to tourists no matter how rude they may be. You have to remember that tourists live normally in a very protected bubble. They literally have no concept of a different life outside that bubble. You will not be able to educate them by confronting them on that. All you can do is patiently explained why your life is very different than theirs. They're not smart enough to understand that then you shouldn't waste anymore time on them. Nod, smile, be agreeable and wait for them to get bored and leave. It won't take long.
I disagree obviously. Hehe.
The problem here is that more often than not this permissible attitude tends to allow some level of influence to subversive "activists" on this side of the hobby
@@nostromo9743 if you engage with these people they're happy to spend countless hours lying about you undermining your influence and distracting you from what you love which is our hobby. The fact this video got made is proof of exactly what I'm talking about, instead of telling us about his new Aztec game or other items that have content about our hobby, TBE has to spend time highlighting the fact that these morons are out there attacking us. They win just by forcing us to have the argument, so my feeling is just ignore them out of existence. Without an ongoing controversy, they will fade away and move on to more interesting targets.
Ignoring the problem will not make it go away. Gatekeeping works.
@@Tedpikel I don't know I think in this case these are short attention span low intelligence knee jerk trolls. If they poke at us a couple of times and we don't respond they'll move on, bored.
Nice analogy.