It’s kinda why I like the Red Tide setting from Scarlet Heroes and originally a setting for labyrinth lord. Yes it’s a fantasy rpg but I like the more East Asian setting because it’s different. I know some people don’t like it and I’ve heard it called “problematic” but I think it is really interesting and a nice change. I also like more realistic historical settings without magic. But these are rare.
Dnd and its semi medieval gonzo european mashup of every folk story they could find, plopped on top of tolkein are just too iconic. It does a huge amount of heavy lifting in terms of expectations and genre to tell your friends "lets play dnd". "its like skyrim but you can do anything you want" is such an easy thing to say, and it is so engrained in gamer culture, it takes a serious momentum shift to get brand new people and grognards to want to change... Keep doing other stuff, i hope they catch on more and more !
One thing I've come to appreciate is how well Gygax (and other early D&d designers) mapped-out people for the purpose of roleplaying. STR / DEX / CON / INT / WIS / CHA and *ALL* of the variations (ex: Might instead of STR, etc) of that base concept really do display how well that design works for interpreting a "person" into referenceable game terms.
I think you're right that there's not a lot of improvement that could be made over what is already available for FRP systems. I would sure love to see your creativity channeled into Old School-compatible modules, however! I think that is the area where innovators can really make a unique, quality product, and the synergy from its compatibility with Old School systems makes an interested audience/market ready from the start.
TBE needs to make a full go at creating a B2 toppler. Not because its likely to unseat that nostalgia revered (no shade) behemoth, but because going into it with that goal should result in a very solid outcome.
TBH I still love Basic Fantasy - not enough for some - but enough to scratch a classic itch for me - I realize you've moved on to your own/other games and they are awesome - but I still return to it over WOTC's offering - and for that I'll always be eternally grateful. And the TSR stuff will always be my TTRPG 'origin story'. Gygax/Arneson/Holmes/Cook Mentzer etc really did good - I feel for you when you say you have nothing more to 'say' through a European Medieval inspired/Tolkienesque TTRPG generic 'game'. Best wishes for the future - whatever that maybe.
BFRPG is a great game for people interested in old school to transfer too. Ascending AC. No Race as Class. But it feels like BX still. You can't beat the price point either.
@@TheBasicExpert Do you think the persist general success of the d20 design system primarily comes from nostalgia, association with the name "Dungeons & Dragons", reverence conditioning within the hobby or do you see the general design as being so solid that it creates the continuous support & elevation momentum that we see ?
@@insertnamehere8121 personally I don't see old editions of D&D like BX, OD&D, and AD&D as d20 systems. The d20 is one of many different resolution die used in those older games. I think moving everything onto a d20 is something that happened during 3rd edition. So I guess the short answer is that I find old school D&D to be perfectly fine and very good for fantasy adventure games.
Same, I really want to start an Aztecs vs conquistadors BROSR-lite campaign and that will be perfect for people that play on the new world side of things
Thanks for your honesty. I made a sci-fi rpg with my son (free on Big Geek Emporium) just to prove we could do it. But I just couldn't see doing the same with the "medieval europe, but magic!" Genre. What hasn't been done? How much balance work would we have to do, when he has schoolwork and I have a 40+ hr work week? And what are the odds of ever making a dime? Even with the massive number of RPGs out there from BX clones to Shadowdark, I haven't quite found tbe perfect one yet. And if I do, can I get my table to try something new? Houseruling an existing product is easiest for most. Glad to see you doing what you do. Got my eye on the Aztec book.
Just downloaded Macuahuitl. Loving it. the classes, the Eagle Warrior and Pochteca in particular are very interesting in that they don't really map to existing D&D classes. I noticed that the Nahualli Shape-shifting power apparently needs some detail. How often can it be used? And aside from the Ghost Woman, what are the stats of the various animal forms? Anyway, awesome material and I can't wait for the full version. Really intrigued by the possibilities. A dungeon crawl in Teotihuacan would be a must.
Thank you. I kind of wanted to leave some holes in certain parts as whitebox itself has holes. Feels like tradition. But I think you are right and more guidance needs to be there on the Nahualli. Thank you so much for the feedback.
Macuahitl is interesting. I have nothing on my shelf scratching this itch I didn’t know I had. Generic fantasy is pretty much a fully milked cow for me. I have my BX clones and I just don’t need another one.
Our group's been trying out games with completely different dice rules, Cyberpunk 2020, Symbaroum, Open D6, GURPS, etc. It's amazing how a difference in rules will change the way the setting feels. And once you wrap your head around how a ttrpg works, it's always way easier to learn another system. I always found it weird to see a lot of the OSR insist that people are unwilling or unable to do anything outside BX.
I admit that I'm kinda sad because I really wanted to see your take on fantasy gaming, but I get it. The games you've made have been really interesting, and it makes me happy that they've gotten traction
Retro-clones are fine and still serve a purpose, but we probably have enough of them. Now that we have the systems ready and available to us, there needs to be content to support these rules; things like new settings, modules, supplements and monster books (hopefully with good game design behind them all as well).
Make what you want, that's the whole point of the hobby. In general, if someone really likes your systems and wants to apply them to another setting they can figure it out, especially if it is pretty adjacent to existing systems.
Ive got enough clone or clone-adjacent books. There's even enough clones/modules, i think. Campaign settings i think is where there's a gap in the market.
Another thing that gets missed among the OSR clones is content compatibility. Releasing products that are compatible to the older editions are in a gray area, as TSR has shown with it's willingness to sue. If you know the edition the clone is tied too, OSE is B/X, you can then release products compatible with that edition without stepping on WotC's toes. Keeping with the previous example, here is my campaign setting with it's own unique rules and classes for OSE. Oh, that means if I have B/X or the BE of BECMI I can use those with that setting.
The dozen different varieties of D&D and D&D-likes really just does nothing but cause market confusion for OSR newbies like myself from two years ago. At the very least if you're gonna release your own version of old school D&D, give its default setting a very unique flavor like ACKS and LotFP did instead of trying to be yet another universal system
I'm 244 pages into a retro-clone of the pre-OD&D playtest rules and looking more backwards to its antecedents instead of what came later. Hopefully not a heart breaker. It does have some interesting paths not taken after the mid-70s. My original timeline was to wrap this month, but it's looking more like Halloween. I hear what you're saying though. Originally, I just reformatted some stuff so a small group could playtest it without dealing with the horribly poor organization of the playtest material. Then I got bit by the retroclone bug. Not sure I agree with what DH Boggs and others have done with this material in their own spin on it. Anyway, looking forward to this Aztec game. I've got Cowpunchers now. Pretty neat.
To me RPGs need a theme dominating the setting to draw interest now, what people aren't still clinging to their precious "Can't we just play D&D?" have found their replacement in OSE and one or two other famous systems and I don't think that'll change or allow wiggle room for new systems until they collapse or go full bluehair. Working on my own system on and off and it's heavily inspired by pre-bronze (before 3500BC) histories/tales/beliefs.
Dice rules are not what needs changing for the most part. Who cares if you roll 1d20 or 2d10 to resolve something, the point is you roll to resolve something. What is needed is finding a better balance between the superior B/X chassi and the 5e character options. Clearly 5e offers way too many options that is causes headaches all over the place. However, I do think that simple player options could really help the B/X game, like what AD&D2e tried to do with kits. I think 5e doesn't have the magic, and while B/X does, it's not perfect and it could be incrementally improved on in small measured careful amounts. I think people should stop thinking of trying to make huge sweeping changes. We have the best Chassi in B/X already, great, lets take the best from other things and see if they can make an even better car ten what TSR and crew did.
I think there's always something new to try & new modes of play to explore but for a creator, the real question is what do you want out of it other than just to say you did?
Such incredible incite, your saying things others wont or don't say! unless people produce their own setting / machines provide something unique and fresh, there is no point in producing them!
I feel like writing a hack of D&D is a rite of passage for every DM. Once you start tinkering the with the setting or rules, it becomes inevitable. Doesn't mean you should post it online or try to sell it. If D&D is good enough to run your game, use it. If it isn't, then design a new game to solve those problems instead of just rewriting b/x again. House rules, campaign settings, and modules are far more useful.
D20 isn't TSR's/D&D patented thing. 1st edition of Kult also uses d20. Neuroshima - Polish post-apocalyptic game - used 3d20 rolls. If WotC tired to approach me about d20 dice rolls I would simply say "Fk off!" It's like wiping out every single game that uses d6. R'ly?
What makes a TTRPG great? The rules. Those of us with enough grey hair an loss of sanity points being a GM know you can take a great setting an crappy rules an just take the setting with a little elbow grease to good rules. Can you take Pendragon 2nd ed setting an hang it around the shoulders of Palladium Fantasy or a OSR version? Who is stopping you?
Honestly understandable. It’s too well trod ground. I think we need different types of games anyway. If you were going to make a game I think different kinds of Science Fiction are a good idea.
It’s kinda why I like the Red Tide setting from Scarlet Heroes and originally a setting for labyrinth lord. Yes it’s a fantasy rpg but I like the more East Asian setting because it’s different. I know some people don’t like it and I’ve heard it called “problematic” but I think it is really interesting and a nice change.
I also like more realistic historical settings without magic. But these are rare.
The scarlet heroes setting is pretty dang cool.
Dnd and its semi medieval gonzo european mashup of every folk story they could find, plopped on top of tolkein are just too iconic. It does a huge amount of heavy lifting in terms of expectations and genre to tell your friends "lets play dnd". "its like skyrim but you can do anything you want" is such an easy thing to say, and it is so engrained in gamer culture, it takes a serious momentum shift to get brand new people and grognards to want to change... Keep doing other stuff, i hope they catch on more and more !
One thing I've come to appreciate is how well Gygax (and other early D&d designers) mapped-out people for the purpose of roleplaying. STR / DEX / CON / INT / WIS / CHA and *ALL* of the variations (ex: Might instead of STR, etc) of that base concept really do display how well that design works for interpreting a "person" into referenceable game terms.
I think you're right that there's not a lot of improvement that could be made over what is already available for FRP systems. I would sure love to see your creativity channeled into Old School-compatible modules, however! I think that is the area where innovators can really make a unique, quality product, and the synergy from its compatibility with Old School systems makes an interested audience/market ready from the start.
TBE needs to make a full go at creating a B2 toppler. Not because its likely to unseat that nostalgia revered (no shade) behemoth, but because going into it with that goal should result in a very solid outcome.
TBH I still love Basic Fantasy - not enough for some - but enough to scratch a classic itch for me - I realize you've moved on to your own/other games and they are awesome - but I still return to it over WOTC's offering - and for that I'll always be eternally grateful. And the TSR stuff will always be my TTRPG 'origin story'. Gygax/Arneson/Holmes/Cook Mentzer etc really did good - I feel for you when you say you have nothing more to 'say' through a European Medieval inspired/Tolkienesque TTRPG generic 'game'. Best wishes for the future - whatever that maybe.
BFRPG is a great game for people interested in old school to transfer too. Ascending AC. No Race as Class. But it feels like BX still. You can't beat the price point either.
Agreed. No need to reinvent the wheel.
Because hundreds already exist. I enjoy making systems/house-rules, but for my own usage.
Yeah and some have already done a better job with the genre than I ever could.
Wow. There's a DM_Curtis? Glad to meet you!
@@dm_curt 🤪
@@TheBasicExpert
Do you think the persist general success of the d20 design system primarily comes from nostalgia, association with the name "Dungeons & Dragons", reverence conditioning within the hobby or do you see the general design as being so solid that it creates the continuous support & elevation momentum that we see ?
@@insertnamehere8121 personally I don't see old editions of D&D like BX, OD&D, and AD&D as d20 systems. The d20 is one of many different resolution die used in those older games.
I think moving everything onto a d20 is something that happened during 3rd edition. So I guess the short answer is that I find old school D&D to be perfectly fine and very good for fantasy adventure games.
You can count on my money for Macahuitl dude, love me a mesoamerican setting.
Same, I really want to start an Aztecs vs conquistadors BROSR-lite campaign and that will be perfect for people that play on the new world side of things
If I ever get to run this, I'm totally doing Aztecs v. Inca with a side of Teotihuacan dungeon crawl
Thanks for your honesty. I made a sci-fi rpg with my son (free on Big Geek Emporium) just to prove we could do it.
But I just couldn't see doing the same with the "medieval europe, but magic!" Genre. What hasn't been done? How much balance work would we have to do, when he has schoolwork and I have a 40+ hr work week? And what are the odds of ever making a dime? Even with the massive number of RPGs out there from BX clones to Shadowdark, I haven't quite found tbe perfect one yet. And if I do, can I get my table to try something new?
Houseruling an existing product is easiest for most.
Glad to see you doing what you do. Got my eye on the Aztec book.
Just downloaded Macuahuitl. Loving it. the classes, the Eagle Warrior and Pochteca in particular are very interesting in that they don't really map to existing D&D classes.
I noticed that the Nahualli Shape-shifting power apparently needs some detail. How often can it be used? And aside from the Ghost Woman, what are the stats of the various animal forms?
Anyway, awesome material and I can't wait for the full version. Really intrigued by the possibilities. A dungeon crawl in Teotihuacan would be a must.
Thank you. I kind of wanted to leave some holes in certain parts as whitebox itself has holes. Feels like tradition. But I think you are right and more guidance needs to be there on the Nahualli. Thank you so much for the feedback.
Macuahitl is interesting. I have nothing on my shelf scratching this itch I didn’t know I had. Generic fantasy is pretty much a fully milked cow for me. I have my BX clones and I just don’t need another one.
Our group's been trying out games with completely different dice rules, Cyberpunk 2020, Symbaroum, Open D6, GURPS, etc.
It's amazing how a difference in rules will change the way the setting feels. And once you wrap your head around how a ttrpg works, it's always way easier to learn another system. I always found it weird to see a lot of the OSR insist that people are unwilling or unable to do anything outside BX.
I admit that I'm kinda sad because I really wanted to see your take on fantasy gaming, but I get it. The games you've made have been really interesting, and it makes me happy that they've gotten traction
Thank you. I just want to be proud of what I make. Maybe I'll return to it. I'm not going to delete it. I just feel frustrated and stuck with it.
Retro-clones are fine and still serve a purpose, but we probably have enough of them. Now that we have the systems ready and available to us, there needs to be content to support these rules; things like new settings, modules, supplements and monster books (hopefully with good game design behind them all as well).
Make what you want, that's the whole point of the hobby. In general, if someone really likes your systems and wants to apply them to another setting they can figure it out, especially if it is pretty adjacent to existing systems.
Ive got enough clone or clone-adjacent books. There's even enough clones/modules, i think. Campaign settings i think is where there's a gap in the market.
Another thing that gets missed among the OSR clones is content compatibility. Releasing products that are compatible to the older editions are in a gray area, as TSR has shown with it's willingness to sue. If you know the edition the clone is tied too, OSE is B/X, you can then release products compatible with that edition without stepping on WotC's toes. Keeping with the previous example, here is my campaign setting with it's own unique rules and classes for OSE. Oh, that means if I have B/X or the BE of BECMI I can use those with that setting.
Loving the new video format and editing, it looks and sounds great.
yeah i just dont trust any company at all, so im just making my own so i can make adventures in peace
Yeah I generally find that anything I want to do in a generic fantasy game, BECMI can handle.
Dungeon Minister, I've been wanting to talk to you on my stream. You are welcome on. Just let me know.
@@TheBasicExpert I'd be happy to come on! You stream on Mondays, yes? That's my day off so it works nicely.
We dont need any more clones. We need modules, campaigns, and world supplements. Good video
The dozen different varieties of D&D and D&D-likes really just does nothing but cause market confusion for OSR newbies like myself from two years ago.
At the very least if you're gonna release your own version of old school D&D, give its default setting a very unique flavor like ACKS and LotFP did instead of trying to be yet another universal system
I'm 244 pages into a retro-clone of the pre-OD&D playtest rules and looking more backwards to its antecedents instead of what came later. Hopefully not a heart breaker. It does have some interesting paths not taken after the mid-70s. My original timeline was to wrap this month, but it's looking more like Halloween. I hear what you're saying though. Originally, I just reformatted some stuff so a small group could playtest it without dealing with the horribly poor organization of the playtest material. Then I got bit by the retroclone bug. Not sure I agree with what DH Boggs and others have done with this material in their own spin on it. Anyway, looking forward to this Aztec game. I've got Cowpunchers now. Pretty neat.
To me RPGs need a theme dominating the setting to draw interest now, what people aren't still clinging to their precious "Can't we just play D&D?" have found their replacement in OSE and one or two other famous systems and I don't think that'll change or allow wiggle room for new systems until they collapse or go full bluehair.
Working on my own system on and off and it's heavily inspired by pre-bronze (before 3500BC) histories/tales/beliefs.
Settings are important. That is the unique angle to take. My aztec game is just whitebox but the setting and work put into it is what draws people.
Dice rules are not what needs changing for the most part. Who cares if you roll 1d20 or 2d10 to resolve something, the point is you roll to resolve something.
What is needed is finding a better balance between the superior B/X chassi and the 5e character options. Clearly 5e offers way too many options that is causes headaches all over the place. However, I do think that simple player options could really help the B/X game, like what AD&D2e tried to do with kits.
I think 5e doesn't have the magic, and while B/X does, it's not perfect and it could be incrementally improved on in small measured careful amounts. I think people should stop thinking of trying to make huge sweeping changes. We have the best Chassi in B/X already, great, lets take the best from other things and see if they can make an even better car ten what TSR and crew did.
I think there's always something new to try & new modes of play to explore but for a creator, the real question is what do you want out of it other than just to say you did?
Far Away Land is one of those that, at least for me, manages to rise above the constraints of the format and do something truly weird and novel.
Looks like TBE is a ShadowDork! 😜
I actually don't own the game. Mad respect for Kelsey and Arcane Library, but it just doesn't appeal to me, especially when I have bx or AD&D.
@@TheBasicExpert I wasn't referring specifically to Shadowdark, just being silly!
He is dead to me now!
@@doodlesquatch277 😂
The viewings will be in the basement!
Such incredible incite, your saying things others wont or don't say! unless people produce their own setting / machines provide something unique and fresh, there is no point in producing them!
I feel like writing a hack of D&D is a rite of passage for every DM. Once you start tinkering the with the setting or rules, it becomes inevitable. Doesn't mean you should post it online or try to sell it. If D&D is good enough to run your game, use it. If it isn't, then design a new game to solve those problems instead of just rewriting b/x again.
House rules, campaign settings, and modules are far more useful.
I'm up for a fantasy dice pool game.
3:01 the warnings weren't added until later.
I forgot they were not always there
D20 isn't TSR's/D&D patented thing. 1st edition of Kult also uses d20. Neuroshima - Polish post-apocalyptic game - used 3d20 rolls. If WotC tired to approach me about d20 dice rolls I would simply say "Fk off!" It's like wiping out every single game that uses d6. R'ly?
What makes a TTRPG great? The rules.
Those of us with enough grey hair an loss of sanity points being a GM know you can take a great setting an crappy rules an just take the setting with a little elbow grease to good rules.
Can you take Pendragon 2nd ed setting an hang it around the shoulders of Palladium Fantasy or a OSR version? Who is stopping you?
I just use Mongoose Traveller 2nd Edition for fantasy games.
Honestly understandable. It’s too well trod ground. I think we need different types of games anyway. If you were going to make a game I think different kinds of Science Fiction are a good idea.
Whats the name of your Kickstarter RPG? I ask because I dont know how to spell it
It's called Macuahuitl.
@@TheBasicExpert
Cool. I'm a fan of S&W Whitebox, so this interests me
@@darkknightofhibernia4815 I'm working on a free quickstart rules document. Shouldn't take long to complete. So keep an eye out for that.
@@TheBasicExpert
Sweet man. Thanks
Dude nice format, but you need to get the mic out of frame.
If I do, the settings I have to have to make it sound OK won't work. I need a new mic. I hate the yeti.
Theirs a million generic fantasy RPGs, youre better off going for something niche and supplemental.
Why clone B/X for the 1000th time when you could...you know, make a game that is actually good?